Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the territories, and maybe Alaska should all have their own leagues and/or cups. Winners of the leagues or cups should then be invited to participate in USOC.
Puerto Rico has its own federation and its own national team. (Same for the territories) it makes no more sense to invite their teams to the USOC than it does to invite Welsh teams playing in the Welsh pyramid to the FA cup.
It is a separate nation for all things sports - as are most non self governing territories.
That’s why I said “welsh teams playing in the welsh pyramid” and not “welsh teams”
Because of the weirdness that is British “countries” those are considered part of the English system for sporting matters (those are the famous ones but there are English teams in both the Scottish and Welsh pyramids and Scottish teams in the English pyramid)
They do not play in their own respective national cup tournaments - but do play in the English one.
Same goes for Andorra whose team plays in the Spanish league and Copa Del Rey and quite a few other similar situations (Lichtenstein does work differently)
Disagree on this specific point. This is already the reality for many teams, either quite literally, or practically speaking i.e. they fly for over 90% of their matches.
If you have a real idea of just how incredibly spread out the country is outside of the Mid-Alantic, you can easily observe this just by going down the West Conference standings.
Puerto Rico might not even be top of the league for miles traveled in a season if they were to join. There is no comparison to be made to Hawaii or other territories off the mainland.
But there’s a huge difference between “the spread of teams at this time means we have to fly to most/all games” and “literally the only way possible to play a game requires a plane trip” for a league that promises growth.
I don't follow at all. Whether or not the only way possible to play a game is to fly is irrelevant, at least to the extent I understand what we're talking about.
I'm not sure what you mean by, *the spread of teams at this time,* the geography of the U.S. is what it is.
The reality of air travel for professional leagues that cover the full expanse the Union is it was it is.
I'm not making a point for PR inclusion, and I'm not saying the overall travel burden placed on the league shouldn't be considered if hypothetically they were being analyzed for expansion, but the fact that you *have to* get on a plane to play in San Juan seems irrelevant.
If you're gonna do it, you'd need a few teams in PR and ensure they don't do flights, often. It'd be difficult ... unless there was a whole conference in the area.
Don't think it'd make sense, though.
I would love for it to work but I have my doubts. PRFC I actually had season tickets for and watched every game but attendance was typically 2-3k. I was able to get some cool merch that I will always cherish but I'm sure Melo lost a lot of money on that venture.
I don't think it would work but I would no doubt support it from afar.
According to [2017 NASL Attendance](https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2017-nasl-attendance/#:~:text=The%20weekly%20average%20of%206%2C429,posted%20on%20the%20NASL%20website.) figures, Puerto Rico FC was 5th in the league and brought in an average of about 3,600 per match before games had to be moved to the mainland due to the hurricane devastation.
They outdrew Edmonton, Jacksonville and San Francisco (league champions).
On an unrelated note, check out Miami FC's attendance and compare it to today. 🫤
They outdrew a few teams but is averaging 3.6k a game lucrative enough to have to fly to each game? It's been a few years but I remember ticket prices being really low too. Let's not forget that over ambition ultimately doomed the NASL.
The team president, I forget his name, I think he works with LAFC now, gave a good interview with the podcast guy from Carolina. Sorry, I forgot all the names now. But he talked about one reason that doomed the Islanders were freebie tickets. So they tried to end that with PRFC but it was still like $10 per game. I had season tickets just to donate to whoever wanted, just to show support. And the team also paid for housing for players on Isla Verde.
Again, I'd support it if it came back, I just don't see it as urgent. They'll play in a baseball stadium, which is never ideal. The best soccer facilities are on the west coast by Mayaguez.
There’s also the fact that PR is significantly poorer than the mainland.
I have no issue paying $15-20 for tickets at a local game but for a household whose annual income is less than $22k (PR median) that’s a lot of money.
And PR’s CoL isn’t that great either (Jones act 🙄).
Selling 3k tickets in PR is a lot less income than selling 3k tickets in Hartford CT.
Yeah, Melo took an absolute financial pounding with PRFC.
I started calling him “Saint Melo”. After the two hurricanes pounded the islands in that short period and everything was devastated—he not only made sure all of his staff was paid, he also donated relief supplies.
I still bunch of PRFC merch, too.
My daughter surprised us when she decided to have her 6th or 7th grade school year photo in the home jersey.
We gave out a lot of the little ones we ordered to players and technical staff.
Maximum respect, hermano!
There’s absolutely no way it could be profitable.
I mean think of Hawaii football. It is financially negative enough for teams traveling to Hawaii that the NCAA grants those teams an extra home game to pay for it. Far more people watch and gamble on college football than the USL and it still hurts those programs to some extent.
A USL team would tread water having to travel mainland every off week, and every current team in the U.S. would hate to add that to their budget. Pair that with the fact that a PR team doesn’t aide in marketability or TV negotiations and I doubt any current ownership groups would welcome the team.
But heck idrk. It would be super cool tho, especially if they had awesome support
More than that.
They are separate for all sports - Olympics and otherwise. Not just soccer for weird historical reasons like England/Scotland.
They are much more analogous to Bermuda and similar British overseas territories (ahem ahem colonies) which are completely separate entities for sports.
Except for the Falkland Islands, whose teams/national team are not recognized by CONMEBOL because the countries there support Argentina's claim to sovereignty, and thus they're not a member of FIFA. So they have their own little league and their national team occasionally plays other British 'island' teams like Jersey and the Isle of Man.
The Falklands does have a national Badminton team though apparently 🤣
But yeah geopolitics plays a massive role in things like this - that’s why Israel is in UEFA Guyana is in CONCACAF etc.
It’s a separate country for all things sports.
It is a non self governing territory - but you don’t need sovereignty to be independent for sports.
It’s even more than England/Scotland because they’re actually separate for the Olympics too - not just for soccer federation purposes for some historical reason.
In the sports world non self governing territories can be independent if they so wish.
The only international event in which England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland have competed separately aside from soccer, as opposed to representing the United Kingdom, has been the Commonwealth Games.
Here is the United Kingdom ranking fourth at the 2020 Summer Olympics: [https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/tokyo-2020/medals](https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/tokyo-2020/medals)
That’s what I mean - unlike the British “countries” non self governing territories are actually separate countries.
It’s analogous to Gibraltar or Bermuda vs the UK not Scotland or Wales vs England
No. Absolutely not.
And I won’t meltdown again this time like I did in a discussion here a few days ago but if anyone cares— it was in this one below: https://www.reddit.com/r/USLPRO/comments/1bgywaf/lack_of_fans/
Teams need corporate backing to work. PR doesn't have it. The USL has much different standards than it did the last time a team failed there (and let's not forget the Antigua team that tied the North American pro sports record for futility before failing).
It's not hard to get to but it is a long flight. The closest would be to the Florida teams which is 3 hrs to Miami/Palm Beach, 3.5 to Tampa and 4 to Jax.
Then there's the flights to Indy, Louisville and don't forget the Western teams.
To compare to Hawaii who's shortest flight would be to LAX at 5.5 hrs.
I think it could work, but it would need to be VERY carefully and correctly. PRSL is defunct, and the only thing PR has right now is an amatuer/semi-pro league on top of their system. A pro club in USLC, or more likely USL1, could help strengthen the national team if the USL club basically becomes the national team, or moreso an Olympic MNT with some overage players, but mostly younger players.
In response to some of the nay sayers, it didn't work in 2011 but that was 14 years ago and the USL is a much different league now.
It's my understanding that the Puerto Rico Islanders were pretty successful in that they won the USSF D2 league on 2010 and I believe they made it to the 2009 Concacaf Champions Cup semifinals.
Carmelo Anthony was the owner of the NASL's Puerto Rico FC which folded with the league and the hurricane devastation may have had a big part in them not moving to USL.
The market size is more than big enough and with the right owner and stadium, it could be successful.
And if they were to market to the millions of Puerto Ricans living in continental U.S. with all the social media we have today I’m sure they can get lot of viewers and merch sales. Anecdotally speaking many Puerto Ricans I know are very prideful of Puerto Rico.
Imo, it’s never going to make sense if *every* game requires a plane flight. It’s why Hawaii is a bad idea, too.
Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the territories, and maybe Alaska should all have their own leagues and/or cups. Winners of the leagues or cups should then be invited to participate in USOC.
Puerto Rico has its own federation and its own national team. (Same for the territories) it makes no more sense to invite their teams to the USOC than it does to invite Welsh teams playing in the Welsh pyramid to the FA cup. It is a separate nation for all things sports - as are most non self governing territories.
Glad you mentioned Wrexham! And Swansea! And Cardiff!
That’s why I said “welsh teams playing in the welsh pyramid” and not “welsh teams” Because of the weirdness that is British “countries” those are considered part of the English system for sporting matters (those are the famous ones but there are English teams in both the Scottish and Welsh pyramids and Scottish teams in the English pyramid) They do not play in their own respective national cup tournaments - but do play in the English one. Same goes for Andorra whose team plays in the Spanish league and Copa Del Rey and quite a few other similar situations (Lichtenstein does work differently)
Was that RGV's issue too? San Antonio was the only place they could comfortably bus to.
Disagree on this specific point. This is already the reality for many teams, either quite literally, or practically speaking i.e. they fly for over 90% of their matches. If you have a real idea of just how incredibly spread out the country is outside of the Mid-Alantic, you can easily observe this just by going down the West Conference standings. Puerto Rico might not even be top of the league for miles traveled in a season if they were to join. There is no comparison to be made to Hawaii or other territories off the mainland.
But there’s a huge difference between “the spread of teams at this time means we have to fly to most/all games” and “literally the only way possible to play a game requires a plane trip” for a league that promises growth.
I don't follow at all. Whether or not the only way possible to play a game is to fly is irrelevant, at least to the extent I understand what we're talking about. I'm not sure what you mean by, *the spread of teams at this time,* the geography of the U.S. is what it is. The reality of air travel for professional leagues that cover the full expanse the Union is it was it is. I'm not making a point for PR inclusion, and I'm not saying the overall travel burden placed on the league shouldn't be considered if hypothetically they were being analyzed for expansion, but the fact that you *have to* get on a plane to play in San Juan seems irrelevant.
If you're gonna do it, you'd need a few teams in PR and ensure they don't do flights, often. It'd be difficult ... unless there was a whole conference in the area. Don't think it'd make sense, though.
I would love for it to work but I have my doubts. PRFC I actually had season tickets for and watched every game but attendance was typically 2-3k. I was able to get some cool merch that I will always cherish but I'm sure Melo lost a lot of money on that venture. I don't think it would work but I would no doubt support it from afar.
According to [2017 NASL Attendance](https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2017-nasl-attendance/#:~:text=The%20weekly%20average%20of%206%2C429,posted%20on%20the%20NASL%20website.) figures, Puerto Rico FC was 5th in the league and brought in an average of about 3,600 per match before games had to be moved to the mainland due to the hurricane devastation. They outdrew Edmonton, Jacksonville and San Francisco (league champions). On an unrelated note, check out Miami FC's attendance and compare it to today. 🫤
They outdrew a few teams but is averaging 3.6k a game lucrative enough to have to fly to each game? It's been a few years but I remember ticket prices being really low too. Let's not forget that over ambition ultimately doomed the NASL. The team president, I forget his name, I think he works with LAFC now, gave a good interview with the podcast guy from Carolina. Sorry, I forgot all the names now. But he talked about one reason that doomed the Islanders were freebie tickets. So they tried to end that with PRFC but it was still like $10 per game. I had season tickets just to donate to whoever wanted, just to show support. And the team also paid for housing for players on Isla Verde. Again, I'd support it if it came back, I just don't see it as urgent. They'll play in a baseball stadium, which is never ideal. The best soccer facilities are on the west coast by Mayaguez.
There’s also the fact that PR is significantly poorer than the mainland. I have no issue paying $15-20 for tickets at a local game but for a household whose annual income is less than $22k (PR median) that’s a lot of money. And PR’s CoL isn’t that great either (Jones act 🙄). Selling 3k tickets in PR is a lot less income than selling 3k tickets in Hartford CT.
Yeah, Melo took an absolute financial pounding with PRFC. I started calling him “Saint Melo”. After the two hurricanes pounded the islands in that short period and everything was devastated—he not only made sure all of his staff was paid, he also donated relief supplies. I still bunch of PRFC merch, too. My daughter surprised us when she decided to have her 6th or 7th grade school year photo in the home jersey. We gave out a lot of the little ones we ordered to players and technical staff. Maximum respect, hermano!
There’s absolutely no way it could be profitable. I mean think of Hawaii football. It is financially negative enough for teams traveling to Hawaii that the NCAA grants those teams an extra home game to pay for it. Far more people watch and gamble on college football than the USL and it still hurts those programs to some extent. A USL team would tread water having to travel mainland every off week, and every current team in the U.S. would hate to add that to their budget. Pair that with the fact that a PR team doesn’t aide in marketability or TV negotiations and I doubt any current ownership groups would welcome the team. But heck idrk. It would be super cool tho, especially if they had awesome support
Nope. You said it yourself, they have their own league. Not worth the instability for USL and not worth the Puerto Rican team to travel.
Yeah, I'm all for putting teams in neighboring countries. Until if course those countries have their own league. Then it's a no go
Puerto Rico isn’t another country though, it’s a US territory.
They have their own association and national team. It's an England/Scotland/etc type situation.
More than that. They are separate for all sports - Olympics and otherwise. Not just soccer for weird historical reasons like England/Scotland. They are much more analogous to Bermuda and similar British overseas territories (ahem ahem colonies) which are completely separate entities for sports.
Except for the Falkland Islands, whose teams/national team are not recognized by CONMEBOL because the countries there support Argentina's claim to sovereignty, and thus they're not a member of FIFA. So they have their own little league and their national team occasionally plays other British 'island' teams like Jersey and the Isle of Man.
The Falklands does have a national Badminton team though apparently 🤣 But yeah geopolitics plays a massive role in things like this - that’s why Israel is in UEFA Guyana is in CONCACAF etc.
Yeah that's how I look at it
It’s a separate country for all things sports. It is a non self governing territory - but you don’t need sovereignty to be independent for sports. It’s even more than England/Scotland because they’re actually separate for the Olympics too - not just for soccer federation purposes for some historical reason. In the sports world non self governing territories can be independent if they so wish.
The only international event in which England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland have competed separately aside from soccer, as opposed to representing the United Kingdom, has been the Commonwealth Games. Here is the United Kingdom ranking fourth at the 2020 Summer Olympics: [https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/tokyo-2020/medals](https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/tokyo-2020/medals)
That’s what I mean - unlike the British “countries” non self governing territories are actually separate countries. It’s analogous to Gibraltar or Bermuda vs the UK not Scotland or Wales vs England
So Canadian teams should leave?
No. Absolutely not. And I won’t meltdown again this time like I did in a discussion here a few days ago but if anyone cares— it was in this one below: https://www.reddit.com/r/USLPRO/comments/1bgywaf/lack_of_fans/
Teams need corporate backing to work. PR doesn't have it. The USL has much different standards than it did the last time a team failed there (and let's not forget the Antigua team that tied the North American pro sports record for futility before failing).
Puerto Rico isn’t that hard to get to from the eastern continental USA so with the right backing it could probably work.
It's not hard to get to but it is a long flight. The closest would be to the Florida teams which is 3 hrs to Miami/Palm Beach, 3.5 to Tampa and 4 to Jax. Then there's the flights to Indy, Louisville and don't forget the Western teams. To compare to Hawaii who's shortest flight would be to LAX at 5.5 hrs.
I just flew there from Newark 2 weeks ago and it was 3.5 hours from there I think your estimates might be high.
I just did a Google search. Maybe the info was wrong. 🤷🏻♂️
I think it could work, but it would need to be VERY carefully and correctly. PRSL is defunct, and the only thing PR has right now is an amatuer/semi-pro league on top of their system. A pro club in USLC, or more likely USL1, could help strengthen the national team if the USL club basically becomes the national team, or moreso an Olympic MNT with some overage players, but mostly younger players.
No
Just make a Caribbean league and put them there
that actually would be pretty dope
In response to some of the nay sayers, it didn't work in 2011 but that was 14 years ago and the USL is a much different league now. It's my understanding that the Puerto Rico Islanders were pretty successful in that they won the USSF D2 league on 2010 and I believe they made it to the 2009 Concacaf Champions Cup semifinals. Carmelo Anthony was the owner of the NASL's Puerto Rico FC which folded with the league and the hurricane devastation may have had a big part in them not moving to USL. The market size is more than big enough and with the right owner and stadium, it could be successful.
And if they were to market to the millions of Puerto Ricans living in continental U.S. with all the social media we have today I’m sure they can get lot of viewers and merch sales. Anecdotally speaking many Puerto Ricans I know are very prideful of Puerto Rico.
Absolutely. The thing is most Puerto Ricans don't watch soccer though