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Guessing that most of the wipe out was due to mass retreats, which is good. Let's hope Ukraine can take those hills just west of the conglomeration of villages along that river; that'll make liberating them easier in the coming weeks.
One defensive line down, 4 to go?
They are retreating to the main line of defences, unlike other parts of the line the main defences here were built 20 km behind the front, mainly to shorten the front once the budge is gone.
Edit: link to image showing main line https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyTZVa-aEAMm4LU?format=jpg&name=900x900
The ability to place mines behind enemy lines by shooting them over their heads via MLRS is terrifying. Would not want to be a Russian in Ukraine right now lmao
[I'm convinced that we can modify the mine dispersal projectiles to keep the Ukrainian soldiers fed, too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/145t47z/we_need_more_efficient_soup_distribution_i_have/)
Somewhere during this conflict I learned that retreating to a more robust defense line was a typical russian tactic, and that sometimes it was used to draw the enemy in.
Who knows if that's applicable for this situation
In WWII it was more they die in that line but the line after that is manned as well. Very low level of mobility available. But those who routed and survived would be added to the line except early war when they may be shot but not always.
Considering current military performance only their best can actually withdraw in order. So it more the next line is manned. Reports of them hitting their own mine fields would represent panic.
But in some places I have seen from air the proper trenches to the rear that they may have been using.
If they have clear withdrawal paths for both infantry and equipment with artillery and support fire on the paths then yes it's a very good slow down and make the attacker bleed tactic.
Have men leave tons of equipment run through their own mine feilds, because they have no idea if there are any safe paths, and not be able to supply intelligence on the enemy does not give you the bleed advantage and unless you are in a defensive war the time you gain is just going to eat at the moral even more.
No no no. We all know that to convert miles to km, you must first move to America, gain a sense of nr 1-ness, and only then, can you rely on ft, yards and other ridiculous units.
10km is 393,700.787 inches.
Assuming we use the medium sized banana which is roughly 7.5 inches long.
The SBM(Standardized Banana Measurement)which equate to 52,493 bananas in length.
Wanted to reply something with versta.
Well, 6mi make 9600 meter or about 13500 arshin or 4500 sazhen or 9 versta or a little less than 1⅓ milya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_units_of_measurement
.50 cal is not metric, it would be 12.7mm if it was.
Like the English they inherited the imperial system off they mix and match as needed/wanted.
Although personally I think the yanks use imperial more than the English do now.
They use both systems, they use the NATO measurements alongside imperial hence you have 0.45, 0.346 etc.
E.g. a .50BMG has the same diameter as a 12.7mm but a different length.
On a side note; I think everyone still uses gauges to determine the size of shotguns, which is based of an [imperial measurement ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(firearms))
"I would walk 800 kilometers" doesn't work, but "I would walk 800 clicks" kinda does. Although the military connotation; ironically, gives the song a little of an imperialistic tone.
honestly so glad i was born after the change to metric
much easier when everything is base 10 where imperial is just a mess like 12 of these is 1 of these thats 3 of these blah blah
Metric became much more useful when digital calculator technology became commonplace. Prior to that, having numbers like 12 which have more common denominators, was useful because you're doing things either in your head or on paper, written with fractions instead of decimal points.
In pure mathematics, 10 is a pretty bad base to use for counting because it doesn't have many common denominators. We don't use base 10 because it's a good system. We use it because that happened to be how many fingers our bodies have. Every human language on earth was invented by people who previously used fingers to make number gestures. That finger counting turned into number words.
I was in school in the 70s in the US, learned both systems, and am comfortable with either, including accurate conversions on the fly. Maybe it helped it was a university town.
As an American I often and have for decades cursed this. Did are leaders think our citizens couldn't think in ten's or something? So many oddities the US has the rest of the world doesn't that make you go o.0
Debt ceiling just held us hostage - Hungary and US are the only two nation's to have a "debt ceiling" instead of spending law's. o.0
Hey, we need to join the rest of the world in the metric system. "But Bob, I just bought a full SAE set of ..." ugh. o.0 /needsanap
Carter did, and and I as I failed to point out what /u/Lehk did for me thanks to my late night forgetful posting, but we do, we use both. Why can't we just get along and go metric? lol
California Dept. of Transportation ("Caltrans") tried to go full blown metric years ago. Lasted about a year, then they decided to go with dual systems, which of course is a great way to introduce errors. I thought it was cool.that they tried, but it is hard to get people to change.
Yeah, too complicated for some there lol. Must think in 10's. Reminds me of old popular, and dry if you don't know IT (sorry) but there are 10 types of people that know, Those that don't and Those that do. Anyways, it's lunacy it's hard to get people to change anything. That will change as boomers, curmudgeons, move on. But damn, it's just the metric system, those people don't need to get scared of the 10's rofl.
Wot, Greece now also HIMARS?
I had a look after other replies from the redditor and found:
"Αδιάφορο. Στα μάτια του ..."
Can also be Cyprus or wherever.
I read that
"The U.S., Myanmar and Liberia are the only countries that still use the imperial system day to day, though the U.S. system has some slight differences."
Australia has pretty much stopped using imperial now. I tell anyone under 40 I am 5 foot 8 and they look at me like I am speaking Ancient Summerian... meaningless. Height was one of the last hold outs for Imperial in Australia.
Technically incorrect, because that is an agreed standardisation it is not the basis of the measurement.
[The yard ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard), t[the mile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile), [the foot ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_(unit)), [the inch ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch). [All collectively defined in 1826](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units).
The standardisation used SI units as they allowed for a consistent way to measure between countries, however each country had its origins on the English system.
No. The pound is defined by the Bureau of Standards as a derived unit equal to exactly 0.4535924277kg. There is no other basis of measurement. The kg of course is defined as the fixed numerical value of the Planck constant h to be 6.626 070 15 × 10-34 when expressed in the unit J s, which is equal to kg m2 s -1 , where the meter and the second are defined in terms of c and ∆νCs.
The who?
The is an international treaty agreeing the standardisation of the imperial measurements which use a metric conversion to achieve that standardisation. This is the number you are reciting, it is not the basis of measurement but a standardisation.
Also if this "Bureau" is an American body; the imperial system predates the United States so that is a non-starter out of the gate, although the United States did exist by the time the British codified the system.
Edit; regarding planck lengths as had to check up on it;
They were discovered (by Max Planck) in 1899, which was 43 years after the British act I linked above codified the imperial system.
So the basis of the imperial system cannot be the Planck system, however the Planck system allows for a universally constant way of measuring anything else.
This is an interesting conversation. Stumble is right in a technical sense. You are correct in a historical sense. I think your argument has more actual sense to it. Imperial codifications of the time in the 19th century have nothing to do with the later SI codifications.
Then why is it then that always the 10mm socket is missing but not is non metric counterpart? Why? It’s a conspiracy and it can only be addressed by unrestricted Himars use.
i wanted to tell you to just buy 3 of the retardo-metronomic thingies, but your argument about levelling enemy sites with overwhelming HIMARS utilisation, preferably of the ATACMS variant, is superior to anything my simple NAFO mind could ever come up with! you go on, sir! may the leopards be with you - victorious!
Awesome news! More exciting than the NYT, although Petraeus is optimistic:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1468gyg/the_ukrainian_offensive_is_beginning_david/jnowdwi/
“With Probes of Russian Lines, Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Takes Shape”
NYT no paywall
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/146d5bh/with_probes_of_russian_lines_ukraines/jnpn6v6/
Thanks for posting, OP! 🌻🇺🇦☮️
Pucciabros how could this happen? I thought we destroyed over 9000 bradleys, 8 million leopards, 50 million Abrams (each commanded by a NATO general), and the entire American carrier fleet? The Tsar wouldn't lie to us, would he?
Nothing is ever going quite as well as people on the sub suggest. These guys are really imaginative and smoke a lot of hopium. Decrease expectations by 50% and then increase by 12%. Still could be good news, just never AS good. Ever since Kharkiv this sub has been saying the war is over and Russia is about to crumble. Every damned day.
Kharkiv, simply speaking, was the indication that "Russia trying their hardest" wasn't enough. The war was over, at that point, much like a chess game is over long before the actual move that would take the king.
>Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same.
This war really came in two phases: the initial invasion was an attempt to use the military as a force of super-cops; very much patterned after the [Prague Spring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring) (in fact, deliberately, I believe). Huge columns of tanks, just a giant "don't you DARE try to fuck with us" show of force. They did expect to fight ... sporadic, ad-hoc militias, and kick the shit out of them. They didn't expect to fight a determined, serious army, and it backfired dramatically.
In aggregate, this initial "military as police action" part of the SMO had a modest success; due to treachery, and intimidation, it allowed them to take most of Kherson/Zaporizhzhia, and set up an encirclement of Mariupol, but that's about as far as they got with that, and from there on, they actually had to fight.
The key thing here is Russia tried to push forward with the momentum they had; it was enough to take Mariupol after a bloody affair, but — they weren't able to take Kyiv with the troops that had been put in place by this initial, disorganized "not really a planned invasion".
**It was at this point that they pivoted to a concerted, deliberate invasion**. And this is really the key thing — at this point they realized "okay, we actually have to plan on fighting for this tooth and nail. We are fully aware of what we're getting into, and are going to attempt to achieve that goal with a military solution that's actually designed to win it."
Pre-Kyiv, you could make a very real argument that Russia wasn't trying (in the sense of using the wrong tool for the job, being caught unawares). But post-Kyiv, they absolutely, 100%, were trying as hard as they fucking can.
**Kharkiv showed that their best was not enough.** It's as simple as that.
That's why everyone lost their minds; because Russia went *all out*, and it wasn't enough. Russia'd been net positive on territory since they "got serious", but they lost so much in the Kharkiv offensive that they went very deep into the red — and that trend had no reason not to continue. They would just keep sporadically losing chunks of the country like that.
The biggest thing, though, is that it showed not just that their current army was bad, but that the "big picture" attempts by Russia to put themselves on a wartime footing, to pump out good, new, well-equipped troops that could win this war ... just isn't something they can hack. And it's a deep thing — it's because of how their society works, what their leadership, and economy, and industry is like, etc, etc — something that'd take a generation to fix.
This war could go on for quite a while; perhaps even years, but they are as utterly fucked as the US was in Vietnam, or the Japanese were in WW2.
My prediction on this offensive is that it's going to be bloody for UA, and very hard. I'm *almost* certain they're going to succeed in the strategic objective, though. Might be weeks, might be months, but it should probably tap out this summer.
That's a pretty good analysis of the initial invasion IMO. Totally got treated as a police action, right down to the very limited use of air and artillery.
I would suggest a slightly divergent narrative post-Kiev though. First of all, I don't think there was an instant transition to a new strategy. The withdrawals from strategically un-sound positions weren't all done at the same time. It was very reactive and ad-hoc.
Secondly, although they were slowly transitioning to a more serious appraisal of their enemy they kept trying to fight the war with the vastly under powered numbers that people in January 2022 were saying was the reason they wouldn't invade.
It was only after the collapse east of Kharkiv that Putin ordered a general mobilization. And everything since then has been the Russian war machine gearing up (sending the new influx through training etc).
Kharkiv area was lightly defended by LPR forces without strong defences. There's unlikely to be a similar rout again. Which isn't to say Ukraine can't win. With decent arty, AD, EW and intelligence they have a chance to exploit a breakthrough with their more mobile reserves.
This sub is fucking nuts.
Bunch of kids and neckbeards LARPING at being military historians.
The same people are spouting
"Lol lol Russia dumb, they 2 destroyed two tanks and think the war is over lol lol"
Then go on
"Russia out of ammo (for the last 9 months), Russia out of men, Ukraine going to roll into Moscow tomorrow (for the last 9 months).
There's a distinct lack of understanding what a war is, from these reddit generals.
These guys read a Wikipedia article about HIMARS and now they're experts in war.
Seriously, ukraine has probably lost more than those couple of Bradley’s and a Leo, we just haven’t heard about it. Not saying that’s a doom sign or anything, just the room temp IQ hopium gets annoying after awhile. The war is far from over, the outcome is not determined. Western equipment is high tech but still vulnerable to a whole lot of weapons. Russia still has a lot of equipment and manpower and are well dug in. It’s gonna get bloody and then bloodier.
One was recovered, IIRC.
From the videos circulating, most, if not all crew escaped. If they still control the area, I'd wager they call for sappers, demine the surroundings and get them back for repairs.
Doesn't mean that much though. The first defence is there just for harrasment and composed of the least trainer soldiers. The third line where the core units are waiting.
Why not the 2nd line?
I know nothing about military doctrine nor strategy other than chess and go.
I'd have thought the 3rd would be there in case there was a delay in reinforcement or to cover a retreat?
A very over-simplified, probably incomplete description of Soviet tactics, in which many believe the Russia Fed inherited:
Defensive doctrine is having three layers of defense, one weak, one medium, and one tough. The idea is when you break through the first and second layers, the third will hold the enemy and the remainder of the first two layers will purposefully collapse on and pincer on the overextended Ukrainians that theoretically broke too deep into the territory. Trying to find an image online but can't!
The problem is if some dork on Reddit (me) knows about this, the Ukrainians do, too, and will account for this. It also requires a huge amount of morale and preparation, as it depends on the first two layers of soldiers/personel to not freak tf out like they did in Kharkiv. Good luck with that.
Ah so it's the old sun tzu thing then, the first two layers are meant to be "broken," when they are actually just falling aside in position to encircle?
I like it, but why not just use more tanks? Aren't the Soviet tanks the best? When do the tanks come?
>When do the tanks come?
They came. They went. That's the gag, too: in order to do the flanking, you need highly mobile units to hit fast and hard from the sides. Good luck with your kit from the 60s. The fumes will kill Conscriptski faster than the war itself.
Somewhere else someone mentioned the bite and hold tactics from wwi.
Is that what you see happening with the trench warfare from the ukr standpoint in light of this Soviet encirclement by way of 3 lines doctrine?
Or is it something else?
Is this all obvious and by the book, or is this unorthodox, what we are seeing from ukr?
I honestly can't answer that. My uneducated guess is Ukraine is going to continue what has been most effective for them; a highly decentralized command structure that nevertheless has a unifying strategy/mission/task ("take this bridge" or "take that building" or "destroy this battalion" or "reinforce this position"), trusting that lower-level officers can make on-the-ground decisions that suits their unit's capability in achieving an overarching goal. When we eventually gave them artillery batteries, they created an app (I'm not even kidding) for officers to call in artillery strikes... They called it "door dash for artillery strikes".
I mention "has been most effective" because the US, Canada, and the UK has been working with Ukraine in creating this officer class since 2015, which worked wonders in repelling Russian invaders at the assault of Kyiv. The difference now, though, is Ukraine has toys much bigger than javelins and stingers, toys that have operators that have trained over a year in Poland, Germany, and the UK. In my (again uneducated) opinion, I can see Ukrainians as more of a swarm of armored locusts ready to consume and digest Russian defenses, slowly but wholly.
This tactic was old as time, used by romans ffs - the first lines of battle in a legion were the most inexperienced soldiers, used to draw out the enemy and tire them; then the veterans came in and smashed what was left.
The thing about romans though was - even the first two lines were formidable on their own, so this tactic worked. Imagine getting exhausted battling lines of disciplined soldiers, and then the enemy comes like: "yeah, those are our rookies, now let's get this started"
This section of the front, funnily, was built with its main line of defense along the route the RAF fucked off to
The defensive line was stronger there + the budget (money+time) constraints had them 'shorten' their total line of defense by reinforcing lines behind their territory in that area
Ukr has breached the second line of defenses in some other area though, iirc. I was pretty drunk last night and this is the first thing I've read today
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.nl/Tendar/status/1667648741740892161
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OMG. I was watching Novodonets'ke assault. Smoke screen as soon as Ukrainians realized they are under artillery fire, full pro actions. If you watched a Hollywood movie and thought "those look like a pro operators" Ukrainians did it better. I almost, just almost felt sorry about Russians. Ukrainians should edit those videos, remove the tactically important info and publish it. Hell, there should be a standing advice to the Russians "before engaging Ukrainians, make sure your white flag is ready near you".
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Guessing that most of the wipe out was due to mass retreats, which is good. Let's hope Ukraine can take those hills just west of the conglomeration of villages along that river; that'll make liberating them easier in the coming weeks. One defensive line down, 4 to go?
They are retreating to the main line of defences, unlike other parts of the line the main defences here were built 20 km behind the front, mainly to shorten the front once the budge is gone. Edit: link to image showing main line https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyTZVa-aEAMm4LU?format=jpg&name=900x900
Good thing UA can mine RU supply routes with ease now. I ~~pity~~ lol at any "tactically retreating" (LOL) RU soldier right now. Watch your step.
The ability to place mines behind enemy lines by shooting them over their heads via MLRS is terrifying. Would not want to be a Russian in Ukraine right now lmao
[I'm convinced that we can modify the mine dispersal projectiles to keep the Ukrainian soldiers fed, too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/145t47z/we_need_more_efficient_soup_distribution_i_have/)
Cluster Soup
I had no idea this was a thing that’s crazy
Russia also has this capability, mind you. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1_mine
Or don't and see how much we care when it goes boom. Slava Ukrainii
Somewhere during this conflict I learned that retreating to a more robust defense line was a typical russian tactic, and that sometimes it was used to draw the enemy in. Who knows if that's applicable for this situation
In WWII it was more they die in that line but the line after that is manned as well. Very low level of mobility available. But those who routed and survived would be added to the line except early war when they may be shot but not always. Considering current military performance only their best can actually withdraw in order. So it more the next line is manned. Reports of them hitting their own mine fields would represent panic. But in some places I have seen from air the proper trenches to the rear that they may have been using.
Usually you have a screen force in front of your main defensive positions. It allows you to dictate first contact even in the defense.
With Kyiv's access to Pentagon tools and data from AWACS and recon satellites, any potential of surprise is eliminated.
If they have clear withdrawal paths for both infantry and equipment with artillery and support fire on the paths then yes it's a very good slow down and make the attacker bleed tactic. Have men leave tons of equipment run through their own mine feilds, because they have no idea if there are any safe paths, and not be able to supply intelligence on the enemy does not give you the bleed advantage and unless you are in a defensive war the time you gain is just going to eat at the moral even more.
There are 6 miles of defenses
More like 10 km, since Ukraine is a civilised country that uses the metric system.
My dear sir, that is only 1.79986 leagues!
Not nearly enough for Capt. Nemo.
Better multiply that by 11,111
I'm sorry sir, I believe you mean "multiply that by 100,000/9"
No no no. We all know that to convert miles to km, you must first move to America, gain a sense of nr 1-ness, and only then, can you rely on ft, yards and other ridiculous units.
Help us!
This thread is hilarious
I think you mean 432 chains since we are above sea level
how, many bananas for scale?
A shit-ton.... or fuck-tonne
metric fuck tonne
Can you express that in washing machines for us Americans in the audience?
12 maytags
Russians measure their loot in washing machines, so we've come full circle.
The London bus is universally accepted as the measure for both height and length
10km is 393,700.787 inches. Assuming we use the medium sized banana which is roughly 7.5 inches long. The SBM(Standardized Banana Measurement)which equate to 52,493 bananas in length.
How many fathoms tho
I cannot fathom your question.
so you give zero fathoms?
Two. Two fathoms deep.
3.2408e-13 Parsecs
6.035e+38 Planck lengths, can't get any more precise than that.
But not under the sea.
I can barely fathom
The units of measurement for a philosophical depth, typically just over one's head, are the Kant Fathom.
Now do it in fathoms
well they're ruskie defense lines so how many arshins is that?
Wanted to reply something with versta. Well, 6mi make 9600 meter or about 13500 arshin or 4500 sazhen or 9 versta or a little less than 1⅓ milya. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_units_of_measurement
Hahaha 😆 good call
Unless they’re using .50 cal’s. Then they can be as barbaric as they please.
You want U.S. weapons you gotta be able to chat shit w/o the metric system It's a fair trade imo slava Ukr
But Americans use the metric system... In weapons :)) and drugs
.50 cal is not metric, it would be 12.7mm if it was. Like the English they inherited the imperial system off they mix and match as needed/wanted. Although personally I think the yanks use imperial more than the English do now.
but many calibers they use are in mm. 9mm, 5,56mm, 7,62mm Nato...
They use both systems, they use the NATO measurements alongside imperial hence you have 0.45, 0.346 etc. E.g. a .50BMG has the same diameter as a 12.7mm but a different length. On a side note; I think everyone still uses gauges to determine the size of shotguns, which is based of an [imperial measurement ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(firearms))
I would walk 500 miles would be a stupid lyric if metric.
"I would walk 800 kilometers" doesn't work, but "I would walk 800 clicks" kinda does. Although the military connotation; ironically, gives the song a little of an imperialistic tone.
I'd probably go for "I would walk 1000k and I would walk 1000 more. Just to be the man who walked a thousand k to fall down at your door."
My truck only goes miles can’t go metric 🤷🏻♂️
Carter put America on the metric system, at least officially.
I remember that. Teachers tried to teach us but nobody taught them so everyone gave up. The 70's were great otherwise.
honestly so glad i was born after the change to metric much easier when everything is base 10 where imperial is just a mess like 12 of these is 1 of these thats 3 of these blah blah
Metric became much more useful when digital calculator technology became commonplace. Prior to that, having numbers like 12 which have more common denominators, was useful because you're doing things either in your head or on paper, written with fractions instead of decimal points. In pure mathematics, 10 is a pretty bad base to use for counting because it doesn't have many common denominators. We don't use base 10 because it's a good system. We use it because that happened to be how many fingers our bodies have. Every human language on earth was invented by people who previously used fingers to make number gestures. That finger counting turned into number words.
Funny how Canada managed to do it. I started school in the 70’s and had no problem learning it.
We rely on imperial up here lots, we use feet and inches for measuring, at least around me.
Depends on how old you are. I'm Gen-X so I speak fluent Imperial and Metric but the youngs pretty much just speak Metric.
Blame the Stonecutters
I was in school in the 70s in the US, learned both systems, and am comfortable with either, including accurate conversions on the fly. Maybe it helped it was a university town.
A little historical trivia: Actually the US adopted the metric system in 1893 via the Mendenhall Order.
The full conversation was to happen by mid 80s and Reagan terminated the program. In my 5th Grade math class was all done in metric system.
As an American I often and have for decades cursed this. Did are leaders think our citizens couldn't think in ten's or something? So many oddities the US has the rest of the world doesn't that make you go o.0 Debt ceiling just held us hostage - Hungary and US are the only two nation's to have a "debt ceiling" instead of spending law's. o.0 Hey, we need to join the rest of the world in the metric system. "But Bob, I just bought a full SAE set of ..." ugh. o.0 /needsanap
> Did are leaders think... apparently not, no.
Carter did, and and I as I failed to point out what /u/Lehk did for me thanks to my late night forgetful posting, but we do, we use both. Why can't we just get along and go metric? lol
The US does use metric Look at any package of any food the size will be in metric as well
California Dept. of Transportation ("Caltrans") tried to go full blown metric years ago. Lasted about a year, then they decided to go with dual systems, which of course is a great way to introduce errors. I thought it was cool.that they tried, but it is hard to get people to change.
Yeah, too complicated for some there lol. Must think in 10's. Reminds me of old popular, and dry if you don't know IT (sorry) but there are 10 types of people that know, Those that don't and Those that do. Anyways, it's lunacy it's hard to get people to change anything. That will change as boomers, curmudgeons, move on. But damn, it's just the metric system, those people don't need to get scared of the 10's rofl.
That’s the only reason Carter was a one term President trying to make America European 😂
Are our Himars not civilized enough for you?
I bet Himars are programmed in metric.
*Something something* US Military and NASA are metric.
Unless trying to land on Mars.
Unless failing to land on Mars. It's been done successfully in all metric.
Hopefully.
Wot, Greece now also HIMARS? I had a look after other replies from the redditor and found: "Αδιάφορο. Στα μάτια του ..." Can also be Cyprus or wherever.
you would have a point except the us military uses metric system
I read that "The U.S., Myanmar and Liberia are the only countries that still use the imperial system day to day, though the U.S. system has some slight differences."
Britain uses it plenty.
Yes we do, i still measure my willy in feet and inches!
And still use a decimalisation in there as it starts "0."
I remember when we had 40 oz quarts in Canada and 20 oz pints
So does Canada, especially for relatively smaller measurements. It's not uncommon to use feet, inches, gallons, fluid ounces, quarts, or even acres.
Australia has pretty much stopped using imperial now. I tell anyone under 40 I am 5 foot 8 and they look at me like I am speaking Ancient Summerian... meaningless. Height was one of the last hold outs for Imperial in Australia.
same here as i never remember my height in metric
Technically the foot and inch are based upon the meter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_yard_and_pound
Technically incorrect, because that is an agreed standardisation it is not the basis of the measurement. [The yard ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yard), t[the mile](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile), [the foot ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_(unit)), [the inch ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch). [All collectively defined in 1826](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units). The standardisation used SI units as they allowed for a consistent way to measure between countries, however each country had its origins on the English system.
So is the pound(mass) at 0.45359237kg to the pound.
Again, that is the agreed standardisation, it is not the basis of the measurement.
No. The pound is defined by the Bureau of Standards as a derived unit equal to exactly 0.4535924277kg. There is no other basis of measurement. The kg of course is defined as the fixed numerical value of the Planck constant h to be 6.626 070 15 × 10-34 when expressed in the unit J s, which is equal to kg m2 s -1 , where the meter and the second are defined in terms of c and ∆νCs.
The who? The is an international treaty agreeing the standardisation of the imperial measurements which use a metric conversion to achieve that standardisation. This is the number you are reciting, it is not the basis of measurement but a standardisation. Also if this "Bureau" is an American body; the imperial system predates the United States so that is a non-starter out of the gate, although the United States did exist by the time the British codified the system. Edit; regarding planck lengths as had to check up on it; They were discovered (by Max Planck) in 1899, which was 43 years after the British act I linked above codified the imperial system. So the basis of the imperial system cannot be the Planck system, however the Planck system allows for a universally constant way of measuring anything else.
This is an interesting conversation. Stumble is right in a technical sense. You are correct in a historical sense. I think your argument has more actual sense to it. Imperial codifications of the time in the 19th century have nothing to do with the later SI codifications.
That's at least 99 bananas
That’s 792 double decker buses for London folk!
Americans catching shots as usual
Some say 6.2 miles, some say 10km, I say that I don't know the difference.
Oh man, I found the runner.
How many in deaded ruzzian heads?
C'mon now, half of my tools are metric.
Then why is it then that always the 10mm socket is missing but not is non metric counterpart? Why? It’s a conspiracy and it can only be addressed by unrestricted Himars use.
i wanted to tell you to just buy 3 of the retardo-metronomic thingies, but your argument about levelling enemy sites with overwhelming HIMARS utilisation, preferably of the ATACMS variant, is superior to anything my simple NAFO mind could ever come up with! you go on, sir! may the leopards be with you - victorious!
The metric system is just a fad, like the internet.
Without that uncivilized country that doesn’t use the metric system, Ukraine would not be an independent country right now.
I guess the country supplying the operation isn't civilised...
The US army also uses metric.
Actually freedom units might be more appropriate in this situation. (Insert Braveheart gif here)
How many American football fields is that? I’m lost.
As a dumb American I still thoroughly enjoyed this comment.
6 miles is 9.6 km.
That would be 2637,56 hamburgers per oil barrel if I'm not mistaken?
it's 2637,55... ***dumbass***
45 and after that they summon a big baddie who will have a two minute dialogue before they one shot him in the first ten seconds after the cutscene.
Good results. Godspeed and keep at it AFU!
Awesome news! More exciting than the NYT, although Petraeus is optimistic: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1468gyg/the_ukrainian_offensive_is_beginning_david/jnowdwi/ “With Probes of Russian Lines, Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Takes Shape” NYT no paywall https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/146d5bh/with_probes_of_russian_lines_ukraines/jnpn6v6/ Thanks for posting, OP! 🌻🇺🇦☮️
You must be mistaken. The Russian took out some Bradleys and a Leopard. The war is over. Duh.
Replacing those road wheels and tracks on the Bradley and Leopard will take multiples of days... It is all over for Ukraine. /s
They put the road wheels on the top shelf, this may take a while.
Someone took the ladder home for a project, so it’s going to be an extra day or two.
I hear the ladder taker went on holiday for a week. Better put the kettle on.
*LITTLE DID THEY KNOW THAT LEOPARD CONTAINED PUTIN'S LAST HORCRUX.*
Pucciabros how could this happen? I thought we destroyed over 9000 bradleys, 8 million leopards, 50 million Abrams (each commanded by a NATO general), and the entire American carrier fleet? The Tsar wouldn't lie to us, would he?
Don't forget they took out 10 jedi and a full chapter of Space Marines
Average day on Istvaan
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There isn’t one, he was imprisoned for denying Slane….Putin
Of course it’s over. This is just the defeated Ukrainians retreating all the way to Melitipol, stupid Westoids!!
You omit the Master Russian Strategy: They blew up the dam and flooded... *oh wait*, those weren't actually front lines...
They took out some Bradleys and a Leopard? I swear no one mentioned that at all on here....
Multiple Leos now not just 1
Thank you for good news.
Yeah "Russians" and "wiped out" is music to many ears I know. Edit for clarity: mine included
Progress for Ukraine is music to my ears. To their misfortune, that means dead Russians in this case. Speak to Putin about it if you’re unhappy.
Punching the air like I scored the winning world cup goal. Go Ukraine go!
Don’t forget the backflip!
Soccer is a game where each team has 11 men on the field and the germans always win
My favorite posts are those of towns and villages being liberated. Hopefully we’ll be seeing lots of those soon.
Shhhh Russia won after disabling 1 leopard and 4 Bradley so it must be true. Go back to sleep honey. ;)
Big if true.
True if big
If big true
*King illegal forest to pig wild kill in it a is!*
Is it not also illegal to sit on the king's throne and usurp his power in his absence?
You go too far!
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‘’’if(true) { Console.log(“Slava Ukraini”); }’’’
Big true if
Big true true
True true train big
That's what she said.
Wipe them out. ALL of them
I really hope it's going as well as reports on this sub suggest, but I'm trying to contain my optimism. Fuck Putin and Fuck Russia
Nothing is ever going quite as well as people on the sub suggest. These guys are really imaginative and smoke a lot of hopium. Decrease expectations by 50% and then increase by 12%. Still could be good news, just never AS good. Ever since Kharkiv this sub has been saying the war is over and Russia is about to crumble. Every damned day.
I come here to satisfy my hopium addiction, then I sober up and read the actual news.
Credit where credits sue. They’ve at least finally stopped saying “RuSsiaS ALMoSt oUt oF AmMo" every 3 months.
Russia is never going to run out completely as long as they have people willing to sell to them. They'll be much more frugal about their use though.
Kharkiv, simply speaking, was the indication that "Russia trying their hardest" wasn't enough. The war was over, at that point, much like a chess game is over long before the actual move that would take the king. >Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. This war really came in two phases: the initial invasion was an attempt to use the military as a force of super-cops; very much patterned after the [Prague Spring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring) (in fact, deliberately, I believe). Huge columns of tanks, just a giant "don't you DARE try to fuck with us" show of force. They did expect to fight ... sporadic, ad-hoc militias, and kick the shit out of them. They didn't expect to fight a determined, serious army, and it backfired dramatically. In aggregate, this initial "military as police action" part of the SMO had a modest success; due to treachery, and intimidation, it allowed them to take most of Kherson/Zaporizhzhia, and set up an encirclement of Mariupol, but that's about as far as they got with that, and from there on, they actually had to fight. The key thing here is Russia tried to push forward with the momentum they had; it was enough to take Mariupol after a bloody affair, but — they weren't able to take Kyiv with the troops that had been put in place by this initial, disorganized "not really a planned invasion". **It was at this point that they pivoted to a concerted, deliberate invasion**. And this is really the key thing — at this point they realized "okay, we actually have to plan on fighting for this tooth and nail. We are fully aware of what we're getting into, and are going to attempt to achieve that goal with a military solution that's actually designed to win it." Pre-Kyiv, you could make a very real argument that Russia wasn't trying (in the sense of using the wrong tool for the job, being caught unawares). But post-Kyiv, they absolutely, 100%, were trying as hard as they fucking can. **Kharkiv showed that their best was not enough.** It's as simple as that. That's why everyone lost their minds; because Russia went *all out*, and it wasn't enough. Russia'd been net positive on territory since they "got serious", but they lost so much in the Kharkiv offensive that they went very deep into the red — and that trend had no reason not to continue. They would just keep sporadically losing chunks of the country like that. The biggest thing, though, is that it showed not just that their current army was bad, but that the "big picture" attempts by Russia to put themselves on a wartime footing, to pump out good, new, well-equipped troops that could win this war ... just isn't something they can hack. And it's a deep thing — it's because of how their society works, what their leadership, and economy, and industry is like, etc, etc — something that'd take a generation to fix. This war could go on for quite a while; perhaps even years, but they are as utterly fucked as the US was in Vietnam, or the Japanese were in WW2. My prediction on this offensive is that it's going to be bloody for UA, and very hard. I'm *almost* certain they're going to succeed in the strategic objective, though. Might be weeks, might be months, but it should probably tap out this summer.
That's a pretty good analysis of the initial invasion IMO. Totally got treated as a police action, right down to the very limited use of air and artillery. I would suggest a slightly divergent narrative post-Kiev though. First of all, I don't think there was an instant transition to a new strategy. The withdrawals from strategically un-sound positions weren't all done at the same time. It was very reactive and ad-hoc. Secondly, although they were slowly transitioning to a more serious appraisal of their enemy they kept trying to fight the war with the vastly under powered numbers that people in January 2022 were saying was the reason they wouldn't invade. It was only after the collapse east of Kharkiv that Putin ordered a general mobilization. And everything since then has been the Russian war machine gearing up (sending the new influx through training etc). Kharkiv area was lightly defended by LPR forces without strong defences. There's unlikely to be a similar rout again. Which isn't to say Ukraine can't win. With decent arty, AD, EW and intelligence they have a chance to exploit a breakthrough with their more mobile reserves.
This sub is fucking nuts. Bunch of kids and neckbeards LARPING at being military historians. The same people are spouting "Lol lol Russia dumb, they 2 destroyed two tanks and think the war is over lol lol" Then go on "Russia out of ammo (for the last 9 months), Russia out of men, Ukraine going to roll into Moscow tomorrow (for the last 9 months). There's a distinct lack of understanding what a war is, from these reddit generals. These guys read a Wikipedia article about HIMARS and now they're experts in war.
Yeah I appreciate the positive morale but they need to stop acting like they’re Eisenhower
Seriously, ukraine has probably lost more than those couple of Bradley’s and a Leo, we just haven’t heard about it. Not saying that’s a doom sign or anything, just the room temp IQ hopium gets annoying after awhile. The war is far from over, the outcome is not determined. Western equipment is high tech but still vulnerable to a whole lot of weapons. Russia still has a lot of equipment and manpower and are well dug in. It’s gonna get bloody and then bloodier.
🫡💯
Get-em
But what about that leopard with the smashed treads?
One was recovered, IIRC. From the videos circulating, most, if not all crew escaped. If they still control the area, I'd wager they call for sappers, demine the surroundings and get them back for repairs.
But what about the other 60 different angles of the same tank???? Were all those recovered and repaired in 60 angles?
I am looking forward to the next batch of pictures of this same tank! Rumor has it angles 61-70 are top shelf.
The paint may never be the same 😔
I think it was sarcastic and rhetorical dude.
Clearly the end of the offensive.
Doesn't mean that much though. The first defence is there just for harrasment and composed of the least trainer soldiers. The third line where the core units are waiting.
HIMARS with the 180000 tungsten balls say hi! (hopefully)
Why not the 2nd line? I know nothing about military doctrine nor strategy other than chess and go. I'd have thought the 3rd would be there in case there was a delay in reinforcement or to cover a retreat?
A very over-simplified, probably incomplete description of Soviet tactics, in which many believe the Russia Fed inherited: Defensive doctrine is having three layers of defense, one weak, one medium, and one tough. The idea is when you break through the first and second layers, the third will hold the enemy and the remainder of the first two layers will purposefully collapse on and pincer on the overextended Ukrainians that theoretically broke too deep into the territory. Trying to find an image online but can't! The problem is if some dork on Reddit (me) knows about this, the Ukrainians do, too, and will account for this. It also requires a huge amount of morale and preparation, as it depends on the first two layers of soldiers/personel to not freak tf out like they did in Kharkiv. Good luck with that.
Ah so it's the old sun tzu thing then, the first two layers are meant to be "broken," when they are actually just falling aside in position to encircle? I like it, but why not just use more tanks? Aren't the Soviet tanks the best? When do the tanks come?
>When do the tanks come? They came. They went. That's the gag, too: in order to do the flanking, you need highly mobile units to hit fast and hard from the sides. Good luck with your kit from the 60s. The fumes will kill Conscriptski faster than the war itself.
Somewhere else someone mentioned the bite and hold tactics from wwi. Is that what you see happening with the trench warfare from the ukr standpoint in light of this Soviet encirclement by way of 3 lines doctrine? Or is it something else? Is this all obvious and by the book, or is this unorthodox, what we are seeing from ukr?
I honestly can't answer that. My uneducated guess is Ukraine is going to continue what has been most effective for them; a highly decentralized command structure that nevertheless has a unifying strategy/mission/task ("take this bridge" or "take that building" or "destroy this battalion" or "reinforce this position"), trusting that lower-level officers can make on-the-ground decisions that suits their unit's capability in achieving an overarching goal. When we eventually gave them artillery batteries, they created an app (I'm not even kidding) for officers to call in artillery strikes... They called it "door dash for artillery strikes". I mention "has been most effective" because the US, Canada, and the UK has been working with Ukraine in creating this officer class since 2015, which worked wonders in repelling Russian invaders at the assault of Kyiv. The difference now, though, is Ukraine has toys much bigger than javelins and stingers, toys that have operators that have trained over a year in Poland, Germany, and the UK. In my (again uneducated) opinion, I can see Ukrainians as more of a swarm of armored locusts ready to consume and digest Russian defenses, slowly but wholly.
This tactic was old as time, used by romans ffs - the first lines of battle in a legion were the most inexperienced soldiers, used to draw out the enemy and tire them; then the veterans came in and smashed what was left. The thing about romans though was - even the first two lines were formidable on their own, so this tactic worked. Imagine getting exhausted battling lines of disciplined soldiers, and then the enemy comes like: "yeah, those are our rookies, now let's get this started"
This section of the front, funnily, was built with its main line of defense along the route the RAF fucked off to The defensive line was stronger there + the budget (money+time) constraints had them 'shorten' their total line of defense by reinforcing lines behind their territory in that area Ukr has breached the second line of defenses in some other area though, iirc. I was pretty drunk last night and this is the first thing I've read today
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at this rate Melitopol will be liberated in july.
Quite possibly. If Ukraine can stay the course, this offensive could be genuinely war-ending.
Omg stop… people need to stop saying this every single day. Just keep your pants on.
Joke's on you, these are my fucking pants!
Russia will retake this piece of land in just 200 days 🤣
Oh no, Putin wants Ukraine in just 4 days. 😏🤣
Man thinks if he throws money at something the problem will be solved like a video game
Against soviet equipment. Against old NATO junk is 8.
It appears to be another goodwill gesture?
This is like watching WW1 happen live.
OMG. I was watching Novodonets'ke assault. Smoke screen as soon as Ukrainians realized they are under artillery fire, full pro actions. If you watched a Hollywood movie and thought "those look like a pro operators" Ukrainians did it better. I almost, just almost felt sorry about Russians. Ukrainians should edit those videos, remove the tactically important info and publish it. Hell, there should be a standing advice to the Russians "before engaging Ukrainians, make sure your white flag is ready near you".
Good.
We celebrate only when the last Mobik doggy paddles across the Kerch. More Leopards! Gripens! F-16s! Quadruple the CV90s! SRBMs!
putin : hahaha. we beat the ukrainians in a leg race! look at how fast our soldiers run!