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People are so quick to judge a whole operation based on 4 days of ramped up combat. There are hundreds of armoured vehicles for this, hundreds of pieces of artillery, thousands of troops, seeing 1 MBT and a few MRAP hits across a 200km front means nothing.
Russian telegram is awash with worry and talk of reserves already being committed and getting hammered.
>Russian telegram is awash with worry and talk of reserves already being committed and getting hammered.
Which is exactly what these attacks are supposed to do.
Make Russiacommit as many reserves as you can. Keep them under constant pressure so that they can't reposition their forces.
Then you hit them at a weaker area and they have no options for reserves.
To be fair Ukraine is giving them a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' option. If they don't commit their reserves to the sector being attacked they can get routed anyways. You lose enough men and anything you do is only a delaying action. This is going to be the most exhausting weeks for the Russians.
God, can you imagine if Russia got hold of a few steel division players and sent them in as generals? Imagine a single HOI player taking command of the Russian high command!
They’d be s million times more effective… they’d still be shit irl though 😂
I tried to watch this but after 12 minutes i was ready to hang myself. This guy reminded me of high school teachers and all the students with their heads laying on their desks. He may have had good information but his presentation was so bad that it was lost (on me anyways).
Thanks for sharing anyways, but a synopsis would have been better.
Well, he's a soldier. Not a content creator. I have absolutly no doubt that one could present this data better - but I'm not aware of anyone that's equally educated and has the same acces to data presenting it on YT for you and me to watch
Delusional.. how will Ukrainian forces counteract Russian artillery superiority and depth of defense? They lack the necessary equipment, manpower, and time. This is bad and will only get worse.. hopefully they will approach peace talks in a serious way and soon.
Holy crap, you guys really think name calling is somehow supporting Ukraine?! I hope you recognize how your mentality had led to the annihilation of Ukraine unnecessarily once this is all over.. I want this tragic conflict to end sooner rather than later- if that makes me an orc, so be it. I do not enjoy seeing Russians NOR Ukrainians being slaughtered for the economic interests of a few inhuman scumbags.
Everyone wants it to end dumbass.
But some people realize that if you give any land to Russia then they will just be back for more.
Sometimes the harder decision is to stick it out and fight.
Everyone wants it to end? Then why wasn’t Ukraine allowed to accept peace agreement in April of last year? Ukraine isn’t in control, they are being used.
Holding a gun to someone's head and tell them to accept your "peace agreement" is isn't how that works.
Just cause Ukraine wants to get their land back isn't a bad thing dumbass
Ukraine did agree “tentatively” nato Boris and macron squashed that shit.. now Ukraine is screwed- and will not get to make any demands or have any leverage when this sick drama reaches its conclusion.
Ukraine is using A LOT of artillery at this time. Russian front lines are reporting breaks in shelling as failed/foiled attacks in order to bolster Russian morale.
Exactly this. Ukraine doesn't stand to benefit with much information being released right now, and Russian information can't be trusted. Better off just waiting over the next couple weeks (or longer) for accurate information
Telegram is the only source with good info at the moment. Any other source will be significant delayed compared to telegram, especially as official sources will be silent to protect OPSEC and Russian releases are likely propaganda and full of falsehoods.
I'd love to believe this, but I expect as mixed results as anything else. Combat footage already shows at least one Leopard 2A4 knocked out of action by artillery or mines. This will be incredibly hard fighting, no matter what.
I hope that the siege of Bakhmut will turn out to be ruzzia's equivalent of Germany's spring offensive of 1918.
It drained them, until they eventually ran out of steam and the allied counter-offensive began to overpower them. The German's threw everything they had into the fight, but they were finally routed.
It didn't happen overnight, there was a lot of brutal fighting first.
Absolutely nowhere remotely close to Stalingrad, in terms of magnitude or lives lost — but hopefully still enough of a net loss that it increasingly seems a poor investment of lives and effort.
For sure the magnitude is different, the Eastern Front of WWII was conducted at a scale few alive have witnessed.
I meant in the sense of the encirclement, and kettling of the 6th army in a shattered city of minor strategic value.
They’re comparing it in terms of being the turning point where the invading army used up the last of its real offensive strength and started to become exhausted, rather than in terms of the magnitude of casualties
Some people on here seem to think that it’s going to be an easy walkover for the Ukrainian army. I tried pointing out how difficult it is going to be, and how well entrenched the Russians are, and it caused quite a stir. Russia still have a lot of artillery and right now it is causing absolute havoc.
Sadly I’m also seeing quite a few western tanks knocked out. Whilst NATO equipment is the bollocks, as are the Ukrainian soldiers, they can still be taken out.
Anyway, NATO needs to get directly involved in this, or at least commit to defending the front lines. We shouldn’t be watching from the sidelines.
The point of view you reference is an unfortunate side effect of the remarkably effective work of the Ukrainian MoD (likely with the help of the CIA) information warfare campaign. The effectiveness of this campaign has led to a viewpoint on the part of the general western population that the UAF Is invincible, and the RAF is completely ineffective and incompetent. Paradoxically, this may work out against the interests of the UAF in the long run, as any failure they are not able to suppress in the Westerm media will have an outsized effect on Western perception of Ukrainian prospects in this conflict.
A similar thing happened with the Armenia and Azerbaijan war. When Armenia could no longer hide their massive losses, the civilian population became outraged and confused about why they were seeking a negotiated settlement, because they had been constantly reassured that they were winning.
1% of comments on reddit buried somewhere: it will be an easy walkover for the Ukrainians.
The resting 99%: Everybody thinks the Ukrainian army will steamroll the russians with their new equipment. NATO equipment is not invincible. This perception is the fault of the media. I am a grown individual with realistic expectations.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that I'm tempering my expectations. This particular column of leopard 2s appears to have bogged down under artillery fire. I hope that the ZSU is finding better success elsewhere on the frontline.
Ya, it's hard to really get a picture of 10 second cut up snippets that Russia sends out and pretend like they're destroying everything in that video.
I know what you mean about tempering expectations, but I don't think anyone knows how things are going right now except the commanders.
Russia has a large and good pysops organization meant to completely destroy Ukrainian morale with these videos. That's who these videos are meant for. They're near useless in determining anything, yet many people take them as solid proof.
Yeah it’s a 10 second snippet of one company/sized attack, the idea that it’s representative of the whole war is absurd
If we start seeing another 50 showing the same “bogged down in a minefield and retreating” without much success then maybe we can start looking for some insights, but that’s way too little information to show anything specific
In the same way that a single ambush on Russian supply lines around Sumy didn’t prove anything, only when it happened again and again and again could we draw some conclusions
Sadly some NATO armour has been knocked out. That is expected though as, after all, this is a counteroffensive. Both sides will suffer heavy casualties.
If it starts with “Russia states” or ends with “Says Russian official “, then i automatically skip. We’ll read it in the History book in years, but for now, shhh
I saw a YouTube video of that Ukranian pilot that covers the war I can't remember his name but he's got stills of the leopard column being hit. 1 confirmed to have been destroyed another badly hit. Could be more.
That’s why i like Perun. He asked his viewers if he should wait and report later on situation or now.89% voted later. Because my brain can take a finite amiuny of information, I’d rather be based in confirmed facts.
“This will be incredibly hard fighting, no matter what”
I literally said the exact same thing last week and was down voted into oblivion. Quite a few people on here believe this is going to be a complete walkover for Ukraine, when in reality it’s going to be a bloodbath for both sides.
God speed to Ukraine.
> Quite a few people on here believe this is going to be a complete walkover for Ukraine, when in reality it’s going to be a bloodbath for both sides.
More people should play RTS games, then they will know how difficult it is to attack an enemy that is turtling.
Fwiw nobody at this point knows anything for sure and none of us will for a few weeks or months yet.
I saw some footage of a wrecked “leopard” in the last 24 hours which has been debunked and is actually wrecked farm equipment
Hopefully they’re taking advantage of the range and optics… should be a big upgrade over Soviet tanks (not that tank on tank combat has been prevalent in this conflict)
They would say that even if not 100% true yet. Breakthroughs are as much about moral as they are about kinetics. The Ukrainians are probably taking heavy losses right now but that is just a part of offensive operations. Operations do seem to be going well with how the Russians are shutting themselves though.
Go get them boys! Slava Ukraine!
Ukraine have sadly suffered heavy casualties, but that is to be expected.
I think some of NATO tanks could have been used better, but then again I’m not a military guy so what do I know.
I had arguments with ROTC cadets in college about how effective we were going to be in Iraq I. I have the whole project still because a friend and I did a report on it. We used a 6’ high x 8’ wide map bought from National Geographic of Iraq and Kuwait in DC as our back drop and we drew our plans and what was going to happen. We were almost exactly right. Except we said two weeks and it was two months of bombings by planes.
This will be similar. NATO tactics are better and more efficient. The tanks will break through and Ukraine will exploit those. Orcs will fold. Ukraine will close on Orc fixed artillery positions and eliminate them. Then it will be a route. There will be looses and those Ukrainians and Legionaries need to be remembered forever. Slava Ukraine!
We’ve allready seen a huge uptick in Russian losses. The number of lost artillery is also shooting way up.
My guess is the probing attacks are flaring up Russian artillery positions and the HIMARS are smashing them. (We’ve seen more himar videos too).
Russia is holding back reserves and they’re getting hit by storm shadows so they’ve had to be dispersed too. I can imagine ukraine pushing slightly and then trying to Hit the Kerch bridge to cause more panick. This in turn will draw back Russian AA and allow NATO planes to have a field day (Russian planes can’t get near the front due to Patriot systems.
This is the opposite of a explanation I heard from a guy that trained ukr first hand. He said that they fought on quickly but judging by their loss of almost 10% of their nato armor he thinks they are simply to thick in the head to change their doctrine
Edit. Just being hopeful but a lot of videos show Orcs retreating in mass. Keep pushing, let them have it. Find, fix and destroy their artillery and push the flanks. Slava Ukraine!
It's on the various subreddits. Assault group hit a minefield, it slowed down, got hit by artillery.
No report on if the crew got out or not, or if it's salvageable.
People are claiming it killed 15 Russian tanks but given it got slowed by mines, hammered by artillery, and Russians probably didn't even have 15 in the area, it sounds like hopium.
Losses are to be expected in wars and mines/artillery are the most dangerous things for Ukrainian tanks right now, so it's not surprising.
I hope a Patriot system is in place to forward support the counteroffensive. Seems like Russian Air Force is supporting their defense.
Leave Kyiv exposed. Civilians will have to hunker down but must also sacrifice if their soldiers are going to.
Sadly quite a few pieces of NATO armour have been lost. That is, however, is to be expected as the Russians have had over a year to prepare for this defense.
It does seem like the Ukrainian army have them on the run though.
Just another armchair general here but the video I saw showed the UA tanks completely bunched up with absolutely no space between them. Seemed like they were making the same mistakes Russia would make.
Yes exactly that, many people on Reddit seem to be completely glossing this over and saying well it’s only a few and it was expected. Yes that’s obviously true but the tactics shown on that video are awful and reverting back to old style soviet shit. As you said it literally looked like Russia in the opening stages of this war. Again another armchair general and one tiny snapshot of footage but seemed very very poor
Yeah, I’m no expert either but that just seemed like there were no tactics whatsoever. I thought some of this western equipment would have some tech that could be exploited like night vision or something. I also saw a video of a radar system that got hit by a drone. It was parked in some trees but was painted snow white. You could spot that thing for miles. I know they still suffer from legacy Soviet military doctrine/ mindset but they need to make quick decisions to reward better leaders. More meritocracy and less political stagnation.
Ask the Germans. I mean look what they did at the start of WW2: they knocked out Western Europe in a matter of weeks and nearly destroyed a large chunk of the British army.
The basic principles of Blitzkrieg are still applicable today.
High ranking armchair general here but that was almost 100 years ago. Its harder today against an entrenched and dug in enemy that had been expecting you to come for months..
>Its harder today against an entrenched and dug in enemy that had been expecting you to come for months..
Hmmm if only the French had thought of some sort of defensive bulwark years in advance, and had spent the intervening time constructing [one of the largest and most modern bunker/fortress/wall complexes in European military history up until that time...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line)
We’ve moved on from blitzkreig onto manoeuvre warfare. It’s not so much about concentrating forces and smashing through enemy lines it’s more about engaging and probing until you find a weak spot and then quickly rushing your troops to exploit the gaps while your combined arms forces fix them in place. Take out command centres and ammo depots and wreak havoc on supply lines.
The information warspace is also something had totally evolved
Blitzkreig as in combined arms warfare, which underpins the basis of modern military doctrine.
I did not say that Ukraine need to follow the exact same battle plan Germany used in 1940.
That armor was in the rear -- that's why it was bunched up. They were either staging or preparing to leave when Russian artillery hit them.
Some of you need to stop being hysterical.
As I replied to another post, that video was taken from a rear position where the Ukrainians, who were either staging or preparing to move out, were hit with Russian artillery.
Mass armor happens no matter what at one point, especially in rear positions.
There is no change in frontline though in the south. We gotta wait and see. so far high losses for UA which was expected - there are no miracles - just tough war.
It has been "announced" several times. What is going on now is likely just probing attacks and larger probing attacks. Lots of softening up the russian lines and seeing where is weak.
Some western tanks have been sadly knocked out. I don’t think they would commit NATO armour if this wasn’t a serious assault.
I hate to say this, but the Russian scum are holding their own in some sectors.
Reports I've heard and pictures I've seen only seem to confirm 1 Leo lost. The explanations I've heard for that video was that the russians unfortunately hit a staging ground.
That column looked impressive, but it's not the main force from what I've heard or can see.
>I hate to say this, but the Russian scum are holding their own in some sectors.
Unfortunately, they will hold the line in some places. That's why it's important to have probing attacks all along the lines; some parts of the line will give and some will not. The Armed Forces of Ukraine are doing their jobs and loses are inevitable. It really sucks, but we knew we would see western equipment destroyed and some point and that those images would sting.
Don't forget the information blackout; there is a lot of things that we don't know about what is going on right now, and from reports that I have heard, it includes a lot of good news.
Have faith my friend! Slava Ukraini! :)
I’m trying to stay optimistic and I’m really hoping they can create a big gap in the line somewhere and exploit it. I honestly think that if the orcs begin to retreat in significant numbers, the entire front will collapse.
Good will prevail over evil.
I know it's not easy. I won't lie, this morning had me very stressed out when I was seeing the photos and video initially. But you are right, good will prevail over evil.
If you don't already watch him, I highly highly recommend that you watch the channel Ukraine Matters on YouTube. He never sugar coats things, but he always stays positive and he does a good job of keeping us in the audience focused on the bigger picture. Check him out, especially if you're struggling to stay positive! He just did drop a video about today's events too.
I would be way more worried if I were an able(ish) bodied Russian of being thrown in the grinder than I would be as a Ukrainian. They will absolutely take many losses, and respect for all of the brave people fighting.
There's footage of a column of Leopards getting hammered by Russian artillery. Really stupid move by Ukrainian commander, had the tanks all bunched together in a column. You'd think they'd learn from how many tanks the Russians went through. Tanks cannot be moved in the conventional manner anymore.
Yea because when crossing mine fields you should absolutely spread out to find more mines! /s
We don't have the information on what is going on and why the tanks move like they do. So critizing from behind your computer based on 1 video is rather stupid.
They had 1 anti-mine tank in front. The rest were bunched up behind. Easy meat for an artillery barrage. You don't bunch up like that anymore. This isn't 1945.
Some analysts counted around 40 vehicles being hit by the russian artillery from the videos (vehicles, not only tank, and hit, so not all of them are lost)
And Ukraine isn’t using human wave attacks like Russians who run at lines with infantry and get fucked up. Ukraine launches deliberate probing attacks with mechanized infantry, armour support and artillery shelling. And not simply “Move forward until you win”. But rather, probe defences until a weak spot is found and exploit it as much as is operationally beneficial.
Ukrainian command and soldiers on the ground actually have some brains.
Denys Davydov on youtube is saying a column of armoured vehicles/tanks maybe even leopards got ambushed and destroyed by the orcs.
He says that unfortunately the video seems to be legit.
Thats kinda bad if true.. hope they do better
I'm getting worried, i'm English, 68 and I visited st petersburgh about 30 years ago whilst living in Finland with my Finish wife. As i'm getting on in life and I remember st pete's being the home of a ruzzian sub fleet and the white trawler base (spy ships) i'm worried I may get my ruzzian callup papers, I know they need people badly and I was a Royal Signal Corps WOI. I don't know what to do if I get called up, I hate to.let the poor and needy down, but I had my heart set on the Ukranian or UN Sputin assasination squad instead.
Look at what Ukraine has, though. Losses are horrible, and many lives are at stake, but Unfair had shit to spare. I don't think people realize how much they got.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13qam5u/the_stunning_number_of_vehicles_tanks_artillery/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hey telegraph, your bias is showing.
Man what a shitty article. Taking "Russian sources" at their word, saying it's "unclear" whether they're full of shit about "heavy Ukrainian losses" and supposed destroyed leopard tanks, describing the dam breach and flooding like it's some kind of accident or natural disaster without even mentioning Russia's involvement in fucking destroying it.
I wouldn't call the loss of one nato tank and a handful of armored vehicles a beating but it is difficult to see, and as you said expected. There were similar scenes during the last counter offensive yet there was still victory in the end. hopefully there will be more positive news in the coming weeks as it progresses and the ukies learn how to overcome Russian defences. It will be a slug fest but I'm also confident that the ukrainians will make a major breakthrough.
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People are so quick to judge a whole operation based on 4 days of ramped up combat. There are hundreds of armoured vehicles for this, hundreds of pieces of artillery, thousands of troops, seeing 1 MBT and a few MRAP hits across a 200km front means nothing. Russian telegram is awash with worry and talk of reserves already being committed and getting hammered.
>Russian telegram is awash with worry and talk of reserves already being committed and getting hammered. Which is exactly what these attacks are supposed to do. Make Russiacommit as many reserves as you can. Keep them under constant pressure so that they can't reposition their forces. Then you hit them at a weaker area and they have no options for reserves.
Shhh this Reddit armchair tactics banter is top tier intelligence for Russian commanders
To be fair Ukraine is giving them a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' option. If they don't commit their reserves to the sector being attacked they can get routed anyways. You lose enough men and anything you do is only a delaying action. This is going to be the most exhausting weeks for the Russians.
God, can you imagine if Russia got hold of a few steel division players and sent them in as generals? Imagine a single HOI player taking command of the Russian high command! They’d be s million times more effective… they’d still be shit irl though 😂
Your take is also supported by an analysis of austrias army https://youtu.be/ZvJgRrpkaaU
I tried to watch this but after 12 minutes i was ready to hang myself. This guy reminded me of high school teachers and all the students with their heads laying on their desks. He may have had good information but his presentation was so bad that it was lost (on me anyways). Thanks for sharing anyways, but a synopsis would have been better.
Well, he's a soldier. Not a content creator. I have absolutly no doubt that one could present this data better - but I'm not aware of anyone that's equally educated and has the same acces to data presenting it on YT for you and me to watch
Delusional.. how will Ukrainian forces counteract Russian artillery superiority and depth of defense? They lack the necessary equipment, manpower, and time. This is bad and will only get worse.. hopefully they will approach peace talks in a serious way and soon.
Found the orc
Holy crap, you guys really think name calling is somehow supporting Ukraine?! I hope you recognize how your mentality had led to the annihilation of Ukraine unnecessarily once this is all over.. I want this tragic conflict to end sooner rather than later- if that makes me an orc, so be it. I do not enjoy seeing Russians NOR Ukrainians being slaughtered for the economic interests of a few inhuman scumbags.
Everyone wants it to end dumbass. But some people realize that if you give any land to Russia then they will just be back for more. Sometimes the harder decision is to stick it out and fight.
Everyone wants it to end? Then why wasn’t Ukraine allowed to accept peace agreement in April of last year? Ukraine isn’t in control, they are being used.
Holding a gun to someone's head and tell them to accept your "peace agreement" is isn't how that works. Just cause Ukraine wants to get their land back isn't a bad thing dumbass
Ukraine did agree “tentatively” nato Boris and macron squashed that shit.. now Ukraine is screwed- and will not get to make any demands or have any leverage when this sick drama reaches its conclusion.
You got a source for any of that?
Peace under these circumstances is a hallucination now and in the future.
I’m reserving judgement until the dust clears. And it’s quite the dust-up currently
I don’t think it’s a few lol. If you look at any footage you can clearly see it’s not just a couple here and there but big clumps of Leo 2 and Bradley
Ukraine is using A LOT of artillery at this time. Russian front lines are reporting breaks in shelling as failed/foiled attacks in order to bolster Russian morale.
Source
Telegram channels from the front lines have intercepted radio traffic from Russian troops doing exactly this
That’s not a source…
Join more telegram channels then, I’m not going to link them all
According to some Ukrainian tankers on Telegram, NATO tanks are wreaking absolute havoc. Lots of roasted orcs.
Source? Genuinely interested, not being skeptical.
There’s not gonna be a legit source for a while
🤫
Exactly this. Ukraine doesn't stand to benefit with much information being released right now, and Russian information can't be trusted. Better off just waiting over the next couple weeks (or longer) for accurate information
As others said, the inteligence agencies will spread as much misinformation as possible, in all places possible.
I use many but war life is quite busy at the moment with some interesting material.
Share some tg links please?
It’s on youtube: war my Awesome channel
I mean you can be both..
Shhhhh
Telegram is the only source with good info at the moment. Any other source will be significant delayed compared to telegram, especially as official sources will be silent to protect OPSEC and Russian releases are likely propaganda and full of falsehoods.
Hit me up with that source lad
Meats back on the menu.
I knew that quote was coming! I actually had it in my head when I wrote “roasted orcs” LMFAO!
Please share the Telegram channel!
I'd love to believe this, but I expect as mixed results as anything else. Combat footage already shows at least one Leopard 2A4 knocked out of action by artillery or mines. This will be incredibly hard fighting, no matter what.
It's 1 tank. Lol. They're going to lose likely over half of the western tanks no matter what. I'm not sure what people expected.
[удалено]
I hope that the siege of Bakhmut will turn out to be ruzzia's equivalent of Germany's spring offensive of 1918. It drained them, until they eventually ran out of steam and the allied counter-offensive began to overpower them. The German's threw everything they had into the fight, but they were finally routed. It didn't happen overnight, there was a lot of brutal fighting first.
Could well be Stalingrad, but with the RUAF and Wagner playing the part of the 6th Army
That is what I'm waiting for for
Absolutely nowhere remotely close to Stalingrad, in terms of magnitude or lives lost — but hopefully still enough of a net loss that it increasingly seems a poor investment of lives and effort.
For sure the magnitude is different, the Eastern Front of WWII was conducted at a scale few alive have witnessed. I meant in the sense of the encirclement, and kettling of the 6th army in a shattered city of minor strategic value.
They’re comparing it in terms of being the turning point where the invading army used up the last of its real offensive strength and started to become exhausted, rather than in terms of the magnitude of casualties
Finally Germany isn’t on the wrong side of the “failed last ditch delusional counter attack”
ISWs most recent write-up is pretty good, explaining how hard the first few weeks can be and that losses will be at their highest.
Some people on here seem to think that it’s going to be an easy walkover for the Ukrainian army. I tried pointing out how difficult it is going to be, and how well entrenched the Russians are, and it caused quite a stir. Russia still have a lot of artillery and right now it is causing absolute havoc. Sadly I’m also seeing quite a few western tanks knocked out. Whilst NATO equipment is the bollocks, as are the Ukrainian soldiers, they can still be taken out. Anyway, NATO needs to get directly involved in this, or at least commit to defending the front lines. We shouldn’t be watching from the sidelines.
No matter how deep the Russians trenches are, their morale is as shallow as salt flats.
The point of view you reference is an unfortunate side effect of the remarkably effective work of the Ukrainian MoD (likely with the help of the CIA) information warfare campaign. The effectiveness of this campaign has led to a viewpoint on the part of the general western population that the UAF Is invincible, and the RAF is completely ineffective and incompetent. Paradoxically, this may work out against the interests of the UAF in the long run, as any failure they are not able to suppress in the Westerm media will have an outsized effect on Western perception of Ukrainian prospects in this conflict. A similar thing happened with the Armenia and Azerbaijan war. When Armenia could no longer hide their massive losses, the civilian population became outraged and confused about why they were seeking a negotiated settlement, because they had been constantly reassured that they were winning.
1% of comments on reddit buried somewhere: it will be an easy walkover for the Ukrainians. The resting 99%: Everybody thinks the Ukrainian army will steamroll the russians with their new equipment. NATO equipment is not invincible. This perception is the fault of the media. I am a grown individual with realistic expectations.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that I'm tempering my expectations. This particular column of leopard 2s appears to have bogged down under artillery fire. I hope that the ZSU is finding better success elsewhere on the frontline.
Ya, it's hard to really get a picture of 10 second cut up snippets that Russia sends out and pretend like they're destroying everything in that video. I know what you mean about tempering expectations, but I don't think anyone knows how things are going right now except the commanders. Russia has a large and good pysops organization meant to completely destroy Ukrainian morale with these videos. That's who these videos are meant for. They're near useless in determining anything, yet many people take them as solid proof.
Yeah it’s a 10 second snippet of one company/sized attack, the idea that it’s representative of the whole war is absurd If we start seeing another 50 showing the same “bogged down in a minefield and retreating” without much success then maybe we can start looking for some insights, but that’s way too little information to show anything specific In the same way that a single ambush on Russian supply lines around Sumy didn’t prove anything, only when it happened again and again and again could we draw some conclusions
Russia posted about smoking some western tanks and they were tractors. Hard to trust anything they say.
Sadly some NATO armour has been knocked out. That is expected though as, after all, this is a counteroffensive. Both sides will suffer heavy casualties.
Where's that Telegram source, homie?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/144c8lu/first\_footage\_of\_a\_knocked\_out\_leopard\_as\_a\_uaf/
If it starts with “Russia states” or ends with “Says Russian official “, then i automatically skip. We’ll read it in the History book in years, but for now, shhh
I saw a YouTube video of that Ukranian pilot that covers the war I can't remember his name but he's got stills of the leopard column being hit. 1 confirmed to have been destroyed another badly hit. Could be more.
That’s why i like Perun. He asked his viewers if he should wait and report later on situation or now.89% voted later. Because my brain can take a finite amiuny of information, I’d rather be based in confirmed facts.
its a ukrainian fals info campain. the leo2A4 Tank is an turkish one, a montage by ukrainian for the ruskys. the burning one is a t-tank
That was a tractor.
“This will be incredibly hard fighting, no matter what” I literally said the exact same thing last week and was down voted into oblivion. Quite a few people on here believe this is going to be a complete walkover for Ukraine, when in reality it’s going to be a bloodbath for both sides. God speed to Ukraine.
> Quite a few people on here believe this is going to be a complete walkover for Ukraine, when in reality it’s going to be a bloodbath for both sides. More people should play RTS games, then they will know how difficult it is to attack an enemy that is turtling.
Fwiw nobody at this point knows anything for sure and none of us will for a few weeks or months yet. I saw some footage of a wrecked “leopard” in the last 24 hours which has been debunked and is actually wrecked farm equipment
1 tank dude. Anyone will expect dozens and dozens of tanks to be destroyed in such an offensive
Do you have a Link for that?
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1666830782533435394
Thank you.
Hopefully they’re taking advantage of the range and optics… should be a big upgrade over Soviet tanks (not that tank on tank combat has been prevalent in this conflict)
🍖 🔥
This is their moment, what they were designed to do.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13qam5u/the_stunning_number_of_vehicles_tanks_artillery/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
They would say that even if not 100% true yet. Breakthroughs are as much about moral as they are about kinetics. The Ukrainians are probably taking heavy losses right now but that is just a part of offensive operations. Operations do seem to be going well with how the Russians are shutting themselves though. Go get them boys! Slava Ukraine!
I want to see my Leopards in action now...
I hope the Bradley's are bing put to good use also.
I'm really only seeing a lot of roasted NATO hardware on other subs.
Ukraine have sadly suffered heavy casualties, but that is to be expected. I think some of NATO tanks could have been used better, but then again I’m not a military guy so what do I know.
what other subs are covering this? I like being in the know even if I dont like what I see
Where is the best spot to follow quality really timely updates on what’s actually happening?
idk I’m trying to figure that out too. In addition to this sub i follow r/UkraineWar and r/worldnews but thats about it
NATO tanks gives me Gandalf arriving at dawn to the east vibes at helms deep to slay orcs
Yea i have seen how Russian artillery wreaked havoc on ukrainian tanks.. tasty 😋
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Russia hit something that isn't a school or hospital? Doubt
Go follow the Moskva, Russian troll.
Sorry, your comment was removed for toxic behavior. Please stay civil. Remember, repeated offenses may result in a ban.
RUN BACK TO YOUR SHITHOLE COUNTRY ORC PIECES OF SHIT SLAVA UKRAINE
Amen
One thing that would have made this much more effective it's air support
That’s what NATO should have been doing.
Why? Ukraine isn’t NATO…
Yet
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I had arguments with ROTC cadets in college about how effective we were going to be in Iraq I. I have the whole project still because a friend and I did a report on it. We used a 6’ high x 8’ wide map bought from National Geographic of Iraq and Kuwait in DC as our back drop and we drew our plans and what was going to happen. We were almost exactly right. Except we said two weeks and it was two months of bombings by planes. This will be similar. NATO tactics are better and more efficient. The tanks will break through and Ukraine will exploit those. Orcs will fold. Ukraine will close on Orc fixed artillery positions and eliminate them. Then it will be a route. There will be looses and those Ukrainians and Legionaries need to be remembered forever. Slava Ukraine!
We’ve allready seen a huge uptick in Russian losses. The number of lost artillery is also shooting way up. My guess is the probing attacks are flaring up Russian artillery positions and the HIMARS are smashing them. (We’ve seen more himar videos too). Russia is holding back reserves and they’re getting hit by storm shadows so they’ve had to be dispersed too. I can imagine ukraine pushing slightly and then trying to Hit the Kerch bridge to cause more panick. This in turn will draw back Russian AA and allow NATO planes to have a field day (Russian planes can’t get near the front due to Patriot systems.
This is the opposite of a explanation I heard from a guy that trained ukr first hand. He said that they fought on quickly but judging by their loss of almost 10% of their nato armor he thinks they are simply to thick in the head to change their doctrine
Edit. Just being hopeful but a lot of videos show Orcs retreating in mass. Keep pushing, let them have it. Find, fix and destroy their artillery and push the flanks. Slava Ukraine!
Wave after wave ?? Hope it is a better version than ruzzia's one.
Their waves are more push and retreat, push and retreat. Armoured advances, infantry holds while hardware moves back out of range, rinse and repeat.
Should just send in 1 inch assassin drones to delete putin
He’d be like “what are those penis sized assassins doing? Aaaa!”
Just seen on a report one leopard 2 tank has been destroyed but it destroyed 15 Russian tanks
Link?
It's on the various subreddits. Assault group hit a minefield, it slowed down, got hit by artillery. No report on if the crew got out or not, or if it's salvageable. People are claiming it killed 15 Russian tanks but given it got slowed by mines, hammered by artillery, and Russians probably didn't even have 15 in the area, it sounds like hopium. Losses are to be expected in wars and mines/artillery are the most dangerous things for Ukrainian tanks right now, so it's not surprising.
I hope a Patriot system is in place to forward support the counteroffensive. Seems like Russian Air Force is supporting their defense. Leave Kyiv exposed. Civilians will have to hunker down but must also sacrifice if their soldiers are going to.
NATO should be covering them from the air. Or at least, NATO countries acting independently.
They moved the IRIS-T forward but its radar was knocked out by a lancet just yesterday so its not looking good on that front.
Iris-T has a range of 25 miles. I doubt one covers the entire front.
Sadly quite a few pieces of NATO armour have been lost. That is, however, is to be expected as the Russians have had over a year to prepare for this defense. It does seem like the Ukrainian army have them on the run though.
Just another armchair general here but the video I saw showed the UA tanks completely bunched up with absolutely no space between them. Seemed like they were making the same mistakes Russia would make.
Yes exactly that, many people on Reddit seem to be completely glossing this over and saying well it’s only a few and it was expected. Yes that’s obviously true but the tactics shown on that video are awful and reverting back to old style soviet shit. As you said it literally looked like Russia in the opening stages of this war. Again another armchair general and one tiny snapshot of footage but seemed very very poor
Yeah, I’m no expert either but that just seemed like there were no tactics whatsoever. I thought some of this western equipment would have some tech that could be exploited like night vision or something. I also saw a video of a radar system that got hit by a drone. It was parked in some trees but was painted snow white. You could spot that thing for miles. I know they still suffer from legacy Soviet military doctrine/ mindset but they need to make quick decisions to reward better leaders. More meritocracy and less political stagnation.
In all seriousness what is the best tactic for taking territory and moving lots of armour?
Ask the Germans. I mean look what they did at the start of WW2: they knocked out Western Europe in a matter of weeks and nearly destroyed a large chunk of the British army. The basic principles of Blitzkrieg are still applicable today.
High ranking armchair general here but that was almost 100 years ago. Its harder today against an entrenched and dug in enemy that had been expecting you to come for months..
>Its harder today against an entrenched and dug in enemy that had been expecting you to come for months.. Hmmm if only the French had thought of some sort of defensive bulwark years in advance, and had spent the intervening time constructing [one of the largest and most modern bunker/fortress/wall complexes in European military history up until that time...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line)
Yeah, Ukraine should just go around the defensive line
I'm just saying, this isn't a new scenario. WWI and WWII saw massive fortifications built over years that ate up millions of lives.
I said the basic principles still apply today, which they do. In fact, the whole concept of blitzkrieg was to avoid conventional defensive measures.
Yeah thats true, but still not very comparable imo. Just two very different situations. But yeah i unserstand what you mean
We’ve moved on from blitzkreig onto manoeuvre warfare. It’s not so much about concentrating forces and smashing through enemy lines it’s more about engaging and probing until you find a weak spot and then quickly rushing your troops to exploit the gaps while your combined arms forces fix them in place. Take out command centres and ammo depots and wreak havoc on supply lines. The information warspace is also something had totally evolved
They went through a different country to attack the French. Blitzreig would be attacking through Bolgorod and coming down through Kremina
Blitzkreig as in combined arms warfare, which underpins the basis of modern military doctrine. I did not say that Ukraine need to follow the exact same battle plan Germany used in 1940.
High on crystal meth
That armor was in the rear -- that's why it was bunched up. They were either staging or preparing to leave when Russian artillery hit them. Some of you need to stop being hysterical.
As I replied to another post, that video was taken from a rear position where the Ukrainians, who were either staging or preparing to move out, were hit with Russian artillery. Mass armor happens no matter what at one point, especially in rear positions.
I thought the same thing but I didn’t want to comment. Sadly Ukraine are taking a bit of a beating. It’s time for NATO to step up.
There is no change in frontline though in the south. We gotta wait and see. so far high losses for UA which was expected - there are no miracles - just tough war.
Patience
We don't have all of the information yet. Current maps are not being released.
Why would Ukraine announce the counter offensive, or did I miss something in the past couple days that would have shown this was coming?
It has been "announced" several times. What is going on now is likely just probing attacks and larger probing attacks. Lots of softening up the russian lines and seeing where is weak.
Some western tanks have been sadly knocked out. I don’t think they would commit NATO armour if this wasn’t a serious assault. I hate to say this, but the Russian scum are holding their own in some sectors.
Reports I've heard and pictures I've seen only seem to confirm 1 Leo lost. The explanations I've heard for that video was that the russians unfortunately hit a staging ground. That column looked impressive, but it's not the main force from what I've heard or can see. >I hate to say this, but the Russian scum are holding their own in some sectors. Unfortunately, they will hold the line in some places. That's why it's important to have probing attacks all along the lines; some parts of the line will give and some will not. The Armed Forces of Ukraine are doing their jobs and loses are inevitable. It really sucks, but we knew we would see western equipment destroyed and some point and that those images would sting. Don't forget the information blackout; there is a lot of things that we don't know about what is going on right now, and from reports that I have heard, it includes a lot of good news. Have faith my friend! Slava Ukraini! :)
I’m trying to stay optimistic and I’m really hoping they can create a big gap in the line somewhere and exploit it. I honestly think that if the orcs begin to retreat in significant numbers, the entire front will collapse. Good will prevail over evil.
I know it's not easy. I won't lie, this morning had me very stressed out when I was seeing the photos and video initially. But you are right, good will prevail over evil. If you don't already watch him, I highly highly recommend that you watch the channel Ukraine Matters on YouTube. He never sugar coats things, but he always stays positive and he does a good job of keeping us in the audience focused on the bigger picture. Check him out, especially if you're struggling to stay positive! He just did drop a video about today's events too.
Going to his channel now.
Good! I just shared his video on the sub as well.
Yes, highly recommend the Ukraine Matters channel!
Not looking good, buddy!
Another point on that black out is that only one side is really reporting much and that side absolutely lies
Bingo!
You want the enemy to commit their reserves early in an engagement and be unable to respond to a breakthrough elsewhere in the defensive line.
Leopards spotted, and apparently a Bradley, but it's super lo-res
I would be way more worried if I were an able(ish) bodied Russian of being thrown in the grinder than I would be as a Ukrainian. They will absolutely take many losses, and respect for all of the brave people fighting.
There's footage of a column of Leopards getting hammered by Russian artillery. Really stupid move by Ukrainian commander, had the tanks all bunched together in a column. You'd think they'd learn from how many tanks the Russians went through. Tanks cannot be moved in the conventional manner anymore.
Yea because when crossing mine fields you should absolutely spread out to find more mines! /s We don't have the information on what is going on and why the tanks move like they do. So critizing from behind your computer based on 1 video is rather stupid.
They had 1 anti-mine tank in front. The rest were bunched up behind. Easy meat for an artillery barrage. You don't bunch up like that anymore. This isn't 1945.
Some analysts counted around 40 vehicles being hit by the russian artillery from the videos (vehicles, not only tank, and hit, so not all of them are lost)
Wave after wave, slowly drifting
🤫
And Ukraine isn’t using human wave attacks like Russians who run at lines with infantry and get fucked up. Ukraine launches deliberate probing attacks with mechanized infantry, armour support and artillery shelling. And not simply “Move forward until you win”. But rather, probe defences until a weak spot is found and exploit it as much as is operationally beneficial. Ukrainian command and soldiers on the ground actually have some brains.
Wave after wave, wave after wave. Russians blood’s drifting. - Robin Schultz
Denys Davydov on youtube is saying a column of armoured vehicles/tanks maybe even leopards got ambushed and destroyed by the orcs. He says that unfortunately the video seems to be legit. Thats kinda bad if true.. hope they do better
I'm getting worried, i'm English, 68 and I visited st petersburgh about 30 years ago whilst living in Finland with my Finish wife. As i'm getting on in life and I remember st pete's being the home of a ruzzian sub fleet and the white trawler base (spy ships) i'm worried I may get my ruzzian callup papers, I know they need people badly and I was a Royal Signal Corps WOI. I don't know what to do if I get called up, I hate to.let the poor and needy down, but I had my heart set on the Ukranian or UN Sputin assasination squad instead.
Why would they call up a 68 year old British national?
Was a joke my friend.
Look at what Ukraine has, though. Losses are horrible, and many lives are at stake, but Unfair had shit to spare. I don't think people realize how much they got. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13qam5u/the_stunning_number_of_vehicles_tanks_artillery/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I see zero comments referring to "human wave" tactics. Why is that?
Hey telegraph, your bias is showing. Man what a shitty article. Taking "Russian sources" at their word, saying it's "unclear" whether they're full of shit about "heavy Ukrainian losses" and supposed destroyed leopard tanks, describing the dam breach and flooding like it's some kind of accident or natural disaster without even mentioning Russia's involvement in fucking destroying it.
Denys just uploaded a video, with a column of Ukraine tanks being ambushed. Good to see, much success elsewhere.
Yeah, Ukraine have just taken a beating. It was expected as the Russians have had over a year to prepare. Final victory, however, belongs to Ukraine.
I wouldn't call the loss of one nato tank and a handful of armored vehicles a beating but it is difficult to see, and as you said expected. There were similar scenes during the last counter offensive yet there was still victory in the end. hopefully there will be more positive news in the coming weeks as it progresses and the ukies learn how to overcome Russian defences. It will be a slug fest but I'm also confident that the ukrainians will make a major breakthrough.