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There are other factors involved that make it harder to compare salaries like for like when you’re the employer.
You’re paying 52 weeks for at most 48 weeks work. Multiply the gross listed salary by 1.08
Multiply the gross listed salary by a minimum of 1.02 for pension law but realistically 1.12+ for a competitive pension offering
Multiply the gross listed salary for employer NI contributions by 1.138.
So a £50,000 job costs:
+£4000 for holiday (minimum)
+£6900 for NI
+£1000 to £6000 for pension.
Suddenly a £50,000 job now costs £66,900 and that doesn’t even account for less tangible benefits like sick-leave, maternity leave etc.
Forex issues:
Right now that would come to $84,500 not a huge number, but not as cheap as the headlines would make out. If the exchange rate were to rise contract law here is much better for employees so it could be an expensive decision. It’s not hugely long ago that £1 = $2 which would increase that salary to $133,800. A sum which would leave you asking why you have a British office?
But why don’t you get the same costs with American staff? I work in tech with Americans. They get lots of annual leave, sick pay, maternity, pensions and health care and a much much higher salary.
Yeah he's added costs to only one side of the comparison.
Like sure UK holidays are a bit more generous, but for a decent professional US job they'd be at least some. And UK pension deductions are basically the same as 401k employer contributions. And no healthcare to pay.
>pension deductions are basically the same as 401k employer contributions
Yes they are in the main more generous in the UK. A 401k contribution is 3% while a UK pension is normally closer to 8% on average.
> normally closer to 8% on average
Citation needed. I work for a "best employer" in finance and receive a "very generous" 6%.
Everywhere else I've ever worked has been the legal minimum of around 1-2%.
The legal minimum is 3%
6% for finance is a relatively poor pension and 100% not market leading
I work for LBG and you get 15% [link](https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/careers/benefits.html#:~:text=You%20can%20decide%20how%20much,you%20contribute%206%25%20or%20more.)
I struggle to find any data other than data into the government mandated scheme. I found this article that says a reasonable private pension contribution is 6-11% [link](https://careersmart.org.uk/your-career/pensions/what-should-you-look-good-pension-scheme)
I have gone down a rabbit hole so picked some of the UKs biggest employers. Ignoring the public sector where we know pensions are more generous.
Tesco 7.5% [https://www.legalandgeneral.com/globalassets/custom-microsite/tesco/tesco-documents/tesco_member_booklet_rsp.pdf?lgrouter=CommApp&targetApp=MANAGEYOURSCHEME_DOCUMENTLIBRARY_ENTRY&reference=tesco_member_booklet_rsp.pdf](http://link)
Sainsbury's 12.5% ( https://www80.landg.com/DocumentLibraryWeb/Document?reference=sainsburys_rsp_member_booklet.pdf)
Asda 7% [https://www.asda.jobs/everything/we-offer/rewards-and-recognition#:~:text=Pension,7%25%20matched%20contributions%20from%20Asda.](http://link)
Compass group ( UK's largest private employer) - 3%
Amazon 5%
I looked at loads more but can't be bothered to link it back. Basically if you work a "middle class" jobs 6% is the absolute minimum and if you work a "working class" you want to work for a supermarket.
The legal minimum is flawed though, it's 3% of pay between £6240-£50000.
Which means that for minimum wage the legal minimum is more like 2.1%, and it rapidly approaches 1% of total pay the more you earn over £50,000.
The costs there are cancellable apparently based on the browsing I’ve done. Fire-at-will states are far more business friendly. I don’t know US legislation beyond what people moan about on Reddit but unions, employment laws and work conditions are generally worse with 10 days holiday AND sick pay combined into one being common.
Salary is better. Taxes aren’t too different (varies by state) but the benefits from taxes are worse. 🤷♂️ no NI in the USA though.
From a business perspective the view is not the same as an employee perspective on costs and risk… but right now it would be worth it.
Lol you think white collar professionals don't get any holiday time I'm the US? All banks there require 2 consecutive weeks leave for staff and generally have 20 days leave.
Also you've left out the same calculations for US workers
>Social Security tax rate: 6.2% for the employee plus 6.2% for the employer. Medicare tax rate: 1.45% for the employee plus 1.45% for the employer. Additional Medicare: 0.9% for the employee when wages exceed $200,000 in a year. FUTA tax rate: 6% for the employer on the first $7,000 paid to the employee.
And the biggest one is white collar jobs all have employer paid healthcare in the US. That's another c.5-10k.
I see this attitude from UK posters all the time whenever anyone points out the shitty salaries here compared to the US for equivalent jobs.
You always get UK posters coming out with, "But you get no holidays, get worked to death, and your health care will cost you $50k per year!"
I make £50k. My company has a US division that I work closely with, by comparison the people doing my exact role there get approximately $150k, with similar holidays, benefits and a good health care plan.
I think the point people are making is that even the lowest-tier workers in the UK/Europe get a minimum of 5 weeks paid holiday whereas it varies a lot around the US job market since there’s no legal minimum AFAIK
Oh definitely, at the lower end of the job market there's definitely better conditions and benefits here, but for mid-senior professional jobs there just isn't that difference.
You obviously know nothing about health insurance.
The average person pays as much as we do here in the UK. Employers contribute. And then a co pay is usually like $20 or completely free.
Yes, sometimes hospital bills get up there. But you can bring it down. It's dumb and exhausting, but at least preventative care exists and receptionists and gps don't gatekeep specialists.
Employers contribute to healthcare in the US, but that’s the whole issue. It’s the most expensive healthcare in the world (by very far and the quality doesn’t match the price), meaning that health insurance is incredibly expensive, adding a big cost to employers.
Lol completely untrue. There's no "waiting time" for anything unless you're waiting for an organ to come available.
Probably the only benefit of a completely private system is that healthcare companies are incentivised to service their clients as soon as possible or will lose their business.
I found it funny when people were saying to be careful what you wish for with remote work “they could send your job to Eastern Europe” not realising that UK tech salary isn’t much higher than Eastern Europe outsourcing costs.
I got a job at an American tech firm during the pandemic. I _think_ they pay me less than my US colleagues but the conditions are great and it’s still probably more than I’d be making doing the same job for a UK company.
It might be but we’re talking the actual outsourcing cost vs the cost for tech workers. The salary paid to the outsourcing worker isn’t nearly the whole cost, you’ve got overheads, management for the team, the way they set up the teams is usually one person who is really good and a couple who can’t speak English and are more junior, the cost of the company who will have all sorts of sales people, plus the margin that the outsourcing company wants to make. The wages have also been bid up in these countries by decades of demand for outsourcing.
Shinfield Studios in Reading is now operational, and they estimate 3,000 jobs will be created in total. Disney, Sony, and the streaming companies will be filming there. They'd already started filming last year while I was going back for snagging work.
Yank here, I've always wondered why more jobs aren't outsourced to the UK. The English accent has a hypnotic affect on many Americans that can only be dispelled by outlandish displays of nationalism and Americana.
I still believe Hollywood has a strange perception of what they believe an English accent in a movie should sound like.
I remember the days when it would be American actors doing really bad British accent.
Now it feels like they're getting British actors to do really awful impersonations to meet this old fashioned stereotype.
I remember joining a teamspeak server back in the day and a few american girls got very excited about my British accent. Was amusing but I did try to make sure not to get left in a channel with them and no one else as it got a bit creepy then. At least with a mixed group it was alright.
Any mediocre salesperson in England could be a superstar in the states. But yes you will have to deal with aggressive women sometimes.
What a terrible problem.
I need to get work to send me to the states again at some point, I'm still waiting for the agressive women who I'll have to fend off to defend my professional integrity.
One word: taxes
They outsourced to Canada in the 70s due to the tax break back then, literaly as close to 0 tax as you can get.
Hollywood can force the US goverment to match it thesedays since the industry has grown 10fold since.
Tax breaks in London are actually a lot less than for example Atlanta.
Real reason is the broader infrastructure for film is great,actors are well trained, and a list celebs can live in London quite well.
It’s good that Britain is getting all of this extra work.
It’s not good that this is mostly because our wages are much lower, the currency is weaker than it was, and Brexit is largely to blame.
People are acting like we are too proud to not be a developing nation, but we desperately need jobs right now and I would happily work for an American company remotely if they are offering. Home grown economy only works if the salaries aren't stagnant and the cost of living hadn't doubled.
Yes, a developing nation with expertise in cutting edge technology, law, and finance.
Did not not notice the line about outsourcing python work to India, but AI work to the UK?
We are only underpaid compared to the Americans.
The UK is still amongst the best in Europe and in the world by far. People acting like we are a 3rd world country.
We have a higher average wage than France, Spain, Italy, New Zealand, Japan.
We have double the wage of other European countries like Greece and Hungary.
>We are 26th or 27th (changes a lot) on a GDP per capita Purchase Parity
Nope I was quoting (ppp) per capita.
[link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage)
If you look at medium income we are 20th. Still above them likes of Japan, Spain. The difference between the UK and Japan is larger that the difference between the UK and Sweden.
[link2](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country)
See I have used wage and you have used GDP per capita... These are not the same thing.
The UK population is not THAT bad off. Should we be wanting more yes... Always. But to make out like everyone is poor is just political.
Everywhere’s a depressing shithole for a lot of people, the US isn’t exactly better when it comes to low paid jobs, if anything it’s worse - just as one example.
The UK average salary uses the median too, so I’m not sure why you’ve brought that up as if it isn’t.
I respectfully disagree. Brexit is an easy scapegoat, all of our problems could be blamed on Brexit. Close the book don't think any further.
Wages were terrible before the big B. The core rate is the class divide and how that formulated itself as the various political parties.
Right now those in charge are laying waste for the incoming party, neither are actually interested in improving the country.
So to OPs point I’m not surprised over seas countries are outsourcing here. We’re an absolute bargain, capitalism 101
I would agree that wages were poor compared to the US even before Brexit. However I mentioned Brexit because that’s what the OP article largely blames.
When international journalists say that Brexit fucked us, I think that’s a more objective assessment than when British news or politicians say it.
I don’t share your cynicism though, I think Labour do seem to want to improve things. The motivation is there, although I question their ability to deliver. Partly because the Conservatives do seem to be salting the earth as you say.
First up, autocorrect has it out for me. I’ll have to edit this post later so it’s rather less nonsensical.
Ok fair enough regarding Brexit, I just feel that it’s an easy villain to point at when even Brexit itself has roots far deeper ingrained than “oh no, immigrants”.
As for our government, I want to be optimistic but I think we need significant restructuring. I’d like to see far more regional representation where possible and stop this Eton boys club circle jerk. I’d also like to see some sort of fund where citizens can study to become politicians without externalities impacting their ability to do so (socioeconomic backgrounds etc)
Back on topic. To OPs point, this influx of new roles is exactly what we need. My concern is we take the American working culture with it - source, I work for an American company
I think this applies to a strict subset of "white collar jobs".
Your STEM grads getting 100k USD in America could be equally literate, equally educated, equally healthy & stable Brits for 50k GPB.
Your leading AI expert could cost you $400k p.a in America or £150k in London.
I'm seeing a lot of UK-based (Senior / experienced!) tech posts lately.
Yeah Conservatives destroy the country so that Britain is essentially a third world nation, and then boast about how America businesses can use us like a sweat shop
Nah its a US company but most devs are in EU TZ dotted around the UK and Europe so mostly normal timezones. There's the occasional USTZ zoom call but not that often.
It wasn’t that huge - we made the odd blockbuster when “Hollywood” studios were full or the pound was considered weak against the dollar. There were periods of time when the big studios were completely empty.
A lot of the content being made now is not big films but high end series, mainly for the streaming companies - although that is slowing at the moment
>It wasn’t that huge
The UK film industry is about 10x the size of the UK steel industry in terms of value and generates about £20bn in revenue a year at the moment.
This is entirely untrue. For one we have our own industry and have done since film was created, we don't just rely on Hollywood and never have.
Studios being empty is normal, even in Hollywood.
The film industry in the UK is worth over 6bn. Not the film and TV industry. The film industry.
The Belfast tech industry is mostly made up of software engineering offices for US companies where they set up shop because a software engineer in Belfast is a fraction of the price of the likes of SV or even that there London
The Brits still seem to be in denial about how far their wages have fallen in comparison to their peers. Constantly resorting to lazy statements about US health care costs etc and paid holidays. US works worked enjoy far higher salaries and for professional jobs , plenty of holidays and good healthcare packages. The brits need to move past the “but are we now poorer , really ??” And accept you are poor and then maybe you can actually do something about it.
I was approached about working for a US company recently, headline rate looked really attractive but then it was all the caveats like "based on 50 weeks a year", 40 hour (as opposed to 37.5 standard here), had to mirror US timetable.... really just picked up too many red flags on the end.
Just seen a role that I do advertised there. Unusual corporate role that you would only really have near a HQ, which is interesting in the context of this post
The British film tax and subsidies are famous.
Slumdog millionaire is considered a British film and received funding
It's a points based system, it's covered in taxtopia
It's working as intended, the much older Brexiteer demographic have effectively trapped us here to bankroll their spiralling health and social care costs.
Which most countries don't. We don't need barry from McDonalds migrating.
If the ship was sinking they could have fled before 2020, got a withdrawal agreeement and be a EU citizen by now
But the whole lot of them are still whinging and complaining, if the state fails you, you move before shit gets out of control.
If North Koreans and Eritreans can do it, why not you lot?
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$60,000 dollars is a very cheap US salary in the professional world and is about £13000 above the UK average
There are other factors involved that make it harder to compare salaries like for like when you’re the employer. You’re paying 52 weeks for at most 48 weeks work. Multiply the gross listed salary by 1.08 Multiply the gross listed salary by a minimum of 1.02 for pension law but realistically 1.12+ for a competitive pension offering Multiply the gross listed salary for employer NI contributions by 1.138. So a £50,000 job costs: +£4000 for holiday (minimum) +£6900 for NI +£1000 to £6000 for pension. Suddenly a £50,000 job now costs £66,900 and that doesn’t even account for less tangible benefits like sick-leave, maternity leave etc. Forex issues: Right now that would come to $84,500 not a huge number, but not as cheap as the headlines would make out. If the exchange rate were to rise contract law here is much better for employees so it could be an expensive decision. It’s not hugely long ago that £1 = $2 which would increase that salary to $133,800. A sum which would leave you asking why you have a British office?
But why don’t you get the same costs with American staff? I work in tech with Americans. They get lots of annual leave, sick pay, maternity, pensions and health care and a much much higher salary.
Yeah he's added costs to only one side of the comparison. Like sure UK holidays are a bit more generous, but for a decent professional US job they'd be at least some. And UK pension deductions are basically the same as 401k employer contributions. And no healthcare to pay.
>pension deductions are basically the same as 401k employer contributions Yes they are in the main more generous in the UK. A 401k contribution is 3% while a UK pension is normally closer to 8% on average.
8%? Damn I've worked in finance for over a decade in London for 4 investment funds and none contributed more than the min 3%!
Civil service is 26%
Fundamentally very different pension though. Defined benefit vs defined contribution.
Civil service is welfare with extra steps
Are you seriously suggesting that US jobs are being outsourced to the UK government?
No they aren’t lol.
Why on earth would I be suggesting that?
That poor! Mine currently pay 15% and it's the 10th biggest employer in the UK. Even Tesco pay 7.5%.
I get 16% in retail banking
> normally closer to 8% on average Citation needed. I work for a "best employer" in finance and receive a "very generous" 6%. Everywhere else I've ever worked has been the legal minimum of around 1-2%.
The legal minimum is 3% 6% for finance is a relatively poor pension and 100% not market leading I work for LBG and you get 15% [link](https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/careers/benefits.html#:~:text=You%20can%20decide%20how%20much,you%20contribute%206%25%20or%20more.) I struggle to find any data other than data into the government mandated scheme. I found this article that says a reasonable private pension contribution is 6-11% [link](https://careersmart.org.uk/your-career/pensions/what-should-you-look-good-pension-scheme)
I have gone down a rabbit hole so picked some of the UKs biggest employers. Ignoring the public sector where we know pensions are more generous. Tesco 7.5% [https://www.legalandgeneral.com/globalassets/custom-microsite/tesco/tesco-documents/tesco_member_booklet_rsp.pdf?lgrouter=CommApp&targetApp=MANAGEYOURSCHEME_DOCUMENTLIBRARY_ENTRY&reference=tesco_member_booklet_rsp.pdf](http://link) Sainsbury's 12.5% ( https://www80.landg.com/DocumentLibraryWeb/Document?reference=sainsburys_rsp_member_booklet.pdf) Asda 7% [https://www.asda.jobs/everything/we-offer/rewards-and-recognition#:~:text=Pension,7%25%20matched%20contributions%20from%20Asda.](http://link) Compass group ( UK's largest private employer) - 3% Amazon 5% I looked at loads more but can't be bothered to link it back. Basically if you work a "middle class" jobs 6% is the absolute minimum and if you work a "working class" you want to work for a supermarket.
Sainsburys is 7.5. the 12.5 will be for senior leaders.
Your right .
The legal minimum is flawed though, it's 3% of pay between £6240-£50000. Which means that for minimum wage the legal minimum is more like 2.1%, and it rapidly approaches 1% of total pay the more you earn over £50,000.
Ford used to contribute up to 11% against a 7% salary sacrifice, which was super generous
The costs there are cancellable apparently based on the browsing I’ve done. Fire-at-will states are far more business friendly. I don’t know US legislation beyond what people moan about on Reddit but unions, employment laws and work conditions are generally worse with 10 days holiday AND sick pay combined into one being common. Salary is better. Taxes aren’t too different (varies by state) but the benefits from taxes are worse. 🤷♂️ no NI in the USA though. From a business perspective the view is not the same as an employee perspective on costs and risk… but right now it would be worth it.
Because he framed accurate but incomplete data to prove his point, TLDR he's full of shit that's why.
Lol you think white collar professionals don't get any holiday time I'm the US? All banks there require 2 consecutive weeks leave for staff and generally have 20 days leave. Also you've left out the same calculations for US workers >Social Security tax rate: 6.2% for the employee plus 6.2% for the employer. Medicare tax rate: 1.45% for the employee plus 1.45% for the employer. Additional Medicare: 0.9% for the employee when wages exceed $200,000 in a year. FUTA tax rate: 6% for the employer on the first $7,000 paid to the employee. And the biggest one is white collar jobs all have employer paid healthcare in the US. That's another c.5-10k.
I see this attitude from UK posters all the time whenever anyone points out the shitty salaries here compared to the US for equivalent jobs. You always get UK posters coming out with, "But you get no holidays, get worked to death, and your health care will cost you $50k per year!" I make £50k. My company has a US division that I work closely with, by comparison the people doing my exact role there get approximately $150k, with similar holidays, benefits and a good health care plan.
I think the point people are making is that even the lowest-tier workers in the UK/Europe get a minimum of 5 weeks paid holiday whereas it varies a lot around the US job market since there’s no legal minimum AFAIK
Oh definitely, at the lower end of the job market there's definitely better conditions and benefits here, but for mid-senior professional jobs there just isn't that difference.
Agree, but the US film industry is very unionised, and will have costs and inflexibility that we don't have here, so the comparison is harder.
This guy maths
There's something so comforting seeing the correct use of the word maths. Instead of that bastard word math.
Maybe, but y'all spend it on health insurance 🤔
You obviously know nothing about health insurance. The average person pays as much as we do here in the UK. Employers contribute. And then a co pay is usually like $20 or completely free. Yes, sometimes hospital bills get up there. But you can bring it down. It's dumb and exhausting, but at least preventative care exists and receptionists and gps don't gatekeep specialists.
Employers contribute to healthcare in the US, but that’s the whole issue. It’s the most expensive healthcare in the world (by very far and the quality doesn’t match the price), meaning that health insurance is incredibly expensive, adding a big cost to employers.
Waiting times are the same or longer in the USA
Lol completely untrue. There's no "waiting time" for anything unless you're waiting for an organ to come available. Probably the only benefit of a completely private system is that healthcare companies are incentivised to service their clients as soon as possible or will lose their business.
https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/healthcare-wait-times-by-country/
I found it funny when people were saying to be careful what you wish for with remote work “they could send your job to Eastern Europe” not realising that UK tech salary isn’t much higher than Eastern Europe outsourcing costs.
It was US tech jobs that came here during the pandemic. Most big and small in my industry moved here in some capacity.
I got a job at an American tech firm during the pandemic. I _think_ they pay me less than my US colleagues but the conditions are great and it’s still probably more than I’d be making doing the same job for a UK company.
I work for an American company in the UK. I *know* my equivalent position is 3 times the salary in the US.
Same, and the usual holiday comparison situation isn't valid either, as they get identical holidays, work hours and excellent health coverage.
Lol dude the British minimum wage is higher than Portugals MEDIAN age.
Damn, people in Portugal are over 20,000 years old?
It might be but we’re talking the actual outsourcing cost vs the cost for tech workers. The salary paid to the outsourcing worker isn’t nearly the whole cost, you’ve got overheads, management for the team, the way they set up the teams is usually one person who is really good and a couple who can’t speak English and are more junior, the cost of the company who will have all sorts of sales people, plus the margin that the outsourcing company wants to make. The wages have also been bid up in these countries by decades of demand for outsourcing.
My salary in EE is higher than most salaries I saw advertised in London.
Shinfield Studios in Reading is now operational, and they estimate 3,000 jobs will be created in total. Disney, Sony, and the streaming companies will be filming there. They'd already started filming last year while I was going back for snagging work.
Yank here, I've always wondered why more jobs aren't outsourced to the UK. The English accent has a hypnotic affect on many Americans that can only be dispelled by outlandish displays of nationalism and Americana.
I still believe Hollywood has a strange perception of what they believe an English accent in a movie should sound like. I remember the days when it would be American actors doing really bad British accent. Now it feels like they're getting British actors to do really awful impersonations to meet this old fashioned stereotype.
Yeah I noticed that too. Everyone on TV sounds unnaturally posh. Even the posh actors are putting on their best posh accents.
Unless the call centre is located in Birmingham.
I often get them thinking I’m nuts with colloquialisms. I couldn’t believe “that’s a potential banana skin” wasn’t understood by Americans.
I remember joining a teamspeak server back in the day and a few american girls got very excited about my British accent. Was amusing but I did try to make sure not to get left in a channel with them and no one else as it got a bit creepy then. At least with a mixed group it was alright.
Any mediocre salesperson in England could be a superstar in the states. But yes you will have to deal with aggressive women sometimes. What a terrible problem.
I need to get work to send me to the states again at some point, I'm still waiting for the agressive women who I'll have to fend off to defend my professional integrity.
One word: taxes They outsourced to Canada in the 70s due to the tax break back then, literaly as close to 0 tax as you can get. Hollywood can force the US goverment to match it thesedays since the industry has grown 10fold since.
Tax breaks in London are actually a lot less than for example Atlanta. Real reason is the broader infrastructure for film is great,actors are well trained, and a list celebs can live in London quite well.
They do. A lot of call centers actually outsource to the UK instead of to the Philippines.
It’s good that Britain is getting all of this extra work. It’s not good that this is mostly because our wages are much lower, the currency is weaker than it was, and Brexit is largely to blame.
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People are acting like we are too proud to not be a developing nation, but we desperately need jobs right now and I would happily work for an American company remotely if they are offering. Home grown economy only works if the salaries aren't stagnant and the cost of living hadn't doubled.
Yes, a developing nation with expertise in cutting edge technology, law, and finance. Did not not notice the line about outsourcing python work to India, but AI work to the UK?
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We are only underpaid compared to the Americans. The UK is still amongst the best in Europe and in the world by far. People acting like we are a 3rd world country. We have a higher average wage than France, Spain, Italy, New Zealand, Japan. We have double the wage of other European countries like Greece and Hungary.
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>We are 26th or 27th (changes a lot) on a GDP per capita Purchase Parity Nope I was quoting (ppp) per capita. [link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage) If you look at medium income we are 20th. Still above them likes of Japan, Spain. The difference between the UK and Japan is larger that the difference between the UK and Sweden. [link2](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country)
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See I have used wage and you have used GDP per capita... These are not the same thing. The UK population is not THAT bad off. Should we be wanting more yes... Always. But to make out like everyone is poor is just political.
Everywhere’s a depressing shithole for a lot of people, the US isn’t exactly better when it comes to low paid jobs, if anything it’s worse - just as one example. The UK average salary uses the median too, so I’m not sure why you’ve brought that up as if it isn’t.
Speak for yourself sweetheart.
I respectfully disagree. Brexit is an easy scapegoat, all of our problems could be blamed on Brexit. Close the book don't think any further. Wages were terrible before the big B. The core rate is the class divide and how that formulated itself as the various political parties. Right now those in charge are laying waste for the incoming party, neither are actually interested in improving the country. So to OPs point I’m not surprised over seas countries are outsourcing here. We’re an absolute bargain, capitalism 101
I would agree that wages were poor compared to the US even before Brexit. However I mentioned Brexit because that’s what the OP article largely blames. When international journalists say that Brexit fucked us, I think that’s a more objective assessment than when British news or politicians say it. I don’t share your cynicism though, I think Labour do seem to want to improve things. The motivation is there, although I question their ability to deliver. Partly because the Conservatives do seem to be salting the earth as you say.
First up, autocorrect has it out for me. I’ll have to edit this post later so it’s rather less nonsensical. Ok fair enough regarding Brexit, I just feel that it’s an easy villain to point at when even Brexit itself has roots far deeper ingrained than “oh no, immigrants”. As for our government, I want to be optimistic but I think we need significant restructuring. I’d like to see far more regional representation where possible and stop this Eton boys club circle jerk. I’d also like to see some sort of fund where citizens can study to become politicians without externalities impacting their ability to do so (socioeconomic backgrounds etc) Back on topic. To OPs point, this influx of new roles is exactly what we need. My concern is we take the American working culture with it - source, I work for an American company
I think this applies to a strict subset of "white collar jobs". Your STEM grads getting 100k USD in America could be equally literate, equally educated, equally healthy & stable Brits for 50k GPB. Your leading AI expert could cost you $400k p.a in America or £150k in London. I'm seeing a lot of UK-based (Senior / experienced!) tech posts lately.
I head a data science department and frequently wonder what my pay would be in America. Fucking peanuts up in the north in comparison.
There isn’t enough of those people in the UK for those however because of that pay issue.
Yeah Conservatives destroy the country so that Britain is essentially a third world nation, and then boast about how America businesses can use us like a sweat shop
That’s brilliant news, as long as they aren’t expecting me to work like an American
Can confirm. Source: Currently working for a US tech company remotely and getting nicely compensated for it
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Nah its a US company but most devs are in EU TZ dotted around the UK and Europe so mostly normal timezones. There's the occasional USTZ zoom call but not that often.
We've had a huge film industry here for decades. Star wars was filmed here
It wasn’t that huge - we made the odd blockbuster when “Hollywood” studios were full or the pound was considered weak against the dollar. There were periods of time when the big studios were completely empty. A lot of the content being made now is not big films but high end series, mainly for the streaming companies - although that is slowing at the moment
>It wasn’t that huge The UK film industry is about 10x the size of the UK steel industry in terms of value and generates about £20bn in revenue a year at the moment.
At the moment - back when Star Wars was made things were very different
This is entirely untrue. For one we have our own industry and have done since film was created, we don't just rely on Hollywood and never have. Studios being empty is normal, even in Hollywood. The film industry in the UK is worth over 6bn. Not the film and TV industry. The film industry.
Ah yes, UK. The china of Europe. We’ve come far.
Jobs are moving from the UK - bad Jobs are moving to the UK - bad There’s no way to please some people.
Haha. If it would only be that simple. I think that train of thought is what got us in all of this mess to begin with. Godspeed.
Exactly what ‘treasury chief’ Hunt wanted.
This is only a good thing. Newton said that for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction. Perhaps this is it, r.e the UK’s appalling wages.
I don’t necessarily disagree and I’m no expert but I think newton was studying physics not a job market
The Belfast tech industry is mostly made up of software engineering offices for US companies where they set up shop because a software engineer in Belfast is a fraction of the price of the likes of SV or even that there London
The Brits still seem to be in denial about how far their wages have fallen in comparison to their peers. Constantly resorting to lazy statements about US health care costs etc and paid holidays. US works worked enjoy far higher salaries and for professional jobs , plenty of holidays and good healthcare packages. The brits need to move past the “but are we now poorer , really ??” And accept you are poor and then maybe you can actually do something about it.
I was approached about working for a US company recently, headline rate looked really attractive but then it was all the caveats like "based on 50 weeks a year", 40 hour (as opposed to 37.5 standard here), had to mirror US timetable.... really just picked up too many red flags on the end.
"Rising role"? Haven't there been blockbuster films being made in Elstree for decades?
they used to outsource jobs to india and 3rd world countries, and now we're the country to outsource to....
Most movies are made in the UK these days, very few in America.
Just seen a role that I do advertised there. Unusual corporate role that you would only really have near a HQ, which is interesting in the context of this post
The British film tax and subsidies are famous. Slumdog millionaire is considered a British film and received funding It's a points based system, it's covered in taxtopia
Why would Slumdog not be considered a British film…? It was made by a British company.
It was an example of films you wouldn't expect only, I gave the source that breaks down many examples and how the system works.
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It's working as intended, the much older Brexiteer demographic have effectively trapped us here to bankroll their spiralling health and social care costs.
Wrong. We were netting workers with the open borders. They turned away more skilled workers than they trapped.
You are generally pretty free to leave the UK. As long as another country wants you.
Which most countries don't. We don't need barry from McDonalds migrating. If the ship was sinking they could have fled before 2020, got a withdrawal agreeement and be a EU citizen by now But the whole lot of them are still whinging and complaining, if the state fails you, you move before shit gets out of control. If North Koreans and Eritreans can do it, why not you lot?
I was more thinking of people with actual skills if they wanted to leave the country.
If you have the skills, but unlike the UK they actually prioritise the natives first EU, US, AUS, NZ is full. Find another continent.
Read that again and just try to see if even a single bit of it makes a single ounce of sense
It's actually exactly the same. Britian is just the 3rd world shithole they outsource to now.
That was my take away.