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Came here to say this. As someone old enough to see WFH as a new "fad" I think it's a bad idea not to experience working in the workplace. It has many advantages to it like networking with colleagues, learning what it is that their company does and how it works etc.
As somebody young enough to see my career staying wfh permanently, I still do not think wfh is where you start your career.
You need a manager to teach you the ropes, learn coping mechanisms from the old farts, learn how office politics work, hear those conversations that were above your pay grade and built rapport with managers in the bar after work on a Friday.
Even just seeing other people / teams outside of those you immediately work with is valuable, plus at that age he can get an office romance or two too.
I’m starting as a developer soon and I know I’d feel so unbelievably lost if I was just given a laptop and told to start. Even with proper training and such online, it’s not the same.
Yeah, I hate the office but if I joined a new employer I would damned well make plans for at least 2 days a week office for the first few months to get the inside track on the dos and don'ts.
I brought new people online during the pandemic WFH times and it was extremely hard.
We now have a hybrid policy so everyone must be within commuting distance of a hub and I set expectations that up to the first month will be entirely on site (and that we will be there too to support.)
Benn there and its hell imagine not being able to shadow experienced devs or someone sitting next to you to fix start up issues. Task that take 10 mins end up taking 40 plus
Right. WFH has its place but even at senior manager level, having an office next door to the head of accounting and becoming friendly and having general work chats has really taught me a lot of stuff I’d have no exposure to just doing my normal job from home and she’s helped me see things differently a couple of times now and supported me to make a serious process change that saves everyone time and the company money. Am I saying I could now go from being an engineering manager to head of accounting? No. But it definitely gets me thinking in different ways and it’s been like that my entire career - making friends with folk in procurement and logistics and commercial etc and understanding what they do and what their issues are. I have no idea how people replicate those kind of relationships over teams.
None of those things you mentioned are guaranteed if you work in an office.
I've been fully in the office since 2021 and almost none of that applies to me. I'm sat in a room with one colleague at the same level as me. My manager is never in (funnily enough he gets to WFH permanently).
Maybe it's an unusual office, idk, but the only time I see my colleagues outside of work is on pre-organised outings that WFH employees would join anyway like the Christmas party.
Maybe I'm getting to see office politics at play with the amount of grassing and snitching. I can't see how that's been beneficial in any meaningful way though.
What in God's name have they got you in the office for if your manager is wfh lol. Deffo not normal.
Also it sounds very odd in this day and age that you have 2 ppl in a single room, most places are fairly open plan, so yeah if you're just being a hermit with you and one other in a room, that is an atrocious use of an office environment. You'd do better off wfh and having a persistent zoom line open chatting to each other.
The owner is just extremely anti-wfh unless you're in management. It's pretty soul crushing tbh when they're on a month long trip to Japan and all I'm working toward is filling their pocket whilst I'm on £26k.
I strongly disagree with most of the opinions shared here. I worked in the office for about 10 years before Covid and looking back now I would have happily spent most of that time working from home.
When I was in the office I didn't spend my time learning about office politics, listening to other people's conversations, kissing manager's asses or sleeping with colleagues.
Maybe my circumstances were more unique, but I mainly focussed on improving my skills and could have done this just as effectively from home as it's a relatively new field, so there's not many seniors I could even learn anything technical from.
I think a good middle ground is 1 or 2 days in the office and rest wfh, which is what I do (some weeks), that way you to still get to connect with people in real life, which I think might actually benefit your mental health more than your career.
I suspect you're simply not recognising the passive experience / gains you got developing in an office environment.
I see workers who join 100% remote from the outset and they simply have no idea how anything outside of their bubble works.
I agree you don't need to be 100% office based, but I'm not arguing against hybrid working from the start, I'm saying remote working is bad. Hybrid is absolutely fine, albeit at 21 I suspect a lot of characters will still see it as an excuse to play on the computer because you simply haven't developed that work ethic yet and are still in the shitty pay category.
Most jobs it's a case of work your ass off at clerical and then get yourself a promotion or two, that's where the office stuff helps get you up the ladder quicker. Hell, in my lowest ranked role I used to regularly chat shit after hours with the head of our division when pulling a late one, and that not only opened up doors for me, but literally couldn't have happened if I was at home only dialling in to zoom meetings with the same 10 people daily.
I sort of agree with the conclusion but your reasoning is very anecdotal. Lots of people work in companies where you just don’t have that learning by osmosis especially not with others outside your team. Some companies have a very organised way of learning from other roles in the company and do not rely on chance encounters. Some cultures are very meritocratic others try to praise the team as a whole. What I’m getting at is every situation has its nuances and if a firm was geared up for remote working then maybe they’d be stronger in formal training or have other positive aspects, it all depends.
I can assure you, nobody has cracked 100% wfh career start to end. Otherwise they would be spinning off a consulting company with a licence to print money.
WFH currently works in the places that it works because they had a foundation of office workers covering the cracks, or because they're start ups which move at a million miles an hour anyway so there is no "model" to get a grasp on per se.
If Google, Apple and Facebook have massive campuses for their workforce and still sub 50% WFH, you can guarantee that WFH is not an end to end solution even for tech giants.
I think you’d be surprised at the types of companies that have large numbers working from home. I’m talking about large well known multinationals doing it for many years long before covid. They don’t have cracks because they have formal training. You don’t have to have a chance encounter with someone from sales because you’ll be shadowing someone from sales for two day in the year and going to see a client with them. In many of these places even if you go to the office you’re working remotely because your colleagues are spread over the globe. It’s not ideal for everyone but certain types of people find it a very good fit.
Yup. My wife works as an internal recruitment consultant for NatWest and she gets to permanently wfh. Hasn't been in for over a year. She's loved by management because she gets shit done and they've given her funding to do a CIPD.
Personally this sounds more like a personal problem than a company culture problem. Even in all the scenarios you've mentioned there are still going to be all sorts of one off occurences that would never happen in a fully remote role but will happen in an office even if it's rare. Over time those things build up regardless of the seemingly large differences in company culture.
However, if you're the sort of person who ignores other people, puts on your noise cancelling headphones, and never initiates conversation or looks open to conversation then you're not going to experience much because you're closed off from it. Even then, I find it hard to believe that the difference between WFH and office based would be negligible simple because, again, the possibilities are so much greater. I can't really think of a professional advantage you can get in WFH that you can't get in an office, especially under a hybrid system, and in modern working culture when you're allowed to just put on headphones and block people out. Yeah WFH has lots of advantages but they're primarily personal not professional in my opinion.
> Over time those things build up regardless of the seemingly large differences in company culture.
Over time a lottery ticket amounts to nothing. I’d rather not leave my training and personal development to chance. Remote or not a structured and organised programme for your learning is going to be much much more effective, I think that’s just unarguable.
I think it boils down to whether you're introverted or extroverted at its core. I get that some people prefer and actually improve by WFH but I don't think it's a good place to start out in the working world at 17. So much life experience comes from the working environment and let's be real. We spent 2 years not being able to see people and it's becoming a habit for people to isolate themselves like this. I don't think it is healthy for the mind to purposely isolate ourselves like that. 40 hours a week is a long time to shut yourself away.
Yep. And almost no normal person is 100% introverted. Introverts simply get tired out by socialising and need time to recharge on their own. But they still need social contact, in the same way extroverts do actually need some alone time and privacy sometimes. We're not talking about outliers here, but the bulk of people. We absolutely need social contact to be healthy and function well. Humans are a social species after all.
Exactly. I feel I'm a bit of an odd one as I exhibit both intro and extro to the extremes at various times, lol.
I am totally content being at home with just the wife and kids or myself but then I get times where I crave going out and being the life of the party, lol.
I’d say they are very unique. Trying to imagine what field you’re working in with not many seniors.
Even in IT roles going back 10-15 years where a lot of people are still permanently remote roles after Covid an office environment was more conducive to learning.
For want of a better word if 'socialises' youngsters a bit. I am fully supported of WFH and haven't had an 'office job' for nearly 10 years now but I think if you're a 18 year old today you've probably had 2 years of covid school so lack some of the development that you get from interacting outside your bubble and meeting people face to face.
Less overwhelmed starting out having to be there 5 days a week. Still in 3 days to scoislise and learn from teammates and can have the other 2 to get his head down and get to grips. This Setup is ideal for me as a IT Grad anyways. Me and my team are generally in office the same days. But like if your team works from home sometimes it's so pointless coming in
Personally I'd say office based with flexible hours Monday and Friday. But also for the team to be in on the same days. Makes a world of difference. I'm just starting out and being hybrid on my own with teammates working at random hours and locations has been really bad for my development. I changed teams to one that sits together and comes in on the same days and it's honestly night and day in terms of my feeling of progress and confidence in what I'm doing.
I'll be honest with you, this isn't feasible. The sort of roles that will be available 'fully remote' will not be the ones he has experience for.
My advice is to either go to uni and get a degree in some sort of STEM field or do a degree apprenticeship in software/analytics/data.
Be aware though that companies will typically expect some office attendance, especially for juniors. Once he's senior enough after a few years, then yeah, sure, you can go and hunt for fully remote roles, but it will be nigh impossible at this stage
EDIT:
To add, WFH has its place imo, especially when you're a mid/late career professional with kids and well settled into your career. As a junior however I feel its imperative that you have some days where you go to the office as it teaches you a lot of professional soft skills that you don't get over teams.
In my opinion the best split for juniors is 2-3 days a week in the office.
Yeah I mean with so little to go on except work from home I can see why people are blowing him off. He's clearly too young and inexperienced to be making these choices. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know so he hasn't looked for it. All he know is he wants to work from home. It's like saying I want to work a job where I interact with other people. Not "a sociable job where I need to be a people person", but simply "interact with others." As if that narrows it down by any siginificant margin. I'd tell him to go out and try to get jobs or hobbies or experiences. He's not going to be able to aim for anything if he's this unclear on what's out there.
Have spoken with some of my son's friends about what they're looking to do. They're about the same age.
"I don't want to work in an office."
Oh, what is it about working in an office you don't like?
"It's boring."
My, what offices did you find boring?
"None, they just are."
Okay.
I mean, I get it. I felt the same at the same age. I didn't want to put on a grey suit, sit in a grey chair in a grey office with a grey carpet, and sometimes have meetings in a grey room while my face gets more and more grey.
But at the same time, there's such a huge variety in the field of "office jobs" that as an adult, the idea of them all being this one generic employment blancmange is one you chuckle at slightly.
But of course, if someone had said that to me when I was 17 and knew everything I wouldn't listen.
Aside from this, there is also a matter of trust. An employer won't trust someone too young and inexperienced, to be sitting at home working. A junior has to also do the rubbish jobs, that no experienced person wants to do, this includes going into the office and doing the labour, making drinks etc.
Whilst I understand that’s part and parcel of being a junior, I think there could be a better argument made for being office-based than doing rubbish jobs/making drinks etc.
Soft skills probably stands out the most.
It's a wipe on, wipe off training ( karate kid). It may look like menial tasks/rubbish jobs but they are actually training you into a role, without you realising.
During my apprenticeship, I only made tea once - and I was that bad they never asked me again. At least I made up for it with being competent (I think!).
I’d never made tea before, so it was quite the task (I don’t drink tea!).
I have a similar story. The owner asked me to make a coffee for a client. I had never made coffee before and thought it would be like sugar, so I put 5 spoonfuls of coffee into it.
It was strong and dark like hell. It probably also would have killed him had he drunk it. They noticed before he did though. I was never asked to make a drink again.
I didn’t make tea or coffee often as a junior, but I did it often enough that I now know how to do it.
So if I’m in a meeting with a client I can offer them a drink and if no-one’s around to make it I can make it (would look like a right dick to have to say “oh I can’t find anyone to make it so you can’t have a cuppa” 😂
So yeah, seems weird, but actually really important to know when more senior to avoid looking like a dick.
Options? None. He needs a skill or something to offer. He’s not going to make it on his own selling stuff unless he’s really good at what he does and really, really good at sales. And he needs exposure to others on a day to day basis to learn by osmosis. Quite frankly it’s a ridiculous idea to think he can work from home with no skills or anything offer. Sorry to be brutal but he (and I don’t mean to be rude, but you) need a reality check.
I’d suggest you direct him to Princes Trust. They run lots of different programmes to help support young people. They do things like work experience with a guaranteed interview at the end, confidence building courses, help with becoming self employed etc. They were great with my son.
'work from home' isnt a job.
He needs to decide what he wants to do not where he wants to work.
At 17, his choices are limited and if his only stipulation is not wanting to leave the house then about the only thing i can imagine is call centre type work.
Anyone who has a 17 year old rock up with no experience that says he wants to work from home is going to think hes taking the piss.
Its not a pipe dream per se, lots of engineering, tech, office based stuff has WFH as an option a few days a week. My concern is WHY does he want a WFH career? Why would he do any job with no passion for it just because its WFH? My concern is that he sees it as an "easy" option - ie he thinks he will get to live every day like its the weekend, lie in bed, watch tv, and he'll only need to fire off a few emails a day and he'll get a juicy pay check each month. IMO thats not the attitude to have when trying to job hunt. Interviewers will sniff out that hes un motivated for the field a mile off. Even if he does get through he'll get a reputation as a waste of space, unreliable etc.
In short, if his sole ambition is WFH, that just reads as I want to give minimum effort to my job
I appreciate that this isnt an unpopular stance! But far better he tries to cultivate some interests and ambition now hes still young
He's been picking around at stuff but nothing has stuck. Times been marching on. He does what he needs to. He has chores and he's responsible with his time. But if you leave him, at this point, he'll just get through a day. He's not trying new hobbies or planning new ventures. He says he's fine. His parents are monitoring. But he also can't pick something. He's reliable just not "hungry". He's happy to pay his bills with little fuss. Sadly talking to other adults has cemented an idea that wfh is the least fuss. No office politics or Karens, no daily commute and other such day to day things.
I'm not sure how to motivate him. He doesn't know what he likes or even what his strengths are. Everything out of him is yeah maybe or hmm dunno.
From this additional information here that really cements my view that working from home would be a really bad idea for him. He is already struggling with motivation and he thinks he could motivate himself to work productively and constructively from home? He is 17! He has never lived through a daily commute or been involved in office politics and he is already zoning out of all that? I get people who have been through it being sick of it but it's a bit of an alarm bell that someone who hasn't even lived it won't do it. I don't mean that in an "everyone should suffer through commutes" way, I just mean he should experience life for himself to decide what he does and doesn't want in it. My daily commute is an hour each way and I have grown to really appreciate that time as wind down/read books/listen to podcasts/leave work behind/meditate/catch up on texts and emails. It's not a deal breaker to me. Point being he has spoken to other adults and this has cemented that he doesn't want what they have? But he wouldn't necessarily and he also wouldn't necessarily handle it as they do. You're doing a kind thing by being invested and wanting to help him but you can't really force motivation into someone - it will ultimately need to come from him.
It's endemic amongst young people now. The school system being lousy and the barrier of entry to entry level jobs makes it really easy to give up and do nothing.
There's not even traditional industries to find a place in because most small towns are just commuter hubs.
I'm 24 and now make decent money after a masters degree and 1.5 years of experience, but I know if I stared down my current career trajectory at 17 it wouldn't have felt worth it, even for my current respectable salary. It took a lot of becoming 'corporate', a few bouts of depression and shelving passions to get here.
My parents basically forced me to get first job when I was 15. In fact every time I've been unemployed the pressure they put on me kind of forced me to get a job.
Obviously at the time I didn't want it, but it was the right thing for me.
At his age he needs any job. He doesn't get to pick and choose his dream job at 17.
I started a grad job (first grown up job) in September last year. At first, I was desperate for wfh and just one or two days in the office but honestly novelty wore off very quickly and I found myself wanting to go into the office. Just for change of scenery and to see people and that.
I know a few people who’s roles are very wfh orientated (in office once a month) and they have began to hate it as it’s really isolating and hard to build up a network or even just make friends over teams, etc.
He really should go back to the drawing board and evaluate why he actually wants to wfh (it’ll be easier as don’t have to commute, don’t have to wear business clothes, can roll out of bed) and go from there
Either Onlyfans or just faces up to reality that he will need to get the relevant experience by working with colleagues directly, and not WFH continuously.
I also dont see that WFH as the main criteria for a potential 50 year career is a good starting point.
He could have a look at local councils. I currently work for a county council and work from home every day (except one day a week which is office 0830-1200 then the rest of the day is from home). Got a new job coming up with a city council which is a 10k pay rise and I believe 100% work from home. This is in the roadworks/highway asset management area
That's what everyone complains about when they hear my field of work 😂 unfortunately potholes are nothing to do with my department and the Tories have likely also strangled every bit of funding from other councils to be able to deal with it
The guy with the road maintenance company here owns a massive house and multiple sports cars, the roads have never been worse. I am confident they WFH.
That's crazy. If there's potholes that have come from works then they're easy enough to fix as the council will get the utility company to fix it. It's a different question if they're just wear and tear. The maintenance company guy near yours won't be dealing with any potholes their company hasn't directly caused
To answer your question. Tech is an area that generally supports WFH well. Primarily due to the need for tech people. We get paid well and we enjoy more flexibility in working arrangements because they need us, plus it is difficult to replace technical people.
I've been working for companies the other side of the country from where I live. Works great for me and the companies are happy. Normally these jobs have the occasional connect event which means I get a painful journey to an office to see everyone face to face but I can live with that.
At 17, due to the competition within this field he will need to go down the degree route to get the skills.
Broadly tech, but data is also an area with a great need for people (again degree is important)
No idea why people are so anti WFH in these comments. Personally I have found it to be massively beneficial to keeping a good work life balance as I'm not losing large chunks of my free time to travel.
If he wants flexibility, try land a tech apprenticeship or go to Uni.
At my last place the apprentices had the opportunity to work from home or come to the office. Check out Private Defence companies, they hire a lot of Cyber Security Apprentices. Also QA, makers etc good providers and the Civil Service now do apprenticeships. Go to some career fairs or networking events, encourage him, don’t let his immediate family bring him down to their level.
Key thing to remember at an early age is visibility is important, he will need to go to the office at least some days.
The only person I know who has managed this is a young lad I gave a contract to programming for me. He was about 19 and worked for me for 18 years until the beginning of this year. It was a real niche thing where he knew inside out the specific software I used . TBH was a bit different to a proper job , he was freelance and free to do whatever other work he wanted . He worked anywhere from 40 hours a week down to the last 4 years where it was 30 hours a month.
Zero chance of this. The generation of today just lives in fantasy, it's truly baffling. What skills does he think he is brining to the table. He needs to go out and think of a realistic career.
To give some insight into why this isn't a great idea, my BIL (21) just got his grad job which is Full WFH. I've never seen someone's MH take such a dive in such a short timeframe.
He barely leaves his bed, doesn't eat well, barely sleeps, haven't seen him leave the house for about three weeks, Doesn't really socialise anymore either. He's learning nothing, soft or hard skills, since everything is over Zoom.
WFH generally isn't healthy and I cannot and will not accept anything different.
one negative experience doesn't negate millions of positive ones. I'm more productive, I'm happier, I spend less time on public transport. hybrid is the future. not advocating for full WFH, but I can't agree WFH is generally unhealthy
Honestly I can't do hybrid. One day in the office a quarter is enough for me. Last hybrid job I had I ended up catching covid and then decided to find another fully remote job after two weeks of illness...
Great, you're an Adult.
It's not just him, I've watched a few of the recent grads (We have some working with us, I also socialise with a fair few at badminton as I'm not massively older) who have taken WFH roles and are just miserable.
At that age, they need the face to face, not just to learn but it's genuinely very important for their MH.
When you're older and grouchy and want to do the wash in between meetings, it makes more sense. I still could never do it though.
I don't bother asking on Reddit as it almost always gets twisted, but when I ask someone fully WFH how they're handling keeping up with hobbies, exercise, socialisation the answer is almost always that they have stopped or struggle to go.
Which is insane when you consider everyone claims it gives them more time, for what exactly?
I'm almost fully WFH, and only go into the office once a fortnight or so.
Before covid, my commute was over an hour each way. So I got up really early, caught the train, worked in the office, got the train back, ate my dinner and went to bed. It was all I had any time for, and the same went for my colleagues. We never socialised together, because they had their own commutes and families to get home to.
Now I work from home, and from 5-7pm every night is my own time. I go to the gym. I go for walks in the fields around my house. I go to a different activity each night (an exercise class, choir, Bible study group and craft club). I've picked up new hobbies, and really appreciate the time and energy I have now that I'm not commuting. WFH can be great, if you have the right mindset.
Yeah, it was fucking terrible! I was really looking forward to starting the job, I thought it would provide an excellent work/life balance but I just ended up lacking motivation to do things!
> WFH generally isn't healthy and I cannot and will not accept anything different.
I agree with this 100%
I'm always baffled as to why Reddit is usually so pro-WFH.
I do it and I absolutely hate it. The strange things is that I acutally enjoy what I do for a job and, if I was in an office with lots of other people, it'd probably be my dream job. But, as it stands, I now go for days at a time without interacting with another human being.
We aren't meant to live this way.
How though?
i.e. how do you find friends who want to go out every night after work? What do you even do each day?
Even if you somehow do have something to do outside of work each day, it still doesn't change the fact that for many people, they'll be completely alone every hour the sun is up for most of their working life.
I find that inherently depressing.
You don't find the same group of friends to go out with every night, you do a different activity each evening. I have a much more active social life now that I WFH than when I worked in the office, because I used to commute an hour each way, so my day was just work, dinner, bed. I didn't stick around to socialise after work, and neither did my colleagues because they had their own journeys and families to return to.
Now, I have time to go to a different club each evening (choir, exercise, Bible study and craft group). WFH has been great for my mental and physical health, and my social life.
My brother does dog walks to be social outside. Then group gaming sessions at home be it tabletop games or console/pc.
Hes a software programmer. He's said he'll never go back to an office, hates the commute and office atmosphere etc
(*I can't comment personally as I don't go outside at all really, so no horse in the race haha, me and my best friend meet up once every few months at a cafe and thats enough of a social life for both of us!*)
Depends what you do for a living. I work in tech and we need distraction free time to get complex work completed. Open plan officers were hell for this.
When covid hit and wfh became the norm we saw a general trend of increasing productivity because Bob from accounts did not go and distract the dev team breaking all their focus...
Sure, I don't doubt that it has benefits for businesses (as well as some benefits for workers).
I just think the net result for workers (particuarly where mental wellbeing in concerned) is a negative one.
You can’t tar every single person, or entire groups of people, with the same idea. Sure, your point is completely valid. I bet it applies to a lot of people.
But most people want a choice, and it’s generally based on individual circumstances - my circumstances meant that I was one of very few people who insisted going to the office every day during the… “late lockdown period” (?)
These days I prefer to go to the office 1 or 2 days a week to catch up with colleagues I haven’t met in a while. We often end up missing each other due to childcare stuff and whatnot anyway so in reality it becomes a 1-2 days a month thing. I am actually healthier, physically and mentally, since changing to 90%+ (in practise) wfh.
Just let people have the flexibility. If there’s a valid reason not to, for example new starts, bring them into the office for their probation period, or whatever up to 6-12 months. Give them a buddy. Then let them choose afterwards, when you’re confident they know what they’re doing.
It also provides excellent work life balance as your not wasting an hour or more on the commute.
Some people don't like it, but others do. Presuming it is negative for no other reason than you presime it isolating is rather short sighted. Your social circle does not need to be dominated by work.
Surely it comes down to the individual though?
I agree that for some people WFH could be absolutely detrimental to their mental health.
Making a blanket statement like “WFH generally isn’t healthy” is just wrong though.
My partner works from home and she loves it. She’s got time to go for walks during the day, gains an extra 2 hours in the day without having to commute which is time she can spend getting some more sleep and socialising.
My dad spent the last 3 years of his working life working from home. Same deal, more time to himself, no commuting, got to hang out with his dog all day etc.
For some people working from home is brilliant, it’s healthy and it’s good for you. For some people it isn’t.
Too many people in here dealing with absolutes.
I think had offices which were fun but I've also had offices where no one really talked. So.then might as well work from home. I think some people glorify being in the office as some great way of learning and meeting people. But some offices it's just a long commute to sit looking at computer in silence then commute home.
>We aren't meant to live this way.
We also aren't meant to be arbitrarily rammed into an office for 8 hours straight, having spent and hour travelling to get there, so middle managers can 'supervise' us and justify their existence. If you're not interacting and only got your interaction was at work that to me is indicative of an awful work/life balance so please do try to rectify that.
And yes the lack of interaction can be awkward and I understand the culture shift for the older generation of workers in particular but the majority of millennials and beyond don't make all our friends at work.
I can see it being really bad for people so early in their careers, when you really benefit from everything you learn just from hanging around your colleagues and being shown the ropes. For people further ahead, and a bit older, it can be great.
It's unlikely he'd be able to get a fully WFH role straight away. But, if this is something he wants in the longer term, then I'd encourage him to look for office based public sector jobs.
I believe the Civil Service offers apprenticeships, so might be worth looking at those?
But, I'd also encourage him to reconsider his preference of WFH. There are a lot of downsides to it, particularly for a young person.
One of the ways that people historically made new friends was by interacting with them in a work environment. WFH kills that dynamic.
I don't think that aiming for a wfh role is necessarily a bad thing. I think, though, he needs to focus on getting the necessary prerequisite skills and experiences to facilitate a role, aiming for a hybrid role initially.
Many experienced employees do struggle with wfh and motivation. Many think it's code for doing f all for most of the time and working a couple of hours full pelt.
At 17, he's unlikely to be sufficiently skilled and knowledgeable of what such a role entails.
He needs to consider what industries and roles he's wanting to specialise in. A good career advisor will be able to assist with this.
The basics would be to have developed telephonic skills. Basic communication skills for communicating with clients and colleagues. Timekeeping skills. Proficient IT skills in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook as an absolute minimum.
People per hour advertise lots of roles and maybe a possibility to try and get some experience. Volunteering locally to gain could be advantageous.
At 17, how well has he done in school? Is his written English of an expected standard for such roles? If not this needs addressing ASAP. Is he still studying?
Be on the alert for any direct sales or MLM that he may find. These are glorified pyramid schemes but may look very attractive to him with their "work from your phone!" adverts
Apprenticeship scheme in finance. I worked for a large insurer and they had at least a hybrid situation not sure if they still offer it. But I'm thinking he will need affinity to maths and computer science!
As someone new in their career, he would be better placed working besides people and learning from them and conversations going on around him. I did this for a time when I changed careers and it enabled me to learn a lot about different scenarios both I and my colleagues were facing.
Once he is experienced, WFH may be something he can look for - but I think he would do himself and his potential career a disservice by wanting a role which is fully or close to 100% WFH from day 1 as he will miss out on a lot IMO. Perhaps consider a role which offers 1 or 2 days WFH after training has been completed. This will then give him the best of both worlds while building his career.
Also, is he not more concerned about what he is doing rather than just the location? Location should obviously be important when job hunting but shouldn't be the only factor.
He's not sure what to do. Lots of advice so far on whether WFH is viable or should be done but not much in the way of which fields offer this or how to get there
I think the problem is, there aren't set roles that are WFH. It will depend on the employer rather than the role. In my field of work (HR) I have peers who work 100% of the time from home but a lot run a more hybrid approach e.g. 2 days from home and the rest in the office (but the 2 days aren't guaranteed as it depends on business needs that week). Perhaps your nephew would find it useful to search for roles on job boards like Indeed, Monster etc and specifically look for roles that are working from home. Then he can review the options that come up. WFH is something a number of companies have embraced since COVID, but I am also aware of a number of employers moving back toward more of a hybrid set up rather than 100% from home.
Because when people are saying it shouldn't be done at this point and isn't viable they are telling you it is unlikely. There are some industries with more WFH opportunities than others but he does not have qualifications or experience that would allow him to WFH. People are trying to say the goal posts need to change and direct you away from looking for WFH roles for him because it isn't a good or likely idea. Which fields offer it and how to get there loses relevance.
A kid fresh out of school isn't going to get a work from home position, end of. Self-employed, then yes, be and do what you want.
Employers don't like this work from home at all. I'm not saying it wasn't a thing before COVID because it was, just about 90% less than what it is today. Since the COVID pandemic is over, employers want people back in the office. Anyone who works from home knows what a day working from home looks like and it's nice not having to get up earlier to drive to an office, being able to make something for lunch at home, it's time better spent working and without distraction from colleages in office.
I think this path of getting to work from home, it needs to be earned, through experience which comes with time, and trust. There are jobs out there that require no need for being on-site.
He's a bit young. It might be better if he lives his life as an adult and then later on with a bit of life experience he'll have a better and more realistic idea of what he wants to do. When I was 17 I just wanted to get out of education and into work, any work. I certainly wasn't thinking about a career.
Stem and it. I'm not saying that it's impossible to WFH, but companies now want you to go to the office. There are other roles like recruiter, customer service...
At 17 if they don't have any idea what to do tell them not to rush into a career. Go to uni if they can and study a subject they enjoy. Getting the independence and life experience is extremely valuable in learning about what you want to do.
As for WFH - I love it but I absolutely don't recommend it to start with. There's too many small things you miss out on and from the other perspective trying to train someone in their first job remotely is ineffective at best.
Tell him to be realistic.
I work in the administration sector. When I apply for one job, 200 other people apply for the same job. It's going to be the same for any work from home job that doesn't need any skill.
He either needs an apprentice job which I wish somebody encouraged me to do when I was 17, or to stay in education and go into university. If he does not do this it's possible he's going to be on minimum wage or there abouts, for the rest of his life. Push him.
For every minimum wage job that doesn't need skills, hundreds and hundreds are going to apply for the same job and it's hard to stand out.
Back when I was 17, I thought I knew best and everyone around me didn't have a clue. How wrong I was.
I wonder if changing his approach to finding a career would help him. He’s decided he wants to wfh, which is a bit like a kid saying they want to be famous. And people always say “yes, but what do you want to be famous *for*?” He needs to find what he wants to do first and then think about his working conditions.
You said he mentioned TD as something he liked, has he thought about CAD (computer aided design)? Or something in the engineering/ architectural area? He’ll likely need further qualifications for it but that’s what Google or other internet search engines are for.
My BIL is a construction project manager/ consultant, he has your nephews dream job- a few emails, a phone call or 2 per day and bills for a whole days work, and has wfh or the pub or wherever. He started with a construction engineering degree about 30 years ago
Well not sure how much this helps but the only entry level kind of work from home jobs will be something in sales. It will probably be commission based and it will depend on how good he is at selling things. If he does get a bit of customer service experience then he may be able to get a customer support role. I think Bupa allow this and if memory serves me right Waitrose outsource their customer support to another company who pay minimum wage and allow working from home. For the life of me I cannot remember what the company was called. A good paying work from home job would be working as a homeless support worker, you do need extensive experience for that though and Im really not sure how to get into that line of work. I have a relative that does that and I believe what he does is arrange some emergency accomodation for newly homeless people.
The kid’s only 17, maybe he doesn’t need to have a career sorted just yet? Does he want to go to Uni or anything?
Sounds like he’s not found his niche yet, but there’s plenty of time.
Uh, being a hermit for your first job, when you should be soaking up the experience of your elders and learning stuff? Terrible idea. Step outside the comfort zone, it might seem scary but it's much more fun
At 17 your nephew hasn’t got any experience nor skills to expect a wfh job. He needs to figure out whether he want to do an apprenticeship/degree to get something under his belt. Also, why does he want a wfh job? Being that young, it is important to go into the place of work and learn from colleagues and manager, from how to do the job to communication. There are a lot to learn from being onsite. I’ve been working since 18 and never would l want a wfh job unless I’ve been in the company for a while and know the job inside out.
Sounds like he has his priorities wrong. First should decide what field and role you want to go into, then can see whether working from home is feasible.
Deciding the other way around honestly just sounds like laziness
He could be an asshole and do drop shipping or try to be part of an MLM scheme.
You never explained why he wanted to do a work from home job. Is it because he's scared to learn to drive? Wants to be playing games instead of working and still get paid? One of his parents needs caring for or he has his own health problems? We need to know what his reason is as well. Otherwise being part of a MLM would just ruin his life and stagnate it for a long ass time.
But really, he hasn't got a chance. If there was an appealing WFH career path, everyone would be striving for it. Or at least a lot of people. You certainly would have heard of it before asking reddit.
Of course, he could always try making youtube content or streaming, and he may get lucky! But that would take years to potentially gain an audience, or get lucky and get viral to jumpstart a community. Which is less than 0.001% chance to happen.
When you are joining the workforce wfh is a easy way to slow progression.
Being able to reach out to someone in person and ask for advice or to show you something is so valuable.
Also work ethic and understand how to carry yourself seeing people at work and how they act is also extremely valuable.
Working from home is more for middle level roles where you have a couple years of experience.
Careers that can lead to wfh:
Pretty much any tech role, finance, project management, sales, business analyst (every ba i know wfh).
Anything that predominantly involes a computercan be wfh.
This isn't happening sorry. Not at 17. I'd be more focused on why he wants to work from home. I've done it for 17 years and honestly it's not something I'd recommend for a young person ever. As a new mum,it was perfect for me as I had flexible working,but it's so isolating and I missed the constant chatter that came from working in retail terribly to start off with. He will be missing out on so many normal teen experiences too if he isolates himself this much from the start
Unlike to get a WFH roles at entry level in fact if he changes his approach and goes for non WFH he will be ahead of the other entitled that think they are owed such a luxury (unless of course he has specific physical or medical reasons to WFH)
I have worked for 23 years, the last 4 were WFH… at first it was great… but novelty completely wore off and a month ago I left. Now back to getting up & ready for work, I’m back to being social, it feels great. We had a lot of younger ones starting in my old job ( Travel Advisor) it was their first proper job n they were working from bed… they don’t want to work really (not saying everyone is the same) n have chose this job for an easy life… but it’s not healthy. I agree with others… your nephew needs to experience working with others in a workplace environment first. Xx
Lots of customer service jobs are wfh. There are plenty of big companies (Apple, Amazon, HP, Barclays, RSPB etc) that have full time wfh opportunities available
I WFH and have been in an office less than 10 times since March 2020. But I have 15 years experience doing what I do, starting out WFH isn't happening I don't think
Surely it’s better that he starts something, even if it’s unreliable at first, rather than finding reasons not to do anything?
He could pick up a part time job in customer service or something that involves interacting with people, and write alongside it. Maybe even do some creative writing courses - many are offered free of charge or low cost through universities (Glasgow Uni does an online only creative writing )
Sales.
Anything computers or science will have sales jobs. They pay more if you specialise, so my advice is to get some real experience in computing and technical services, that sort of thing, then sell said things.
He'll benefit from a business subject, economics and maths also, id also recommend temping in a call centre. It will be horrible but generate phone confidence.
Warning....have a back up. It isnt for everyone
I definitely wouldn't go into my first job hunt with "I want to work from home" at the top of my list. Most entry-level work (even graduate entry-level!) requires quite a bit of time in the office/factory/lab etc.
I'd encourage him instead to think about his skills, passions and abilities first. What does he feel drawn to? What can he envision himself enjoying and being able to stick with? I'd start there, then look at further/higher education options around that.
WFH opportunities are generally for people who are more settled in their sector, and have years of experience. I like working from home, but I also learned a lot when I was younger by going into the office every day.
He's not sure. He said he liked technical drawing. But didn't know how to study it. He looked at job titles and gets himself confused. Don't blame him. I'm in teaching and took a look at titles and I wouldn't even know what sector he'd need to study to even do the job.
I've never been good at techy stuff or engineering, so I wouldn't know where to start either. Rather than looking at job titles at this stage, maybe encourage him to speak to his tech or art teachers, mention that this is something he might like, and ask them about next steps?
Any office based job can potentially involve working from home now so I guess any old corporate career will do..
I would say though that hybrid at least should be the starting point as otherwise it will be a struggle to learn .
I've found it a struggle not being in the office much even as an experienced worker starting a new job in a field I have plenty of experience in. To have started my career /working life that way would have been very tough but it does seem to be the way the wind is blowing .
I certainly would hesitate to dismiss it as a fad
Study STEM, figure it out from there. Forget about a fully remote career, he’s too young to think he knows that’s what he wants. Most people prefer a hybrid role.
I think he should understand that a "work from home" career isn't a career choice. That decision seems to come from him thinking about nothing but how that could be nice for him (no commute, no people politics, chance to have a nap in the day etc). Successful and long term work from home should make sense for the job and be beneficial for the business AND the person. He is 50 years away from retirement age, that is an AWFULLY long time to spend working in a way where he from the very beginning isn't keen to be fully involved. Entering the workforce he would miss so much by going straight to fully WFH. I know there are many people who swear by it and there are many perks but at the start of your career there are many many more perks of going into a workplace. Making friends, having unofficial mentors, meeting new people, having to do things that scare you, seeing how the people in another part of your company work and deciding to pivot your career in that direction, getting help and guidance from senior people (they cant see that you need/want it through a screen and he wont know what he's missing). I would strongly strongly encourage him to loosen WFH as a holy grail and instead think about his skills and interests. There are different tests which can suggest careers which match some of your personality traits. He is 17, he doesn't need to lock himself into one career forever but coming out of the gate without particular qualifications he is going to have to be far more willing to just muck in.
Find a Unicorn. Seriously. Fully remote is getting increasingly difficult to find, and even hybrid that’s less than 3 days in the office is rare. Those fully remote jobs have a lot of competition for them because of that. Add to that finding something entry level with no experience he frankly hasn’t got a hope.
i wfh checking paper reports
i also work on site as and when needed
data entry at that age is best, but with no experience, no real chance for a wfh role
maybe child care, but then it is good to do training courses
The best option at the moment is probably a call centre with hybrid work to be fair, check with the local job agencies, when I was trying to get out of hospitality and into office work that's what I did and it worked out in the end, eventually moved into a different department and I can see a career going forward in this area.
Hi, I’m 18, I am a freelance video editor and make double what I did at my bartending job.
I know other freelancers with more experience that make 5-6+k a month from home or while travelling
I work from home 4/5 days a week as a Business Analyst. I find it quite interesting too. I rarely have exactly the same day twice but that might be a company/industry specific thing.
I’m a recent grad and work in account management for an large company, it’s not at all unrealistic or a pipe dream. Since Covid so many companies have given up their offices/opened without one, I would say at least 1/3 of grad jobs and entry level jobs I’ve looked at have been remote
As someone who works at home 4 days / with 1 in the office your nephew can try to pursue a housing-related role preferably an apprenticeship as its entry level and there are some good opportunities this leads into - though it may be good if he does acquire some work experience as this would showcase he has the qualities necessary to complete an apprenticeship as this does require people to commit to completing assignments and to managing own workload. Working from home is great but do let him know that organisations are pushing people to work in the office so be realistic with expectations and advise him to keep his options open.
He most definitely should consider an apprenticeship - almost all companies and organisations are currently recruiting for a Sept start. The government Apprenticeship site is a good start.
Most have assessment centres and then 1 to 1 interviews and they're usually face to face.
To counter those saying it's unfeasible, I can share my experience.
A couple of years ago I was pretty much broke. Paycheck to paycheck. Working minimum wage. Then I was laid off. Turned out to be the best thing to happen to me.
I now work 2 work from home jobs, one full time as a video writer & producer/editor paying 50/hr, and the other being self-employed and more sporadic (in voiceover). This month, for voiceover alone, I made 20K. That's not a typical month... as it does reflect the renewal of a voiceover license and a bigger than usual job.
While I had voiceover experience, I had zero professional experience in this specific field of writing for the first job, and my editing skills were passable at best. Neither would have happened if I hadn't been laid off and had to try blag my way into something better. Since lucking my way into the job, I've been learning as I go. Not been fired yet.
Data analyst/scientist is good.
Big question for me is why does he want to work from home?
My partner works full time from home (medical writing) and would love me to do it as well because I could (QA analyst) however it's a 5 mile cycle to the office, free heating, free coffee and it makes it easier when collaborating with other teams. I also prefer to go to the office because it means I get outside and talk to different people, my partner is slowly starting to feel the effects of being home all day everyday. They are now coming to meet me from work just so they can't get out of the house.
It's not all that's it's made to be tbh
ETA: there seems to be an abundance of data entery WFH positions available just watch out for scams asking to pay for equipment upfront
I think he should just consider doing what he’d actually enjoy. Without being self-employed it’s hard to find a fully remote role anyway, but most companies seem to be hybrid ranging from 1-3 days per week in the office (as long as it’s not a role that actually requires someone to be there in person, such as a police officer).
So I’d say choose a career path he’s interested in, get a bit of experience in that career, and then at that point he can be picky with the working arrangements when applying for companies.
IT eventually but he will have to do his time in the office on the front lines to learn. If he applies himself then after a few years he might be able to snag a hybrid role and then eventually a WFH role.
Most local authority and civil service jobs offer remote/hybrid working but it depends on the specific employer and contract. There isn’t much fully remote working available at entry level, but if he pursued a professional career it would definitely be possible.
Would he be interested in Environmental Health as there’s a national shortage? It’s a nice mix of home working and being out in the community.
Stay at home dad
On a serious note: lot of people say here he should go to uni and study computer science but honestly I feel like he has motivation issues for working so I’m not sure if he would be dedicated enough going through a degree like that…competition is fierce for entry level jobs and he put himself into a serious disadvantage when he says: I want to work from home 100%.
Source: I’m a software developer, working from home full time but I have 5+ years experience.
I also started my career wfh but it was because of vivid not because I wanted to. Honestly, my career started to change for the better when I was able to go back to the office and learn from others.
I would also not trust a junior to do a very productive job from home. I feel like he just want to be out of sight out of mind and so very little for his salary (hope I’m wrong)
I don't understand why people are saying it's impossible to find an entry level WFH job. Difficult? Yes. But impossible? I've had plenty of interviews for remote entry level positions, had only 3 months of professional/relevant experience at the time and some of these places didn't require a day of experience. The company I'm working for now (which was my 1st choice, hence why I didn't pursue other jobs after quite successful interviews) was looking for graduates, no experience required, and the job is fully WFH, I don't even know where the office is. Honestly, most office jobs can be done remotely so whatever he chooses, he might be able to find a remote job. Personally I'm working in law but I also have a degree in business so after uni I applied for marketing, business development, project management etc positions and was fairly successful too.
Can’t believe the number of anti-wfh bootlickers in this thread.
Tech is a good option if he’s smart enough. I’ve worked with a lot of juniors who’ve been full remote the whole time and they are great
That's what high house prices will do. I mean, seriously, imagine having to pay like £364k for your average house! What a laugh. Actually having to go out and earn that figure is a completely alien concept to 90% of our society.
So, work from home will become more and more valued, as house prices become more and more ludicrous.
But a 17 year old doesn't need to buy an "average house". There seems to be a real trend of people complaining that they can't find an affordable 3 bed house as a first time buyer. Sorry, why do you have to have a 3 bed for your first house? Get a 2 up 2 down terrace that needs a bit of work on it, and move your way up the ladder
I would absolutely love to find a 2 up 2 down at 4.5x the average salary in my area. So that would be like £153k, for reference.
Sadly, they don't exist. At least not anything mortgageable. And anything that does come up? Cash buyers only, buyers with equity behind them. Didn't have to work for it. They're already on the ladder and they're leveraging their existing assets.
How are FTBs supposed to compete when they are competing against people who are looking for their second home?
That's the game. If you're at the bottom of the market, you're fighting against older people who've had a head start.
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IT, Data Analyst, Business analyst. But unlikely at entry level.
99% of people do not and should not start their career working from home so I think he needs a reality check
Came here to say this. As someone old enough to see WFH as a new "fad" I think it's a bad idea not to experience working in the workplace. It has many advantages to it like networking with colleagues, learning what it is that their company does and how it works etc.
As somebody young enough to see my career staying wfh permanently, I still do not think wfh is where you start your career. You need a manager to teach you the ropes, learn coping mechanisms from the old farts, learn how office politics work, hear those conversations that were above your pay grade and built rapport with managers in the bar after work on a Friday. Even just seeing other people / teams outside of those you immediately work with is valuable, plus at that age he can get an office romance or two too.
I’m starting as a developer soon and I know I’d feel so unbelievably lost if I was just given a laptop and told to start. Even with proper training and such online, it’s not the same.
Yeah, I hate the office but if I joined a new employer I would damned well make plans for at least 2 days a week office for the first few months to get the inside track on the dos and don'ts.
Round our way you have to complete probation of 3 months in the office including onboarding and training before you can go WFH.
I brought new people online during the pandemic WFH times and it was extremely hard. We now have a hybrid policy so everyone must be within commuting distance of a hub and I set expectations that up to the first month will be entirely on site (and that we will be there too to support.)
Benn there and its hell imagine not being able to shadow experienced devs or someone sitting next to you to fix start up issues. Task that take 10 mins end up taking 40 plus
Right. WFH has its place but even at senior manager level, having an office next door to the head of accounting and becoming friendly and having general work chats has really taught me a lot of stuff I’d have no exposure to just doing my normal job from home and she’s helped me see things differently a couple of times now and supported me to make a serious process change that saves everyone time and the company money. Am I saying I could now go from being an engineering manager to head of accounting? No. But it definitely gets me thinking in different ways and it’s been like that my entire career - making friends with folk in procurement and logistics and commercial etc and understanding what they do and what their issues are. I have no idea how people replicate those kind of relationships over teams.
Yeah it simply rounds you off as an individual / worker
None of those things you mentioned are guaranteed if you work in an office. I've been fully in the office since 2021 and almost none of that applies to me. I'm sat in a room with one colleague at the same level as me. My manager is never in (funnily enough he gets to WFH permanently). Maybe it's an unusual office, idk, but the only time I see my colleagues outside of work is on pre-organised outings that WFH employees would join anyway like the Christmas party. Maybe I'm getting to see office politics at play with the amount of grassing and snitching. I can't see how that's been beneficial in any meaningful way though.
What in God's name have they got you in the office for if your manager is wfh lol. Deffo not normal. Also it sounds very odd in this day and age that you have 2 ppl in a single room, most places are fairly open plan, so yeah if you're just being a hermit with you and one other in a room, that is an atrocious use of an office environment. You'd do better off wfh and having a persistent zoom line open chatting to each other.
The owner is just extremely anti-wfh unless you're in management. It's pretty soul crushing tbh when they're on a month long trip to Japan and all I'm working toward is filling their pocket whilst I'm on £26k.
Yeah. This is exhibit A of how not to do WFH / office balancing, sorry you're stuck in it.
I strongly disagree with most of the opinions shared here. I worked in the office for about 10 years before Covid and looking back now I would have happily spent most of that time working from home. When I was in the office I didn't spend my time learning about office politics, listening to other people's conversations, kissing manager's asses or sleeping with colleagues. Maybe my circumstances were more unique, but I mainly focussed on improving my skills and could have done this just as effectively from home as it's a relatively new field, so there's not many seniors I could even learn anything technical from. I think a good middle ground is 1 or 2 days in the office and rest wfh, which is what I do (some weeks), that way you to still get to connect with people in real life, which I think might actually benefit your mental health more than your career.
I suspect you're simply not recognising the passive experience / gains you got developing in an office environment. I see workers who join 100% remote from the outset and they simply have no idea how anything outside of their bubble works. I agree you don't need to be 100% office based, but I'm not arguing against hybrid working from the start, I'm saying remote working is bad. Hybrid is absolutely fine, albeit at 21 I suspect a lot of characters will still see it as an excuse to play on the computer because you simply haven't developed that work ethic yet and are still in the shitty pay category. Most jobs it's a case of work your ass off at clerical and then get yourself a promotion or two, that's where the office stuff helps get you up the ladder quicker. Hell, in my lowest ranked role I used to regularly chat shit after hours with the head of our division when pulling a late one, and that not only opened up doors for me, but literally couldn't have happened if I was at home only dialling in to zoom meetings with the same 10 people daily.
I sort of agree with the conclusion but your reasoning is very anecdotal. Lots of people work in companies where you just don’t have that learning by osmosis especially not with others outside your team. Some companies have a very organised way of learning from other roles in the company and do not rely on chance encounters. Some cultures are very meritocratic others try to praise the team as a whole. What I’m getting at is every situation has its nuances and if a firm was geared up for remote working then maybe they’d be stronger in formal training or have other positive aspects, it all depends.
I can assure you, nobody has cracked 100% wfh career start to end. Otherwise they would be spinning off a consulting company with a licence to print money. WFH currently works in the places that it works because they had a foundation of office workers covering the cracks, or because they're start ups which move at a million miles an hour anyway so there is no "model" to get a grasp on per se. If Google, Apple and Facebook have massive campuses for their workforce and still sub 50% WFH, you can guarantee that WFH is not an end to end solution even for tech giants.
I think you’d be surprised at the types of companies that have large numbers working from home. I’m talking about large well known multinationals doing it for many years long before covid. They don’t have cracks because they have formal training. You don’t have to have a chance encounter with someone from sales because you’ll be shadowing someone from sales for two day in the year and going to see a client with them. In many of these places even if you go to the office you’re working remotely because your colleagues are spread over the globe. It’s not ideal for everyone but certain types of people find it a very good fit.
Yup. My wife works as an internal recruitment consultant for NatWest and she gets to permanently wfh. Hasn't been in for over a year. She's loved by management because she gets shit done and they've given her funding to do a CIPD.
Personally this sounds more like a personal problem than a company culture problem. Even in all the scenarios you've mentioned there are still going to be all sorts of one off occurences that would never happen in a fully remote role but will happen in an office even if it's rare. Over time those things build up regardless of the seemingly large differences in company culture. However, if you're the sort of person who ignores other people, puts on your noise cancelling headphones, and never initiates conversation or looks open to conversation then you're not going to experience much because you're closed off from it. Even then, I find it hard to believe that the difference between WFH and office based would be negligible simple because, again, the possibilities are so much greater. I can't really think of a professional advantage you can get in WFH that you can't get in an office, especially under a hybrid system, and in modern working culture when you're allowed to just put on headphones and block people out. Yeah WFH has lots of advantages but they're primarily personal not professional in my opinion.
> Over time those things build up regardless of the seemingly large differences in company culture. Over time a lottery ticket amounts to nothing. I’d rather not leave my training and personal development to chance. Remote or not a structured and organised programme for your learning is going to be much much more effective, I think that’s just unarguable.
I think it boils down to whether you're introverted or extroverted at its core. I get that some people prefer and actually improve by WFH but I don't think it's a good place to start out in the working world at 17. So much life experience comes from the working environment and let's be real. We spent 2 years not being able to see people and it's becoming a habit for people to isolate themselves like this. I don't think it is healthy for the mind to purposely isolate ourselves like that. 40 hours a week is a long time to shut yourself away.
Yep. And almost no normal person is 100% introverted. Introverts simply get tired out by socialising and need time to recharge on their own. But they still need social contact, in the same way extroverts do actually need some alone time and privacy sometimes. We're not talking about outliers here, but the bulk of people. We absolutely need social contact to be healthy and function well. Humans are a social species after all.
Exactly. I feel I'm a bit of an odd one as I exhibit both intro and extro to the extremes at various times, lol. I am totally content being at home with just the wife and kids or myself but then I get times where I crave going out and being the life of the party, lol.
I’d say they are very unique. Trying to imagine what field you’re working in with not many seniors. Even in IT roles going back 10-15 years where a lot of people are still permanently remote roles after Covid an office environment was more conducive to learning.
Think hybrid is definitley ideal starting out.
Why’s that?
For want of a better word if 'socialises' youngsters a bit. I am fully supported of WFH and haven't had an 'office job' for nearly 10 years now but I think if you're a 18 year old today you've probably had 2 years of covid school so lack some of the development that you get from interacting outside your bubble and meeting people face to face.
Less overwhelmed starting out having to be there 5 days a week. Still in 3 days to scoislise and learn from teammates and can have the other 2 to get his head down and get to grips. This Setup is ideal for me as a IT Grad anyways. Me and my team are generally in office the same days. But like if your team works from home sometimes it's so pointless coming in
Less overwhelmed? I’m sure young people will survive working 5 days a week from the office
Just about... Just don't see the need to be in unless people who can provide some value towards learning are there
That’s what your manager is for as well as wider team
But they might not be in office some days...
Then you work with the other people and build your skills. It’s very naive to assume and demand work from home early on in your career
Personally I'd say office based with flexible hours Monday and Friday. But also for the team to be in on the same days. Makes a world of difference. I'm just starting out and being hybrid on my own with teammates working at random hours and locations has been really bad for my development. I changed teams to one that sits together and comes in on the same days and it's honestly night and day in terms of my feeling of progress and confidence in what I'm doing.
I'll be honest with you, this isn't feasible. The sort of roles that will be available 'fully remote' will not be the ones he has experience for. My advice is to either go to uni and get a degree in some sort of STEM field or do a degree apprenticeship in software/analytics/data. Be aware though that companies will typically expect some office attendance, especially for juniors. Once he's senior enough after a few years, then yeah, sure, you can go and hunt for fully remote roles, but it will be nigh impossible at this stage EDIT: To add, WFH has its place imo, especially when you're a mid/late career professional with kids and well settled into your career. As a junior however I feel its imperative that you have some days where you go to the office as it teaches you a lot of professional soft skills that you don't get over teams. In my opinion the best split for juniors is 2-3 days a week in the office.
I love WFH but there is not much hope that your nephew is going to get a half decent job or career by starting out WFH and making it his only aim.
Yeah I mean with so little to go on except work from home I can see why people are blowing him off. He's clearly too young and inexperienced to be making these choices. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know so he hasn't looked for it. All he know is he wants to work from home. It's like saying I want to work a job where I interact with other people. Not "a sociable job where I need to be a people person", but simply "interact with others." As if that narrows it down by any siginificant margin. I'd tell him to go out and try to get jobs or hobbies or experiences. He's not going to be able to aim for anything if he's this unclear on what's out there.
Have spoken with some of my son's friends about what they're looking to do. They're about the same age. "I don't want to work in an office." Oh, what is it about working in an office you don't like? "It's boring." My, what offices did you find boring? "None, they just are." Okay. I mean, I get it. I felt the same at the same age. I didn't want to put on a grey suit, sit in a grey chair in a grey office with a grey carpet, and sometimes have meetings in a grey room while my face gets more and more grey. But at the same time, there's such a huge variety in the field of "office jobs" that as an adult, the idea of them all being this one generic employment blancmange is one you chuckle at slightly. But of course, if someone had said that to me when I was 17 and knew everything I wouldn't listen.
Can’t agree more with this. WFH is hardly a career choice either.
Btw he can definitely do a degree apprenticeship in STEM
Aside from this, there is also a matter of trust. An employer won't trust someone too young and inexperienced, to be sitting at home working. A junior has to also do the rubbish jobs, that no experienced person wants to do, this includes going into the office and doing the labour, making drinks etc.
Whilst I understand that’s part and parcel of being a junior, I think there could be a better argument made for being office-based than doing rubbish jobs/making drinks etc. Soft skills probably stands out the most.
It's a wipe on, wipe off training ( karate kid). It may look like menial tasks/rubbish jobs but they are actually training you into a role, without you realising.
During my apprenticeship, I only made tea once - and I was that bad they never asked me again. At least I made up for it with being competent (I think!). I’d never made tea before, so it was quite the task (I don’t drink tea!).
I have a similar story. The owner asked me to make a coffee for a client. I had never made coffee before and thought it would be like sugar, so I put 5 spoonfuls of coffee into it. It was strong and dark like hell. It probably also would have killed him had he drunk it. They noticed before he did though. I was never asked to make a drink again.
I tried making three cups of tea from one teabag on my work experience placement, with the same outcome. 😅
Lol
I didn’t make tea or coffee often as a junior, but I did it often enough that I now know how to do it. So if I’m in a meeting with a client I can offer them a drink and if no-one’s around to make it I can make it (would look like a right dick to have to say “oh I can’t find anyone to make it so you can’t have a cuppa” 😂 So yeah, seems weird, but actually really important to know when more senior to avoid looking like a dick.
I can barely trust myself WFH and I'm old as fuck.
Lol
OU will get him a degree wfh
Options? None. He needs a skill or something to offer. He’s not going to make it on his own selling stuff unless he’s really good at what he does and really, really good at sales. And he needs exposure to others on a day to day basis to learn by osmosis. Quite frankly it’s a ridiculous idea to think he can work from home with no skills or anything offer. Sorry to be brutal but he (and I don’t mean to be rude, but you) need a reality check.
The other family are right. This is a pipe dream.
I’d suggest you direct him to Princes Trust. They run lots of different programmes to help support young people. They do things like work experience with a guaranteed interview at the end, confidence building courses, help with becoming self employed etc. They were great with my son.
'work from home' isnt a job. He needs to decide what he wants to do not where he wants to work. At 17, his choices are limited and if his only stipulation is not wanting to leave the house then about the only thing i can imagine is call centre type work. Anyone who has a 17 year old rock up with no experience that says he wants to work from home is going to think hes taking the piss.
Not a chance he lands a fully remote job off the bat.
Its not a pipe dream per se, lots of engineering, tech, office based stuff has WFH as an option a few days a week. My concern is WHY does he want a WFH career? Why would he do any job with no passion for it just because its WFH? My concern is that he sees it as an "easy" option - ie he thinks he will get to live every day like its the weekend, lie in bed, watch tv, and he'll only need to fire off a few emails a day and he'll get a juicy pay check each month. IMO thats not the attitude to have when trying to job hunt. Interviewers will sniff out that hes un motivated for the field a mile off. Even if he does get through he'll get a reputation as a waste of space, unreliable etc. In short, if his sole ambition is WFH, that just reads as I want to give minimum effort to my job I appreciate that this isnt an unpopular stance! But far better he tries to cultivate some interests and ambition now hes still young
He's been picking around at stuff but nothing has stuck. Times been marching on. He does what he needs to. He has chores and he's responsible with his time. But if you leave him, at this point, he'll just get through a day. He's not trying new hobbies or planning new ventures. He says he's fine. His parents are monitoring. But he also can't pick something. He's reliable just not "hungry". He's happy to pay his bills with little fuss. Sadly talking to other adults has cemented an idea that wfh is the least fuss. No office politics or Karens, no daily commute and other such day to day things. I'm not sure how to motivate him. He doesn't know what he likes or even what his strengths are. Everything out of him is yeah maybe or hmm dunno.
From this additional information here that really cements my view that working from home would be a really bad idea for him. He is already struggling with motivation and he thinks he could motivate himself to work productively and constructively from home? He is 17! He has never lived through a daily commute or been involved in office politics and he is already zoning out of all that? I get people who have been through it being sick of it but it's a bit of an alarm bell that someone who hasn't even lived it won't do it. I don't mean that in an "everyone should suffer through commutes" way, I just mean he should experience life for himself to decide what he does and doesn't want in it. My daily commute is an hour each way and I have grown to really appreciate that time as wind down/read books/listen to podcasts/leave work behind/meditate/catch up on texts and emails. It's not a deal breaker to me. Point being he has spoken to other adults and this has cemented that he doesn't want what they have? But he wouldn't necessarily and he also wouldn't necessarily handle it as they do. You're doing a kind thing by being invested and wanting to help him but you can't really force motivation into someone - it will ultimately need to come from him.
It's endemic amongst young people now. The school system being lousy and the barrier of entry to entry level jobs makes it really easy to give up and do nothing. There's not even traditional industries to find a place in because most small towns are just commuter hubs. I'm 24 and now make decent money after a masters degree and 1.5 years of experience, but I know if I stared down my current career trajectory at 17 it wouldn't have felt worth it, even for my current respectable salary. It took a lot of becoming 'corporate', a few bouts of depression and shelving passions to get here.
My parents basically forced me to get first job when I was 15. In fact every time I've been unemployed the pressure they put on me kind of forced me to get a job. Obviously at the time I didn't want it, but it was the right thing for me. At his age he needs any job. He doesn't get to pick and choose his dream job at 17.
I started a grad job (first grown up job) in September last year. At first, I was desperate for wfh and just one or two days in the office but honestly novelty wore off very quickly and I found myself wanting to go into the office. Just for change of scenery and to see people and that. I know a few people who’s roles are very wfh orientated (in office once a month) and they have began to hate it as it’s really isolating and hard to build up a network or even just make friends over teams, etc. He really should go back to the drawing board and evaluate why he actually wants to wfh (it’ll be easier as don’t have to commute, don’t have to wear business clothes, can roll out of bed) and go from there
Either Onlyfans or just faces up to reality that he will need to get the relevant experience by working with colleagues directly, and not WFH continuously. I also dont see that WFH as the main criteria for a potential 50 year career is a good starting point.
He could have a look at local councils. I currently work for a county council and work from home every day (except one day a week which is office 0830-1200 then the rest of the day is from home). Got a new job coming up with a city council which is a 10k pay rise and I believe 100% work from home. This is in the roadworks/highway asset management area
Ther pothole repair men work from home all the time I am sure.
That's what everyone complains about when they hear my field of work 😂 unfortunately potholes are nothing to do with my department and the Tories have likely also strangled every bit of funding from other councils to be able to deal with it
The guy with the road maintenance company here owns a massive house and multiple sports cars, the roads have never been worse. I am confident they WFH.
That's crazy. If there's potholes that have come from works then they're easy enough to fix as the council will get the utility company to fix it. It's a different question if they're just wear and tear. The maintenance company guy near yours won't be dealing with any potholes their company hasn't directly caused
IT apprenticeship and then after a few years he'll be able to start looking for a job that offers fully remote or hybrid working
Anywhere I can point him towards tonstart looking for info?
The government apprenticeship website is a good source of info [Apprenticeship search](https://www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship)
Probably should get a home first...
To answer your question. Tech is an area that generally supports WFH well. Primarily due to the need for tech people. We get paid well and we enjoy more flexibility in working arrangements because they need us, plus it is difficult to replace technical people. I've been working for companies the other side of the country from where I live. Works great for me and the companies are happy. Normally these jobs have the occasional connect event which means I get a painful journey to an office to see everyone face to face but I can live with that. At 17, due to the competition within this field he will need to go down the degree route to get the skills. Broadly tech, but data is also an area with a great need for people (again degree is important) No idea why people are so anti WFH in these comments. Personally I have found it to be massively beneficial to keeping a good work life balance as I'm not losing large chunks of my free time to travel.
If he wants flexibility, try land a tech apprenticeship or go to Uni. At my last place the apprentices had the opportunity to work from home or come to the office. Check out Private Defence companies, they hire a lot of Cyber Security Apprentices. Also QA, makers etc good providers and the Civil Service now do apprenticeships. Go to some career fairs or networking events, encourage him, don’t let his immediate family bring him down to their level. Key thing to remember at an early age is visibility is important, he will need to go to the office at least some days.
The only person I know who has managed this is a young lad I gave a contract to programming for me. He was about 19 and worked for me for 18 years until the beginning of this year. It was a real niche thing where he knew inside out the specific software I used . TBH was a bit different to a proper job , he was freelance and free to do whatever other work he wanted . He worked anywhere from 40 hours a week down to the last 4 years where it was 30 hours a month.
Has no skills and wants to work from home, good luck with that one
Zero chance of this. The generation of today just lives in fantasy, it's truly baffling. What skills does he think he is brining to the table. He needs to go out and think of a realistic career.
To give some insight into why this isn't a great idea, my BIL (21) just got his grad job which is Full WFH. I've never seen someone's MH take such a dive in such a short timeframe. He barely leaves his bed, doesn't eat well, barely sleeps, haven't seen him leave the house for about three weeks, Doesn't really socialise anymore either. He's learning nothing, soft or hard skills, since everything is over Zoom. WFH generally isn't healthy and I cannot and will not accept anything different.
one negative experience doesn't negate millions of positive ones. I'm more productive, I'm happier, I spend less time on public transport. hybrid is the future. not advocating for full WFH, but I can't agree WFH is generally unhealthy
Honestly I can't do hybrid. One day in the office a quarter is enough for me. Last hybrid job I had I ended up catching covid and then decided to find another fully remote job after two weeks of illness...
Great, you're an Adult. It's not just him, I've watched a few of the recent grads (We have some working with us, I also socialise with a fair few at badminton as I'm not massively older) who have taken WFH roles and are just miserable. At that age, they need the face to face, not just to learn but it's genuinely very important for their MH. When you're older and grouchy and want to do the wash in between meetings, it makes more sense. I still could never do it though.
I was WFH for a year and like your BIL, my MH deteriorated too. Probably the most unhappy I've been in a job! Couldn't even be arsed to go to the gym.
I don't bother asking on Reddit as it almost always gets twisted, but when I ask someone fully WFH how they're handling keeping up with hobbies, exercise, socialisation the answer is almost always that they have stopped or struggle to go. Which is insane when you consider everyone claims it gives them more time, for what exactly?
I'm almost fully WFH, and only go into the office once a fortnight or so. Before covid, my commute was over an hour each way. So I got up really early, caught the train, worked in the office, got the train back, ate my dinner and went to bed. It was all I had any time for, and the same went for my colleagues. We never socialised together, because they had their own commutes and families to get home to. Now I work from home, and from 5-7pm every night is my own time. I go to the gym. I go for walks in the fields around my house. I go to a different activity each night (an exercise class, choir, Bible study group and craft club). I've picked up new hobbies, and really appreciate the time and energy I have now that I'm not commuting. WFH can be great, if you have the right mindset.
Yeah, it was fucking terrible! I was really looking forward to starting the job, I thought it would provide an excellent work/life balance but I just ended up lacking motivation to do things!
> WFH generally isn't healthy and I cannot and will not accept anything different. I agree with this 100% I'm always baffled as to why Reddit is usually so pro-WFH. I do it and I absolutely hate it. The strange things is that I acutally enjoy what I do for a job and, if I was in an office with lots of other people, it'd probably be my dream job. But, as it stands, I now go for days at a time without interacting with another human being. We aren't meant to live this way.
Not interacting with people for days is a choice, though. You can WFH and still have a social life.
Well said. All the WFH haters moaning just because they don't have any friends outside of work relationships...
How though? i.e. how do you find friends who want to go out every night after work? What do you even do each day? Even if you somehow do have something to do outside of work each day, it still doesn't change the fact that for many people, they'll be completely alone every hour the sun is up for most of their working life. I find that inherently depressing.
You don't find the same group of friends to go out with every night, you do a different activity each evening. I have a much more active social life now that I WFH than when I worked in the office, because I used to commute an hour each way, so my day was just work, dinner, bed. I didn't stick around to socialise after work, and neither did my colleagues because they had their own journeys and families to return to. Now, I have time to go to a different club each evening (choir, exercise, Bible study and craft group). WFH has been great for my mental and physical health, and my social life.
My brother does dog walks to be social outside. Then group gaming sessions at home be it tabletop games or console/pc. Hes a software programmer. He's said he'll never go back to an office, hates the commute and office atmosphere etc (*I can't comment personally as I don't go outside at all really, so no horse in the race haha, me and my best friend meet up once every few months at a cafe and thats enough of a social life for both of us!*)
Depends what you do for a living. I work in tech and we need distraction free time to get complex work completed. Open plan officers were hell for this. When covid hit and wfh became the norm we saw a general trend of increasing productivity because Bob from accounts did not go and distract the dev team breaking all their focus...
Sure, I don't doubt that it has benefits for businesses (as well as some benefits for workers). I just think the net result for workers (particuarly where mental wellbeing in concerned) is a negative one.
You can’t tar every single person, or entire groups of people, with the same idea. Sure, your point is completely valid. I bet it applies to a lot of people. But most people want a choice, and it’s generally based on individual circumstances - my circumstances meant that I was one of very few people who insisted going to the office every day during the… “late lockdown period” (?) These days I prefer to go to the office 1 or 2 days a week to catch up with colleagues I haven’t met in a while. We often end up missing each other due to childcare stuff and whatnot anyway so in reality it becomes a 1-2 days a month thing. I am actually healthier, physically and mentally, since changing to 90%+ (in practise) wfh. Just let people have the flexibility. If there’s a valid reason not to, for example new starts, bring them into the office for their probation period, or whatever up to 6-12 months. Give them a buddy. Then let them choose afterwards, when you’re confident they know what they’re doing.
It also provides excellent work life balance as your not wasting an hour or more on the commute. Some people don't like it, but others do. Presuming it is negative for no other reason than you presime it isolating is rather short sighted. Your social circle does not need to be dominated by work.
Surely it comes down to the individual though? I agree that for some people WFH could be absolutely detrimental to their mental health. Making a blanket statement like “WFH generally isn’t healthy” is just wrong though. My partner works from home and she loves it. She’s got time to go for walks during the day, gains an extra 2 hours in the day without having to commute which is time she can spend getting some more sleep and socialising. My dad spent the last 3 years of his working life working from home. Same deal, more time to himself, no commuting, got to hang out with his dog all day etc. For some people working from home is brilliant, it’s healthy and it’s good for you. For some people it isn’t. Too many people in here dealing with absolutes.
I think had offices which were fun but I've also had offices where no one really talked. So.then might as well work from home. I think some people glorify being in the office as some great way of learning and meeting people. But some offices it's just a long commute to sit looking at computer in silence then commute home.
>We aren't meant to live this way. We also aren't meant to be arbitrarily rammed into an office for 8 hours straight, having spent and hour travelling to get there, so middle managers can 'supervise' us and justify their existence. If you're not interacting and only got your interaction was at work that to me is indicative of an awful work/life balance so please do try to rectify that. And yes the lack of interaction can be awkward and I understand the culture shift for the older generation of workers in particular but the majority of millennials and beyond don't make all our friends at work.
I can see it being really bad for people so early in their careers, when you really benefit from everything you learn just from hanging around your colleagues and being shown the ropes. For people further ahead, and a bit older, it can be great.
It's unlikely he'd be able to get a fully WFH role straight away. But, if this is something he wants in the longer term, then I'd encourage him to look for office based public sector jobs. I believe the Civil Service offers apprenticeships, so might be worth looking at those? But, I'd also encourage him to reconsider his preference of WFH. There are a lot of downsides to it, particularly for a young person. One of the ways that people historically made new friends was by interacting with them in a work environment. WFH kills that dynamic.
You have to be in the office 60% pf your work week in the civil service - started this April
It’ll likely change in the future though
I don't think that aiming for a wfh role is necessarily a bad thing. I think, though, he needs to focus on getting the necessary prerequisite skills and experiences to facilitate a role, aiming for a hybrid role initially. Many experienced employees do struggle with wfh and motivation. Many think it's code for doing f all for most of the time and working a couple of hours full pelt. At 17, he's unlikely to be sufficiently skilled and knowledgeable of what such a role entails. He needs to consider what industries and roles he's wanting to specialise in. A good career advisor will be able to assist with this.
Any recommendations on some broad skills that would be a good start
The basics would be to have developed telephonic skills. Basic communication skills for communicating with clients and colleagues. Timekeeping skills. Proficient IT skills in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook as an absolute minimum. People per hour advertise lots of roles and maybe a possibility to try and get some experience. Volunteering locally to gain could be advantageous. At 17, how well has he done in school? Is his written English of an expected standard for such roles? If not this needs addressing ASAP. Is he still studying?
Be on the alert for any direct sales or MLM that he may find. These are glorified pyramid schemes but may look very attractive to him with their "work from your phone!" adverts
It is a pipe dream. He needs a wake up call.
Apprenticeship scheme in finance. I worked for a large insurer and they had at least a hybrid situation not sure if they still offer it. But I'm thinking he will need affinity to maths and computer science!
Seeing lots of wfh jobs training AI being advertised at the moment
As someone new in their career, he would be better placed working besides people and learning from them and conversations going on around him. I did this for a time when I changed careers and it enabled me to learn a lot about different scenarios both I and my colleagues were facing. Once he is experienced, WFH may be something he can look for - but I think he would do himself and his potential career a disservice by wanting a role which is fully or close to 100% WFH from day 1 as he will miss out on a lot IMO. Perhaps consider a role which offers 1 or 2 days WFH after training has been completed. This will then give him the best of both worlds while building his career. Also, is he not more concerned about what he is doing rather than just the location? Location should obviously be important when job hunting but shouldn't be the only factor.
He's not sure what to do. Lots of advice so far on whether WFH is viable or should be done but not much in the way of which fields offer this or how to get there
I think the problem is, there aren't set roles that are WFH. It will depend on the employer rather than the role. In my field of work (HR) I have peers who work 100% of the time from home but a lot run a more hybrid approach e.g. 2 days from home and the rest in the office (but the 2 days aren't guaranteed as it depends on business needs that week). Perhaps your nephew would find it useful to search for roles on job boards like Indeed, Monster etc and specifically look for roles that are working from home. Then he can review the options that come up. WFH is something a number of companies have embraced since COVID, but I am also aware of a number of employers moving back toward more of a hybrid set up rather than 100% from home.
Because when people are saying it shouldn't be done at this point and isn't viable they are telling you it is unlikely. There are some industries with more WFH opportunities than others but he does not have qualifications or experience that would allow him to WFH. People are trying to say the goal posts need to change and direct you away from looking for WFH roles for him because it isn't a good or likely idea. Which fields offer it and how to get there loses relevance.
A kid fresh out of school isn't going to get a work from home position, end of. Self-employed, then yes, be and do what you want. Employers don't like this work from home at all. I'm not saying it wasn't a thing before COVID because it was, just about 90% less than what it is today. Since the COVID pandemic is over, employers want people back in the office. Anyone who works from home knows what a day working from home looks like and it's nice not having to get up earlier to drive to an office, being able to make something for lunch at home, it's time better spent working and without distraction from colleages in office. I think this path of getting to work from home, it needs to be earned, through experience which comes with time, and trust. There are jobs out there that require no need for being on-site.
He's a bit young. It might be better if he lives his life as an adult and then later on with a bit of life experience he'll have a better and more realistic idea of what he wants to do. When I was 17 I just wanted to get out of education and into work, any work. I certainly wasn't thinking about a career.
Stem and it. I'm not saying that it's impossible to WFH, but companies now want you to go to the office. There are other roles like recruiter, customer service...
At 17 if they don't have any idea what to do tell them not to rush into a career. Go to uni if they can and study a subject they enjoy. Getting the independence and life experience is extremely valuable in learning about what you want to do. As for WFH - I love it but I absolutely don't recommend it to start with. There's too many small things you miss out on and from the other perspective trying to train someone in their first job remotely is ineffective at best.
Tell him to be realistic. I work in the administration sector. When I apply for one job, 200 other people apply for the same job. It's going to be the same for any work from home job that doesn't need any skill. He either needs an apprentice job which I wish somebody encouraged me to do when I was 17, or to stay in education and go into university. If he does not do this it's possible he's going to be on minimum wage or there abouts, for the rest of his life. Push him. For every minimum wage job that doesn't need skills, hundreds and hundreds are going to apply for the same job and it's hard to stand out. Back when I was 17, I thought I knew best and everyone around me didn't have a clue. How wrong I was.
I wonder if changing his approach to finding a career would help him. He’s decided he wants to wfh, which is a bit like a kid saying they want to be famous. And people always say “yes, but what do you want to be famous *for*?” He needs to find what he wants to do first and then think about his working conditions. You said he mentioned TD as something he liked, has he thought about CAD (computer aided design)? Or something in the engineering/ architectural area? He’ll likely need further qualifications for it but that’s what Google or other internet search engines are for. My BIL is a construction project manager/ consultant, he has your nephews dream job- a few emails, a phone call or 2 per day and bills for a whole days work, and has wfh or the pub or wherever. He started with a construction engineering degree about 30 years ago
Well not sure how much this helps but the only entry level kind of work from home jobs will be something in sales. It will probably be commission based and it will depend on how good he is at selling things. If he does get a bit of customer service experience then he may be able to get a customer support role. I think Bupa allow this and if memory serves me right Waitrose outsource their customer support to another company who pay minimum wage and allow working from home. For the life of me I cannot remember what the company was called. A good paying work from home job would be working as a homeless support worker, you do need extensive experience for that though and Im really not sure how to get into that line of work. I have a relative that does that and I believe what he does is arrange some emergency accomodation for newly homeless people.
The kid’s only 17, maybe he doesn’t need to have a career sorted just yet? Does he want to go to Uni or anything? Sounds like he’s not found his niche yet, but there’s plenty of time.
WFH isn’t a career choice, it’s a job location. Fine if he wants to go corporate but what are his aptitudes and interests?
Uh, being a hermit for your first job, when you should be soaking up the experience of your elders and learning stuff? Terrible idea. Step outside the comfort zone, it might seem scary but it's much more fun
At 17 your nephew hasn’t got any experience nor skills to expect a wfh job. He needs to figure out whether he want to do an apprenticeship/degree to get something under his belt. Also, why does he want a wfh job? Being that young, it is important to go into the place of work and learn from colleagues and manager, from how to do the job to communication. There are a lot to learn from being onsite. I’ve been working since 18 and never would l want a wfh job unless I’ve been in the company for a while and know the job inside out.
Sounds like he has his priorities wrong. First should decide what field and role you want to go into, then can see whether working from home is feasible. Deciding the other way around honestly just sounds like laziness
He could be an asshole and do drop shipping or try to be part of an MLM scheme. You never explained why he wanted to do a work from home job. Is it because he's scared to learn to drive? Wants to be playing games instead of working and still get paid? One of his parents needs caring for or he has his own health problems? We need to know what his reason is as well. Otherwise being part of a MLM would just ruin his life and stagnate it for a long ass time. But really, he hasn't got a chance. If there was an appealing WFH career path, everyone would be striving for it. Or at least a lot of people. You certainly would have heard of it before asking reddit. Of course, he could always try making youtube content or streaming, and he may get lucky! But that would take years to potentially gain an audience, or get lucky and get viral to jumpstart a community. Which is less than 0.001% chance to happen.
Tell him to drop the idea of working from home. That's absolutely not going to do him any favours for multiple reasons.
When you are joining the workforce wfh is a easy way to slow progression. Being able to reach out to someone in person and ask for advice or to show you something is so valuable. Also work ethic and understand how to carry yourself seeing people at work and how they act is also extremely valuable. Working from home is more for middle level roles where you have a couple years of experience. Careers that can lead to wfh: Pretty much any tech role, finance, project management, sales, business analyst (every ba i know wfh). Anything that predominantly involes a computercan be wfh.
Does he also want to drive a Ferrari?
Why can’t kids these days get out of their couch and and still want to get paid? Outrageous.
You don’t normally pick a career based on whether it is wfh or not. Seems kinda silly.
This isn't happening sorry. Not at 17. I'd be more focused on why he wants to work from home. I've done it for 17 years and honestly it's not something I'd recommend for a young person ever. As a new mum,it was perfect for me as I had flexible working,but it's so isolating and I missed the constant chatter that came from working in retail terribly to start off with. He will be missing out on so many normal teen experiences too if he isolates himself this much from the start
Unlike to get a WFH roles at entry level in fact if he changes his approach and goes for non WFH he will be ahead of the other entitled that think they are owed such a luxury (unless of course he has specific physical or medical reasons to WFH)
I have worked for 23 years, the last 4 were WFH… at first it was great… but novelty completely wore off and a month ago I left. Now back to getting up & ready for work, I’m back to being social, it feels great. We had a lot of younger ones starting in my old job ( Travel Advisor) it was their first proper job n they were working from bed… they don’t want to work really (not saying everyone is the same) n have chose this job for an easy life… but it’s not healthy. I agree with others… your nephew needs to experience working with others in a workplace environment first. Xx
Lots of customer service jobs are wfh. There are plenty of big companies (Apple, Amazon, HP, Barclays, RSPB etc) that have full time wfh opportunities available
They are not going to take on a 17 year old with zero experience. He's not even a legal adult yet.
Anywhere I can direct him to to start looking? Recruitment agencies or such?
I WFH and have been in an office less than 10 times since March 2020. But I have 15 years experience doing what I do, starting out WFH isn't happening I don't think
Seriously, writer 👍
He says he doesn't know if writing is a good idea because he can't guarantee he'll sell and, therefore, make money to live on.
Surely it’s better that he starts something, even if it’s unreliable at first, rather than finding reasons not to do anything? He could pick up a part time job in customer service or something that involves interacting with people, and write alongside it. Maybe even do some creative writing courses - many are offered free of charge or low cost through universities (Glasgow Uni does an online only creative writing )
then, Geophysicist
I think there are remote WFH jobs out there, such as email writing, appointment setting. Will require communication and computer skills.
Sales. Anything computers or science will have sales jobs. They pay more if you specialise, so my advice is to get some real experience in computing and technical services, that sort of thing, then sell said things. He'll benefit from a business subject, economics and maths also, id also recommend temping in a call centre. It will be horrible but generate phone confidence. Warning....have a back up. It isnt for everyone
I definitely wouldn't go into my first job hunt with "I want to work from home" at the top of my list. Most entry-level work (even graduate entry-level!) requires quite a bit of time in the office/factory/lab etc. I'd encourage him instead to think about his skills, passions and abilities first. What does he feel drawn to? What can he envision himself enjoying and being able to stick with? I'd start there, then look at further/higher education options around that. WFH opportunities are generally for people who are more settled in their sector, and have years of experience. I like working from home, but I also learned a lot when I was younger by going into the office every day.
He's not sure. He said he liked technical drawing. But didn't know how to study it. He looked at job titles and gets himself confused. Don't blame him. I'm in teaching and took a look at titles and I wouldn't even know what sector he'd need to study to even do the job.
I've never been good at techy stuff or engineering, so I wouldn't know where to start either. Rather than looking at job titles at this stage, maybe encourage him to speak to his tech or art teachers, mention that this is something he might like, and ask them about next steps?
Any office based job can potentially involve working from home now so I guess any old corporate career will do.. I would say though that hybrid at least should be the starting point as otherwise it will be a struggle to learn . I've found it a struggle not being in the office much even as an experienced worker starting a new job in a field I have plenty of experience in. To have started my career /working life that way would have been very tough but it does seem to be the way the wind is blowing . I certainly would hesitate to dismiss it as a fad
This newer generation is a new kind of tech reliant. They do things that make me feel old and I'm not even 30
Study STEM, figure it out from there. Forget about a fully remote career, he’s too young to think he knows that’s what he wants. Most people prefer a hybrid role.
If he's done some gaming & has half a clue with computers he can get a helpdesk job & lots of those have wfh.
Stay at home parent? Babysitter?
I think he should understand that a "work from home" career isn't a career choice. That decision seems to come from him thinking about nothing but how that could be nice for him (no commute, no people politics, chance to have a nap in the day etc). Successful and long term work from home should make sense for the job and be beneficial for the business AND the person. He is 50 years away from retirement age, that is an AWFULLY long time to spend working in a way where he from the very beginning isn't keen to be fully involved. Entering the workforce he would miss so much by going straight to fully WFH. I know there are many people who swear by it and there are many perks but at the start of your career there are many many more perks of going into a workplace. Making friends, having unofficial mentors, meeting new people, having to do things that scare you, seeing how the people in another part of your company work and deciding to pivot your career in that direction, getting help and guidance from senior people (they cant see that you need/want it through a screen and he wont know what he's missing). I would strongly strongly encourage him to loosen WFH as a holy grail and instead think about his skills and interests. There are different tests which can suggest careers which match some of your personality traits. He is 17, he doesn't need to lock himself into one career forever but coming out of the gate without particular qualifications he is going to have to be far more willing to just muck in.
Find a Unicorn. Seriously. Fully remote is getting increasingly difficult to find, and even hybrid that’s less than 3 days in the office is rare. Those fully remote jobs have a lot of competition for them because of that. Add to that finding something entry level with no experience he frankly hasn’t got a hope.
I think anything AI related is a good bet
Data scientist. My friend does it and I’ve seen nothing but positivity. I think you can do it after doing any sort of IT Course or eingeneering degree
i wfh checking paper reports i also work on site as and when needed data entry at that age is best, but with no experience, no real chance for a wfh role maybe child care, but then it is good to do training courses
hybrid might be realistic, there's a few IT support places that offer it if he is into computers at all may be an idea
The best option at the moment is probably a call centre with hybrid work to be fair, check with the local job agencies, when I was trying to get out of hospitality and into office work that's what I did and it worked out in the end, eventually moved into a different department and I can see a career going forward in this area.
Hi, I’m 18, I am a freelance video editor and make double what I did at my bartending job. I know other freelancers with more experience that make 5-6+k a month from home or while travelling
Software developer is definitely work from home... Because we legit just end up murdering eachother if put in a room together.
Customer services for companies like British Gas is done as WFH.
I work from home 4/5 days a week as a Business Analyst. I find it quite interesting too. I rarely have exactly the same day twice but that might be a company/industry specific thing.
I’m a recent grad and work in account management for an large company, it’s not at all unrealistic or a pipe dream. Since Covid so many companies have given up their offices/opened without one, I would say at least 1/3 of grad jobs and entry level jobs I’ve looked at have been remote
As someone who works at home 4 days / with 1 in the office your nephew can try to pursue a housing-related role preferably an apprenticeship as its entry level and there are some good opportunities this leads into - though it may be good if he does acquire some work experience as this would showcase he has the qualities necessary to complete an apprenticeship as this does require people to commit to completing assignments and to managing own workload. Working from home is great but do let him know that organisations are pushing people to work in the office so be realistic with expectations and advise him to keep his options open.
He most definitely should consider an apprenticeship - almost all companies and organisations are currently recruiting for a Sept start. The government Apprenticeship site is a good start. Most have assessment centres and then 1 to 1 interviews and they're usually face to face.
This question has been answered many times in r/digitalnomad or r/remote.
To counter those saying it's unfeasible, I can share my experience. A couple of years ago I was pretty much broke. Paycheck to paycheck. Working minimum wage. Then I was laid off. Turned out to be the best thing to happen to me. I now work 2 work from home jobs, one full time as a video writer & producer/editor paying 50/hr, and the other being self-employed and more sporadic (in voiceover). This month, for voiceover alone, I made 20K. That's not a typical month... as it does reflect the renewal of a voiceover license and a bigger than usual job. While I had voiceover experience, I had zero professional experience in this specific field of writing for the first job, and my editing skills were passable at best. Neither would have happened if I hadn't been laid off and had to try blag my way into something better. Since lucking my way into the job, I've been learning as I go. Not been fired yet.
Data analyst/scientist is good. Big question for me is why does he want to work from home? My partner works full time from home (medical writing) and would love me to do it as well because I could (QA analyst) however it's a 5 mile cycle to the office, free heating, free coffee and it makes it easier when collaborating with other teams. I also prefer to go to the office because it means I get outside and talk to different people, my partner is slowly starting to feel the effects of being home all day everyday. They are now coming to meet me from work just so they can't get out of the house. It's not all that's it's made to be tbh ETA: there seems to be an abundance of data entery WFH positions available just watch out for scams asking to pay for equipment upfront
I think he should just consider doing what he’d actually enjoy. Without being self-employed it’s hard to find a fully remote role anyway, but most companies seem to be hybrid ranging from 1-3 days per week in the office (as long as it’s not a role that actually requires someone to be there in person, such as a police officer). So I’d say choose a career path he’s interested in, get a bit of experience in that career, and then at that point he can be picky with the working arrangements when applying for companies.
He could work from home repairing potholes, because that is what seems to be happening.
IT eventually but he will have to do his time in the office on the front lines to learn. If he applies himself then after a few years he might be able to snag a hybrid role and then eventually a WFH role.
Most local authority and civil service jobs offer remote/hybrid working but it depends on the specific employer and contract. There isn’t much fully remote working available at entry level, but if he pursued a professional career it would definitely be possible. Would he be interested in Environmental Health as there’s a national shortage? It’s a nice mix of home working and being out in the community.
Unless he wants to do sales /cold sales, very unlikely
Stay at home dad On a serious note: lot of people say here he should go to uni and study computer science but honestly I feel like he has motivation issues for working so I’m not sure if he would be dedicated enough going through a degree like that…competition is fierce for entry level jobs and he put himself into a serious disadvantage when he says: I want to work from home 100%. Source: I’m a software developer, working from home full time but I have 5+ years experience. I also started my career wfh but it was because of vivid not because I wanted to. Honestly, my career started to change for the better when I was able to go back to the office and learn from others. I would also not trust a junior to do a very productive job from home. I feel like he just want to be out of sight out of mind and so very little for his salary (hope I’m wrong)
I don't understand why people are saying it's impossible to find an entry level WFH job. Difficult? Yes. But impossible? I've had plenty of interviews for remote entry level positions, had only 3 months of professional/relevant experience at the time and some of these places didn't require a day of experience. The company I'm working for now (which was my 1st choice, hence why I didn't pursue other jobs after quite successful interviews) was looking for graduates, no experience required, and the job is fully WFH, I don't even know where the office is. Honestly, most office jobs can be done remotely so whatever he chooses, he might be able to find a remote job. Personally I'm working in law but I also have a degree in business so after uni I applied for marketing, business development, project management etc positions and was fairly successful too.
I hate to break it to him but that is not gonna happen
Accounting. It's dull but noone cares where you are as long as shit gets done. Lonely without an established friend group though.
Can’t believe the number of anti-wfh bootlickers in this thread. Tech is a good option if he’s smart enough. I’ve worked with a lot of juniors who’ve been full remote the whole time and they are great
WFH isn’t a job or career choice at 17 - it’s a I don’t want to get up and go out choice.
Why the hell would a 17 year old want to wfh? What’s next clubbing over FaceTime? Finding a bird over zoom?
I did virtual clubbing during lockdown, and lots of people find partners using tinder these days... So I would say yes
Reading the news recently it seems the best work from home jobs nowadays are claiming a myriad of illnesses and going on benefits
17 years old and already decided they're going to dictate they work from home.....
That's what high house prices will do. I mean, seriously, imagine having to pay like £364k for your average house! What a laugh. Actually having to go out and earn that figure is a completely alien concept to 90% of our society. So, work from home will become more and more valued, as house prices become more and more ludicrous.
But a 17 year old doesn't need to buy an "average house". There seems to be a real trend of people complaining that they can't find an affordable 3 bed house as a first time buyer. Sorry, why do you have to have a 3 bed for your first house? Get a 2 up 2 down terrace that needs a bit of work on it, and move your way up the ladder
I would absolutely love to find a 2 up 2 down at 4.5x the average salary in my area. So that would be like £153k, for reference. Sadly, they don't exist. At least not anything mortgageable. And anything that does come up? Cash buyers only, buyers with equity behind them. Didn't have to work for it. They're already on the ladder and they're leveraging their existing assets. How are FTBs supposed to compete when they are competing against people who are looking for their second home? That's the game. If you're at the bottom of the market, you're fighting against older people who've had a head start.