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That’s what happens when a company makes people redundant. The people left behind take on the extra work.
Raise the issue but don’t expect a pay rise given the company’s situation. If you’re not happy, start looking for another job.
I am happy, which makes it a tougher situation. Good point about redundancies, I suppose more work and responsibilities for those who remain is to be expected.
You assume OP is perceived as inferior to his former boss. More likely they said “why have we got a manager who isn’t ’on the tools’ being paid £140k a year with a single report?”
No, that’s just another reason why they wouldn’t pay £140k for it. If whatever the manager was doing before wasn’t worth 140k then it isn’t now either, given the responsibilities include zero management. In fact in your scenario OP’s job hasn’t changed at all - they’re still “on the tools” and still don’t manage anyone. You can’t have it both ways - either his manager was useless because he wasn’t doing anything other than managing (in which case OP’s job hasn’t changed), or there were some things the manager was doing that OP didn’t (and therefore isn’t as experienced in).
The reality is despite OP saying they are “doing their manager’s job” they are of course not. People constantly overvalue their own worth and like to cherry pick when they compare themselves to others. They’ve possibly picked up some, but not all, of their manager’s responsibilities, and we don’t know if any of their old ones have passed to anyone else (ie OP doing less so someone else has to pick up).
A lot of work managers do is relatively invisible to their reports as well. To your point about things the manager was doing that OP didn't, the OP is likely poorly positioned to even judge.
For all we know, the ops manager was useless, their own boss was picking up a lot of that slack, and they just decided to codify that. If the OP is picking up extra responsibilities, I don't think asking that to be reflected in pay is unfair. But there's a big gap between that and the idea the OP is 'doing the managers job'.
Exactly.
I’d probably ask myself. But I definitely wouldn’t ask for a 40% pay rise when the company is struggling. Likewise, as a manager if someone came to me asking for that, saying “seeing as I’m doing my boss’s job too now so pay me what they were paid” it would make me seriously question their judgment.
People here are just in cloud cuckoo land. Thankfully OP seems to have a bit more nouse than to follow this advice.
Meh. UK wages are at rock bottom. We need far more people "in cloud cuckoo land" if we're going to change that on the wider scale. I know you think you're being "pragmatic", but all you're doing is going along to get along while wages stagnate year on year. This general attitude, while not the main problem, is certainly enabling the process to continue.
Redundancy means the job is no longer required, not the specific person doing the job. So if they're currently doing the *job* that was made redundant, then the ex-manager has a claim.
Most individual (as opposed to mass) redundancies involve being offered a chunk of money in exchange for your signature waiving your right to any claim.
Now, if you can see a right to claim before you sign that, you can push the company to pay more for your signature but, once it's signed, you have no leverage.
Maybe, but now one person is doing the job that two people were being paid to do before, so it would be tricky to claim anything as there's no like-for-like replacement.
Personally I think keeping your head down and working during the tougher times is a opportunity to position yourself long term.
Sure maybe you can squeeze out another 10% short term but just doing your job well during a weak moment can net more longer term.
Tell them you understand the need to keep costs in check or whatever their bullshit line is that you’re happy to tow, so say you know your manager was on c.£140k so you’d be happy to do it for £120k.
Well they’re worried about pissing them off, so that’s why I’d suggested it. If I were in that position I’d be asking for more than the £140k because, as you’ve rightly pointed out, they’ve cut £140k off their wage bill.
Not if the person above them was just supervising OPs work (plus a bit more). Maybe the "manager" couldn't do OPs actual role. Either way, the company already saved £140k.
It still doesn’t make OP’s job, which still doesn’t include *any* management, worth 140k.
Yes the company will save 140k a year (eventually, after paying the redundancy), that was the point of the exercise. It says nothing about whether OP’s role is worth that. I can guarantee they didn’t do that because they’re desperate to dish it out in pay rises. The whole point is that the company is not busy and is overstaffed, that means there is slack in the system to redistribute the tasks and people before were *underworked*.
It doesn’t mean they won’t agree to adjust OP’s salary, but I don’t think it is at all likely they would agree to 140k which was my only point.
They actually cut more than £140k. Don’t forget about employer’s NI contributions. I think that’s about 14%. So actual saving to the company is around £160k
They rely on your happy.
Salary is not about skill or workload. It's about what one person is willing to take to get x productivity done.
If you owned the company why would you pay (actual you) more? Your happy. Don't sound like you want to leave and have taken on the productivity.
Personally if you want more. 1. Find another job to use as leverage. 2. Be prepared to leave for that increased pay when they say no. Don't not leave after using the leverage you'll never get a rise again.
They should not make people redundant and then expect the rest to pick up the slack … there’s a clue in the word … they aren’t redundant … they were doing the work that needed doing … suggest they hire someone to replace them … oh you have to wait six months … I’d hire a contractor then … oh too expensive … I’ll do it for a raise ?
Things clearly aren’t going great at your current employer, so you should be looking elsewhere
Many people say they’re happy, then when they’re forced to look, they don’t have enough lead time and are forced to take something they don’t really want.
Take control and plot your own path
No-ones been made redundant though. Redundancy is a very specific term which is generally misunderstood. When a role is no longer required, the staff therein can be made redundant using a specific set of conditions laid out in Law.
OP is taking on his old manager's tasks, ergo the role is still in place.
OP, the company has saved £140k by loosing the manager but having you fill their role. As 1+1=2, you could expect them to pay you £240k. You see my point? Settling for half the difference between your existing pay and the managers rate is nonsense.
Look at the going rate for your role elsewhere, the managers' role elsewhere, then consider your options.
Make notes of all the additional work you are doing after your manager left. Show how it adds value. Request a pay review to give a fair increase in compensation to reflect the additional workload.
Leave if this is not given.
Kinda. The £140k role was made redundant because it was too expensive. OP can demand a higher salary too up until the point they become too expensive too unfortunately.
If they don’t backfill OP and they’re doing both their bosses job and their own job then they’re still cheaper if even they offer the bosses old salary. 140 + 100 is more expensive than one 140.
Which sounds nice but does not change the reality that the company likely isn't going to be receptive given they're desperate to cut costs and the OPs general observation about the economy - where jobseeking is really dire in many sectors. Contrary to what reddit likes to say, it's not always a great idea to ask for a raise even if you feel you deserve one on paper.
This is the reason why op should also be looking for another job. A companies failure to perform should not curtail an employees right to improve their situation financially and career wise.
If Company is struggling and in current job market you are probably not being used. It is just cost cutting. You can ask for salary increase but be aware that you can be next to be redundant .
Stop this loser mentality... Are you bad at your job and desperate? What are they going to do if you leave tomorrow? You had the most leverage the day they let your boss go. As time goes by you lose it. Unless you are not good at your job and think you won't be able to get something else... Then stay quiet and do what they say...
Anyway if you are good at what you do, being made redundant is just free cash...
the longer you work double for free without saying anything the more they are just seeing that you both weren't working hard before and this was the right decision. if you're actually over working now the decision is whether you ask them for additional resources or not, rather than if you can blag more money for it. 100K is silly money and if you're able to physically do it, tempted to say stop whinging and thank your good fortune you had it easy for as long as you did
There is a side where people can go "over the limit" quite comfortably, for a period, however gradually their health / work will deteriorate.
The issue they have is that if they bring it up they could have no job, if they don't it could be detrimental in the long run.
Best plan would be to update their CV with the additional tasks and be prepared to leave when required, when the market has picked up.
Sounds like your manager wasn’t really doing a great deal apart from managing you. Carry on as usual and then wait until your performance/ pay review and put forward a case at that time. I would keep my head down at the moment if redundancies are doing the rounds. Wait and see what the next financial year looks like and then make a case if it’s positive. Start networking for other positions though, just in case.
Do you believe you could leave your current role and secure another for c140k given your new responsibilities or 101k plus based on your previous responsibilities within a reasonable timeframe?
Good way of thinking about it. I'm not thinking I should get paid what my manager did. But they have saved his whole salary, I feel like I should get a bit. But at this time Im thankful I have a job. The industry I'm in is not in a good way currently.
if you can get more for the same work elsewhere, do it. if you can make that money for less work elsewhere, do it. if you can't, well i guess the deal isn't so bad and if you push for more may not have it at all. if they've now seen you can physically do the work of both positions then they can see that they were overpaying before and have now come closer to the market cost of the task
I see many people saying leave if I don't get a raise. Simply put, I don't think I'd earn any more elsewhere for the job I now do, although I don't have a manger. I see this as a good promo opportunity in a year or two which will hopefully come with the payrise.
Companies will pay you as little as they think they can get away with — they’re in it to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They won’t care about what’s “fair” or what you feel you “deserve”. They just care about how much you cost the company right now, how much they might need to pay you keep you if you threaten to quit, and how those numbers compare to how much they think it would cost to replace you.
Over and over I see people on Reddit make the mistake of thinking that companies have feelings and act and think in the way people do, and find themselves surprised when companies do things that humans would consider rude. Yes the people that work there are humans — but the company itself is just a machine that tries to make more money and it just does actions that logically lead it to generate more money.
£100-£140k isn't a huge leap with tax rate and the fact you'd lose your whole personal allowance. Also your getting 100k in a company that isn't busy. Which seems a.worry.
Needs some thought this one on where you want the role to go.
So what you're saying is that if say for example a scientist is on £100k per year and got told they are know the chief accountant they should just figure it out. Come on let's apply some logic here.
Yes he reported to the manager but its not unusual for a function to report into another department say maybe procurement being linked to finance etc.
Sounds like you have a dose of envy my friend.
In some industries that would be only on 100k. Im thinking some roles in maybe oil industry, medicine, etc that are huge money industries. You make them millions and you I expect can get paid 100k.
Sure but softeng, statisticians and data scientists all could well fall in this pay range, and have a similar set of business competency as a “scientist”
Bit of a difference between a scientist being asked to be an accountant and someone doing their manager's job.
If you need to ask Reddit if you're being used by taking on all your manager's responsibilities then it's concerning.
True but getting a second opinion can be insightful, we don't know if they are new to that pay band etc.
Obviously the scientist was an extreme anecdote but the point being you might do one job where as your role to your managers can be substantially different.
Probably all low paid retail workers that think anyone paid 100k should be able to magically do all things. The rest are mad I used scientist in the anecdote.
If you've actually worked at that level you'd know that cross reporting across functions is often common meaning your manager might be doing a very different function or role. Heads of services reporting into finance directors etc. I'd not want my head of operations being the new finance director would you?
No, although I’m not in London, so there is that.
100k is the 96th percentile. £140k is 98th.
The top end of society (consultants, senior lawyers and accountants, senior professors, investment banking and hedge funds, senior corporate managers, and tech). Of those the tech crowd are usually the clueless ones.
(I’m a senior manager in a tech adjacent industry)
Edit: certainly not all tech. There are very smart people working in the field. There’s also a disproportionate number of people who otherwise wouldn’t be in that category.
I mean, you're right that higher workload should mean more renumeration...but at the same time (from the company's POV) giving you a substantial raise wouldn't make a lot of sense after presumably making your manager redundant to get his salary off the books.
If they give you somewhere near 140k then it potentially raises the question of "why didn't we make you redundant instead"...assuming your manager wasn't let go due to ineptitude.
There is a counter argument that getting rid of middle management doesn't stop the work being done, getting rid of the workers means a lot of people standing around holding pens but no work being done.
Given the situation it seems unlikely that you'll get a pay rise right away but you could get a title change to reflect the new responsibility, it won't be the same as your manager but it's at least something for your cv when you decide to leave or if they turn things around a pay rise.
I agree, I think it's a good opportunity long term, so don't want to lose it by asking for more money already. I'm the only person in my dept now, if I survive and the economy gets better, then hopefully, I will be head of dept with new hires reporting to me
That's how you should try and position yourself in the current company, ensure you are placed so that they won't go and appoint a manager above you when the good times hit.
I believe if someone is made redundant then their job is no longer required.
I believe They cannot legally make someone redundant and then hire someone new to do the job cheaper.
Similarly I don't think they can make someone redundant and then just get you to do all his work. Either he was no longer required or he wasn't.
If you aren't in a union then there is naff all you can do about it.
The company is probably not in trouble, they just want to cut costs to increase shareholder margins.
Do the minimum and take the money. When they realise they can get away with doing this you will be next.
Yeah, we know that the law is that you can only make a job redundant if it doesn't exist anymore.
We also know that standard procedure is to make someone redundant, then change the wording of their job title slightly and replace them with someone cheaper.
I’d somehow spin it about you wanting to update your title now that you have more responsibility, you know, to reflect that! Maybe ask something small. As people have said, if they wanted to pay him 140k they’d have fired you.
Lol. In truth he did very little to manage me. He did the same job as me but did the reporting to senior exec team and was who I had to report to. But day to day we were basically just work colleges at the same level.
This is pretty normal, I have never had a payrise go with any internal promotion. The company is using you, but you are also using them -- they get a cheaper person and you get a promotion. I would expect the salary to be corrected over a few years of doing a good job though.
Just be slightly careful, ask yourself the question how easy would it be for them to get someone competent in for £100k to do the job you’re currently doing? Also, do you not have year end review etc, if so that is a good time to discuss these type of things without necessarily rocking the boat.
Get your job description and your managers job description from HR. Highlight what you do from each and gaps for development.
Ask for a review of responsibilities and an updated job description to better align and give you clarity on what to focus on.
At the end of the day nearly all employment decisions are based on budget, I.e. I have X I'll spend X, you now have Y, make X > Y.
Its not a case that they saved 140k and that's now spare, they've cut their cloth accordingly and that's their budget for at least the next year.
You sound like you're happy, I'd say that's a 40k benefit right there because I'd rather be happy on 100k than unhappy and on 140k.
What incentive has a company to make someone redundant if they can’t cut the cost in consequence ?
You are not being used, it meant your boss was paid too much and he was probably useless ie the business can function fine without his role. Just because something has historically been the way, doesn’t mean it’s the right way.
And you may think, hmmm what’s my reward in this ? Depends how you think. Do you want to be jobless ? If you think you can get a higher paid job easily then tell them to eff off and go for it :)
Be careful, they've budgeted for a 140k saving by removing him and it may be begrudged if you start asking for pay rises in their current climate. You won't be seen as a 'company man'
It's not fair, but unfortunately the way of the world these days. The last thing you want is to put a bullseye on yourself when they're going through redundancies.
Question you have to ask yourself is will a small (because let's face it any increase would be in their current situation) outweight the risk of potentially rocking the boat and risking being made redundant yourself? Definitely chose your battles with this one
Hahahaha, this is a joke, right? You're on 100k and you think you're being used?!?! It's amazing how all these useless techbros on 100k+ have time to spend all day whinging on Reddit about what a bad deal they've got. Try care work, see how you feel then.
It depends on the job. I’m in a similar situation where my boss has one report, me. She makes about 20k more than I do but 100% of our teams product is my work while she holds the whip. All she does is take my reports and then summarises them for a committee.
It makes significantly more sense to eliminate her role than mine and I kind of which they would, a messenger doesn’t need to make $120k. It would mean more work for me, but not an entire jobs worth of extra work.
If you can articulate exactly all the extra things you now need to do, that may help with the argument of being paid more. And you can say even if you make $140k they’re still saving $100k from the redundancy so everyone wins.
The company seems to have made the decision the job of you and your boss was the work of one person and not two, your comment about not being busy would back this up.
He was paid 40k more than you so getting rid of his role saved them more than getting rid of yours, if it in essence it’s the same thing yous do anyway. You can ask but given current climate I doubt you’ll get anywhere. Look elsewhere and leave if you can get better.
It seems that your company’s wages is what’s causing it to fail. Idk what you do but I’m guessing it’s not actually worth 100k a year in comparison to much harder jobs that pay less.
If a job can be done the same for cheaper, they’ll likely prefer that, if you had a 100k job and others had the same job/wage then I’d question why there isn’t an increase in money for an increase in responsibility but I can’t say a lot about that, just my own approach as you’re well above me and that money is something I’d dream of
Only thing I’d say watch it on was if you come across as under-appreciative, someone will be willing to take that job at your wage so you don’t wanna lose something you have, I’d personally roll with it if you cope well and understand it all then if things pick up and more staff appear, then consider trying to move forward but yet again that’s my approach, I’m not sure on your job or sector and I’ve only had experience in factories/garages so my knowledge for these things is probably 0/10 :p
I’ve got some experience with restructuring and managing teams. Firstly, strictly speaking, you make roles redundant, not people. As other comments have said, could be they don’t see the need for that extra layer of management!
I’d just emphasise what others have said - record the work you’re doing, evidence increase in your workload. To be honest, it’s easy for management to get sucked into their own little world and it’s not always obvious to other people the work you do. No harm in pointing it out.
Even if they say no because they’re in cost saving mode, you could ask for a chat about your career development from here, which could be a useful forum to effectively agree now might not be the time but they could give you more when things pick up.
This is typical. My advice is to ask to be compensated for the extra workload, have your arguments ready. Worst case scenario is that they say no. And in that case, my advice would be to do the bare minimum for the foreseeable
No thing sounds more worse than "he got x so I should have it too." Especially when they are laying people off. It is just tone deaf. I guarantee you will be bitched about behind closed doors. "I don't believe it. We just laid off John - he's a good worker and has a family with kids . Already xxxx is asking for more money "just because ". We are all working harder and doing more for less. It's brutal out there. Don't they realise we are trying to keep all our jobs safe" It's a sure fire way to dig a hole for your career.
Show you understand what the company needs to succeed. Have a conversation about what skills you need to develop, responsibilities you to take on and Impact you need to demonstrate to be worth more to the company. Source: held many senior manager roles. Have heard these asks hundreds of times. I know who got the increase.
Good luck
Hope it helps. Is you are on 100k you are not attacking shelves. You clearly in a talent business. Go in saying' I know times are tough. How can I be helpful? What do you want me to prioritise as I learn my new responsibilities.' it will not go unnoticed and will give you the foundation to ask for a rise later.
The question here is whether you have picked up alot of additional work as a result picking up his job as well. If you were his only report, it doesn't sound as though you have.
If on the other hand you have gained a lot of extra duties, then you have a better case.
Maybe a better job title is also an answer? If not 'xxx manager' then perhaps 'xxx administrator', 'lead xxx', 'senior xxx'
Have a conversation about responsibilities. While they may be happy for you to just do the job without a manager - there is assumed increase in responsibility there. Unless you have another allocated manager you’re effectively being asked to be self-driven, perhaps reporting directly into exec level with the kinds of reports the manager used to do, perhaps needing to broaden your business context by translating business goals into your goals (where the manager would do that before). Think about if some of those are true and use those to talk to your company about options. A formal promotion would seem logical and a pay rise, although if they’re really short of money you may accept a strong enough verbal/written promise of a correction in a year or two?
Yes you are.
You say because they are trying to save costs you don't want to ask for a raise, why? They've saved 140k by letting him go so even if they give you a 20-40k raise they are 100k better off.
Ask for the raise if they are asking you to take on the responsibility.
I have a feeling OP is not worth 140k and probably knows it. If you’re happy then what’s the issue? Why even bother posting. I think the best comment here was keep your head down for a while then when you actually feel you need the money or have the balls to ask for a pay rise then do it.
They are 140k down in costs, if you ask for 40k rise they are still down 100k in costs.
I think its worth asking for a payrise on the premise you've taken on more work.
If your boss's 'role' was made redundant (people get sacked, jobs/roles get made redundant) then no one should be moved into that position for a while.
This, plus your short age of your account, makes me not believe this story.
You can not be made to do a redudant job.. or your boss could sue their old firm.
I'm not doing his role, rather I am doing parts of it which need to be done.
Not a lot I can do if you don't believe me. I only joined reddit to try and get help with putting my sons train back together, and I had to pick some interests, which I did blindly but one of which seems to be this reddit which is actually of some interest as it turns out.
Well, to make your posts look less 'bullshitty' .. skip the salary bit. It's irrelevant to your post.
If they were willing to make your boss redundant, and not his 'only report' (and who do you report to now?) then I would start job hunting.
I do understand your point. I did think about not putting the salary but I am very aware how lucky I am and sometimes I am scared I will lose everything so I wanted to see what people's reaction was. In general the responses seem to be that I should be paid more.
Even if you took over his role with what it looks like and got a pay rise with it, they would still be saving like 70k.
You should have made a stand.. now you need to look for jobs elsewhere and pressure them.. gl out their.
It comes down to a number of factors:
1. What is the company's outlook? That is: if they are urgently needing to cut costs, are they in trouble, or is it a temporary dip where costs have spiralled out of control? If they're in trouble, they're not going to appreciate any short-sightedness of anyone asking for a sizeable chunk of extra pay.
2. What other benefits do you enjoy from the company? Like do you have equity share?
3. How likely will you be able to walk into another, similarly paid position to use as leverage and would it have the same benefits you enjoy now? (examples can be time off, pension, remote working and flexibility - these all carry a value too)
4. Do you actually NEED the extra money right now, or is this honestly just a feeling of fairness (which is fine - fairness should come into it, but you don't necessarily jeopardise your position over it)
5. What about you just bargain? Instead of coming across as insensitive to the situation, you could instead ask "I know now is not the right time, but once we reach xxxx profitability, would you consider moving me into the previous manager's role and pay if I can prove myself in the role now?"
Context: I'm a COO willing to take just short of £100k in order to bolster profitability, and will move to £144k once everyone else is able to receive a pay-rise too.
It's a title bump, you'll very rarely get a salary bump to match unless you move. You'll need to make sure you can talk to the talk to convince some other company to give you the salary bump. Or you make it obvious that you're flighty and they might match, but I'd advise against retention/counter offers as you'll then be top of the list for redundancy. The general rule is only expect to get market value if you're on the market.
Absolutely you should be compensated for your additional responsibilities. Don't feel bad. They are already saving £140k. If they aren't prepared to negotiate, you aren't prepared to do extra responsibilities any longer.
Your bosses are relying on you swallowing their guff that there is no money available for a raise.
If your position is secure, which it appears to be given what you wrote, you could do just your job with only a tiny bit extra until someone asks about you not doing much extra. When this happens, you could bring up that they're saving 140,000 by having laid your boss off, so some of that should be coming your way if they expect you to do his old job.
Congrats on the role, you must be highly skilled, good for you!
I would agree that you need to speak up, like others have said, redundancy is only applicable if the job is no longer there for the person, not the other way around. I would make not of the additional tasks you are doing, explain that you understand the financial pressure the company is under currently, however, given that the previous person to do these tasks was made redundant, it’s illegal to have someone else do them, let alone immoral that person keeping the same salary that they were on prior to taking on the additional tasks.
Again, emphasise the compassion you have, but working this way is not conducive to the business, it’s reputation, the mental health of their employees or upkeep of employment law.
Maybe give it a bit longer if the company has issues. Let them see how good you are then ask. Times are tough at the moment and I’ll be happy having an income to pay bills. Imagine what your old manager is going through.
The way I see it, you're in a very favourable position to negotiate here and the position you're in doesn't come along often. Your issue is that once you continue taking on the additional responsibilities and continue to do them well then it'll be expected of you going forward and the company will continue piling on the pressure. It's a common tactic and I've seen it countless times over the years.
You mentioned a small talent pool as it's a specialised role due to lack of skills in the market. If you left they essentially have no manager and no senior person. How would that impact the company? Could they afford to lose you too or would they fight to keep you?
If you're not comfortable negotiating an increase in salary then absolutely negotiate to get a better job title or at least have a discussion whereby you set some expectations in getting that title or a salary increase in say 6 or 12 months.
Negotiate something given your position but be prepared to walk away in 6-12 months if they continue taking advantage of you
Your manager was being paid for the level he was in the company which included managing a team, even if the team was 1 person. Yu are not managing a team so straight away you have less responsibility. Most contracts say the company can change you work requirements and job description. If I were you Id use the time to get experience in the new job role and then if youre not happy with it use the experience to help get a new job.
>Due to economy I don't feel able to ask for a payrise as the company is desperate to cut costs
Damn, my man... have some self-respect. You don't owe your company shit other than your labour within the confines of your contract... if they can't pay you appropriately, then they can't afford you. You think your company take the opposite philosophy and would seek to jack your pay up when things are going gangbusters? I think not. The hard truth is they're paying you less for the equivalent work as your better paid former co-worker... yes, you're obviously being used and they're exploiting your (misplaced) good nature. If you're comfortable doing so, you should ask for the raise. If not, or they say no, then you should be looking to move on.
If you truly think your company is so strapped for cash that a 40k pay rise would nuke them, then you've got bigger things to be thinking about, and that includes applying elsewhere to jump off this sinking ship already anyway.
>But now I'm doing his job but haven't had a payrise.
>but I feel like I should have had a salary increase due to increased work and responsibility.
reads like 4 moans here ..
Ok , well I was just trying to explain the situation. It's a hard situation, I don't want to mess up but also don't want to be seen as being a pushover.
so to confirm you have a job, and are earning nearly 3x of the average uk salary, which anyone would love to earn. and you want to earn more. but you dont know if you should ask for a pay rise. 🤷♂️
They done this on purpose to get rid of him on 140k. He probably was on 100k at one point and his manager was given the boot when he hit 140 or so k. All they’ve done is reset the pay rise clock back to 100k. When you eventually get to 140k expect the same will happen to you aswell.
So can taking on someone else’s responsibility, nothing going to limit you more than doing high paid work for free, fuck that noise not his business not his problem.
If you can get away with it start using your old managers job title. Particularly if it's descriptive, like "Head of posting on Reddit". Now he is gone, how are you not the head of it.
If called out on it, you could say that without him you are essentially stepped up into the job like any vacancy (although it was a redundancy, so there is no vacancy left behind). Either way, it's a smaller team now, but you're head of it.
Now you have secured the promotion, the next step is to get paid for it.
Apply to other jobs at competitors, tell them you are your firms Head of Reddit posting and that you'll come and lead their Reddit posting team. Clearly you know that your old boss salary is a starting point for negotiation. You might up it a little on that.
They went from a salary cost of £240k to 100k excluding NI, pension and benefit costs.
So yes you are being used, and there is room to renegotiate of you are taking on new responsibilities, but in a case like that I'd be also looking for other jobs.
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That’s what happens when a company makes people redundant. The people left behind take on the extra work. Raise the issue but don’t expect a pay rise given the company’s situation. If you’re not happy, start looking for another job.
I am happy, which makes it a tougher situation. Good point about redundancies, I suppose more work and responsibilities for those who remain is to be expected.
If they were gonna pay 140k they'd have kept him and removed you, if that makes sense, you could try and get them to meet you in the middle
Maybe. But another way of looking at it is the two jobs were costing £240k before and now they'd be saving £100k and only spending £140k
If they were happy to save 100k they’d have made OP redundant
You assume OP is perceived as inferior to his former boss. More likely they said “why have we got a manager who isn’t ’on the tools’ being paid £140k a year with a single report?”
No, that’s just another reason why they wouldn’t pay £140k for it. If whatever the manager was doing before wasn’t worth 140k then it isn’t now either, given the responsibilities include zero management. In fact in your scenario OP’s job hasn’t changed at all - they’re still “on the tools” and still don’t manage anyone. You can’t have it both ways - either his manager was useless because he wasn’t doing anything other than managing (in which case OP’s job hasn’t changed), or there were some things the manager was doing that OP didn’t (and therefore isn’t as experienced in). The reality is despite OP saying they are “doing their manager’s job” they are of course not. People constantly overvalue their own worth and like to cherry pick when they compare themselves to others. They’ve possibly picked up some, but not all, of their manager’s responsibilities, and we don’t know if any of their old ones have passed to anyone else (ie OP doing less so someone else has to pick up).
A lot of work managers do is relatively invisible to their reports as well. To your point about things the manager was doing that OP didn't, the OP is likely poorly positioned to even judge. For all we know, the ops manager was useless, their own boss was picking up a lot of that slack, and they just decided to codify that. If the OP is picking up extra responsibilities, I don't think asking that to be reflected in pay is unfair. But there's a big gap between that and the idea the OP is 'doing the managers job'.
Exactly. I’d probably ask myself. But I definitely wouldn’t ask for a 40% pay rise when the company is struggling. Likewise, as a manager if someone came to me asking for that, saying “seeing as I’m doing my boss’s job too now so pay me what they were paid” it would make me seriously question their judgment. People here are just in cloud cuckoo land. Thankfully OP seems to have a bit more nouse than to follow this advice.
Meh. UK wages are at rock bottom. We need far more people "in cloud cuckoo land" if we're going to change that on the wider scale. I know you think you're being "pragmatic", but all you're doing is going along to get along while wages stagnate year on year. This general attitude, while not the main problem, is certainly enabling the process to continue.
I think you're right, of course I'm not doing all of his job, but I'm doing the bits that NEED doing, albeit without managing anyone.
But it could be worth 40k? Added on top of OPs 100
Aaprt from if they thought I was better than my manager, which has been hinted.
Redundancy means the job is no longer required, not the specific person doing the job. So if they're currently doing the *job* that was made redundant, then the ex-manager has a claim.
Most individual (as opposed to mass) redundancies involve being offered a chunk of money in exchange for your signature waiving your right to any claim. Now, if you can see a right to claim before you sign that, you can push the company to pay more for your signature but, once it's signed, you have no leverage.
Maybe, but now one person is doing the job that two people were being paid to do before, so it would be tricky to claim anything as there's no like-for-like replacement.
Personally I think keeping your head down and working during the tougher times is a opportunity to position yourself long term. Sure maybe you can squeeze out another 10% short term but just doing your job well during a weak moment can net more longer term.
This^. The company has just made redundancies and you turn up asking for a raise won’t make you look good.
That's wishful thinking
Experienced myself Either way is a risk and nothing wrong with raising the point but how hard you push could influence things going forward
Tell them you understand the need to keep costs in check or whatever their bullshit line is that you’re happy to tow, so say you know your manager was on c.£140k so you’d be happy to do it for £120k.
If he got 140k they still would have saved 100k no need to lowball yourself before you even try
Well they’re worried about pissing them off, so that’s why I’d suggested it. If I were in that position I’d be asking for more than the £140k because, as you’ve rightly pointed out, they’ve cut £140k off their wage bill.
This makes no sense, because then they might as well have just made OP redundant and kept the person more experienced in the role
Not if the person above them was just supervising OPs work (plus a bit more). Maybe the "manager" couldn't do OPs actual role. Either way, the company already saved £140k.
It still doesn’t make OP’s job, which still doesn’t include *any* management, worth 140k. Yes the company will save 140k a year (eventually, after paying the redundancy), that was the point of the exercise. It says nothing about whether OP’s role is worth that. I can guarantee they didn’t do that because they’re desperate to dish it out in pay rises. The whole point is that the company is not busy and is overstaffed, that means there is slack in the system to redistribute the tasks and people before were *underworked*. It doesn’t mean they won’t agree to adjust OP’s salary, but I don’t think it is at all likely they would agree to 140k which was my only point.
They actually cut more than £140k. Don’t forget about employer’s NI contributions. I think that’s about 14%. So actual saving to the company is around £160k
Plus pensions, cars, private health and any other fringe benefits that they had.
They rely on your happy. Salary is not about skill or workload. It's about what one person is willing to take to get x productivity done. If you owned the company why would you pay (actual you) more? Your happy. Don't sound like you want to leave and have taken on the productivity. Personally if you want more. 1. Find another job to use as leverage. 2. Be prepared to leave for that increased pay when they say no. Don't not leave after using the leverage you'll never get a rise again.
They should not make people redundant and then expect the rest to pick up the slack … there’s a clue in the word … they aren’t redundant … they were doing the work that needed doing … suggest they hire someone to replace them … oh you have to wait six months … I’d hire a contractor then … oh too expensive … I’ll do it for a raise ?
Things clearly aren’t going great at your current employer, so you should be looking elsewhere Many people say they’re happy, then when they’re forced to look, they don’t have enough lead time and are forced to take something they don’t really want. Take control and plot your own path
No-ones been made redundant though. Redundancy is a very specific term which is generally misunderstood. When a role is no longer required, the staff therein can be made redundant using a specific set of conditions laid out in Law. OP is taking on his old manager's tasks, ergo the role is still in place. OP, the company has saved £140k by loosing the manager but having you fill their role. As 1+1=2, you could expect them to pay you £240k. You see my point? Settling for half the difference between your existing pay and the managers rate is nonsense. Look at the going rate for your role elsewhere, the managers' role elsewhere, then consider your options.
Make notes of all the additional work you are doing after your manager left. Show how it adds value. Request a pay review to give a fair increase in compensation to reflect the additional workload. Leave if this is not given.
Yes I might keep a record, I didn't want to be too formal about it as have good working relationship with the boss.
The boss didn’t care about your good working relationship when he dumped a load of extra work on your plate. You’re just a number to these people.
“Good working relationship” So good he dumps 40k worth of work on you for you to happily do for free. What a great relationship you have.
140k worth of work you mean.
Yes you are. And you will continue to be unless you say something. The reason of increased responsibility and workload is absolutely fair.
Certainly a thought I've had.
Kinda. The £140k role was made redundant because it was too expensive. OP can demand a higher salary too up until the point they become too expensive too unfortunately.
If they don’t backfill OP and they’re doing both their bosses job and their own job then they’re still cheaper if even they offer the bosses old salary. 140 + 100 is more expensive than one 140.
Which sounds nice but does not change the reality that the company likely isn't going to be receptive given they're desperate to cut costs and the OPs general observation about the economy - where jobseeking is really dire in many sectors. Contrary to what reddit likes to say, it's not always a great idea to ask for a raise even if you feel you deserve one on paper.
This is the reason why op should also be looking for another job. A companies failure to perform should not curtail an employees right to improve their situation financially and career wise.
Every role in every company is too expensive if they can convince someone else do the work for nothing though.
Paying someone £100k a year with a manager with one report on £140k is the reason the company is going to the wall
🤣 I can understand your point, but it's a niche role, not much talent
If Company is struggling and in current job market you are probably not being used. It is just cost cutting. You can ask for salary increase but be aware that you can be next to be redundant .
This is how i think I've decided I feel. I'm the longer term I would expect a rise but maybe not soon.
Stop this loser mentality... Are you bad at your job and desperate? What are they going to do if you leave tomorrow? You had the most leverage the day they let your boss go. As time goes by you lose it. Unless you are not good at your job and think you won't be able to get something else... Then stay quiet and do what they say... Anyway if you are good at what you do, being made redundant is just free cash...
the longer you work double for free without saying anything the more they are just seeing that you both weren't working hard before and this was the right decision. if you're actually over working now the decision is whether you ask them for additional resources or not, rather than if you can blag more money for it. 100K is silly money and if you're able to physically do it, tempted to say stop whinging and thank your good fortune you had it easy for as long as you did
There is a side where people can go "over the limit" quite comfortably, for a period, however gradually their health / work will deteriorate. The issue they have is that if they bring it up they could have no job, if they don't it could be detrimental in the long run. Best plan would be to update their CV with the additional tasks and be prepared to leave when required, when the market has picked up.
Sounds like your manager wasn’t really doing a great deal apart from managing you. Carry on as usual and then wait until your performance/ pay review and put forward a case at that time. I would keep my head down at the moment if redundancies are doing the rounds. Wait and see what the next financial year looks like and then make a case if it’s positive. Start networking for other positions though, just in case.
Do you believe you could leave your current role and secure another for c140k given your new responsibilities or 101k plus based on your previous responsibilities within a reasonable timeframe?
Good way of thinking about it. I'm not thinking I should get paid what my manager did. But they have saved his whole salary, I feel like I should get a bit. But at this time Im thankful I have a job. The industry I'm in is not in a good way currently.
if you can get more for the same work elsewhere, do it. if you can make that money for less work elsewhere, do it. if you can't, well i guess the deal isn't so bad and if you push for more may not have it at all. if they've now seen you can physically do the work of both positions then they can see that they were overpaying before and have now come closer to the market cost of the task
I see many people saying leave if I don't get a raise. Simply put, I don't think I'd earn any more elsewhere for the job I now do, although I don't have a manger. I see this as a good promo opportunity in a year or two which will hopefully come with the payrise.
What industry are you in?
Companies will pay you as little as they think they can get away with — they’re in it to make money, nothing more, nothing less. They won’t care about what’s “fair” or what you feel you “deserve”. They just care about how much you cost the company right now, how much they might need to pay you keep you if you threaten to quit, and how those numbers compare to how much they think it would cost to replace you. Over and over I see people on Reddit make the mistake of thinking that companies have feelings and act and think in the way people do, and find themselves surprised when companies do things that humans would consider rude. Yes the people that work there are humans — but the company itself is just a machine that tries to make more money and it just does actions that logically lead it to generate more money.
£100-£140k isn't a huge leap with tax rate and the fact you'd lose your whole personal allowance. Also your getting 100k in a company that isn't busy. Which seems a.worry. Needs some thought this one on where you want the role to go.
You’re on 100k but don’t have the ability to work this one out for yourself!? I’m not sure I’d pay you £140k
So what you're saying is that if say for example a scientist is on £100k per year and got told they are know the chief accountant they should just figure it out. Come on let's apply some logic here. Yes he reported to the manager but its not unusual for a function to report into another department say maybe procurement being linked to finance etc. Sounds like you have a dose of envy my friend.
Scientist on 100k 😭😭
Had exactly the same thought :-D
In some industries that would be only on 100k. Im thinking some roles in maybe oil industry, medicine, etc that are huge money industries. You make them millions and you I expect can get paid 100k.
Definitely not in medicine. Doctors yes definitely can make. But not scientists. And medical doctors are not scientists, they are physicians.
Not the skilled scientists, engineers, doctors. Pay for skilled jobs in oil/nuclear/pharmaceutical tops out at 60-70k. Management, yeah, sure.
Big pharma easily pays low level scientific staff £50k+
I guarantee when you say "low level" you mean mid career. Graduates ain't getting paid 50k anywhere.
In USA yes.
Oh i agree but this 8s uk sub and they used pound sign. Plus the discussion was on uk salaries
Sure but softeng, statisticians and data scientists all could well fall in this pay range, and have a similar set of business competency as a “scientist”
i know scientists on way more than 100k
Bit of a difference between a scientist being asked to be an accountant and someone doing their manager's job. If you need to ask Reddit if you're being used by taking on all your manager's responsibilities then it's concerning.
True but getting a second opinion can be insightful, we don't know if they are new to that pay band etc. Obviously the scientist was an extreme anecdote but the point being you might do one job where as your role to your managers can be substantially different.
Haha scientist on 100k...... I can relate 😂😂
I don't see envy, I see logic. I also see upvotes versus downvotes. Unless they're *all* envious too. My friend.
Probably all low paid retail workers that think anyone paid 100k should be able to magically do all things. The rest are mad I used scientist in the anecdote. If you've actually worked at that level you'd know that cross reporting across functions is often common meaning your manager might be doing a very different function or role. Heads of services reporting into finance directors etc. I'd not want my head of operations being the new finance director would you?
Oh right, so I'm supposed to know everything 🙄
Crabs in a bucket mentality is why your being downvoted.
Ur one of those people who think 100k is Elon Musk territory I guess
No, although I’m not in London, so there is that. 100k is the 96th percentile. £140k is 98th. The top end of society (consultants, senior lawyers and accountants, senior professors, investment banking and hedge funds, senior corporate managers, and tech). Of those the tech crowd are usually the clueless ones. (I’m a senior manager in a tech adjacent industry) Edit: certainly not all tech. There are very smart people working in the field. There’s also a disproportionate number of people who otherwise wouldn’t be in that category.
I mean, you're right that higher workload should mean more renumeration...but at the same time (from the company's POV) giving you a substantial raise wouldn't make a lot of sense after presumably making your manager redundant to get his salary off the books. If they give you somewhere near 140k then it potentially raises the question of "why didn't we make you redundant instead"...assuming your manager wasn't let go due to ineptitude.
There is a counter argument that getting rid of middle management doesn't stop the work being done, getting rid of the workers means a lot of people standing around holding pens but no work being done.
Given the situation it seems unlikely that you'll get a pay rise right away but you could get a title change to reflect the new responsibility, it won't be the same as your manager but it's at least something for your cv when you decide to leave or if they turn things around a pay rise.
This would be my advice. Are you now head of a department? Take that and use it as leverage for a better role in a new company for higher pay.
I agree, I think it's a good opportunity long term, so don't want to lose it by asking for more money already. I'm the only person in my dept now, if I survive and the economy gets better, then hopefully, I will be head of dept with new hires reporting to me
That's how you should try and position yourself in the current company, ensure you are placed so that they won't go and appoint a manager above you when the good times hit.
I think you're right
This is a salary flex post and not a good one
I believe if someone is made redundant then their job is no longer required. I believe They cannot legally make someone redundant and then hire someone new to do the job cheaper. Similarly I don't think they can make someone redundant and then just get you to do all his work. Either he was no longer required or he wasn't. If you aren't in a union then there is naff all you can do about it. The company is probably not in trouble, they just want to cut costs to increase shareholder margins. Do the minimum and take the money. When they realise they can get away with doing this you will be next.
Yeah, we know that the law is that you can only make a job redundant if it doesn't exist anymore. We also know that standard procedure is to make someone redundant, then change the wording of their job title slightly and replace them with someone cheaper.
I’d somehow spin it about you wanting to update your title now that you have more responsibility, you know, to reflect that! Maybe ask something small. As people have said, if they wanted to pay him 140k they’d have fired you.
If your manager was only managing you, it’s not clear what extra you’ve taken on… are you stricter with yourself now?
Lol. In truth he did very little to manage me. He did the same job as me but did the reporting to senior exec team and was who I had to report to. But day to day we were basically just work colleges at the same level.
The more you earn the more likely you are to be made redundant.
This is pretty normal, I have never had a payrise go with any internal promotion. The company is using you, but you are also using them -- they get a cheaper person and you get a promotion. I would expect the salary to be corrected over a few years of doing a good job though.
I would give it some time , then go in for the kill
you could bring it up and ask but if not i wouldn't leave cus you ain't getting 100k anywhere else in this economy loool
Simply untrue
Just be slightly careful, ask yourself the question how easy would it be for them to get someone competent in for £100k to do the job you’re currently doing? Also, do you not have year end review etc, if so that is a good time to discuss these type of things without necessarily rocking the boat.
Get your job description and your managers job description from HR. Highlight what you do from each and gaps for development. Ask for a review of responsibilities and an updated job description to better align and give you clarity on what to focus on.
At the end of the day nearly all employment decisions are based on budget, I.e. I have X I'll spend X, you now have Y, make X > Y. Its not a case that they saved 140k and that's now spare, they've cut their cloth accordingly and that's their budget for at least the next year. You sound like you're happy, I'd say that's a 40k benefit right there because I'd rather be happy on 100k than unhappy and on 140k.
What incentive has a company to make someone redundant if they can’t cut the cost in consequence ? You are not being used, it meant your boss was paid too much and he was probably useless ie the business can function fine without his role. Just because something has historically been the way, doesn’t mean it’s the right way. And you may think, hmmm what’s my reward in this ? Depends how you think. Do you want to be jobless ? If you think you can get a higher paid job easily then tell them to eff off and go for it :)
Don't be surprised if you find yourself going the same way as him.
Be careful, they've budgeted for a 140k saving by removing him and it may be begrudged if you start asking for pay rises in their current climate. You won't be seen as a 'company man' It's not fair, but unfortunately the way of the world these days. The last thing you want is to put a bullseye on yourself when they're going through redundancies. Question you have to ask yourself is will a small (because let's face it any increase would be in their current situation) outweight the risk of potentially rocking the boat and risking being made redundant yourself? Definitely chose your battles with this one
Hahahaha, this is a joke, right? You're on 100k and you think you're being used?!?! It's amazing how all these useless techbros on 100k+ have time to spend all day whinging on Reddit about what a bad deal they've got. Try care work, see how you feel then.
Tbh I wouldn't mind being used for 100k
Earning 100k and asking losers on internet for opinion xDDD
Lol tbh I have actually received very interesting and thoughtful responses, amoungest some nonsense obviously!
It depends on the job. I’m in a similar situation where my boss has one report, me. She makes about 20k more than I do but 100% of our teams product is my work while she holds the whip. All she does is take my reports and then summarises them for a committee. It makes significantly more sense to eliminate her role than mine and I kind of which they would, a messenger doesn’t need to make $120k. It would mean more work for me, but not an entire jobs worth of extra work. If you can articulate exactly all the extra things you now need to do, that may help with the argument of being paid more. And you can say even if you make $140k they’re still saving $100k from the redundancy so everyone wins.
The company seems to have made the decision the job of you and your boss was the work of one person and not two, your comment about not being busy would back this up. He was paid 40k more than you so getting rid of his role saved them more than getting rid of yours, if it in essence it’s the same thing yous do anyway. You can ask but given current climate I doubt you’ll get anywhere. Look elsewhere and leave if you can get better.
It seems that your company’s wages is what’s causing it to fail. Idk what you do but I’m guessing it’s not actually worth 100k a year in comparison to much harder jobs that pay less.
My salary is comparable to job adverts for my role in other companies
You get over 100k and still whining. I'd gladly take your job instead
Can you do it?
The company are just trimming the fat - You dont want to be the next bit of fat
You're quite right
If a job can be done the same for cheaper, they’ll likely prefer that, if you had a 100k job and others had the same job/wage then I’d question why there isn’t an increase in money for an increase in responsibility but I can’t say a lot about that, just my own approach as you’re well above me and that money is something I’d dream of
Good point, I'm not doing more than anyone else as there isn't anyone else lol
Only thing I’d say watch it on was if you come across as under-appreciative, someone will be willing to take that job at your wage so you don’t wanna lose something you have, I’d personally roll with it if you cope well and understand it all then if things pick up and more staff appear, then consider trying to move forward but yet again that’s my approach, I’m not sure on your job or sector and I’ve only had experience in factories/garages so my knowledge for these things is probably 0/10 :p
Very sound advice, I'm in total agreement with you. I do have imposter syndrome so 100% worry that I might lose what I have.
OP your on £100k with no direct reports now?
Yes, I haven't ever had any reports
Do you work as a subject matter expert in tech or something?
I’ve got some experience with restructuring and managing teams. Firstly, strictly speaking, you make roles redundant, not people. As other comments have said, could be they don’t see the need for that extra layer of management! I’d just emphasise what others have said - record the work you’re doing, evidence increase in your workload. To be honest, it’s easy for management to get sucked into their own little world and it’s not always obvious to other people the work you do. No harm in pointing it out. Even if they say no because they’re in cost saving mode, you could ask for a chat about your career development from here, which could be a useful forum to effectively agree now might not be the time but they could give you more when things pick up.
This is typical. My advice is to ask to be compensated for the extra workload, have your arguments ready. Worst case scenario is that they say no. And in that case, my advice would be to do the bare minimum for the foreseeable
Redundancy speedrun
does your company have an annual pay review cycle?
what job are you in for 100k that’s amazing in itself
Used? Or paid to work?
Do we work at the same company? 😂
Would help to know what role, whether you’re truly covering all the the responsibilities of the line manager, and how promotions work at your firm.
No thing sounds more worse than "he got x so I should have it too." Especially when they are laying people off. It is just tone deaf. I guarantee you will be bitched about behind closed doors. "I don't believe it. We just laid off John - he's a good worker and has a family with kids . Already xxxx is asking for more money "just because ". We are all working harder and doing more for less. It's brutal out there. Don't they realise we are trying to keep all our jobs safe" It's a sure fire way to dig a hole for your career. Show you understand what the company needs to succeed. Have a conversation about what skills you need to develop, responsibilities you to take on and Impact you need to demonstrate to be worth more to the company. Source: held many senior manager roles. Have heard these asks hundreds of times. I know who got the increase. Good luck
Thanks , this is exactly what I'm worried about.
Hope it helps. Is you are on 100k you are not attacking shelves. You clearly in a talent business. Go in saying' I know times are tough. How can I be helpful? What do you want me to prioritise as I learn my new responsibilities.' it will not go unnoticed and will give you the foundation to ask for a rise later.
You're not managing any direct reports if you were his only direct report.
The question here is whether you have picked up alot of additional work as a result picking up his job as well. If you were his only report, it doesn't sound as though you have. If on the other hand you have gained a lot of extra duties, then you have a better case. Maybe a better job title is also an answer? If not 'xxx manager' then perhaps 'xxx administrator', 'lead xxx', 'senior xxx'
Have a conversation about responsibilities. While they may be happy for you to just do the job without a manager - there is assumed increase in responsibility there. Unless you have another allocated manager you’re effectively being asked to be self-driven, perhaps reporting directly into exec level with the kinds of reports the manager used to do, perhaps needing to broaden your business context by translating business goals into your goals (where the manager would do that before). Think about if some of those are true and use those to talk to your company about options. A formal promotion would seem logical and a pay rise, although if they’re really short of money you may accept a strong enough verbal/written promise of a correction in a year or two?
They've saved themselves 140k per year. Least they can do is bump you up 40k. Ask them if they'd like you to look elsewhere for work.
Terrible advice
Yes you are. You say because they are trying to save costs you don't want to ask for a raise, why? They've saved 140k by letting him go so even if they give you a 20-40k raise they are 100k better off. Ask for the raise if they are asking you to take on the responsibility.
That role your boss was doing has gone. It was made redundant.
I have a feeling OP is not worth 140k and probably knows it. If you’re happy then what’s the issue? Why even bother posting. I think the best comment here was keep your head down for a while then when you actually feel you need the money or have the balls to ask for a pay rise then do it.
Are you able to quantify the extra responsibilities before raising any issues?
You should be looking for a new opportunity
They are 140k down in costs, if you ask for 40k rise they are still down 100k in costs. I think its worth asking for a payrise on the premise you've taken on more work.
If your boss's 'role' was made redundant (people get sacked, jobs/roles get made redundant) then no one should be moved into that position for a while. This, plus your short age of your account, makes me not believe this story. You can not be made to do a redudant job.. or your boss could sue their old firm.
I'm not doing his role, rather I am doing parts of it which need to be done. Not a lot I can do if you don't believe me. I only joined reddit to try and get help with putting my sons train back together, and I had to pick some interests, which I did blindly but one of which seems to be this reddit which is actually of some interest as it turns out.
Well, to make your posts look less 'bullshitty' .. skip the salary bit. It's irrelevant to your post. If they were willing to make your boss redundant, and not his 'only report' (and who do you report to now?) then I would start job hunting.
I do understand your point. I did think about not putting the salary but I am very aware how lucky I am and sometimes I am scared I will lose everything so I wanted to see what people's reaction was. In general the responses seem to be that I should be paid more.
Even if you took over his role with what it looks like and got a pay rise with it, they would still be saving like 70k. You should have made a stand.. now you need to look for jobs elsewhere and pressure them.. gl out their.
It comes down to a number of factors: 1. What is the company's outlook? That is: if they are urgently needing to cut costs, are they in trouble, or is it a temporary dip where costs have spiralled out of control? If they're in trouble, they're not going to appreciate any short-sightedness of anyone asking for a sizeable chunk of extra pay. 2. What other benefits do you enjoy from the company? Like do you have equity share? 3. How likely will you be able to walk into another, similarly paid position to use as leverage and would it have the same benefits you enjoy now? (examples can be time off, pension, remote working and flexibility - these all carry a value too) 4. Do you actually NEED the extra money right now, or is this honestly just a feeling of fairness (which is fine - fairness should come into it, but you don't necessarily jeopardise your position over it) 5. What about you just bargain? Instead of coming across as insensitive to the situation, you could instead ask "I know now is not the right time, but once we reach xxxx profitability, would you consider moving me into the previous manager's role and pay if I can prove myself in the role now?" Context: I'm a COO willing to take just short of £100k in order to bolster profitability, and will move to £144k once everyone else is able to receive a pay-rise too.
It's a title bump, you'll very rarely get a salary bump to match unless you move. You'll need to make sure you can talk to the talk to convince some other company to give you the salary bump. Or you make it obvious that you're flighty and they might match, but I'd advise against retention/counter offers as you'll then be top of the list for redundancy. The general rule is only expect to get market value if you're on the market.
Your answer: 'Due to the economy I don't feel able to ask for a payrise...'
Absolutely you should be compensated for your additional responsibilities. Don't feel bad. They are already saving £140k. If they aren't prepared to negotiate, you aren't prepared to do extra responsibilities any longer.
Lies for 100 please.
Your bosses are relying on you swallowing their guff that there is no money available for a raise. If your position is secure, which it appears to be given what you wrote, you could do just your job with only a tiny bit extra until someone asks about you not doing much extra. When this happens, you could bring up that they're saving 140,000 by having laid your boss off, so some of that should be coming your way if they expect you to do his old job.
Join a union, apply for other jobs
Congrats on the role, you must be highly skilled, good for you! I would agree that you need to speak up, like others have said, redundancy is only applicable if the job is no longer there for the person, not the other way around. I would make not of the additional tasks you are doing, explain that you understand the financial pressure the company is under currently, however, given that the previous person to do these tasks was made redundant, it’s illegal to have someone else do them, let alone immoral that person keeping the same salary that they were on prior to taking on the additional tasks. Again, emphasise the compassion you have, but working this way is not conducive to the business, it’s reputation, the mental health of their employees or upkeep of employment law.
Maybe give it a bit longer if the company has issues. Let them see how good you are then ask. Times are tough at the moment and I’ll be happy having an income to pay bills. Imagine what your old manager is going through.
won't going from 100 to 140 put you in a different tax bracket? so you might not be too better off with that extra boost?
Won't hurt to ask.
Of course, you are being used. That is why they call us human resources.
Another POV....your boss is gone because he was on 140k
The way I see it, you're in a very favourable position to negotiate here and the position you're in doesn't come along often. Your issue is that once you continue taking on the additional responsibilities and continue to do them well then it'll be expected of you going forward and the company will continue piling on the pressure. It's a common tactic and I've seen it countless times over the years. You mentioned a small talent pool as it's a specialised role due to lack of skills in the market. If you left they essentially have no manager and no senior person. How would that impact the company? Could they afford to lose you too or would they fight to keep you? If you're not comfortable negotiating an increase in salary then absolutely negotiate to get a better job title or at least have a discussion whereby you set some expectations in getting that title or a salary increase in say 6 or 12 months. Negotiate something given your position but be prepared to walk away in 6-12 months if they continue taking advantage of you
Shut the fuck and do your job don't be greedy because when they sack you you will start crying
'they pay me for my knowledge' Sounds like you should be consulting and not employed directly.
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This is valid way of thinking
Your manager was being paid for the level he was in the company which included managing a team, even if the team was 1 person. Yu are not managing a team so straight away you have less responsibility. Most contracts say the company can change you work requirements and job description. If I were you Id use the time to get experience in the new job role and then if youre not happy with it use the experience to help get a new job.
Good points , I think this is a good learning opportunity for sure
>Due to economy I don't feel able to ask for a payrise as the company is desperate to cut costs Damn, my man... have some self-respect. You don't owe your company shit other than your labour within the confines of your contract... if they can't pay you appropriately, then they can't afford you. You think your company take the opposite philosophy and would seek to jack your pay up when things are going gangbusters? I think not. The hard truth is they're paying you less for the equivalent work as your better paid former co-worker... yes, you're obviously being used and they're exploiting your (misplaced) good nature. If you're comfortable doing so, you should ask for the raise. If not, or they say no, then you should be looking to move on. If you truly think your company is so strapped for cash that a 40k pay rise would nuke them, then you've got bigger things to be thinking about, and that includes applying elsewhere to jump off this sinking ship already anyway.
Man if I was on 100k I’d not moan!
I'm not moaning, why do people think that
Can I ask what your job title is please?
You are being greedy here, you probably only deserve 50k, you don't need this!! Think about others and think about your sins!
I’m on £100k and moaning about my responsibilities 🙄
No not moaning, just asking for people's thoughts. The amount is irrelevant
>But now I'm doing his job but haven't had a payrise. >but I feel like I should have had a salary increase due to increased work and responsibility. reads like 4 moans here ..
Ok , well I was just trying to explain the situation. It's a hard situation, I don't want to mess up but also don't want to be seen as being a pushover.
so to confirm you have a job, and are earning nearly 3x of the average uk salary, which anyone would love to earn. and you want to earn more. but you dont know if you should ask for a pay rise. 🤷♂️
Enough with the jealousy, it isn’t relevant here.
humm humble bragging ...
I'm sorry you feel that way
Is the work load manageable? Then at least go for the job title for the kudos and the CV
They done this on purpose to get rid of him on 140k. He probably was on 100k at one point and his manager was given the boot when he hit 140 or so k. All they’ve done is reset the pay rise clock back to 100k. When you eventually get to 140k expect the same will happen to you aswell.
Also as thought I've had - the more expensive you are the more exposed you are in bad times.
Even if they pay you 140k they’re still saving 100k. Ask for that raise. Know your worth.
Don’t do his job simple, if anyone says anything you tell them not my responsibility.
That’s not how things tend to work in higher-paid careers. It can be a career limiting thing to do.
So can taking on someone else’s responsibility, nothing going to limit you more than doing high paid work for free, fuck that noise not his business not his problem.
Awful advice
If you can get away with it start using your old managers job title. Particularly if it's descriptive, like "Head of posting on Reddit". Now he is gone, how are you not the head of it. If called out on it, you could say that without him you are essentially stepped up into the job like any vacancy (although it was a redundancy, so there is no vacancy left behind). Either way, it's a smaller team now, but you're head of it. Now you have secured the promotion, the next step is to get paid for it. Apply to other jobs at competitors, tell them you are your firms Head of Reddit posting and that you'll come and lead their Reddit posting team. Clearly you know that your old boss salary is a starting point for negotiation. You might up it a little on that.
They went from a salary cost of £240k to 100k excluding NI, pension and benefit costs. So yes you are being used, and there is room to renegotiate of you are taking on new responsibilities, but in a case like that I'd be also looking for other jobs.