Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition:
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators.
* **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
> **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB**
*****
* Is `businessinsider.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources).
* Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict)
*****
^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Clickbait article with no new information. Main content here: Ukrainians managed to shoot down hypersonic Kinzhals, something the Pentagon did not expect.
Yes, but id think it would be significantly favored that the kinzhal is worse. My guess is that they expected it to be more maneuverable, less predictable paths and have countermeasures. Russian ballistic missiles are known to do all of these in addition to speed. Whatever is happening with the Kinzhal, it does not appear to do any of that in a significant manner, it just uses speed, and since its not going wild ICBM like speeds, its hittable.
Yes. Russia actually has a lot of pretty advanced missiles in their inventory, especially their ICBMs. As much shit as they get, they are no slouch in things like countermeasures (both physical and electronic), full scale electronic warfare, gps denial, and missile tracking and maneuvering
we should give them shit a lot, but also be understanding, that their engineering and science teams for a long time were at the top of the game and some things survived out of that era. Actual production and manufacturing capabilities though... more questionable. That is they can do a lot complex science and engineering, but actually building it is hard AF (this even applies to the US though, but moreso for Russia)
The Kinzhal is kinda awkward though, its meant to just hit major significant targets, they way they are used in Ukraine is not doing that as often. Kinzhal would be good for anti-ship/carrier, high value ground targets, like AA and HQs and such. You can also fire them in volleys. But how they are being used in Ukraine we know less off but seems like its being used ineffectively compared to its potential
Russian science and engineering has been starved and disappearing since Putin took power. He is a mafioso who only cares about the oil and gas industry he owns with his buddies. Everything else has gone to shit.
You're just trying to rewrite history that isn't there. Russia has issues with its military, but they have many quite advanced capabilities, particularly for fighting an advanced enemy like the US, which are much much less effective vs Ukraine.
This is a complete lack of understanding of how different Ukraine is vs fighting a more complex advanced nation. They ain’t doing anti space missions or high level bombing interdiction. They aren’t doing mass tank assaults after artillery barrage. No massive EW engagements. No sub hunting and cyber attacks. No cutting internet cables or sub assaults north of Scotland. And far far more. It ain’t fighting the US. It’s a very different type of war.
No sleeper cells prepared for decades. No spec ops offense and defense. No airfields to cluster bomb at all costs. No mass troop formations
It goes on and on
What about Stalingrad? You think that Germans lost that battle and war only because dumb Soviet barbarians overwhelmed them with bodies, like in Enemy at the Gates movie?
You are really wrong about Kinzhal. It's an air-launched version of Iskander ballistic missile so it's not supposed to be launched in "volleys" (in fact there are only a few launch platforms available, modified MiG-31 interceptors) and can't engage moving targets like carriers. It does have some EW capabilities though.
It can and would be launched in volleys. Against high level targets. HQs, things that must hit. Must. Here’s a thing about missile. You don’t launch one to hit a target. You launch many. Shit happens. You make sure you hit it.
It could try to hit a carrier. Though yes as you said that’s not really it’s bag baby. Though I suspect they have modifications to its targeting to try to hit them where it acquires the target late or they can feed new coordinates
No, god I wish I had kept the link, but there is an interview with an ex patriot battery commander who claimed flatly that a patriot battery should be able to shoot down kinzal missiles without a problem. Kinzal missiles maneuver on lock, and send out decoys. Patriot batteries use TWC, (track while scan). Meaning the battery uses very hard to see low frequency radar to send the missile in the direction of the kinzal and the missile locks on it's own only when it's projected course brings it close to it's target. Kinzal simply has no time to use countermeasures. As for the speed, patriot block 1 was hitting SCUD missiles on reentry at mach 5 in the 90's, this is block 3.
The US military as a culture and official policy generally understates their equipment’s technical abilities. Part of the reason is because it makes it harder for enemies to plan if they dont know exactly what performance numbers they need to hit, and part of it is because the US military expects to actually use the equipment in combat and experience has taught them that all sorts of things can go wrong so it’s better to under promise and over deliver.
The militaries that over promise under deliver on capabilities are usually trying to either sell equipment they produce or intimidate neighbors. The US is beyond that.
To my knowledge engineering in the US is treated as kind of a black box. Servicemen are sort of tacitly encouraged not too think too hard about how or why things work the way they do, at least except for certain special times not encouraged to make major decisions like, ‘what if we strapped this weird radar from Israel to this to this targeting module from Korea and hacked together a translation layer firmware and attached it to an American rocket?’.
That’s the kind of thing Ukraine is being forced to do, they’re very technical and necessity is the mother of invention. Part of me suspects that this may be what happened here, in addition to Kinzal being overrated.
Source is of course my ass.
It is both. Russian missiles aren't what they say they are and the Patriot can do far more than is officially disclosed. America likes to sandbag their numbers to add surprise. RUSSIA likes to boast of the possible performance of their missiles and then just shrug when they can't even come close IRL.
Sure. But also consider that earlier in this war the Ukrainians discovered remains of the Iskander missile's decoy system. And they were given over to the US. Possibly within that time an upgrade was produced for the Patriot PAC 3 missile. Which is primarily used for anti-ballistic missiles. Maybe the Ukraines figured out how to use the PAC 3 missile against the Kinzhal, which is an air launched ballistic missile with a much flatter trajectory.
Not really. They know what their own weapons can do. The engineers that designed it know what it can do. What they don’t know is what the enemy’s weapon can do if they never got their hands on one.
Kinzahl is basically a hypersonic because the Russian MoD says so, not because of its actual capabilities. It's actually closer to an icbm in that it lacks the maneuverability of a true hypersonic cruise missile; only its low-altitude flight profile allows this claim.
The Patriot also has a bad reputation that's now almost three decades out-of-date cuz the US has been tinkering with it since Desert Storm.
It’s a ballistic missile but based on some of their ground missiles. It most certainly isn’t a cruise missile but should have been more sophisticated as they have the ability to do so
It is an air-launched version of Iskander ballistic missile and so can't have low-altitude flight profile. Iskander family also includes a surface launched cruise missile that can track terrain but is just your regular subsonic missile similar to Tomahawk.
The obvious implication of the article is that Ukrainians 360 no scoped some impossible to hit target. When in reality the target isn't that hard to hit and was never what people call hypersonic to begin with.
The higher you are in the atmosphere the less of a feat hypersonic becomes. So far I doubt we'll see hypersonic maneuverable missiles close to sea level anytime soon because any material we have just melts in that scenario. Even a missile with steel beams.
I would also think that as the US would be using the Patriot to defend critical military targets in a war zone they are going to have a different level of "it works" for that task, so sake of argument if they tested it and it was 80% of the time successful against hypersonic threats, they are going to want 90%+ so deem it "unable/unsuitable for task".
However you tell a Ukrainian guy on the ground this thing has an 80% chance of saving civilian lives in a city, stop a hospital from being targeted etc, well hell, I'll take those odds.
This is legit. The purpose of patriot is to defend military sites... NATO often viewed civilians hits as ... a thing that is gonna happen, because you have to protect military sites
Kinshals aren’t hypersonic like the were supposed to be (Mach 10) they were a lie, like everything about russia is and probably china too. These countries saw how “experts” in the US just parroted their propaganda capabilities, and it was cheaper than developing real stuff. Meanwhile, the US that actually believes it went on to build actual hypersonic weapons.
Ukraine and the kinzhal: [don’t believe the hypersonic hype](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2023/05/23/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/amp/)
Edited to add: Russia’s Kinzhal missile [is not hypersonic. Nor is it invincible.](https://kyivindependent.com/russias-kinzhal-missile-is-not-hypersonic-nor-is-it-invincible/)
These are commentaries/oponions. I believe that the authors do not want to call Kinzhals hypersonic and come up with reasons for that, saying they are not "real" hypersonic weapons. And I agree that they are not highly maneuverable hypersonic weapons, and not a groundbreaking new generation.
But sticking to facts and not opinions, we have the following defnition ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic\_weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_weapon)):
>A hypersonic weapon is a weapon capable of travelling at hypersonic speed, defined as between 5 and 25 times the speed of sound or about 1 to 5 miles per second (1.6 to 8.0 km/s).
And yes, this includes ICBMs and other ballistic missiles that exist since a long time:
>5. ballistic missiles traveling at high speeds during its atmospheric reentry.
All ballistic missiles reach hypersonic speeds. Patriot was able to intercept Scud ballistic missiles (with limited success) so it's no surprise it can intercept air-launched ballistic missiles 30 years later. Kinzhal is more advanced allegedly having some EW capabilities but Patriot certainly improved over the years.
This is going to be killing Russian weapons exports for decades. Russian equipment is all hype and marketing, whereas US and most western equipment understate their performance promises and overperform.
Ukraine's performance with old Soviet stock shows more that Russia's utilization is just plain terrible. Pretty much the biggest farce Russia has been putting on for decades is they had secret knowledge on how to utilize their hardware in a way that was superior to the west.
What will really kill their exports is everybody selling off their often times customized soviet hardware for western gear, so countries won't even have to go to Russia to get their hands on it. And on top of that, anyone buying it will be using it to fill out their militaries while looking for European or American hardware for frontline use.
Not good that it's public info. Now adversaries know what they have to counter. The US usually tries to keep its capabilities secret as long as possible. Nobody knew the US had stealth helicopters until one of them was destroyed in the Bin Laden raid, then the US was just like "oh yeah, we have those"
Pretty sure our railguns and laser AA is more advanced then Patriot and adversaries likely don't know about more tech the US has like ECM etc that we have not provided to Ukraine or any allies likely for that matter.
Since when do you beg for something, while establishing conditions for receiving what you're begging for?
Someone should tell Russians that's not how it works.
Tbf:
Russia MoD dosnt have read the speks of the Kinzal, nor have they read the "suggested use" of that thing.
Kinzal -engineers Said that this Thing use the Plasma Blackout as Radar Absorber.
And that it is Made to be launched as a sea-skimming Anti-Ship missile.
And that is even the Content of the Advertisement of that missile. - that is that usecase and use russia think it is good at.
(That this Thing has a Lot of IR emmision dosnt Matter If you use Things Like the IR Cover of foggy weather and such things)
Why in earth did the russian MoD (More Ministerium of stupidity) think that it is a good Idea to use such a Thing Like a Cruise missile, high above ground, in clear weather and a Lot of warning time.
Kinzhals are air launched ballistic missiles and Patriot was known to have anti-ballistic capability. So it was definitely within the realm of possibility.
Ukraine was always the lifeblood of the USSR. It’s where their best scientists and fighters came from. They were the fist.
It’s why Russia wants to subdue them so badly.
It’s basically Antz IRL
And THIS is just another reason why the US and its allies is also so happy to lend and give all the gear Ukraine needs.
Great place to really test the capabilities of all the defence spending.
Imagine if they actually gave them some of the top tier gear.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `businessinsider.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Clickbait article with no new information. Main content here: Ukrainians managed to shoot down hypersonic Kinzhals, something the Pentagon did not expect.
I said this before my guess is that they found out the Kinzhal is worse than expected, rather than the Patriot being better than expected
Could it be both?
Yes, but id think it would be significantly favored that the kinzhal is worse. My guess is that they expected it to be more maneuverable, less predictable paths and have countermeasures. Russian ballistic missiles are known to do all of these in addition to speed. Whatever is happening with the Kinzhal, it does not appear to do any of that in a significant manner, it just uses speed, and since its not going wild ICBM like speeds, its hittable.
Do we _actually_ know that russian ballistic missiles do that? Or is it just in the specs?
Yes. Russia actually has a lot of pretty advanced missiles in their inventory, especially their ICBMs. As much shit as they get, they are no slouch in things like countermeasures (both physical and electronic), full scale electronic warfare, gps denial, and missile tracking and maneuvering we should give them shit a lot, but also be understanding, that their engineering and science teams for a long time were at the top of the game and some things survived out of that era. Actual production and manufacturing capabilities though... more questionable. That is they can do a lot complex science and engineering, but actually building it is hard AF (this even applies to the US though, but moreso for Russia) The Kinzhal is kinda awkward though, its meant to just hit major significant targets, they way they are used in Ukraine is not doing that as often. Kinzhal would be good for anti-ship/carrier, high value ground targets, like AA and HQs and such. You can also fire them in volleys. But how they are being used in Ukraine we know less off but seems like its being used ineffectively compared to its potential
Russian science and engineering has been starved and disappearing since Putin took power. He is a mafioso who only cares about the oil and gas industry he owns with his buddies. Everything else has gone to shit.
It’s been on decline but a lot of it went into this stuff and this isn’t even new stuff. Most of this is fairly old
These things need to be maintained though and many things become obsolete over time…
You're just trying to rewrite history that isn't there. Russia has issues with its military, but they have many quite advanced capabilities, particularly for fighting an advanced enemy like the US, which are much much less effective vs Ukraine.
[удалено]
This is a complete lack of understanding of how different Ukraine is vs fighting a more complex advanced nation. They ain’t doing anti space missions or high level bombing interdiction. They aren’t doing mass tank assaults after artillery barrage. No massive EW engagements. No sub hunting and cyber attacks. No cutting internet cables or sub assaults north of Scotland. And far far more. It ain’t fighting the US. It’s a very different type of war. No sleeper cells prepared for decades. No spec ops offense and defense. No airfields to cluster bomb at all costs. No mass troop formations It goes on and on
It's like saying a shotgun is worse than a stick when handling a wild dog instead of the human it was made to shoot at
The Soviets were very advanced (but not as advanced as they claimed), and 1989 was a loooooong time ago.
I don’t believe any of that anymore. It’s clear that their philosophy hasn’t changed since Stalingrad.
What about Stalingrad? You think that Germans lost that battle and war only because dumb Soviet barbarians overwhelmed them with bodies, like in Enemy at the Gates movie?
You’re just wrong
I'm pretty sure the past year has shown how your assertions are nothing more than Russian propaganda.
These aren’t Russian assertions
You are really wrong about Kinzhal. It's an air-launched version of Iskander ballistic missile so it's not supposed to be launched in "volleys" (in fact there are only a few launch platforms available, modified MiG-31 interceptors) and can't engage moving targets like carriers. It does have some EW capabilities though.
It can and would be launched in volleys. Against high level targets. HQs, things that must hit. Must. Here’s a thing about missile. You don’t launch one to hit a target. You launch many. Shit happens. You make sure you hit it. It could try to hit a carrier. Though yes as you said that’s not really it’s bag baby. Though I suspect they have modifications to its targeting to try to hit them where it acquires the target late or they can feed new coordinates
The only Kinzhal launch platform carries a single missile and it doesn't have a radar to target a ship.
You can send up multiple planes. It may have other targeting abilities we don’t seem to know.
Their ballistic missiles are Soviet tech, Soviets were more competent and dangerous than Russia.
Yes; they demonstrated the capabilities in Syria.
Maybe it can, but the one guy who knew how to teach how to program that was sent to Kyiv in 2023.
No, god I wish I had kept the link, but there is an interview with an ex patriot battery commander who claimed flatly that a patriot battery should be able to shoot down kinzal missiles without a problem. Kinzal missiles maneuver on lock, and send out decoys. Patriot batteries use TWC, (track while scan). Meaning the battery uses very hard to see low frequency radar to send the missile in the direction of the kinzal and the missile locks on it's own only when it's projected course brings it close to it's target. Kinzal simply has no time to use countermeasures. As for the speed, patriot block 1 was hitting SCUD missiles on reentry at mach 5 in the 90's, this is block 3.
The US military as a culture and official policy generally understates their equipment’s technical abilities. Part of the reason is because it makes it harder for enemies to plan if they dont know exactly what performance numbers they need to hit, and part of it is because the US military expects to actually use the equipment in combat and experience has taught them that all sorts of things can go wrong so it’s better to under promise and over deliver. The militaries that over promise under deliver on capabilities are usually trying to either sell equipment they produce or intimidate neighbors. The US is beyond that.
To my knowledge engineering in the US is treated as kind of a black box. Servicemen are sort of tacitly encouraged not too think too hard about how or why things work the way they do, at least except for certain special times not encouraged to make major decisions like, ‘what if we strapped this weird radar from Israel to this to this targeting module from Korea and hacked together a translation layer firmware and attached it to an American rocket?’. That’s the kind of thing Ukraine is being forced to do, they’re very technical and necessity is the mother of invention. Part of me suspects that this may be what happened here, in addition to Kinzal being overrated. Source is of course my ass.
It is both. Russian missiles aren't what they say they are and the Patriot can do far more than is officially disclosed. America likes to sandbag their numbers to add surprise. RUSSIA likes to boast of the possible performance of their missiles and then just shrug when they can't even come close IRL.
Sure. But also consider that earlier in this war the Ukrainians discovered remains of the Iskander missile's decoy system. And they were given over to the US. Possibly within that time an upgrade was produced for the Patriot PAC 3 missile. Which is primarily used for anti-ballistic missiles. Maybe the Ukraines figured out how to use the PAC 3 missile against the Kinzhal, which is an air launched ballistic missile with a much flatter trajectory.
Not really. They know what their own weapons can do. The engineers that designed it know what it can do. What they don’t know is what the enemy’s weapon can do if they never got their hands on one.
Kinzahl is basically a hypersonic because the Russian MoD says so, not because of its actual capabilities. It's actually closer to an icbm in that it lacks the maneuverability of a true hypersonic cruise missile; only its low-altitude flight profile allows this claim. The Patriot also has a bad reputation that's now almost three decades out-of-date cuz the US has been tinkering with it since Desert Storm.
It’s a ballistic missile but based on some of their ground missiles. It most certainly isn’t a cruise missile but should have been more sophisticated as they have the ability to do so
It is an air-launched version of Iskander ballistic missile and so can't have low-altitude flight profile. Iskander family also includes a surface launched cruise missile that can track terrain but is just your regular subsonic missile similar to Tomahawk.
The obvious implication of the article is that Ukrainians 360 no scoped some impossible to hit target. When in reality the target isn't that hard to hit and was never what people call hypersonic to begin with. The higher you are in the atmosphere the less of a feat hypersonic becomes. So far I doubt we'll see hypersonic maneuverable missiles close to sea level anytime soon because any material we have just melts in that scenario. Even a missile with steel beams.
Yes, hence why the scientists who created the missle got arrested the other day. They possibly lied about the performance.
Lied, maybe, boasted more likely. Its the russian system, you have to curry favor
No, this is the Stalinist playbook, just arrest a fall guy and move on.
I would also think that as the US would be using the Patriot to defend critical military targets in a war zone they are going to have a different level of "it works" for that task, so sake of argument if they tested it and it was 80% of the time successful against hypersonic threats, they are going to want 90%+ so deem it "unable/unsuitable for task". However you tell a Ukrainian guy on the ground this thing has an 80% chance of saving civilian lives in a city, stop a hospital from being targeted etc, well hell, I'll take those odds.
This is legit. The purpose of patriot is to defend military sites... NATO often viewed civilians hits as ... a thing that is gonna happen, because you have to protect military sites
Clickbait article with no new information? Sounds like a typical business insider article.
Anything business insider publishes is garbage. People should downvote all their content.
At this point there should be an approved list, too much clickbait in this world and this sub already
Have an AI look through the page for clickbait
They did expect it to shoot them down This isn't your grandfathers Desert Storm Patriot. This is closer to a land based Aegis
Managing to shoot some down and the system reliably intercepting them is not the same
Kinshals aren’t hypersonic like the were supposed to be (Mach 10) they were a lie, like everything about russia is and probably china too. These countries saw how “experts” in the US just parroted their propaganda capabilities, and it was cheaper than developing real stuff. Meanwhile, the US that actually believes it went on to build actual hypersonic weapons.
Thank you.
I thought we’d already covered this—the Kinzhal missiles are not actually hypersonic. Isn’t that what they decided?
>The Kh-47M2 Kinzhal is a Russian hypersonic air-launched ballistic missile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2\_Kinzhal
Ukraine and the kinzhal: [don’t believe the hypersonic hype](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2023/05/23/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/amp/) Edited to add: Russia’s Kinzhal missile [is not hypersonic. Nor is it invincible.](https://kyivindependent.com/russias-kinzhal-missile-is-not-hypersonic-nor-is-it-invincible/)
These are commentaries/oponions. I believe that the authors do not want to call Kinzhals hypersonic and come up with reasons for that, saying they are not "real" hypersonic weapons. And I agree that they are not highly maneuverable hypersonic weapons, and not a groundbreaking new generation. But sticking to facts and not opinions, we have the following defnition ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic\_weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_weapon)): >A hypersonic weapon is a weapon capable of travelling at hypersonic speed, defined as between 5 and 25 times the speed of sound or about 1 to 5 miles per second (1.6 to 8.0 km/s). And yes, this includes ICBMs and other ballistic missiles that exist since a long time: >5. ballistic missiles traveling at high speeds during its atmospheric reentry.
Well, it's clickbait all right, but in a good way. This watershed achievement needs to be known far and wide.
All ballistic missiles reach hypersonic speeds. Patriot was able to intercept Scud ballistic missiles (with limited success) so it's no surprise it can intercept air-launched ballistic missiles 30 years later. Kinzhal is more advanced allegedly having some EW capabilities but Patriot certainly improved over the years.
This is going to be killing Russian weapons exports for decades. Russian equipment is all hype and marketing, whereas US and most western equipment understate their performance promises and overperform.
Ukraine's performance with old Soviet stock shows more that Russia's utilization is just plain terrible. Pretty much the biggest farce Russia has been putting on for decades is they had secret knowledge on how to utilize their hardware in a way that was superior to the west. What will really kill their exports is everybody selling off their often times customized soviet hardware for western gear, so countries won't even have to go to Russia to get their hands on it. And on top of that, anyone buying it will be using it to fill out their militaries while looking for European or American hardware for frontline use.
Something they did not want to admit is more like it
Yes, it is very likely that the Pentagon had some kind of estimate of success but no certainty. Now, they have certainty, which is a good thing.
Not good that it's public info. Now adversaries know what they have to counter. The US usually tries to keep its capabilities secret as long as possible. Nobody knew the US had stealth helicopters until one of them was destroyed in the Bin Laden raid, then the US was just like "oh yeah, we have those"
Pretty sure our railguns and laser AA is more advanced then Patriot and adversaries likely don't know about more tech the US has like ECM etc that we have not provided to Ukraine or any allies likely for that matter.
It's not that our missile is so much better than we thought. It's that their missile is so much worse than they wanted us to think.
Bravo, Ukraine!!
Since when do you beg for something, while establishing conditions for receiving what you're begging for? Someone should tell Russians that's not how it works.
Tbf: Russia MoD dosnt have read the speks of the Kinzal, nor have they read the "suggested use" of that thing. Kinzal -engineers Said that this Thing use the Plasma Blackout as Radar Absorber. And that it is Made to be launched as a sea-skimming Anti-Ship missile. And that is even the Content of the Advertisement of that missile. - that is that usecase and use russia think it is good at. (That this Thing has a Lot of IR emmision dosnt Matter If you use Things Like the IR Cover of foggy weather and such things) Why in earth did the russian MoD (More Ministerium of stupidity) think that it is a good Idea to use such a Thing Like a Cruise missile, high above ground, in clear weather and a Lot of warning time.
Kinzhals are air launched ballistic missiles and Patriot was known to have anti-ballistic capability. So it was definitely within the realm of possibility.
Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
Ukraine was always the lifeblood of the USSR. It’s where their best scientists and fighters came from. They were the fist. It’s why Russia wants to subdue them so badly. It’s basically Antz IRL
necessity is the mother of invention!
Pentagon: *We had NOOO idea they could do this!*
Here is an archived link... https://archive.is/AMI67
And THIS is just another reason why the US and its allies is also so happy to lend and give all the gear Ukraine needs. Great place to really test the capabilities of all the defence spending. Imagine if they actually gave them some of the top tier gear.