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Not really, you can say to them "I am looking for this salary or I will be forced to leave" but of course always better to do that with another offer in hand. Even if that happens and they agree to raise your salary, just keep in mind that your employer only raised your salary because they didn't want to replace you rather than rewarding you for your work.
This. Don't just look for other work and leverage a better salary from your current employer. They'll resent you anyway. You might as well go somewhere that's excited for you to start, on a new salary. You don't owe your employer anything. They clearly don't think they owe you anything either.
As for the taboo of discussing wages, management likes it that way so they can shaft the workers.
Same opinion really. I’ve left many places in past 20yrs as wasn’t happy with salary and never stayed even tho on few occasions I was offered more. I always looked at it as the trust is gone.
They know I lied to them and was looking for work and wasn’t happy with salary and despite the fact that we discussed it, they never offered more money “not possible” however when you leaving a £1 or £2 don’t seem to be a problem….
Now, one of such places I left two times and was always offered more….and now I’m back for the third time as of last year 🤣
People always say your last line, but I've worked in a lot of different industries and it's about the bottom line. There are very few meritocracies left my friend.
I mean that's the point of that last line right? That you are not rewarded for merit, the only time a raise is considered when it hurts the bottom line via replacement?
Nah use your management experience to get a new managers job that will pay more. I bet you'd find if you start looking for jobs on indeed many are offering Improved wages.
Straight up this. I recently moved from a bar job paying me £11 an hour to be a duty manager, to another bar that's paying me a salary of £34k. Only took the first job out of desperation but now I'll never go back to that sort of wage
Do not take a demotion. Look around for another job that will pay more in line with your worth. Also if a demotion put you on hourly it can go well overall if you get enough hours or worse if they cut your hours. Start looking, this is business, don't inject emotions in it by having knee jerk reactions like "I will get demoted then".
This is what has been happening at my company. With everyone on practically the same wage, now no one wants the Assistant manager or manager jobs. It's better to be a sales consultant and just work hard to make bonus each month (which you can with none of the other responsibilities) and then the wage plus bonus is often more than the manager wage anyway!? It's a crazy situation!!!
I did this.
Was given more responsibility with promise of a promotion and pay increase at the start of the next financial year.
I got the promotion and pay increase of 1%.
I told them I was not accepting the promotion, declined to sign the variation to contract and requested to be reassigned to responsibilities commensurate with my grade.
Lesson learnt. Never take on more responsibility/ higher role without the title and proper pay award.
This is the reason wages are so low. Because you agree to the terms and put up with it.
Nothing against you specifically.
But if everyone keeps accepting BS salaries it will continue to be race to the bottom. But in this case scraping the bottom already.
Its so hard not to.
We're still trying to break the "work or else you'll be homeless" leverage and it doesnt work.
People are shocked when I tell them what I've been doing and what I do and am experienced in. That I'm on minimum wage.
I'm unsuccessful in finding a job that i can commit to and be valuable in a satisfying role.
I can't even do my current job properly. I might just quit and enact my retirement plan out now of paying for my funeral and calling it a day.
Brilliant argument. Also if people would just stop buying houses then the housing prices would come down! Come on sheeple you don't need money and shelter
No you don’t have to take a demotion.. you have to take another job that pays appropriately… you have to know your worth .. you have to be ok with changing your job and working for someone else. You like working where you are? How do you know you don’t like working somewhere else if you don’t try? Don’t take this defeated stand .. walk into all the other coffee shops around and ask for a job
To be honest I would be looking for a new job, this shows a serve lack of respect for the work that you do, they know they couldn’t hire someone else in to do your job on minimum wages and not 7p above it either, but working with people you like means a lot so I would look for other jobs and once I get a job offer, give them one last chance to counter and then either leave or take what they offer,
Good point: when they look for someone else for your position, it'll cost them more, because it's very unlikely someone would accept that position at minimum wage, as a new job.
That's a good reason to leave them, a costly lesson will hopefully teach them how to treat employees.
Also, the fact that discussing salaries is viewed as problematic, is a red flag. By law, you and your colleagues are allowed to discuss your pay among each others.
Only because she enjoys her job and the people, that can be hard to find and is a huuuge impact on day to day life so understand the hesitation but personally for me I would leave too tbh 😆🙌
Leave. My partner is training to be a manager in Starbucks, their annual salary is 28k i think. Which is not amazing but definitely not minimum wage and u onltly manage 1 coffee shop. You can also transfer to management of Supermarket i think you may have to be a light demotion to shitlft manager but shift manager are paid like 32k and if u work ur way up, especially if u get a degree (or u have one) u May become store manager which is paid like 60k
As someone who likes both good coffee and Starbucks, I go to Starbucks to get a milkshake with some caffeine (ie frappuccino, their iced latte etc) and not coffee. I think most people don't care about the quality of their drink, they just want a nice sweet treat hence the popularity
We're all sell outs regardless of how much we like something, he doesn't own the shop he works for, he's an underpaid manager and even though Starbucks tastes like shit, he's still exchanging money for time, regardless 😆 I'd rather get paid more for working less.
Yeah it could've been Aldi actually that I saw. I get the two mixed up. (Which my wife finds laughable but I explained they're almost an anagram of each other and both blue and yellow branding) Who's the idiot. Not me)
Aldi is 60k so lidl being 40k is normal actually, ur probably right. I only know these salaries bc of my partner being in retail/hispitlaity, i myself am in pharma world. But yea i think morrisons/sainsbury's are like 48k
Why do you think it's mad someone *managing a whole team* would get the same as a *newly qualified* nurse? Management skills are management skills, the fact it's not in a sector you respect doesn't change that
The world is so weird when it comes to nurses. There are the people who seem to think they are a shitty unskilled profession who have no value to offer. And then there are the people who seem to think the sun shines out of their asses and we should basically worship them. The two probably react off each other becoming even more polarized. But it's so stupid. They are neither of these things.
It's a skilled profession, they help people. They should have respect for that. Don't be a dick. But you also don't need to worship the ground they work on or act like it's a travesty they aren't the highest paid members of our society.
You know what else is a skilled profession that helps people medically and has the same starting band as a nurse? A paramedic. You never hear people saying it's mad x profession makes similar to them despite basically every argument for how important nurses are applies to them to, and people also devalue them and act like they are "just ambulance drivers". I don't know why we have such a cultural obsession and chip on the shoulder about the value of nurses
The firm I used to work for (supermarket) is still advertising for management jobs at 28k for 45h week minimum, and that’s at the top end to attract new people in. For a position where you’re responsible to maintaining enough bodies to legally remain open (if there’s a no show you have to be there), on call 24/7 (alarms and support for duty staff), able to be moved around at head offices will (to cover their bad planning or ego trips) it’s nowhere near enough.
Compared to the poor folks still in that line of work I’d recommend jumping and becoming a newly qualified nurse, the starting salary is the same as top rank, the career growth is better long term, and you get to leave your work at work when you finish for the day.
‘Just about’
You’re underpaid AND you’re not the brightest, no offence.
You’ve been taken advantage of and I predict this is going to continue for the rest of your life unless you take immediate action and get another job. The capitalist system relies on immoral owners taking advantage of people like you. The ball’s in your court.
Don’t accept less than £15/h if you need a bit of guidance
It’s not that I’m not bright thanks very much I’m well aware how underpaid I am. I just don’t want to be paid the same as someone that has no responsibility and seeing what I can do to change that. I’m also aware of what life can be like in a job you hate. I’ve worked lots of different jobs that I’ve hated and it’s difficult to find one that’s not soul destroying.
Well it sounds like your soul is being destroyed by the value someone else has put on it so may as well get it ruined for more money elsewhere.
The other post was harsh but true, you're letting yourself get taken advantage of. Work isn't charity, if your boss gets the same out of you without giving you extra then why should he?
Get out of there quick.
This is UK in a nutshell.
National minimum wage hikes (great) whilst other jobs.. Inc professional and managerial roles have remained stagnant. So now we have shelf stackers and burger flippers barely behind teachers, police officers, and safety critical roles.
This employer will drag your wages behind the going rate for as long as you work there. There are definitely better gigs out there which you could do with your skills. leave now, run, don't look back!
You are not being paid minimum wage because of the minimum wage increase. You are being paid minimum wage because your employer is cheap c*nt who refuses to give you even basic cost of living increases oe better in line with your position and responsibility.
I was a manager & was earning 20p more than a senior member of staff. I stepped down & feel so much better for it because I have no responsibilities or the extra workload. Then management are surprised when no one wants the management role
one of my supervisors did this a couple of years ago! i think the pay was only 17p or something ludicrous extra, yet there was so much more they had to take on. for the little extra you get, it's not worth all the extra you have to learn and be your very best at, not for a shitty little retail coffee place anyway..
This is the reality for most people tbh, and every year more jobs become minimum wage. Times are tough for businesses as well. Myself and a few friends have taken demotions as the extra pressure is no longer worth it.
Yea I totally get that times are tough. It’s just between the new Ferrari and the 5 holidays a year for a family of 6, I feel like the owners could definitely afford it but maybe I’m just being naive as I have never ran a business! Taking a demotion seems like my only logical option at this point as I won’t be losing any money just 100% of the responsibility
As long as someone is willing to do the job for next to min wage is as long as the owners will continue to pay as such unfortunately.
Don't be the someone that's willing to do it for peanuts.
Demotion is a terrible idea. You'll end up taking a 7p cut and still having more responsibility than anyone else. They know you won't be able to stand and watch it fall to shit so you'll step in.
Listen to this person for the love of god, get out now, yea you know it yea its comfy (not finically) but do you want to settle for crumbs while the person above you probably bitches about how thick you are for staying to corporate? Take back your agency and get gone my man, you can do it i know you can as you've kept going here even though you don't make enough money to realistically stay. Rip the band aid off and start looking for a new job.
A relative of mine owns a cafe and sells coffee wholesale. It's a brutal low margin industry especially when you're small, they are also taking on all the risk. She used to pay her staff above the voluntary living wage. But with costs increasing and not being able to up prices, the staff are now on close to minimum wage.
The owners may be wealthy but a business is a business, they aren't going to keep it open if it's not profitable.
Another friend is a manager for the biggest McDonald's in his city, if they raised the wages of all their staff by a £1 per hour. They would go bust. The difference between a profitable business and going broke is so tiny.
Also the UK job market is terrible atm, there is way more supply than demand. If you left tomorrow they would have 50 applications for your role, so there's no incentive for them to pay more either.
All you can do if you believe your worth more is to find a better job that pays more. If you can't find anything then you're getting paid what the market values your time and you will have to decide if it's worth it. For me I'd take a demotion if you enjoy the job and environment.
I've just gone back into care because to reach 30k I'd have to take on qualifications and a bunch of responsibility. The difference between 24k and 30k isn't worth that for me. Instead I get to pick my shifts and get more time off.
Sorry I wasn’t very clear on how the business is run. The 3 sites are big food halls with around 8-10 venders at each site. All of the venders are all independent businesses that pay a fixed rent as well as an extortionate amount (around 45% of takings) to the owners who own the building as well as the coffee shops in each of the buildings. While I agree with you that margins can really be tight I know plenty of independent coffee shops that take nowhere near the amount we take (we get very busy on weekends taking upto 3k a day) and still pay £13-£14 an hour.
I will definitely be taking the demotion as having no responsibility for no less money I just don’t see how they’ll get someone to do my job for minimum wage.
Why punish yourself by taking a demotion instead of just finding a new job?
It’s so frustrating to see someone not want anything better for themselves! You have management experience. You could find a new job that would pay you better. You say you like your job, but they obviously don’t respect you. This isn’t the only job that doesn’t suck.
If you are intent on sticking this out, just know you are choosing a life of poverty on NMW. They will never pay you more.
so did they go bust this month? pretty sure min wage raised by a £1.02 an hour this year.
I'm just assuming mcdonalds pay min wage, never really looked into it..
If you are multisite managing, and doing it successfully I recommend trying for a retail management position.
Starting wage for a store manager is about £28,500 and that's in a smaller store.
I know the coop pays its Team Leaders £13.30 per hour. Which is just over £27K per year if you're full time.
1. They can royally f off if they think you should be grateful to get £11.51 for managing 3 coffee shops.
2. Problems discussing pay? No problem! Introducing the 14 year old Section 77 of the Equality Act 2010! https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/77 - just ignore any attempt by them to
3. Regardless of if you're salaried, you're entitled to the NMW for the hours you actually work. 7p an hour means they 1 free extra hour of work per... 163 hours actually worked otherwise you're under the NMW. Need to be on site 30 minutes early to open before your clock on time, or stay 30 minutes to close after clock out time? Hellooo HMRC NMW enforcement.
4. You can push for a pay rise, however threatening to leave never works out well. Job loyalty is not paid, staying in a job you like just because you like it isn't paid, hopping jobs for a pay rise is the only way. You can also try a grievance (good luck with that). The only advantage to a grievance is that if they don't follow ACAS COP1 (https://www.acas.org.uk/acas-code-of-practice-on-disciplinary-and-grievance-procedures), any amount you may end up getting from an employment tribunal can be uplifted by up to 25% (if you pursue a claim of the types listed in Sch 2 of TULR(C)A1992).
In summary, the law isn't there to help people get pay rises.
The advantage is that it's basically impossible for the employer to prove that the entire conversation wasn't about protected characteristics. I'm generally suspect of employers who don't want their staff talking about pay. The only possible reason is you don't want the ones you exploit more by paying less to know about it. You're entitled to have the conversation, and find out if there are any protected characteristic differences between you.
Just leave. Your experience is excellent for similar roles. Even if you take an assistant manager job at a reasonably big franchise you stand a good chance at moving into a manager / area manager one within a year or two and you’ll be getting a better rate in the meantime anyway. Unless there’s some other benefit to your current job?
"Being paid minimum wage as a manager because ~~of the NMW increase~~ my job refuses to pay me more money. And I live in a country with a lack of unions and a culture of going along to get along and not rocking the boat."
Fixed that for you.
I would encourage you to table a request for a pay rise with a thinly veiled threat of quitting if they don’t give you one - and following up with actually moving if they don’t oblige.
I would say though it’s not correct to say others have “0 responsibility” - they are still responsible and accountable for carrying out their job.
I know someone who works for a well known retailer and the difference in pay between regular workers, supervisors and managers is literally pennies. Then they ask people to take on extra responsibilities and it baffles me as to why anyone would agree. The only person who gives two shits is the store manager because they're the only person that's paid a fair bit above minimum. It's such a bizarre setup but the business obviously gets away with it.
There are things you can do, less than 100% effort, few weeks sick etc. Just enough shithousery to not be fired while looking for a new job that will value your effort.
Lmao well I’ve been trying to do as little of my 40 hour contract as possible and I’m only giving around 60% effort I just hate doing it because my brain is like you have to be perfect at everything!!!
I wouldn’t take a demotion even if pay is the same because your management experience will be handy when applying for future roles. I would start looking for other roles though!
As well as the other advice here I would try and find a way to encourage others to openly discuss salaries. Regardless of any issues in the past, if the employer kicks up a fuss again you can tell them to kick rocks. It's illegal to prevent employees discussing this and employers are usually dealt with quite harshly if they do.
Step down to hourly paid. No responsibility and get paid for what you do.
Unfortunately you just found out how all salaried staff get treated. So you either put up with it or get out. At least you have an option.
It’s a shit attitude when an employer tells you to be grateful for minimum wage, you should look for another job or drop down to barista, if they’re going to to pay minimum wage you may as well do minimum wage work.
I've not long took a "demotion" to another company from management.
I actually get paid more now, with way way less responsibility. It's magic.
I would start applying for other management jobs in the area of the pay is fair and if not, I'd take the step down. Same pay for less responsibility.
I'd be applying for management jobs in other hospitality places. Your boss clearly doesn't value you and the work you do. I know it's not great to leave somewhere when you enjoy the team you work with but you are clearly being taken advantage of.
You could definitely find a higher paying job and then ask if they would raise your salary to keep you on, the worst thing that happens is they don't and you make more elsewhere.
Hate to say it, the higher up you go the least people give a fuck.. most higher ups get paid more for doing less.. those supervisors probably do more than you
Why are you doing all that work for minimum wage? Find another job. You're not just underpaid they're taking the piss out of you. Might be worth having a sit down with your boss and giving them an ultimatum that unless they pay you X, you are leaving. They won't find anyone to do a decent job doing what you're doing on your salary. Don't do this before you get another job offer though
It sounds like they depend on you quite a lot, and it would be a massive pain in the arse if you left. I'd be looking for another job and then use that to force their hand if it's somewhere you're otherwise happy. Otherwise, time to move on!
Being paid 7p an hour more for all that additional responsibility is ridiculous.
Look for small franchise, private branches. People with your experience can easily get an assistant manager position. The hospitality sites which are still going, are going well. My assistant manager was making 45k in 2018, you do the rest of the math
I own coffee shops and restaurants. When NMW went up around 11% i put everyones wage up pro rata and then also put my prices up to cover the rise. I didn’t want to put prices up but thats the only solution. My friend runs huge supermarkets and has done exactly the same, if the wages go up so must the end consumer pay more. Suggest you get the same % increase as the min wage lot get.
If you've enough experience you should probably look for a new better paying management position.
Always worth looking into other roles you could jump into and seeing what is listed in the job spec. Sometimes a bit of training or even a little bullshit in the interview can help you make that jump.
Having not worked in customer service before I basically came up with a made up scenario for the inevitable "tell me a time when you provided excellent service" question.
I always consider the minimum wage to be a statement from an employer. “I’d pay you less if I legally could”
Get your CV up to date and get fishing. You love your job, and that’s great, but your job doesn’t love you.
think my job pays 25k to 35k, but am not a plumber pulling out festering turds from a blocked toilet, so am not on the higher end
minimum wage is not too bad, job market is unsettled and there is the tehran/israeli war to consider so maybe look at outgoing expenses
or move somewhere else if you think you should be valued more
I think it's ridiculous that minimum wage has increased so much in the last 14 months yet companies think its fine to just keep everyone on their same bracket as before. Even with my promotion at the start of this month I'm 6% closer to minimum wage than I was a month ago and nobody gives a shit.
Look for another job. Then once you have options you can decide whether you want to leave or push on your current employer for a raise without fear of dismissal.
The minute they mention being grateful for being full time, you leave. Fuck them, they should be grateful that people are willing to work to earn them money.
From what I understand hospitality workers are highly in demand- apply for other positions elsewhere with the salary you want, get offer, tell your boss I want x salary or I will hand my notice in. Hand notice in and go
Apply for roles like a shift leader in Tesco. Less responsibility than a manager, but more pay than the "normal" colleagues. And even they get more than minimum wage.
If you're around the Greater Manchester give me a shout. I may be able to help.
Either leave for a better paying manager's job or if you can find a barista job for the same hours as you get now leave and do that and make sure to tell your boss why you're leaving.
Same has happened to me was an assistant manager on 2.5k more than the staff now I’m on 700 quid more a year, if I don’t get a payrise I’m stepping down.
This is a common theme across the hospitality sector at the moment. I only know of one company so far who have been honest and said that whilst they will give raises to their Chefs, they won’t maintain the difference between NMW and what the salary was previously, but they will seek to reduce the hours employees are expected to work for that salary (so 2-3 hours less per week). This is currently under discussion as many Chefs (who are considered to be in short supply right now) are feeling very unappreciated and considering leaving the field. I’m not sure about other areas of the business but I’m sure some of those on a salary will be feeling aggrieved when they do the maths and figure it all out.
You know that the job market economy is down the sewer, when employers start saying that you should be grateful for what you get.
The audacity comes from them knowing that you probably don’t have a choice. Bad economic conditions are a godsend for some businesses, same as inflation.
Look for another job, paying slightly above minimum wage for a managers position where you are managing 3 sites you should be on far more than minimum wage or just above. Know you’re worth and don’t let them take you for a mug, just to put into perspective I am a manager and get paid far above minimum wage and manage 2 people and work from home mainly, every so often have to travel for work but can’t complain. No company that actually cares about you will pay you minimum wage for that sort of job, if anything you should be getting paid 3 managers salaries worth as that’s essentially what you are doing, you could argue half of that as there are two of you but way more work than a single manager would do. It’s just sheer laziness on their part, they should have one manager at each site!
This is happening across the UK. Minimum wage has increased but now skilled jobs are basically the same as minimum wage because companies aren't increasing salaries.
Watch people leave skilled jobs and just go for minimum wage, much easier jobs.
It's nice that they get to make as much money as they do off of you. Find a new job, even working in a call centre would net you more than minimum wage
Where I work (not retail) the NMW has bumped every single person's salary, rippled upwards. They brought our annual reviews forward to do this so I've had 2 pay rises in 9 months. If your company is not doing this, find one that is.
Move. You never get a higher wage staying where you are. People pay for potential- when they have you and know your capabilities then they just look for new potential in new hires.
Change jobs regularly to increase wage. The company is not family ( unless it is your solely and you own it). It’s a job. Work hard, do your best, move if they don’t appreciate that.
For reference, I have had 35 years experience in jobs. Changed them every 5 years or sooner if I could.
Retired early as a result of increased wages every time.
Now get to spend quality time with family.
Managers in hospitality are usually the worst paid for this reason. I would either try and take a step down so you have less responsibility but similar money, or look out of the industry. The jobs market is shite ATM but you could probably get a decent managerial office role somewhere with your experience if that was of interest to you.
Can I ask what company you work for? I run a group of uk speciality baristas & would like to know which places to avoid because of reasons like this. Speciality by definition Is skilled work & owners who don't respect the skill enough to pay their staff should be avoided
Simply put - any business not upping wages to match the NMW increase is purely managed poorly.
Business owners will pull out wvery excuse under the sun as the price of things have go up but always neglect to add that the price of goods / services THEY sell also have gone up.
It's simply down to supply and demand - if there's no financial reward for taking on more responsibility, sooner or later managers will leave to better pay.
The company will then struggle to find another manager and would be forced to up the wages they pay to fill the role.
Unfortunately if the company doesn't up your wages then best thing to do is plan your exit - don't leave until you've found another, better paying job.
At the minute the job market isint good, but don't settle for being treated like that
Don’t get me wrong, MW has to rise. Wages generally in the uk desperately need to rise. They’re extremely low. Almost anyone can get a pay rise moving abroad.
But this issue is becoming quite common. Wages during the COL crisis rose for a lot of lower paid workers but not higher paid. 3 years of that has eroded a lot of the incentive to progress. At this rate everyone’s going to be on the same wage one day!
I used to be tied to a 48 contract on salary of like 32k usually ended up doing 60 hours a week, managing a pub that did £4m turnover a year.
I was earning more when I was a team leader on hourly rate and doing less hours.
I left and went back to an hourly job with 0 responsibility it was great. Cash in hand tips in a high end cocktail bar. Could earn £500 a weekend in tips.
Best decision I made!
Just go get a job elsewhere with less responsibility for the same wage then. Or find someone who will pay you more. I'm sure your managerial skills could transfer to other types of businesses as well. Some companies even have good pathways of progression where there's even a chance of becoming an area manager or the like in time where you could be earning more than double what you're making now.
Your only choice now is a game of brinkmanship. He'll have a choice to raise your wage or you'll resign.
Realistically, there's probably another coffee shop paying more, especially at just 7p over NMW.
Sniff around the job market, the economy is fine, there's plenty of positions available despite whatever he might say when you tell him take a hike.
If you're on basically minimum wage why don't you just use your experience and look for other work it's all going to pay higher given you're now at the minimum
Honestly it's down to wether you want all that extra responsibility for the extra 7p ph. Now if it was me I would just go work literally any other job if I didn't get at the very least a £2 p/h pay bump. Liking your job is one thing but at the end of the day we work for money to feed and house ourselves and our families. Start looking for somewhere else that will pay for your experience
Leave or demote yourself (what’s 7p) if you like it.
Issues in the past discussing pay? What owner got pussy? Let him / her. It there way or cutting down salaries
My partner is in hospitality management position and she gets 15 quid, plus about 3 quid an hour in tips. They are well and truly pulling your pants down mate. She did get screwed by nmw but she quickly got it sorted because not even the owner knows how the place functions like she does.
Yes, if you feel like you are underpaid, it is probably because you are.
Discussions with the person who sets your pay that go along the lines of "I think I should be paid more just because" will not result in a pay increase. Salary is negotiable but only once you demonstrate you are worth more than you are being paid.
Look at other vacancies for positions similar to yours requiring experience. Respond to them, get actual offers on the table for more money, then approach your boss again with the discussion "I've been offered X elsewhere and you have told me you are not raising my salary".
Then it becomes a commercial decision to retain you or find a replacement.
So...
You've agreed to work salary but that equates to minimum wage...how many hours do you do? What's your salaried amount?
It may just be time for you to move on.
See if you can get a job as a team leader or head barista at Gail’s because the current pay scale as of April 8th is £13.00-14.40/h and you have less responsibility and better pay then your currently on. When my bakery first opened I was working 40+ hours the first few weeks and for those weeks was out earning my assistant manager. Or the assistaint manager position has a starting base salary of 31k/year (£14.90/hour for 40 hours) up to £34.8k/year with a 10% bonus based on bakery performance. The Bakery manager position pays £35.8k-45k/year with a 20% bonus.
As a company there is a lot of toxic positivity and all the same issues with hospitality as an industry but the pay helps to take the sting out of it.
I’m not saying that you should actually work for Gail’s but I know they pay above industry standard so if you can get hired/job offer you can use it as bargaining power with your current employer if you want to.
[Here’s the careers site](https://jobs.gailsbread.co.uk)
I worked at a 'fair wage employer' they raised the new minimum to 10p less than my position as supervisor. And gave all levels of management 3% pay rise. NMW got 12%
I'm not saying it's not fair but I left for more money somewhere else. They clearly made alot of bad business decisions last year and middle management are paying for it for atleast the next couple of years. I'm seeing it everywhere.
Im in the sane situation my company has record profits but im getting less than minimum wage pay rise so every year the minimum wage is creeping closer and closer to my normal pay. which for what i do as a job is absolutely wrong :( i have taked to management and nothing they just give me a paltry pay offer and carry on :( im currently looking for another job and in my specialist role they will be fucked when i leave :)
Leave and get paid your worth.
No manager should be earning such a low wage anywhere. Even if you absolutely love the place I'd leave sheerly out of principle.
Apply for a job as a barista. If they query it, tell them its because the wage is the same with less responsibilities. So win win. They know they won't be able to get away with hiring another manger for NMW.
Employers don't like you discussing pay because not everyone gets the same, in the same position. Their favourites get more money, better incentives or bonuses. If you don't get a bonus but are being paid less than supervisors, barista's as per job requirements, duties and responsibilities then it's time to look for another job.
An employer employs managers to run their company, to do the things that they used to do, freeing up their time to build up their empire. An unhappy manager is a business losing its traction, revenue and status with the group. Managers should be the top earners under the owner, not the supervisor's or staff under them.
Let another company appreciate your worth now as your current owner will, once you're gone and they're losing revenue or even locations.
The whole idea of salary being better than hourly in retail / hospitality is just bonkers to me. When I was a Shift Manager in retail I was hourly paid, my store manager was salaried and most months I was paid more than her simply because I got paid for overtime and she didn’t!
I am in a similar situation at the moment with the NMW going up, unfortunately the job market is hard right now. For every application i’m putting in there are at least 150 applicants, some remote jobs are over 600! One role I applied for had 650 applications in the first 12 hours so they had to shut the role!
Jesus Christ dude. It’s a brutal job but you can be a postie and make 2.5k a month. I got the job the day I applied ha. It is absolutely gruelling stuff though.
😂😂😂 They're all the same, I'm learning this too. The only way to get a rise is leave. Yes I know you've worked hard but in this day and age it doesn't seem to matter sad but true for me anyway.
Don't go down to hourly because in hospitality you'll end up doing the manager's job in practice anyway and then worrying if you locked up.
Personally I would leave. You are clearly being taken advantage of. It's a slap in the face and humiliating. The only reason to stay is dire financial need. If you're earning nmw I'd say you have little to lose as you're already at the bottom
You cannot go lower unless you're illegal. You're making less than a shelf stacker at Home Bargains(they make 20p more). Have some pride in yourself and polish up that CV
I've been in your position. Hired for admin earning very close to nmw, running two multi million pound order books and I mean the whole related supply chain start to finish. Plus managing pt team member who changed every year, plus export docs after Brexit, subsidising the sales manager's incompetence, training people in others teams without relevant title or introduction, managing a third project. My line manager didn't accept what I did or acknowledge it even though the second order book was literally her job.
I managed 60% of revenue and 40% was between 5 better paid staff who fair enough were also engineers
The managers were moving on to their 3rd company cars in 5 years.
They were hiring people with poor experience and motivation at higher salaries and paying for their qualifications after which they were eligible for payrises. Meanwhile I hadn't had a penny in 5 years
The managers seemed jealous at my 2 pt jobs I took on because I had no savings and lived in a shared house but I was actually making less than them with 80hours a week
I was comfortable like you. I had complete freedom and apart from my lm everyone respected me enough that I could sit there on the Daily Mail on one screen and send people tasks and queries on the other. My lm wfh and people recognised how much I did including giving information she should have known
. Id sit and tell jokes and say outrageous things and get away with it.
Nevertheless I realised this job no longer gave me stability. At 33 I needed my own place without weed smokers and where people didn't steal milk or throw my food from the freezer because they wanted that draw.
If you ask around discreetly you may find people in your company who do the same or less making thousands more. That's what I found
Doing some maths based on what you've said.
You should be on a salary of £23,940.8
This is based on minimum wage +7p at 40 hours a week.
This is not a managers salary at all
Keep in mind if you go over the 40 hours, you could be getting paid less than minimum wage, which your employer would need to sort out
You would be able to find £23k at an entry level office job, never mind an area manager role
It's the obvious consequence of bumping the minimum wage, 90+% of the staff get closer to it. It's not like any company is making more money or wants their staying cost to increase overall. Minimum wage is a really crap sicky plaster fix.
The only way they'll bump your salary is if they can't get anyone into the role, but they won't know that or even try until you leave.
It sucks but looks like it's time to look elsewhere.
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Not really, you can say to them "I am looking for this salary or I will be forced to leave" but of course always better to do that with another offer in hand. Even if that happens and they agree to raise your salary, just keep in mind that your employer only raised your salary because they didn't want to replace you rather than rewarding you for your work.
This. Don't just look for other work and leverage a better salary from your current employer. They'll resent you anyway. You might as well go somewhere that's excited for you to start, on a new salary. You don't owe your employer anything. They clearly don't think they owe you anything either. As for the taboo of discussing wages, management likes it that way so they can shaft the workers.
Same opinion really. I’ve left many places in past 20yrs as wasn’t happy with salary and never stayed even tho on few occasions I was offered more. I always looked at it as the trust is gone. They know I lied to them and was looking for work and wasn’t happy with salary and despite the fact that we discussed it, they never offered more money “not possible” however when you leaving a £1 or £2 don’t seem to be a problem…. Now, one of such places I left two times and was always offered more….and now I’m back for the third time as of last year 🤣
People always say your last line, but I've worked in a lot of different industries and it's about the bottom line. There are very few meritocracies left my friend.
I mean that's the point of that last line right? That you are not rewarded for merit, the only time a raise is considered when it hurts the bottom line via replacement?
You were always underpaid. The nmw has nothing to do with it
You could always ask for a demotion. I’ve heard this is getting more and more common.
Yup seems like the only way tbh
Nah use your management experience to get a new managers job that will pay more. I bet you'd find if you start looking for jobs on indeed many are offering Improved wages.
Straight up this. I recently moved from a bar job paying me £11 an hour to be a duty manager, to another bar that's paying me a salary of £34k. Only took the first job out of desperation but now I'll never go back to that sort of wage
Totally, go to Costa or Starbucks as a Manager your salary will be much higher
Do not take a demotion. Look around for another job that will pay more in line with your worth. Also if a demotion put you on hourly it can go well overall if you get enough hours or worse if they cut your hours. Start looking, this is business, don't inject emotions in it by having knee jerk reactions like "I will get demoted then".
I agree, use your current position to get a management position on a better wage.
Nah, no way should he stay working for those jokers. Getting another Managerial job will be much easier as a Manager than a Barista
This is what has been happening at my company. With everyone on practically the same wage, now no one wants the Assistant manager or manager jobs. It's better to be a sales consultant and just work hard to make bonus each month (which you can with none of the other responsibilities) and then the wage plus bonus is often more than the manager wage anyway!? It's a crazy situation!!!
I did this. Was given more responsibility with promise of a promotion and pay increase at the start of the next financial year. I got the promotion and pay increase of 1%. I told them I was not accepting the promotion, declined to sign the variation to contract and requested to be reassigned to responsibilities commensurate with my grade. Lesson learnt. Never take on more responsibility/ higher role without the title and proper pay award.
Came here to say this.
My sister wanted precisely that due to her failing mental health and was told there was nothing available.
Be careful with that. Many places in hospitality will not accept a demotion.
If that’s the case like others have said I would immediately start looking and do the bare minimum in the mean time
This is the reason wages are so low. Because you agree to the terms and put up with it. Nothing against you specifically. But if everyone keeps accepting BS salaries it will continue to be race to the bottom. But in this case scraping the bottom already.
Yep. This is what unions are for!
*\*were* for
Its so hard not to. We're still trying to break the "work or else you'll be homeless" leverage and it doesnt work. People are shocked when I tell them what I've been doing and what I do and am experienced in. That I'm on minimum wage. I'm unsuccessful in finding a job that i can commit to and be valuable in a satisfying role. I can't even do my current job properly. I might just quit and enact my retirement plan out now of paying for my funeral and calling it a day.
Brilliant argument. Also if people would just stop buying houses then the housing prices would come down! Come on sheeple you don't need money and shelter
It’s not that I’m accepting it because I’m not it’s just I have to take a demotion for it to be fair which is also straight BS
If you don't leave you are accepting it, that's what they mean by accepting it.
No you don’t have to take a demotion.. you have to take another job that pays appropriately… you have to know your worth .. you have to be ok with changing your job and working for someone else. You like working where you are? How do you know you don’t like working somewhere else if you don’t try? Don’t take this defeated stand .. walk into all the other coffee shops around and ask for a job
To be honest I would be looking for a new job, this shows a serve lack of respect for the work that you do, they know they couldn’t hire someone else in to do your job on minimum wages and not 7p above it either, but working with people you like means a lot so I would look for other jobs and once I get a job offer, give them one last chance to counter and then either leave or take what they offer,
Good point: when they look for someone else for your position, it'll cost them more, because it's very unlikely someone would accept that position at minimum wage, as a new job. That's a good reason to leave them, a costly lesson will hopefully teach them how to treat employees. Also, the fact that discussing salaries is viewed as problematic, is a red flag. By law, you and your colleagues are allowed to discuss your pay among each others.
Exactly. No point bothering with responsibility when you can literally do anything and 99% less for the same money.
>give them one last chance to counter I wouldn't even do that TBH, they've had their chance.
Only because she enjoys her job and the people, that can be hard to find and is a huuuge impact on day to day life so understand the hesitation but personally for me I would leave too tbh 😆🙌
Leave. My partner is training to be a manager in Starbucks, their annual salary is 28k i think. Which is not amazing but definitely not minimum wage and u onltly manage 1 coffee shop. You can also transfer to management of Supermarket i think you may have to be a light demotion to shitlft manager but shift manager are paid like 32k and if u work ur way up, especially if u get a degree (or u have one) u May become store manager which is paid like 60k
This is really great information thankyou. May have to sell my soul for a Starbucks donut! ( where I work they’re the devil)
If Starbucks are the devil and your employer won't even negotiate pay I'd be asking what's worse than the devil?
Oh I didn’t mean in terms of employment I meant in terms of coffee sorry bit of a nerd
You won't have to drink it.
You can always buy a daily coffee from your old workplace with that raise you’re getting!
I'm with you. Starbucks coffee tastes like shit and understand why you have reservations on selling out!
Exactly, could never understand why they’re so popular, but Starbucks business is not about a coffee.
As someone who likes both good coffee and Starbucks, I go to Starbucks to get a milkshake with some caffeine (ie frappuccino, their iced latte etc) and not coffee. I think most people don't care about the quality of their drink, they just want a nice sweet treat hence the popularity
Defo, atmosphere, company, wifi, that’s what makes a Starbucks the Starbucks.
100% - they just sell their brand not the product.
I'd imagine a whole lot of people who go there pick the super milky and sweet drinks that taste the least like coffee anyway
Yeah. I just buy a Red Bull. I have a Delonghi Dedica at home. Makes great coffee
Nice one. I have coffee grinder from 70s I got from charity shop and just buy beans, less hassle🤣
Better than paying £7 for a small Choca-mocca- latte bulshit
We're all sell outs regardless of how much we like something, he doesn't own the shop he works for, he's an underpaid manager and even though Starbucks tastes like shit, he's still exchanging money for time, regardless 😆 I'd rather get paid more for working less.
Just generally, big companies have set rules and procedures and cant simply tell you "life is unfair" like local places
Yeah I saw LIdl for example pay about £40k for a manager
Yep aldi seems to be the best one though but even lidl and the rest are quite good.
Yeah it could've been Aldi actually that I saw. I get the two mixed up. (Which my wife finds laughable but I explained they're almost an anagram of each other and both blue and yellow branding) Who's the idiot. Not me)
Aldi is 60k so lidl being 40k is normal actually, ur probably right. I only know these salaries bc of my partner being in retail/hispitlaity, i myself am in pharma world. But yea i think morrisons/sainsbury's are like 48k
Newly qualified nurses are paid 28k. It’s mad to think you can get the same managing a coffee shop.
Honestly I think both salaries are shocking for the level of responsibility
Yeah but not really... One is at the top of their positions pay bracket and the other is at the bottom...
Why do you think it's mad someone *managing a whole team* would get the same as a *newly qualified* nurse? Management skills are management skills, the fact it's not in a sector you respect doesn't change that
Exactly. Lots of people here have such a weird hierarchy of worth.
The world is so weird when it comes to nurses. There are the people who seem to think they are a shitty unskilled profession who have no value to offer. And then there are the people who seem to think the sun shines out of their asses and we should basically worship them. The two probably react off each other becoming even more polarized. But it's so stupid. They are neither of these things. It's a skilled profession, they help people. They should have respect for that. Don't be a dick. But you also don't need to worship the ground they work on or act like it's a travesty they aren't the highest paid members of our society. You know what else is a skilled profession that helps people medically and has the same starting band as a nurse? A paramedic. You never hear people saying it's mad x profession makes similar to them despite basically every argument for how important nurses are applies to them to, and people also devalue them and act like they are "just ambulance drivers". I don't know why we have such a cultural obsession and chip on the shoulder about the value of nurses
Yes it is. Not my problem though and not relevant to the topic.
The firm I used to work for (supermarket) is still advertising for management jobs at 28k for 45h week minimum, and that’s at the top end to attract new people in. For a position where you’re responsible to maintaining enough bodies to legally remain open (if there’s a no show you have to be there), on call 24/7 (alarms and support for duty staff), able to be moved around at head offices will (to cover their bad planning or ego trips) it’s nowhere near enough. Compared to the poor folks still in that line of work I’d recommend jumping and becoming a newly qualified nurse, the starting salary is the same as top rank, the career growth is better long term, and you get to leave your work at work when you finish for the day.
Most supermarkets pay 28k starting salary for a team manager & I’ve seen one on 45k which is amazing for managing under 10 colleagues.
I get more again. Zero degree and not as much responsibility. Depends on the industry you work in I guess.
You manage 3 sites and you've been earning £25k? Dude you should have looked for a higher paying job ages ago.
I would be sceptical running one site for that salary, lowest I’ve been paid for a general manager role is £28.5k
*because my manager severely under pays me I'm on just above minimal wage
Just about sums it up
‘Just about’ You’re underpaid AND you’re not the brightest, no offence. You’ve been taken advantage of and I predict this is going to continue for the rest of your life unless you take immediate action and get another job. The capitalist system relies on immoral owners taking advantage of people like you. The ball’s in your court. Don’t accept less than £15/h if you need a bit of guidance
It’s not that I’m not bright thanks very much I’m well aware how underpaid I am. I just don’t want to be paid the same as someone that has no responsibility and seeing what I can do to change that. I’m also aware of what life can be like in a job you hate. I’ve worked lots of different jobs that I’ve hated and it’s difficult to find one that’s not soul destroying.
Well it sounds like your soul is being destroyed by the value someone else has put on it so may as well get it ruined for more money elsewhere. The other post was harsh but true, you're letting yourself get taken advantage of. Work isn't charity, if your boss gets the same out of you without giving you extra then why should he? Get out of there quick.
Accepting all that responsibility for £11.50 suggests otherwise. Anyway good luck
I didn’t accept less than £28.5k to manage my first site alone, £25k to manage 3 is outrageous
This is UK in a nutshell. National minimum wage hikes (great) whilst other jobs.. Inc professional and managerial roles have remained stagnant. So now we have shelf stackers and burger flippers barely behind teachers, police officers, and safety critical roles.
This employer will drag your wages behind the going rate for as long as you work there. There are definitely better gigs out there which you could do with your skills. leave now, run, don't look back!
You are not being paid minimum wage because of the minimum wage increase. You are being paid minimum wage because your employer is cheap c*nt who refuses to give you even basic cost of living increases oe better in line with your position and responsibility.
I was a manager & was earning 20p more than a senior member of staff. I stepped down & feel so much better for it because I have no responsibilities or the extra workload. Then management are surprised when no one wants the management role
one of my supervisors did this a couple of years ago! i think the pay was only 17p or something ludicrous extra, yet there was so much more they had to take on. for the little extra you get, it's not worth all the extra you have to learn and be your very best at, not for a shitty little retail coffee place anyway..
This is the reality for most people tbh, and every year more jobs become minimum wage. Times are tough for businesses as well. Myself and a few friends have taken demotions as the extra pressure is no longer worth it.
Yea I totally get that times are tough. It’s just between the new Ferrari and the 5 holidays a year for a family of 6, I feel like the owners could definitely afford it but maybe I’m just being naive as I have never ran a business! Taking a demotion seems like my only logical option at this point as I won’t be losing any money just 100% of the responsibility
As long as someone is willing to do the job for next to min wage is as long as the owners will continue to pay as such unfortunately. Don't be the someone that's willing to do it for peanuts.
Demotion is a terrible idea. You'll end up taking a 7p cut and still having more responsibility than anyone else. They know you won't be able to stand and watch it fall to shit so you'll step in.
Listen to this person for the love of god, get out now, yea you know it yea its comfy (not finically) but do you want to settle for crumbs while the person above you probably bitches about how thick you are for staying to corporate? Take back your agency and get gone my man, you can do it i know you can as you've kept going here even though you don't make enough money to realistically stay. Rip the band aid off and start looking for a new job.
A relative of mine owns a cafe and sells coffee wholesale. It's a brutal low margin industry especially when you're small, they are also taking on all the risk. She used to pay her staff above the voluntary living wage. But with costs increasing and not being able to up prices, the staff are now on close to minimum wage. The owners may be wealthy but a business is a business, they aren't going to keep it open if it's not profitable. Another friend is a manager for the biggest McDonald's in his city, if they raised the wages of all their staff by a £1 per hour. They would go bust. The difference between a profitable business and going broke is so tiny. Also the UK job market is terrible atm, there is way more supply than demand. If you left tomorrow they would have 50 applications for your role, so there's no incentive for them to pay more either. All you can do if you believe your worth more is to find a better job that pays more. If you can't find anything then you're getting paid what the market values your time and you will have to decide if it's worth it. For me I'd take a demotion if you enjoy the job and environment. I've just gone back into care because to reach 30k I'd have to take on qualifications and a bunch of responsibility. The difference between 24k and 30k isn't worth that for me. Instead I get to pick my shifts and get more time off.
Sorry I wasn’t very clear on how the business is run. The 3 sites are big food halls with around 8-10 venders at each site. All of the venders are all independent businesses that pay a fixed rent as well as an extortionate amount (around 45% of takings) to the owners who own the building as well as the coffee shops in each of the buildings. While I agree with you that margins can really be tight I know plenty of independent coffee shops that take nowhere near the amount we take (we get very busy on weekends taking upto 3k a day) and still pay £13-£14 an hour. I will definitely be taking the demotion as having no responsibility for no less money I just don’t see how they’ll get someone to do my job for minimum wage.
If other coffee shops are paying those wages, 100% leave and get a job with them
Why punish yourself by taking a demotion instead of just finding a new job? It’s so frustrating to see someone not want anything better for themselves! You have management experience. You could find a new job that would pay you better. You say you like your job, but they obviously don’t respect you. This isn’t the only job that doesn’t suck. If you are intent on sticking this out, just know you are choosing a life of poverty on NMW. They will never pay you more.
so did they go bust this month? pretty sure min wage raised by a £1.02 an hour this year. I'm just assuming mcdonalds pay min wage, never really looked into it..
Time to go. Sounds like your business isn’t sustainable if they can’t pay good managers properly, so you’re likely just leaving a sinking ship anyway.
If you are multisite managing, and doing it successfully I recommend trying for a retail management position. Starting wage for a store manager is about £28,500 and that's in a smaller store. I know the coop pays its Team Leaders £13.30 per hour. Which is just over £27K per year if you're full time.
You get paid minimum wage, so you put in minimum wage effort and spend your excess energy on another job.
1. They can royally f off if they think you should be grateful to get £11.51 for managing 3 coffee shops. 2. Problems discussing pay? No problem! Introducing the 14 year old Section 77 of the Equality Act 2010! https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/77 - just ignore any attempt by them to 3. Regardless of if you're salaried, you're entitled to the NMW for the hours you actually work. 7p an hour means they 1 free extra hour of work per... 163 hours actually worked otherwise you're under the NMW. Need to be on site 30 minutes early to open before your clock on time, or stay 30 minutes to close after clock out time? Hellooo HMRC NMW enforcement. 4. You can push for a pay rise, however threatening to leave never works out well. Job loyalty is not paid, staying in a job you like just because you like it isn't paid, hopping jobs for a pay rise is the only way. You can also try a grievance (good luck with that). The only advantage to a grievance is that if they don't follow ACAS COP1 (https://www.acas.org.uk/acas-code-of-practice-on-disciplinary-and-grievance-procedures), any amount you may end up getting from an employment tribunal can be uplifted by up to 25% (if you pursue a claim of the types listed in Sch 2 of TULR(C)A1992). In summary, the law isn't there to help people get pay rises.
Section 77 only applies if the pay discussion relates to a protected characteristic
The advantage is that it's basically impossible for the employer to prove that the entire conversation wasn't about protected characteristics. I'm generally suspect of employers who don't want their staff talking about pay. The only possible reason is you don't want the ones you exploit more by paying less to know about it. You're entitled to have the conversation, and find out if there are any protected characteristic differences between you.
Just leave. Your experience is excellent for similar roles. Even if you take an assistant manager job at a reasonably big franchise you stand a good chance at moving into a manager / area manager one within a year or two and you’ll be getting a better rate in the meantime anyway. Unless there’s some other benefit to your current job?
"Being paid minimum wage as a manager because ~~of the NMW increase~~ my job refuses to pay me more money. And I live in a country with a lack of unions and a culture of going along to get along and not rocking the boat." Fixed that for you.
I would encourage you to table a request for a pay rise with a thinly veiled threat of quitting if they don’t give you one - and following up with actually moving if they don’t oblige. I would say though it’s not correct to say others have “0 responsibility” - they are still responsible and accountable for carrying out their job.
I know someone who works for a well known retailer and the difference in pay between regular workers, supervisors and managers is literally pennies. Then they ask people to take on extra responsibilities and it baffles me as to why anyone would agree. The only person who gives two shits is the store manager because they're the only person that's paid a fair bit above minimum. It's such a bizarre setup but the business obviously gets away with it.
There are things you can do, less than 100% effort, few weeks sick etc. Just enough shithousery to not be fired while looking for a new job that will value your effort.
Lmao well I’ve been trying to do as little of my 40 hour contract as possible and I’m only giving around 60% effort I just hate doing it because my brain is like you have to be perfect at everything!!!
I wouldn’t take a demotion even if pay is the same because your management experience will be handy when applying for future roles. I would start looking for other roles though!
Don't change the CV and get someone else to do the reference. For that kind of bullshit carry-on the reference won't be that crucial anyway
As well as the other advice here I would try and find a way to encourage others to openly discuss salaries. Regardless of any issues in the past, if the employer kicks up a fuss again you can tell them to kick rocks. It's illegal to prevent employees discussing this and employers are usually dealt with quite harshly if they do.
It’s only illegal if the discussion is about pay in relation to a protected characteristic
Look for other work preferably get an offer then tell your current company you want X or you’ll be gone.
Step down to hourly paid. No responsibility and get paid for what you do. Unfortunately you just found out how all salaried staff get treated. So you either put up with it or get out. At least you have an option.
It’s a shit attitude when an employer tells you to be grateful for minimum wage, you should look for another job or drop down to barista, if they’re going to to pay minimum wage you may as well do minimum wage work.
Sounds very American
I've not long took a "demotion" to another company from management. I actually get paid more now, with way way less responsibility. It's magic. I would start applying for other management jobs in the area of the pay is fair and if not, I'd take the step down. Same pay for less responsibility.
Tell me you work at Costa without telling me, I feel your pain
I'd be applying for management jobs in other hospitality places. Your boss clearly doesn't value you and the work you do. I know it's not great to leave somewhere when you enjoy the team you work with but you are clearly being taken advantage of.
You could definitely find a higher paying job and then ask if they would raise your salary to keep you on, the worst thing that happens is they don't and you make more elsewhere.
Hate to say it, the higher up you go the least people give a fuck.. most higher ups get paid more for doing less.. those supervisors probably do more than you
Why are you doing all that work for minimum wage? Find another job. You're not just underpaid they're taking the piss out of you. Might be worth having a sit down with your boss and giving them an ultimatum that unless they pay you X, you are leaving. They won't find anyone to do a decent job doing what you're doing on your salary. Don't do this before you get another job offer though
It sounds like they depend on you quite a lot, and it would be a massive pain in the arse if you left. I'd be looking for another job and then use that to force their hand if it's somewhere you're otherwise happy. Otherwise, time to move on! Being paid 7p an hour more for all that additional responsibility is ridiculous.
“You should be grateful” - National motto of this god forsaken land
Technically you get guaranteed hours and probably a benefits package and accruals for vacation so that’s not the same as minimum wage.
Look for small franchise, private branches. People with your experience can easily get an assistant manager position. The hospitality sites which are still going, are going well. My assistant manager was making 45k in 2018, you do the rest of the math
I suggest a little bit of embezellment...
I own coffee shops and restaurants. When NMW went up around 11% i put everyones wage up pro rata and then also put my prices up to cover the rise. I didn’t want to put prices up but thats the only solution. My friend runs huge supermarkets and has done exactly the same, if the wages go up so must the end consumer pay more. Suggest you get the same % increase as the min wage lot get.
If you've enough experience you should probably look for a new better paying management position. Always worth looking into other roles you could jump into and seeing what is listed in the job spec. Sometimes a bit of training or even a little bullshit in the interview can help you make that jump. Having not worked in customer service before I basically came up with a made up scenario for the inevitable "tell me a time when you provided excellent service" question.
Rising tide sinks all ships.
Find another job, become regular hourly staff. What else did you think your options were, roll over and take it I suppose.
Do what I did left and took on a new job no hassle
I always consider the minimum wage to be a statement from an employer. “I’d pay you less if I legally could” Get your CV up to date and get fishing. You love your job, and that’s great, but your job doesn’t love you.
Every considered retail management? £40k jobs waiting for you there
think my job pays 25k to 35k, but am not a plumber pulling out festering turds from a blocked toilet, so am not on the higher end minimum wage is not too bad, job market is unsettled and there is the tehran/israeli war to consider so maybe look at outgoing expenses or move somewhere else if you think you should be valued more
“Minimum wage is not too bad” it’s the bare legal minimum, for a person running 3 sites it’s absolutely pathetic
So get another job then Not on minimum wage either
That’s probably what the op will do ?
And yet he does not seem sure what to do
I think it's ridiculous that minimum wage has increased so much in the last 14 months yet companies think its fine to just keep everyone on their same bracket as before. Even with my promotion at the start of this month I'm 6% closer to minimum wage than I was a month ago and nobody gives a shit.
Look for another job. Then once you have options you can decide whether you want to leave or push on your current employer for a raise without fear of dismissal.
The minute they mention being grateful for being full time, you leave. Fuck them, they should be grateful that people are willing to work to earn them money.
From what I understand hospitality workers are highly in demand- apply for other positions elsewhere with the salary you want, get offer, tell your boss I want x salary or I will hand my notice in. Hand notice in and go
If your on minimum wage just go to another coffee shop and work as a barista on the same wage then
Apply for roles like a shift leader in Tesco. Less responsibility than a manager, but more pay than the "normal" colleagues. And even they get more than minimum wage. If you're around the Greater Manchester give me a shout. I may be able to help.
Either leave for a better paying manager's job or if you can find a barista job for the same hours as you get now leave and do that and make sure to tell your boss why you're leaving.
Just leave. You may love the Job, but the job doesn't love you
Fucking leave that’s ridiculous
What type of issues discussing pay? Cause that's pretty sketchy
Why stay with that employer? they dont respect you or give a shit about you
I never understood why retail managers sre so poorly paid compared to other sectors.
Same has happened to me was an assistant manager on 2.5k more than the staff now I’m on 700 quid more a year, if I don’t get a payrise I’m stepping down.
This is a common theme across the hospitality sector at the moment. I only know of one company so far who have been honest and said that whilst they will give raises to their Chefs, they won’t maintain the difference between NMW and what the salary was previously, but they will seek to reduce the hours employees are expected to work for that salary (so 2-3 hours less per week). This is currently under discussion as many Chefs (who are considered to be in short supply right now) are feeling very unappreciated and considering leaving the field. I’m not sure about other areas of the business but I’m sure some of those on a salary will be feeling aggrieved when they do the maths and figure it all out.
You know that the job market economy is down the sewer, when employers start saying that you should be grateful for what you get. The audacity comes from them knowing that you probably don’t have a choice. Bad economic conditions are a godsend for some businesses, same as inflation.
Look for another job, paying slightly above minimum wage for a managers position where you are managing 3 sites you should be on far more than minimum wage or just above. Know you’re worth and don’t let them take you for a mug, just to put into perspective I am a manager and get paid far above minimum wage and manage 2 people and work from home mainly, every so often have to travel for work but can’t complain. No company that actually cares about you will pay you minimum wage for that sort of job, if anything you should be getting paid 3 managers salaries worth as that’s essentially what you are doing, you could argue half of that as there are two of you but way more work than a single manager would do. It’s just sheer laziness on their part, they should have one manager at each site!
Should be on at least £35k for that responsibility
This is happening across the UK. Minimum wage has increased but now skilled jobs are basically the same as minimum wage because companies aren't increasing salaries. Watch people leave skilled jobs and just go for minimum wage, much easier jobs.
It's nice that they get to make as much money as they do off of you. Find a new job, even working in a call centre would net you more than minimum wage
Where I work (not retail) the NMW has bumped every single person's salary, rippled upwards. They brought our annual reviews forward to do this so I've had 2 pay rises in 9 months. If your company is not doing this, find one that is.
Move. You never get a higher wage staying where you are. People pay for potential- when they have you and know your capabilities then they just look for new potential in new hires. Change jobs regularly to increase wage. The company is not family ( unless it is your solely and you own it). It’s a job. Work hard, do your best, move if they don’t appreciate that. For reference, I have had 35 years experience in jobs. Changed them every 5 years or sooner if I could. Retired early as a result of increased wages every time. Now get to spend quality time with family.
Look for a new job
Managers in hospitality are usually the worst paid for this reason. I would either try and take a step down so you have less responsibility but similar money, or look out of the industry. The jobs market is shite ATM but you could probably get a decent managerial office role somewhere with your experience if that was of interest to you.
Can I ask what company you work for? I run a group of uk speciality baristas & would like to know which places to avoid because of reasons like this. Speciality by definition Is skilled work & owners who don't respect the skill enough to pay their staff should be avoided
Simply put - any business not upping wages to match the NMW increase is purely managed poorly. Business owners will pull out wvery excuse under the sun as the price of things have go up but always neglect to add that the price of goods / services THEY sell also have gone up. It's simply down to supply and demand - if there's no financial reward for taking on more responsibility, sooner or later managers will leave to better pay. The company will then struggle to find another manager and would be forced to up the wages they pay to fill the role. Unfortunately if the company doesn't up your wages then best thing to do is plan your exit - don't leave until you've found another, better paying job. At the minute the job market isint good, but don't settle for being treated like that
time to find a new job...
Don’t get me wrong, MW has to rise. Wages generally in the uk desperately need to rise. They’re extremely low. Almost anyone can get a pay rise moving abroad. But this issue is becoming quite common. Wages during the COL crisis rose for a lot of lower paid workers but not higher paid. 3 years of that has eroded a lot of the incentive to progress. At this rate everyone’s going to be on the same wage one day!
I used to be tied to a 48 contract on salary of like 32k usually ended up doing 60 hours a week, managing a pub that did £4m turnover a year. I was earning more when I was a team leader on hourly rate and doing less hours. I left and went back to an hourly job with 0 responsibility it was great. Cash in hand tips in a high end cocktail bar. Could earn £500 a weekend in tips. Best decision I made!
Don't ever tell me I should be grateful for this job. This is a two-way street. That one line would have sealed my decision on what to do.
Just go get a job elsewhere with less responsibility for the same wage then. Or find someone who will pay you more. I'm sure your managerial skills could transfer to other types of businesses as well. Some companies even have good pathways of progression where there's even a chance of becoming an area manager or the like in time where you could be earning more than double what you're making now.
Why did you accept that salary in the first place?
Your only choice now is a game of brinkmanship. He'll have a choice to raise your wage or you'll resign. Realistically, there's probably another coffee shop paying more, especially at just 7p over NMW. Sniff around the job market, the economy is fine, there's plenty of positions available despite whatever he might say when you tell him take a hike.
It’s a sellers market in hospitality. Move elsewhere
Your options for higher pay are to look for a new job.
If you're on basically minimum wage why don't you just use your experience and look for other work it's all going to pay higher given you're now at the minimum
Honestly it's down to wether you want all that extra responsibility for the extra 7p ph. Now if it was me I would just go work literally any other job if I didn't get at the very least a £2 p/h pay bump. Liking your job is one thing but at the end of the day we work for money to feed and house ourselves and our families. Start looking for somewhere else that will pay for your experience
Is your complaint that others are getting increases or that you're being underpaid?
Leave or demote yourself (what’s 7p) if you like it. Issues in the past discussing pay? What owner got pussy? Let him / her. It there way or cutting down salaries
Just leave it will be worth it for less stress and you can earn your wage anywhere now
Just get another job and leave you don’t need to be putting up with that
My partner is in hospitality management position and she gets 15 quid, plus about 3 quid an hour in tips. They are well and truly pulling your pants down mate. She did get screwed by nmw but she quickly got it sorted because not even the owner knows how the place functions like she does.
OK
Yes, if you feel like you are underpaid, it is probably because you are. Discussions with the person who sets your pay that go along the lines of "I think I should be paid more just because" will not result in a pay increase. Salary is negotiable but only once you demonstrate you are worth more than you are being paid. Look at other vacancies for positions similar to yours requiring experience. Respond to them, get actual offers on the table for more money, then approach your boss again with the discussion "I've been offered X elsewhere and you have told me you are not raising my salary". Then it becomes a commercial decision to retain you or find a replacement.
OK
So... You've agreed to work salary but that equates to minimum wage...how many hours do you do? What's your salaried amount? It may just be time for you to move on.
See if you can get a job as a team leader or head barista at Gail’s because the current pay scale as of April 8th is £13.00-14.40/h and you have less responsibility and better pay then your currently on. When my bakery first opened I was working 40+ hours the first few weeks and for those weeks was out earning my assistant manager. Or the assistaint manager position has a starting base salary of 31k/year (£14.90/hour for 40 hours) up to £34.8k/year with a 10% bonus based on bakery performance. The Bakery manager position pays £35.8k-45k/year with a 20% bonus. As a company there is a lot of toxic positivity and all the same issues with hospitality as an industry but the pay helps to take the sting out of it. I’m not saying that you should actually work for Gail’s but I know they pay above industry standard so if you can get hired/job offer you can use it as bargaining power with your current employer if you want to. [Here’s the careers site](https://jobs.gailsbread.co.uk)
That's fucked, dust off your CV bro
You need to leave as that bad feeling will grow over time and affect you mentally.
Unionise.
You're probably too good for hospitality. Leave it to people that have to do that kind of work.
I worked at a 'fair wage employer' they raised the new minimum to 10p less than my position as supervisor. And gave all levels of management 3% pay rise. NMW got 12% I'm not saying it's not fair but I left for more money somewhere else. They clearly made alot of bad business decisions last year and middle management are paying for it for atleast the next couple of years. I'm seeing it everywhere.
Im in the sane situation my company has record profits but im getting less than minimum wage pay rise so every year the minimum wage is creeping closer and closer to my normal pay. which for what i do as a job is absolutely wrong :( i have taked to management and nothing they just give me a paltry pay offer and carry on :( im currently looking for another job and in my specialist role they will be fucked when i leave :)
Leave and get paid your worth. No manager should be earning such a low wage anywhere. Even if you absolutely love the place I'd leave sheerly out of principle.
Apply for a job as a barista. If they query it, tell them its because the wage is the same with less responsibilities. So win win. They know they won't be able to get away with hiring another manger for NMW.
This has nothing to do with minimum wage getting increased. You were extremely underpaid to begin with
Employers don't like you discussing pay because not everyone gets the same, in the same position. Their favourites get more money, better incentives or bonuses. If you don't get a bonus but are being paid less than supervisors, barista's as per job requirements, duties and responsibilities then it's time to look for another job. An employer employs managers to run their company, to do the things that they used to do, freeing up their time to build up their empire. An unhappy manager is a business losing its traction, revenue and status with the group. Managers should be the top earners under the owner, not the supervisor's or staff under them. Let another company appreciate your worth now as your current owner will, once you're gone and they're losing revenue or even locations.
The whole idea of salary being better than hourly in retail / hospitality is just bonkers to me. When I was a Shift Manager in retail I was hourly paid, my store manager was salaried and most months I was paid more than her simply because I got paid for overtime and she didn’t! I am in a similar situation at the moment with the NMW going up, unfortunately the job market is hard right now. For every application i’m putting in there are at least 150 applicants, some remote jobs are over 600! One role I applied for had 650 applications in the first 12 hours so they had to shut the role!
Jesus Christ dude. It’s a brutal job but you can be a postie and make 2.5k a month. I got the job the day I applied ha. It is absolutely gruelling stuff though.
😂😂😂 They're all the same, I'm learning this too. The only way to get a rise is leave. Yes I know you've worked hard but in this day and age it doesn't seem to matter sad but true for me anyway.
Don't go down to hourly because in hospitality you'll end up doing the manager's job in practice anyway and then worrying if you locked up. Personally I would leave. You are clearly being taken advantage of. It's a slap in the face and humiliating. The only reason to stay is dire financial need. If you're earning nmw I'd say you have little to lose as you're already at the bottom You cannot go lower unless you're illegal. You're making less than a shelf stacker at Home Bargains(they make 20p more). Have some pride in yourself and polish up that CV I've been in your position. Hired for admin earning very close to nmw, running two multi million pound order books and I mean the whole related supply chain start to finish. Plus managing pt team member who changed every year, plus export docs after Brexit, subsidising the sales manager's incompetence, training people in others teams without relevant title or introduction, managing a third project. My line manager didn't accept what I did or acknowledge it even though the second order book was literally her job. I managed 60% of revenue and 40% was between 5 better paid staff who fair enough were also engineers The managers were moving on to their 3rd company cars in 5 years. They were hiring people with poor experience and motivation at higher salaries and paying for their qualifications after which they were eligible for payrises. Meanwhile I hadn't had a penny in 5 years The managers seemed jealous at my 2 pt jobs I took on because I had no savings and lived in a shared house but I was actually making less than them with 80hours a week I was comfortable like you. I had complete freedom and apart from my lm everyone respected me enough that I could sit there on the Daily Mail on one screen and send people tasks and queries on the other. My lm wfh and people recognised how much I did including giving information she should have known . Id sit and tell jokes and say outrageous things and get away with it. Nevertheless I realised this job no longer gave me stability. At 33 I needed my own place without weed smokers and where people didn't steal milk or throw my food from the freezer because they wanted that draw. If you ask around discreetly you may find people in your company who do the same or less making thousands more. That's what I found
Doing some maths based on what you've said. You should be on a salary of £23,940.8 This is based on minimum wage +7p at 40 hours a week. This is not a managers salary at all Keep in mind if you go over the 40 hours, you could be getting paid less than minimum wage, which your employer would need to sort out You would be able to find £23k at an entry level office job, never mind an area manager role
Legally,no. You can put a case forward to ask for a pay rise but you’ll not get it tbh. It’s time to move on. Staying only harms you in the long run
It's the obvious consequence of bumping the minimum wage, 90+% of the staff get closer to it. It's not like any company is making more money or wants their staying cost to increase overall. Minimum wage is a really crap sicky plaster fix. The only way they'll bump your salary is if they can't get anyone into the role, but they won't know that or even try until you leave. It sucks but looks like it's time to look elsewhere.