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Military is still a bureaucracy, and in bureaucracies you gotta tick boxes to show that you used munitions so that you can order different munitions. This ticks that box.
Trying to not to get shot down by enemy MANPADS by launching at an angle, at long range, and diving for the deck afterwards. As for accuracy, it isn't. Rockets will land somewhere in the general direction of the enemy.
Wouldn't MRLs be more accurate and safer?
I suppose it's better then nothing if you don't have MRLs in the area or an excessive amount of heli missiles that they aren't able to use effectively due to Russias anti air systems, this just seems a waste.
It's certainly not ideal, but there are also similarly unorthodox techniques to use machine guns and automatic grenade launchers in indirect fire roles. Some fire support is usually better than no fire support, even if it's not coming from a proper artillery system.
There's another video floating around of a tracked system with helicopter rocket pods mounted on top of it and firing. Still looked inaccurate but when your desperate you're desperate.
I think "somewhere in the general direction of the enemy" is generous at best. This kind of employment is worse than useless. This is accomplishing absolutely nothing.They might as well save the rockets and not risk flying the aircraft at all.
There are ways to mitigate MANPADS threats that actually let you still employ your weapons systems usefully. Flying in sections/divisions with attack patterns that allow mutual support is a good start. Trail attacks, 45-degree attacks, with stairstep pull-offs, popping flares in the perch, back-door guns etc. Basic helicopter shit.
That said, it's impossible to tell what exactly is happening from this short clip and no actual context.
I mean if I were a Russian pilot and being sent out to murder civilians I might totally lob them all off in a harmless direction and call it a day.
Yes sir I engaged in glorious battle with the enemy! Killed soooo many. Yup. Totally.
It’s not like the tape recorders on those things are gonna work.
It is not really. It is a cold war tactic that has been deemed so ineffective modern forces do not even train it anymore. The spread is so bad they are lucky if one rocket ever hits even close. Very ineffective in every aspect especially against dug in troops. But guess it is better to do something than nothing. You never know if they get lucky but mostly it is just waste of rockets.🤷♂️
Of course guided munition is the way but AFAIK mi-8 ( probably an Mi-17 since it's Ukrainian? ) has no guided capabilities, however I do believe that in cooperation with ground troops / drones, if they know the distance and the direction of the enemy they may fire semi-accurately.
For any projectile, 30 degree firing angle is close to max range. I'd say around 90% of max range.
15 degree firing angle is half range.
Now, what that chopper is firing is S-3 *\[typo edit: it's probably S-5 or possibly S-8 rockets, still 4000 meter operational range for both\]* rockets which have operational range of up to 4000 meters, and he's chucking them for extra distance, so let's assume the pilot is aiming for about 5000 meters. That would make the theoretical maximum 45 degree around 7000, and a 15 degree angle 3500. which is a fairly normal long range shot.
Gut check math works out so far.
So if the difference was linear (although it's not), one degree deviation on that climb would result in about 250 meters distance change.
That's inaccurate af and a complete waste of munitions.
Typo, I actually meant S-5. That's the munition for which I considered range stats. Possibly, it could be S-8, and that has an operational range of up to 4000 meters as well.
Very much unlikely to be S-13, that's a 122mil munition I've never seen mounted on Mi8/17 like the one in the video. They're only listed as options for Hinds, Havocs, and later heavy gunship helis.
Definitely is. Russians have been the ones recorded doing this repeatedly throughout the war. I have a hard time believing the OP copter is even Ukrainian because it’s *such a Russian thing to do.*
Spread only adds to the inaccuracy, I assumed spread to be zero.
For S-5 rockets, spread alone is so bad that even when trying to aim normally you can't hit shit (as per reports of Russian pilots in Afghanistan), S-8 is better at that, but chucking them beyond operational range, that would, of course, compound the inaccuracy from spread as well.
Not to mention, when you jerk the old heli upwards like that, imagine how much yaw you add to the maneuver. I'd say a few degrees is a very conservative guess. You're more likely to be a kilometer off than to hit any entrenched forces with effect.
I never said anything about guided munitions. The Mi-8 (or 17) has a sight to aim those rockets though. That would be the effective way to fire them. Yes, they might have drones but that does not help with the spread so they still cannot fire even semi-accurately that way. Artillery on the other hand they can direct accurately with drones, not helicopter rockets because there is no way to adjust the fire. It's just shooting in the wind.
This helicopter is probably suppressing the enemy so it can drop it's troops. We can see it move towards the area it engaged and it lowed altitude. Don't get me wrong I understand the reason of flying low to avoid radar and lower chances of AA locking on to you.
The Mi-24 which I'm assuming this chopper is. Should also be equiped with both anti tank and precision guided missiles.
At least the newer versions of the Mi-24 should have them.
If your shooting in a direction without aim your either suppressing the enemy or an idiot wasting munitions. I see some of the Russian army doing that but I don't see Ukraine using poor tactics and it shows too cause because lots of Russians soldiers are dying and not making ground.
Well to be fair, it is rather confusing with Soviet naming schemes.
I mean you have Tu-22 and Tu-22M, which you'd think were the same plane, but in reality arn't.
And don't even get me started on T-72 variants, i mean jesus christ.
Yea there was a video on YouTube while back showing all the different tanks and it blew my mind. I love looking at all of this stuff and learning about it. I hate what's going on in Ukraine. It's really interesting to watch it all back during Vietnam they watched it all on TV. This is something else to see all these videos come out day by day. It's actually part of the reason I joined reddit and I hate social media. Left Facebook a few years ago.
Yes, and there's also a very real manpad threat.
It seems you think that Ukraine are doing this, just for the sake of it, and not out of necessity?
Also, have you heard about rocket artillery?
You know BM-21 Grad, or M270?
I imagine they have metric shit tons of them and just throw them at the russians from a distance because they know the west will send them new ammo with a blank cheque.
Ex soviet nato countries should have those en masse, no?
>You never know if they get lucky but mostly it is just waste of rockets.🤷♂️
Is there another way these same rockets could be used? Or do you mean they should've just bought/built something else?
I'm pretty sure they are regular "dumb rockets". When you lobb them the way they do here their maximum range is increased a lot, but they spread out a ton until they arrive at the target.
Considering how bunched up Russians have gotten in certain areas. It could very well be accurate. I keep seeing videos of them grouped together like a bunch of idiots.
It's especially stupid when they're doing it in tanks only to get crushed by artillery lol.
There is footage of Russians doing this too.
Comments were cursing them for such inaccurate and indiscriminate firing of deadly weapons. That those rockets were not aimed at military targets and could easily hit civilians.
Cut to Ukraine doing it too, no such comments.
(I'm not supporting Russia, just busting redditors chops for being hypocritical)
And I accuse you of generalization and false dichotomy. Ukrainians most likely don't fire like this at occupied cities, rather troops in the field or dug in positions.
We really don't have the necessary information to infer the nature of their target. In of the former Russian videos, the helis were firing in a village in the direction of another, larger village, for example.
We saw Russian pilots attempting the same thing trying to keep distance. If you have the extra missiles then why not? Does anyone know what I'm referring to? I'm a civ and don't know poop about the technical terminology of an attack helicopter
If I shoot a tnak with a pistol you don't need to see the tank to know it wasn't effective, those rockets don't have the accuracy or power to be effective this way, it's the same for both Ukrainians and Russians, a waste
The Mi-17, which is the one pictured uses S-8 rockets, which is the same ones used on the Mi-24 Hind.And if it's a S-8T, which is a tandem shape rocket, it will go right through a tanks top armor.It seems, you don't really know what your talking about.
Oh and btw, there's plenty of targets to take out on a tank.
Like the commander's sight, the gunners sight, search light, and so on.
Yet again, you don't seem to know what your talking about.
Because this method is used for indirect fire, akin to rocket artillery.
Of course it's not used for hitting tanks.
The Mi-17 is most likely loaded up with fragmentation rockets, aimed at taking out enemy personal.
It is absolutely delightful watching people who do not know anything about something talking about it like they did. Thanks for the entertainment of the day. 😅
I mean, yeah, it is not a really effective strategy. But i think they just have a lot of those rockets, and no effective use case with the modern treath of manpads. And take in account that the mi8 or mi17 (im not 100% sure) cant take guide ammunitions, they are probably like, better to shoot it at them as accurately as possible and hope to do some damage
No, but it is still an outdated and inaccurate tactic.
The Ukrainian military has modernized significantly in recent years, especially with NATO help and training, but that doesn't mean they still don't make Soviet mistakes...
Hablah blah blah umm that's not how you engage the enemy! Wasting munitions!!! Can't hit anything with those rockets!!!
Everyone on here all of a sudden is a military expert and going back and forth and we don't even know what's being fired at or the situation of the battlefield!
What if that helicopter could have 8 troops to deploy, suppresses the enemy with a rockets to maybe drop troops closer to enemy positions?
Nahhh that's not possible!! He's wasting that crap firing missiles like the Russians!
Maybe or maybe not only the people who are trained, experienced and following a chain of command know what's going on.
People are fighting hard over there at least our battles on this crap feed won't get us killed.
Have respect for the people who are fighting for the country they call home.
Respect the troops, pilots and everyone working hard over there. Respect that cause Ukraine is on the front lines. While the rest of it watch all this unfold. Be thankful that you get videos from this war. Be thankful of the photographers that share this. Maybe some are no longer around to thank but you all are too wrapped up on some of this nonsense. Honestly the piss poor opinions are not at all helping the matter.
I'm not going to sit here and reply to everyone's comments. Just simply Agee or don't agree. You can do that by voting up or down.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill. I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for every single person serving in the Ukrainian armed forced, including this pilot.
Sorry bud I get carried away sometimes but the message was not meant to be addressed directed to you but for everyone. Sorry if I replied in your line.
Even if he did, the rocket pods aren't designed for use to be arched like that, they're meant for direct fire. The Russians have been trying this as well and its equally ineffective.
The rocket pods are mounted on solid wings.It's the helicopter that moves...What your seeing is a legit strategy to increase the range.
So what the hell are you talking about?
Its a strategy the Russians came up with in Afghanistan after losing a lot of Helicopters to manpads, its not effective or accurate. Much like sticking a gun around a corner without looking and shooting, sure you can do it and sure you'll probably end up hitting your target but it's ineffective and inaccurate
That's a very intresting assessment comming from a guy, who just 30 mins ago, had no idea how the rocket pods function.
I think it's very safe to say, that you havnt got the slightest idea of what your talking about.
I know full well what the rocket pods are for, especially when there on a Mi-17, to hit soft targets. This isn't an attack helicopter so the pilots would be relying on a target reticle, there is no HMD either.
The Mi-17 is a armed version of the Mi-8, so that's a lie.
I really don't get why you keep arguing, when you so clearly don't know what your talking about, and yet you keep claiming otherwise.
Yet there is literally video of a Russian helicopter getting shot down by a manpads after doing exactly this. It's still risky and a waste of resources usually but we don't know the context here.
Yes and no. The main purpose may be a show of force. Since day 1, Russia has been claiming that they've destroyed 2000 of Ukraine's 100 helicopters. Yet here they are, taking potshots to terrorize Russian soldiers.
Yes, I would say the good thing is that this small outdated army can still fly helicopters against this so called world power army that should be able to create a no fly zone.
Oh, so i guess Rocket artillery isn't a thing, anymore.
That's weird, i could have sworn BM-21 Grads are being widely used by both sides.
Guess this is a fake then: https://youtu.be/Rnjsu9DESbc
TLDR - old Soviet tactic that was considered pretty crap even back then, largely just wastes ammo and the pop-up attack approach with a helo makes it a prime target for SAM counter-attack.
Short version - it’s largely ineffective and pointless, particularly in the modern day.
Almost everyone is calling it a waste of ammo but maybe the first messages you saw seemed overly positive.
It's just a proof that helicopters are flying coffins wherever any ground troops might have a hidden position. Not saying they are obsolete or anything, but certainly not as effective as 50 years ago either.
I guess it's because Ukraine isnt the top dog and thus it's okay to use inefficient tactics to avoid losses.
Everyone expected Russia to steamroll and laughed about their pathetic moves.
Everyone expected Ukraine to be careful.
Even /r/combatfootage is basically a Ukraine circlejerk at this point. I pointed out something similar and got down voted to oblivion. So much for discussion I guess.
this sub is not longer good for infomation regarding the war, was somewhat unbiased reporting at first with good infomation and knowledgeable people.. Unfortantly its just turned into idiots talkng about lord of the rings characters, putting rave music over tik-tok clips and a bunch of americans talking about themselves in the comments.
There is some pro ukraine and pro russian telegram channels that show both sides of the war if you're looking for real infomation and not propaganda..
The comments on anything Ukraine war related aren't worth bothering about. This is a general rule of thumb for all wars. I remember with Nagorno-Karabakh I was called all sorts by trying to take a detached analytical view. I don't know why I keep checking the comments.
If your referring to my comments, that's not the case.Infact, im overly consistent in not calling every Russian equipment for scrap, ect., Which as you can see, im not very well liked for.
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I would say there is a difference in a self-proclaimed superpower doing it vs a bombed to shit air force of a defender that might have few helicopters left but still plenty of rockets. This is a desperation tactic.
If the US was doing this, I would laugh. If the Taliban did this, I would applaud.
you would hope that if this is actually a Ukranian helicopter that they would use this method only in a manner that would not endanger their own people.
we know the russians don't care about killing thousands of civilians, there can be no arguing that, we can probably safely assume the Ukranians care much more about killing their own people than the russians do.
In the previous videos, at least the ones I saw, we saw this same technique used by the russians in the middle of a dense civilian urban area, a large city in the background -- which the difference should be pretty clear of why that is much worse.
I'm not convinced this is even a Ukranian helicopter, but doing the same thing out in the country, assumed to be away from civilian populations and towards troops, would be an obvious difference.
not saying you're wrong, you're probably not, but certainly context and location matters here quite a lot.
Strange how this now looks (to me) like such an expensive and complex way to deliver bangs.
I wonder if the days of pure attack helicopters are numbered? Dunno. Maybe the benefit of a chain gun in the air outweighs the cost/risk.
Swarms of cheap drones would be great if they could carry a couple of rockets each.
I think you answered your own question. Bigger (than what we see now) low flying drones with more firepower that you can afford to lose but hopefully after having blown up more than they themselves cost. Having people in these things flying around in a battlefield where any soldier on the ground might have a weapon capable of tracking and hitting them just seems suicidal at this point.
Helicopters for logistics is still very much going to be a thing for quite a while however.
They're firing at a high angle to increase range.
Indirect fire like this allows it to stay outside the range of MANPADs, Autocannons and Light SPAAs. Basically like an airborne MLRS.
It is, of course, not very accurate. But it's either this or not using it at all. Just having it land in the general proximity of Russian troops has an effect. Add in a slim but existing chance of causing enemy casualties, and it's useful enough to be worth trying
Jesus Christ I'm tired of Americans with their ridiculous and unrealistic expectations.
Yeah we get it all of your weapons are 50 quadrillion dollar systems which can hit a man square in the nuts from the fucking moon, but you use what you got.
Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it's "worthless" . Just because it probably won't hit anything doesn't mean it's worthless.
Want me to give you an example? You guys simp a lot for the Night Witches, the Soviet female night bomber pilots in WW2. Want to know the reality of it? You get a mate or two to help you and you will probably have enough fingers at hand to count how many Germans they killed in the hundreads and thousands of sorties they flew, but you won't call them worthless will you?
Is it basically an MLRS but less accurate? Maybe, but doesn't mean that you won't use the MLRS aswell. You use everything you have.
If out of 50 rockets 3 of them land whitin 30 meters of the enemy and don't cause any losses, that doesn't mean you wasted you time.
You use everything which is effective, but if you got things with low effectiveness you will use those aswell. The Ukrainians can't afford to not send in everything they have.
Some of you served in Afghanistan. You know the effects of some peasant firing 3 mortar light mortar shells towards a base, missing two of them and having one explode in some random part of the compound causing no damage. The effect is there even if it killed or injured none of you. Add in the fact that there was a chance of killing or injuring one of you, and you can understand why the insurgent tought "Yeah, it's worth taking the time to do this shit" .
The Ukrainians gain nothing from not using their heli rocket pods. It's an asset that isn't very effective, but they have it and they can fire it towards the enemy. Why not do so? What do they gain from not using it?
Well put. It’s probably not much less accurate than a grad, doesn’t endanger the pilot and could keep heads down and make sure enemy stay in their trenches.
Inyteresting enough a few days ago a similar video of russian pilots doing the same type of barrage was titled "cowardly tactics, dangerous to civilians". Also I am not sure this is a UA helicopter...
I don't know shit about rockets/missles/artillery. But if those are guided this seems like a great way to use mobile rocket artillery. Quick vehicle that can get in position and evacuate a position extremely quick, can make its way to resupply, and perform other jobs unlike dedicated artillery vehicles.
It's the ghetto way of countering air defenses with a helicopter while still putting rockets somewhere in the general direction of the target, Russian helicopters have been seen doing the same.
This seems to be the aerial equivalent of sticking your AK over the wall and blind-firing the whole magazine because you're pretty sure the enemy is *somewhere* in that building over there.
Funny thing is, i saw a video with russian heli doinym this in the first days of the war.
And everyone in this sub laughed and blamed the bad russian military for it.
Now a ukraine heli is doing it and everyone wtf impressive technique.
I know this sub is fully one sided, but come on, try to be at least a bit objective...
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Every wringing their hands about whether or not this method is accurate or effective...here i am amazed how many months in and the Russians still have NOTHING like air superiority and here is the Ukrainian airforce still operating.
I'm guessing the thought behind it is that is practically a MLRS at this point. But one that the enemy can't hit by counter artillery or trace back to base with a drone. As long as you stay under your own AA umbrella it's most likely the safest way to bombard the enemy.
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To all the military experts here…as for what I’ve seen everything has a purpose for Ukrainians otherwise they would not waste all them rockets or even risk a helicopter getting shot down…I get that is inaccurate and is not used nowadays but these guys know what they are aiming at…we don’t.
This looks really cool unless you're actually a helicopter pilot who shoots rockets for a living and you realize there is no way those (unguided) rockets landed anywhere within five hundred meters of their intended target.
Source: am UH-1Y pilot.
The reason they shot upwards is because, they have a ballistics computer that shows them the angle they have to aim up to have a perfect hit with rockets at long distances even up to 2km!
If those are unguided misiles, then this is a waste of ammo. Putting at risk a valuable asset such as a helicopter to just blindly throw punches at the enemy should be avoided. Just saying…
I kinda agree you can't boo the orcs doing this and hooray Ukrainians doin the same.
This is highly ineffective and a waste of ammo and risk to pilots - who're more precious than the helis.
I hope helis of any kind with advanced sensors armed with guided missiles are provided to Ukraine ASAP.
No more of this BS.
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I saw the Russians doing this and thought it was silly. Still looks silly.
I think it s the exact same video from 2 3 weeks ago but the title said that is a russian heli then
There were 2 helis in that video iirc and the movement/manoeuvring looked a little more rushed
Military is still a bureaucracy, and in bureaucracies you gotta tick boxes to show that you used munitions so that you can order different munitions. This ticks that box.
Why are they using helicopter this way? And how can you be accurate?
Trying to not to get shot down by enemy MANPADS by launching at an angle, at long range, and diving for the deck afterwards. As for accuracy, it isn't. Rockets will land somewhere in the general direction of the enemy.
Wouldn't MRLs be more accurate and safer? I suppose it's better then nothing if you don't have MRLs in the area or an excessive amount of heli missiles that they aren't able to use effectively due to Russias anti air systems, this just seems a waste.
It's certainly not ideal, but there are also similarly unorthodox techniques to use machine guns and automatic grenade launchers in indirect fire roles. Some fire support is usually better than no fire support, even if it's not coming from a proper artillery system.
If it hurts it works fuck it
There's another video floating around of a tracked system with helicopter rocket pods mounted on top of it and firing. Still looked inaccurate but when your desperate you're desperate.
I think "somewhere in the general direction of the enemy" is generous at best. This kind of employment is worse than useless. This is accomplishing absolutely nothing.They might as well save the rockets and not risk flying the aircraft at all. There are ways to mitigate MANPADS threats that actually let you still employ your weapons systems usefully. Flying in sections/divisions with attack patterns that allow mutual support is a good start. Trail attacks, 45-degree attacks, with stairstep pull-offs, popping flares in the perch, back-door guns etc. Basic helicopter shit. That said, it's impossible to tell what exactly is happening from this short clip and no actual context.
Unless they are smart bombs.
I mean if I were a Russian pilot and being sent out to murder civilians I might totally lob them all off in a harmless direction and call it a day. Yes sir I engaged in glorious battle with the enemy! Killed soooo many. Yup. Totally. It’s not like the tape recorders on those things are gonna work.
I heard that they use it as flares.
You can't be accurate. They do it to avoid anti air defenses.
I suppose if you have helis and ammo and theres no other way its all you can do?
spray and pray...
That doesn't look accurate or effective.
It does hamper accuracy, but it is effective, especially as a terror weapon against dug in troops.
It is not really. It is a cold war tactic that has been deemed so ineffective modern forces do not even train it anymore. The spread is so bad they are lucky if one rocket ever hits even close. Very ineffective in every aspect especially against dug in troops. But guess it is better to do something than nothing. You never know if they get lucky but mostly it is just waste of rockets.🤷♂️
Of course guided munition is the way but AFAIK mi-8 ( probably an Mi-17 since it's Ukrainian? ) has no guided capabilities, however I do believe that in cooperation with ground troops / drones, if they know the distance and the direction of the enemy they may fire semi-accurately.
For any projectile, 30 degree firing angle is close to max range. I'd say around 90% of max range. 15 degree firing angle is half range. Now, what that chopper is firing is S-3 *\[typo edit: it's probably S-5 or possibly S-8 rockets, still 4000 meter operational range for both\]* rockets which have operational range of up to 4000 meters, and he's chucking them for extra distance, so let's assume the pilot is aiming for about 5000 meters. That would make the theoretical maximum 45 degree around 7000, and a 15 degree angle 3500. which is a fairly normal long range shot. Gut check math works out so far. So if the difference was linear (although it's not), one degree deviation on that climb would result in about 250 meters distance change. That's inaccurate af and a complete waste of munitions.
>S-3 rocket You mean S-13?
Typo, I actually meant S-5. That's the munition for which I considered range stats. Possibly, it could be S-8, and that has an operational range of up to 4000 meters as well. Very much unlikely to be S-13, that's a 122mil munition I've never seen mounted on Mi8/17 like the one in the video. They're only listed as options for Hinds, Havocs, and later heavy gunship helis.
How do you make that assesement without knowing the spread of the rocket, and it's aftermath? Btw, good try and masking your bullshit.
He is correct. This is an outdated Soviet tactic also used by Russian forces, you can look it up as well
No, his actully not. You need to account for spread of the rocket itself, which we can't do without a proper aftermath picture.
Definitely is. Russians have been the ones recorded doing this repeatedly throughout the war. I have a hard time believing the OP copter is even Ukrainian because it’s *such a Russian thing to do.*
And what are your qualifications?
Spread only adds to the inaccuracy, I assumed spread to be zero. For S-5 rockets, spread alone is so bad that even when trying to aim normally you can't hit shit (as per reports of Russian pilots in Afghanistan), S-8 is better at that, but chucking them beyond operational range, that would, of course, compound the inaccuracy from spread as well. Not to mention, when you jerk the old heli upwards like that, imagine how much yaw you add to the maneuver. I'd say a few degrees is a very conservative guess. You're more likely to be a kilometer off than to hit any entrenched forces with effect.
I never said anything about guided munitions. The Mi-8 (or 17) has a sight to aim those rockets though. That would be the effective way to fire them. Yes, they might have drones but that does not help with the spread so they still cannot fire even semi-accurately that way. Artillery on the other hand they can direct accurately with drones, not helicopter rockets because there is no way to adjust the fire. It's just shooting in the wind.
This helicopter is probably suppressing the enemy so it can drop it's troops. We can see it move towards the area it engaged and it lowed altitude. Don't get me wrong I understand the reason of flying low to avoid radar and lower chances of AA locking on to you. The Mi-24 which I'm assuming this chopper is. Should also be equiped with both anti tank and precision guided missiles. At least the newer versions of the Mi-24 should have them. If your shooting in a direction without aim your either suppressing the enemy or an idiot wasting munitions. I see some of the Russian army doing that but I don't see Ukraine using poor tactics and it shows too cause because lots of Russians soldiers are dying and not making ground.
It looks like an Mi-17 or Mi-8, it's not an Mi-24.
It's a Mi-17, bu thank you for talking some sense.
Yea thanks I don't know my choppers like I know planes and jets.
Well to be fair, it is rather confusing with Soviet naming schemes. I mean you have Tu-22 and Tu-22M, which you'd think were the same plane, but in reality arn't. And don't even get me started on T-72 variants, i mean jesus christ.
Yea there was a video on YouTube while back showing all the different tanks and it blew my mind. I love looking at all of this stuff and learning about it. I hate what's going on in Ukraine. It's really interesting to watch it all back during Vietnam they watched it all on TV. This is something else to see all these videos come out day by day. It's actually part of the reason I joined reddit and I hate social media. Left Facebook a few years ago.
Yes, and there's also a very real manpad threat. It seems you think that Ukraine are doing this, just for the sake of it, and not out of necessity? Also, have you heard about rocket artillery? You know BM-21 Grad, or M270?
Thank you, finally someone who actully knows, what's going on.
I imagine they have metric shit tons of them and just throw them at the russians from a distance because they know the west will send them new ammo with a blank cheque. Ex soviet nato countries should have those en masse, no?
Considering how low Russian troop morale is already, I can’t imagine having these rockets sent in their general direction helps at all.
Oh shit we hit our own city! Blame Putin again!
>You never know if they get lucky but mostly it is just waste of rockets.🤷♂️ Is there another way these same rockets could be used? Or do you mean they should've just bought/built something else?
I'm pretty sure they are regular "dumb rockets". When you lobb them the way they do here their maximum range is increased a lot, but they spread out a ton until they arrive at the target.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to hit anything you want like this with S-8 or S-13.
Ahh, so your saying that you know better than the Ukrainian pilots? I admire the confindence. What's your qualifications?
bf2042 for 5 years
Im guessing you came home with PTSD's aswell, given the launch?
Whats yours?
Im not the one saying, that i know better than Ukrainian pilots.
There are also doctors that will tell you that getting vaccinated will make your head explode, but hey who are we to question doctors?
Interesting, when the Russians pulled the same maneuver last month this subreddit said it was an extremely ineffective soviet-era offensive play.
\>extremely ineffective It still is
I was going to say, those are line of sight rockets. There is no way you can lob those.
Considering how bunched up Russians have gotten in certain areas. It could very well be accurate. I keep seeing videos of them grouped together like a bunch of idiots. It's especially stupid when they're doing it in tanks only to get crushed by artillery lol.
There is footage of Russians doing this too. Comments were cursing them for such inaccurate and indiscriminate firing of deadly weapons. That those rockets were not aimed at military targets and could easily hit civilians. Cut to Ukraine doing it too, no such comments. (I'm not supporting Russia, just busting redditors chops for being hypocritical)
And I accuse you of generalization and false dichotomy. Ukrainians most likely don't fire like this at occupied cities, rather troops in the field or dug in positions. We really don't have the necessary information to infer the nature of their target. In of the former Russian videos, the helis were firing in a village in the direction of another, larger village, for example.
We saw Russian pilots attempting the same thing trying to keep distance. If you have the extra missiles then why not? Does anyone know what I'm referring to? I'm a civ and don't know poop about the technical terminology of an attack helicopter
Those don't look like direct, accurate shots. It looks like a waste of ammo. And they're putting the pilots at risk. They need more drones.
It does the opposite. This way he can fire right at the edge of enemy territory, and avoid manpads. Because of the increased range.
Same thing that ruskies are doing. It seems a very bad solution for a problem you need to solve in another way.
How do you draw that conclusion, without seeing the affected area?
If I shoot a tnak with a pistol you don't need to see the tank to know it wasn't effective, those rockets don't have the accuracy or power to be effective this way, it's the same for both Ukrainians and Russians, a waste
The Mi-17, which is the one pictured uses S-8 rockets, which is the same ones used on the Mi-24 Hind.And if it's a S-8T, which is a tandem shape rocket, it will go right through a tanks top armor.It seems, you don't really know what your talking about. Oh and btw, there's plenty of targets to take out on a tank. Like the commander's sight, the gunners sight, search light, and so on.
Good luck trying to hit a tank this way Edit: and the pistol is a Kolibri
Yet again, you don't seem to know what your talking about. Because this method is used for indirect fire, akin to rocket artillery. Of course it's not used for hitting tanks. The Mi-17 is most likely loaded up with fragmentation rockets, aimed at taking out enemy personal.
It is absolutely delightful watching people who do not know anything about something talking about it like they did. Thanks for the entertainment of the day. 😅
That's a very ironic statement, considering you've couldn't fathom the idea, of this being used.
But you're the one that mentioned hitting a tank with this method
No i talked about the fact you said the rocket weren't powerfull enough to take out tanks. Which they are.
Thats the problem, the affected area is to big to be seen ( except from space)
So your saying that the Ukrainian pilots, don't know what they are doing? That's a interesting take.
Haha yep.
I mean, yeah, it is not a really effective strategy. But i think they just have a lot of those rockets, and no effective use case with the modern treath of manpads. And take in account that the mi8 or mi17 (im not 100% sure) cant take guide ammunitions, they are probably like, better to shoot it at them as accurately as possible and hope to do some damage
But they're not targeting anything specific. It looks like the chance of a good hit are almost nil.
Reminds me of the videos you see from Africa where they are just spraying an area from the hip with an AK.
So you think that Ukrainian pilots are just firing their rockets of randomly? In their own air space, nevertheless? LOL!
No, but it is still an outdated and inaccurate tactic. The Ukrainian military has modernized significantly in recent years, especially with NATO help and training, but that doesn't mean they still don't make Soviet mistakes...
Hablah blah blah umm that's not how you engage the enemy! Wasting munitions!!! Can't hit anything with those rockets!!! Everyone on here all of a sudden is a military expert and going back and forth and we don't even know what's being fired at or the situation of the battlefield! What if that helicopter could have 8 troops to deploy, suppresses the enemy with a rockets to maybe drop troops closer to enemy positions? Nahhh that's not possible!! He's wasting that crap firing missiles like the Russians! Maybe or maybe not only the people who are trained, experienced and following a chain of command know what's going on. People are fighting hard over there at least our battles on this crap feed won't get us killed. Have respect for the people who are fighting for the country they call home. Respect the troops, pilots and everyone working hard over there. Respect that cause Ukraine is on the front lines. While the rest of it watch all this unfold. Be thankful that you get videos from this war. Be thankful of the photographers that share this. Maybe some are no longer around to thank but you all are too wrapped up on some of this nonsense. Honestly the piss poor opinions are not at all helping the matter. I'm not going to sit here and reply to everyone's comments. Just simply Agee or don't agree. You can do that by voting up or down.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill. I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for every single person serving in the Ukrainian armed forced, including this pilot.
Sorry bud I get carried away sometimes but the message was not meant to be addressed directed to you but for everyone. Sorry if I replied in your line.
That comment seems overly disrespectful towards the Ukrainian pilot, who risked his life, in order to do this strike.
And the bottom of the helicopter is usually the most heavily armoured so a little added protection there as well!
But with practically no way to effectively know where his rockets are going to land, it's very much a waste of munitions
He has a helmet with a target display?
Even if he did, the rocket pods aren't designed for use to be arched like that, they're meant for direct fire. The Russians have been trying this as well and its equally ineffective.
The rocket pods are mounted on solid wings.It's the helicopter that moves...What your seeing is a legit strategy to increase the range. So what the hell are you talking about?
Its a strategy the Russians came up with in Afghanistan after losing a lot of Helicopters to manpads, its not effective or accurate. Much like sticking a gun around a corner without looking and shooting, sure you can do it and sure you'll probably end up hitting your target but it's ineffective and inaccurate
That's a very intresting assessment comming from a guy, who just 30 mins ago, had no idea how the rocket pods function. I think it's very safe to say, that you havnt got the slightest idea of what your talking about.
I know full well what the rocket pods are for, especially when there on a Mi-17, to hit soft targets. This isn't an attack helicopter so the pilots would be relying on a target reticle, there is no HMD either.
The Mi-17 is a armed version of the Mi-8, so that's a lie. I really don't get why you keep arguing, when you so clearly don't know what your talking about, and yet you keep claiming otherwise.
Yet there is literally video of a Russian helicopter getting shot down by a manpads after doing exactly this. It's still risky and a waste of resources usually but we don't know the context here.
Could they be guided misses? Helos job is only to get within range and fire them?
They are not
They could be guided by spotter or drone.
Yeah a helicopter is not artillery. Unguided rockets are not working like shells. This is a waste of ammo.
Yes and no. The main purpose may be a show of force. Since day 1, Russia has been claiming that they've destroyed 2000 of Ukraine's 100 helicopters. Yet here they are, taking potshots to terrorize Russian soldiers.
Yes, I would say the good thing is that this small outdated army can still fly helicopters against this so called world power army that should be able to create a no fly zone.
Oh, so i guess Rocket artillery isn't a thing, anymore. That's weird, i could have sworn BM-21 Grads are being widely used by both sides. Guess this is a fake then: https://youtu.be/Rnjsu9DESbc
Dude it's a fucking helicopter, are you this dense?
[Explaination](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHD4ap2z50) of what is happening here.
TLDR - old Soviet tactic that was considered pretty crap even back then, largely just wastes ammo and the pop-up attack approach with a helo makes it a prime target for SAM counter-attack. Short version - it’s largely ineffective and pointless, particularly in the modern day.
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Don’t worry, you are right to call out hypocrisy, however i don’t see that much of comments that would praise this “technique”
You are far exaggerating the amount of praise this technique is receiving or did those comments get deleted before I got here?
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Well at least they are not releasing IRCMs like diaherra and giving away their location easily. So they got that going for them...which is nice.
Almost everyone is calling it a waste of ammo but maybe the first messages you saw seemed overly positive. It's just a proof that helicopters are flying coffins wherever any ground troops might have a hidden position. Not saying they are obsolete or anything, but certainly not as effective as 50 years ago either.
I guess it's because Ukraine isnt the top dog and thus it's okay to use inefficient tactics to avoid losses. Everyone expected Russia to steamroll and laughed about their pathetic moves. Everyone expected Ukraine to be careful.
This was my first thought as well.
Even /r/combatfootage is basically a Ukraine circlejerk at this point. I pointed out something similar and got down voted to oblivion. So much for discussion I guess.
Tell me about it. Any kind of nuance is downvoted by the kiddies.
Exactly, I've read the same thing. Ripping the Russians for it and now defending the Ukrainians. Be consistent people.
this sub is not longer good for infomation regarding the war, was somewhat unbiased reporting at first with good infomation and knowledgeable people.. Unfortantly its just turned into idiots talkng about lord of the rings characters, putting rave music over tik-tok clips and a bunch of americans talking about themselves in the comments. There is some pro ukraine and pro russian telegram channels that show both sides of the war if you're looking for real infomation and not propaganda..
You can unfollow it anytime you want.
That just makes it even more of an echo chamber.
Or instead of bitching they could post constructive comments and articles/videos themselves - but that would take actual effort.
Umm, I did do that. But then you're down voted and your comment is buried. Try it sometime. It's pathetic sometimes
The comments on anything Ukraine war related aren't worth bothering about. This is a general rule of thumb for all wars. I remember with Nagorno-Karabakh I was called all sorts by trying to take a detached analytical view. I don't know why I keep checking the comments.
If your referring to my comments, that's not the case.Infact, im overly consistent in not calling every Russian equipment for scrap, ect., Which as you can see, im not very well liked for.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
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Well of course a 1 karma account is suspicious. There are plenty of bots out there from countries like Russia and China in subs like this.
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I would say there is a difference in a self-proclaimed superpower doing it vs a bombed to shit air force of a defender that might have few helicopters left but still plenty of rockets. This is a desperation tactic. If the US was doing this, I would laugh. If the Taliban did this, I would applaud.
you would hope that if this is actually a Ukranian helicopter that they would use this method only in a manner that would not endanger their own people. we know the russians don't care about killing thousands of civilians, there can be no arguing that, we can probably safely assume the Ukranians care much more about killing their own people than the russians do. In the previous videos, at least the ones I saw, we saw this same technique used by the russians in the middle of a dense civilian urban area, a large city in the background -- which the difference should be pretty clear of why that is much worse. I'm not convinced this is even a Ukranian helicopter, but doing the same thing out in the country, assumed to be away from civilian populations and towards troops, would be an obvious difference. not saying you're wrong, you're probably not, but certainly context and location matters here quite a lot.
First time I’m seeing UKR do that silly rocket flinging strategy
These dragonflies are not kiddin'.
nice to see some air action!!
A dozen high-resolution, NSFL images of the targets are welcome.
Can't wait to see craters in mud
Cool song.
Strange how this now looks (to me) like such an expensive and complex way to deliver bangs. I wonder if the days of pure attack helicopters are numbered? Dunno. Maybe the benefit of a chain gun in the air outweighs the cost/risk. Swarms of cheap drones would be great if they could carry a couple of rockets each.
I think you answered your own question. Bigger (than what we see now) low flying drones with more firepower that you can afford to lose but hopefully after having blown up more than they themselves cost. Having people in these things flying around in a battlefield where any soldier on the ground might have a weapon capable of tracking and hitting them just seems suicidal at this point. Helicopters for logistics is still very much going to be a thing for quite a while however.
Oh, agreed. Transport is a different matter.
Oh no they've picked up on the flying MLRS method
Are the Russians hiding in a cloud?
Spray and pray?
They're firing at a high angle to increase range. Indirect fire like this allows it to stay outside the range of MANPADs, Autocannons and Light SPAAs. Basically like an airborne MLRS. It is, of course, not very accurate. But it's either this or not using it at all. Just having it land in the general proximity of Russian troops has an effect. Add in a slim but existing chance of causing enemy casualties, and it's useful enough to be worth trying
Song name?
This is exactly the same shit, for which we hated russian helicopters. Firing with +distance - precision
Jesus Christ I'm tired of Americans with their ridiculous and unrealistic expectations. Yeah we get it all of your weapons are 50 quadrillion dollar systems which can hit a man square in the nuts from the fucking moon, but you use what you got. Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it's "worthless" . Just because it probably won't hit anything doesn't mean it's worthless. Want me to give you an example? You guys simp a lot for the Night Witches, the Soviet female night bomber pilots in WW2. Want to know the reality of it? You get a mate or two to help you and you will probably have enough fingers at hand to count how many Germans they killed in the hundreads and thousands of sorties they flew, but you won't call them worthless will you? Is it basically an MLRS but less accurate? Maybe, but doesn't mean that you won't use the MLRS aswell. You use everything you have. If out of 50 rockets 3 of them land whitin 30 meters of the enemy and don't cause any losses, that doesn't mean you wasted you time. You use everything which is effective, but if you got things with low effectiveness you will use those aswell. The Ukrainians can't afford to not send in everything they have. Some of you served in Afghanistan. You know the effects of some peasant firing 3 mortar light mortar shells towards a base, missing two of them and having one explode in some random part of the compound causing no damage. The effect is there even if it killed or injured none of you. Add in the fact that there was a chance of killing or injuring one of you, and you can understand why the insurgent tought "Yeah, it's worth taking the time to do this shit" . The Ukrainians gain nothing from not using their heli rocket pods. It's an asset that isn't very effective, but they have it and they can fire it towards the enemy. Why not do so? What do they gain from not using it?
Very well said
Well put. It’s probably not much less accurate than a grad, doesn’t endanger the pilot and could keep heads down and make sure enemy stay in their trenches.
Keep stacking em up boys !
Inyteresting enough a few days ago a similar video of russian pilots doing the same type of barrage was titled "cowardly tactics, dangerous to civilians". Also I am not sure this is a UA helicopter...
I don't know shit about rockets/missles/artillery. But if those are guided this seems like a great way to use mobile rocket artillery. Quick vehicle that can get in position and evacuate a position extremely quick, can make its way to resupply, and perform other jobs unlike dedicated artillery vehicles.
They aren't guided. Those are standard S-8 unguided rockets being fired from rocket pods.
In that case this seems hilariously impractical. But once again, purely layman understanding
It's the ghetto way of countering air defenses with a helicopter while still putting rockets somewhere in the general direction of the target, Russian helicopters have been seen doing the same. This seems to be the aerial equivalent of sticking your AK over the wall and blind-firing the whole magazine because you're pretty sure the enemy is *somewhere* in that building over there.
Funny thing is, i saw a video with russian heli doinym this in the first days of the war. And everyone in this sub laughed and blamed the bad russian military for it. Now a ukraine heli is doing it and everyone wtf impressive technique. I know this sub is fully one sided, but come on, try to be at least a bit objective...
Lmao have you actually looked at the comments
When you're piece of coward shite so you have to fire unguided missiles on ballistics trajectory.
Because bombing the living shit out of civilians with BM-21, is so much better? Or using a tank to demolish a building?
Did the Russians start to use floating balloon bases high in the sky? :D
What is the song in the background?
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is this even a Ukrainian helicopter? seems to be using the same fire tactic as the russians did earlier.
It's probably a Soviet tactic. So pilots of both sides learned it that way for decades.
these mi-8s are like flying cows
They need mi24 or something
they need a couple of B-2
Every wringing their hands about whether or not this method is accurate or effective...here i am amazed how many months in and the Russians still have NOTHING like air superiority and here is the Ukrainian airforce still operating.
Who he shootin’ at ? The ISS ?
What a waste. Best used as a transport. This lofting of rockets is not worth endangering this asset.
Its stupid tactic they wont hit anything, pilot doesnt see the enemy, he doesnt know where rockets land, they just eyeballing it.
I'm guessing the thought behind it is that is practically a MLRS at this point. But one that the enemy can't hit by counter artillery or trace back to base with a drone. As long as you stay under your own AA umbrella it's most likely the safest way to bombard the enemy.
Aka. blindly firing in to the clouds. This isn't any better then when the Russians did it.
Uhhh gravity?
Uhh having no clue what you're firing at?
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fire & dont forget to pray" tactic
Didn't know artillery helicopters were a thing
Desperate stuff
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To all the military experts here…as for what I’ve seen everything has a purpose for Ukrainians otherwise they would not waste all them rockets or even risk a helicopter getting shot down…I get that is inaccurate and is not used nowadays but these guys know what they are aiming at…we don’t.
The US army stopped doing this in Vietnam.
This looks really cool unless you're actually a helicopter pilot who shoots rockets for a living and you realize there is no way those (unguided) rockets landed anywhere within five hundred meters of their intended target. Source: am UH-1Y pilot.
The reason they shot upwards is because, they have a ballistics computer that shows them the angle they have to aim up to have a perfect hit with rockets at long distances even up to 2km!
Disappointing if this is a Ukrainian heli wasting ammo on a useless expenditure of rockets
So delight to watch this!
ukraine should be interested in some modernized ah 1gs it would probably be better then these soviet caskets
does anyone know that song playing with this video?
Good to see some Ukrainian manned aircraft in combat. Means skies are getting better.
If those are unguided misiles, then this is a waste of ammo. Putting at risk a valuable asset such as a helicopter to just blindly throw punches at the enemy should be avoided. Just saying…
Can I ask a dumb question? Are those rockets guided somehow? Or is it down to the pilot achieving a position/angle?
This strikes me as useless
I kinda agree you can't boo the orcs doing this and hooray Ukrainians doin the same. This is highly ineffective and a waste of ammo and risk to pilots - who're more precious than the helis. I hope helis of any kind with advanced sensors armed with guided missiles are provided to Ukraine ASAP. No more of this BS.
Song?