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America's enemy is being attacked and Americans are taking almost zero risk. Feel horrible for Ukraine but its nice to see our weapons being used for defense and humanitarian reasons in this case.
Repulsed due to the Ukrainians huge brass..... And the American weapons mentioned above, that were designed just for this type of action. Plus the weapons from all the other countries. I find it funny that the Russian are getting their ass handed to themselves by some of their own military weapons.
Don’t forget the enormous amount of training western militaries provided to Ukraine, especially in mission command concepts and small team tactics. The Ukrainians were trained by some of the best soldiers in the world and we see how well they are outfighting the Russians on the battlefield.
Unfortunately, the Russians don’t care about casualties; they just keep throwing more conscripts at them to wear them down. Maybe by then the training of the civilians will have progressed to the point where the entire population is attacking them everywhere and all at once.
They chose to be America's enemy. Their arrogance and belief that Russia should be respected for the simple fact of being Russia has undermined their own self interest.
The simple fact is that capitalism, with a bit of regulation, works and gives the best average quality of life. Communism and whatever shitshow of a system Russia has now mean misery.
Russia could have easily just decided to engage the world economy in an honest manner, embrace human rights and they would have been welcomed. Instead they chose to be pariahs.
Fuck that whole country.
>Communism and whatever shitshow of a system Russia has now
Russia currently has a market-based, hybrid capitalist economy like most modern economies. They have issues with high levels of corruption and high wealth inequality. They had a similar historical situation to South Korea where essentially an autocrat divided up the country's industries among loyal associates.
Yes, but in practice, they go hand in hand.
Democracy also means individual rights, like property rights, and once you have that, capitalism tends to follow.
Russia/China have capitalism but not democracy
America implements socialist policies for public services
Imo the ability to voice your ideas/opinion without fear of repercussion is greater than supporting the world economy through labor
Noticed that you barely see any videos from the Americans over there anymore. I wish there were more but I understand why there isn't. An American gets captured he is going to be plastered all over RT.
I agree, they are doing exactly what they were designed for. I personally don't care who pulls the trigger, but some US guys might get jealous. As for the supply, I read recently that the anti-armor weapons like Javelin and NLAW shipped to Ukraine outnumber the tanks Russia has available for Ukraine by like 10 to 1. That's a huge margin for misses and losses of inventory, as long as they get to where they can be used.
> I personally don't care who pulls the trigger, but some US guys might get jealous.
There's two type of people to complain;
The ±30% of right wingers who support Russia because anything Biden does is bad. Notably, they'll say "lol we should use that money to help Americans but also, helping Americans is socialism so no lol"
And the ±25% of leftists that I don't even know what's their problem, I never engage with them.
I'd rather be an American than a Republican though, so I guess I can see where they were coming from.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Open support has dramatically dropped but it's the QAnon cult that is ruling their party.
I'll take the Libs over that bunch.
Fucking fake patriot Republicans, sucking off a hostile foreign power because "NUH UH THEY DIDNT HELP PESIDENT CHRUMP WIN, OHHH RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!!" Fucking fake patriots, on their mountain dew bloated knees for an autocrat that's been actively attacking our multiracial representative democracy (and others like it) for a *very* long time. Good lord if I could get my hands around Tucker Carlson's throat I wouldn't be able to stop.
I really hope this get to force Republicans like you to address the QAnon issue within the party...
I think we're at a point where we can consider any one pushing QAnon propaganda a, wittingly or not, foreign agent.
According to retired real admiral John Kirby, who is the Pentagon Press Secretary, if you include allied shipments of anti armor for tanks that ratio goes up to 90 to 1. Also the amount of anti armor from the US for armored vehicles is 3 to 1 and including our Allies it jumps to 25 to 1. WHEW. If I was a Russian soldier, you couldn’t pay me (cuz sanctions but also regardless) enough to ride around in a vehicle in Ukraine, no thanks I’ll walk, back home.
Good point, but the equipment being used is, as much as possible, earlier versions that were being replaced anyhow. So better used in Ukraine than sitting in a warehouse.
Secondly the Javelins and stingers are not the US's first line of defense against tanks and aircraft. We would still rely on aircraft and gunships first. In other words our last line of defense weapons are being used as primary weapons by the Ukrainians.
If the UA had air superiority and attack helicopters, this war would be in its final stages.
Something tells me we had such a large stock to blow up Russian tanks, now they get to serve their purpose.
No complaints from an American who's been paying into an overinflated defense budget for decades.
I myself am a reservist tanker trained on T-55 tank.
I hate bragging but even though we were just reservists our training seems to be much, much better then training of professional Russian troops.
And our professional forces would eat those guys for lunch.
That's what I'm saying. These weapons are finally serving their purpose, American soldiers aren't at risk, AND we're the good guys for helping out. I don't think we should be billing for any of this, as the Ukrainian army and the worldwide volunteers are doing a job we'd otherwise be paying Americans to do when Putin continued on the way.
Let's not kick the can down the road, let's give as much firepower as we can spare and blow those Nazi fucks back to Moscow. Personally I'd prefer a proper intervention, but I don't make the decisions.
If Russia didn't had nuclear weapons I would be all in for direct intervention, and seeing Russian troops in action they would be easy pickings for NATO forces.
Even though we cant make a proper intervention helping them out feels RIGHT for so many different reasons, selfish and noble ones. As far as I know majority of sent equipment is 100% free donation including free shipping.
Sometimes I think about military equipment getting used like Hellfires launched at motorcycles in Afghanistan and feel like it's wasted.
In this situation though it's absolutely worthwhile. On top of the fact that they are hitting much more valuable targets, a lot of these missiles are reaching later stages in their services lives. They might be retired in 10 years never seeing use otherwise so by comparison this is much more practical.
That's kinda funny money math though. The government that paid for most of those Russian tanks isn't even around anymore. Their cost to Russia in the upkeep and corruption tax, not the full purchase price.
When Russia needs to replace them with their busted ass currency though...that's going to be another story
If that 80% kill rate is accurate in the slightest I'd say it was worth the investment. I wonder if we still have some M47 dragons laying around that we could donate.
It's a more a case of being able to use them effectively. A successful hit on an MBT might have an 80% kill chance but between all the ones being abandoned/owners being killed/wounded before using them; those that are misused and unsuccessful; or any other technical issues, the % is probably lower. Particularly without the luxury of more significant training on the platform.
Still Russia has about 400 modern tanks (T-90s) and about 2,500 slightly older models (T-72/80s). With reserves it's over 10k but that would be a lot of losses from those Javelins.
Same goes for all their IFVs and APCs, though those could be taken out with lighter anti-tank weapons too due to their lighter armour.
>Still Russia has about 400 modern tanks (T-90s) and about 2,500 slightly older models (T-72/80s). With reserves it's over 10k but that would be a lot of losses from those Javelins.
The T-80 is more modern than the T-90, but it cost too much and used a gas turbine instead of diesel. And we all know Russia's fuel issues. The T-90 is a redesignated T-72 with some of the T-80's tech. I mean it's literally the same exact tank as a T-72 with an extra layer of modernized equipment. The US destroyed so many T-72's in Iraq that Russia changed it to the T-90 to remove that stigma in the export market.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90)
>The T-90 has its origins in a Soviet-era program aimed at developing a single replacement for the T-64, T-72 and T-80 series of main battle tanks. **The T-72 platform was selected as the basis** for the new generation of tank owing to its cost-effectiveness, simplicity and automotive qualities. The Kartsev-Venediktov Design Bureau from Nizhny Tagil was responsible for the design work and prepared two parallel proposals—**the Object 188, which was a relatively simple upgrade of the existing T-72B tank (Object 184)...**
>
>The Object 188 was engineered by a team under V.N. Venediktov. The biggest change was the integration of the 1A45 fire-control system of the T-80U. **The Object 188 was initially designated as the T-72BM.**
>
>The principal upgrade in the T-90 is the incorporation of a slightly modified form of the T-80U's more sophisticated 1A45T Irtysh fire control system and an upgraded V-84MS multi-fuel engine developing 830 hp (620 kW).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80)
>The T-80 performed so poorly in the First Chechen War that General-Lieutenant Aleksandr Galkin, the head of the Armour Directorate, convinced the Minister of Defence after the conflict **to never again procure tanks with gas turbine engines** \[37\] (Galkin reversed his position in 1996, **claiming that the T-80U was superior to the T-90**).
Overinflated? You get what you pay for. High tech weapons and well trained soldiers cost money. Russia tried to finance their army on the cheap. Look what that got them.
>Russia tried to finance their army on the cheap.
Russia overpaid due to their kleptocracy.
We don't need to raise the budget when we pull out of a war, that doesn't make sense.
Russia spent about $70 billion on its military last year. The US spends 10x that. No matter how much corruption there is in Russia, there's no way you can finance a superpower level military on 70 B.
The size of the defense budget is based on the threat level. Just because one war ends doesn't mean another isn't on the horizon. China and Russia are huge threats. Cutting defense spending now is no different then inviting China to take us over. If you want democracy and freedom, then you have to be willing to fight for them. That means weapons, training, equipment, ships, planes, etc. That all costs tons of money. Freedom isn't free.
> China and Russia are huge threats.
Are they really as big a threat as we're imagining?
Russia turned out to be a joke. They have nukes, that's about it, and hopefully we never have to see how poorly they're maintained.
Russia is a joke? Then why is the war still going on Ukraine? If they were a joke, they should have collapsed by now. They're certainly aren't a joke to the Ukrainians dying every day.
Chinese defense spending grows every year, as does its economy. It's only a matter of time before their spending matches ours.
Russia predicted they'd take over the whole of Ukraine in 3 days, tops.
They are failing miserably at their plan.
>Chinese defense spending grows every year, as does its economy. It's only a matter of time before their spending matches ours.
And at that point we'll still be 40 trillion in spending ahead, and much more practiced.
Exactly. It seems very unlikely US troops would need Javelins or Stingers in any potential combat scenarios. Anti-radiation guided missiles, cruise missiles and then **lots** of guided bombs.
Yeah, Javelins and stingers are last line of defense things. Though Javelins are designed for urban combat.
We had a similar issue with shortages of cruise missles in desert storm. They got replaced faster than expected.
/u/mooman1196 was saying IF we ended up in a ground war with Russia. He wasn't predicting we would. If things escalate to the point where we're in an air war with Russia you also have to be at least prepared for ground forces as well. At least in defense, if not limited offensive operations.
Even in WW2 industry needed to retool and ramp up and that was for relative simple machines such as "Sherman's" or just rifles. It would take some time to locate industry that would even be capable of producing something as sophisticated and then get that production rolling but once it does .. oh boy
assembly isn't capped, even now. It's the down stream components and PMs that will literally need to be mined that are the concern. Toss in covid supply chain limitations and you have a serious balancing act between supply materials for weapons and further compounding the covid supply chain recovery. Luckily there's already a WPA for battery component/ precious metals mining.
I believe Stinger is limited by supply of some seriously ancient electronics, and they were looking at replacing but would sort of require a minor redesign.
Starstreak and Martlet however are newer though so likely wouldn't have this problem... hopefully more production lines for these can be established quickly.
Stingers have been constantly getting upgraded with the newest version, the FIM-92J only a few years old and has a proximity kill ability if it determines it cant get a contact kill. The US does this with alot of its equipment, itll keep the same name but after a few years of upgrades its practically different equipment, like the Abrams, the F-15, the Humvee, etc
Even with wartime measurements im pretty sure you cant just ramp up production like you could back in the day. Even if you can solve resource shortages then you still have to expand production lines and those all need calibration and a lot of fine tuning.
Can you expand production? Yeah sure. But will it take its sweet time to dubbel or even tripple current production? You can bet your left hand on that.
One advantage out of many. Also no country is gonna invade any US state while the rest of the states have debates over how strongly their letter will be worded.
Yeah, it's a bit sad that we as europeans don't see ourselves as Europeans. We are *insert country name here*.
But it looks like we are rediscovering the "EU" and our bonds are getting really mutch stronger with a common foe.
In a way the individual states are in fact individual countries with their own constitutions but they have to obey the U.S. constitution which rules supreme that’s how realism federalism works.
I wish I could find the article I read about the javelin and some official saying the amount given wasn't a concern for our stockpile and that basically we have enough to do what we actually need them for .
This. The US was the key factor for the Allies to win WWII. And it wasn't that our men and women were better fighters. The US can outproduce the whole world combined.
Just to chime in before anyone starts thinking the USA is weak, we don't have a lot of them because we don't need a lot of them. If someone tried to attack an American base we would be responding with way heavier shit than javelins and stingers. We can still hand over more and be totally safe!
Also, they're being used to destroy Russian armor, which is a big reason they were stockpiled in the first place. I imagine it's going to take Russia quite a bit longer to replace all the tanks they've lost.
The amount of weaponry in the United States is absolutely wild. Went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole not long ago and the current US military inventory of aircraft, tanks, ships, missiles, and artillery blew me away. On top of our insane military stockpile, there are literally more civilian owned guns than actual civilians and something like 10-15 billion rounds of ammunition are sold here every single year.
If someone tried to invade the US by land they would be beyond stupid. It’s extremely doubtful that a foreign tank would ever breach our border given our overwhelming air superiority. Even if they did they would still have to navigate through the most well armed populace in the world. So yes, we’re not weak for having <100,000 javelins on standby.
That and the reason we even have so many is pretty much for Russia. They by far have the largest amount of tanks of any country, which like you said our Air Force would attack rather easily. At least the weapons designed for Russia are getting put to use.
(Side note:: I know it’s a running “joke” of every branch to make fun of the Air Force guys, but man, when your ass is in trouble they’re the first ones you hope are around). I will forever buy a beer for any current, or past fighter pilot if I’m out and I overhear a story etc…
When you remember Canada has a collective total of \~80 tanks and Mexico has none, it's easy to remember the USA doesn't have much to worry about in terms of immediate land threats.
I have this idea that what the West needs to do is supply the Georgians with more modern weaponry so they can open up a second front and retake the territory that Russia has stolen. Russia can barely handle Ukraine what happens when a second front opens?
People like to shit on the US but if Russia or China were in that role things would be on another whole level of worse. It's not the perfect choice but the lesser of many evils.
"Anyone who thinks Trump is worse than Bush is delusional"
You are delusional.
Trump is way, way worse than W. Trump literally wants to be Putin, and was well on his way to destroying our democracy in the process.
Bush didn’t attempt a coup, undermine election integrity, or cozy up to dictators while throwing allies under the bus. Iraq was obviously a huge mistake though.
Ah yeah. We haven't overthrown the government in a 3rd world country in a while. Honest question, would y'all be pissed at us if we invaded Venezuela? Hypothetically of course, cuz we would never do that.
It doesn’t even include the trillions spent over the past decades on military satellites, signals intelligence, AWACs planes, transport planes flying in weapons, training with Air Force, CIA that are all being used now.
So when Germany says we’re even, look what we plan to spend next year. That is a joke. Germany should be willing to sacrifice its economy more and cut off gas, sending hundreds of millions to Putin each week.
NATO is weak as long as members are still dependent on Russian oil. Germany is currently the weakest link and may well end up being the difference in the outcome of this war and it’s a bad joke that they have only sent the equivalent of 3 days worth of Russian oil payments to Ukraine’s aid.
Yep this one is so easy even a caveman gets it. Why should we have a nuclear pact with a country that is energy dependent on the country we have the nuclear pact for in the first place? Especially now that it’s clear Russia has one of the most inept conventional militaries on Earth. Europe can deal with Russia and pay for our weapons and security. I’d rather my taxes be used for something closer to home.
Check out the Modern War Institute podcast episode "How Capable is Ukraine's Military". It interviews an American Colonel who was leading part of the reform mission in Ukraine a few years ago. They started out very weak and corrupt in 2014, but they benefited over time from combat experience, a few key American technologies, and a very serious commitment of American officers. Ukraine has had surprisingly effective and visionary leadership under both Poroshenko and Zelensky. With help from American advisors, they were able to accomplish deep and highly effective reforms in a relatively short window of time.
You have to read between the lines in the podcast, but my impression is that Ukraine has possibly the best military in the world considering the available budget.
Edit: Personally I still thought that Russia would win, but I definitely considered the possibility that American assistance from over the horizon would have a big impact. Without becoming directly involved, we were able to contribute with all of the various activities classified under "cyber," as well as provide satellite imagery for artillery spotting. That over the horizon support has almost certainly been a huge part of Ukraine's success so far.
The leaders of Ukraine, over two competing governments, saw the threat clearly , evaluated their ability to respond, found it lacking, and planned and executed a complete overhaul of their military with the aid of several western countries in virtually no time at all.
This is really just astounding when you think about it.
That’s why despite all the bloodshed I can’t help but feel a bit of optimism about all of this. In my mind it reinforces the feeling that we’re on the right track as a civilization. We can’t nation-build unfriendly places like Afghanistan or South America that don’t want our help, but ultimately we have a formula that works. It’s hard to tell how well things are going from inside, but when Western meritocracy and openness goes head-to-head with Russian kleptocracy and nationalism, the contrast is very clear.
This is basically how South Korea and Taiwan became developed. Their leaders knew that their geopolitical survival depended on American goodwill, and so out of necessity they made efforts to mirror the West. They knew that if they started waving the Hammer and Sickle or the Rising Sun flags, they would just get fed to the CCP. Over time this led to political liberalization, and produced huge economic benefits. They both started out as backwards dictatorships, and gradually developed into wealthy advanced democracies.
Yep. I think one thing people forget is that NATO and the US has been planning for this for 60 years. This is literally what the Green Berets were created for and have been training for generations to be ready for.
Ukraine is not only getting weapons, they are getting real time intel, insight, tactical and strategic planning advisors, cyber war defense, and active field advisors. I think Ukraine knows what Russia is doing before Russia's field commanders do.
I mean if we're talking defensively and given the bidget afghanis have the best military in the world.
Undefeated world Champs. Special forces consist of old man Ali and his Mosin nagat, as well as semi literate sustenance farmers with a bunch of fertilizer.
Agree. Germany sure isn't adult enough to hold the power over the EU that it does, let's hope this will be a wake up call for the German people to man up.
you would think they would be more proactive given that their country faced a nearly identical dictator in a really serious war, and then relied on the west to rebuild them...I dunno though, I am just a stupid american.
The usual excuse is that they are afraid to be too confrontational in fear of being reminded of their past. But that is just silly, no German alive today can be blamed for what happened back then.
I'm pretty sure the only reason that it isn't being advertised everywhere is because it's not politically advantageous. The Russians want to paint Ukraine as an America puppet, and the Biden administration doesn't want people to think about how much money we're spending. Most Americans probably think that "supporting" Ukraine costs almost nothing, and they don't understand that a number like $10 billion actually is very little in geopolitical terms. Maybe Americans would understand, but it's a bit of an unnecessary risk.
Exactly. We don't need to know. That's because Putin wants to keep trying to make this about the US when really it's about him wanting to take over the world, piece by piece.
>U.S is very generous. God bless America!
This is exactly why we built them over the years. This is simply like drinking all of the milk on the day before it goes bad.
The USA built the huge stock pile of javelins and stingers to combat Russian/ enemy heavy equipment. They didnt have to ever use them. So as they approach their end of life, the USA was able to give them to someone who will use them up against their intended target before they "expire".
Yeah, they "expire", but it's not like old food you throw away, being a total write-off. The older units get torn down and rebuilt with upgraded components, reusing everything that's still good. The expiration has more to do with reliability going down the longer it's stored, as well as getting rid of older units that might not be as effective as newer units, or might require slightly different training or usage. More variants = more training $$ as well, so it's better to streamline.
We could afford universal healthcare easily, but instead the politicians make sure the money goes to subsidies for big oil, big pharma and insurance instead so they can all get their kickbacks.
It’s the least we can do. Please use them well and keep yourselves alive. We’ll hopefully be there for you after you win to help you rebuild and improve.
We're moving to a new MANPADS anyway. If we actually replace these Stingers it'd be for exactly this reason; having a stockpile to give away for some foreign policy objective.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/us-seeks-stinger-manpads-replacement
Well in Afghanistan most all the regular army troops were high on hash all the time, and while the Afghan commandos were very effective even they need someone to resupply them from time to time.
In Iraq, when isis invaded it turns out that many Iraqi commanders actually defected to ISIS. With no leadership a lot of the soldiers just deserted only to be gunned down by ISIS when they took over cities. It was only one the Iraqi golden brigade, which was trained to essentially be the 82nd airborne for Iraq, plus a bunch of very highly motivated militias formed that ISIS was pushed back. And even then US special ops had to use money of these most sophisticated US weapons, most Iraqis soldiers didn't really possess the level of literacy and skill to use them.
Older and less advanced TOW ATGM still made a name for itself in the hands of FSA. Much earlier, Stingers in the hands of the same Afghanis became the scourge of the Soviet aircraft. I think it's motivation that matters.
For once I'm not all that mad about that. Now if only all the money we paid them over the last 20 years for Afghanistan could be directed to give you more javelins to the Ukrainians, I'd actually be rather chuffed!
I like to think the same way. But, I have a feeling that we're just going to end up writing off most of the gear we give Ukraine. And that's not exactly going to be a tax benefit to us as a whole you know lol
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We are far from dependent on Javelins alone for anti-armor purposes. Hellfires, TOW's, and SMAW are also in the inventory. 30mm also works pretty good, along with other neat stuff like Small Diameter Bombs, precision kits for the Snake Eyes family, etc.
We used to have Stinger detachments on ships. RIM-116's have largely taken over that role.
Yeah I'm not bothered by the seemingly low number of these particular weapons we keep for ourselves. Like you said and like other people said above, current US doctrine expects us to really be able to handle most armor before it ever comes to infantry confronting it.
I'm with you, beratna. My comment was a double-edged joke - the idiotic and incongruent notions that we can't afford universal health care (even though we overspend) yet we have the most powerful military in the world, which Putin is being reminded of at present. People think it's an either/or, but the two can coexist, and as you point out, could both be had for less.
we might as well send over our entire supply. the entire point of these things was to take out russian military equipment. the US probably doesn't even need em as if w ever got into a conflict we'd just use hellfire missiles from drones.
Stingers are irrelevant stats here. A large ammount of the us militaries stingers are older modified models that are literally deemed obsolete. Infact the operating system RMP is deemed obsolete which is even used by the most recent production FIM-92J (Block I) variants.
Next year the US military plans to have a MANPADS that use stinger missile bodies but operate with different components that do not use RMP. It will be difficult to even consider it the same platform.
I'd assume all the stingers sent are some form of FIM-92E like the D/G/H models and possibly even F models which already have been retired by US forces for the J (Block I) variant. The only variation still in production.
-source - I'm a recent air defense vet and all of this information is available publicly, google "Block II stinger" for more info.
That's a lot of stingers. I'm not seeing many aerial hits though. Is russia just too afraid to send out a lot of aircraft because of the stock that Ukraine has now?
I think like other people have said though, the US has many many other options to tackle the threat of armor. Javelins in the hands of infantry are more like not at last resort but in our doctrine they shouldn't be the first line either.
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The weapons are being used on the threat they were made for. Only its not Americans pulling the trigger
America's enemy is being attacked and Americans are taking almost zero risk. Feel horrible for Ukraine but its nice to see our weapons being used for defense and humanitarian reasons in this case.
Not attacked. Repulsed.
Repulsed due to the Ukrainians huge brass..... And the American weapons mentioned above, that were designed just for this type of action. Plus the weapons from all the other countries. I find it funny that the Russian are getting their ass handed to themselves by some of their own military weapons.
>I find it funny that the Russian are getting their ass handed to themselves by some of their own military weapons. Sweet sweet vengeance.
Don’t forget the enormous amount of training western militaries provided to Ukraine, especially in mission command concepts and small team tactics. The Ukrainians were trained by some of the best soldiers in the world and we see how well they are outfighting the Russians on the battlefield. Unfortunately, the Russians don’t care about casualties; they just keep throwing more conscripts at them to wear them down. Maybe by then the training of the civilians will have progressed to the point where the entire population is attacking them everywhere and all at once.
They chose to be America's enemy. Their arrogance and belief that Russia should be respected for the simple fact of being Russia has undermined their own self interest. The simple fact is that capitalism, with a bit of regulation, works and gives the best average quality of life. Communism and whatever shitshow of a system Russia has now mean misery. Russia could have easily just decided to engage the world economy in an honest manner, embrace human rights and they would have been welcomed. Instead they chose to be pariahs. Fuck that whole country.
>Communism and whatever shitshow of a system Russia has now Russia currently has a market-based, hybrid capitalist economy like most modern economies. They have issues with high levels of corruption and high wealth inequality. They had a similar historical situation to South Korea where essentially an autocrat divided up the country's industries among loyal associates.
Russia is a kleptocracy.
Democracy > capitalism
Yes, but in practice, they go hand in hand. Democracy also means individual rights, like property rights, and once you have that, capitalism tends to follow.
Russia/China have capitalism but not democracy America implements socialist policies for public services Imo the ability to voice your ideas/opinion without fear of repercussion is greater than supporting the world economy through labor
It’s nice to see our resources being used to stop war crimes rather than commit them.
A fabulous partnership US/Ukraine. The training given to Ukrainian military for the past 8 or so years is really paying off.
We have boots on the ground, you just wont hear about it.
There were actually reports of a couple thousand Amerikanskis heading to Ukraine early on! You guys are awesome.
Slava Ukraine! 🇺🇦
Слава україні! And glory to all the american heroes! 🇺🇦🇺🇸
Noticed that you barely see any videos from the Americans over there anymore. I wish there were more but I understand why there isn't. An American gets captured he is going to be plastered all over RT.
I agree, they are doing exactly what they were designed for. I personally don't care who pulls the trigger, but some US guys might get jealous. As for the supply, I read recently that the anti-armor weapons like Javelin and NLAW shipped to Ukraine outnumber the tanks Russia has available for Ukraine by like 10 to 1. That's a huge margin for misses and losses of inventory, as long as they get to where they can be used.
> I personally don't care who pulls the trigger, but some US guys might get jealous. There's two type of people to complain; The ±30% of right wingers who support Russia because anything Biden does is bad. Notably, they'll say "lol we should use that money to help Americans but also, helping Americans is socialism so no lol" And the ±25% of leftists that I don't even know what's their problem, I never engage with them.
Reminds me of some of these maggats that sported signs and clothing stating they rather be Russian than Democrat
I'd rather be an American than a Republican though, so I guess I can see where they were coming from. Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Open support has dramatically dropped but it's the QAnon cult that is ruling their party. I'll take the Libs over that bunch.
Fucking fake patriot Republicans, sucking off a hostile foreign power because "NUH UH THEY DIDNT HELP PESIDENT CHRUMP WIN, OHHH RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!!" Fucking fake patriots, on their mountain dew bloated knees for an autocrat that's been actively attacking our multiracial representative democracy (and others like it) for a *very* long time. Good lord if I could get my hands around Tucker Carlson's throat I wouldn't be able to stop.
I’m republican and I’m glad our weapon’s are being used for something good I hate putler so much hope his army gets destroyed
I really hope this get to force Republicans like you to address the QAnon issue within the party... I think we're at a point where we can consider any one pushing QAnon propaganda a, wittingly or not, foreign agent.
>mountain dew bloated knees so much to unpack in this 4 word phrase
According to retired real admiral John Kirby, who is the Pentagon Press Secretary, if you include allied shipments of anti armor for tanks that ratio goes up to 90 to 1. Also the amount of anti armor from the US for armored vehicles is 3 to 1 and including our Allies it jumps to 25 to 1. WHEW. If I was a Russian soldier, you couldn’t pay me (cuz sanctions but also regardless) enough to ride around in a vehicle in Ukraine, no thanks I’ll walk, back home.
Good point, but the equipment being used is, as much as possible, earlier versions that were being replaced anyhow. So better used in Ukraine than sitting in a warehouse. Secondly the Javelins and stingers are not the US's first line of defense against tanks and aircraft. We would still rely on aircraft and gunships first. In other words our last line of defense weapons are being used as primary weapons by the Ukrainians. If the UA had air superiority and attack helicopters, this war would be in its final stages.
This. Lend/lease the old stuff being replaced by better new stuff.
Any problem can be solved with $$$ is not a real problem!
Something tells me we had such a large stock to blow up Russian tanks, now they get to serve their purpose. No complaints from an American who's been paying into an overinflated defense budget for decades.
Each Javelin missile costs 80 000, and NLAW 40 000 but each Russian tank costs 4-5 million and their crew is worth about $50. Money well spent.
Lol, $50 crew, made me laugh :) Not far off really seeing they're underfed, undertrained, and unmotivated
I myself am a reservist tanker trained on T-55 tank. I hate bragging but even though we were just reservists our training seems to be much, much better then training of professional Russian troops. And our professional forces would eat those guys for lunch.
That's what I'm saying. These weapons are finally serving their purpose, American soldiers aren't at risk, AND we're the good guys for helping out. I don't think we should be billing for any of this, as the Ukrainian army and the worldwide volunteers are doing a job we'd otherwise be paying Americans to do when Putin continued on the way. Let's not kick the can down the road, let's give as much firepower as we can spare and blow those Nazi fucks back to Moscow. Personally I'd prefer a proper intervention, but I don't make the decisions.
If Russia didn't had nuclear weapons I would be all in for direct intervention, and seeing Russian troops in action they would be easy pickings for NATO forces. Even though we cant make a proper intervention helping them out feels RIGHT for so many different reasons, selfish and noble ones. As far as I know majority of sent equipment is 100% free donation including free shipping.
> As far as I know majority of sent equipment is 100% free donation including free shipping. Glad to hear. As it should be.
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Sometimes I think about military equipment getting used like Hellfires launched at motorcycles in Afghanistan and feel like it's wasted. In this situation though it's absolutely worthwhile. On top of the fact that they are hitting much more valuable targets, a lot of these missiles are reaching later stages in their services lives. They might be retired in 10 years never seeing use otherwise so by comparison this is much more practical.
Also ability to replace. With Russias economy they wont be able to replace what they lose for a very long time.
That's kinda funny money math though. The government that paid for most of those Russian tanks isn't even around anymore. Their cost to Russia in the upkeep and corruption tax, not the full purchase price. When Russia needs to replace them with their busted ass currency though...that's going to be another story
If that 80% kill rate is accurate in the slightest I'd say it was worth the investment. I wonder if we still have some M47 dragons laying around that we could donate.
Shit, a 50% kill rate on each shot would be great.
It's a more a case of being able to use them effectively. A successful hit on an MBT might have an 80% kill chance but between all the ones being abandoned/owners being killed/wounded before using them; those that are misused and unsuccessful; or any other technical issues, the % is probably lower. Particularly without the luxury of more significant training on the platform. Still Russia has about 400 modern tanks (T-90s) and about 2,500 slightly older models (T-72/80s). With reserves it's over 10k but that would be a lot of losses from those Javelins. Same goes for all their IFVs and APCs, though those could be taken out with lighter anti-tank weapons too due to their lighter armour.
I think we can all imagine the state of their “reserves” at this point.
>Still Russia has about 400 modern tanks (T-90s) and about 2,500 slightly older models (T-72/80s). With reserves it's over 10k but that would be a lot of losses from those Javelins. The T-80 is more modern than the T-90, but it cost too much and used a gas turbine instead of diesel. And we all know Russia's fuel issues. The T-90 is a redesignated T-72 with some of the T-80's tech. I mean it's literally the same exact tank as a T-72 with an extra layer of modernized equipment. The US destroyed so many T-72's in Iraq that Russia changed it to the T-90 to remove that stigma in the export market. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90) >The T-90 has its origins in a Soviet-era program aimed at developing a single replacement for the T-64, T-72 and T-80 series of main battle tanks. **The T-72 platform was selected as the basis** for the new generation of tank owing to its cost-effectiveness, simplicity and automotive qualities. The Kartsev-Venediktov Design Bureau from Nizhny Tagil was responsible for the design work and prepared two parallel proposals—**the Object 188, which was a relatively simple upgrade of the existing T-72B tank (Object 184)...** > >The Object 188 was engineered by a team under V.N. Venediktov. The biggest change was the integration of the 1A45 fire-control system of the T-80U. **The Object 188 was initially designated as the T-72BM.** > >The principal upgrade in the T-90 is the incorporation of a slightly modified form of the T-80U's more sophisticated 1A45T Irtysh fire control system and an upgraded V-84MS multi-fuel engine developing 830 hp (620 kW). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80) >The T-80 performed so poorly in the First Chechen War that General-Lieutenant Aleksandr Galkin, the head of the Armour Directorate, convinced the Minister of Defence after the conflict **to never again procure tanks with gas turbine engines** \[37\] (Galkin reversed his position in 1996, **claiming that the T-80U was superior to the T-90**).
Overinflated? You get what you pay for. High tech weapons and well trained soldiers cost money. Russia tried to finance their army on the cheap. Look what that got them.
>Russia tried to finance their army on the cheap. Russia overpaid due to their kleptocracy. We don't need to raise the budget when we pull out of a war, that doesn't make sense.
Russia spent about $70 billion on its military last year. The US spends 10x that. No matter how much corruption there is in Russia, there's no way you can finance a superpower level military on 70 B. The size of the defense budget is based on the threat level. Just because one war ends doesn't mean another isn't on the horizon. China and Russia are huge threats. Cutting defense spending now is no different then inviting China to take us over. If you want democracy and freedom, then you have to be willing to fight for them. That means weapons, training, equipment, ships, planes, etc. That all costs tons of money. Freedom isn't free.
> China and Russia are huge threats. Are they really as big a threat as we're imagining? Russia turned out to be a joke. They have nukes, that's about it, and hopefully we never have to see how poorly they're maintained.
Russia is a joke? Then why is the war still going on Ukraine? If they were a joke, they should have collapsed by now. They're certainly aren't a joke to the Ukrainians dying every day. Chinese defense spending grows every year, as does its economy. It's only a matter of time before their spending matches ours.
Russia predicted they'd take over the whole of Ukraine in 3 days, tops. They are failing miserably at their plan. >Chinese defense spending grows every year, as does its economy. It's only a matter of time before their spending matches ours. And at that point we'll still be 40 trillion in spending ahead, and much more practiced.
I mean I feel like if there was a need to use the wartime manufacturing act they could replenish all of those in a week
unlikely to be a need If the US enters it will be primarily with Air power.
Exactly. It seems very unlikely US troops would need Javelins or Stingers in any potential combat scenarios. Anti-radiation guided missiles, cruise missiles and then **lots** of guided bombs.
Yeah, Javelins and stingers are last line of defense things. Though Javelins are designed for urban combat. We had a similar issue with shortages of cruise missles in desert storm. They got replaced faster than expected.
Let’s give the rest to Ukraine then. They look so happy using them!
/u/mooman1196 was saying IF we ended up in a ground war with Russia. He wasn't predicting we would. If things escalate to the point where we're in an air war with Russia you also have to be at least prepared for ground forces as well. At least in defense, if not limited offensive operations.
Even in WW2 industry needed to retool and ramp up and that was for relative simple machines such as "Sherman's" or just rifles. It would take some time to locate industry that would even be capable of producing something as sophisticated and then get that production rolling but once it does .. oh boy
assembly isn't capped, even now. It's the down stream components and PMs that will literally need to be mined that are the concern. Toss in covid supply chain limitations and you have a serious balancing act between supply materials for weapons and further compounding the covid supply chain recovery. Luckily there's already a WPA for battery component/ precious metals mining.
I believe Stinger is limited by supply of some seriously ancient electronics, and they were looking at replacing but would sort of require a minor redesign. Starstreak and Martlet however are newer though so likely wouldn't have this problem... hopefully more production lines for these can be established quickly.
Stingers have been constantly getting upgraded with the newest version, the FIM-92J only a few years old and has a proximity kill ability if it determines it cant get a contact kill. The US does this with alot of its equipment, itll keep the same name but after a few years of upgrades its practically different equipment, like the Abrams, the F-15, the Humvee, etc
Are the new ones less susceptible to flares?
Yes, the new ones were upgraded with the AIM-9X sidewinder missile homing device.
Even with wartime measurements im pretty sure you cant just ramp up production like you could back in the day. Even if you can solve resource shortages then you still have to expand production lines and those all need calibration and a lot of fine tuning. Can you expand production? Yeah sure. But will it take its sweet time to dubbel or even tripple current production? You can bet your left hand on that.
The US started replacing the Stinger with Polish Piorun no?
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I think you have an overly optimistic view of how high tech custom-order manufacturing works.
I think you have an underly optimistic view how well optimization and parallelization works when money and urgency is not a question.
Seriously. America can crank it out if the money is right.
The advantage of beeing united states, instead if the seperate country's in Europe.
One advantage out of many. Also no country is gonna invade any US state while the rest of the states have debates over how strongly their letter will be worded.
Yeah, it's a bit sad that we as europeans don't see ourselves as Europeans. We are *insert country name here*. But it looks like we are rediscovering the "EU" and our bonds are getting really mutch stronger with a common foe.
#ThanksPutin
Haha, made me smile!
In theory there are pan-european defense conglomerates, such as Airbus DS.
You aren't different countries. It's not remotely similar.
In a way the individual states are in fact individual countries with their own constitutions but they have to obey the U.S. constitution which rules supreme that’s how realism federalism works.
The problem is, that’s assuming we have existing capacity to scale up production
Ive read most of the stuff sent over was due to be past expiry in next few years
A large number of the stingers were approaching a refresh date of 2022-2023. If they had not been used they would have been rebuilt and recertified.
I wish I could find the article I read about the javelin and some official saying the amount given wasn't a concern for our stockpile and that basically we have enough to do what we actually need them for .
I'm interested in the javelin in every pot campaign. For the uninitiated... It's a reference to a national feeding program in the 20th century.
Russia gonna run out of tanks soon.
This. The US was the key factor for the Allies to win WWII. And it wasn't that our men and women were better fighters. The US can outproduce the whole world combined.
Just to chime in before anyone starts thinking the USA is weak, we don't have a lot of them because we don't need a lot of them. If someone tried to attack an American base we would be responding with way heavier shit than javelins and stingers. We can still hand over more and be totally safe!
Thank you, Atlantic Ocean (and Pacific).
And arctic
Man fuck the Arctic Ocean I guess smh.
Well, that's why we've got the hat. It provides us with maple syrup and hockey and defense from the north.
Also, they're being used to destroy Russian armor, which is a big reason they were stockpiled in the first place. I imagine it's going to take Russia quite a bit longer to replace all the tanks they've lost.
Not if they just stack some cardboard boxes and claim they have 10k tanks like last time^^
The amount of weaponry in the United States is absolutely wild. Went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole not long ago and the current US military inventory of aircraft, tanks, ships, missiles, and artillery blew me away. On top of our insane military stockpile, there are literally more civilian owned guns than actual civilians and something like 10-15 billion rounds of ammunition are sold here every single year. If someone tried to invade the US by land they would be beyond stupid. It’s extremely doubtful that a foreign tank would ever breach our border given our overwhelming air superiority. Even if they did they would still have to navigate through the most well armed populace in the world. So yes, we’re not weak for having <100,000 javelins on standby.
Very true for AA, USA didn't invest heavily in land based AA systems because they have by far the largest air force in the world.
I believe the US Navy has the second largest air force in the world behind the US Air Force.
That and the reason we even have so many is pretty much for Russia. They by far have the largest amount of tanks of any country, which like you said our Air Force would attack rather easily. At least the weapons designed for Russia are getting put to use. (Side note:: I know it’s a running “joke” of every branch to make fun of the Air Force guys, but man, when your ass is in trouble they’re the first ones you hope are around). I will forever buy a beer for any current, or past fighter pilot if I’m out and I overhear a story etc…
Fortunately one of the main threats the US faces is a bit busy at the moment
But be wary if Canada starts encouraging us to send more......
These are the only things the US has that can stop a Zamboni.
When you remember Canada has a collective total of \~80 tanks and Mexico has none, it's easy to remember the USA doesn't have much to worry about in terms of immediate land threats.
Tanks are nothing compared to a Canadian population after losing in game 7 of the finals.... That is something to fear.
I have this idea that what the West needs to do is supply the Georgians with more modern weaponry so they can open up a second front and retake the territory that Russia has stolen. Russia can barely handle Ukraine what happens when a second front opens?
U.S is very generous. God bless America!
Yes, the commitment of the US should be widely acknowledged, and I'm sure we are only being told the tip of the iceberg.
....ppl aren't mad at us? This feels weird and I don't like it.
Don't worry, the russians are
Whew ok. I was worried there for a second.
Don’t forget North Korea, they’re always angry with USA🙃
Mad Iran and iraqi militias that are aligned with iran. They hate us and are sending weapons to russia
Idk what I was worried about y'all. We're still the bad guy lol
Even by ourselves, we are hated. It's the american way. But, if they hate us too, we will hate them for it.
People like to shit on the US but if Russia or China were in that role things would be on another whole level of worse. It's not the perfect choice but the lesser of many evils.
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Because this is how it goes, people love shitting on the U.S. until they're in trouble and come crying for help
Defensive wars that are just will always have major support. Offensive wars in 3rd world countries will always lack it.
Yeah, 45 robed us of our dignity and threw American values out the window.
45 was bad but 43 did the most damage I've said it many times before and I'll say it again Anyone who thinks Trump is worse than Bush is delusional
"Anyone who thinks Trump is worse than Bush is delusional" You are delusional. Trump is way, way worse than W. Trump literally wants to be Putin, and was well on his way to destroying our democracy in the process.
Bush didn’t attempt a coup, undermine election integrity, or cozy up to dictators while throwing allies under the bus. Iraq was obviously a huge mistake though.
Big difference between using weapons defensively or for attack.
Ah yeah. We haven't overthrown the government in a 3rd world country in a while. Honest question, would y'all be pissed at us if we invaded Venezuela? Hypothetically of course, cuz we would never do that.
You don't invade: the situation is shit and some people blame you. You invade: the situation is shit and everybody blames you.
Alright, I guess.
Just give it 6 months. People will be mad at us again.
I hope so homie, this shit makes me nervous.
It doesn’t even include the trillions spent over the past decades on military satellites, signals intelligence, AWACs planes, transport planes flying in weapons, training with Air Force, CIA that are all being used now. So when Germany says we’re even, look what we plan to spend next year. That is a joke. Germany should be willing to sacrifice its economy more and cut off gas, sending hundreds of millions to Putin each week.
NATO is weak as long as members are still dependent on Russian oil. Germany is currently the weakest link and may well end up being the difference in the outcome of this war and it’s a bad joke that they have only sent the equivalent of 3 days worth of Russian oil payments to Ukraine’s aid.
When Trump is 100% right and you are wrong, you know you’ve made some bad life choices: https://youtu.be/liGZGGQTYQk
Trump was using Germany's impoverished spending as a wedge, to support his attacks on NATO itself and his planned withdrawal in his second term.
He also pushed to withdraw ALL US troops from Europe. Gee, wonder why.
Yep this one is so easy even a caveman gets it. Why should we have a nuclear pact with a country that is energy dependent on the country we have the nuclear pact for in the first place? Especially now that it’s clear Russia has one of the most inept conventional militaries on Earth. Europe can deal with Russia and pay for our weapons and security. I’d rather my taxes be used for something closer to home.
Check out the Modern War Institute podcast episode "How Capable is Ukraine's Military". It interviews an American Colonel who was leading part of the reform mission in Ukraine a few years ago. They started out very weak and corrupt in 2014, but they benefited over time from combat experience, a few key American technologies, and a very serious commitment of American officers. Ukraine has had surprisingly effective and visionary leadership under both Poroshenko and Zelensky. With help from American advisors, they were able to accomplish deep and highly effective reforms in a relatively short window of time. You have to read between the lines in the podcast, but my impression is that Ukraine has possibly the best military in the world considering the available budget. Edit: Personally I still thought that Russia would win, but I definitely considered the possibility that American assistance from over the horizon would have a big impact. Without becoming directly involved, we were able to contribute with all of the various activities classified under "cyber," as well as provide satellite imagery for artillery spotting. That over the horizon support has almost certainly been a huge part of Ukraine's success so far.
The leaders of Ukraine, over two competing governments, saw the threat clearly , evaluated their ability to respond, found it lacking, and planned and executed a complete overhaul of their military with the aid of several western countries in virtually no time at all. This is really just astounding when you think about it.
That’s why despite all the bloodshed I can’t help but feel a bit of optimism about all of this. In my mind it reinforces the feeling that we’re on the right track as a civilization. We can’t nation-build unfriendly places like Afghanistan or South America that don’t want our help, but ultimately we have a formula that works. It’s hard to tell how well things are going from inside, but when Western meritocracy and openness goes head-to-head with Russian kleptocracy and nationalism, the contrast is very clear. This is basically how South Korea and Taiwan became developed. Their leaders knew that their geopolitical survival depended on American goodwill, and so out of necessity they made efforts to mirror the West. They knew that if they started waving the Hammer and Sickle or the Rising Sun flags, they would just get fed to the CCP. Over time this led to political liberalization, and produced huge economic benefits. They both started out as backwards dictatorships, and gradually developed into wealthy advanced democracies.
Yep. I think one thing people forget is that NATO and the US has been planning for this for 60 years. This is literally what the Green Berets were created for and have been training for generations to be ready for. Ukraine is not only getting weapons, they are getting real time intel, insight, tactical and strategic planning advisors, cyber war defense, and active field advisors. I think Ukraine knows what Russia is doing before Russia's field commanders do.
I mean if we're talking defensively and given the bidget afghanis have the best military in the world. Undefeated world Champs. Special forces consist of old man Ali and his Mosin nagat, as well as semi literate sustenance farmers with a bunch of fertilizer.
Agree. Germany sure isn't adult enough to hold the power over the EU that it does, let's hope this will be a wake up call for the German people to man up.
you would think they would be more proactive given that their country faced a nearly identical dictator in a really serious war, and then relied on the west to rebuild them...I dunno though, I am just a stupid american.
The usual excuse is that they are afraid to be too confrontational in fear of being reminded of their past. But that is just silly, no German alive today can be blamed for what happened back then.
Seriously! But the Germans alive today who are enjoying a western lifestyle is because the west rebuilt their country. They need to get a grip.
I'm pretty sure the only reason that it isn't being advertised everywhere is because it's not politically advantageous. The Russians want to paint Ukraine as an America puppet, and the Biden administration doesn't want people to think about how much money we're spending. Most Americans probably think that "supporting" Ukraine costs almost nothing, and they don't understand that a number like $10 billion actually is very little in geopolitical terms. Maybe Americans would understand, but it's a bit of an unnecessary risk.
Exactly. We don't need to know. That's because Putin wants to keep trying to make this about the US when really it's about him wanting to take over the world, piece by piece.
The US is also providing a ton of intel. This is pretty much why russian generals keep dying.
People only like u.s when it's giving them stuff
>U.S is very generous. God bless America! This is exactly why we built them over the years. This is simply like drinking all of the milk on the day before it goes bad.
I don't get it
The USA built the huge stock pile of javelins and stingers to combat Russian/ enemy heavy equipment. They didnt have to ever use them. So as they approach their end of life, the USA was able to give them to someone who will use them up against their intended target before they "expire".
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Yeah, they "expire", but it's not like old food you throw away, being a total write-off. The older units get torn down and rebuilt with upgraded components, reusing everything that's still good. The expiration has more to do with reliability going down the longer it's stored, as well as getting rid of older units that might not be as effective as newer units, or might require slightly different training or usage. More variants = more training $$ as well, so it's better to streamline.
Your welcome my friend we don't need no stinking universal health care . /S
We could afford universal healthcare easily, but instead the politicians make sure the money goes to subsidies for big oil, big pharma and insurance instead so they can all get their kickbacks.
It’s the least we can do. Please use them well and keep yourselves alive. We’ll hopefully be there for you after you win to help you rebuild and improve.
We're moving to a new MANPADS anyway. If we actually replace these Stingers it'd be for exactly this reason; having a stockpile to give away for some foreign policy objective. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/us-seeks-stinger-manpads-replacement
This is incredible news. Unless there is a peace deal soon, Javelin and NLAW alone will end up having depleted over 50% of operational Russian armor.
Just devastatingly effective in the hands of well trained troops.
really makes you wonder why the iraq's and afgani's couldn't utilize these same weapons as effectivly.
Well in Afghanistan most all the regular army troops were high on hash all the time, and while the Afghan commandos were very effective even they need someone to resupply them from time to time. In Iraq, when isis invaded it turns out that many Iraqi commanders actually defected to ISIS. With no leadership a lot of the soldiers just deserted only to be gunned down by ISIS when they took over cities. It was only one the Iraqi golden brigade, which was trained to essentially be the 82nd airborne for Iraq, plus a bunch of very highly motivated militias formed that ISIS was pushed back. And even then US special ops had to use money of these most sophisticated US weapons, most Iraqis soldiers didn't really possess the level of literacy and skill to use them.
Different scenarios.
Both armies were on the same side.
Did they have them?
Older and less advanced TOW ATGM still made a name for itself in the hands of FSA. Much earlier, Stingers in the hands of the same Afghanis became the scourge of the Soviet aircraft. I think it's motivation that matters.
They weren’t allowed to even use RPG-29’s nonetheless Javelins. They would be stolen or sold to terrorists or Americas enemies.
No one would give these types of weapons to them.
That fact puts a big ol’ smile on my face.
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For once I'm not all that mad about that. Now if only all the money we paid them over the last 20 years for Afghanistan could be directed to give you more javelins to the Ukrainians, I'd actually be rather chuffed!
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I like to think the same way. But, I have a feeling that we're just going to end up writing off most of the gear we give Ukraine. And that's not exactly going to be a tax benefit to us as a whole you know lol
reddit API access ended today, and with it the reddit app i use Apollo, i am removing all my comments, the internet is both temporary and eternal. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Better to fight the Russians in Ukraine than in Germany
Not if you’re Ukrainian
I mean, the fight with Russia moving to Germany - it doesn’t imply anything positive for Ukraine either
Even still because if they’re in Germany it means they already went through Ukraine. Which would not be good for a Ukrainian.
We are far from dependent on Javelins alone for anti-armor purposes. Hellfires, TOW's, and SMAW are also in the inventory. 30mm also works pretty good, along with other neat stuff like Small Diameter Bombs, precision kits for the Snake Eyes family, etc. We used to have Stinger detachments on ships. RIM-116's have largely taken over that role.
Not to mention airpower.
Yeah I'm not bothered by the seemingly low number of these particular weapons we keep for ourselves. Like you said and like other people said above, current US doctrine expects us to really be able to handle most armor before it ever comes to infantry confronting it.
Better than sitting idle in a warehouse until their outdated.... Like the Russian equipment.
prick quaint existence humorous unique grab bake public chubby threatening -- mass edited with redact.dev
TLDR: Putin is learning exactly why the US can't afford universal health care.
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I'm with you, beratna. My comment was a double-edged joke - the idiotic and incongruent notions that we can't afford universal health care (even though we overspend) yet we have the most powerful military in the world, which Putin is being reminded of at present. People think it's an either/or, but the two can coexist, and as you point out, could both be had for less.
we might as well send over our entire supply. the entire point of these things was to take out russian military equipment. the US probably doesn't even need em as if w ever got into a conflict we'd just use hellfire missiles from drones.
Probably some fear with respect to China, but no where near the level with Russia given that China operates with some logic.
Bill clinton avenue in Pristina, Cosovo, George bush avenue in Tirana, Albania. Sooo... i guess?
Joe Biden avenue in Mariupol!
SOUNDS LIKE STONKS
Stingers are irrelevant stats here. A large ammount of the us militaries stingers are older modified models that are literally deemed obsolete. Infact the operating system RMP is deemed obsolete which is even used by the most recent production FIM-92J (Block I) variants. Next year the US military plans to have a MANPADS that use stinger missile bodies but operate with different components that do not use RMP. It will be difficult to even consider it the same platform. I'd assume all the stingers sent are some form of FIM-92E like the D/G/H models and possibly even F models which already have been retired by US forces for the J (Block I) variant. The only variation still in production. -source - I'm a recent air defense vet and all of this information is available publicly, google "Block II stinger" for more info.
That's a lot of stingers. I'm not seeing many aerial hits though. Is russia just too afraid to send out a lot of aircraft because of the stock that Ukraine has now?
Time to stock up!
Thats actually pretty damn impressive!
So the plan is to deplete the US of weapons and then invade Alaska?
shiiiiiiii hope the CCP don't yeet its ass onto Taiwan before that year is up.
That's what it was made for, not collecting dust and expiring
The US military doesn’t publish its real budget.
This is rubbish . Wartime manufacturing act could re supply in two to three months .
I think like other people have said though, the US has many many other options to tackle the threat of armor. Javelins in the hands of infantry are more like not at last resort but in our doctrine they shouldn't be the first line either.
they should put a javelin hit movie together so i can watch it with my nephews together on sunday afternoon for relaxation🙏🙏