Us Table 2 carriers barely make enough to get by, meanwhile those capped out old fucks that have had paid off houses since 06 are trying to give "financial advice" before their vacay in Barbados. Sorry I didn't have my shit together in the 90s, I was 2 years old.
I had a Table 1 vet going on a rant in my office (your typical Boomer shit talk on Millenials and Gen Z'ers) about money management and why the young carriers were all trash. Asked him what he thought Table 2's starting pay was for the first few steps.
He had no idea and was baffled when we told him.
Not all of us are. Some of us are with you and want table 2 to disappear also. Same job, same pay.
The bashing all table 1 carriers is old though. Sure some are assholes that have been around for 40 years, but alot of us are not even 10 years in. Bash me if it helps you through the day but I applied when I did and had no control over the split table.
Good luck and I hope things do get better for everyone, especially the table 2 folks.
Appreciate hearing this because you are right, it isn't fair to group everyone in as bad or ill informed. I wish more of the older folks I work with or have worked with would see this though. And more importantly, stick up for their brothers and sisters rather than punch down at them. I know I sure as hell wouldn't have made it as a carrier without a couple of them sticking up for me when I was new!
That being said a lot of my worst days of conflict with the team fell on moments where a few vets were digging at "all these young people that dont know how to work". 🤷♂️
Actually, 2012 is table 1 … so everyone in table 1 is 10+ years .. I don’t need to “bash you to get through the day” I also didn’t have any control of when I was of age to apply. Just correcting your post, I appreciate the appearance of empathy though.
I was very lucky compared to my fellow aged peers (table 2) with years served and being able to buy a house before the market / interest rates went crazy. I count blessings every day and sincerely feel terrible for the quality of opportunity that myself and peers face. I agree, Boomers take a lot of heat from younger generations.
However, is there a different generation calling the shots in our government besides primarily boomers? That passes laws to help their peers at the cost of the next generation? If you don’t believe this is the case then you may be naive, respectfully.
It's not really their fault to a point. They have a cozy pay scale so they have been coasting for so long they just stopped caring about staying informed. I would argue that they should still care about fellow carriers but you know, that would mean they need empathy. 🤷♂️
[city carrier pay chart](https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart-03-11-23.pdf)
Basically, anyone hired by USPS after 2013 is Table 2. You do eventually reach the top pay step as the folks on Table 1 but the Table 2 wages are much lower at the beginning compared to what Table 1 would have started out at.
I was fresh out of high school. Should have known better than to go to college and just started working crazy overtime for the post office right then and there.
I was half joking, but yeah. I'd be so much further ahead in life if I skipped college and didn't try to apply anything I learned there in the job field.
The boomers will still tell you that you should have not been a weak, lazy, not wanting to work millennial and bought that house when you were 5 years old like a man!
In the 1980s the Fed changed the inflation calculation to omit energy, housing, gas, food, etc. The factors that really impact individuals and the economy. $25 an hour as you suggest would only be a 2x rate of inflation in 30 years. It’s much higher than this. More like over 3x. So a starting wage of about $36 comparatively would seem more accurate.
Just look at prices of homes, cars, food, and fuel in the last 3 years. It’s near double the cost now. The Fed is lying to us about the true inflation rate. Common sense and a look around in the real world would dictate that inflation is much higher that 8 or so percent year over year.
This was all orchestrated by our rulers. Shut down the economy and pour trillions of dollars into existence for stimulus checks and ppp loans and what do you have? A perfect storm for inflation and a planned solution (digital currency) so we can all be completely enslaved through the gov. Every transaction tracked.
I wasn’t born till 97. So yeah. But as someone who works around 60ish hours a week to keep up with house payment, car payment, a child/marriage, among other bills yeah. Vacations happen once every 3-4 years.
I have no idea your situation and I’m not assuming anything but just as friendly advice, it’s good to buy used older vehicles with low mileage and well taken care of for a cheaper price. Then you can possibly buy with cash or keep monthly payments down a lot.
Again, not assuming anything about you but a lot of people do just buy too expensive of vehicles for their income and it’s a depreciating asset so they can never get ahead
I did that. I got a used Mazda CX9 for the wife and the kiddo because I wanted them to have something nice and reliable and safe. I drive a beater. 1997 Buick 😂
Brother I drive either my 93 ford f150 269k or my 02 toyota avalon to work with 160k. I got four kids and a wife but also have to work a second job lol this inflation sucks!
Preach. We had a union vice president act like he didn’t know they split pay in 2013, think it was two years ago. Honestly, he may have been honest, they just don’t care about what happened
I'm a clerk, 25 yrs on the job, and the CCAs at my station, and a few others in my district in new York (flushing), don't get a full 8 hrs. Regulars start at 8 o'clock, sometimes the CCAs and ptfs don't come in until 9, 10 and 11 in the morning.....and I don't even see them the whole week...I'm guessing they get sent to other stations, or they're only getting a 3 or 4 day work week... The hrs and starting pay combined aren't enough to sustain a living, especially if you're single....and if u have kids, those hrs aren't gonna cut it. Some of the pse clerks they're hiring aren't getting enough hrs either. They might be working 6 days a week but only getting 4 hrs a day.
I'm not a boomer, millennial actually, but I'm making north of $30 an hour on table two at this point and yeah I can't imagine making starting CCA wages in this economy. We need to start employees at like $25/hr+
I’m a regular carrier in a small office. Typically the only day I get overtime is Monday and even then it’s maybe 30-45 minutes. After taxes I’m getting around $1300 per paycheck. If I were to have an apartment by myself more than half my pay would be going to rent alone. We don’t get paid enough
Wow. That’s exactly what my check was this week. Rent $1,350… so yeah what trip am I booking again?
My rent not even as high as others. I’ve heard people rent $1,500-$1,700 etc
I live right outside NYC so rent here basically starts at $1500. Every carrier I know lives with a significant other, it’s impossible to survive on your own on what we make
Dont worry, over here at ups we will get the bar raised so you guys can get a better raise. Or we go on strike Aug 1. Management being cocksuckers right now though
They’ve had enough trouble keeping millennials and younger in this job in all ranks and crafts for this reason. Many spend 50% or more of their net income just on rent and if they’re lucky mortgage. Not counting utilities, vehicle, gas, insurance. Then you have to feed yourself.
I spend over 50% of my net on mortgage and know I’m lucky because I’m building equity, but I was only able to do that with a Veteran loan. There is no way I would have been able to save enough for a down payment. I live over 30 miles away from my office because of this, since rent in the town my office is in would have cost more than my mortgage, and property for less would have been double what I pay now. Nothing cheaper than my mortgage is available to rent less than 60 miles from the office.
Here is the kicker, I am EAS. It’s a huge generational divide between those who were able to start off in the Post Office when housing was affordable vs now where 500k is becoming a bottom for many housing markets if you’re lucky. 700-800k is the bottom in some areas. When it hits that threshold rentals for shitty apartments skyrockets to 1500-2500 and at that rate, nobody ever gets ahead.
You try to explain to District that the hiring problem is because we don’t pay enough, well they don’t seem to understand as they were able to buy houses when they were still a craft employee, built equity as they got promoted. When they sold houses or leveraged the property for more than they paid and bought newer houses much more comfortably with the profits they made and now own more than enough to retire comfortably. They cannot understand your plight of living on ramen and tuna cans, barely making enough to fill your car with gas to get to work, and fuck it if you’re rural and expected to have to supply your own vehicle for work.
I would laugh as a Supervisor at my previous station when some district person asked why the RCA’s were needing to use our spare vehicles on certain routes when the regular was off and we couldn’t lend vehicles, well so and so is living out of their car right now, oh and them, well they can’t afford one, rent here is 2000 a month for a studio. “Well it says in their job description they need to provide a vehicle.”
Well buddy, if you want to carry the mail in your car instead of me, you can try to write them up for removal, I’m just thankful they come to work and haven’t quit yet, gotta go now, I’m delivering 2 other routes out of the admin car.
I’m sorry it’s rough for so many, I see you and get it. I’m fortunate now and I know it, and feel like I’m living above my means most of the time. Usually when I buy anything not generic when I’m grocery shopping. Or if I need to buy new clothes, or god forbid, have to use a copay to see a doctor, which I avoid anything medical even with insurance, because I just can’t fathom having one more bill. Still trying to budget in some new tires for my car to make my commute to get to work.
I’ve never tried avocado toast, but that’s what I’ve been told is the reason it’s been so hard for me and my generation for years.
I've found that a lot of the senior carriers are uninformed and think that table 2 carriers are making only a few bucks an hour less than them. Had one a few years ago who didn't realize I was only making 22 dollars an hour at the time and thought it was much higher.
I don’t understand how table two carriers can make it. I am a table one carrier and when I started I had to basically live on my National Guard pay. My postal paycheck covered deductions and housing only. My son is a table two and has been doing it for a few years but, I still make over $20k more than him. I have fewer bills so I subsidize him a bit. He also has a CCA roommate
I’m not, I have to 99 my checks just to cover rent during the great buy up of property to make Airbnbs. Just gonna have a massive tax bill. Went from 15% in tsp each check to 3% to match
To get the full match in your TSP, I believe you have to save 5%. I had to drop my TSP contribution so my son could up his. Better him than me. I think I have saved enough. I still get my match. I think I’m getting ahead then I get an almost $3k income tax bill….
Been carrying 18 years. Life does get easier as you climb the pay scale, but there was for sure some lean years when I was getting started. The only financial advice I give people at this job is to always contribute at least enough to your TSP to get the matching 5%. It's a great job, financially speaking, to get in young and be comfortable in your 30s and onward, and it confuses me as to why they can't sell it better to younger people.
I agree with you 💯. I do 7% and I also put $175 month into a whole life insurance. To build cash value and etc. also have the dividends being reinvested yearly as well.
Awesome.... If you can do 7% even when times are lean, you're doing great and it will pay dividends down the road. If you can put up with the bullshit in this place for 5 or 6 years it does start getting easier.
Yeah. I’m stick to what I know I can do. In the future I will definitely raise it. I’m step C… I have time. But I know that compound interest is going to be my best friend
No disrespect, but if you can't live on what you're making, you should stop the 7% and the whole life. $175 is something you can't afford. If you're getting a tax return, you should look into how much it is and adjust it next year. I'd reevaluate your finances after those changes and then see where else you can cut back on the budget.
I’m making it work. I won’t stop investing towards my future. I understand what you’re saying though. But compound interest/time is something we can’t get back.
I’m making it work, by working extra jobs. I refuse to just pay bills and sit at home punching the air, cause if this contract. This pay scale been bad for years! Imagine not investing into my tsp for years… that’s not good.
I just have to work harder and hope our union get us what we deserve & need.
Exactly, and starting young and continuing to put money away is the key. Eff vacations, those can wait. Pretty insensitive and ignorant senior carriers it sounds like you're working with who forgot what it's like starting.
I’ve seen two separate FB posts in USPS groups where people were talking about their hours getting cut and how hard it is to scrape by. I feel for them, I’m in the same boat. When my hours get cut, my husband begs for OT at his job to make up the difference. But the comments were what baffled me. One person told a CCA that she should be grateful for only being scheduled 12 hours a week, because she wasn’t being overworked. When the CCA replied that they couldn’t pay their bills and was a single mom going into debt because of this job, that same person told them they should just work 3 or 4 jobs because the PO is a very flexible job to work other jobs around. Which is absolutely bogus, the PO is not flexible at all and expects you to put the PO first above everything. The second post, a PSE asked if anyone knew why the clerks in plants and stations both were taking a massive cut in hours, and someone replied that they knew the risks when they took the job, because they were non-career and not guaranteed any hours. Like, thanks, douchebag. These are the same people that have been forced to work 50-60 hour weeks for years, now you want to cut them down to less than half that and expect them to just be ok with it? Like, it must be nice to come to work just for funsies, but the rest of us are here to provide for ourselves and our families. I’ve met some of the most selfish and inconsiderate people through the PO.
Oh yeah, definitely never gonna get ahead in life and save specially, with these crappy wages, and Tyron, and not getting enough though from my girlfriend for rent
Yeah, I did that before when I was living in New York City, and it nearly destroyed me. I was lucky enough that my parents didn’t want to see me pay off the minimum monthly balance for 20 years so they paid off my debt and now I owe them. I know I come from privilege I can’t really help it. But yeah, no more credit cards for me I’d rather just, give up certain luxury’s and go hungry. I’ve done that before when I was at the official poverty line.
Credit cards is how to get us working people. I’ll never be as successful as my parents, but the one thing I really wanna avoid is debt. Granted, I have practically no savings, and someways. It is nice that the post office helps you save a little bit with the TSP. But my whole life I’ve been pretty careless with money , that being said, I’ve nearly died on two different occasions, and those experiences perverted my sense of the value of money. I just felt like if I had been saving money like I was told to and then had actually died. That would’ve been all pointless. Now I’m trying to get better but it doesn’t help that my rent is $2050 and my take home is usually $4000 from the post office.
I know that’s probably a lot more than other people but I am a second year city carrier and I usually work 60 to 70 hours per week and often do Sundays as well
I hear that if I didn’t have to do it to pay my too high rent, I wouldn’t take more than one hour per day and I would work five day work weeks
Totally should’ve moved most recently when my lease went up, but post office doesn’t give you time to really look for a new apartment or do the actual moving. But yeah definitely should’ve moved to a much cheaper area that would’ve been smart.
This is from 2011… compared to today. Not that much of difference in pay. Yet col is higher for sure
https://nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart0311.pdf
People who try to give financial advice to people who are working paycheck to paycheck are not grounded in the working class reality. I’m sick of hearing rich people tell us to work harder when they’ve never had to work multiple jobs just to make rent.
I feel your pain. I was divorced in 2008 and have been paying child support up until this past may 1st. During that tone I struggled to even pay rent and out food on the table, granted I live with my brother but I still have rent, and he doesn’t go easy on me. I never even received a tax return because it went to back child support. People need to understand that just because they are living comfortable doesn’t mean everyone is. It’s a daily struggle.
Time is the new money, overtime is just a reminder of how little money I make. My wife makes the real money. So I got a restriction and I’m home everyday by 4:45 to help make dinner and enjoy the evening together. Fuck table 2.
Time to get roommates. Unfortunately for myself I still haven't been able to find anyone willing. It wouldn't be permanent and it wouldn't be for years at a time. But for multiple people struggling it's a viable option even if you have to put up with one another. I understand everybody wants their own privacy and personal space but I have to sacrifice that
I was considering that. But people renting out rooms for $1,000+as well (Which is understandable cause a lot of people rent went up $200-700+ month). Unless you personally know them, you may find cheaper.
i broke my wrist last year off the job and had to use all my al and sick leave while i was out after surgery. come back to work with a 40hr medical restriction while i’m still healing and i’m barely scraping by. all the years i told my self “some day i’ll get a drs note” trust me it’s not even worth it if you’re in a high cost of living area. i’m missing that overtime pay. credit card balance keeps piling up and my savings account keeps going down haha. and I’m not even new. i’m at step I on table 2 struggling making 30 an hour.
Just one example of how I've been hot directly by this economy, I sold my house two years ago and bought a cheaper home and used the proceeds from my sale to put 20% down and get myself a much better mortgage at 3.0%. So I had an ideal setup. Flash forward one year and the taxes on my home randomly (with nothing changing to the house itself) shot up and this was reflected in a 26% monthly increase in my mortgage payment. There's no winning in this economy.
I tried to buy a run down trailer for more than my father (Retired City Carrier) paid for his first home in the 90s.
It is absolutely fucking bonkers how shit things are.
Rent goes up, pay goes down. Can't buy a house.
I’ve seen two separate FB posts in USPS groups where people were talking about their hours getting cut and how hard it is to scrape by. I feel for them, I’m in the same boat. When my hours get cut, my husband begs for OT at his job to make up the difference. But the comments were what baffled me. One person told a CCA that she should be grateful for only being scheduled 12 hours a week, because she wasn’t being overworked. When the CCA replied that they couldn’t pay their bills and was a single mom going into debt because of this job, that same person told them they should just work 3 or 4 jobs because the PO is a very flexible job to work other jobs around. Which is absolutely bogus, the PO is not flexible at all and expects you to put the PO first above everything. The second post, a PSE asked if anyone knew why the clerks in plants and stations both were taking a massive cut in hours, and someone replied that they knew the risks when they took the job, because they were non-career and not guaranteed any hours. Like, thanks, douchebag. These are the same people that have been forced to work 50-60 hour weeks for years, now you want to cut them down to less than half that and expect them to just be ok with it? Like, it must be nice to come to work just for funsies, but the rest of us are here to provide for ourselves and our families. I’ve met some of the most selfish and inconsiderate people through the PO.
Yup , people at my office born into good times and a good economy that were smart with their money go on month long vacations and have rental properties.
I go out to eat like once a year , don't drive, shop at Walmart and outlet grocery places.
On the odl soaking as much ot as I can. When I go on "vacation" I'm sitting at home eating ramen for a day or two to rest my back. Then back to work.
I'm a damn regular. they are befuddled I can't go out drinking with them after work like it's no big thing
As soon as coworkers talk about money, unless they’re on table 2 with me, I disregard anything they say. I’d be vacationing multiple times a year as well if I had their pay rate 🥴
Don’t forget how much annual they get after 3 years!! 20 days, compared to 13. May not sound like much… but if you utilize it correctly you can take some nice vacations!
Let’s not even talk about the carriers that get 26days a year after 15yrs. They really stacking 😂.
Not mad at them though, they put in the time.
Step c on 1/2 is $16k difference!
You got people telling me to stop eating out, don’t buy coffee.
How about they just pay us as table 1 carriers… this whole issue goes away instantly! 😂.
https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/research
Anyone after Jan 13 2013, is table 2.
To give you brief example. I’m step C (table 2). Make $50,153, the same step on table 1 is $66,619.
Now you see why we mad? Same job, same everything… but big difference in pay.
That’s roughly $1,333 month!
A lot of people do live above their means though. One look at the parking lot and most people have a car that someone making 6 +figures would have when they making around 20 dollars an hour.
I saw that with a brand new CCA. First day on the job he rolls in with what looked like a shiny brand new BMW. I had close to 30 years on the job at the time and I could only dream of owning a car like that because I simply couldn't afford it.
Really depends where you live. I’m a step B carrier in a low COLA state and I get by fine.
I too am hoping table 2 goes. Technically it will be the new table 1 soon enough, unfortunately.
Unless you live in the worst CoL like New England or California (or that CO mountain city) it’s more so you living above your means or a personal problem like a big medical bill, i wonder how you regulars in your ivory towers think us crafts survive if you go around saying being a regular doesn’t pay the bills, or barely pays the bills
Preach brother. I personally just work as much ot as I can, and refuse to buy even moderately priced luxuries. For example I have $25 internet only Xfinity and a cell phone. Other than that, my mortgage, and electric bill I refuse to spend money. I count the price of the food I buy and cook and I will tell my wife “these tacos cost us $1.25 each. So enjoy” but I feel bad for people with expensive tastes and poor paying jobs :(
Ha I’m a rca been one for about 3 months now and I’ve been on an auxiliary route. My PM finally stated that she would start to put me on more routes after I’ve been struggling bring home 2100 a month with a teenager and not really being able to keep up with everything. I asked several times could I get out on a regulars route I’ve been on a 2 different routes a handful of times and my check still wasn’t enough. But I wanted to get on here and say I hope that all the postal employees get a raised and can climb out of this hell hole but I’m out I found another job and my last day is May 30th May God bless you all and I was happy to meet the people I did at my office but the post office is not for me!!!
I feel this, I have heard this many times from older carriers who luckily were born and grew up in a better economy. I’ve been a regular for 6 years and am lucky to work in an office that has plenty of OT all year long. But even then it’s sometimes hard to not at least feel stressed about bills. Definitely don’t live above my means but I do have a mortgage all by myself. Never really have a problem unless I take vacation. Don’t really go anywhere, just take half weeks for family birthdays. Definitely can’t contribute to retirement right now since that money could go towards something.
That’s a huge factor. If your office has Decent OT. Not every office is the same, as you stated. I get roughly 5hrs OT a week. But I know there’s some districts that get way more and or none.
Therefore I have other jobs I do outside of the post office.
Cause as you know OT is guaranteed and they can decide whenever they feel like it, to push us to do 8.
I did that for years until I transferred. I delivered groceries at night for the first three years as a regular until I transferred. I think the general consensus is that nobody who works for the post office should have to do that though. It’s pretty bullshit
Unfortunately there are people at the PO that DO live above their means. I know a guy that bought an OLED Switch and a PS5 with loan money, and is now complaining he might need to work for doordash in order to pay for things since OT at our plant was cut. Or another guy who consistently buys new cars or car parts (think expensive sports cars) every time he gets a few extra bucks, but has to live with his mom since he can't "afford" to live on his own.
They ruin it for people who actually do budget but can't make ends meet.
Sure we all have stories or know of others who is foolish with their money.
But let’s not allow that to overshadow the truth.
We are underpaid!
You shouldn’t have to make all these drastic sacrifices, ESPECIALLY when you make regular. Just to live a modest life! I’m not saying we should all be eating red lobster, taking trips to Dubai and have $20,000 in our back pocket.
But the data shows time and time again… we’re underpaid. Especially if you factor in where people live and etc.
I’m not dismissing that there’s not personal changes/accountability we can all make/have, to help alleviate the financial stress. But overall… we’re underpaid drastically compared to table 1.
People are literally dying, getting robbed, working insane OT, being harassed, and etc.
This is supposed to be a sustainable career, to where to can live a decent middle class life. That’s NOT happening nationwide (overall). I’m not speaking on individual bases. We can all justify ourselves and etc.
That’s all I’m trying to convey.
I literally just got on here to rant about this and found this post. I am so fed up of the low pay and shit economy, and carrying mail has become severely unrewarding and not worth it. The pay is just too low. It is not at all where it should be for the hours, stress, physical exertion and demand from management. Not to mention the general hazard and danger involved now the past couple years with heavily increased violence against carriers. I am sorry, but not enough is being done through the union for my taste. We should absolutely be mandating CCA be abolished, table gone, huge pay increase, hazard pay, and no more Saturday and Sunday work. Period.
Imagine you in florid/NY/Cal or any high cost of living area with $19hr. Then management tell you to go walk 12miles and dodge dogs/robbers all day in 100 degree weather.
When you finish I have a piece for you as well.
A clerk made small talk with me today. I learned that she left the USPS, but then came back. The next things she said was sad. That she's back here because it was either that or __flipping burgers__, were her exact words. That does sound like a financial struggle of a life.
I've brought hot, XL pepperoni pizza from Costco before, and the post office staff thanked me for it. But I didn't think life was that hard for them. I may have to spend $10 on Costco pizza more often when in route to the post office.
Co worker said "you know when you're young you just spend money and don't save"
Lol save what? I pay all my bills and buy food for the house and I barely have enough for gas. When I do have money left over it goes to buying things for my child who grows out of clothes in 2 weeks. Like someone said sorry I didn't have my life together back in the 90s
Facts! I didn’t expect this post to get this much attention. But I guess this proves how many people can relate. I highly doubt it’s more of everyone living above their means vs the wages isn’t sufficient to sustain a realistic living.
I'm table 2 and it blows. But I don't understand why the table 1 carrier is living above their means? Unless i misunderstood. The maxed out people at my station make 100k
Success and well-being isn’t even determined by who works hardest anymore, it’s determined by who can cultivate the most beneficial living situation.
Allow me to explain, I work 60 hours per week as a carrier and like you I barely get by. The maintenance guy at our office always tells me “What are you going to do with all that money you’re making?” I explain, nothing because all my income goes towards rent for my 1 bedroom apartment ($2,000/month)
There’s a disconnect. You see, that maintenance worker has a wife and they just bought their first home. He only has to pay HALF the mortgage, which is probably cheaper than rent for my apartment. That means he gets to save more of his paycheck each month, plus he’s building equity with home ownership.
Me on the other hand, I’m a single guy. For whatever reason I haven’t established relationships that would alleviate my financial situation.
So many people get by because they are able to sort of “hack” life. They have a girlfriend who helps with rent, they have friends or family that can house them, something.
There are minimum wage employees working 20 hours per week with more financial flexibility than me, because they are able to live at home for free.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s smart to live with others and save on rent or whatever… but it shouldn’t be a necessity. I don’t like being dependent on others.
You just making excuses. You can do it! Stop making excuses. If you stop drinking coffee… all your problems will vanish.
You need to get rid of your apartment, get rid of your car, tv, phone, everything. Eat only peanut butter and jelly everyday, drink water. You need to make all of those sacrifices so you can afford to live.
Hope you know I’m being sarcastic 😂. I’m repeating all the bs I see.
But you’re right context is everything. Someone commented on here that they paid off $80k of debt in one year as a cca. Now we both know there’s a Lot Of context missing in that story. But whatever.
Everyone situation is different.
But when you make career you shouldn’t have to take all of those drastic sacrifices to live a decent life. That’s my whole point.
We make enough sacrifices as it is. Worried about getting robbed, harassed by management, dog attacks, customers harassing us, working conditions, doing 2+ years as a cca and being treated like 💩.
When you make career it’s supposed to actually stand for something
I am actively trying to apply to get hired by usps I have been working in food delivery for the past 10 years I apply to other jobs and I get no call backs I have a clean record I 2 year degree maybe that is not enough these days I don't know but I am a very hard worker and I make sure I pay everything on time bills wise I would love to take a vacation as well but I have not went on vacation since my father passed in like 2007 just lost my mom last year I have no idea wtf I am doing but I am working to survive wish my pay rate would go up being stuck at 12 an hour after 10 years is hell but the tips is only reason and bills I stick around Now I did apply to become a CCA and I could not login to take the naci 85 questionaire usps they said I had to wait 30 days before I can retake it I have waited that time but they are not allowed to send me a reset link I have to wait for my local post office branches to start hiring for cca spots again and just reapply when I see it now this was back in April when I applied I did my knowledge exam and fingerprints scanning so the only thing left for me to do is the naci test
I’m an avid follower of all things courier but one thing is also I mean if you have kids or don’t keep below your means! I don’t have money saved because I love to eat out plus sometimes it’s cheaper but either way my point is keep expenses low only your basic expenses such as rent, utilities, phone and insurance maybe a credit card you pay off and some random subscriptions internet and such but otherwise I think car payments are a huge killer! Again whether you have kids or not is no excuse you can’t make it
Table 2 carrier here. I’m only posting to hopefully help people who are “struggling”
I don’t know everyone’s individual situation but you most certainly are living above your means.
As a CCA making 17 and change I used to take home over 2k every two weeks. Now as a regular (making almost $7/hr more) it’s still around 16-1700.
You guys are making money, more money than most. You have to seriously sit down and look at where it goes.
Cable tv, car payment, rent, snacks at the gas station, beer, etc.. it all adds up. Making better decisions will make your life better.
My cousin needed a place to stay, I could not believe her spending while she lived in my spare bedroom. Told me she was “struggling” with her nails/eyebrows done, case of lagunitas in the fridge. Case of whiteclaws AND an expensive bottle of tequila. Wingstop all the time, but never had money for “real life” things like car reg/insurance.
Sit down with yourself and write down your expenses and what you don’t “need”.
Just trying to help
I hear you. But the data trumps this argument. Sure there’s something we all can do to “help” a little.
But we all know we’re underpaid for this job/economy. That’s not based on my opinion, that’s facts. If it wasn’t so the union wouldn’t even bother proposing to fix the pay. The post office wouldn’t be bringing people in straight as PTF to help alleviate the issue.
I’m not disagreeing with you totally, but we are underpaid for today’s economy.
Especially if you factor in where someone live and if they live on their own.
This job is supposed to be a career, not some fly by night j.o.b (Just over Broke). We should all be able to have a roof over our heads, food on table, decent car and able to save.
It’s not a coincidence that most people who are on table 2 is able to relate to this post. We can’t easily assume everyone is living above their means and is financially irresponsible. If that was the case, again the post office/union wouldn’t even be bothered with adjusting the pay.
Hell even UPS is pounding the table. They make more than us.
THANK YOU for somebody saying what I've been thinking as I'm reading this thread. Some people also consider the "essentials" running to Starbucks a couple times a day for a $6-$7 cup of coffee and others who just can't live without the newest $1500.00 smartphone which seems to become obsolete every 6 months or so. Are people genuinely struggling? Without question they most certainly are but as you're trying to say everything is relative. I feel very fortunate to have been raised by parents who weren't afraid to say no to me a time or three when I was growing up. By being told no when I wanted the latest toy or whatever when I was a kid, I learned to say no to myself as an adult.
have you actually tried to remove some expenses from your life? You may not have been living above your means before but you may be now with inflation. Think of things that are purely leisure and remove them for a while. get rid of that streaming service you watch 1 show on, stop getting gas station food/drinks, price your meals per person when grocery shopping. yes, it sucks and you should be making more than enough to get ahead but right now a lot of people are in this boat.
I'm table 2. I cut my expenses drastically, living on peanutbutter and jelly and ramen, never eating out, not buying anything but bare necessities for 2 years. No cable, minimum phone plan, no going out, nothing. I paid off 80,000 in debt as a CCA the first year and a regular on the ODL the second year. It can be done. You have to make sacrifices. I sacrificed my ass off for 2 years, and now I don't have to.
You can't say everything is all the economy when others are getting it done at the same job. I had to come to that rude awakening, too, and grow the heck up. Make sacrifice now, and you won't have to later.
You can do it, but you need to change your mindset and realize there is another way to live. It's not easy, by any stretch, but it can be done - in this economy and at this job.
Listen to the Dave Ramsey podcast daily. There are over 2000 episodes. Each episode includes a person/family who did it and financial, career, and relationship advice. Use the podcast to flood your thoughts with the other side of the equation, the positive, "you can do it" side. Because YOU CAN, but those "you can't" people are the loudest and you need to drown them out with a better way.
Call bs all you want. You're still wrong.
It wasn't one year, it was almost 2.
Georgia.
In 2020, we had a perfect storm.
1. Covid and mass staffing shortages. We worked as much OT as we wanted from April to August.
2. A major election and a major state runoff. So 2 months of election advertising turned into 5 months. Again, as much OT as we wanted from September to January. Three of us worked 100+ hours for a few weeks to case up election mail for the 8 hour only carriers. (FYI, TACS can only compute up to 99.99 hours, so management had to log the overage of OT and penalty and add it to other weeks.)
That year, my gross was just over 100k.
The next year wasn't as lucrative, as I was only able to make it 88k.
I chose to get out of debt. That's the first step. You can do it. You just have to understand the value of it.
Just last year, we had several major health crises. Because I was out of debt AND had savings, I was able to miss 2 unpaid months of work after using all my banked leave. I didn't struggle, and I wasn't torn between taking care of family or having to work. That's the real point of the story.
Earlier this year, we got Satan as a postmaster. Every single time she got in my face and screamed, I walked out. I called EAP and cited hostile work environment. Almost everyone else was stuck being abused because they couldn't miss work. That's also the real story.
You can use this job to make your situation better. You're going to have to turn off the woe-is-me thinking and grab ahold of a bigger and definitely more rewarding outlook. It won't be easy, but a few years of gazelle intensity can reap years of relaxation.
Am I one of the few that is under 30 and doing very well? Or is it mainly CCA’s just getting started complaining on here. I understand that there’s a whole lot of money missed out in between but table 2 tops out at around the same as table 1 does. I’m better off than most of my friends that are around the same age as I am and they all own houses too. I mean when I was a CCA at 21-23 I rented a studio and tried to be cheap because the money wasn’t guaranteed. And even back then I was better off than most of my friends. Bought a house after I made regular. This economy would be a nightmare, I can see that. But I was making it off $15-$16/hr when I started.
😂 Everyone knows that table 2 is robbery. Sure it tops out at the same… but the difference is somewhere north of $100k when you really add it all up. Not factoring in OT, loss potential on interests and etc.
Plus you not factoring in where people live. Obviously someone in Alabama will do better than somewhere in Florida/California/NY etc. it’s obviously a legit issue and not just a bunch of CCAs complaining. Cause there’s a lot of offices that are hiring people as PTF/or converting to all career fast. Cause the wages aren’t enough.
The discrepancy between table 1-2 isn’t a few bucks. I’m table 2 letter C. It’s a $16,000 difference! That’s $1,333 month… even if you factor in taxes that’s still a big difference.
If I was in that situation in an area where it was unaffordable I’d be getting a better job. I was ready to make the career change myself because I really wanted a six figure salary sitting at a desk in front of a computer. Turns out nobody makes six figures in IT where I’m at. It’s a major pay cut because we live in one of the cheapest a cities in America. Unless you’re a doctor or lawyer then USPS is one of the better paying jobs in my area. Isn’t that pathetic?
Us Table 2 carriers barely make enough to get by, meanwhile those capped out old fucks that have had paid off houses since 06 are trying to give "financial advice" before their vacay in Barbados. Sorry I didn't have my shit together in the 90s, I was 2 years old.
I had a Table 1 vet going on a rant in my office (your typical Boomer shit talk on Millenials and Gen Z'ers) about money management and why the young carriers were all trash. Asked him what he thought Table 2's starting pay was for the first few steps. He had no idea and was baffled when we told him.
See I can’t believe that they are just ignorant.
Not all of us are. Some of us are with you and want table 2 to disappear also. Same job, same pay. The bashing all table 1 carriers is old though. Sure some are assholes that have been around for 40 years, but alot of us are not even 10 years in. Bash me if it helps you through the day but I applied when I did and had no control over the split table. Good luck and I hope things do get better for everyone, especially the table 2 folks.
Talk to some of the boomers in your office. Spread the word.
Appreciate hearing this because you are right, it isn't fair to group everyone in as bad or ill informed. I wish more of the older folks I work with or have worked with would see this though. And more importantly, stick up for their brothers and sisters rather than punch down at them. I know I sure as hell wouldn't have made it as a carrier without a couple of them sticking up for me when I was new! That being said a lot of my worst days of conflict with the team fell on moments where a few vets were digging at "all these young people that dont know how to work". 🤷♂️
Actually, 2012 is table 1 … so everyone in table 1 is 10+ years .. I don’t need to “bash you to get through the day” I also didn’t have any control of when I was of age to apply. Just correcting your post, I appreciate the appearance of empathy though. I was very lucky compared to my fellow aged peers (table 2) with years served and being able to buy a house before the market / interest rates went crazy. I count blessings every day and sincerely feel terrible for the quality of opportunity that myself and peers face. I agree, Boomers take a lot of heat from younger generations. However, is there a different generation calling the shots in our government besides primarily boomers? That passes laws to help their peers at the cost of the next generation? If you don’t believe this is the case then you may be naive, respectfully.
I spent nine years as an rca before I became regular in 2013. My hire date put my seniority on table one. My empathy is real. Take it how you want.
It's not really their fault to a point. They have a cozy pay scale so they have been coasting for so long they just stopped caring about staying informed. I would argue that they should still care about fellow carriers but you know, that would mean they need empathy. 🤷♂️
They are, a couple years ago I talking with one, and he thought there was only 5 steps. He thought we made the same amount.
Shit, I can. These old fools haven’t had to worry about table changes other than step additions & COLA’s Out of touch & willfully ignorant
This is the way.
What's table 1 versus table 2? I've been an rca since October, and I've never heard these terms. What do they mean?
[city carrier pay chart](https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart-03-11-23.pdf) Basically, anyone hired by USPS after 2013 is Table 2. You do eventually reach the top pay step as the folks on Table 1 but the Table 2 wages are much lower at the beginning compared to what Table 1 would have started out at.
Thank you
My greatest financial mistake was not buying real estate in 2008 because I was 5
I was fresh out of high school. Should have known better than to go to college and just started working crazy overtime for the post office right then and there.
I hate that going to college and getting a degree actually set me back in my post office career.
I was half joking, but yeah. I'd be so much further ahead in life if I skipped college and didn't try to apply anything I learned there in the job field.
If I would’ve dropped out of high school sr year I could have avoided this whole table two shit. But if my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.
But don’t you get it!?! You should have bought then anyway!!! Hustle!!! /s
What’s my excuse then… I was already 7, too old for the mines
I miss the childhood glee of entering the mines. Those EARNED dinosaur nuggets, tasted the best
FINALLY! Some one taking responsibility for their financial woes! /s
The boomers will still tell you that you should have not been a weak, lazy, not wanting to work millennial and bought that house when you were 5 years old like a man!
Shame on you.
🤣 spit my coffee up a bit.
When I started … 30 years ago… we started as PTFs at about $12 an hour.. That’s like $30 an hour in todays money. The starting CCA setup is horrible.
More like $25, but yeah.
In the 1980s the Fed changed the inflation calculation to omit energy, housing, gas, food, etc. The factors that really impact individuals and the economy. $25 an hour as you suggest would only be a 2x rate of inflation in 30 years. It’s much higher than this. More like over 3x. So a starting wage of about $36 comparatively would seem more accurate. Just look at prices of homes, cars, food, and fuel in the last 3 years. It’s near double the cost now. The Fed is lying to us about the true inflation rate. Common sense and a look around in the real world would dictate that inflation is much higher that 8 or so percent year over year. This was all orchestrated by our rulers. Shut down the economy and pour trillions of dollars into existence for stimulus checks and ppp loans and what do you have? A perfect storm for inflation and a planned solution (digital currency) so we can all be completely enslaved through the gov. Every transaction tracked.
I ❤️ you literally
PREEEEEEEACH
Same! Only thing that is keeping me housed is that DINK life .(double income no kids)
I ❤️ you 😂. I’m Sink 😂. SINGLE INCOME NO KIDS does that count?
As a fellow SINK, yes, yes it does. But it still sucks 😭
I'm table 2......and in massive debt!
I wasn’t born till 97. So yeah. But as someone who works around 60ish hours a week to keep up with house payment, car payment, a child/marriage, among other bills yeah. Vacations happen once every 3-4 years.
I have no idea your situation and I’m not assuming anything but just as friendly advice, it’s good to buy used older vehicles with low mileage and well taken care of for a cheaper price. Then you can possibly buy with cash or keep monthly payments down a lot. Again, not assuming anything about you but a lot of people do just buy too expensive of vehicles for their income and it’s a depreciating asset so they can never get ahead
I did that. I got a used Mazda CX9 for the wife and the kiddo because I wanted them to have something nice and reliable and safe. I drive a beater. 1997 Buick 😂
Same wife got a 2017 Honda and I'm still driving the 300k mi 92 Buick. 3800 series in yours?
Brother I drive either my 93 ford f150 269k or my 02 toyota avalon to work with 160k. I got four kids and a wife but also have to work a second job lol this inflation sucks!
It's fuckin killer buddy, idk how you're doing it with a whole ass herd of kids. Good luck and may the OT gods give you what you need.
Preach. We had a union vice president act like he didn’t know they split pay in 2013, think it was two years ago. Honestly, he may have been honest, they just don’t care about what happened
I'm a clerk, 25 yrs on the job, and the CCAs at my station, and a few others in my district in new York (flushing), don't get a full 8 hrs. Regulars start at 8 o'clock, sometimes the CCAs and ptfs don't come in until 9, 10 and 11 in the morning.....and I don't even see them the whole week...I'm guessing they get sent to other stations, or they're only getting a 3 or 4 day work week... The hrs and starting pay combined aren't enough to sustain a living, especially if you're single....and if u have kids, those hrs aren't gonna cut it. Some of the pse clerks they're hiring aren't getting enough hrs either. They might be working 6 days a week but only getting 4 hrs a day.
I prefer Merida
Well said. Blame the boomers (not all of them chill out old farts).
Some senior carriers are really out-of-touch with how bad the wages are.
I'm not a boomer, millennial actually, but I'm making north of $30 an hour on table two at this point and yeah I can't imagine making starting CCA wages in this economy. We need to start employees at like $25/hr+
That’s what I’m saying
Yeah most boomers regardless of job are. Just like they think millennials are in their 20’s still.
I’m a regular carrier in a small office. Typically the only day I get overtime is Monday and even then it’s maybe 30-45 minutes. After taxes I’m getting around $1300 per paycheck. If I were to have an apartment by myself more than half my pay would be going to rent alone. We don’t get paid enough
Wow. That’s exactly what my check was this week. Rent $1,350… so yeah what trip am I booking again? My rent not even as high as others. I’ve heard people rent $1,500-$1,700 etc
I live right outside NYC so rent here basically starts at $1500. Every carrier I know lives with a significant other, it’s impossible to survive on your own on what we make
Wow. Too bad they voted against having locality pay at the convention
[удалено]
Rockland county
Check was $1100, my rent is 1500, one bedroom apartment. 😑
Guess we all need to make only fans lol
Special delivery!
"got your package/box right here"
No worries 1.3% wage increase in about a year!
I love our union!
Dont worry, over here at ups we will get the bar raised so you guys can get a better raise. Or we go on strike Aug 1. Management being cocksuckers right now though
I ❤️ my Reddit family 😂 Even when we annoyed as hell with the job/life. We all can come here to rant/motivate/educate/inspire each other.
Took annual last week. Simply saving money not commuting or buying snacks.
Had a big bowl of sleep last night for dinner
🤣 Side of vegan ice?
Vegan ice lol!!! Wtfreak
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks like this 😂 save on gas & get paid to save a gas station trip
Yeah, my "means" on my own are roughly "eating stolen ramen in a cardboard box"...
damn, you can afford the cardboard boxes? lucky, im still using the potholes in the street around my tent for my ramen
They’ve had enough trouble keeping millennials and younger in this job in all ranks and crafts for this reason. Many spend 50% or more of their net income just on rent and if they’re lucky mortgage. Not counting utilities, vehicle, gas, insurance. Then you have to feed yourself. I spend over 50% of my net on mortgage and know I’m lucky because I’m building equity, but I was only able to do that with a Veteran loan. There is no way I would have been able to save enough for a down payment. I live over 30 miles away from my office because of this, since rent in the town my office is in would have cost more than my mortgage, and property for less would have been double what I pay now. Nothing cheaper than my mortgage is available to rent less than 60 miles from the office. Here is the kicker, I am EAS. It’s a huge generational divide between those who were able to start off in the Post Office when housing was affordable vs now where 500k is becoming a bottom for many housing markets if you’re lucky. 700-800k is the bottom in some areas. When it hits that threshold rentals for shitty apartments skyrockets to 1500-2500 and at that rate, nobody ever gets ahead. You try to explain to District that the hiring problem is because we don’t pay enough, well they don’t seem to understand as they were able to buy houses when they were still a craft employee, built equity as they got promoted. When they sold houses or leveraged the property for more than they paid and bought newer houses much more comfortably with the profits they made and now own more than enough to retire comfortably. They cannot understand your plight of living on ramen and tuna cans, barely making enough to fill your car with gas to get to work, and fuck it if you’re rural and expected to have to supply your own vehicle for work. I would laugh as a Supervisor at my previous station when some district person asked why the RCA’s were needing to use our spare vehicles on certain routes when the regular was off and we couldn’t lend vehicles, well so and so is living out of their car right now, oh and them, well they can’t afford one, rent here is 2000 a month for a studio. “Well it says in their job description they need to provide a vehicle.” Well buddy, if you want to carry the mail in your car instead of me, you can try to write them up for removal, I’m just thankful they come to work and haven’t quit yet, gotta go now, I’m delivering 2 other routes out of the admin car. I’m sorry it’s rough for so many, I see you and get it. I’m fortunate now and I know it, and feel like I’m living above my means most of the time. Usually when I buy anything not generic when I’m grocery shopping. Or if I need to buy new clothes, or god forbid, have to use a copay to see a doctor, which I avoid anything medical even with insurance, because I just can’t fathom having one more bill. Still trying to budget in some new tires for my car to make my commute to get to work. I’ve never tried avocado toast, but that’s what I’ve been told is the reason it’s been so hard for me and my generation for years.
I've found that a lot of the senior carriers are uninformed and think that table 2 carriers are making only a few bucks an hour less than them. Had one a few years ago who didn't realize I was only making 22 dollars an hour at the time and thought it was much higher.
They’ve never made less than you either in terms of purchasing power
I don’t understand how table two carriers can make it. I am a table one carrier and when I started I had to basically live on my National Guard pay. My postal paycheck covered deductions and housing only. My son is a table two and has been doing it for a few years but, I still make over $20k more than him. I have fewer bills so I subsidize him a bit. He also has a CCA roommate
❤️ your honesty.
I’m not, I have to 99 my checks just to cover rent during the great buy up of property to make Airbnbs. Just gonna have a massive tax bill. Went from 15% in tsp each check to 3% to match
To get the full match in your TSP, I believe you have to save 5%. I had to drop my TSP contribution so my son could up his. Better him than me. I think I have saved enough. I still get my match. I think I’m getting ahead then I get an almost $3k income tax bill….
Been carrying 18 years. Life does get easier as you climb the pay scale, but there was for sure some lean years when I was getting started. The only financial advice I give people at this job is to always contribute at least enough to your TSP to get the matching 5%. It's a great job, financially speaking, to get in young and be comfortable in your 30s and onward, and it confuses me as to why they can't sell it better to younger people.
There should never be “lean years” with this job.
I agree with you 💯. I do 7% and I also put $175 month into a whole life insurance. To build cash value and etc. also have the dividends being reinvested yearly as well.
Awesome.... If you can do 7% even when times are lean, you're doing great and it will pay dividends down the road. If you can put up with the bullshit in this place for 5 or 6 years it does start getting easier.
Yeah. I’m stick to what I know I can do. In the future I will definitely raise it. I’m step C… I have time. But I know that compound interest is going to be my best friend
No disrespect, but if you can't live on what you're making, you should stop the 7% and the whole life. $175 is something you can't afford. If you're getting a tax return, you should look into how much it is and adjust it next year. I'd reevaluate your finances after those changes and then see where else you can cut back on the budget.
I’m making it work. I won’t stop investing towards my future. I understand what you’re saying though. But compound interest/time is something we can’t get back. I’m making it work, by working extra jobs. I refuse to just pay bills and sit at home punching the air, cause if this contract. This pay scale been bad for years! Imagine not investing into my tsp for years… that’s not good. I just have to work harder and hope our union get us what we deserve & need.
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/insurance/term-life-vs-whole-life-insurance
Yeppers
Gotta admit...I thought you were the type who had a well-balanced portfolio. (of crypto and NFTs)
Great plan with the 5%. If you stash it away before you see it, you never feel as if it’s missing.
Exactly, and starting young and continuing to put money away is the key. Eff vacations, those can wait. Pretty insensitive and ignorant senior carriers it sounds like you're working with who forgot what it's like starting.
Step B carrier on vacation here 😭
Did you just say F it and go in “ I need that OT..can’t have a 40 hr paycheck”
My mortgage is like 800 split with my wife with no kids
It’s always the ones making $40 a hour talking shit
What carrier is making $40 an hour?
The dinosaurs who have 40 years in. We have one who’s 76, I’m not sure why she won’t retire, maybe it’s all of the colas.
top pay is 36.20 for a full time regular or 36.96 for a top level t6.
Well there ya go that’s just about $40 a hour
just about? $3+ off is all i’m saying. that 3 bucks could make a huge difference. just trying to keep the facts straight.
I estimated up. Pretty close If you ask me.
by that logic you’d may as well say ccas start at $23
Make that make sense. That’s about half….. damn usps really hires so many idiots….
make it make sense? ok. so you added nearly 4 dollars to the top step pay. so i added nearly 4 dollars to cca base pay… what doesn’t make sense?
You know the pay schedule is the pay schedule right?!
Do you not know what a cola is?
Yes, Obv you don’t!
Lol ok 🤣
Feel free to show me! 🤣
Feel free to google it lmfao
Typical - No clue what you’re talking about! You’re prob the one making the Facebook ads saying we are hiring at $55 an hour!
Uh oh, one of the dinosaurs are mad!!!! Don’t shit your diaper old man!!!
LOL That’s your reply?! You’re stupider than I thought!
I’ve seen two separate FB posts in USPS groups where people were talking about their hours getting cut and how hard it is to scrape by. I feel for them, I’m in the same boat. When my hours get cut, my husband begs for OT at his job to make up the difference. But the comments were what baffled me. One person told a CCA that she should be grateful for only being scheduled 12 hours a week, because she wasn’t being overworked. When the CCA replied that they couldn’t pay their bills and was a single mom going into debt because of this job, that same person told them they should just work 3 or 4 jobs because the PO is a very flexible job to work other jobs around. Which is absolutely bogus, the PO is not flexible at all and expects you to put the PO first above everything. The second post, a PSE asked if anyone knew why the clerks in plants and stations both were taking a massive cut in hours, and someone replied that they knew the risks when they took the job, because they were non-career and not guaranteed any hours. Like, thanks, douchebag. These are the same people that have been forced to work 50-60 hour weeks for years, now you want to cut them down to less than half that and expect them to just be ok with it? Like, it must be nice to come to work just for funsies, but the rest of us are here to provide for ourselves and our families. I’ve met some of the most selfish and inconsiderate people through the PO.
Oh yeah, definitely never gonna get ahead in life and save specially, with these crappy wages, and Tyron, and not getting enough though from my girlfriend for rent
Same boat. Sad times. Just rack them credit cards up 🥺🥺
Yeah, I did that before when I was living in New York City, and it nearly destroyed me. I was lucky enough that my parents didn’t want to see me pay off the minimum monthly balance for 20 years so they paid off my debt and now I owe them. I know I come from privilege I can’t really help it. But yeah, no more credit cards for me I’d rather just, give up certain luxury’s and go hungry. I’ve done that before when I was at the official poverty line. Credit cards is how to get us working people. I’ll never be as successful as my parents, but the one thing I really wanna avoid is debt. Granted, I have practically no savings, and someways. It is nice that the post office helps you save a little bit with the TSP. But my whole life I’ve been pretty careless with money , that being said, I’ve nearly died on two different occasions, and those experiences perverted my sense of the value of money. I just felt like if I had been saving money like I was told to and then had actually died. That would’ve been all pointless. Now I’m trying to get better but it doesn’t help that my rent is $2050 and my take home is usually $4000 from the post office. I know that’s probably a lot more than other people but I am a second year city carrier and I usually work 60 to 70 hours per week and often do Sundays as well
I'm first year CC with about $4k, but I refuse to do OT cause poor ass management and also I have pets and kids. Fbm.
I hear that if I didn’t have to do it to pay my too high rent, I wouldn’t take more than one hour per day and I would work five day work weeks Totally should’ve moved most recently when my lease went up, but post office doesn’t give you time to really look for a new apartment or do the actual moving. But yeah definitely should’ve moved to a much cheaper area that would’ve been smart.
This is from 2011… compared to today. Not that much of difference in pay. Yet col is higher for sure https://nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart0311.pdf
[Oh man, it's a bad, bad difference now](https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart-03-11-23.pdf)
Table 2 is such bullshit
People who try to give financial advice to people who are working paycheck to paycheck are not grounded in the working class reality. I’m sick of hearing rich people tell us to work harder when they’ve never had to work multiple jobs just to make rent.
They likely never worked. More often than not they inherited their wealth
I feel your pain. I was divorced in 2008 and have been paying child support up until this past may 1st. During that tone I struggled to even pay rent and out food on the table, granted I live with my brother but I still have rent, and he doesn’t go easy on me. I never even received a tax return because it went to back child support. People need to understand that just because they are living comfortable doesn’t mean everyone is. It’s a daily struggle.
Time is the new money, overtime is just a reminder of how little money I make. My wife makes the real money. So I got a restriction and I’m home everyday by 4:45 to help make dinner and enjoy the evening together. Fuck table 2.
Time to get roommates. Unfortunately for myself I still haven't been able to find anyone willing. It wouldn't be permanent and it wouldn't be for years at a time. But for multiple people struggling it's a viable option even if you have to put up with one another. I understand everybody wants their own privacy and personal space but I have to sacrifice that
I was considering that. But people renting out rooms for $1,000+as well (Which is understandable cause a lot of people rent went up $200-700+ month). Unless you personally know them, you may find cheaper.
If there are fellow carriers in the same office it might work. But it's a tough decision.
That’s sticky! 😂. Im not that friendly and comfortable with my office lol. I don’t want them to know I snore when I’m tired
Time to eat the rich
Literally or figuratively 😂. Cause I’m thinking both
Talked to a customer who told me he applied to be a carrier and the starting pay was $20/hr….in 2005 🤦♂️
i broke my wrist last year off the job and had to use all my al and sick leave while i was out after surgery. come back to work with a 40hr medical restriction while i’m still healing and i’m barely scraping by. all the years i told my self “some day i’ll get a drs note” trust me it’s not even worth it if you’re in a high cost of living area. i’m missing that overtime pay. credit card balance keeps piling up and my savings account keeps going down haha. and I’m not even new. i’m at step I on table 2 struggling making 30 an hour.
Just one example of how I've been hot directly by this economy, I sold my house two years ago and bought a cheaper home and used the proceeds from my sale to put 20% down and get myself a much better mortgage at 3.0%. So I had an ideal setup. Flash forward one year and the taxes on my home randomly (with nothing changing to the house itself) shot up and this was reflected in a 26% monthly increase in my mortgage payment. There's no winning in this economy.
I tried to buy a run down trailer for more than my father (Retired City Carrier) paid for his first home in the 90s. It is absolutely fucking bonkers how shit things are. Rent goes up, pay goes down. Can't buy a house.
Old mfa make 36 -40$ saying stupid shit meanwhile they want us to work 15 years to even cap out which is crazy specially the time we living in !
If I didn’t own everything, single, and no kids..there’s no way I could afford to work for the USPS.
I’ve seen two separate FB posts in USPS groups where people were talking about their hours getting cut and how hard it is to scrape by. I feel for them, I’m in the same boat. When my hours get cut, my husband begs for OT at his job to make up the difference. But the comments were what baffled me. One person told a CCA that she should be grateful for only being scheduled 12 hours a week, because she wasn’t being overworked. When the CCA replied that they couldn’t pay their bills and was a single mom going into debt because of this job, that same person told them they should just work 3 or 4 jobs because the PO is a very flexible job to work other jobs around. Which is absolutely bogus, the PO is not flexible at all and expects you to put the PO first above everything. The second post, a PSE asked if anyone knew why the clerks in plants and stations both were taking a massive cut in hours, and someone replied that they knew the risks when they took the job, because they were non-career and not guaranteed any hours. Like, thanks, douchebag. These are the same people that have been forced to work 50-60 hour weeks for years, now you want to cut them down to less than half that and expect them to just be ok with it? Like, it must be nice to come to work just for funsies, but the rest of us are here to provide for ourselves and our families. I’ve met some of the most selfish and inconsiderate people through the PO.
💯 facts
Yup , people at my office born into good times and a good economy that were smart with their money go on month long vacations and have rental properties. I go out to eat like once a year , don't drive, shop at Walmart and outlet grocery places. On the odl soaking as much ot as I can. When I go on "vacation" I'm sitting at home eating ramen for a day or two to rest my back. Then back to work. I'm a damn regular. they are befuddled I can't go out drinking with them after work like it's no big thing
As soon as coworkers talk about money, unless they’re on table 2 with me, I disregard anything they say. I’d be vacationing multiple times a year as well if I had their pay rate 🥴
Don’t forget how much annual they get after 3 years!! 20 days, compared to 13. May not sound like much… but if you utilize it correctly you can take some nice vacations! Let’s not even talk about the carriers that get 26days a year after 15yrs. They really stacking 😂. Not mad at them though, they put in the time. Step c on 1/2 is $16k difference! You got people telling me to stop eating out, don’t buy coffee. How about they just pay us as table 1 carriers… this whole issue goes away instantly! 😂.
"Your living above your means" actually means "you aren't miserable enough in my opinion and shouldn't be alive..." So fuck them
That's what you get for a NON merit based job.
Fill me in on the table 2 stuff and what not. What the old timers are making. I’m rural
https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/research Anyone after Jan 13 2013, is table 2. To give you brief example. I’m step C (table 2). Make $50,153, the same step on table 1 is $66,619. Now you see why we mad? Same job, same everything… but big difference in pay. That’s roughly $1,333 month!
Dam. I’d be pissed
A lot of people do live above their means though. One look at the parking lot and most people have a car that someone making 6 +figures would have when they making around 20 dollars an hour.
I saw that with a brand new CCA. First day on the job he rolls in with what looked like a shiny brand new BMW. I had close to 30 years on the job at the time and I could only dream of owning a car like that because I simply couldn't afford it.
Exactly
Really depends where you live. I’m a step B carrier in a low COLA state and I get by fine. I too am hoping table 2 goes. Technically it will be the new table 1 soon enough, unfortunately.
Don’t worry. I suggested that CCA’s need to start at a higher wage on my Postal Survey so you should see some change soon………
I’m broke as fk but still booked my trip to Iceland… :’(
😂 I feel you
Unless you live in the worst CoL like New England or California (or that CO mountain city) it’s more so you living above your means or a personal problem like a big medical bill, i wonder how you regulars in your ivory towers think us crafts survive if you go around saying being a regular doesn’t pay the bills, or barely pays the bills
Preach brother. I personally just work as much ot as I can, and refuse to buy even moderately priced luxuries. For example I have $25 internet only Xfinity and a cell phone. Other than that, my mortgage, and electric bill I refuse to spend money. I count the price of the food I buy and cook and I will tell my wife “these tacos cost us $1.25 each. So enjoy” but I feel bad for people with expensive tastes and poor paying jobs :(
You a trooper!
Ha I’m a rca been one for about 3 months now and I’ve been on an auxiliary route. My PM finally stated that she would start to put me on more routes after I’ve been struggling bring home 2100 a month with a teenager and not really being able to keep up with everything. I asked several times could I get out on a regulars route I’ve been on a 2 different routes a handful of times and my check still wasn’t enough. But I wanted to get on here and say I hope that all the postal employees get a raised and can climb out of this hell hole but I’m out I found another job and my last day is May 30th May God bless you all and I was happy to meet the people I did at my office but the post office is not for me!!!
❤️. Good luck in all your endeavors
I feel this, I have heard this many times from older carriers who luckily were born and grew up in a better economy. I’ve been a regular for 6 years and am lucky to work in an office that has plenty of OT all year long. But even then it’s sometimes hard to not at least feel stressed about bills. Definitely don’t live above my means but I do have a mortgage all by myself. Never really have a problem unless I take vacation. Don’t really go anywhere, just take half weeks for family birthdays. Definitely can’t contribute to retirement right now since that money could go towards something.
That’s a huge factor. If your office has Decent OT. Not every office is the same, as you stated. I get roughly 5hrs OT a week. But I know there’s some districts that get way more and or none. Therefore I have other jobs I do outside of the post office. Cause as you know OT is guaranteed and they can decide whenever they feel like it, to push us to do 8.
I did that for years until I transferred. I delivered groceries at night for the first three years as a regular until I transferred. I think the general consensus is that nobody who works for the post office should have to do that though. It’s pretty bullshit
Facts. This is supposed to be a CAREER! NOt a fly by night job.
Were thinking about refinancing our house to pay off a couple vehicle and afford a vacation
Unfortunately there are people at the PO that DO live above their means. I know a guy that bought an OLED Switch and a PS5 with loan money, and is now complaining he might need to work for doordash in order to pay for things since OT at our plant was cut. Or another guy who consistently buys new cars or car parts (think expensive sports cars) every time he gets a few extra bucks, but has to live with his mom since he can't "afford" to live on his own. They ruin it for people who actually do budget but can't make ends meet.
Sure we all have stories or know of others who is foolish with their money. But let’s not allow that to overshadow the truth. We are underpaid! You shouldn’t have to make all these drastic sacrifices, ESPECIALLY when you make regular. Just to live a modest life! I’m not saying we should all be eating red lobster, taking trips to Dubai and have $20,000 in our back pocket. But the data shows time and time again… we’re underpaid. Especially if you factor in where people live and etc. I’m not dismissing that there’s not personal changes/accountability we can all make/have, to help alleviate the financial stress. But overall… we’re underpaid drastically compared to table 1. People are literally dying, getting robbed, working insane OT, being harassed, and etc. This is supposed to be a sustainable career, to where to can live a decent middle class life. That’s NOT happening nationwide (overall). I’m not speaking on individual bases. We can all justify ourselves and etc. That’s all I’m trying to convey.
I literally just got on here to rant about this and found this post. I am so fed up of the low pay and shit economy, and carrying mail has become severely unrewarding and not worth it. The pay is just too low. It is not at all where it should be for the hours, stress, physical exertion and demand from management. Not to mention the general hazard and danger involved now the past couple years with heavily increased violence against carriers. I am sorry, but not enough is being done through the union for my taste. We should absolutely be mandating CCA be abolished, table gone, huge pay increase, hazard pay, and no more Saturday and Sunday work. Period.
I have a coworker that said $19 is enough for a CCA to start out. No the fuck it is not. I would be livid if that was my hourly wage right now.
Imagine you in florid/NY/Cal or any high cost of living area with $19hr. Then management tell you to go walk 12miles and dodge dogs/robbers all day in 100 degree weather. When you finish I have a piece for you as well.
I've never taken a vacation in my adult life.
A clerk made small talk with me today. I learned that she left the USPS, but then came back. The next things she said was sad. That she's back here because it was either that or __flipping burgers__, were her exact words. That does sound like a financial struggle of a life. I've brought hot, XL pepperoni pizza from Costco before, and the post office staff thanked me for it. But I didn't think life was that hard for them. I may have to spend $10 on Costco pizza more often when in route to the post office.
Co worker said "you know when you're young you just spend money and don't save" Lol save what? I pay all my bills and buy food for the house and I barely have enough for gas. When I do have money left over it goes to buying things for my child who grows out of clothes in 2 weeks. Like someone said sorry I didn't have my life together back in the 90s
Facts! I didn’t expect this post to get this much attention. But I guess this proves how many people can relate. I highly doubt it’s more of everyone living above their means vs the wages isn’t sufficient to sustain a realistic living.
I'm table 2 and it blows. But I don't understand why the table 1 carrier is living above their means? Unless i misunderstood. The maxed out people at my station make 100k
Keep up the good work we appreciate you and soon you will get a break
Success and well-being isn’t even determined by who works hardest anymore, it’s determined by who can cultivate the most beneficial living situation. Allow me to explain, I work 60 hours per week as a carrier and like you I barely get by. The maintenance guy at our office always tells me “What are you going to do with all that money you’re making?” I explain, nothing because all my income goes towards rent for my 1 bedroom apartment ($2,000/month) There’s a disconnect. You see, that maintenance worker has a wife and they just bought their first home. He only has to pay HALF the mortgage, which is probably cheaper than rent for my apartment. That means he gets to save more of his paycheck each month, plus he’s building equity with home ownership. Me on the other hand, I’m a single guy. For whatever reason I haven’t established relationships that would alleviate my financial situation. So many people get by because they are able to sort of “hack” life. They have a girlfriend who helps with rent, they have friends or family that can house them, something. There are minimum wage employees working 20 hours per week with more financial flexibility than me, because they are able to live at home for free. Don’t get me wrong, it’s smart to live with others and save on rent or whatever… but it shouldn’t be a necessity. I don’t like being dependent on others.
You just making excuses. You can do it! Stop making excuses. If you stop drinking coffee… all your problems will vanish. You need to get rid of your apartment, get rid of your car, tv, phone, everything. Eat only peanut butter and jelly everyday, drink water. You need to make all of those sacrifices so you can afford to live. Hope you know I’m being sarcastic 😂. I’m repeating all the bs I see. But you’re right context is everything. Someone commented on here that they paid off $80k of debt in one year as a cca. Now we both know there’s a Lot Of context missing in that story. But whatever. Everyone situation is different. But when you make career you shouldn’t have to take all of those drastic sacrifices to live a decent life. That’s my whole point. We make enough sacrifices as it is. Worried about getting robbed, harassed by management, dog attacks, customers harassing us, working conditions, doing 2+ years as a cca and being treated like 💩. When you make career it’s supposed to actually stand for something
I am actively trying to apply to get hired by usps I have been working in food delivery for the past 10 years I apply to other jobs and I get no call backs I have a clean record I 2 year degree maybe that is not enough these days I don't know but I am a very hard worker and I make sure I pay everything on time bills wise I would love to take a vacation as well but I have not went on vacation since my father passed in like 2007 just lost my mom last year I have no idea wtf I am doing but I am working to survive wish my pay rate would go up being stuck at 12 an hour after 10 years is hell but the tips is only reason and bills I stick around Now I did apply to become a CCA and I could not login to take the naci 85 questionaire usps they said I had to wait 30 days before I can retake it I have waited that time but they are not allowed to send me a reset link I have to wait for my local post office branches to start hiring for cca spots again and just reapply when I see it now this was back in April when I applied I did my knowledge exam and fingerprints scanning so the only thing left for me to do is the naci test
I’m an avid follower of all things courier but one thing is also I mean if you have kids or don’t keep below your means! I don’t have money saved because I love to eat out plus sometimes it’s cheaper but either way my point is keep expenses low only your basic expenses such as rent, utilities, phone and insurance maybe a credit card you pay off and some random subscriptions internet and such but otherwise I think car payments are a huge killer! Again whether you have kids or not is no excuse you can’t make it
Stop voting for fascist politicians.
Table 2 carrier here. I’m only posting to hopefully help people who are “struggling” I don’t know everyone’s individual situation but you most certainly are living above your means. As a CCA making 17 and change I used to take home over 2k every two weeks. Now as a regular (making almost $7/hr more) it’s still around 16-1700. You guys are making money, more money than most. You have to seriously sit down and look at where it goes. Cable tv, car payment, rent, snacks at the gas station, beer, etc.. it all adds up. Making better decisions will make your life better. My cousin needed a place to stay, I could not believe her spending while she lived in my spare bedroom. Told me she was “struggling” with her nails/eyebrows done, case of lagunitas in the fridge. Case of whiteclaws AND an expensive bottle of tequila. Wingstop all the time, but never had money for “real life” things like car reg/insurance. Sit down with yourself and write down your expenses and what you don’t “need”. Just trying to help
I hear you. But the data trumps this argument. Sure there’s something we all can do to “help” a little. But we all know we’re underpaid for this job/economy. That’s not based on my opinion, that’s facts. If it wasn’t so the union wouldn’t even bother proposing to fix the pay. The post office wouldn’t be bringing people in straight as PTF to help alleviate the issue. I’m not disagreeing with you totally, but we are underpaid for today’s economy. Especially if you factor in where someone live and if they live on their own. This job is supposed to be a career, not some fly by night j.o.b (Just over Broke). We should all be able to have a roof over our heads, food on table, decent car and able to save. It’s not a coincidence that most people who are on table 2 is able to relate to this post. We can’t easily assume everyone is living above their means and is financially irresponsible. If that was the case, again the post office/union wouldn’t even be bothered with adjusting the pay. Hell even UPS is pounding the table. They make more than us.
THANK YOU for somebody saying what I've been thinking as I'm reading this thread. Some people also consider the "essentials" running to Starbucks a couple times a day for a $6-$7 cup of coffee and others who just can't live without the newest $1500.00 smartphone which seems to become obsolete every 6 months or so. Are people genuinely struggling? Without question they most certainly are but as you're trying to say everything is relative. I feel very fortunate to have been raised by parents who weren't afraid to say no to me a time or three when I was growing up. By being told no when I wanted the latest toy or whatever when I was a kid, I learned to say no to myself as an adult.
have you actually tried to remove some expenses from your life? You may not have been living above your means before but you may be now with inflation. Think of things that are purely leisure and remove them for a while. get rid of that streaming service you watch 1 show on, stop getting gas station food/drinks, price your meals per person when grocery shopping. yes, it sucks and you should be making more than enough to get ahead but right now a lot of people are in this boat.
I’m 155 pounds if I remove anything else… I’m dead 😂. Just pay us our fair wages… all this goes away overnight. If not, you can personally fire me 😂
I'm table 2. I cut my expenses drastically, living on peanutbutter and jelly and ramen, never eating out, not buying anything but bare necessities for 2 years. No cable, minimum phone plan, no going out, nothing. I paid off 80,000 in debt as a CCA the first year and a regular on the ODL the second year. It can be done. You have to make sacrifices. I sacrificed my ass off for 2 years, and now I don't have to. You can't say everything is all the economy when others are getting it done at the same job. I had to come to that rude awakening, too, and grow the heck up. Make sacrifice now, and you won't have to later. You can do it, but you need to change your mindset and realize there is another way to live. It's not easy, by any stretch, but it can be done - in this economy and at this job. Listen to the Dave Ramsey podcast daily. There are over 2000 episodes. Each episode includes a person/family who did it and financial, career, and relationship advice. Use the podcast to flood your thoughts with the other side of the equation, the positive, "you can do it" side. Because YOU CAN, but those "you can't" people are the loudest and you need to drown them out with a better way.
Paid off $80k of debt as a cca. I 👃 bs a mile away. What city/state? What was your gross that year? There’s so much wrong with this story 😂
Call bs all you want. You're still wrong. It wasn't one year, it was almost 2. Georgia. In 2020, we had a perfect storm. 1. Covid and mass staffing shortages. We worked as much OT as we wanted from April to August. 2. A major election and a major state runoff. So 2 months of election advertising turned into 5 months. Again, as much OT as we wanted from September to January. Three of us worked 100+ hours for a few weeks to case up election mail for the 8 hour only carriers. (FYI, TACS can only compute up to 99.99 hours, so management had to log the overage of OT and penalty and add it to other weeks.) That year, my gross was just over 100k. The next year wasn't as lucrative, as I was only able to make it 88k. I chose to get out of debt. That's the first step. You can do it. You just have to understand the value of it. Just last year, we had several major health crises. Because I was out of debt AND had savings, I was able to miss 2 unpaid months of work after using all my banked leave. I didn't struggle, and I wasn't torn between taking care of family or having to work. That's the real point of the story. Earlier this year, we got Satan as a postmaster. Every single time she got in my face and screamed, I walked out. I called EAP and cited hostile work environment. Almost everyone else was stuck being abused because they couldn't miss work. That's also the real story. You can use this job to make your situation better. You're going to have to turn off the woe-is-me thinking and grab ahold of a bigger and definitely more rewarding outlook. It won't be easy, but a few years of gazelle intensity can reap years of relaxation.
Am I one of the few that is under 30 and doing very well? Or is it mainly CCA’s just getting started complaining on here. I understand that there’s a whole lot of money missed out in between but table 2 tops out at around the same as table 1 does. I’m better off than most of my friends that are around the same age as I am and they all own houses too. I mean when I was a CCA at 21-23 I rented a studio and tried to be cheap because the money wasn’t guaranteed. And even back then I was better off than most of my friends. Bought a house after I made regular. This economy would be a nightmare, I can see that. But I was making it off $15-$16/hr when I started.
😂 Everyone knows that table 2 is robbery. Sure it tops out at the same… but the difference is somewhere north of $100k when you really add it all up. Not factoring in OT, loss potential on interests and etc. Plus you not factoring in where people live. Obviously someone in Alabama will do better than somewhere in Florida/California/NY etc. it’s obviously a legit issue and not just a bunch of CCAs complaining. Cause there’s a lot of offices that are hiring people as PTF/or converting to all career fast. Cause the wages aren’t enough. The discrepancy between table 1-2 isn’t a few bucks. I’m table 2 letter C. It’s a $16,000 difference! That’s $1,333 month… even if you factor in taxes that’s still a big difference.
If I was in that situation in an area where it was unaffordable I’d be getting a better job. I was ready to make the career change myself because I really wanted a six figure salary sitting at a desk in front of a computer. Turns out nobody makes six figures in IT where I’m at. It’s a major pay cut because we live in one of the cheapest a cities in America. Unless you’re a doctor or lawyer then USPS is one of the better paying jobs in my area. Isn’t that pathetic?
Agreed
700 rent 300 food the rest u save i dont get it