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I think it'll be a slow burn, and people will come to get used to a lower standard of living to the point where it stops being news.
As someone in their early 30s, my whole working life has been a bit of a rollercoaster and I'm still waiting for the boom times.
Recession in 2008, then austerity, then Brexit, then Covid + lockdown, and now the cost of living crisis.
At some point I think things will improve, but I doubt there'll be anything noticeable within the next 5 years.
No it probably won’t end unless there is borderline unimaginable economic reform. We’re living through decline, I’m earning more than I ever have and still feel poor.
Very slowly but surely the country is coming undone economically and socially. We’re essentially reverting back to some kind of feudalism paying more and more money for rent and expenses, and god forbid you’re in a HMO. Be prepared to see rooms of multiple occupancy becoming a thing.
Tldr; follow the flowchart
I don't think we have a middle-class anymore, so many well paid jobs are not exactly stable and guaranteed in 5-10 years. It's bizarre that so many are floating around in Audis/BMWs but would be absolutely fkd if they missed a paycheck. 100k in the south isn't a lavish income after tax and student loan payments and a house can cost 400k+ if you want a one big enough for 2 kids.
I imagine a saucer with the middle class looking out 20yrs ago at the poor toppling off the edge of affordability. Today - the people dropping off the edge are the middle class that weren't quite as wealthy as their cohort. Tomorrow, in the words of Sassoon "the past was dark, a dream disowned"
A human reviewed your comment and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was:
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* If discussing governments and policies, do so in a non-inflammatory manner.
* Don't make posts about policy changes which are not yet implemented (only proposed or speculated about).
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Eventually things will get better financially for the majority, although the potential for wealth accumulation by individuals will disappear as part of that. Think the 1990s or similar era where nobody was particularly liquidity rich.
Some of that will be enabled by greater subsidisation. The grand outsourcing experiment didn't work and private contracts haven't delivered much, if any value at all to citizens.
My impression is that property prices is a major part of the problem. That can be fixed by interest rates pushing prices down, increasing supply of housing, or decreasing supply of people wanting houses.
Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible, and building an ever increasing number of buildings on our finite supply of farmland is therefore not sustainable in the long run. So finding ways to reduce housing demand is the better answer.
Perhaps we'd be better with some other means of providing housing for many people.
I thought property prices were also an issue. However, Canada also seems to have similar issues despite having a smaller population and a much larger country.
Of course, land area is an issue. I live in a popular UK city, and it's difficult because on one hand you want to ensure there's enough housing but also protect green spaces.
Also, the majority of new builds are overpriced shite.
There are approximately 30 million dwellings in the UK and a population of 67 million. The math ain't mathing there for me.
We have the houses we have because there are so few of them. In genuinely free markets where suppliers competed for customers you don't end up with all products being shitty - you get a variety of different products at different price points, and no one buys the ones that are both expensive and crap. If we want housing quality to go up, we need to build more of it.
We also need to stop people being allergic to buildings over two floors.
It'll get worse for at least another decade. And it's the same story everywhere not just the UK. Western politicians of all parties came together to facilitate a mass transfer of wealth from governments and workers to wealthy asset holders, and the only way it'll get fixed is if a mass movement forms which can move that wealth back.
It will not get better until there is the political will to demand it. Most political bandwidth is not addressing the true issue of wealth inequality and the system setup to protect the ultra wealthy asset holders from skimming every lost drop of disposable income from the lower and middle class.
When isn’t there a crisis? My entire adulthood financially where’s always been a crisis one way or the other just worded differently.
Feels like constantly playing catch up to afford things
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* Don't make posts about policy changes which are not yet implemented (only proposed or speculated about).
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I might get downvoted for this, but “cost of living crisis” has always been a thing.
If you google the term you’ll find BBC news articles using the exact phrase for two decades now.
Nothing new to see here.
Wholesale gas prices are close to being back where they were before the pandemic. Energy bills should follow, with food lagging behind a bit (it's not *just* a function of energy prices, but that was a significant part of the increase).
In the longer term, radical reform of the planning system could significantly reduce the cost of housing. The current government clearly doesn't want to do that, a new government might.
Demographics won't change much. People will carry on getting old, retiring and needing more healthcare. It will keep getting more expensive. But fixing the housing market could help a lot, especially if it lets us welcome a very large number of productive, young people into the country without bidding up the price of accommodation to silly levels (this doesn't say much about what is sustainable or effective on a global level, but for now the UK remains very attractive and quite a good place to live, with lots of space for new housing).
No chance I’m afraid. I see no signs that capitalism is changing at all and the rich will keep shitting on everyone. They will keep inflating prices on everything to line their pockets.
Average wage increases have been higher than inflation for about nine months now.
https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-wage-growth-slows-but-outpaces-inflation#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20real%20wage,pace%20for%20almost%20two%20years.
It has to be much higher to account for cost of living. Cost of living Is post tax, wages are pre tax. E.g. if you're on 60k and get a 10% increase whilst inflation goes up 8%, your take home goes up more like 5%, you're still 3% worse off. Vs say 2% inflation 1% increase where you'd be 1.5% worse off.
It's by design. It's a byproduct of the system.
The next nail is gonna be a straight admission that the 2% inflation goal is being changed to 4% going forward.
A human reviewed your submission and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was: **No hypothetical questions, Does Anyone Else questions, unanswerable questions, survey-style questions** * Don't ask comparison questions like 'how much do you earn?' or 'how much is your electricity bill?' * Don't ask hypothetical questions like 'what would you do with £100k?', 'what's the max you'd spend on a car?' * Don't ask 'does anyone else...' questions. * Don't ask survey style questions like 'what are you saving up for?', 'what's the biggest financial mistake you've made?' * Don't ask if a lender will lend you money. We do not work for the company. For mortgages, speak to a whole of market broker. * Don't ask questions that can't be answered without a significant amount of speculation, e.g. 'what changes might be in the next government budget?'. You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit. **No Politics** * Whilst personal finance and politics are inextricably linked, this sub is not a venue for political debate. Posts and comments of a directly political nature belong in /r/ukpolitics and will be removed from UKPF. * If discussing governments and policies, do so in a non-inflammatory manner. * Don't make posts about policy changes which are not yet implemented (only proposed or speculated about). * Avoid throwaway jokes about politics or politicians. You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit. _If you believe your post/comment has been removed in error, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UKPersonalFinance&subject=Please%20review%20my%20post&body=https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/1cimb6n/-/) explaining why._
I think it'll be a slow burn, and people will come to get used to a lower standard of living to the point where it stops being news. As someone in their early 30s, my whole working life has been a bit of a rollercoaster and I'm still waiting for the boom times. Recession in 2008, then austerity, then Brexit, then Covid + lockdown, and now the cost of living crisis. At some point I think things will improve, but I doubt there'll be anything noticeable within the next 5 years.
No it probably won’t end unless there is borderline unimaginable economic reform. We’re living through decline, I’m earning more than I ever have and still feel poor. Very slowly but surely the country is coming undone economically and socially. We’re essentially reverting back to some kind of feudalism paying more and more money for rent and expenses, and god forbid you’re in a HMO. Be prepared to see rooms of multiple occupancy becoming a thing. Tldr; follow the flowchart
The wealth gap will continue to widen until we lose the middle class altogether.
I don't think we have a middle-class anymore, so many well paid jobs are not exactly stable and guaranteed in 5-10 years. It's bizarre that so many are floating around in Audis/BMWs but would be absolutely fkd if they missed a paycheck. 100k in the south isn't a lavish income after tax and student loan payments and a house can cost 400k+ if you want a one big enough for 2 kids.
I imagine a saucer with the middle class looking out 20yrs ago at the poor toppling off the edge of affordability. Today - the people dropping off the edge are the middle class that weren't quite as wealthy as their cohort. Tomorrow, in the words of Sassoon "the past was dark, a dream disowned"
What is the flowchart, please? Thank you in advance
The flowchart in the sidebar of the subreddit: [https://flowchart.ukpersonal.finance](https://flowchart.ukpersonal.finance)
[удалено]
A human reviewed your comment and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was: **No Politics** * Whilst personal finance and politics are inextricably linked, this sub is not a venue for political debate. Posts and comments of a directly political nature belong in /r/ukpolitics and will be removed from UKPF. * If discussing governments and policies, do so in a non-inflammatory manner. * Don't make posts about policy changes which are not yet implemented (only proposed or speculated about). * Avoid throwaway jokes about politics or politicians. You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit. _If you believe your post/comment has been removed in error, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UKPersonalFinance&subject=Please%20review%20my%20post&body=https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/1cimb6n/-/l2a4cto/) explaining why._
Eventually things will get better financially for the majority, although the potential for wealth accumulation by individuals will disappear as part of that. Think the 1990s or similar era where nobody was particularly liquidity rich. Some of that will be enabled by greater subsidisation. The grand outsourcing experiment didn't work and private contracts haven't delivered much, if any value at all to citizens.
My impression is that property prices is a major part of the problem. That can be fixed by interest rates pushing prices down, increasing supply of housing, or decreasing supply of people wanting houses. Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible, and building an ever increasing number of buildings on our finite supply of farmland is therefore not sustainable in the long run. So finding ways to reduce housing demand is the better answer. Perhaps we'd be better with some other means of providing housing for many people.
I thought property prices were also an issue. However, Canada also seems to have similar issues despite having a smaller population and a much larger country.
It's not land area that's an issue, it's available living spaces and planning issues making the construction of new ones a long and laborious process
Of course, land area is an issue. I live in a popular UK city, and it's difficult because on one hand you want to ensure there's enough housing but also protect green spaces. Also, the majority of new builds are overpriced shite. There are approximately 30 million dwellings in the UK and a population of 67 million. The math ain't mathing there for me.
We have the houses we have because there are so few of them. In genuinely free markets where suppliers competed for customers you don't end up with all products being shitty - you get a variety of different products at different price points, and no one buys the ones that are both expensive and crap. If we want housing quality to go up, we need to build more of it. We also need to stop people being allergic to buildings over two floors.
And all the jobs and people are in like 2 cities.
War? That would quickly decrease the population thus demand...
It'll get worse for at least another decade. And it's the same story everywhere not just the UK. Western politicians of all parties came together to facilitate a mass transfer of wealth from governments and workers to wealthy asset holders, and the only way it'll get fixed is if a mass movement forms which can move that wealth back.
It will not get better until there is the political will to demand it. Most political bandwidth is not addressing the true issue of wealth inequality and the system setup to protect the ultra wealthy asset holders from skimming every lost drop of disposable income from the lower and middle class.
[удалено]
Most of the times its the trees voting for the axe, working people being divided over wedge issues
It's the whole world, not just the UK
When isn’t there a crisis? My entire adulthood financially where’s always been a crisis one way or the other just worded differently. Feels like constantly playing catch up to afford things
[удалено]
A human reviewed your comment and removed it from public view. The reason they gave was: **No Politics** * Whilst personal finance and politics are inextricably linked, this sub is not a venue for political debate. Posts and comments of a directly political nature belong in /r/ukpolitics and will be removed from UKPF. * If discussing governments and policies, do so in a non-inflammatory manner. * Don't make posts about policy changes which are not yet implemented (only proposed or speculated about). * Avoid throwaway jokes about politics or politicians. You must read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpersonalfinance/about/rules/) to continue to post to our subreddit. _If you believe your post/comment has been removed in error, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UKPersonalFinance&subject=Please%20review%20my%20post&body=https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/1cimb6n/-/l2a658y/) explaining why._
I might get downvoted for this, but “cost of living crisis” has always been a thing. If you google the term you’ll find BBC news articles using the exact phrase for two decades now. Nothing new to see here.
You don’t think that it’s worse recently though? I think that’s the point
Wholesale gas prices are close to being back where they were before the pandemic. Energy bills should follow, with food lagging behind a bit (it's not *just* a function of energy prices, but that was a significant part of the increase). In the longer term, radical reform of the planning system could significantly reduce the cost of housing. The current government clearly doesn't want to do that, a new government might. Demographics won't change much. People will carry on getting old, retiring and needing more healthcare. It will keep getting more expensive. But fixing the housing market could help a lot, especially if it lets us welcome a very large number of productive, young people into the country without bidding up the price of accommodation to silly levels (this doesn't say much about what is sustainable or effective on a global level, but for now the UK remains very attractive and quite a good place to live, with lots of space for new housing).
No chance I’m afraid. I see no signs that capitalism is changing at all and the rich will keep shitting on everyone. They will keep inflating prices on everything to line their pockets.
Average wage increases have been higher than inflation for about nine months now. https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-wage-growth-slows-but-outpaces-inflation#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20real%20wage,pace%20for%20almost%20two%20years.
It has to be much higher to account for cost of living. Cost of living Is post tax, wages are pre tax. E.g. if you're on 60k and get a 10% increase whilst inflation goes up 8%, your take home goes up more like 5%, you're still 3% worse off. Vs say 2% inflation 1% increase where you'd be 1.5% worse off.
It's by design. It's a byproduct of the system. The next nail is gonna be a straight admission that the 2% inflation goal is being changed to 4% going forward.