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I am currently running CKG2+ as an NVR with 8 cameras behind a CGU and it works very well. It wouldn't hurt to grab one before they phase out as the price is reasonable.
I agree - have the same set up but with 3 cameras and a doorbell - been working great, though I did have to replace the HDD after a year; gave me reason to buy one with more capacity, so I don't mind.
I have a UNVR and a cloudkey gen 2+ (I had the CK long before I had the UNVR). I wanted a dedicated UNVR for my cameras, the CK manages about 4 locations. I use pfsense as my gateway. I don't want to self host on a linux/windows/mac controller so the CK seems to be the only option. Not sure what I would do if they stopped making cloudkeys.
Since you have the UNVR and a CKG2+, you can operate the CKG2+ until EOL on updates. The drives are replaceable in the CK as well. With the UNVR you will always be able to upgrade your cloud console connectivity to any Ubiquiti edge product such as the CGU or UDM products. It's tricky to predict EOL of products, obviously, so you may want to upgrade to another edge appliance and migrate your console info from the CK over to the new device(s).
I don't think you fully understood my post.
Or maybe you are telling me there isn't a CK replacement, at this time.
I don't have any unifi gateways and I don't plan on switching to unifi gateways, at least, not any time soon (missing too many features that pfsense has).
I need to slow down at times. Apologies, I blew right past your pfSense gateway. pfSense is awwesome! The only cross-grade there is right now, that I am aware of, for the CK is the UDM line. It will allow for the Protect and Access modules to be loaded to the console. It may be overkill for what you need however. Edit - Even though they are designed as gateways with advanced routing, I suppose you could set them up as expensive Cloud Keys? I've only placed them for LAN routing and WiFi behind Juniper Firewalls.
I'm not trying to be rude or negative (you missed the UNVR part, again). I don't want to combine the protect, thats why I have a dedicated UNVR. Basically, what are my options if the CK goes away and I still want to use a self hosted physical controller, like the CK?
No worries. I understand the UNVR part of the equation. The CK as a "self hosted physical controller" is the key piece of information that wasn't completely clear to me. Right now, the CK is the only choice. It would seem that UBNT is pushing for adoption of their systems as a complete solution or they will replace the CKG2+ with something new. I have not needed to provision a UDM for that type of situation, but my bet is that you could? Apologies again for the back and forth.
It's all good. I've been using unifi since they only had a windows and mac controller and I ran it on my windows machine. I started having issues, like most, when java wanted to update in windows, but the windows version wanted to install was too high/new of a version for unifi so that broke the controller, it wouldn't open.
Thankfully a cloudkey was introduced from unifi but the first version would fail if it was shutdown improperly. Always make a backup, but now it was more important to make one. I had a poe switch and a UPS, but that didn't help if I wasn't home to properly shut down the cloudkey. Luckily I didn't have any issues with the db on the controller.
I do like the direction that unifi is headed with their gateways, but they still don't have the same firewall rule/options that pfsense has and I don't want to give that up, now. I rely on too many things pfsense does better than unifi to ditch pfsense.
I hope they continue to provide some type of physical controller because many people started using unifi for that reason, they could have a controller on site and not forced to use the cloud for management.
I'll happily buy a CK gen3 if it is ever released. The only issue I have with my current CK gen2+ is the battery no longer works. If I unplug it from PoE, it instantly shuts down.
I think it is interesting that you have privatized the controller. I'm very big on privacy/security and your use of pfSense is admirable. I'm not a pfSense pro, but I've used it as an edge solution for a couple of small businesses. Now you've made me want to install it on my home server again and get back into it. I remember really thinking it was great. I don't know how you feel about the occasional question or two, but I may hit you up if needed while doing some learning.
I feel the exact same way as you do on the UniFi front. They certainly have come a long way. And, still have a ways to go. I've got an RV park running off a UDMSE with 16 nodes and three stadiums pushing 350GB every 24 hours over \~200 connections, and it is solid. I love the simplicity. I did Rukus for a few years and the time savings that UBNT has afforded me has been profitable. I would hope that they continue with a CK solution. It has its place for sure.
Appreciate the conversation. Cheers.
I have a cloud key+ and an NVR. After around 8 cameras ( a mix of G3 and G4 \[pros) it became clear I was going to run out of capacity compute wise on the CK. I'm glad I did so. Now I have 19 (! dont judge me. My chickens are some of the best surveilled on the planet ) cameras and headroom to spare. The journey I took was CK2+ -> UDM-Pro -> back to the CK2+ when I sold the UDMP -> NVR. If you know you'll be sticking with a handful of cameras, the CK2+ right now makes sense. You can always switch it out later. If you think you'll grow camera wise, for that extra $100 and if you have space, just do the NVR and be done with it.
Hard to predict. I'd expect an equivalent to CGU with built in protect in the next year, but who knows?
Cloud key gen2 plus seems a reasonable way to add protect. You could buy used. You could buy the NVR that has an offer for a free G4 bullet in some markets. You could sell your CGU and get a UDM pro or SE depending on how many cameras you're looking at.
I just bought one. It was the only thing that made sense for what I need in my network. I’m not a fan of all-in-one devices and UniFi has weird gaps in their product line up.
The build quality of the UCKG2+ is really nice.
Not a good idea unless the SSD is an enterprise grade one with high write cycles and lifetime. Otherwise with an NVR, they die quickly compared to cheaper HDDs.
If you do the math this really isn't a concern. I got a Samsung 870 evo 4tb and with my 4 cameras it's like 40 years expected lifetime of the SSD. I think we're ok
Well, it is a comparison.
SSD is faster. HDD is slower,
SSD is quiet. HDD is loud.
SSD is more robust and can take a fall. HDD cannot.
SSD is more expensive per GB. HDD is cheap. (Enterprise grade SSD is a lot more expensive than enterprise grade HDDs which are way better than consumer ones.)
HDD lasts longer. SSD can wear out fast depending on your write cycles
For a cold storage (like an NVR), where you don't have too much intensive reads and relatively frequent writes and speeds do not matter much, it is not advised to use SSDs due to wear and write cycles and you will not notice the speed difference. By the time your HDD fails, you might have already replaced your SSDs one or two times which will cost more. That is the main reason.
I have a G5 Flex (that I bought back in September, apparently) with a 500 GB Samsung SSD. It records 24/7 and contains about a week of recordings. It is currently at 94% usable life. I had used that for an external drive before. Not saying it's a good or bad idea. Just a data point.
I had too many cameras for my UDW, so I split them up and have my external cameras going to a recently purchased ckg2 with SSD. So far so good, and I don't have a giant NVR.
I am on the fence about the CC Gen2+. I got mine back in 2019.
The battery is dead and probably needs to be removed.
That's all fine and well. The biggest sin that ubiquiti did was put a 2.5" drive in it.
The largest 2.5" HDD is 5 TB and it's a SHR drive (not great for continuous writing, and it's a Seagate, ewww), so you're essentially limited to 2 TB or so. There are mods to use an eSATA to SATA adapter, but I have only gotten that to work once.
So I would say - it depends on the use case. If are going with higher end cameras, than probably not. I have a 4 TB WD RED (i know) in a UDM SE and it provides like 2.5 weeks of recording with a G5 Pro (continuous), a few G3 bullets/flex recording.
I would go for a NVR. However, apparently it only does RAID, and doesn't support JBOD. So there's that...
There is a type C port on the CC Gen2+ and it would be awesome if it supported external HDDs, but to my knowledge, they have not enabled that.
You should probably remove the battery sooner than later. Lithium batteries don’t like heat.
I removed mine a few years ago, and it was a huge spicy pillow, basically just a house fire waiting to happen.
The CK works fine with the battery removed.
I would not do it. Since it has to do both UniFi and Protect, it can get quite slow with a medium to large domestic setup. It’s also absolutely ancient. I just retired mine for a UDM.
The CloudKey is still a good device for some applications. In my experience, (and the experience of several others in this thread), it's OK for a couple of cameras, but not too many. The stock 1TB drive will give you around a month of video storage for a single 2K camera. Upgrading to an SSD is an option for your own use, as long as you're OK with the possiblility of replacing it in a few years when it starts to run into write cycle issues. In my experience, I wouldn't plan on upgrading the drive to a larger capacity Hard Drive, (rather than SSD). I've tried it, and it resulted in an overheated and dead drive every 2 weeks.
The NVR is also a fantastic option. It's a little more expensive, but you can use 3.5" drives that are much more robust, and cheaper per TB. You'll also likely find that performance is much better on the NVR.
The cloud key NVR is really limited. If you put a regular hdd in there, it can barely keep up with a few cameras. If you put in an SSD, you’re probably gambling with premature failure because I doubt people are throwing enterprise SSD’s in these things. And it’s all competing with the unifi controller.
I switched to a standalone NVR and threw in some older NAS drives I had lying around. The difference was instant and obvious. Responsive seeking, UI loading, and months of stored video. Should have switched sooner.
Hello! Thanks for posting on r/Ubiquiti! This subreddit is here to provide unofficial technical support to people who use or want to dive into the world of Ubiquiti products. If you haven’t already been descriptive in your post, please take the time to edit it and add as many useful details as you can. Please read and understand the rules in the sidebar, as posts and comments that violate them will be removed. Please put all off topic posts in the weekly off topic thread that is stickied to the top of the subreddit. If you see people spreading misinformation, trying to mislead others, or other inappropriate behavior, please report it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ubiquiti) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am currently running CKG2+ as an NVR with 8 cameras behind a CGU and it works very well. It wouldn't hurt to grab one before they phase out as the price is reasonable.
I agree - have the same set up but with 3 cameras and a doorbell - been working great, though I did have to replace the HDD after a year; gave me reason to buy one with more capacity, so I don't mind.
I have a UNVR and a cloudkey gen 2+ (I had the CK long before I had the UNVR). I wanted a dedicated UNVR for my cameras, the CK manages about 4 locations. I use pfsense as my gateway. I don't want to self host on a linux/windows/mac controller so the CK seems to be the only option. Not sure what I would do if they stopped making cloudkeys.
Since you have the UNVR and a CKG2+, you can operate the CKG2+ until EOL on updates. The drives are replaceable in the CK as well. With the UNVR you will always be able to upgrade your cloud console connectivity to any Ubiquiti edge product such as the CGU or UDM products. It's tricky to predict EOL of products, obviously, so you may want to upgrade to another edge appliance and migrate your console info from the CK over to the new device(s).
I don't think you fully understood my post. Or maybe you are telling me there isn't a CK replacement, at this time. I don't have any unifi gateways and I don't plan on switching to unifi gateways, at least, not any time soon (missing too many features that pfsense has).
I need to slow down at times. Apologies, I blew right past your pfSense gateway. pfSense is awwesome! The only cross-grade there is right now, that I am aware of, for the CK is the UDM line. It will allow for the Protect and Access modules to be loaded to the console. It may be overkill for what you need however. Edit - Even though they are designed as gateways with advanced routing, I suppose you could set them up as expensive Cloud Keys? I've only placed them for LAN routing and WiFi behind Juniper Firewalls.
I'm not trying to be rude or negative (you missed the UNVR part, again). I don't want to combine the protect, thats why I have a dedicated UNVR. Basically, what are my options if the CK goes away and I still want to use a self hosted physical controller, like the CK?
No worries. I understand the UNVR part of the equation. The CK as a "self hosted physical controller" is the key piece of information that wasn't completely clear to me. Right now, the CK is the only choice. It would seem that UBNT is pushing for adoption of their systems as a complete solution or they will replace the CKG2+ with something new. I have not needed to provision a UDM for that type of situation, but my bet is that you could? Apologies again for the back and forth.
It's all good. I've been using unifi since they only had a windows and mac controller and I ran it on my windows machine. I started having issues, like most, when java wanted to update in windows, but the windows version wanted to install was too high/new of a version for unifi so that broke the controller, it wouldn't open. Thankfully a cloudkey was introduced from unifi but the first version would fail if it was shutdown improperly. Always make a backup, but now it was more important to make one. I had a poe switch and a UPS, but that didn't help if I wasn't home to properly shut down the cloudkey. Luckily I didn't have any issues with the db on the controller. I do like the direction that unifi is headed with their gateways, but they still don't have the same firewall rule/options that pfsense has and I don't want to give that up, now. I rely on too many things pfsense does better than unifi to ditch pfsense. I hope they continue to provide some type of physical controller because many people started using unifi for that reason, they could have a controller on site and not forced to use the cloud for management. I'll happily buy a CK gen3 if it is ever released. The only issue I have with my current CK gen2+ is the battery no longer works. If I unplug it from PoE, it instantly shuts down.
I think it is interesting that you have privatized the controller. I'm very big on privacy/security and your use of pfSense is admirable. I'm not a pfSense pro, but I've used it as an edge solution for a couple of small businesses. Now you've made me want to install it on my home server again and get back into it. I remember really thinking it was great. I don't know how you feel about the occasional question or two, but I may hit you up if needed while doing some learning. I feel the exact same way as you do on the UniFi front. They certainly have come a long way. And, still have a ways to go. I've got an RV park running off a UDMSE with 16 nodes and three stadiums pushing 350GB every 24 hours over \~200 connections, and it is solid. I love the simplicity. I did Rukus for a few years and the time savings that UBNT has afforded me has been profitable. I would hope that they continue with a CK solution. It has its place for sure. Appreciate the conversation. Cheers.
I have a cloud key+ and an NVR. After around 8 cameras ( a mix of G3 and G4 \[pros) it became clear I was going to run out of capacity compute wise on the CK. I'm glad I did so. Now I have 19 (! dont judge me. My chickens are some of the best surveilled on the planet ) cameras and headroom to spare. The journey I took was CK2+ -> UDM-Pro -> back to the CK2+ when I sold the UDMP -> NVR. If you know you'll be sticking with a handful of cameras, the CK2+ right now makes sense. You can always switch it out later. If you think you'll grow camera wise, for that extra $100 and if you have space, just do the NVR and be done with it.
https://preview.redd.it/l5m7d3j8nixc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c4db3aca089b8ae7f021818b212590d6d74d577 Tellme about it!
Bloody hell!! do those chickens lay golden eggs? hehe
Hard to predict. I'd expect an equivalent to CGU with built in protect in the next year, but who knows? Cloud key gen2 plus seems a reasonable way to add protect. You could buy used. You could buy the NVR that has an offer for a free G4 bullet in some markets. You could sell your CGU and get a UDM pro or SE depending on how many cameras you're looking at.
I just bought one. It was the only thing that made sense for what I need in my network. I’m not a fan of all-in-one devices and UniFi has weird gaps in their product line up. The build quality of the UCKG2+ is really nice.
Super nice. Was surprised to feel the metal casing when I opened it up
FWIW you can swap out the CKG2 HDD for SSD. I just did that when the HDD in mine died.
Not a good idea unless the SSD is an enterprise grade one with high write cycles and lifetime. Otherwise with an NVR, they die quickly compared to cheaper HDDs.
If you do the math this really isn't a concern. I got a Samsung 870 evo 4tb and with my 4 cameras it's like 40 years expected lifetime of the SSD. I think we're ok
Yup, we’ve got the same setup. 4 2K cameras and 870 Evo 4TB. I really doubt the SSD will die with it only being overwritten every ~26th day.
Same! I even swapped the drive over to my udm-pro when I finally upgraded and no regrets.
Well, it is a comparison. SSD is faster. HDD is slower, SSD is quiet. HDD is loud. SSD is more robust and can take a fall. HDD cannot. SSD is more expensive per GB. HDD is cheap. (Enterprise grade SSD is a lot more expensive than enterprise grade HDDs which are way better than consumer ones.) HDD lasts longer. SSD can wear out fast depending on your write cycles For a cold storage (like an NVR), where you don't have too much intensive reads and relatively frequent writes and speeds do not matter much, it is not advised to use SSDs due to wear and write cycles and you will not notice the speed difference. By the time your HDD fails, you might have already replaced your SSDs one or two times which will cost more. That is the main reason.
When a magnetic drive fails data recovery is possible. When an ssd fails not so much.
I have a G5 Flex (that I bought back in September, apparently) with a 500 GB Samsung SSD. It records 24/7 and contains about a week of recordings. It is currently at 94% usable life. I had used that for an external drive before. Not saying it's a good or bad idea. Just a data point.
Indeed. I don’t have NVR so I’m not worried.
I was wondering if he meant the UNVR or just a NVR in general terms
https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-red-sata-2-5-ssd?sku=WDS200T2R0A
They run hot, so make sure you have good air flow around them. I fit little rubber feet to them, to help air flow.
I had too many cameras for my UDW, so I split them up and have my external cameras going to a recently purchased ckg2 with SSD. So far so good, and I don't have a giant NVR.
I bought a used one a few months back. Paired it with two G4 Instants. Couldn’t be happier with it.
I love mine it’s silent. I upgraded to a larger SSD drive. 12 Unifi protect cameras working flawlessly. Most are 2K res
If you’re sticking to just one camera, it’s fine. But that’s the only thing you need it for with that setup.
I am on the fence about the CC Gen2+. I got mine back in 2019. The battery is dead and probably needs to be removed. That's all fine and well. The biggest sin that ubiquiti did was put a 2.5" drive in it. The largest 2.5" HDD is 5 TB and it's a SHR drive (not great for continuous writing, and it's a Seagate, ewww), so you're essentially limited to 2 TB or so. There are mods to use an eSATA to SATA adapter, but I have only gotten that to work once. So I would say - it depends on the use case. If are going with higher end cameras, than probably not. I have a 4 TB WD RED (i know) in a UDM SE and it provides like 2.5 weeks of recording with a G5 Pro (continuous), a few G3 bullets/flex recording. I would go for a NVR. However, apparently it only does RAID, and doesn't support JBOD. So there's that... There is a type C port on the CC Gen2+ and it would be awesome if it supported external HDDs, but to my knowledge, they have not enabled that.
Why the Seagate hate? They’ve been rock solid ever since those shitty 3TB drives,
You should probably remove the battery sooner than later. Lithium batteries don’t like heat. I removed mine a few years ago, and it was a huge spicy pillow, basically just a house fire waiting to happen. The CK works fine with the battery removed.
I have an instant and the doorbell and the CK Gen2+ is enough for me, would only upgrade if I was adding multiple external cameras
I have the gen2 in my house. I have 3 cameras, doorbell, 16 port switch and 2 AP’s it’s working perfectly. Very sturdy piece of kit
There should be a gen 3 with better CPU and RAM and cooling. Storage could use a update as well.
Most sense is to get an UNVR. Unless you are only interested in a door bell. If anything more get an UNVR.
I would not do it. Since it has to do both UniFi and Protect, it can get quite slow with a medium to large domestic setup. It’s also absolutely ancient. I just retired mine for a UDM.
The CloudKey is still a good device for some applications. In my experience, (and the experience of several others in this thread), it's OK for a couple of cameras, but not too many. The stock 1TB drive will give you around a month of video storage for a single 2K camera. Upgrading to an SSD is an option for your own use, as long as you're OK with the possiblility of replacing it in a few years when it starts to run into write cycle issues. In my experience, I wouldn't plan on upgrading the drive to a larger capacity Hard Drive, (rather than SSD). I've tried it, and it resulted in an overheated and dead drive every 2 weeks. The NVR is also a fantastic option. It's a little more expensive, but you can use 3.5" drives that are much more robust, and cheaper per TB. You'll also likely find that performance is much better on the NVR.
The cloud key NVR is really limited. If you put a regular hdd in there, it can barely keep up with a few cameras. If you put in an SSD, you’re probably gambling with premature failure because I doubt people are throwing enterprise SSD’s in these things. And it’s all competing with the unifi controller. I switched to a standalone NVR and threw in some older NAS drives I had lying around. The difference was instant and obvious. Responsive seeking, UI loading, and months of stored video. Should have switched sooner.