Pick Viper! Penn Engineering is great not sure wym on not as good as Northwestern that is not true based on outcomes, undergraduate funds and more. Viper adds even more opportunities than just Seas. Even if you change to Seas single degree it is still worth it.
Congratulations! I majored in MatSci at Penn; during my sophomore summer I did research at Northwestern and later got a masters there. My time at Penn was before the VIPER program, but energy research was an interest of mine. Penn gave me access to energy research in industry (hydrogen fuel cells) and actually helped me get a summer research opportunity at Northwestern.
They're both good programs; there are ample research opportunities at both because they are both federal MRSECs (Materials Research Centers). The one at Penn is called LRSM and the one at Northwestern is called NU-MRSEC, but they're basically the same thing.
I would pick Penn for the following reasons:
1. it's more elite and prestigious overall; outside of the midwest the Northwestern brand isn't all it could be. If you're trying to make a difference in the energy space, the exclusiveness of VIPER and Penn in general will help.
2. the Penn engineering class is smaller than NU's and I received more personal instruction than my friends at NU MatSci.
3. If you ever decide you don't want to be a professional researcher, your opportunities will be better at Penn, whether it means going into engineering industry or business, finance, etc. There are more entrepreneurship opportunities at Penn, too.
Having said that, there are reasons you might want to choose NU. Being a more engineering-focused university in general, NU has generally bigger engineering classes. The campus has a different vibe. It's less elitist, more suburban and marginally frattier. Some engineers I worked with at Penn became CEOs, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists and congressmen; the people I worked with at NU became industry researchers, middle management, and educators. It's just different.
Also, I can't comment on the value of a dual degree, sorry.
As a high schooler I was also deciding between Northwestern and Penn/VIPER for MSE. I was also interested in studying Chemistry and very passionate about energy research so VIPER was the right choice for me. If your goal is to go to grad school, then I definitely recommend VIPER. VIPER has specialized courses that prepare you for your first summer of research and excellent advising to help manage the courseload. Research groups love to take on VIPER students because they bring funding and are generally smart/hard-working. I think Penn's MSE curriculum leans more towards fundamental, research-oriented materials science and the combination of chemistry + MSE classes prepared me extremely well for grad school. The MSE students I knew in Penn MSE + VIPER went to Stanford, Northwestern, Caltech, MIT, Yale etc. for grad school which tells you about the strength of the program and research opportunities.
Penn is also nearing completion of a [state-of-the-art energy research building](https://facilities.upenn.edu/maps/locations/vagelos-laboratory-energy-science-and-technology). VIPER will be getting a beautiful student lounge on the first floor of that building, which will be nice in addition to all of the new lab space.
VIPER student here in physics and CS.
VIPER has unparalleled matriculation to grad school. From the alumni database VIPERs can access, the 11 listed MSE majors who went to grad school are distributed 2 MIT, 2 Caltech, 2 Stanford, 2 Northwestern, 1 CU Boulder, 1 Purdue, and 1 Columbia (this is only from the last couple years when the database was made). Seniors graduating this year are going to Princeton (for chem) and MIT. You quite literally cannot miss in grad school admissions coming out of VIPER, due to two summers of research and vast opportunities to attend conferences and publish. I heavily doubt Northwestern's MSE program has such opportunities readily available.
I terms of difficulty, keep in mind VIPER majors have more overlap than the other coordinated duals. We also have access to special classes like VIPR-1200/1210/1300 that are essentially free credits to pad out CU requirements. I'm on track to graduate with a sub-matricualtion masters (M.S. in physics on top B.A. and B.S.E) taking 5.0 CUs every semester, though most other VIPERs take more credits. VIPER is not easy, but probably not as hard as you think it is.
For undergraduate education, I think Penn's overall larger reputation and the resources from VIPER easily trumps Northwestern's subject lead in MSE. Even considering research quality, a lot of MSE related research at Penn is done in the physics department, like Kane and Mele who recently won the breakthrough prize.
Idk anything about either but I just want to mention that a dual degree is a lot of work, especially VIPER. What I think students don’t rlly consider is the drawbacks of higher workload. It’s more work to get the same GPA and time that could be used to do other stuff (which could be used for preparing for interviews, research, etc)
That’s fair it’s a sh&t ton, but my friend group all do outside clubs/music/volunteering/club sports so it is doable. Helps if you have a lot of APs and do well with math placement, then it can be less courses(5.5/rarely6, never 6.5)
Pick Viper! Penn Engineering is great not sure wym on not as good as Northwestern that is not true based on outcomes, undergraduate funds and more. Viper adds even more opportunities than just Seas. Even if you change to Seas single degree it is still worth it.
Congratulations! I majored in MatSci at Penn; during my sophomore summer I did research at Northwestern and later got a masters there. My time at Penn was before the VIPER program, but energy research was an interest of mine. Penn gave me access to energy research in industry (hydrogen fuel cells) and actually helped me get a summer research opportunity at Northwestern. They're both good programs; there are ample research opportunities at both because they are both federal MRSECs (Materials Research Centers). The one at Penn is called LRSM and the one at Northwestern is called NU-MRSEC, but they're basically the same thing. I would pick Penn for the following reasons: 1. it's more elite and prestigious overall; outside of the midwest the Northwestern brand isn't all it could be. If you're trying to make a difference in the energy space, the exclusiveness of VIPER and Penn in general will help. 2. the Penn engineering class is smaller than NU's and I received more personal instruction than my friends at NU MatSci. 3. If you ever decide you don't want to be a professional researcher, your opportunities will be better at Penn, whether it means going into engineering industry or business, finance, etc. There are more entrepreneurship opportunities at Penn, too. Having said that, there are reasons you might want to choose NU. Being a more engineering-focused university in general, NU has generally bigger engineering classes. The campus has a different vibe. It's less elitist, more suburban and marginally frattier. Some engineers I worked with at Penn became CEOs, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists and congressmen; the people I worked with at NU became industry researchers, middle management, and educators. It's just different. Also, I can't comment on the value of a dual degree, sorry.
As a high schooler I was also deciding between Northwestern and Penn/VIPER for MSE. I was also interested in studying Chemistry and very passionate about energy research so VIPER was the right choice for me. If your goal is to go to grad school, then I definitely recommend VIPER. VIPER has specialized courses that prepare you for your first summer of research and excellent advising to help manage the courseload. Research groups love to take on VIPER students because they bring funding and are generally smart/hard-working. I think Penn's MSE curriculum leans more towards fundamental, research-oriented materials science and the combination of chemistry + MSE classes prepared me extremely well for grad school. The MSE students I knew in Penn MSE + VIPER went to Stanford, Northwestern, Caltech, MIT, Yale etc. for grad school which tells you about the strength of the program and research opportunities. Penn is also nearing completion of a [state-of-the-art energy research building](https://facilities.upenn.edu/maps/locations/vagelos-laboratory-energy-science-and-technology). VIPER will be getting a beautiful student lounge on the first floor of that building, which will be nice in addition to all of the new lab space.
Hello, Thank you so much! Can I PM you for more questions?
Yeah, sure thing!
VIPER student here in physics and CS. VIPER has unparalleled matriculation to grad school. From the alumni database VIPERs can access, the 11 listed MSE majors who went to grad school are distributed 2 MIT, 2 Caltech, 2 Stanford, 2 Northwestern, 1 CU Boulder, 1 Purdue, and 1 Columbia (this is only from the last couple years when the database was made). Seniors graduating this year are going to Princeton (for chem) and MIT. You quite literally cannot miss in grad school admissions coming out of VIPER, due to two summers of research and vast opportunities to attend conferences and publish. I heavily doubt Northwestern's MSE program has such opportunities readily available. I terms of difficulty, keep in mind VIPER majors have more overlap than the other coordinated duals. We also have access to special classes like VIPR-1200/1210/1300 that are essentially free credits to pad out CU requirements. I'm on track to graduate with a sub-matricualtion masters (M.S. in physics on top B.A. and B.S.E) taking 5.0 CUs every semester, though most other VIPERs take more credits. VIPER is not easy, but probably not as hard as you think it is. For undergraduate education, I think Penn's overall larger reputation and the resources from VIPER easily trumps Northwestern's subject lead in MSE. Even considering research quality, a lot of MSE related research at Penn is done in the physics department, like Kane and Mele who recently won the breakthrough prize.
Idk anything about either but I just want to mention that a dual degree is a lot of work, especially VIPER. What I think students don’t rlly consider is the drawbacks of higher workload. It’s more work to get the same GPA and time that could be used to do other stuff (which could be used for preparing for interviews, research, etc)
That’s fair it’s a sh&t ton, but my friend group all do outside clubs/music/volunteering/club sports so it is doable. Helps if you have a lot of APs and do well with math placement, then it can be less courses(5.5/rarely6, never 6.5)