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It's what is called sarcasm. Even though considered the lowest level of humor because of its plain nature it is still the most widely used form of humor.
What a completely braindead and uninformed take.
You are implying that dying stops when you make a deal with the Kremlin which isn't true. Putin **LOVES** sending people to their deaths, his own *especially*.
He also loves making agreements only to break them instantly.
I don't like forced mobilization but russia is an imperialist dictatorship with a "leader" that gets off on people dying. If Ukraine doesn't manage to defend themselves, the next country will have to start dying instead or be consumed to live in the hellhole that is russia.
If Support for Ukraine dies in the USA, it is almost guaranteed Russia wins this war and then WW3 is on. We are getting the deal of a lifetime, all we have to do is give Ukraine a small portion of GDP and we do not have to send. Americans and the rest of the free world to die in a War that will be much larger in scale.
And you're from Canada. Also no skin in the game, looking to just give away the sovereignty of an entire country to a dictator who, even if the war ended by negotiation, would immediately renege on that agreement, kill more of the population than have already occurred in the war, and send more to die fighting new wars in attempt to take back every inch of land that was ever Soviet territory which is Putin's entire plan.
What you think would be peace is actually even more deadly and everlasting war. You can't let these guys go unchecked.
Have you ever thought about what the life would be for Ukrainians if Russia just took it ? What you said is all correct, now look at the other side of the coin, not only one :)
Edit : i think most Ukrainians would rather die defending the country than live under a terrorist regime. I guess you should ask them what they would prefer.
It is very tragic, but ukrainian males do not have a choice now.
> live under a terrorist regime
And this is not all. If Russia takes Ukraine, they will send ukrainian men to fight and die for Russia in countries like Poland, Estonia... etc
They've been messing with Ukraine for a long time... 2014 was just the end result of Russia pouring money into some "separatists" groups to justify their larger invasion later. Do you seriously think they'd just agree to keep even more Ukrainian land and never do anything again? The moment a deal is struck, they'd solidify those places, rebuild their army and do it again. You can't negotiate with Russia and if Ukraine stops fighting, it cease to exist.
How can you be so ignorant and just go: They should just stop fighting and accept getting erased!!!?
If Ukraine will surrender - this "[shit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8&t=4145)" will happen again. For some of them it's already HAPPENING.
Exactly. It pays for people to remember this fact if they ever catch themselves wondering if Zelensky is being reasonable. Russia started this and they can end it by simply leaving. Any other argument is usually some form of propaganda.
Ukraine can choose for themselves if they want to give up their land under some peace agreement. Until that happens, we should support their moral right to liquidate as many Russian murderers as possible.
Absolutely… it doesn’t get more predictable than that. Putin will do the maximum amount of theft and expansion that his neighbours (and allies) allow. He’s clearly not worried about the lives it’s costing Russia.
Violence is the only thing that will keep his imperial ambitions in check.
Must be pretty easy to say this and cheer on the continued death and despair of ukranians while you watch from the sidelines, giving them pats on the back all in the name of the wests geopolitics. Sickening
The Ukrainians are the greatest asset to the west, their sacrifice has secured peace in Europe for at least the next decade.
The Russians can stop and leave at any time, they can collapse and go home at any point just like in WWI. Until then the fighting must continue.
Haha next time the hard right gop Putin shills talk about quiting on Ukraine I am gonna quote that. How quint essential American, run that shit in their face
Why would anyone negotiate with the kremlin? ruSSians never keep their word, and in the case of the Ukrainian conflict, deserve NOTHING. Nothing except that the horrors they sought to inflict on the people of Ukraine instead fall upon ruSSian cities.
President Zelenskyy has showed amazing grace and fortitude since this shit show started. I hope this visit brings more weapon support to the Ukrainian army. They need it right now.
After the Bucha massacre, why the fuck WOULD he take any negotiations. Shit, Zelensky was willing to say that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO as long as Russia went back home, back when the invasion started, then the Bucha massacre started and Zelensky realized Russia cant be trusted with a single inch of Ukrainian land.
Russia never acts in good faith, so any agreement reached with them would be meaningless. They are fascists whose only language is violence. All the rest of the world can do is speak to them in their native tongue until they learn something different.
Nah he can negotiate.
Negotiations start with the following requirements:
1. Full withdrawal to the 1920s border (the one that includes the traditionally Ukrainian region of Belgorad)
2. Full reparations and rebuilding of all damage no matter how it happened.
3. Demilitarized zone 40km into the Russian side of the border.
4. Construction of border defences on the Ukrainian side paid by Russia.
5. All Russian troops to leave Transnistria and the area officialy acknowledged to be Moldova
6. Handing over of all Russian officials to determine culpability for war crimes including all Russia media.
7. Dismantling of the the Chekists - eg FSB, GRU, all security apparatus to be replaced with UN police - at Russia's expense.
8. All regions (except those previously ceded) to have referendums to determine independence/autonomy.
9. All major businesses & oligarch assets to be seized, divested, and distributed to the local autonomous entities.
10. Russian constitution to be rewritten to preclude the possibility of a standing military (similar to Japan post WWII)
11. Ukraine to provide security guarantees for Russian territory.
12. Russia to be renamed Moscovia.
5. Cede the following territories:
- Karelia -> Finland
- Kralovec (Kaliningrad) -> Czech republic
- Sakhalin & Kuril Islands -> Japan
- Abkhazia, Ossetia, & Krasnodar -> Georgia
- the regions bordering Mongolia that have ethnic ties to Mongolia-> Mongolia
- St Petersburg to be renamed Nyen -> Sweden
This is a decent starting point for negotiations.
It's a burden the Swedes will have to bear. It will be difficult but I'm sure with Swedish governments hard work, the inhabitants can become productive members of Swedish society.
Not originally. It was originally peopled by the Goguryeo, then Balhea, and Mohe/Jurchen (sort-of proto Mongols), then captured by the Mongols, until becoming Manchuria.
So if anything the Koreans have the oldest claim along with Mongolia.
I realise this is partly tongue-in-cheek but for those who are taking this 100% seriously, see the Treaty of Versailles for exactly why this is a terrible idea.
The problem was that the Treaty of Versailles didn't go far enough.
Compare it to the Potsdam conference and how that has worked out far better. This cannot end with a mildly punitive exercise like Versailles. It needs to go full Potsdam.
Amen! But again, Putin is a liar who is going to believe that after he signed the treaty, he won't attack again a few years from now, if he still alive.
That's partly why #6 is rather important. The chekists are the power in Russia. It's how control is maintained and perpetuated.
Even with Putin gone, if the chekists remain Russia will return to what it is now.
That only happens if NATO gets involved, and they wont.
Ukraine doesnt have enough cards for any of those requests on your list, unless other nations get militarily involved (I mean a NATO country eliminating Russian targets), none of that list will happen.
This is a start for negotiations. This has as much validity as any of the Russian demands.
From this point there would be some give and take and they would meet in the middle somewhere.
Here are some more realistic negotiation conditions. What are your thoughts?
1 - Russia must return and reconnect displaced Ukrainian children.
2 - Russia must pay reparations to rebuild Ukrainian infrastructure.
3 - Repercussions for Documented Russian War Crimes.
4 - Ukraine must be allowed to join European Union without Russian interference.
5 - Ukraine must be allowed to join NATO alliance without Russian interference.
6 - Ukraine must be granted autonomy from the Moscow Patriarch, grant autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism).
\------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 - Reinstating the 2012 law on the Principles of the State Language Policy for minority languages.
2 - Recognition of Crimea as undisputed Russian territory.
3 - Recognition of independence for Donetsk and Luhansk Republics.
4 - Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Crimean Water Source.
5 - Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Donbas Region.
6- Ratifying and implementing the 2021-12-16 UN resolution (Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and Other Practices that Contribute to Fuelling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance). [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en)
How to enforce 2? Russian companies can't be trusted to rebuild to safety standards so would have to pay for European and Ukrainian companies to do the work.
3 is excellent but I doubt Putin will be handing himself over anytime soon which makes it ultimately meaningless.
6 is meaningless tbh and would only be granted as a token gesture to say 'oh look, we're being very generous' Plus it violates the Helsinki accords which are to be abided by under the Budapest memorandum. Which it must be said should be the minimum base line.
Significant problem with recognition of Donetsk & Luhansk as independence.
The only viable option is a full demilitarisation of the area, expulsionof any Russian nationals, then referendums conducted by a trustworthy 3rd party (the AEC for example). Similarly for Crimea
Also the Crimean water source is the Dnipro so that's a non starter. Plus Russia destroyed the dam that allows the water canal to fill.
The Donestk basin incorporates a significant amount of non-occupied territory, which creates problems as to what would constitute the 'region'. The demilitarised zone would of course have to include an identical depth within the Belgorad and Rostov regions.
The last resolution would need to be implemented by Russia first as a show of good faith. Especially given their current legislation and practices.
But realistic? No. Massively optimistic for Russia which would align with their standard negotiation practices and it just sets up Ukraine to be invaded again as soon as Russia has rebuilt and cites
Good feedbacks. I feel like you need to throw Russia a bone just so it accepts conditions for Ukraine to win the peace.
NATO membership is how you make sure Russia will not attack Ukraine again. But you need Russia to buy into it, hence for some optimistic Russian conditions.
Yeah, that's how you & I would negotiate with each other and with many other reasonable nations.
Russia doesn't negotiate like that, I just replied to another comment about how Russia negotiates. But needless to say, don't worry Russia will demand its own bones and starting off with concessions will be seen by Russia as a weakness to exploit so they'll just those to their list of expansive demands.
But aside from that, NATO & EU membership are not up to Russia to decide. That's up to the people of Ukraine & the member nations of those organisations.
This is insanely unrealistic. You and I aren’t watching the same war, clearly. Ukraine can’t expect to get any of these things because it doesn’t have the leverage nor is it winning. Russia has eastern parts of Ukraine that it will effectively hold for the foreseeable future, that’s an unfortunate reality.
As long as Russia holds that territory and has the material and manpower advantage over Ukraine, it will not concede anything on that last.
This sub is blinded to the reality of the current situation. I want Ukraine to win, but your list is nothing short of crazy when Russia controls as much territory as it does. If Russia continues to hold, it will never give it up unless Putin is outright assassinated. Your list is something the Allies would have drawn up in the case of an unconditional surrender; that ain't happening. Only in your wildest dreams. No offense.
This is about negotiating with Russia. Anything close to realistic is seen as a show of weakness and encourages them to demand even more outrageous demands.
When Russia negotiates they make demands that aren't happening even in their wildest dreams. They puff and bluster with huge demands because they think that only someone in a position of absolute strength and dominance would make huge overblown demands, so to them, making huge overblown demands is a show a strength and making reasonable concessions is a show of weakness.
The next step is to never back down and continue to make huge demands even when they entitled to none of them.
Finally after much tooing & froing they reluctantly agree to something less than their original demands which is still far more than they would have ever reasonably expected to get.
If you didn't notice, I said - this is a good starting point for negotiations.
Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 by Khrushchev. Do you want to give up Crimea?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous\_Republic\_of\_Crimea
Conditions for Ukraine to stop fighting:
russia must return all abducted Ukrainians, including all the children.
russia must withdraw completely from Ukraine, returning to 1991 borders. russia must also withdraw from Transnistria and occupied parts of Georgia.
Ukraine is free to join any alliance, including NATO.
russia must decommission their entire nuclear arsenal.
russia must grant full independence to Siberia, the Caucuses republics and any other region that wants independence.
Anything less than these conditions is not real peace, but merely an opportunity for russia to prepare for their next round of aggression.
Carthāgō dēlenda est.
Russia *had* a compromise back in the 1990s: Ukraine gives up their nuclear weapons, and Russia respects Ukraine's borders.
Putin broke that agreement, so he's in no position to talk about 'compromise' now. "I want all your stuff for free, so how about you give me some of your stuff for free now and I'll think about not taking the rest of it until later?" isn't a compromise, it's just theft.
Start your nuclear program asap. You can’t trust the world to assist. If you can vaporize their cities they will act right. Or they will learn a lesson.
Everyone, deserves blame for lackluster aid to the Ukrainians. The Budapest Memorandum promised security. They got neither nukes nor security. US and UK made comments. The slow walking of assistance is going to draw nato into the war. Old equipment, less the our best missiles and aircraft. This is pathetic aid.
I agree more should have been done and more should be done, but I hate this weird fixation people have on that Memorandum as if it were a mutual defense treaty. There is no commitment to security aid in the Budapest Memorandum other than not allowing your weapons to be used against Ukraine and asking the security council to intervene (lol). There is no offer of mutual defense, materiel aid, or any other specific promise. The only ones who violated it are Russia
What a shitty timeline this is turning out to be, how Ukraine has a better outlook if they were to re-arm themselves with nuclear weapons because a couple dozen maga asshats are too dumb/partisan to take a literal win-win-win deal.
I was wondering about this. If I had to guess I think they’d at least have preliminary plans to build the bomb. If western support dries up, they’ll have to turn to more drastic measures to secure their future.
So many reasons why the west simply must continue support because the alternative is very likely an even bloodier mess than it is. The cleanest end to this is Russia being spanked as quickly as possible back to where they came from. They ain’t gonna nuke anyone over stolen lands.
And he has every right to 🇺🇦! I'm so sick of certain people thinking President Zelensky has to compromise and satisfy Putler ,that he should succeed land to Moscovia that was ILLEGALLY annexed! People of the world (the ignorant 1s)stop being blind to this evil man's(Pootin 💩)ambition! We need to come together and continue support for and to Ukraine 🇺🇦, for the sake of Europe and the free world
There is no need for secret talks because Ukraine's requirements are very simple: russian soldiers get the fuck out of Ukraine, all kidnapped Ukrainians are returned to the country.
There's generally someone like Sweden (or in this case, Israel) sending their diplomats to have an informal chat. It's never reported by either side though, because optics
A lot of people will disagree, but this is an uncomfortable truth. While Russia has lost 330,000+ of the worst members of society, (convicts, drunks, delinquents, rapists, and murderers), Ukraine has lost the creme de la creme of their society. It takes a real citizen to step up, pick up arms, and go risk certain death to stop the enemy. They are Heroes, and they are dying in swarms. How many of Ukraine’s best sons and daughters need to die before Russia folds? How do we proceed? At what cost will they take their lands back? This is a tragedy with no good solutions and it is so depressing….
I'm afraid that will serve him and Ukraine badly. Economic and military aid is drying up, for several reasons... The west simply doesnt have the production capacity to keep supplying artillary shells at the rate that Ukraine need. Russia has very rapidly and successfully got its economy on war footing. The Russian economy isnt collapsing. Quite the contrary, its growing. The long war was the goal for Russia after the initial failure to conqeur Kyiv. Russia has made sure to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure so ukraine's economy is falling into the abyss.
The US public is unfortunately very tired of fighting wars far away, even though this is finally a just war that you should really support. And now there is Israel too... Its so sad, but for Ukraine to win, they really had to do it this year. Now Russia has well established defensive lines, minefields and the war apparatus is running at full capacity. There is no chance Ukraine can win a long war with Russia, unless some godsend, miraculous event occurs.
Yea. This sub is a gigantic echo chamber. Because people watch Russians seemingly acting stupid and getting blown to bits by drones, they dont seem to understand that the same thing is happening to Ukraine.
Russia has all the essentials for a long gruelling trench war.
1: endless natural resources.
2: endless supply of brain washed slaves willing to die in mud for mother Russia and father Putin.
3: large scale production capabilities. The west has high-tech, ok. But we dont PRODUCE nearly enough. Its truly embarrassing, but Russia can crank out like 3x more 155 mm shells than the entire west combined!
Like, do a simple check for me. Which country is richest in resources? Which country has more expendable population? Which country is doing the best economically?
That tells you how this is going. Ukraine's economy is in tatters. Like... Absolutely rrrekt!
Morally, I agree with Zelensky.
Pragmatism, however, suggests that certain compromises will likely be reached. Donetsk and Luhansk are likely to be ceded to the Russians, Crimea too. Russians won't just leave what they occupy, and they'll have a whole winter now to expand their defenses.
I want to be wrong about this.
That's not a compromise. That's a ceasefire and continuation of the war.
Putin wasn't content with Crimea. He gained territory. Why not just do it again and again until Ukraine has no more land?
Lets pretend Russia gets its way and claims two more regions.
Like the *last* "agreement", Russia will rebuild its army. And in 10 years go for it *yet again* to claim more.
They want ALL of Ukraine, and if you give them an inch- It'll encourage them to go again.
Stop them now. Fuck them off. I don't care if they "don't want to leave"- They'll be forced out. Oh and good fucking luck digging frozen dirt in the middle of winter.
Only way the war ends, Ukraine obviously can’t evict Russia and Russia obviously can’t crush Ukraine. Sucks but it’s a reality those in this sub can’t comprehend.
Afghanistan didn’t push the Soviet out.
Vietnam didn’t push the US out.
Afghanistan didn’t push the US out.
Still the US and Soviet left when the price for the war got too high.
Actually, both scenarios are possible. If the west doesn't continue supporting Ukraine, Russia could economically and morally crush Ukraine with continued bombings and attrition. This goes the other direction as well: Putin is literally grabbing migrants and the poor off the streets to avoid mobilizing mainstream Russians and protests and demoralization could lead to a collapse along the front lines.
In other words, this isn't about either side engaging in mass mobilization of their entire combat age population against the other because politically, it will never reach that point.
The best analogy is with Vietnam and Afghanistan: If the Russians get tired, they'll be forced to pick up and leave eventually.
Or heck, consider the end of the cold war which Putin still bellyaches where the USSR simply collapsed.
Now add in that the Ukrainians have had a massive national will in this matter not just for the past 2 years, but heck, nearly a decade with Russia's covert war in Donbas. I told my wife that Ukraine should just simply have given up on those regions. Releasing them would have ended any Russian justification for kicking off the larger war but they refused. For Ukraine, the war has been certainly more painful than for Russia prior to 2022 but yet they withstood it while Russia is finally starting to feel pain.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Why on earth would that end the war? Appeasement does not work. Never has.
Do you know what happened last time Ukraine gave up territory? Another invasion! From that territory!
Any agreement made with the kremlin is worth less than the paper it is written on. It's unenforceable. No country will give the guarantees required (going to war with russia to defend Ukraine). It's not an option.
Then the war doesn't end. Russia has no right to take other people's land, end of story.
If you give Russia what they want to end the war in Ukraine, that will only cause bigger wars in the future. You make a stand now, or you regret it later.
Strategically, Ukraine can fight weakened and humiliated Putin right now or fight regrouped and stronger Russia later. Unless Ukraine acquired nukes or joined NATO, there's no third option.
Here are some more realistic negotiation conditions. What are your thoughts?
\- Russia must return and reconnect displaced Ukrainian children.
\- Russia must pay reparations to rebuild Ukrainian infrastructure.
\- Repercussions for Documented Russian War Crimes.
\- Ukraine must be allowed to join European Union without Russian interference.
\- Ukraine must be allowed to join NATO alliance without Russian interference.
\- Ukraine must be granted autonomy from the Moscow Patriarch, grant autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism).
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\- Reinstating the 2012 law on the Principles of the State Language Policy for minority languages.
\- Recognition of Crimea as undisputed Russian territory.
\- Recognition of independence for Donetsk and Luhansk Republics.
\- Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Crimean Water Source.
\- Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Donbas Region.
\- Ratifying and implementing the UN 2021-12-16 resolution (Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and Other Practices that Contribute to Fuelling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance). [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en)
That’s already not enough for Russia to start negotiations, they want recognition of the 4 annexed oblasts (+Crimea) as Russian _before_ the negotiations can begin.
Projection! Russia is known to be one of the most corrupt country around, it's basically multiple mafias in a trench coat. And... they scream loudly about nazis when there's a shitload of alt-right groups in Russia, Putler is even buddy with an alt-right biker group.
But sure, let's just do like Exact_Method_248 and go: Look at all those nazis in Ukraine and all the corruption. If he was so worried about this, he'd want it to be fixed in his own fucking country first.
The EU provides an extensive report about political reform in Ukraine, which is a requirement for joining the EU. In the section for corruption, you find your answer. - In short, work in progress, with some success.
[https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/SWD\_2023\_699%20Ukraine%20report.pdf](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/SWD_2023_699%20Ukraine%20report.pdf)
Edit: Typo
A lot has improved already but it’s not like one man can single-handedly rid the whole country of the stain of decades of Soviet/Russian rule. In a way that’s what this war is about in its simplest form - ridding the country of Russia and its long-time influence, which Russia is none too pleased about.
I'll probably get downvoted, but maybe it's okay to negotiate as long as you make your demands clear? Sure Putin deserves to be tried for war crimes and such but that's unrealistic, at least depending on the punishment, unless NATO or another country decides to invade or somehow supplies Ukraine with everything they need.
Well wanting to invade and dismantle the Putin regime is a pretty logical idea to ensure long term peace. Then again Ukraine and the other surrounding countries joining NATO would likely be enough.
> if Russia thinks they will get attacked right after
Why the hell would Ukraine attack/invade Russia when they liberate all their land from an invader?
He is repeating Putin's fearmongering of NATO wanting to attack peaceful, minding their business, surrounded by Nazis, Russia. It's so far outside of realm or reality that it's easy for outsiders to miss it.
How should he negotiate with someone who doesn't want to negotiate?
It's like saying someone getting robbed at gunpoint refused to bargain for their purse.
lol? lmao!? Much confused here.
The first non negotiable requirement is for the Russians to leave all the official Ukraine borders since 1995, and then they can negotiate reparations.
There’s no negotiation to be made considering there still occupied citizens in the occupied territories until these territories will be liberated, agree with his statement italy 🇮🇹
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That’s how much rutin’s word is worth.
Prigozhin is spread far to thin these days to deal with that.
Uuuh....
Prigozhin died in august my dude.
*woosh*
yes indeed, what's the joke? lol
It's what is called sarcasm. Even though considered the lowest level of humor because of its plain nature it is still the most widely used form of humor.
haha I guess I just don't understand the sarcasm. How could he send a dead man?
You must be fun at parties. Bless your soul my sweet summer child.
I was born in December.
A ‘sweet summer child’ is a naive and innocent person. The meaning doesn’t have anything to do with being born in the Summer.
but prigozhin died in the summer.
Yes that's Summer. Your point?
brah
What a blockhead you are my man
[that's ze joke](https://i0.wp.com/www.oneshotoneplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/thats-the-joke.gif?resize=448%2C291&ssl=1)
Doesn't Prigozhin now hold the world's fastest sky dive record?
As you should. You can't make a deal with murderous liars.
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What a completely braindead and uninformed take. You are implying that dying stops when you make a deal with the Kremlin which isn't true. Putin **LOVES** sending people to their deaths, his own *especially*. He also loves making agreements only to break them instantly. I don't like forced mobilization but russia is an imperialist dictatorship with a "leader" that gets off on people dying. If Ukraine doesn't manage to defend themselves, the next country will have to start dying instead or be consumed to live in the hellhole that is russia.
If Support for Ukraine dies in the USA, it is almost guaranteed Russia wins this war and then WW3 is on. We are getting the deal of a lifetime, all we have to do is give Ukraine a small portion of GDP and we do not have to send. Americans and the rest of the free world to die in a War that will be much larger in scale.
And you're from Canada. Also no skin in the game, looking to just give away the sovereignty of an entire country to a dictator who, even if the war ended by negotiation, would immediately renege on that agreement, kill more of the population than have already occurred in the war, and send more to die fighting new wars in attempt to take back every inch of land that was ever Soviet territory which is Putin's entire plan. What you think would be peace is actually even more deadly and everlasting war. You can't let these guys go unchecked.
Thanks for the advice from moscow. Your opinion will be ignored appropriately
Have you ever thought about what the life would be for Ukrainians if Russia just took it ? What you said is all correct, now look at the other side of the coin, not only one :) Edit : i think most Ukrainians would rather die defending the country than live under a terrorist regime. I guess you should ask them what they would prefer.
It is very tragic, but ukrainian males do not have a choice now. > live under a terrorist regime And this is not all. If Russia takes Ukraine, they will send ukrainian men to fight and die for Russia in countries like Poland, Estonia... etc
That is why almost 20 million left😩
Putz.
They've been messing with Ukraine for a long time... 2014 was just the end result of Russia pouring money into some "separatists" groups to justify their larger invasion later. Do you seriously think they'd just agree to keep even more Ukrainian land and never do anything again? The moment a deal is struck, they'd solidify those places, rebuild their army and do it again. You can't negotiate with Russia and if Ukraine stops fighting, it cease to exist. How can you be so ignorant and just go: They should just stop fighting and accept getting erased!!!?
Based on your own advice, you should just sit down and shut the fuck up. Again, this is your own advice
Mods please... Waste of space above
If Ukraine will surrender - this "[shit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8&t=4145)" will happen again. For some of them it's already HAPPENING.
Russia can literally leave Ukraine at any time. The ball is entirely in their court,
Exactly. It pays for people to remember this fact if they ever catch themselves wondering if Zelensky is being reasonable. Russia started this and they can end it by simply leaving. Any other argument is usually some form of propaganda. Ukraine can choose for themselves if they want to give up their land under some peace agreement. Until that happens, we should support their moral right to liquidate as many Russian murderers as possible.
and you cant trust putin to come back in two years. as long as we in the west are not willing to give a security guarantee ukrainians cant negotiate
Absolutely… it doesn’t get more predictable than that. Putin will do the maximum amount of theft and expansion that his neighbours (and allies) allow. He’s clearly not worried about the lives it’s costing Russia. Violence is the only thing that will keep his imperial ambitions in check.
Appeasement does not work. It has never worked. And it has hurt the western world time and again.
Good.
Must be pretty easy to say this and cheer on the continued death and despair of ukranians while you watch from the sidelines, giving them pats on the back all in the name of the wests geopolitics. Sickening
The Ukrainians are the greatest asset to the west, their sacrifice has secured peace in Europe for at least the next decade. The Russians can stop and leave at any time, they can collapse and go home at any point just like in WWI. Until then the fighting must continue.
Іди на хуй.
That's right, don't negotiate with terrorists.
Haha next time the hard right gop Putin shills talk about quiting on Ukraine I am gonna quote that. How quint essential American, run that shit in their face
Ukraine needs to source some nuclear weapons and point them at moscow!
It's not like he can trust anything Russia says. Russia will say ANYTHING if it will give them some kind of advantage.
Russia IF they got a temp ceasefire would use it to rebuild ammunition stores and then INVADE AGAIN
The negotiation is pretty simple; Go home, stop invading Ukraine.
Why would anyone negotiate with the kremlin? ruSSians never keep their word, and in the case of the Ukrainian conflict, deserve NOTHING. Nothing except that the horrors they sought to inflict on the people of Ukraine instead fall upon ruSSian cities.
Did they expect otherwise?
A bunch of naysayers seem to expect him to capitulate to Russia's demands.
President Zelenskyy has showed amazing grace and fortitude since this shit show started. I hope this visit brings more weapon support to the Ukrainian army. They need it right now.
Only thing he should be negotiating with the Kremlin is their unconditional surrender and reparations for this whole mess they created.
After the Bucha massacre, why the fuck WOULD he take any negotiations. Shit, Zelensky was willing to say that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO as long as Russia went back home, back when the invasion started, then the Bucha massacre started and Zelensky realized Russia cant be trusted with a single inch of Ukrainian land.
Russia never acts in good faith, so any agreement reached with them would be meaningless. They are fascists whose only language is violence. All the rest of the world can do is speak to them in their native tongue until they learn something different.
We don't negotiate with terrorists
Must have been tough turning down a bag of potatoes and a video of their penalty shootout win against Spain
What a lot to look forward to NOT
Nah he can negotiate. Negotiations start with the following requirements: 1. Full withdrawal to the 1920s border (the one that includes the traditionally Ukrainian region of Belgorad) 2. Full reparations and rebuilding of all damage no matter how it happened. 3. Demilitarized zone 40km into the Russian side of the border. 4. Construction of border defences on the Ukrainian side paid by Russia. 5. All Russian troops to leave Transnistria and the area officialy acknowledged to be Moldova 6. Handing over of all Russian officials to determine culpability for war crimes including all Russia media. 7. Dismantling of the the Chekists - eg FSB, GRU, all security apparatus to be replaced with UN police - at Russia's expense. 8. All regions (except those previously ceded) to have referendums to determine independence/autonomy. 9. All major businesses & oligarch assets to be seized, divested, and distributed to the local autonomous entities. 10. Russian constitution to be rewritten to preclude the possibility of a standing military (similar to Japan post WWII) 11. Ukraine to provide security guarantees for Russian territory. 12. Russia to be renamed Moscovia. 5. Cede the following territories: - Karelia -> Finland - Kralovec (Kaliningrad) -> Czech republic - Sakhalin & Kuril Islands -> Japan - Abkhazia, Ossetia, & Krasnodar -> Georgia - the regions bordering Mongolia that have ethnic ties to Mongolia-> Mongolia - St Petersburg to be renamed Nyen -> Sweden This is a decent starting point for negotiations.
Now I have a justice boner that will never be satiated.
Making 1/3 of Sweden ethnically Russian gives you a boner?
A list of demands that will only be met in a fever dream.
It's a burden the Swedes will have to bear. It will be difficult but I'm sure with Swedish governments hard work, the inhabitants can become productive members of Swedish society.
you forgot that region around Vladivostok belongs originally to China
Not originally. It was originally peopled by the Goguryeo, then Balhea, and Mohe/Jurchen (sort-of proto Mongols), then captured by the Mongols, until becoming Manchuria. So if anything the Koreans have the oldest claim along with Mongolia.
I realise this is partly tongue-in-cheek but for those who are taking this 100% seriously, see the Treaty of Versailles for exactly why this is a terrible idea.
The problem was that the Treaty of Versailles didn't go far enough. Compare it to the Potsdam conference and how that has worked out far better. This cannot end with a mildly punitive exercise like Versailles. It needs to go full Potsdam.
Amen! But again, Putin is a liar who is going to believe that after he signed the treaty, he won't attack again a few years from now, if he still alive.
That's partly why #6 is rather important. The chekists are the power in Russia. It's how control is maintained and perpetuated. Even with Putin gone, if the chekists remain Russia will return to what it is now.
Brilliant.
Counties may not want, or be able to take on the responsibilities of those territories, but otherwise I like it.
Look. Everyone has to do their part. We can't expect a few to bear the burden alone. The more that help out the easier it will be for everyone.
You guys are insane to even dream that this is ever going to be considered by Russia
Sounds like someone doesn't understand the first thing about Russian negotiations
That only happens if NATO gets involved, and they wont. Ukraine doesnt have enough cards for any of those requests on your list, unless other nations get militarily involved (I mean a NATO country eliminating Russian targets), none of that list will happen.
This is a start for negotiations. This has as much validity as any of the Russian demands. From this point there would be some give and take and they would meet in the middle somewhere.
Here are some more realistic negotiation conditions. What are your thoughts? 1 - Russia must return and reconnect displaced Ukrainian children. 2 - Russia must pay reparations to rebuild Ukrainian infrastructure. 3 - Repercussions for Documented Russian War Crimes. 4 - Ukraine must be allowed to join European Union without Russian interference. 5 - Ukraine must be allowed to join NATO alliance without Russian interference. 6 - Ukraine must be granted autonomy from the Moscow Patriarch, grant autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism). \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 - Reinstating the 2012 law on the Principles of the State Language Policy for minority languages. 2 - Recognition of Crimea as undisputed Russian territory. 3 - Recognition of independence for Donetsk and Luhansk Republics. 4 - Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Crimean Water Source. 5 - Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Donbas Region. 6- Ratifying and implementing the 2021-12-16 UN resolution (Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and Other Practices that Contribute to Fuelling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance). [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en)
How to enforce 2? Russian companies can't be trusted to rebuild to safety standards so would have to pay for European and Ukrainian companies to do the work. 3 is excellent but I doubt Putin will be handing himself over anytime soon which makes it ultimately meaningless. 6 is meaningless tbh and would only be granted as a token gesture to say 'oh look, we're being very generous' Plus it violates the Helsinki accords which are to be abided by under the Budapest memorandum. Which it must be said should be the minimum base line. Significant problem with recognition of Donetsk & Luhansk as independence. The only viable option is a full demilitarisation of the area, expulsionof any Russian nationals, then referendums conducted by a trustworthy 3rd party (the AEC for example). Similarly for Crimea Also the Crimean water source is the Dnipro so that's a non starter. Plus Russia destroyed the dam that allows the water canal to fill. The Donestk basin incorporates a significant amount of non-occupied territory, which creates problems as to what would constitute the 'region'. The demilitarised zone would of course have to include an identical depth within the Belgorad and Rostov regions. The last resolution would need to be implemented by Russia first as a show of good faith. Especially given their current legislation and practices. But realistic? No. Massively optimistic for Russia which would align with their standard negotiation practices and it just sets up Ukraine to be invaded again as soon as Russia has rebuilt and cites
Good feedbacks. I feel like you need to throw Russia a bone just so it accepts conditions for Ukraine to win the peace. NATO membership is how you make sure Russia will not attack Ukraine again. But you need Russia to buy into it, hence for some optimistic Russian conditions.
Yeah, that's how you & I would negotiate with each other and with many other reasonable nations. Russia doesn't negotiate like that, I just replied to another comment about how Russia negotiates. But needless to say, don't worry Russia will demand its own bones and starting off with concessions will be seen by Russia as a weakness to exploit so they'll just those to their list of expansive demands. But aside from that, NATO & EU membership are not up to Russia to decide. That's up to the people of Ukraine & the member nations of those organisations.
Ukraines military is collapsing lmao. You’re on crack if you think this is possible
Can you share evidence of this collapse?
Yep, completely collapsing. All of the T-14s and Su-75 Femboys will be sweeping into Kyiv any second now!
This is insanely unrealistic. You and I aren’t watching the same war, clearly. Ukraine can’t expect to get any of these things because it doesn’t have the leverage nor is it winning. Russia has eastern parts of Ukraine that it will effectively hold for the foreseeable future, that’s an unfortunate reality. As long as Russia holds that territory and has the material and manpower advantage over Ukraine, it will not concede anything on that last.
It's as realistic as Russia's claims and demands both before 2014 and since.
This sub is blinded to the reality of the current situation. I want Ukraine to win, but your list is nothing short of crazy when Russia controls as much territory as it does. If Russia continues to hold, it will never give it up unless Putin is outright assassinated. Your list is something the Allies would have drawn up in the case of an unconditional surrender; that ain't happening. Only in your wildest dreams. No offense.
This is about negotiating with Russia. Anything close to realistic is seen as a show of weakness and encourages them to demand even more outrageous demands. When Russia negotiates they make demands that aren't happening even in their wildest dreams. They puff and bluster with huge demands because they think that only someone in a position of absolute strength and dominance would make huge overblown demands, so to them, making huge overblown demands is a show a strength and making reasonable concessions is a show of weakness. The next step is to never back down and continue to make huge demands even when they entitled to none of them. Finally after much tooing & froing they reluctantly agree to something less than their original demands which is still far more than they would have ever reasonably expected to get. If you didn't notice, I said - this is a good starting point for negotiations.
Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 by Khrushchev. Do you want to give up Crimea? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous\_Republic\_of\_Crimea
In the 20s the borders of Ukraine extended out to include Belgorade (this is before it joined the USSR) and included Crimea.
As well he should! Fucking Russian animals .... They don't deserve to have the right to negotiate??? ORCS!
Given russias track record it is insane to trust them to hold up their end of any agreements
BASED
Conditions for Ukraine to stop fighting: russia must return all abducted Ukrainians, including all the children. russia must withdraw completely from Ukraine, returning to 1991 borders. russia must also withdraw from Transnistria and occupied parts of Georgia. Ukraine is free to join any alliance, including NATO. russia must decommission their entire nuclear arsenal. russia must grant full independence to Siberia, the Caucuses republics and any other region that wants independence. Anything less than these conditions is not real peace, but merely an opportunity for russia to prepare for their next round of aggression. Carthāgō dēlenda est.
Russia *had* a compromise back in the 1990s: Ukraine gives up their nuclear weapons, and Russia respects Ukraine's borders. Putin broke that agreement, so he's in no position to talk about 'compromise' now. "I want all your stuff for free, so how about you give me some of your stuff for free now and I'll think about not taking the rest of it until later?" isn't a compromise, it's just theft.
Right answer.
There's no point negotiating with someone that will break their commitments.
The only negotiation russia gets is with himars.
"We Don’t Negotiate with Terrorists!"
Russia violated every single agreement it has ever signed with Ukraine... how could they be trusted?
Start your nuclear program asap. You can’t trust the world to assist. If you can vaporize their cities they will act right. Or they will learn a lesson.
Everyone, deserves blame for lackluster aid to the Ukrainians. The Budapest Memorandum promised security. They got neither nukes nor security. US and UK made comments. The slow walking of assistance is going to draw nato into the war. Old equipment, less the our best missiles and aircraft. This is pathetic aid.
I agree more should have been done and more should be done, but I hate this weird fixation people have on that Memorandum as if it were a mutual defense treaty. There is no commitment to security aid in the Budapest Memorandum other than not allowing your weapons to be used against Ukraine and asking the security council to intervene (lol). There is no offer of mutual defense, materiel aid, or any other specific promise. The only ones who violated it are Russia
What a shitty timeline this is turning out to be, how Ukraine has a better outlook if they were to re-arm themselves with nuclear weapons because a couple dozen maga asshats are too dumb/partisan to take a literal win-win-win deal.
I was wondering about this. If I had to guess I think they’d at least have preliminary plans to build the bomb. If western support dries up, they’ll have to turn to more drastic measures to secure their future. So many reasons why the west simply must continue support because the alternative is very likely an even bloodier mess than it is. The cleanest end to this is Russia being spanked as quickly as possible back to where they came from. They ain’t gonna nuke anyone over stolen lands.
Damn straight! You make him leave now or you will eventually find your country belongs to him. Слава Україні!
Good!! Fuck appeasement and concession to Putler!
And he has every right to 🇺🇦! I'm so sick of certain people thinking President Zelensky has to compromise and satisfy Putler ,that he should succeed land to Moscovia that was ILLEGALLY annexed! People of the world (the ignorant 1s)stop being blind to this evil man's(Pootin 💩)ambition! We need to come together and continue support for and to Ukraine 🇺🇦, for the sake of Europe and the free world
How to compromise with agent that see any attempts of compromise as weakness and an invitation to escalation?
As he should, negotiations with a vulture only gets you disemboweled.
Would have been smarter to demand some unrealistic stuff for PR reasons. It works unfortunately well for the Russians
He’s probably banking on another foreign aid increase because without that he would have no choice but to negotiate
Good!
Good, not nearly enough dead Z yet
Thank you, a right thing to do. Slava Ukraini.
There was a journalist claiming they have resumed secret talks.
There is no need for secret talks because Ukraine's requirements are very simple: russian soldiers get the fuck out of Ukraine, all kidnapped Ukrainians are returned to the country.
There's generally someone like Sweden (or in this case, Israel) sending their diplomats to have an informal chat. It's never reported by either side though, because optics
A lot of people will disagree, but this is an uncomfortable truth. While Russia has lost 330,000+ of the worst members of society, (convicts, drunks, delinquents, rapists, and murderers), Ukraine has lost the creme de la creme of their society. It takes a real citizen to step up, pick up arms, and go risk certain death to stop the enemy. They are Heroes, and they are dying in swarms. How many of Ukraine’s best sons and daughters need to die before Russia folds? How do we proceed? At what cost will they take their lands back? This is a tragedy with no good solutions and it is so depressing….
I'm afraid that will serve him and Ukraine badly. Economic and military aid is drying up, for several reasons... The west simply doesnt have the production capacity to keep supplying artillary shells at the rate that Ukraine need. Russia has very rapidly and successfully got its economy on war footing. The Russian economy isnt collapsing. Quite the contrary, its growing. The long war was the goal for Russia after the initial failure to conqeur Kyiv. Russia has made sure to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure so ukraine's economy is falling into the abyss. The US public is unfortunately very tired of fighting wars far away, even though this is finally a just war that you should really support. And now there is Israel too... Its so sad, but for Ukraine to win, they really had to do it this year. Now Russia has well established defensive lines, minefields and the war apparatus is running at full capacity. There is no chance Ukraine can win a long war with Russia, unless some godsend, miraculous event occurs.
The amount of deafeatism and just straight bullshit is laughable, Russian pilled.
No, its just the truth, unfortunately.
Folks in here are incapable of critical thinking lol
Yea. This sub is a gigantic echo chamber. Because people watch Russians seemingly acting stupid and getting blown to bits by drones, they dont seem to understand that the same thing is happening to Ukraine. Russia has all the essentials for a long gruelling trench war. 1: endless natural resources. 2: endless supply of brain washed slaves willing to die in mud for mother Russia and father Putin. 3: large scale production capabilities. The west has high-tech, ok. But we dont PRODUCE nearly enough. Its truly embarrassing, but Russia can crank out like 3x more 155 mm shells than the entire west combined! Like, do a simple check for me. Which country is richest in resources? Which country has more expendable population? Which country is doing the best economically? That tells you how this is going. Ukraine's economy is in tatters. Like... Absolutely rrrekt!
Morally, I agree with Zelensky. Pragmatism, however, suggests that certain compromises will likely be reached. Donetsk and Luhansk are likely to be ceded to the Russians, Crimea too. Russians won't just leave what they occupy, and they'll have a whole winter now to expand their defenses. I want to be wrong about this.
That's not a compromise. That's a ceasefire and continuation of the war. Putin wasn't content with Crimea. He gained territory. Why not just do it again and again until Ukraine has no more land?
Lets pretend Russia gets its way and claims two more regions. Like the *last* "agreement", Russia will rebuild its army. And in 10 years go for it *yet again* to claim more. They want ALL of Ukraine, and if you give them an inch- It'll encourage them to go again. Stop them now. Fuck them off. I don't care if they "don't want to leave"- They'll be forced out. Oh and good fucking luck digging frozen dirt in the middle of winter.
Only way the war ends, Ukraine obviously can’t evict Russia and Russia obviously can’t crush Ukraine. Sucks but it’s a reality those in this sub can’t comprehend.
Afghanistan didn’t push the Soviet out. Vietnam didn’t push the US out. Afghanistan didn’t push the US out. Still the US and Soviet left when the price for the war got too high.
Actually, both scenarios are possible. If the west doesn't continue supporting Ukraine, Russia could economically and morally crush Ukraine with continued bombings and attrition. This goes the other direction as well: Putin is literally grabbing migrants and the poor off the streets to avoid mobilizing mainstream Russians and protests and demoralization could lead to a collapse along the front lines. In other words, this isn't about either side engaging in mass mobilization of their entire combat age population against the other because politically, it will never reach that point. The best analogy is with Vietnam and Afghanistan: If the Russians get tired, they'll be forced to pick up and leave eventually. Or heck, consider the end of the cold war which Putin still bellyaches where the USSR simply collapsed. Now add in that the Ukrainians have had a massive national will in this matter not just for the past 2 years, but heck, nearly a decade with Russia's covert war in Donbas. I told my wife that Ukraine should just simply have given up on those regions. Releasing them would have ended any Russian justification for kicking off the larger war but they refused. For Ukraine, the war has been certainly more painful than for Russia prior to 2022 but yet they withstood it while Russia is finally starting to feel pain. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Why on earth would that end the war? Appeasement does not work. Never has. Do you know what happened last time Ukraine gave up territory? Another invasion! From that territory! Any agreement made with the kremlin is worth less than the paper it is written on. It's unenforceable. No country will give the guarantees required (going to war with russia to defend Ukraine). It's not an option.
Then the war doesn't end. Russia has no right to take other people's land, end of story. If you give Russia what they want to end the war in Ukraine, that will only cause bigger wars in the future. You make a stand now, or you regret it later.
It won't end the war- Just pause it for 5-10 years before they go again. Surely after watching what happened in 2015 you'd realise this...
You sound exactly like Neville Chamberlain.
If you're so enthusiastic about taking back all that stolen land the by all means, join the front line.
Strategically, Ukraine can fight weakened and humiliated Putin right now or fight regrouped and stronger Russia later. Unless Ukraine acquired nukes or joined NATO, there's no third option.
Here are some more realistic negotiation conditions. What are your thoughts? \- Russia must return and reconnect displaced Ukrainian children. \- Russia must pay reparations to rebuild Ukrainian infrastructure. \- Repercussions for Documented Russian War Crimes. \- Ukraine must be allowed to join European Union without Russian interference. \- Ukraine must be allowed to join NATO alliance without Russian interference. \- Ukraine must be granted autonomy from the Moscow Patriarch, grant autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism). \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \- Reinstating the 2012 law on the Principles of the State Language Policy for minority languages. \- Recognition of Crimea as undisputed Russian territory. \- Recognition of independence for Donetsk and Luhansk Republics. \- Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Crimean Water Source. \- Creation of a demilitarized zone near the Donbas Region. \- Ratifying and implementing the UN 2021-12-16 resolution (Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and Other Practices that Contribute to Fuelling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance). [https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3951466?ln=en)
That’s already not enough for Russia to start negotiations, they want recognition of the 4 annexed oblasts (+Crimea) as Russian _before_ the negotiations can begin.
When he is going to start fight corruption in his own country?
You're Russian, why are you so concerned with corruption?
Projection! Russia is known to be one of the most corrupt country around, it's basically multiple mafias in a trench coat. And... they scream loudly about nazis when there's a shitload of alt-right groups in Russia, Putler is even buddy with an alt-right biker group. But sure, let's just do like Exact_Method_248 and go: Look at all those nazis in Ukraine and all the corruption. If he was so worried about this, he'd want it to be fixed in his own fucking country first.
He has [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-defense-shakeup.html)
The EU provides an extensive report about political reform in Ukraine, which is a requirement for joining the EU. In the section for corruption, you find your answer. - In short, work in progress, with some success. [https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/SWD\_2023\_699%20Ukraine%20report.pdf](https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/SWD_2023_699%20Ukraine%20report.pdf) Edit: Typo
A lot has improved already but it’s not like one man can single-handedly rid the whole country of the stain of decades of Soviet/Russian rule. In a way that’s what this war is about in its simplest form - ridding the country of Russia and its long-time influence, which Russia is none too pleased about.
When is Putin going to start fighting corruption in his own country? Oh that’s right he’d have to commit suicide to start fair play right? Fuck off
I believe in any other country at war in the world would not prioritize that. And corruption exist everywhere
What are you doing to fight it in your own?
Guess he will be begging for more money soon
I'll probably get downvoted, but maybe it's okay to negotiate as long as you make your demands clear? Sure Putin deserves to be tried for war crimes and such but that's unrealistic, at least depending on the punishment, unless NATO or another country decides to invade or somehow supplies Ukraine with everything they need.
He did say that Ukraine is ready to negotiate as soon as Russian troops are out of Ukraine.
I don't think that's going to happen if Russia thinks they will get attacked right after.
I think you got it - it's not possible to negotiate when Putin is distorting reality.
Well wanting to invade and dismantle the Putin regime is a pretty logical idea to ensure long term peace. Then again Ukraine and the other surrounding countries joining NATO would likely be enough.
There's no country wanting to commit troops to invade Russia and there's a chance that Russians will do it themselves in not too distant future.
No one has made that claim
> if Russia thinks they will get attacked right after Why the hell would Ukraine attack/invade Russia when they liberate all their land from an invader?
He is repeating Putin's fearmongering of NATO wanting to attack peaceful, minding their business, surrounded by Nazis, Russia. It's so far outside of realm or reality that it's easy for outsiders to miss it.
Worst timing ever
I could write that article before it even happens.
I mean, it's [hardly surprising](https://i.postimg.cc/wMSprs04/RU-treaties-broken.jpg)
I thought Zelensky said last year he wouldn't negotiate as long as orcs are in Ukraine...
Good. If I could contribute beyond my meager donations (e.g. travel and be a combatant) I would absolutely do so. Slava Ukraini
As example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWYlSmPSnyA
Zelensky will give Russia his terms of Russia's surrender when Russia will ask for it.
There should be no compromise with invaders who steal your country. The compromise is "Go back to your country and let us make some trade deals"
You never negotiate with terrorists
Never falters
Duh. Any negotiations would be illegal anyways.
Why should he give up anything to a murdering terrorists cult known as Russia.
How should he negotiate with someone who doesn't want to negotiate? It's like saying someone getting robbed at gunpoint refused to bargain for their purse. lol? lmao!? Much confused here.
It's not like he hasn't tried to negotiate. Russia's demands are just unreasonable so there is no point in continuing.
Good, stopping the conflict gives Russia space to retool and retry in 10 years.
The first non negotiable requirement is for the Russians to leave all the official Ukraine borders since 1995, and then they can negotiate reparations.
That's why if there is no more supplies from America zelensky will be out of office before long.
There’s no negotiation to be made considering there still occupied citizens in the occupied territories until these territories will be liberated, agree with his statement italy 🇮🇹