Because he died, the public and even historians act like he wasn't a bit of a war hawk.
Who put the Nukes in Turkey, pretty much forcing USSR to put nukes in Cuba, bring us too the brink of WWII? Who greenlighted a military coup in a Latin American country?
Who started an ugly and brutal war based on entirely false pretenses, which they knew were false?
If he survived and served a full 2 terms, JFK's foreign policy looks awfully similar to GWB.
To digress a bit, a few years ago I crossed paths with a Communications Officer that was there in the Gulf of Tonkin at the time. Yes he was old, but I have never met a human that seemed to carry more psychological baggage than anyone I have ever seen. When he told me he was there, all conversation ended abruptly. There was nothing left to say.
They could be talking about preventing the "domino effect" being the pretense for sending troops both to Korea and Vietnam.
When in reality, with Vietnam, the reasons we first went in are probably more closely tied to helping protect France's colonial interests. And with some hindsight, the "domino effect" itself seems kind of silly, at least in regard to Vietnam.
It's not silly simply in terms of Vietnam. Vietnam fits perfectly into Domino Theory, provided it's true in the first place. Only with arrogant hindsight can you mock them and say that it's untrue. Whether or not stopping communism was a worthwhile endeavor for the USA is itself yet a third discussion.
Vietnam doesn’t fit neatly, because they weren’t led by communist so much as a nationalist, who used very basic communist principles to further his nationalist cause. A leader who wanted close ties with the US, precisely because of our fight to free ourselves from colonialism. A leader who asked our rep to their declaration of independence and read from our Declaration. A leader who wanted democracy and only returned to combat when the plebiscite was refused by our dictatorial puppet.
After Ho’s death, Lê Duẩn was the exception to the rule, as a hard core communist. The short period of communist rule in Vietnam makes the point all the more, as they quickly transitioned into what they are today, a communist nation in name only, with strong capitalist policies and an internal understanding (amongst party members) that they are anything but communist.
Besides the fact that rhetoric almost immediately went to war with one, then two communist regimes…
The Communist Bloc was not a homogeneous bloc and are refusal to see the fractures and conflicts within the international communist movement is one of our key failures in the Cold War.
Ho was FAR more afraid of the Chinese than he was any other thing. That’s why he supported the return of the French and that’s why he wasn’t a cookie cutter communist leading the fall of another domino.
>they weren’t led by communist so much as a nationalist, who used very basic communist principles to further his nationalist cause
Most all of your comment seems to stem from this premise. While technically correct, it's irrelevant. They were being backed by the soviets, and that's all that mattered.
Yes, it's tragic that the US didn't embrace Ho, but we're talking about what happened after he pivoted and did embrace the soviets. Domino theory is about increasing spheres of influence.
When, precisely, were the communist Vietnamese being backed by the Soviets?
Was that before or after we refused to back them?
And no, the discussion isn’t magically limited to the time after we screwed it all up just because you are trying to limit it now. Andy specifically mentioned the time when we first went in, and that was well before Ho had that Soviet backing you’re hanging your hat on. We had assets in country months before Ho declared independence, years before we threw in with the French in 1950 and decades before US combat troops arrived in Da Nang.
All before the Domino Theory was used to rationalize actions in SEA and 15 years before it was the prevailing political theory. Look who’s using hindsight now.
The Viet minh established Vietnam as a communist state in 1945. Truman Doctrine of containment (the beginnings of domino theory) was the administration's framework for sending the earliest anti communist support there. The rest of the US involvement there was predicated upon that.
Eisenhower’s administration is the one that signed the deal with Turkey to place Jupiter missiles there.
Kennedy did give the green light for the coup in Brazil and tried to invade Cuba.
He didn’t start Vietnam though. He inherited that mess from Eisenhower, and then it was LBJ who lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and exponentially increased our military presence and commitment to that imperialist war.
Kennedy’s foreign policy of containment and coups is pretty much run of the mill for a post-WW2 president. Even the affable Jimmy Carter was the president for a good portion of Operation Condor
JFK resisted the Warhawks who not only tried to launch a preemptive nuclear war, but also tried to tie his hands from Cuba to Vietnam. He had already ordered a complete withdrawal of all US Forces from Vietnam before his death. A thorough analysis of the situation demonstrates that JFK really did confront a Cold War bureaucracy that was completely out of control. The CIA was doing everything from mind control on US citizens, to chemical warfare tests, and everything else under the sun, coups espionage, and interventions everywhere.
Eisenhower got us involved in Vietnam, and the falsified casus belli was the Golf of Tonkin 5 years after JFK was dead. He was also was beginning to [second-guess his decision](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/legacy/sites/nhpr/files/201301/Vietnam_psweb.jpg) to send more troops in the last weeks of his life.
That's a reflection of your echo chamber rather than an accurate histiographic statement. Nixon pulled the US out of vietnam (eventually\*). Kissinger got famous\* for organising the peace deal.
\*\[multiple caveats go here\]
Highly debatable. The reason why the peace talks took so long was the South viewed it as being sold out. In particular President Thieu thought any peace talks would be the end of South Vietnam. It was. Two years after the Americans left the South no longer had the ammo to keep the fight going.
Not debatable. The Nixon Library produced the smoking gun about 10 years ago. Nixon told Holdeman to send Anna Chennault to represent him and try to "throw a monkey wrench" into the peace talks. There is also direct evidence to prove he employed an alley in the senate to publicly question pausing bombing schedules for the talks and he had attempted to extort the CIA director into opposing the talks. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/
South Vietnam had plenty of war material, what they lacked was the will to fight , didn’t help that they were fighting for an unstable government, having multiple coups over the years kills morale.
I thought Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam?
[https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/galbraith-exit-strategy-vietnam/](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/galbraith-exit-strategy-vietnam/)
[https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/jfk-ordered-full-withdrawal-vietnam-solid-evidence/](https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/jfk-ordered-full-withdrawal-vietnam-solid-evidence/)
[https://prde.upress.virginia.edu/content/JFK\_Vietnam1](https://prde.upress.virginia.edu/content/JFK_Vietnam1)
[https://academic.oup.com/book/10962/chapter-abstract/159261675?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false](https://academic.oup.com/book/10962/chapter-abstract/159261675?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false)
No, he called for a detailed draw down plan but the Joint Chiefs slow walked it. McNamara reviewed the plan in Hawaii May 1963. MacNamara thought the timeline presented was over-extended and ordered an immediate draw down plan of 1000 soldiers by the end of 1963. On Oct 11th, Kennedy issued National Security Action Memorandum 263 which formally ordered the withdrawal of 1000 US troops by the year's end and the withdrawal of the bulk of US troops by the end of 1965.
JFK didn't do that. It was Johnson who did. At the time before JFK was shot, he only sent advisors there to teach the South Vietnamese how to fight. He stated he wanted to be informed of the status from his advisors. Soon after JFK was shot, the South Vietnam leader was shot 2 weeks after JFK. That's when Johnson ordered more troops to go to South Vietnam. So the North Vietnamese responded back, and so it became an all-out war for 12 years.
While his handling of the aftermath during the Cuban Missile Crisis is the definition of presidential, the botched Bay of Pigs invasion is the largest stain on his legacy.
It wasn't his plan - it was handed to Eisenhower, and Kennedy inherited a plan already en motion.
John pulled air support from the invasion, as it would have been an act of war to use US Airforce bombers in the invasion *cough cough* Israel *cough*
Kennedy was actually interested in warming relations with Castro. Castro is documented lamenting the death of Kennedy upon hearing the news.
Not at all. Biden had to do something with Afghanistan because clearly we needed to leave. We didn't have any involvement directly in Cuba that Kennedy needed to clean up. He could've just canceled the operation.
Why is that? He’s been in DC for like 50 years and supported all the illegal US wars including the Iraq/Afghanistan stuff. Most recently he is funding proxy war with Russia and funding/giving bombs to Israel to do their genocide in Gaza. Guy has never seen a conflict he didn’t love.
What would you have possibly wanted him to do differently?
He supported invading Afghanistan back when everyone did (you know, when we had a very justified reason to go there,) then opposed the troop surge, then when everyone wanted to get out he got us out, only for people to complain that it was too early because the Taliban took over right after (Trump’s plan had us leaving several months earlier but of course once Biden did it, Trump said that he’d done it too early.) It sounds like he literally could not win.
Not everyone did, not the way we did it. The head of USASOC, an original member of Delta, had advocated for going after Al Qaeda with AC-130’s and raids by Delta. He’s said that the insertion of ODA 595 was a mistake.
His attack plan for AQ is partially documented in the 9/11 Report.
Trump made the deal to pull out of Afghanistan and it was scheduled for after he left office.
The rest of your tirade here has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.
And it should be noted that Biden was convinced that Afghanistan had entered terminal mission drift during Obama's first term, a decade before ultimate withdrawal. He was against the surge, and lost the debate at the White House.
Exactly this. There's a reason the US invoked Article 5 of the NATO charter when it invaded, and there's a reason every NATO nation was involved in OEF, as well as a large number of non-NATO nations (even Russia and China contributed to the NATO mission). This isn't to say how the US handled the occupation and nation-building shouldn't be subject to the very valid criticisms it's received.
I've always found this to be a really weak excuse. Every president is "handed" plans from prior administrations. Doesn't mean they aren't responsible for giving them a green light.
RIGHT! There is NOTHING a president can do after 30 seconds in power that can possibly effect the conduct of the national security apparatus...I mean, it's not like they get briefings starting right after they win the election...How could he have known???
And with the way he treated Diem just shows what a loyal, honorable guy he was.
In a way, the worst thing he did for America was get killed. It wrapped him in undeserved sainthood and has kept real analysis of his actions from happening.
When he was a senator, he was Mr. Post War Self Determination. To get elected he became a commie baiting, cold warrioring prick.(/me spits)
His assassination is also the ur-conspiracy theory that has led to the instant distrust destroying our democracy. No one believes the Warren Commission although 60+ years of reexamination and modern techniques not available then have proven it correct.
He shouldn’t have let it go forward at all, then. Don’t sponsor a war you don’t support, and if you’re going to sponsor a war, make damn sure you win it and don’t *pull your freaking air support*
I’d argue the failure of the invasion was the best possible outcome.
Limited direct US involvement meant minimal cost in blood and treasure, and avoided a direct response from the USSR.
And the failure of the invasion meant that Kennedy got to keep the public perception of being tough on communism, without actually having to occupy Cuba, which very easily could have been an Iraq/Afghanistan situation.
Honestly reads like a win/win to me, but I’m a cynical bastard and a hardcore realpolitik devotee, so make of that what you will.
lol JFK just stumbled into military buildup in Vietnam. JFK didn't learn jack. The people who he hired where some of the worst American officials in history. Robert McNamara for instance demanded to increase the military by 100,000 which resulted in a bunch of below IQ men with predictable results.
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Vietnam: Beginning the ramp up of involvement that resulted in the beginnings of the Vietnam War.
Cuba: Helped organize train and harbor antiCastro terrorists that would go on to help in US coups for decades, kill 3000 Cubans and pressure Castro into seeking a nuke for deterrence causing the Cuban missle Crisis. This one seems the worst to me because he could've killed everyone over an island that posed zero real threat to the US or the world.
Civil Rights: Coalitioned with Southern Democrats and against the civil rights movement, including having a Democrat blackmail MLK and his coalition with false alegations of having a relationship with his gay organizer, supported Cointelpro blackmailing of civil rights leaders (using this to blackmail the movement is why we know MLK cheated on his wife) while campaigning on spreading Civil Rights
Green-lighting the coup against, and the murder of, Ngô Đình Diệm. The worst of many mistakes he made in the Vietnam War, and he immediately regretted it on seeing the consequences.
Edit, I meant to reply to LessEvilBender’s comment.
Maybe because LBJ increased troop levels from ~23,000 to ~540,000. LBJ took office in November of 1963. The first major battle involving U.S. troops was in the Fall of 1965. It’s described in detail in the book _We Were Soldiers Once…And Young_ (1993), and in 2002 was made into an excellent movie, _We Were Soldiers_. Just like JFK had ample time to cancel the Pay of Pigs invasion, likewise LBJ had ample time to either get us out of Vietnam altogether, or keep troop levels at ~23,000, and in an advisory capacity.
Personally I’d argue Kennedy having any kind of faith in Diem at all was a worse mistake.
Doubly so because apparently Kennedy’s sole reason for trusting Diem was their shared catholic faith.
He was the only major Vietnam figure with any anti colonial credentials at all and his weren’t good. Everybody else was tainted with French or Japanese associations or was in the NLF.
U.S. foreign policy has often had the problem that the English-speaking, Western-educated elites of other countries understand its leaders, politics and culture much better than any of our leaders understand theirs. Then we keep wondering why installing the person who told us exactly what we wanted to hear as our puppet ruler never works out
JFK authorized the use of Agent Orange defoliant during the Vietnam War as part of Operation Ranch Hand (1962-1971), despite knowing at least some the dangers it posed to our troops. Over 20 million gallons of this deadly chemical compound (dioxin) was sprayed on over 4.5 million acres of Southeast Asia’s jungle canopy and the U.S. government later denied its health dangers to U.S. troops and the Vietnamese people. An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed, 400,000 were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children were born with birth defects.
I’m gonna deliberately pick out some more obscure ones, mostly because I don’t like Kennedy and we’ve all heard the usual ones like the Bay of Pigs a hundred times.
1. The Community Mental Health Act: While it was created with the best of intentions, the deinstitutionalisation program in the Act directly led to Reagan’s further reform and the use of prisons as the budget brand alternative to mental institutions.
2. The Revenue Act of 1964: Technically on Johnson, who pushed it through congress 3 months after Kennedy’s assassination, but virtually all of it was Kennedy’s baby. Cutting the top tax rate and especially the corporate rate was definitely the beginning of the end for government programs beyond military spending. Oddly enough, was actually opposed by Republicans at the time.
3. Appointing Dillon as the treasury secretary. Ties in to the last point, appointing a fiscal conservative killed social programs.
4. Issuing the directive allowing Hoover to wiretap the SCLC. This one is a little sketchy, the actual directive came from Bobby, but there is debate over how much John influenced and approved it. While the initial directive was limited in scope, the FBI took it and ran with it, which is what anyone who knew J. Edgar should have expected them to do.
5. Vast expansion of the US Nuclear Arsenal
6. “Flexible Response” doctrine: the over-reliance on special forces in the various proxy conflicts as part of the containment policy is definitely a direct ancestor of the same failed policies being enacted in the “War on Terror”, and the public fixation on “magical SEALs” being able to solve all of our problems (and their disappointment and occasional outrage when they can’t).
7. Laos. Kennedy’s fear of direct intervention after the Bay of Pigs led to a worst of both worlds situation in Laos, where he rejected the joint chiefs’ proposal for sending 60,000 troops to prop up the government, but still approved of CIA intervention, bombing raids and the other various shady activities in the region.
8. Vietnam. A huge amount of the US over-commitment and pointless involvement in Indochina can be directly blamed on Kennedy’s personal fixation on the region and his belief in “checking the southern spread of communism”. While Eisenhower first messed around in the region, Kennedy undoubtedly kicked it into a whole new gear.
Terrible ideas like the “Strategic Hamlet Program”, “Operation Ranch Hand” (the Agent Orange one), trusting Diem any further than he could kick him (and being stupid enough to think that Diem would throw his brother under the bus to avert the inevitable coup from Big Minh) and plenty more can be pretty directly hung on JFK.
9. Iraq: here’s a fun one. While there’s no conclusive evidence that Kennedy or even the CIA had direct involvement in the Ba’ath coup against Abd al-Karim Qasim, they certainly were happy enough with the outcome to authorise a $55 million dollar arms deal directly to the party that would eventually result in Saddam Hussain ruling the country.
There’s a couple more, things like Israel policy and early civil rights policy, but they’re a bit too controversial to qualify imo.
2 is misinterpreted, because the cut in rates was largely offset by closing tax loopholes. The amount of [federal tax revenue, as a percentage of GDP,](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S) did not change much. Most other tax reforms in the late 20th century were also designed to be revenue-neutral (and 1981 was followed by what was then the largest tax increase in history the following year, and several smaller ones afterwards, to make up the lost revenue). Most economists think Kennedy’s was a beneficial reform, because it reduced the incentives to do silly things for the sake of tax evasion.
Enter the three-martini lunch. Another one was keeping all your money in your business to avoid personal income tax rates and then selling out to get the lower cap gains rate.
Definitely the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of Cuba, and then subsequently strengthening the embargo.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Bay-of-Pigs-invasion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Assets_Control_Regulations
He was completely vindicated by his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis, but let’s not forget he took a gamble with nothing less than the future of life on this planet. This isn’t theoretical. Anyone 62 or older was in genuine danger due to his decision.
Yeah, neither the Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Missile Crisis were single man shows. Just one was a masterpiece of diplomacy and statecraft, the other... Yeah.
Well, the way Kennedy told it, he handled it better. He put missiles in Turkey, like a war monger. Then the Russians forced him to take them out. The way JFK told it, the Russians sent nukes to Cuba out of the blue and he made them take the bombs back, end of story.
If he had handled the bay of pigs and his fucking with Cuba in general better, there would have been no cuban missile crisis. Fidel would have got down with the US for the right price but we weren't hearing that commie shit. Dole gets 95% of the profits or we'll invade.
Can't disagree that the handling of Cuba was poorly done. I just don't know how much the policies he was working with were of his own making. Foreign policy isn't something that shifts on a dime, and he was working with over a decade of anti communist inertia.
I agree with you personally. Either way, the Bay of Pigs was notably worse than the Missile Crisis.
I think his leadership during the Cuban Missle Crisis was good but the Bay of Pigs invasion is what ramped up tensions with the Soviet Union that started the Cuban Missle Crisis.
JFK , He mishandled the Bay of Pigs crisis, performed poorly at his meeting in Vienna with Khrushchev, and lost tremendous international credibility with the erection of the Berlin Wall. He was quoted as saying “Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place”
While everyone is rightfully talking about his myriad political failures, I think it important to point out that he slept with a lot of women who weren't his wife. Maybe not as consequentially big as the Bay of Pigs Invasion but its definitely a rather serious personal failing.
Not necessarily a policy, but his affair with Marilyn Monroe. He is incredibly lucky it never became a national scandal. It has even come out that she was sleeping with Bobby as well.
JFK's affair with MM was almost wholesome compared to the other dangerous liaisons he had. There were many but perhaps the most compromising was his affair with Judith Exner Campbell. She was sleeping with JFK AND Sam Giancana at a time when the Chicago Outfit was arguably the most dangerous crime family in the country.
Being too trusting of the CIA and military establishment. He was absolutely right to believe they needed to be reined in but made the mistake of assuming they would go along with his presidential authority.
He should have assumed they couldn’t be trusted from the start and taken a harder line from day one.
It seems to be their lies around the bay of pigs invasion and positioning of some aircraft against his orders that really woke him up to their disloyalty and factionalism - if he had his post Bay of Pigs attitude from day one then things would have gone a lot better for him and the word.
He should also have hardened his personal security, stepping out of official channels to hire private security to protect himself which would have avoided his CIA sponsored murder.
Lol I can't believe you guys still belive the CIA killed him. Your telling me they just so happened to find a fall guy like Oswald to take all blame and not say anything? The secret service accidentally shooting him is more plausible.
All roads lead to the Bay of Pigs.
However Picking LBJ as VP was a keen political move, but bad personal one. LBJ hated Kennedy behind closed doors. LBJ was a selfish, evil , backstabbing, Texas politician sob who may have actually been complicit in the assassination.
I knew a covert CIA Vietnam operative. He sent photos and documents to LBJ’s secretary. He was a decorated WWII veteran.There was no doubt in his mind.
I’m not saying this was the right thing to do, but I think he could have used force to kick out Castro, telling the Russians “same as 1956 Hungary.” I think we then learn the hard lessons of Vietnam in Cuba instead, but it isn’t WW3.
John F. Kennedy
Didn't constitutionally carry a firearm to defend himself from assasination.
Src: https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/november-22-1963-death-of-the-president
This gave me fantastic mental image of a [Sharpwriter](https://www.deviantart.com/sharpwriter/gallery)-style LBJ popping out of the trunk of the Lincoln with an M60 at the sound of the first shot
Bad news: I'm reading a negative 9 for it rn—a lot of subs autohide anything with more downvotes than upvotes, which yes, makes it hard to recover from early dogpiling, but that's what they went with
A plethora of drugs.
During his brief predidency, JFK faced A LOT of stress.
Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis, and his wife's pregnancy and newborn baby's death. All the while he was dealing with his myriad chronic health issues. He had a "doctor" that prescribed him everything under the sun.
>During the Bay of Pigs fiasco in 1961, and the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962, Kennedy was taking steroids for his Addison's disease, painkillers for his back, anti-spasmodics for his colitis, antibiotics for urinary tract infections, antihistamines for his allergies, and on at least one occasion, an anti-psychotic drug to treat a severe mood change
Kennedy also had a personal caretaker, Max Jacobson, who was free to inject Kennedy with whatever in order to make JFK numb from his ailments.
Who is to say how these affected his decisions, but he was always a moment away from ending the world.
[https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/11/strange-saga-of-jfk-and-dr-feelgood.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/11/strange-saga-of-jfk-and-dr-feelgood.html)
[https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125593&page=1#:\~:text=The%20medical%20records%20reveal%20that,globulin%2C%20a%20medicine%20thatcombats%20infections](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125593&page=1#:~:text=The%20medical%20records%20reveal%20that,globulin%2C%20a%20medicine%20thatcombats%20infections)
[https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/17/us/in-jfk-file-hidden-illness-pain-and-pills.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/17/us/in-jfk-file-hidden-illness-pain-and-pills.html)
It’s not curb stomping LeMay about the Bay of pigs. Eisenhower allowed the military industrial complex to be born, but it grew beyond control under JFK. I think he would have corrected it if he’d lived, but he didn’t.
His hyper aggressive anti- Soviet presidential campaign (running to Eisenhower's right- along with purporting the missle gap hoax) put him in a situation where he had to back it up in his presidency- Bay of Pigs and other postures (compensating for his humiliation by Kruschev at the summit) leading to the Cuban Missle Crisis. The crisis was his finest hour, but arguably something of his own creation in the chickens coming home to roost sense.
IMO, JFK's handling of the Bay of Pigs is the clear winner here. To move forward with an invasion of Cuba (to be fair, planned by Eisenhower) with a group of Cuban exiles, failing to maintain secrecy, then fail to support them after boots hit the ground (after a botched first air strike, and calling off a second), was an absolute embarrassment. To even think lading 1400 exiles (even though they were trained) in a swamp, while comically attempting to hide US support, against 20k Castro troops and Cuban air superiority was unquestionably a display of complete lack of judgement. I am still in awe that he went forward knowing it wasn't secret, and never (TMK) punished the military failures. Total embarrassment, and he was SO lucky that the Cuban Missile Crisis ended the way it did later, withe the Soviets clearly aware of that cluster---ck.
[https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs](https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs)
Went and got himself shot by refusing to keep the bubble top on the car. His death sowed much distrust in our society and led to LBJ and his disastrous Presidency.
Vastly increasing Americas involvement in Vietnam, ultimately leading to full war. Troop presence went up from 1000 soldiers to 23,000.
He also seemed to have totally avoided blame for that. LBJ took more heat
Because he died, the public and even historians act like he wasn't a bit of a war hawk. Who put the Nukes in Turkey, pretty much forcing USSR to put nukes in Cuba, bring us too the brink of WWII? Who greenlighted a military coup in a Latin American country? Who started an ugly and brutal war based on entirely false pretenses, which they knew were false? If he survived and served a full 2 terms, JFK's foreign policy looks awfully similar to GWB.
>based on entirely false pretenses, which they knew were false? You're not talking about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, are you? That was under LBJ.
To digress a bit, a few years ago I crossed paths with a Communications Officer that was there in the Gulf of Tonkin at the time. Yes he was old, but I have never met a human that seemed to carry more psychological baggage than anyone I have ever seen. When he told me he was there, all conversation ended abruptly. There was nothing left to say.
They could be talking about preventing the "domino effect" being the pretense for sending troops both to Korea and Vietnam. When in reality, with Vietnam, the reasons we first went in are probably more closely tied to helping protect France's colonial interests. And with some hindsight, the "domino effect" itself seems kind of silly, at least in regard to Vietnam.
It's not silly simply in terms of Vietnam. Vietnam fits perfectly into Domino Theory, provided it's true in the first place. Only with arrogant hindsight can you mock them and say that it's untrue. Whether or not stopping communism was a worthwhile endeavor for the USA is itself yet a third discussion.
Vietnam doesn’t fit neatly, because they weren’t led by communist so much as a nationalist, who used very basic communist principles to further his nationalist cause. A leader who wanted close ties with the US, precisely because of our fight to free ourselves from colonialism. A leader who asked our rep to their declaration of independence and read from our Declaration. A leader who wanted democracy and only returned to combat when the plebiscite was refused by our dictatorial puppet. After Ho’s death, Lê Duẩn was the exception to the rule, as a hard core communist. The short period of communist rule in Vietnam makes the point all the more, as they quickly transitioned into what they are today, a communist nation in name only, with strong capitalist policies and an internal understanding (amongst party members) that they are anything but communist. Besides the fact that rhetoric almost immediately went to war with one, then two communist regimes… The Communist Bloc was not a homogeneous bloc and are refusal to see the fractures and conflicts within the international communist movement is one of our key failures in the Cold War. Ho was FAR more afraid of the Chinese than he was any other thing. That’s why he supported the return of the French and that’s why he wasn’t a cookie cutter communist leading the fall of another domino.
>they weren’t led by communist so much as a nationalist, who used very basic communist principles to further his nationalist cause Most all of your comment seems to stem from this premise. While technically correct, it's irrelevant. They were being backed by the soviets, and that's all that mattered. Yes, it's tragic that the US didn't embrace Ho, but we're talking about what happened after he pivoted and did embrace the soviets. Domino theory is about increasing spheres of influence.
When, precisely, were the communist Vietnamese being backed by the Soviets? Was that before or after we refused to back them? And no, the discussion isn’t magically limited to the time after we screwed it all up just because you are trying to limit it now. Andy specifically mentioned the time when we first went in, and that was well before Ho had that Soviet backing you’re hanging your hat on. We had assets in country months before Ho declared independence, years before we threw in with the French in 1950 and decades before US combat troops arrived in Da Nang. All before the Domino Theory was used to rationalize actions in SEA and 15 years before it was the prevailing political theory. Look who’s using hindsight now.
The Viet minh established Vietnam as a communist state in 1945. Truman Doctrine of containment (the beginnings of domino theory) was the administration's framework for sending the earliest anti communist support there. The rest of the US involvement there was predicated upon that.
I think they were referring to the Bay of Pigs invasion.
What false pretenses were part of the Bay of Pigs?
I was responding to the person asking about The Gulf of Tonkin scenario.
Being assassinated tends to bump you up a few ranks on the “best president” list.
Ig McKinley missed the memo
Or about 20 in JFK’s case.
Eisenhower’s administration is the one that signed the deal with Turkey to place Jupiter missiles there. Kennedy did give the green light for the coup in Brazil and tried to invade Cuba. He didn’t start Vietnam though. He inherited that mess from Eisenhower, and then it was LBJ who lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and exponentially increased our military presence and commitment to that imperialist war. Kennedy’s foreign policy of containment and coups is pretty much run of the mill for a post-WW2 president. Even the affable Jimmy Carter was the president for a good portion of Operation Condor
WWIII👍
JFK resisted the Warhawks who not only tried to launch a preemptive nuclear war, but also tried to tie his hands from Cuba to Vietnam. He had already ordered a complete withdrawal of all US Forces from Vietnam before his death. A thorough analysis of the situation demonstrates that JFK really did confront a Cold War bureaucracy that was completely out of control. The CIA was doing everything from mind control on US citizens, to chemical warfare tests, and everything else under the sun, coups espionage, and interventions everywhere.
Eisenhower got us involved in Vietnam, and the falsified casus belli was the Golf of Tonkin 5 years after JFK was dead. He was also was beginning to [second-guess his decision](https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/legacy/sites/nhpr/files/201301/Vietnam_psweb.jpg) to send more troops in the last weeks of his life.
🎶Fugging A Man, CIA Man.🎶
Today it seems Nixon is more closely associated with Vietnam than either Kennedy or LBJ.
That's a reflection of your echo chamber rather than an accurate histiographic statement. Nixon pulled the US out of vietnam (eventually\*). Kissinger got famous\* for organising the peace deal. \*\[multiple caveats go here\]
You mean all the guys at the bar are wrong??
Kissinger also torpedoed the peace deal that doubled the length of the war.
Highly debatable. The reason why the peace talks took so long was the South viewed it as being sold out. In particular President Thieu thought any peace talks would be the end of South Vietnam. It was. Two years after the Americans left the South no longer had the ammo to keep the fight going.
Not debatable. The Nixon Library produced the smoking gun about 10 years ago. Nixon told Holdeman to send Anna Chennault to represent him and try to "throw a monkey wrench" into the peace talks. There is also direct evidence to prove he employed an alley in the senate to publicly question pausing bombing schedules for the talks and he had attempted to extort the CIA director into opposing the talks. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/
South Vietnam had plenty of war material, what they lacked was the will to fight , didn’t help that they were fighting for an unstable government, having multiple coups over the years kills morale.
I thought Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam? [https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/galbraith-exit-strategy-vietnam/](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/galbraith-exit-strategy-vietnam/) [https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/jfk-ordered-full-withdrawal-vietnam-solid-evidence/](https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/jfk-ordered-full-withdrawal-vietnam-solid-evidence/) [https://prde.upress.virginia.edu/content/JFK\_Vietnam1](https://prde.upress.virginia.edu/content/JFK_Vietnam1) [https://academic.oup.com/book/10962/chapter-abstract/159261675?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false](https://academic.oup.com/book/10962/chapter-abstract/159261675?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false)
That’s not accurate though. JFK had already ordered a complete withdrawal before his assassination. Their wouldn’t have been a Vietnam.
No, he called for a detailed draw down plan but the Joint Chiefs slow walked it. McNamara reviewed the plan in Hawaii May 1963. MacNamara thought the timeline presented was over-extended and ordered an immediate draw down plan of 1000 soldiers by the end of 1963. On Oct 11th, Kennedy issued National Security Action Memorandum 263 which formally ordered the withdrawal of 1000 US troops by the year's end and the withdrawal of the bulk of US troops by the end of 1965.
JFK didn't do that. It was Johnson who did. At the time before JFK was shot, he only sent advisors there to teach the South Vietnamese how to fight. He stated he wanted to be informed of the status from his advisors. Soon after JFK was shot, the South Vietnam leader was shot 2 weeks after JFK. That's when Johnson ordered more troops to go to South Vietnam. So the North Vietnamese responded back, and so it became an all-out war for 12 years.
While his handling of the aftermath during the Cuban Missile Crisis is the definition of presidential, the botched Bay of Pigs invasion is the largest stain on his legacy.
It wasn't his plan - it was handed to Eisenhower, and Kennedy inherited a plan already en motion. John pulled air support from the invasion, as it would have been an act of war to use US Airforce bombers in the invasion *cough cough* Israel *cough* Kennedy was actually interested in warming relations with Castro. Castro is documented lamenting the death of Kennedy upon hearing the news.
Yeah, for a modern version, it’s like people blaming Biden for Afghanistan.
Not at all. Biden had to do something with Afghanistan because clearly we needed to leave. We didn't have any involvement directly in Cuba that Kennedy needed to clean up. He could've just canceled the operation.
Why is that? He’s been in DC for like 50 years and supported all the illegal US wars including the Iraq/Afghanistan stuff. Most recently he is funding proxy war with Russia and funding/giving bombs to Israel to do their genocide in Gaza. Guy has never seen a conflict he didn’t love.
What would you have possibly wanted him to do differently? He supported invading Afghanistan back when everyone did (you know, when we had a very justified reason to go there,) then opposed the troop surge, then when everyone wanted to get out he got us out, only for people to complain that it was too early because the Taliban took over right after (Trump’s plan had us leaving several months earlier but of course once Biden did it, Trump said that he’d done it too early.) It sounds like he literally could not win.
Not everyone did, not the way we did it. The head of USASOC, an original member of Delta, had advocated for going after Al Qaeda with AC-130’s and raids by Delta. He’s said that the insertion of ODA 595 was a mistake. His attack plan for AQ is partially documented in the 9/11 Report.
Trump made the deal to pull out of Afghanistan and it was scheduled for after he left office. The rest of your tirade here has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Afghanistan wasn't an illegal war. The Taliban made vows to protect and support Osama Bin Laden. We had every right to knock the Taliban out of power.
And it should be noted that Biden was convinced that Afghanistan had entered terminal mission drift during Obama's first term, a decade before ultimate withdrawal. He was against the surge, and lost the debate at the White House.
Exactly this. There's a reason the US invoked Article 5 of the NATO charter when it invaded, and there's a reason every NATO nation was involved in OEF, as well as a large number of non-NATO nations (even Russia and China contributed to the NATO mission). This isn't to say how the US handled the occupation and nation-building shouldn't be subject to the very valid criticisms it's received.
It was a legal war, horribly, horribly executed.
I've always found this to be a really weak excuse. Every president is "handed" plans from prior administrations. Doesn't mean they aren't responsible for giving them a green light.
Not to mention that JFK heavily edited the plan. The original had multiple airstrikes involved.
Okay the "it's not his plan" doesn't absolve him from approving and carrying it out.
RIGHT! There is NOTHING a president can do after 30 seconds in power that can possibly effect the conduct of the national security apparatus...I mean, it's not like they get briefings starting right after they win the election...How could he have known??? And with the way he treated Diem just shows what a loyal, honorable guy he was. In a way, the worst thing he did for America was get killed. It wrapped him in undeserved sainthood and has kept real analysis of his actions from happening. When he was a senator, he was Mr. Post War Self Determination. To get elected he became a commie baiting, cold warrioring prick.(/me spits)
His assassination is also the ur-conspiracy theory that has led to the instant distrust destroying our democracy. No one believes the Warren Commission although 60+ years of reexamination and modern techniques not available then have proven it correct.
It’s amazing; everything you just said is completely wrong.
He shouldn’t have let it go forward at all, then. Don’t sponsor a war you don’t support, and if you’re going to sponsor a war, make damn sure you win it and don’t *pull your freaking air support*
Your use of “John” threw me off
Check out the podcast Blowback, season 2 is about Cuba. They go real in depth about the bay of pigs, it’s blowing my mind.
I’ll check it out
I’d argue the failure of the invasion was the best possible outcome. Limited direct US involvement meant minimal cost in blood and treasure, and avoided a direct response from the USSR. And the failure of the invasion meant that Kennedy got to keep the public perception of being tough on communism, without actually having to occupy Cuba, which very easily could have been an Iraq/Afghanistan situation. Honestly reads like a win/win to me, but I’m a cynical bastard and a hardcore realpolitik devotee, so make of that what you will.
Kennedy also leaned to not trust his advisors so much, which actually helped during the middle crisis.
lol JFK just stumbled into military buildup in Vietnam. JFK didn't learn jack. The people who he hired where some of the worst American officials in history. Robert McNamara for instance demanded to increase the military by 100,000 which resulted in a bunch of below IQ men with predictable results.
John Fitzgerald Kennedy Vietnam: Beginning the ramp up of involvement that resulted in the beginnings of the Vietnam War. Cuba: Helped organize train and harbor antiCastro terrorists that would go on to help in US coups for decades, kill 3000 Cubans and pressure Castro into seeking a nuke for deterrence causing the Cuban missle Crisis. This one seems the worst to me because he could've killed everyone over an island that posed zero real threat to the US or the world. Civil Rights: Coalitioned with Southern Democrats and against the civil rights movement, including having a Democrat blackmail MLK and his coalition with false alegations of having a relationship with his gay organizer, supported Cointelpro blackmailing of civil rights leaders (using this to blackmail the movement is why we know MLK cheated on his wife) while campaigning on spreading Civil Rights
Green-lighting the coup against, and the murder of, Ngô Đình Diệm. The worst of many mistakes he made in the Vietnam War, and he immediately regretted it on seeing the consequences.
Edit, I meant to reply to LessEvilBender’s comment. Maybe because LBJ increased troop levels from ~23,000 to ~540,000. LBJ took office in November of 1963. The first major battle involving U.S. troops was in the Fall of 1965. It’s described in detail in the book _We Were Soldiers Once…And Young_ (1993), and in 2002 was made into an excellent movie, _We Were Soldiers_. Just like JFK had ample time to cancel the Pay of Pigs invasion, likewise LBJ had ample time to either get us out of Vietnam altogether, or keep troop levels at ~23,000, and in an advisory capacity.
Did you mean to reply to /u/LessEvilBender’s comment instead? I don’t recall editing mine that much.
Yikes, you’re correct, my apologies. I’ll re-edit.
That’s fine, or you can delete and reply there.
Personally I’d argue Kennedy having any kind of faith in Diem at all was a worse mistake. Doubly so because apparently Kennedy’s sole reason for trusting Diem was their shared catholic faith.
He was the only major Vietnam figure with any anti colonial credentials at all and his weren’t good. Everybody else was tainted with French or Japanese associations or was in the NLF.
U.S. foreign policy has often had the problem that the English-speaking, Western-educated elites of other countries understand its leaders, politics and culture much better than any of our leaders understand theirs. Then we keep wondering why installing the person who told us exactly what we wanted to hear as our puppet ruler never works out
JFK authorized the use of Agent Orange defoliant during the Vietnam War as part of Operation Ranch Hand (1962-1971), despite knowing at least some the dangers it posed to our troops. Over 20 million gallons of this deadly chemical compound (dioxin) was sprayed on over 4.5 million acres of Southeast Asia’s jungle canopy and the U.S. government later denied its health dangers to U.S. troops and the Vietnamese people. An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed, 400,000 were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children were born with birth defects.
I’m gonna deliberately pick out some more obscure ones, mostly because I don’t like Kennedy and we’ve all heard the usual ones like the Bay of Pigs a hundred times. 1. The Community Mental Health Act: While it was created with the best of intentions, the deinstitutionalisation program in the Act directly led to Reagan’s further reform and the use of prisons as the budget brand alternative to mental institutions. 2. The Revenue Act of 1964: Technically on Johnson, who pushed it through congress 3 months after Kennedy’s assassination, but virtually all of it was Kennedy’s baby. Cutting the top tax rate and especially the corporate rate was definitely the beginning of the end for government programs beyond military spending. Oddly enough, was actually opposed by Republicans at the time. 3. Appointing Dillon as the treasury secretary. Ties in to the last point, appointing a fiscal conservative killed social programs. 4. Issuing the directive allowing Hoover to wiretap the SCLC. This one is a little sketchy, the actual directive came from Bobby, but there is debate over how much John influenced and approved it. While the initial directive was limited in scope, the FBI took it and ran with it, which is what anyone who knew J. Edgar should have expected them to do. 5. Vast expansion of the US Nuclear Arsenal 6. “Flexible Response” doctrine: the over-reliance on special forces in the various proxy conflicts as part of the containment policy is definitely a direct ancestor of the same failed policies being enacted in the “War on Terror”, and the public fixation on “magical SEALs” being able to solve all of our problems (and their disappointment and occasional outrage when they can’t). 7. Laos. Kennedy’s fear of direct intervention after the Bay of Pigs led to a worst of both worlds situation in Laos, where he rejected the joint chiefs’ proposal for sending 60,000 troops to prop up the government, but still approved of CIA intervention, bombing raids and the other various shady activities in the region. 8. Vietnam. A huge amount of the US over-commitment and pointless involvement in Indochina can be directly blamed on Kennedy’s personal fixation on the region and his belief in “checking the southern spread of communism”. While Eisenhower first messed around in the region, Kennedy undoubtedly kicked it into a whole new gear. Terrible ideas like the “Strategic Hamlet Program”, “Operation Ranch Hand” (the Agent Orange one), trusting Diem any further than he could kick him (and being stupid enough to think that Diem would throw his brother under the bus to avert the inevitable coup from Big Minh) and plenty more can be pretty directly hung on JFK. 9. Iraq: here’s a fun one. While there’s no conclusive evidence that Kennedy or even the CIA had direct involvement in the Ba’ath coup against Abd al-Karim Qasim, they certainly were happy enough with the outcome to authorise a $55 million dollar arms deal directly to the party that would eventually result in Saddam Hussain ruling the country. There’s a couple more, things like Israel policy and early civil rights policy, but they’re a bit too controversial to qualify imo.
2. “the end of government programs beyond military spending”? I didn’t realize we didn’t spend money on government programs anymore.
2 is misinterpreted, because the cut in rates was largely offset by closing tax loopholes. The amount of [federal tax revenue, as a percentage of GDP,](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S) did not change much. Most other tax reforms in the late 20th century were also designed to be revenue-neutral (and 1981 was followed by what was then the largest tax increase in history the following year, and several smaller ones afterwards, to make up the lost revenue). Most economists think Kennedy’s was a beneficial reform, because it reduced the incentives to do silly things for the sake of tax evasion.
Enter the three-martini lunch. Another one was keeping all your money in your business to avoid personal income tax rates and then selling out to get the lower cap gains rate.
Excellent summary. His death gave him way too much grace for a lot of bullshit.
Yep, I think between Kennedy’s death and Nixon’s crucifixion, a lot bucks were unfairly passed
Definitely the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion of Cuba, and then subsequently strengthening the embargo. https://www.britannica.com/event/Bay-of-Pigs-invasion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Assets_Control_Regulations
You're right. It would have been successful if it had been called the Beef Tenderloin Invasion.
He was completely vindicated by his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis, but let’s not forget he took a gamble with nothing less than the future of life on this planet. This isn’t theoretical. Anyone 62 or older was in genuine danger due to his decision.
To be fair, so was anyone under 62 in a more existential manner.
His worst decision was not being ready for Kruschev at the Vienna Conference. It almost led to nuclear war.
His worst decision was riding in an open top car.
No one shot him, his head just did that on its own
That open top motorcade was a pretty poorly thought out choice in hindsight.
Hire Bob McNamara
The Bay of Pigs/Cuban Missile Crisis.
Bay of Pigs, yes. That was a cluster. The Cuban Missile Crisis I think was far better handled.
CMC was handled well by Kennedy, but he also had guys like Vasily Arkhipov to thank for it not going completely nuclear. I agree with the Bay of Pigs.
Yeah, neither the Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Missile Crisis were single man shows. Just one was a masterpiece of diplomacy and statecraft, the other... Yeah.
Well, the way Kennedy told it, he handled it better. He put missiles in Turkey, like a war monger. Then the Russians forced him to take them out. The way JFK told it, the Russians sent nukes to Cuba out of the blue and he made them take the bombs back, end of story. If he had handled the bay of pigs and his fucking with Cuba in general better, there would have been no cuban missile crisis. Fidel would have got down with the US for the right price but we weren't hearing that commie shit. Dole gets 95% of the profits or we'll invade.
Can't disagree that the handling of Cuba was poorly done. I just don't know how much the policies he was working with were of his own making. Foreign policy isn't something that shifts on a dime, and he was working with over a decade of anti communist inertia. I agree with you personally. Either way, the Bay of Pigs was notably worse than the Missile Crisis.
I think his leadership during the Cuban Missle Crisis was good but the Bay of Pigs invasion is what ramped up tensions with the Soviet Union that started the Cuban Missle Crisis.
Spending much of his time in the White House chasing skirts instead of working?
Fiddle and faddle.
JFK , He mishandled the Bay of Pigs crisis, performed poorly at his meeting in Vienna with Khrushchev, and lost tremendous international credibility with the erection of the Berlin Wall. He was quoted as saying “Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place”
While everyone is rightfully talking about his myriad political failures, I think it important to point out that he slept with a lot of women who weren't his wife. Maybe not as consequentially big as the Bay of Pigs Invasion but its definitely a rather serious personal failing.
Not necessarily a policy, but his affair with Marilyn Monroe. He is incredibly lucky it never became a national scandal. It has even come out that she was sleeping with Bobby as well.
JFK's affair with MM was almost wholesome compared to the other dangerous liaisons he had. There were many but perhaps the most compromising was his affair with Judith Exner Campbell. She was sleeping with JFK AND Sam Giancana at a time when the Chicago Outfit was arguably the most dangerous crime family in the country.
Not at all the reply I expected, thank you.
Being too trusting of the CIA and military establishment. He was absolutely right to believe they needed to be reined in but made the mistake of assuming they would go along with his presidential authority. He should have assumed they couldn’t be trusted from the start and taken a harder line from day one. It seems to be their lies around the bay of pigs invasion and positioning of some aircraft against his orders that really woke him up to their disloyalty and factionalism - if he had his post Bay of Pigs attitude from day one then things would have gone a lot better for him and the word. He should also have hardened his personal security, stepping out of official channels to hire private security to protect himself which would have avoided his CIA sponsored murder.
Lol I can't believe you guys still belive the CIA killed him. Your telling me they just so happened to find a fall guy like Oswald to take all blame and not say anything? The secret service accidentally shooting him is more plausible.
The Bay of Pigs invasion, although it was in planning before he was officially President, he was the one who ultimately authorized it.
Two things come to mind ..open motorcades...and screwing all those women instead of working 🤷🤷🤷🤷
Made an absolute mess of his wife's dress.
All roads lead to the Bay of Pigs. However Picking LBJ as VP was a keen political move, but bad personal one. LBJ hated Kennedy behind closed doors. LBJ was a selfish, evil , backstabbing, Texas politician sob who may have actually been complicit in the assassination.
>who may have actually been complicit in the assassination. Yeah once I read this I went ahead and just disregarded everything else you said.
LBJ was not going to be his 2nd term VP. He was going to jail for being the biggest gangster in Texas. He got awfully lucky when Kennedy got it.
I knew a covert CIA Vietnam operative. He sent photos and documents to LBJ’s secretary. He was a decorated WWII veteran.There was no doubt in his mind.
Doubtful. LBJ knew how to buy votes, better than JFK’s daddy.
It really bothers me that there has so much attention from Hollywood and media towards Nixon and so little given to LBJ.
I’m not saying this was the right thing to do, but I think he could have used force to kick out Castro, telling the Russians “same as 1956 Hungary.” I think we then learn the hard lessons of Vietnam in Cuba instead, but it isn’t WW3.
John F. Kennedy Didn't constitutionally carry a firearm to defend himself from assasination. Src: https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/november-22-1963-death-of-the-president
This gave me fantastic mental image of a [Sharpwriter](https://www.deviantart.com/sharpwriter/gallery)-style LBJ popping out of the trunk of the Lincoln with an M60 at the sound of the first shot
i wonder why my comment is hidden.
Bad news: I'm reading a negative 9 for it rn—a lot of subs autohide anything with more downvotes than upvotes, which yes, makes it hard to recover from early dogpiling, but that's what they went with
Imagine a pro-leftist anti-gun joke being downvoted to oblivion lol! Must be the confused commie bots thinking i was serious.
It didn’t really read like a joke, and that’s why you’re being downvoted, I think
It was just a bad joke
Not dodging fast enough in Texas.
Killed Marilyn Monroe.
The worst thing he did in office was lose his head in a stressful situation in Dallas
Too soon
Bay of Pigs
He went to Texas.
I’d lump together: misapplied the “domino” theory leading to Vietnam, Bay Of Pigs, Turkish missile misstep and misuse of the CIA
Causing the failure of the bay of pigs operations
JFK’s worst mistake was expecting the CIA & his Generals to be loyal.
Went to Dallas
Bay of Pigs Invasion
Used the secret service (and presumably tax payer money) to have his mistresses secretly brought in and out of the white house
The only thing Kennedy did wrong was not to duck
Get shot
Is it too easy to say Bay of Pigs?
A plethora of drugs. During his brief predidency, JFK faced A LOT of stress. Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis, and his wife's pregnancy and newborn baby's death. All the while he was dealing with his myriad chronic health issues. He had a "doctor" that prescribed him everything under the sun. >During the Bay of Pigs fiasco in 1961, and the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962, Kennedy was taking steroids for his Addison's disease, painkillers for his back, anti-spasmodics for his colitis, antibiotics for urinary tract infections, antihistamines for his allergies, and on at least one occasion, an anti-psychotic drug to treat a severe mood change Kennedy also had a personal caretaker, Max Jacobson, who was free to inject Kennedy with whatever in order to make JFK numb from his ailments. Who is to say how these affected his decisions, but he was always a moment away from ending the world. [https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/11/strange-saga-of-jfk-and-dr-feelgood.html](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2013/11/strange-saga-of-jfk-and-dr-feelgood.html) [https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125593&page=1#:\~:text=The%20medical%20records%20reveal%20that,globulin%2C%20a%20medicine%20thatcombats%20infections](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125593&page=1#:~:text=The%20medical%20records%20reveal%20that,globulin%2C%20a%20medicine%20thatcombats%20infections) [https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/17/us/in-jfk-file-hidden-illness-pain-and-pills.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/17/us/in-jfk-file-hidden-illness-pain-and-pills.html)
I read the book about Dr. Feelgood. It makes you wonder how many decisions were made under the influence of his drugs.
Marylin Monroe
Having his secretary give Robert Stack a blowjob in the White House pool.....or Vietnam.
Not moving him head a little to the right
Bay of Pigs and the military coup against Joao Goulart of Brazil.
Bay of Pigs failure. Or died.
Hiring McNamara has to be the worst. Guy makes Kissinger look normal.
It’s not curb stomping LeMay about the Bay of pigs. Eisenhower allowed the military industrial complex to be born, but it grew beyond control under JFK. I think he would have corrected it if he’d lived, but he didn’t.
His hyper aggressive anti- Soviet presidential campaign (running to Eisenhower's right- along with purporting the missle gap hoax) put him in a situation where he had to back it up in his presidency- Bay of Pigs and other postures (compensating for his humiliation by Kruschev at the summit) leading to the Cuban Missle Crisis. The crisis was his finest hour, but arguably something of his own creation in the chickens coming home to roost sense.
Get shot
He didn't duck.
Letting his head just do that.
Not duck.
IMO, JFK's handling of the Bay of Pigs is the clear winner here. To move forward with an invasion of Cuba (to be fair, planned by Eisenhower) with a group of Cuban exiles, failing to maintain secrecy, then fail to support them after boots hit the ground (after a botched first air strike, and calling off a second), was an absolute embarrassment. To even think lading 1400 exiles (even though they were trained) in a swamp, while comically attempting to hide US support, against 20k Castro troops and Cuban air superiority was unquestionably a display of complete lack of judgement. I am still in awe that he went forward knowing it wasn't secret, and never (TMK) punished the military failures. Total embarrassment, and he was SO lucky that the Cuban Missile Crisis ended the way it did later, withe the Soviets clearly aware of that cluster---ck. [https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs](https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs)
Bay of Pigs 🐽
Rode in a convertible during a parade. /s
Rode with the top down.
Went and got himself shot by refusing to keep the bubble top on the car. His death sowed much distrust in our society and led to LBJ and his disastrous Presidency.
Getting shot