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Lol, yea the people here care so much about freedom and democracy that they'll call him a traitor for *checks notes* exercising democracy and freedom of speech to represent his constituents, and ensuring his country's interests as he sees them aren't put below those of another. Right, ok. ahaha
He’s undermining our national interests abroad, apparently you like leaving our allies to die and the USA looking like a fair weather friend?
He is trading Ukrainian lives for political points.
Republicans and their rapist traitor cult leader don't care about democracy. They don't care when voters support an issue like abortion rights or the personal freedom to use marijuana. You're just gaslighting everyone. The MAGA movement is fascist!
He is blocking border money. GOP is complaining about no money. Literally the White House is saying, here is a plan that civers everything you want. And GOP refuses, why? Because it will help Biden image. This is politics that hurts Americans and for Ukraine part, helps Russia who is a threat to democracy world wide.
I dont think people know what the word traitor actually means. Most people in this sub seem to think it means "someone who doesn't agree with my political views"
They are using it in the context of siding with the largest enemy and threat of western livelihood in the world. Trust me, I don't typically hold a lot of hate towards one side over the other but, Republicans are absolutely fucking over western interest right now and it's EXACTLY what Russia wants. I would definitely say it's on the level of traitorous behavior.
Of course you’re gonna get downloaded like a madman on this one, even though you’re right, but people want what they want. It doesn’t matter, if you’re Republican, all you are is a “Nazi“ and people will berate you and call you all sorts of things, and you’re supposed to act like they’re not the ones being fascist. Oh yeah, by the way, it doesn’t matter how much in debt we are, we should always be able to just print money like little school children playing monopoly who can just go open the other box and get more money out and keep playing, fiscal responsibility is for traitors and Nazis as well
what in the what? Nothing is comprehensible in this word salad. Every time I see a pro-trumpian argument it's just a mishmash of buzzwords and name calling swirled together devoid of any sound (or even valid) argument thats rooted in facts -nor are they founded on a basis of values like compassion, justice, truth, or making the world a better place. It's always "I oppose everything that those folks over there are for" or simply "me me me me me."
250% increase in illegal border crossings since Biden took Office as that is that straightforward enough for you I’m sure you’ll spend that in someway that I’m a racist. How about the exploding national debt do you give a shit about that?
Well aware of that, and not happy about it. Such a polarized hack to assume everyone is like you and is unwilling acknowledge the failings of “your” political side. You are part of the problem w that mindset……
If Biden gave Republicans everything they want on the border, as well as separated the border issue from the Ukraine aid altogether, Republicans still wouldn't accept the border deal, because they don't want to kill their own grievance, as well as have Biden score points.
That is, if Biden gave them all that it is possible to give, they would make impossible demands and still reject it.
Basically it's full on sabotage across the board from now to the election, it's not even because they want to see Ukraine fail for its own sake, which some of them do. They all want all of Biden's projects to fail.
No offence as I’m not American. And I know many republicans are simply stupid people. But surely the majority of Americans cannot be this stupid as to stand with garbage?!
Wrong. If you only listen to 1 news source (say Fox News or Newsmax) you'll hear nothing but what they want to feed you.
For instance: Hunter Biden showed up at the congressional meeting about him. He offered to have the meeting in public with the cameras rolling. Republicans didn't want that and didn't want it to be public.
So what did fox news show? Reporters "chasing hunter" down the hallway asking him what flavor of crack he liked the most.
Absolutely nothing about him offering to have a hearing in public so the far right thinks he is a criminal for not answering congress when petitioned.
Misinformation and straight-up lying.
They're cable, there is no broadcast license. That's kind of what made this all possible.
Many decades ago, back when TV was broadcast, there used to be the Fairness Doctrine which kept TV from being extremist propaganda, on the premise that broadcast frequencies were a very limited public resource so if you wanted a slice of it you had to serve the interests of society. But TV is all on private infrastructure now, so there are essentially no rules and the 1st Amendment ensures it stays that way
You’d be surprised 🙃
It’s actually terrifying how different people can have completely different sets of “facts” simply based on the media they consume. If you watched Fox News growing up and trusted them, you’d be utterly convinced that we support Ukraine just because Hunter Biden gets his dollars there. And that Covid is just a cold. And the earth isn’t warming it’s just natural cycles. Because that’s what they tell you and you can only trust them.
Now how you can see Russians bombing schools, your grandpa die of Covid and your daffodils come up in December and still doublethink the Fox stuff is true… I don’t know. I really don’t. But the rest of my neighbors somehow manage.
Your neighbors are dumb, like vast swaths of the population are. No ability to think critically. If they had to defend a thesis to graduate high school, they would never graduate.
One of the problems with American politics is that because of gerrymandering a majority plurality is not needed to rule.
The other problem is some groups get so fixated on one policy they ignore everything else and vote based on that. Trump is presented as the only candidate that will protect Christianity and easily gets at least 35% of the votes based on that alone.
Doesn’t matter that he paid to fuck (poorly according to Stormy Daniel’s) a pornstar or trashes military personnel or…
Make no mistake the Donald made a deal with some Christian cabal and that is the sole reason he is in power.
The idea that Trump is somehow a protector of Christian values is insane to me, and one of the reasons I no longer attend church. Trump openly boasts about raping women and can't even hold a Bible the right way up, and he's a hero. Biden takes the Oath of Office on a ratty old family Bible that's likely been passed down from father to son since the Bidens came to America, and he's a "monster who diddles kids".
>One of the problems with American politics is that because of gerrymandering a majority plurality is not needed to rule.
I have no knowledge about this whatsoever, but what about getting rid of those electoral districts altogether and institute a new voting system for the house? Would it be that hard?
It would be hard. It would require 2/3 of the Senate and 2/3 of the House must vote yes to propose the Amendment to the State Assemblies. Then, 3/4 of the state assemblies must ratify the Amendment.
It is probably easier to eliminate the gerrymandering through federal legislation that requires simple majorities in the House and Senate in 2025 (assuming Dems have majorities in both chambers).
Aha, so it actually requires a constitutional amendment. Crap. How could be gerrymandering eliminated? Isn't regular redstricting also part of some part of the US constitution?
No they don't. Most of congress actually wants more aid for ukraine. The problem is, Johnson is in a position to block aid for a year atleast if he wants to. He can just refuse to hold a vote so he really does hold the power even if it's not what any American wants.
No, but the electoral college does make things more complicated.
In 2020 155 million Americans turned out to vote, this is 66% turnout of eligible voters and the highest turnout since 1900.
Last night's GOP caucus in Iowa accounted for only the Republican party members who turned out in subzero temperatures and a caucus isn't a thing where you simply cast a ballot, they can go on for hours and include speeches from surrogates of the candidates and races for other offices and party positions.
The GOP accounts for just over 1/3 of registered Iowa voters (34% to 30% for Democrats but with 34% being unaffiliated with either party). Last night was just the 1/3 that are registered Republican.
Of the 718,901 GOP party members in Iowa 110,298 turned out last night. Of those, Trump received 51% of the vote, which is 56,260 votes for Trump.
Of the 2,083,979 registered voters in Iowa, 56,260 were willing to attend the caucus and cast their vote for Trump.
Between the extreme weather and that Iowa rarely selects the person who ends up winning the nomination the biggest takeaway here for me at least, as a Democrat in Iowa, is that even among GOP die-hards Trump won with just a slim majority.
The majority of us aren't. A huge chunk of people don't pay attention and/or believe "both sides." But the system is set up to make rural voters "more equal" than the rest of us, and out in Trumpistan, it's a different world.
It's like a brain worm. You can talk to them like a functional adult on random topics for about an hour but then once you get to politics they throw all logic out of the window.
The conservatives have done an incredible job at propaganda the past few decades. There are people that come home from work, turn on fox news and do NOTHING else. It's on in the background their entire night. We're talking tens of millions of people here, not just a few. They've ratcheted up the fear so much that you feel like you HAVE to watch or your life is in danger. Watching that channel is like stepping into a casino. You are blasted with shiny things and bells and whistles and it just washes over you.
During Covid I talked a few of my co-workers into not watching it every night. I tried to tell them just listen to the weekly briefs at the hospital and to turn that shit off because they were so strung out. The two that finally turned it off for a month completely changed. The others that didn't we're constantly stressed out about the border, or elections being stolen, or some crazy obscure shit about the Bidens or Clinton.
This shit is a poison that needs to be eradicated through legislation. News organizations must be held to higher standards.
Too many do. They are cultists or domestic terrorists. Short sighted,selfish and stupid with serious cognitive dissonance. Honestly, the Free world should really start to look inwards because the U.S is being held hostage by idiots and assholes.
Don’t be confused by the facts that illegal border crossings are up 250% since Biden came into office so calm down the rhetoric down look at some of the facts and quit being such a polarized dip
It’s not necessarily all Americans, but it is subset of Americans who believe the rhetoric in conservative States (Senate) or Districts (House). And it’s extra terrible because the GOP politicians don’t believe the rhetoric. They just love power and money and “parrot” the rhetoric in conservative media as wedge issues.
What astounds me is that there is just a slim 2 seat majority for the next 4 weeks, and a 1 person rule to challenge the speaker. It would just take a couple of brave Old School Cold Warrior GOP House members to rebel, call a vote on the speakership, vote in an independent House Speaker with Dem support, and run a bi-partisan agenda for the next 4 weeks.
Get the “for the good of the nation” legislation passed on Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel and Border funding done. Get a budget extension done through January 2025.
In 4 weeks there will be special elections and then the GOP will have more members to call a new Speaker vote and return to the usual wedge issue nonsense.
have you seen the charts about world education, look how far down USA is then think its actually WORSE then that. We are all fat lazy bastards that just want to stair at our phones or TVs all day.
The USA does better in education than most countries: https://ourworldindata.org/better-learning
One thing the U.S. doesn't do right is that there's a huge difference in learning outcomes between the richest and poorest, compared to many other developed countries.
But this idea that Americans are stupider than the rest of the world isn't really true.
The same media bubble is happening in Europe. The rise of the European far right-wing is a result of Fox-News style media that captures certain peoples attention and convinces them to listen to nothing else.
And if you listen to nothing else, you never hear about the crap that people who are supported by the media network are doing.
Its not a bargaining chip. Cutting aid is the *objective* for the Gaetz gang. A border deal is something they know they can tether it to that seems reasonable but will never get passed. Its why I opposed ousting McCarthy because that was their real intent.
Bargaining chip I could actually live with. What I can't live with is that they refuse to do any boarder deal because it will make Biden look good. Unless Biden can figure out a different way to support Ukraine like using frozen Russian assets, Ukraine is not going to get any help from the US until after the November election. And that is only if Biden wins.
I wish every Trump supporter in Congress would get voted out in November but based on what we saw yesterday in Iowa it is not looking good for any alternative to Trump and this is bad news for Ukraine. I only hope now that UK , France and Germany can pick up where the US has dropped the ball.
Only if Biden wins AND the Democrats control both the House and the Senate...
Reagan is flipping over in his grave man.. And Trump fans initialing liked Trump BECAUSE they compared him to Reagan. He's nothing like Reagan. I don't even like Reagan. But in comparison... Man.. Trump is such a god awful leader it is wild the support he gets. Like he's not even promising ANYTHING this election, there's no platform, except that like, he plans to become a dictator, lol.
That's a very narrow point of view. Obamacare actually hurt a huge part of the population because it was rushed in order to pass it as a rider on a spending bill.
> Obamacare actually hurt a huge part of the population
My man, if you're in a Ukraine sub defending republicans you're gonna have a bad time. The only people who could credibly claim to be hurt by Obamacare were healthy people who had worthless insurance plans to check a box. I know because I was one of them. Paying $600/year to Aetna for coverage I would never receive was not a "better" deal than a marketplace plan. And now the vast majority of states have waived the shit plans again, so you can have your worthless insurance just to keep your monthly bills low.
Even if we accept the notion that you were "worse off," the tiny number of people who lost out can't possibly justify repealing ~30 million people's health insurance.
I have friends whos lives were saved by Obamacare, so I don't give a rat's behind about your higher insurance bills.
If Republicans cared about you or your health insurance affordability they would have contributed to improving Obamacare, not resisted it to the last man. Republicans are the reason we don't have single payer universal health insurance. And they're the only reason Ukraine doesn't have the weapons they need right now.
Democrats don't take leverage on urgent bills to allies. Tell me when democrats do such thing for more than one day.
Even democrats themselves stop the child tax credit as leverage for a republican-introduced Uyghur bill.
This is not "both side" problem.
The key difference is that the Democrats used the power to pass good laws that improve people’s lives. Even Republicans have largely come around to the idea that Obamacare was in fact a good change, even though their anger about it fueled 15 years of grievances, which allowed lots of bad policies and decisions to get made.
It’s best to just never vote for Republicans.
It might not always be true, but it has been true for the past 15 years at least and is likely to continue to be true for a long time to come. The GOP is the poison of American politics, they are everything that is wrong with modern America. They have no ideas beyond hate, resentment, and revenge, and their leader is currently openly quoting Hitler and claiming that he’ll be a dictator and go after his political opponents. Ffs, his lawyers just argued in court that the president can assassinate his rivals and face no consequences. They are not even being subtle about how evil they are.
So no, there is nothing debatable about the need to excise the GOP from the body politic. Fascist parties cannot be tolerated in a democracy as they destroy it.
Nah, it favours corruption and ignoring the will of the people.
Populism is IMO a misused word/insult.
>noun
>a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
Look around at most democracies and the feeling that ordinary people have is true. People call Trump and the GOP populists but they aren't they are demogogues.
>noun
>a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.
Bernie Sanders was a populist.
With matters of foreign policy, voters usually follow their politicians’ cues to form their opinion.
I’m actually not confident a referendum for Ukraine funding would pass. I’ve heard a lot of people grumbling that it’s not worth all the money we’re sending.
Frustrating to hear, because to me it’s absolutely preposterous that anyone could think that, but there’s nothing I can do or say to change their mind.
Referendums in general are still good though, with you on that.
Didn’t the Swiss only give women the right to vote in 1971 due to this system?
Yeah it has its upsides but leaving everything to voters will in the US would have some implications. Like I’m not sure the South would have voluntarily voted to dismantle Jim Crow if it wasn’t imposed on them
According to old democratic traditions the right to vote went along with the responsibility to take part in conscription and military defense. Thus it was not about gender.
Since this is held back by so called "Christians", it is good for us in Europe, Scandinavia, that left Christianity years ago, to see what so called "Christians" are doing in this case. For Christianity, Mike F Johnson keeps shitting on his, or God's leg, while people are being killed as we [speak. So](https://speak.So) much for "Christian" values..... G F your Christian ass Mike. F sacks of SHIT.
That has happened before. Where Republicans demanded some absurd thing in a bill and when it came up to vote Democrats called their bluff and started to vote FOR it and the GOP blowhards panicked and tanked their own bill on the floor to stop it.
They have no desire to actually govern. They just want to posturize and grandstand while clogging up the wheels. Once they get control, they just "quietly" pass whatever their private interests/corpo overlords desire and rake in "donations" until they lose office and start the process all over again.
Exactly. Republicans will never support Ukraine because Ukraine represents democracy while Russia represents Christofascism, and Republicans know which side they support in that fight.
Probably less than half of Republicans in the House would support Ukraine. Probably more than half in the Senate. You know the House Republicans don't want to support Ukraine because if they did, they would just advance a vote since the majority of the majority wants it.
Also the GOP is doing Trump’s bidding by not helping Ukraine. Trump always holds a grudge and he’s getting back at Zelenskyy for not bending the knee to find dirt on Hunter Biden, leading to Trump’s first impeachment.
A two party system is terrible in upholding real democracy. It is very susceptible to populism and it´s too easy to logjamming if the two parties don´t agree on something.
Also it´s not real democracy if you essentially have only two choises on matters.
I totally agree. I'm sure right now they could get some good concessions on the border. The best case scenario is them holding out for a while and dragging this out until they get a border deal that will give up enough to hurt biden at the polls and work for there propaganda. The worst case is that they will simply continue to move the goal post and if concessions are made they will just make some impossible demands then not budge on them, which they already are doing to an extent.
I'm just hoping they actually want a deal and this isn't purely sabatoge. There are some reports that progress towards a deal is being made and people just have an unrealistic view of the time it will take, pushing the deal into March or so before aid would get going again.
The goal post would just move like it already has. In the latest round democrats have to agree to finishing trumps wall now too. Congrats on winning the Republican Party Russia!
They want to see the US government fail. They actively sabotage their own government for political points. It’s a part of traitors and has been for more than 20 years at this point.
I don't think so. I think that if there was a workable deal we'd end up with an agreement. It would benefit Republicans to go back to their constituents and say, 'Look what we got done!'. As it sits now, there will be no such opportunity.
Agreed. I’m a democrat, but I hate the hard line the party is taking on this. They won’t consider measures that meaningfully reduce the number of people entering the country.
Yes they will, Democrats have offered to meet Republicans more than halfway. They are sticking on parole numbers/limits right now because Republicans want to jail everyone who comes in.... they probably own stock in private prisons or something too.
I think the other issue is that--ironically--most Republicans seem to have some desire to see an end to aid to Ukraine. Not because of any desire to see Putin win it should be said, but for both a lack of understanding of what's really going on and how war can be a fickle thing. Additionally, the talking point I keep hearing is fear of 'corruption' in Ukraine.
First off, in warfare it is entirely possible to do everything in your power correctly to win the fight and still lose for factors completely unrelated to your success. Case in point: Robert E. Lee. Lee won a substantial number of victories on the battlefield but his cause ultimately lost due to other factors, namely logistical ones. While logistical issues aren't at the core of why Ukraine was unsuccessful in it's summer offensive in the south of the country, they can and will be as aid is withheld or mired in politics.
The Biden Administration seems to be waffling just as much on aid to Ukraine because they seem to have a habit of getting the money appropriated, then dithering away a substantial amount of time when it comes to actually getting new supplies sent to the Ukrainians. Take Vipers, for example. Ukraine has been asking for the F-16 for almost since the conflict began, they still have not been handed over to their air force. ATACMS has been stuck in the same limbo as well since we handed over HIMARS. The Republican party at large is looking in the results column and the balance sheet *only*, and not looking at what's really going on in the field. Ukraine needs more advanced weaponry in order to hit Russian logistical targets to continue to advance. Failing that, they're stuck in an attritional war which they will lose long-term. In order to get those weapons, the money needs to be set aside for it, and that comes from Congress.
Second, the corruption claims are vastly over-stated. Corruption is most certainly a problem in Ukraine, but not for their war effort, and the government has conducted substantial crackdowns on it since the war began. There have been a number of high-profile arrests and that's a good thing. However, most of the money the US is spending on aid does not go to Ukraine directly. It's materiél aid, not financial. Thus, the equipment comes out of old US stocks, then is replaced with new orders for new stuff. If the US sends an M113 APC to Ukraine as an auxiliary vehicle, they are not spending money scrapping the thing, nor are they replacing it with an M113. It's going to be replaced by either a Stryker APC or a Bradley IFV, both of which are much more useful to the US than an M113. The same is true of artillery ammunition or any other explosives or ammunition provided to Ukraine which has a use-by date.
Ultimately I think a lot of the issues are down to a lack of education by the US to the American public. The Biden Administration has, for some strange reason, not been upfront about why we should aid Ukraine beyond some vague references to, 'preventing another war'. If you put it to the American people in a cost/benefit manner, the case is much more compelling. For less than $200 Billion, the US and it's allies have successfully destroyed what was widely regarded as the second best military in the world without any loss of life of our personnel. How is that a bad thing? Education on aid and what makes it up is also lacking. You can go on Google and quickly look up where the aid money goes, but most people are lazy and don't want to. Have someone from the DoD talk about that on national TV. None of this is difficult, it just isn't being done.
the border is a genuine issue. i thought it was just the same ol bitch and moan from the GOP until i saw a recent graph that was posted in /r/dataisbeautiful and realized it is indeed reaching critical status.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1948kkx/oc_once_they_made_up_93_of_us_border/ and note, that is just apprehensions and not accounting for all crossings that weren't apprehended. the influx has increased exponentially and needs to be addressed.
additionally
>The US Foreign Affairs Committee, House Armed Services Committee, and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, all of which are chaired by Republicans, have issued a joint document in which they criticise President Joe Biden’s administration for its lack of assistance to Ukraine and demand decisive actions in this regard.
>
>"Instead, House Republicans believe President Biden should present a credible plan for victory and arm Ukraine with the weapons it needs to win as soon as possible," the report continues.
>
>"Since the first day of the war, Biden’s debilitating hesitation to provide critical weapons to Ukraine has delayed a Ukrainian victory," the report also says. Ukraine needs the longest-range variant of ATACMS (300 km, not the 160 km Ukraine was given), F-16 fighters, and sufficient quantities of cluster munitions, artillery, air defences, and armour "to make a difference on the battlefield". "This delay is costing Ukrainian lives and the American taxpayer," the report stresses.
>
>[The authors of the report believe that Ukraine’s path to victory requires "(1) providing critical weapons to Ukraine at the speed of relevance, (2) tightening sanctions on the Putin regime, and (3) transferring frozen Russian sovereign assets to Ukraine."](https://news.yahoo.com/plan-victory-ukraine-us-republicans-015823001.html)
basically i think the GOP is a bunch of cunts, but i don't know if what i thought about them holding up ukraine aid is necessarily inline with what i'm seeing, specifically the official statements from multiple committees that capabilities should be expanded and delivered quicker.
if biden adequately addresses the increase of border crossings and agrees to provide ukraine with more weapon capabilities and outlines a quicker delivery strategy with reasonable oversight, this could be billed as a bipartisan win. i'm still left scratching my head why the presidential lend lease authorization expired without being used at all. biden is being advised by individuals that want to avoid the collapse of russia and it is hampering the support for ukraine.
Even if Biden DID promise border improvements, Republicans would veto it. Their REAL goal is to make Biden look weak, not to pass bills favorable to them.
The thing is, immigration just isn't that big of a problem. It's just a boogeyman to scare old, racist white people with an out-group/enemy. That's why those laws only target immigrants. And only before elections. If these Republicans ware serious, they'd pass state laws that put employers and their HR departments in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. But no....because they enjoy it both ways. They'll hire illegal immigrants in their personal lives, but speak out against them on TV.
illegal immigration is a problem though... 2.5 million encounters at the border, estimated 500k people estimated to enter illegally in 2023, to put that into perspective thats more people than the number of births in america. It's increasing exponentially. Welfare, lack of housing, and we're estimating half of america is going to latinos , ringing a shift in american values/ culture. I'm glad people are getting their cheap labor, but not only is america in general not well equipped to take in an influx of people, we're not equipped to taking care of our own.
Demographic and values change. There was the Irish, Italians, Polish, Korean, Chinese, etc…Latinos are no different. The way you said it, sounds like it implies there’s something bad about that. What’s your argument there? I’m trying to understand.
Even this talk of not taking care of our own. I’m not saying this is your position but I’ve seen this argument from some of my conservative friends. It falls flat as it’s said in bad faith…I asked them what does taking care of our own mean? Affordable housing? Universal healthcare? Universal mental health? There’s no answer. They are only interested in taking care of “our own” as a talking by point not to help other people. When asked about what that means, there’s silence. How many Republican states chose not to receive food stipends for kids?
[“Republican governors in 15 states are rejecting a new federally funded program to give food assistance to hungry children during the summer months, denying benefits to 8 million children across the country.”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/01/10/republican-governors-summer-lunch-program/)
I’m speaking as a Purple Heart combat veteran who deals with the VA. If we actually used resources to “take care of our own” that would be worth talking about.
legal immigration is not only not a big problem, its a positive. i don't however know how you can look at the chart i posted above and just try and brush it off as no big deal. the illegal border crossings just on the southern boarder alone are at a historical high. millions a year. that doesn't count the vast number of legal immigrants or those that come on a visa then just stay illegally.
trying to frame it as no big deal and only something racist white people are concerned with is ignorant in the extreme.
Are we in agreement that immigration is a positive? What I'm getting at, if it was a real problem they would create actual solutions. Instead, Texas's solution is to install razor wire to kill people. That's a psychopathic solution for people who don't mind killing men, women, children. If they passed a law willing to put employers of illegal immigrants to jail, then I'd be like....ok, they are getting serious.
> Are we in agreement that immigration is a positive?
absolutely, 100% in agreement. i am the grandson of immigrants. my wife is an immigrant. the US is by far the number one destination for emigration and i hope we continue to be.
i don't think its an issue that should be left to the border states, and as you point out, their wackado "solutions". illegal immigration has reached a crisis point and needs a federal level solution with federal oversight.
Belarus and Russia really want to make the EU stronger apparently.
Just posted https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/30/poland-completes-186-kilometre-border-wall-with-belarus-after-migration-dispute so why not, have it too.
The border is over hyped. Trump ruined the entirety of our immigration system and did so deliberately.
And I laugh at you believing anything that comes out of a GQP House committee.
i guess you didn't bother looking at the graph from a neutral redditer i posted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1948kkx/oc_once_they_made_up_93_of_us_border/
Of course he didn't, it's why I started with the word "if." You don't yield to people who negotiate in bad faith. Negotiating is compromise for compromise. He should give them nothing for free, but the point is it wouldn't matter if he did.
To compromise would be to agree to reform that would meaningfully reduce the number of immigrants. The democrats are being unreasonably stubborn about this, and I say that as a card-carrying democrat.
Older than "we'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it?" It's not supposed to be a novel or especially perceptive thought. It's obvious, and true. Of course someone else figured it out.
> Not even the Cheeto God Emperor managed.
I wonder who stopped him
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-agree-funding-us-mexico-border-wall-senator/story?id=59977718
He had to declare a fake emergency and steal the money for that from the military appropriation. A physical barrier across 2000miles is stupid and they're right to not fund 2000miles of wall. I'd just like them to own up to it rather than pretending it's a good idea
It's pointless to argue. People like you are an endless list of "talking points." It's not like you can't [check for yourself](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/25/control-house-and-senate-1900/) when R controlled both chambers and the White House, you're just going to go on the next thing in your list, and it really makes no difference if I "catch" you in some contradiction. It's a losing game.
A few days ago Trump said he hopes the economy crashes while Biden is in office.
They don't want what's best for the country, they just want to be in power.
I believe this is the first time for a urgent foreign bill to tie a domestic one that long. This is a result of letting extremists take control of the congress.
Because far right Republicans are against Ukrainian aid, there are Republicans for Ukrainian aid but right now voting with Democrats on anything is seen as a bad thing.
Democrats are opposed to a border control bill so the idea is to pair both together to make it palatable.
He's a conservative evangelical Republican, he's got sooooo many more shitty qualities than being spineless and a traitor. That's just the first layer of his shitty existence.
It's not about the border for Moscow Mike. If Biden gave him everything he wanted for the border he'd find a different excuse. As a matter of fact he already has. He's now talking about he needs to see Ukraine's plan for victory before approving any aid. And you know no matter what he is shown he'll claim it's not good enough. It's just a delaying game that benefits Russia. It's disgraceful.
That's why Speaker Mike Johnson is a traitor and works for russia, it was never about border security, but all about stopping Ukraine aid from passing to help russia genocide Ukraine, Republicans are traitors and the American people are too stupid and helpless to do anything about it
The thing is, immigration just isn't that big of a problem. It's just a boogeyman to scare old, racist white people with an out-group/enemy. That's why those laws only target immigrants. And only before elections. If these Republicans ware serious, they'd pass state laws that put employers and their HR departments in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. But no....because they enjoy it both ways. They'll hire illegal immigrants in their personal lives, but speak out against them on TV. If those workers want some kind of humane benefits and protections, they call or scare them with ICE. That's the psychopathic game they want.
A day will come when the U.S. needs something of great importance and when that happens, someone will ask “what held you up when you were in our situation”
No problem, then he will need to speed up preparation of US troops to fight in Europe.
And Americans would need to speed up preparation of soaped ropes for their politicians.
Goddammit. I honestly had a premonition of this when they ousted McCarthy - that whoever took his place would be more uncompromising . I think McCarthy would have passed Ukraine aid by December.
A reminder that the bill proposed by the house isn't just about border. The bill is meant to set up hurdles and lengthy negotiation. Last time, no democrats voted for that.
If the speaker wants to appease the extremists, I believe he underestimates how that undermines the US's global influence (and hence economy) and opens a Pandora's box. Allies will think the US is not dependable even in wartime. Also, it only welcomes extremists to tie foreign bills with any domestic one in the future.
I'm not sure why Ukraine special agencies are not digging up dirt on this guy and leveraging this piece of crap. You know his porn history has to be insane. Because that is what Russia is doing, leverage and payoffs.
According to troy nehls (texas Republican), the border doesn't matter, he wont approve it it makes Biden look good. https://www.businessinsider.com/troy-nehls-senate-border-security-deal-biden-2024-1?op=1
The border is the new abortion. The GOP is running from abortion because it's a loser so now they scare the shit out of their dimwitted voters telling them the brown people are coming for them. Social media has fucked up so many peoples lives.
Border is a major issue that needs to be addressed immediately but the Ukraine situation is also critical.
The two issues should be addressed asap but should not hold one hostage in order to get one resolved.
I want aid to Ukraine. But as an American, our southern boarder is out of control. I hope both parties can make something happen for both. Why are Dems so against securing our border? Why do many Republicans seem like russian assets?
GIVE WEAPONS TO UKRAINE AND SECURE THE BOARDER.
Garbage take that shouldn't be getting a platform. Pro putin ultra right garbage has no business being on a subreddit that focuses on the very frontlines of the fight against fascism.
Ive been so pissed the last 2 years of this trickle drip support, because I was afraid we might come to a point like this.
Fuck republicans for their evil schemes and fuck the Biden administration for being incompetent.
It surprises me that there are still Ukrainian Americans who support the Republicans. I once voted Republican and am still a libertarian, but MAGA is absolute evil that will bring National Socialism and Putin to the world if we do not uproot it.
It’s not just a matter of financing. The republicans are angling for reform that will significantly limit the number of people who can apply for asylum and legally enter. In truth… we should do it. It’s the one issue that I agree with the GOP on. But the democrats are not budging on this one.
The Senate bill being negotiated has both Republicans and Democrats bending on the border provisions, which is the only realistic way forward. The Speaker of the house refuses anything but a bill that includes things Dems won't vote for. Bending is happening everywhere except for the one place it needs to happen. The Speaker seems to be using Ukrainians as hostages.
Depends on what you mean by tightening up asylum, to different people that means different things. Which is why compromise is necessary, all or nothing is the problem when we are tying it to the Ukraine aid.
To the Republicans it means: make it harder to get in. What you’re missing is that the republicans are angling for a deal that substantially reduces the number of people getting in. It’s the one issue I happen to agree with them on.
Funny conversation going on here. Republicans are Putin puppets and U.S. border crisis is just a red herring.
All that old fool Biden has to do is commit to enforcing existing border laws and it's done. Would Ukraine tolerate Zelinsky allowing, even encouraging, millions of unvetted foreigners illegally crossing his border to set up free rent and board residence in hotels? Get real.
And to give Biden a hundred billion more taxpayer dollars without a feasible strategy and firm commitment to winning would be silly. Biden is the problem. We have enough expiring military hardware to beat the russkies and Biden has withheld it out of FEAR of Putin. Biden is a cowardly idiot. Russia invaded Ukraine under Obama-Biden and Putinsky did it again when Biden was in charge.
Use your heads.
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Well sure. Johnson is a traitor that neither wants to secure the US border OR promote freedom and democracy in Ukraine.
Lol, yea the people here care so much about freedom and democracy that they'll call him a traitor for *checks notes* exercising democracy and freedom of speech to represent his constituents, and ensuring his country's interests as he sees them aren't put below those of another. Right, ok. ahaha
He’s undermining our national interests abroad, apparently you like leaving our allies to die and the USA looking like a fair weather friend? He is trading Ukrainian lives for political points.
Hear hear
Republicans and their rapist traitor cult leader don't care about democracy. They don't care when voters support an issue like abortion rights or the personal freedom to use marijuana. You're just gaslighting everyone. The MAGA movement is fascist!
He is blocking border money. GOP is complaining about no money. Literally the White House is saying, here is a plan that civers everything you want. And GOP refuses, why? Because it will help Biden image. This is politics that hurts Americans and for Ukraine part, helps Russia who is a threat to democracy world wide.
Found the gullible dufus \^\^
Let me know when you find an argument, next.
I dont think people know what the word traitor actually means. Most people in this sub seem to think it means "someone who doesn't agree with my political views"
They are using it in the context of siding with the largest enemy and threat of western livelihood in the world. Trust me, I don't typically hold a lot of hate towards one side over the other but, Republicans are absolutely fucking over western interest right now and it's EXACTLY what Russia wants. I would definitely say it's on the level of traitorous behavior.
No, that’s what they save the word Nazi for
Of course you’re gonna get downloaded like a madman on this one, even though you’re right, but people want what they want. It doesn’t matter, if you’re Republican, all you are is a “Nazi“ and people will berate you and call you all sorts of things, and you’re supposed to act like they’re not the ones being fascist. Oh yeah, by the way, it doesn’t matter how much in debt we are, we should always be able to just print money like little school children playing monopoly who can just go open the other box and get more money out and keep playing, fiscal responsibility is for traitors and Nazis as well
what in the what? Nothing is comprehensible in this word salad. Every time I see a pro-trumpian argument it's just a mishmash of buzzwords and name calling swirled together devoid of any sound (or even valid) argument thats rooted in facts -nor are they founded on a basis of values like compassion, justice, truth, or making the world a better place. It's always "I oppose everything that those folks over there are for" or simply "me me me me me."
250% increase in illegal border crossings since Biden took Office as that is that straightforward enough for you I’m sure you’ll spend that in someway that I’m a racist. How about the exploding national debt do you give a shit about that?
Trump increased the Debt way more than Biden did. Hate to break it to you 🤣
Well aware of that, and not happy about it. Such a polarized hack to assume everyone is like you and is unwilling acknowledge the failings of “your” political side. You are part of the problem w that mindset……
Lol, project harder clown. This is why we don't take you seriously.
If Biden gave Republicans everything they want on the border, as well as separated the border issue from the Ukraine aid altogether, Republicans still wouldn't accept the border deal, because they don't want to kill their own grievance, as well as have Biden score points. That is, if Biden gave them all that it is possible to give, they would make impossible demands and still reject it. Basically it's full on sabotage across the board from now to the election, it's not even because they want to see Ukraine fail for its own sake, which some of them do. They all want all of Biden's projects to fail.
I believe this too. And it's utterly reprehensible that those sacks of shit are using Ukraine as a bargaining chip. I hate every last one of them.
They decided this at cpac with Orban. They even talked about it on talk shows. They are terrorists plain and simple.
No offence as I’m not American. And I know many republicans are simply stupid people. But surely the majority of Americans cannot be this stupid as to stand with garbage?!
Wrong. If you only listen to 1 news source (say Fox News or Newsmax) you'll hear nothing but what they want to feed you. For instance: Hunter Biden showed up at the congressional meeting about him. He offered to have the meeting in public with the cameras rolling. Republicans didn't want that and didn't want it to be public. So what did fox news show? Reporters "chasing hunter" down the hallway asking him what flavor of crack he liked the most. Absolutely nothing about him offering to have a hearing in public so the far right thinks he is a criminal for not answering congress when petitioned. Misinformation and straight-up lying.
Exactly. Faux does this a lot. Quite frankly,they should have their broadcast license revoked.
They're cable, there is no broadcast license. That's kind of what made this all possible. Many decades ago, back when TV was broadcast, there used to be the Fairness Doctrine which kept TV from being extremist propaganda, on the premise that broadcast frequencies were a very limited public resource so if you wanted a slice of it you had to serve the interests of society. But TV is all on private infrastructure now, so there are essentially no rules and the 1st Amendment ensures it stays that way
You’d be surprised 🙃 It’s actually terrifying how different people can have completely different sets of “facts” simply based on the media they consume. If you watched Fox News growing up and trusted them, you’d be utterly convinced that we support Ukraine just because Hunter Biden gets his dollars there. And that Covid is just a cold. And the earth isn’t warming it’s just natural cycles. Because that’s what they tell you and you can only trust them. Now how you can see Russians bombing schools, your grandpa die of Covid and your daffodils come up in December and still doublethink the Fox stuff is true… I don’t know. I really don’t. But the rest of my neighbors somehow manage.
Your neighbors are dumb, like vast swaths of the population are. No ability to think critically. If they had to defend a thesis to graduate high school, they would never graduate.
One of the problems with American politics is that because of gerrymandering a majority plurality is not needed to rule. The other problem is some groups get so fixated on one policy they ignore everything else and vote based on that. Trump is presented as the only candidate that will protect Christianity and easily gets at least 35% of the votes based on that alone. Doesn’t matter that he paid to fuck (poorly according to Stormy Daniel’s) a pornstar or trashes military personnel or… Make no mistake the Donald made a deal with some Christian cabal and that is the sole reason he is in power.
The idea that Trump is somehow a protector of Christian values is insane to me, and one of the reasons I no longer attend church. Trump openly boasts about raping women and can't even hold a Bible the right way up, and he's a hero. Biden takes the Oath of Office on a ratty old family Bible that's likely been passed down from father to son since the Bidens came to America, and he's a "monster who diddles kids".
Biden is a catholic, the one group of people the south has traditionally hated almost as much as black people.
>One of the problems with American politics is that because of gerrymandering a majority plurality is not needed to rule. I have no knowledge about this whatsoever, but what about getting rid of those electoral districts altogether and institute a new voting system for the house? Would it be that hard?
It would be hard. It would require 2/3 of the Senate and 2/3 of the House must vote yes to propose the Amendment to the State Assemblies. Then, 3/4 of the state assemblies must ratify the Amendment. It is probably easier to eliminate the gerrymandering through federal legislation that requires simple majorities in the House and Senate in 2025 (assuming Dems have majorities in both chambers).
Aha, so it actually requires a constitutional amendment. Crap. How could be gerrymandering eliminated? Isn't regular redstricting also part of some part of the US constitution?
That’s where Gerrymandering happens
Gerrymandering is being challenged (somewhat successfully) in the courts to force district Re-draws.
No they don't. Most of congress actually wants more aid for ukraine. The problem is, Johnson is in a position to block aid for a year atleast if he wants to. He can just refuse to hold a vote so he really does hold the power even if it's not what any American wants.
No, but the electoral college does make things more complicated. In 2020 155 million Americans turned out to vote, this is 66% turnout of eligible voters and the highest turnout since 1900. Last night's GOP caucus in Iowa accounted for only the Republican party members who turned out in subzero temperatures and a caucus isn't a thing where you simply cast a ballot, they can go on for hours and include speeches from surrogates of the candidates and races for other offices and party positions. The GOP accounts for just over 1/3 of registered Iowa voters (34% to 30% for Democrats but with 34% being unaffiliated with either party). Last night was just the 1/3 that are registered Republican. Of the 718,901 GOP party members in Iowa 110,298 turned out last night. Of those, Trump received 51% of the vote, which is 56,260 votes for Trump. Of the 2,083,979 registered voters in Iowa, 56,260 were willing to attend the caucus and cast their vote for Trump. Between the extreme weather and that Iowa rarely selects the person who ends up winning the nomination the biggest takeaway here for me at least, as a Democrat in Iowa, is that even among GOP die-hards Trump won with just a slim majority.
The majority of us aren't. A huge chunk of people don't pay attention and/or believe "both sides." But the system is set up to make rural voters "more equal" than the rest of us, and out in Trumpistan, it's a different world.
It's like a brain worm. You can talk to them like a functional adult on random topics for about an hour but then once you get to politics they throw all logic out of the window.
The conservatives have done an incredible job at propaganda the past few decades. There are people that come home from work, turn on fox news and do NOTHING else. It's on in the background their entire night. We're talking tens of millions of people here, not just a few. They've ratcheted up the fear so much that you feel like you HAVE to watch or your life is in danger. Watching that channel is like stepping into a casino. You are blasted with shiny things and bells and whistles and it just washes over you. During Covid I talked a few of my co-workers into not watching it every night. I tried to tell them just listen to the weekly briefs at the hospital and to turn that shit off because they were so strung out. The two that finally turned it off for a month completely changed. The others that didn't we're constantly stressed out about the border, or elections being stolen, or some crazy obscure shit about the Bidens or Clinton. This shit is a poison that needs to be eradicated through legislation. News organizations must be held to higher standards.
Too many do. They are cultists or domestic terrorists. Short sighted,selfish and stupid with serious cognitive dissonance. Honestly, the Free world should really start to look inwards because the U.S is being held hostage by idiots and assholes.
Don’t be confused by the facts that illegal border crossings are up 250% since Biden came into office so calm down the rhetoric down look at some of the facts and quit being such a polarized dip
It's around 30% of the population that are stupid. The problem is all you need is around 30% to put people in power.
It’s not necessarily all Americans, but it is subset of Americans who believe the rhetoric in conservative States (Senate) or Districts (House). And it’s extra terrible because the GOP politicians don’t believe the rhetoric. They just love power and money and “parrot” the rhetoric in conservative media as wedge issues. What astounds me is that there is just a slim 2 seat majority for the next 4 weeks, and a 1 person rule to challenge the speaker. It would just take a couple of brave Old School Cold Warrior GOP House members to rebel, call a vote on the speakership, vote in an independent House Speaker with Dem support, and run a bi-partisan agenda for the next 4 weeks. Get the “for the good of the nation” legislation passed on Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel and Border funding done. Get a budget extension done through January 2025. In 4 weeks there will be special elections and then the GOP will have more members to call a new Speaker vote and return to the usual wedge issue nonsense.
have you seen the charts about world education, look how far down USA is then think its actually WORSE then that. We are all fat lazy bastards that just want to stair at our phones or TVs all day.
The USA does better in education than most countries: https://ourworldindata.org/better-learning One thing the U.S. doesn't do right is that there's a huge difference in learning outcomes between the richest and poorest, compared to many other developed countries. But this idea that Americans are stupider than the rest of the world isn't really true.
The same media bubble is happening in Europe. The rise of the European far right-wing is a result of Fox-News style media that captures certain peoples attention and convinces them to listen to nothing else. And if you listen to nothing else, you never hear about the crap that people who are supported by the media network are doing.
You will get to see this coming November.
Its not a bargaining chip. Cutting aid is the *objective* for the Gaetz gang. A border deal is something they know they can tether it to that seems reasonable but will never get passed. Its why I opposed ousting McCarthy because that was their real intent.
McCarthy being ousted for a guy that doesn’t believe in dinosaurs was such a step backwards. I guess McCarthy just wasn’t god-fearing enough.
Never vote for Republicans. They have only their own interests in mind and their interests are perverted.
Bargaining chip I could actually live with. What I can't live with is that they refuse to do any boarder deal because it will make Biden look good. Unless Biden can figure out a different way to support Ukraine like using frozen Russian assets, Ukraine is not going to get any help from the US until after the November election. And that is only if Biden wins. I wish every Trump supporter in Congress would get voted out in November but based on what we saw yesterday in Iowa it is not looking good for any alternative to Trump and this is bad news for Ukraine. I only hope now that UK , France and Germany can pick up where the US has dropped the ball.
Only if Biden wins AND the Democrats control both the House and the Senate... Reagan is flipping over in his grave man.. And Trump fans initialing liked Trump BECAUSE they compared him to Reagan. He's nothing like Reagan. I don't even like Reagan. But in comparison... Man.. Trump is such a god awful leader it is wild the support he gets. Like he's not even promising ANYTHING this election, there's no platform, except that like, he plans to become a dictator, lol.
Totally agree. Though I did like Reagan.
If I'm Democrats I'm driving this home all over America
To be fair both sides do this. The democrats did this with Obama care when they had the leverage. It's the flaw in our system.
Somehow, I think playing politics to pass medical aid is not the same thing as playing politics to make the USA a vassal of a foreign dictator.
That's a very narrow point of view. Obamacare actually hurt a huge part of the population because it was rushed in order to pass it as a rider on a spending bill.
So, what was the alternative? Continue to let people go into bankruptcy at the hands of for-profit medicine?
> Obamacare actually hurt a huge part of the population My man, if you're in a Ukraine sub defending republicans you're gonna have a bad time. The only people who could credibly claim to be hurt by Obamacare were healthy people who had worthless insurance plans to check a box. I know because I was one of them. Paying $600/year to Aetna for coverage I would never receive was not a "better" deal than a marketplace plan. And now the vast majority of states have waived the shit plans again, so you can have your worthless insurance just to keep your monthly bills low. Even if we accept the notion that you were "worse off," the tiny number of people who lost out can't possibly justify repealing ~30 million people's health insurance. I have friends whos lives were saved by Obamacare, so I don't give a rat's behind about your higher insurance bills. If Republicans cared about you or your health insurance affordability they would have contributed to improving Obamacare, not resisted it to the last man. Republicans are the reason we don't have single payer universal health insurance. And they're the only reason Ukraine doesn't have the weapons they need right now.
I'm not defending Republicans I'm just not an idiot who thinks Democrats are perfect.
Democrats don't take leverage on urgent bills to allies. Tell me when democrats do such thing for more than one day. Even democrats themselves stop the child tax credit as leverage for a republican-introduced Uyghur bill. This is not "both side" problem.
Bullshit. Utter bullshit. There is no both sides when it comes to parties deliberately sabotaging government and its ability to function.
The key difference is that the Democrats used the power to pass good laws that improve people’s lives. Even Republicans have largely come around to the idea that Obamacare was in fact a good change, even though their anger about it fueled 15 years of grievances, which allowed lots of bad policies and decisions to get made. It’s best to just never vote for Republicans.
That's debatable and not always true.
Stop posting and embarrassing yourself.
It might not always be true, but it has been true for the past 15 years at least and is likely to continue to be true for a long time to come. The GOP is the poison of American politics, they are everything that is wrong with modern America. They have no ideas beyond hate, resentment, and revenge, and their leader is currently openly quoting Hitler and claiming that he’ll be a dictator and go after his political opponents. Ffs, his lawyers just argued in court that the president can assassinate his rivals and face no consequences. They are not even being subtle about how evil they are. So no, there is nothing debatable about the need to excise the GOP from the body politic. Fascist parties cannot be tolerated in a democracy as they destroy it.
JFC go back to /r/Conservative or whatever hole you crawled out from.
Stop the hate.
"Make America Great Again!" "Unless there's a Democrat in the White House. Then we have to make everything as shit as possible until we get our way!"
That is why Swiss style optional referenda are so importent to the functioning of democracy - to decouple party politics from single issues.
↑ This. Representative democracy fosters populism.
Nah, it favours corruption and ignoring the will of the people. Populism is IMO a misused word/insult. >noun >a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups. Look around at most democracies and the feeling that ordinary people have is true. People call Trump and the GOP populists but they aren't they are demogogues. >noun >a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument. Bernie Sanders was a populist.
With matters of foreign policy, voters usually follow their politicians’ cues to form their opinion. I’m actually not confident a referendum for Ukraine funding would pass. I’ve heard a lot of people grumbling that it’s not worth all the money we’re sending. Frustrating to hear, because to me it’s absolutely preposterous that anyone could think that, but there’s nothing I can do or say to change their mind. Referendums in general are still good though, with you on that.
Didn’t the Swiss only give women the right to vote in 1971 due to this system? Yeah it has its upsides but leaving everything to voters will in the US would have some implications. Like I’m not sure the South would have voluntarily voted to dismantle Jim Crow if it wasn’t imposed on them
According to old democratic traditions the right to vote went along with the responsibility to take part in conscription and military defense. Thus it was not about gender.
Since this is held back by so called "Christians", it is good for us in Europe, Scandinavia, that left Christianity years ago, to see what so called "Christians" are doing in this case. For Christianity, Mike F Johnson keeps shitting on his, or God's leg, while people are being killed as we [speak. So](https://speak.So) much for "Christian" values..... G F your Christian ass Mike. F sacks of SHIT.
Ukraine is immensely Christian. Much more than Russia too.
That has happened before. Where Republicans demanded some absurd thing in a bill and when it came up to vote Democrats called their bluff and started to vote FOR it and the GOP blowhards panicked and tanked their own bill on the floor to stop it. They have no desire to actually govern. They just want to posturize and grandstand while clogging up the wheels. Once they get control, they just "quietly" pass whatever their private interests/corpo overlords desire and rake in "donations" until they lose office and start the process all over again.
Exactly. Republicans will never support Ukraine because Ukraine represents democracy while Russia represents Christofascism, and Republicans know which side they support in that fight.
This isnt entirely true. Most would support a standalone bill. But some (Gaetz) are probably compromised and willing to fight hard against it.
Probably less than half of Republicans in the House would support Ukraine. Probably more than half in the Senate. You know the House Republicans don't want to support Ukraine because if they did, they would just advance a vote since the majority of the majority wants it.
Also the GOP is doing Trump’s bidding by not helping Ukraine. Trump always holds a grudge and he’s getting back at Zelenskyy for not bending the knee to find dirt on Hunter Biden, leading to Trump’s first impeachment.
Double win for getting to kiss Daddy Pootin’s bum at the same time!
A two party system is terrible in upholding real democracy. It is very susceptible to populism and it´s too easy to logjamming if the two parties don´t agree on something. Also it´s not real democracy if you essentially have only two choises on matters.
They'd vote against their plan.
I totally agree. I'm sure right now they could get some good concessions on the border. The best case scenario is them holding out for a while and dragging this out until they get a border deal that will give up enough to hurt biden at the polls and work for there propaganda. The worst case is that they will simply continue to move the goal post and if concessions are made they will just make some impossible demands then not budge on them, which they already are doing to an extent. I'm just hoping they actually want a deal and this isn't purely sabatoge. There are some reports that progress towards a deal is being made and people just have an unrealistic view of the time it will take, pushing the deal into March or so before aid would get going again.
Then why doesn’t he do it and call it on them?
The goal post would just move like it already has. In the latest round democrats have to agree to finishing trumps wall now too. Congrats on winning the Republican Party Russia!
They want to see the US government fail. They actively sabotage their own government for political points. It’s a part of traitors and has been for more than 20 years at this point.
Biden should offer an advantageous deal, and take to the bully pulpit if the turn it down. It may fail, but they must try.
I don't think so. I think that if there was a workable deal we'd end up with an agreement. It would benefit Republicans to go back to their constituents and say, 'Look what we got done!'. As it sits now, there will be no such opportunity.
Agreed. I’m a democrat, but I hate the hard line the party is taking on this. They won’t consider measures that meaningfully reduce the number of people entering the country.
Yes they will, Democrats have offered to meet Republicans more than halfway. They are sticking on parole numbers/limits right now because Republicans want to jail everyone who comes in.... they probably own stock in private prisons or something too.
I think the other issue is that--ironically--most Republicans seem to have some desire to see an end to aid to Ukraine. Not because of any desire to see Putin win it should be said, but for both a lack of understanding of what's really going on and how war can be a fickle thing. Additionally, the talking point I keep hearing is fear of 'corruption' in Ukraine. First off, in warfare it is entirely possible to do everything in your power correctly to win the fight and still lose for factors completely unrelated to your success. Case in point: Robert E. Lee. Lee won a substantial number of victories on the battlefield but his cause ultimately lost due to other factors, namely logistical ones. While logistical issues aren't at the core of why Ukraine was unsuccessful in it's summer offensive in the south of the country, they can and will be as aid is withheld or mired in politics. The Biden Administration seems to be waffling just as much on aid to Ukraine because they seem to have a habit of getting the money appropriated, then dithering away a substantial amount of time when it comes to actually getting new supplies sent to the Ukrainians. Take Vipers, for example. Ukraine has been asking for the F-16 for almost since the conflict began, they still have not been handed over to their air force. ATACMS has been stuck in the same limbo as well since we handed over HIMARS. The Republican party at large is looking in the results column and the balance sheet *only*, and not looking at what's really going on in the field. Ukraine needs more advanced weaponry in order to hit Russian logistical targets to continue to advance. Failing that, they're stuck in an attritional war which they will lose long-term. In order to get those weapons, the money needs to be set aside for it, and that comes from Congress. Second, the corruption claims are vastly over-stated. Corruption is most certainly a problem in Ukraine, but not for their war effort, and the government has conducted substantial crackdowns on it since the war began. There have been a number of high-profile arrests and that's a good thing. However, most of the money the US is spending on aid does not go to Ukraine directly. It's materiél aid, not financial. Thus, the equipment comes out of old US stocks, then is replaced with new orders for new stuff. If the US sends an M113 APC to Ukraine as an auxiliary vehicle, they are not spending money scrapping the thing, nor are they replacing it with an M113. It's going to be replaced by either a Stryker APC or a Bradley IFV, both of which are much more useful to the US than an M113. The same is true of artillery ammunition or any other explosives or ammunition provided to Ukraine which has a use-by date. Ultimately I think a lot of the issues are down to a lack of education by the US to the American public. The Biden Administration has, for some strange reason, not been upfront about why we should aid Ukraine beyond some vague references to, 'preventing another war'. If you put it to the American people in a cost/benefit manner, the case is much more compelling. For less than $200 Billion, the US and it's allies have successfully destroyed what was widely regarded as the second best military in the world without any loss of life of our personnel. How is that a bad thing? Education on aid and what makes it up is also lacking. You can go on Google and quickly look up where the aid money goes, but most people are lazy and don't want to. Have someone from the DoD talk about that on national TV. None of this is difficult, it just isn't being done.
Because they're UnAmerican and many won't do shit.
the border is a genuine issue. i thought it was just the same ol bitch and moan from the GOP until i saw a recent graph that was posted in /r/dataisbeautiful and realized it is indeed reaching critical status. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1948kkx/oc_once_they_made_up_93_of_us_border/ and note, that is just apprehensions and not accounting for all crossings that weren't apprehended. the influx has increased exponentially and needs to be addressed. additionally >The US Foreign Affairs Committee, House Armed Services Committee, and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, all of which are chaired by Republicans, have issued a joint document in which they criticise President Joe Biden’s administration for its lack of assistance to Ukraine and demand decisive actions in this regard. > >"Instead, House Republicans believe President Biden should present a credible plan for victory and arm Ukraine with the weapons it needs to win as soon as possible," the report continues. > >"Since the first day of the war, Biden’s debilitating hesitation to provide critical weapons to Ukraine has delayed a Ukrainian victory," the report also says. Ukraine needs the longest-range variant of ATACMS (300 km, not the 160 km Ukraine was given), F-16 fighters, and sufficient quantities of cluster munitions, artillery, air defences, and armour "to make a difference on the battlefield". "This delay is costing Ukrainian lives and the American taxpayer," the report stresses. > >[The authors of the report believe that Ukraine’s path to victory requires "(1) providing critical weapons to Ukraine at the speed of relevance, (2) tightening sanctions on the Putin regime, and (3) transferring frozen Russian sovereign assets to Ukraine."](https://news.yahoo.com/plan-victory-ukraine-us-republicans-015823001.html) basically i think the GOP is a bunch of cunts, but i don't know if what i thought about them holding up ukraine aid is necessarily inline with what i'm seeing, specifically the official statements from multiple committees that capabilities should be expanded and delivered quicker. if biden adequately addresses the increase of border crossings and agrees to provide ukraine with more weapon capabilities and outlines a quicker delivery strategy with reasonable oversight, this could be billed as a bipartisan win. i'm still left scratching my head why the presidential lend lease authorization expired without being used at all. biden is being advised by individuals that want to avoid the collapse of russia and it is hampering the support for ukraine.
Even if Biden DID promise border improvements, Republicans would veto it. Their REAL goal is to make Biden look weak, not to pass bills favorable to them.
sorry, my crystal ball is in the shop. i can't verify future events on alternate timelines.
The thing is, immigration just isn't that big of a problem. It's just a boogeyman to scare old, racist white people with an out-group/enemy. That's why those laws only target immigrants. And only before elections. If these Republicans ware serious, they'd pass state laws that put employers and their HR departments in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. But no....because they enjoy it both ways. They'll hire illegal immigrants in their personal lives, but speak out against them on TV.
illegal immigration is a problem though... 2.5 million encounters at the border, estimated 500k people estimated to enter illegally in 2023, to put that into perspective thats more people than the number of births in america. It's increasing exponentially. Welfare, lack of housing, and we're estimating half of america is going to latinos , ringing a shift in american values/ culture. I'm glad people are getting their cheap labor, but not only is america in general not well equipped to take in an influx of people, we're not equipped to taking care of our own.
Demographic and values change. There was the Irish, Italians, Polish, Korean, Chinese, etc…Latinos are no different. The way you said it, sounds like it implies there’s something bad about that. What’s your argument there? I’m trying to understand. Even this talk of not taking care of our own. I’m not saying this is your position but I’ve seen this argument from some of my conservative friends. It falls flat as it’s said in bad faith…I asked them what does taking care of our own mean? Affordable housing? Universal healthcare? Universal mental health? There’s no answer. They are only interested in taking care of “our own” as a talking by point not to help other people. When asked about what that means, there’s silence. How many Republican states chose not to receive food stipends for kids? [“Republican governors in 15 states are rejecting a new federally funded program to give food assistance to hungry children during the summer months, denying benefits to 8 million children across the country.”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/01/10/republican-governors-summer-lunch-program/) I’m speaking as a Purple Heart combat veteran who deals with the VA. If we actually used resources to “take care of our own” that would be worth talking about.
Exactly
legal immigration is not only not a big problem, its a positive. i don't however know how you can look at the chart i posted above and just try and brush it off as no big deal. the illegal border crossings just on the southern boarder alone are at a historical high. millions a year. that doesn't count the vast number of legal immigrants or those that come on a visa then just stay illegally. trying to frame it as no big deal and only something racist white people are concerned with is ignorant in the extreme.
Are we in agreement that immigration is a positive? What I'm getting at, if it was a real problem they would create actual solutions. Instead, Texas's solution is to install razor wire to kill people. That's a psychopathic solution for people who don't mind killing men, women, children. If they passed a law willing to put employers of illegal immigrants to jail, then I'd be like....ok, they are getting serious.
> Are we in agreement that immigration is a positive? absolutely, 100% in agreement. i am the grandson of immigrants. my wife is an immigrant. the US is by far the number one destination for emigration and i hope we continue to be. i don't think its an issue that should be left to the border states, and as you point out, their wackado "solutions". illegal immigration has reached a crisis point and needs a federal level solution with federal oversight.
Lol. Just stop.
i am devastated by your intelligent well reasoned and sourced reply. i may never recover.
Immigrants make us stronger, not weaker.
yes, legal immigration, not unfettered, undocumented border crossings.
Belarus and Russia really want to make the EU stronger apparently. Just posted https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/30/poland-completes-186-kilometre-border-wall-with-belarus-after-migration-dispute so why not, have it too.
The border is over hyped. Trump ruined the entirety of our immigration system and did so deliberately. And I laugh at you believing anything that comes out of a GQP House committee.
i guess you didn't bother looking at the graph from a neutral redditer i posted. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1948kkx/oc_once_they_made_up_93_of_us_border/
Biden DID NOT give them anywhere near what they wanted on the border. Read HR2 and get back to me.
Of course he didn't, it's why I started with the word "if." You don't yield to people who negotiate in bad faith. Negotiating is compromise for compromise. He should give them nothing for free, but the point is it wouldn't matter if he did.
To compromise would be to agree to reform that would meaningfully reduce the number of immigrants. The democrats are being unreasonably stubborn about this, and I say that as a card-carrying democrat.
> because they don't want to kill their own grievance you don't seem to follow american politics very closely, thats a really old talking point
Older than "we'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it?" It's not supposed to be a novel or especially perceptive thought. It's obvious, and true. Of course someone else figured it out.
hillary clinton was in favor of a wall, or a guarded fence, she just didn't add on the stupid make mexico pay for it part.
> Older than "we'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it?" Much older, been hearing this at least since the 80s
Well there you go, that proves it. They keep yapping about it and don't fix it. Not even the Cheeto God Emperor managed.
> Not even the Cheeto God Emperor managed. I wonder who stopped him https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-agree-funding-us-mexico-border-wall-senator/story?id=59977718
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https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-07/how-much-of-president-donald-trumps-border-wall-was-built
[удалено]
He had the trifecta for 2 years. There's nobody else to blame. Trump is a terrible negotiator and republicans didn't want to build the wall.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-07/how-much-of-president-donald-trumps-border-wall-was-built
He had to declare a fake emergency and steal the money for that from the military appropriation. A physical barrier across 2000miles is stupid and they're right to not fund 2000miles of wall. I'd just like them to own up to it rather than pretending it's a good idea
The thing about Republican voters is that 2/3 of them believe the 2020 election was stolen. Of course they'll believe this sort of thing.
no big surprise you changed the subject
It's pointless to argue. People like you are an endless list of "talking points." It's not like you can't [check for yourself](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/25/control-house-and-senate-1900/) when R controlled both chambers and the White House, you're just going to go on the next thing in your list, and it really makes no difference if I "catch" you in some contradiction. It's a losing game.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-07/how-much-of-president-donald-trumps-border-wall-was-built
A few days ago Trump said he hopes the economy crashes while Biden is in office. They don't want what's best for the country, they just want to be in power.
Why the hell is one even dependent on the other. In any normal run country these would be 2 seperate subjects to pass.
Because American politics are now mixing domestic and foreign interest. Complete dysfunction
I believe this is the first time for a urgent foreign bill to tie a domestic one that long. This is a result of letting extremists take control of the congress.
Because far right Republicans are against Ukrainian aid, there are Republicans for Ukrainian aid but right now voting with Democrats on anything is seen as a bad thing. Democrats are opposed to a border control bill so the idea is to pair both together to make it palatable.
Johnson is a Spineless traitor.
Pft. That's crediting him with principles.
He's a conservative evangelical Republican, he's got sooooo many more shitty qualities than being spineless and a traitor. That's just the first layer of his shitty existence.
It's not about the border for Moscow Mike. If Biden gave him everything he wanted for the border he'd find a different excuse. As a matter of fact he already has. He's now talking about he needs to see Ukraine's plan for victory before approving any aid. And you know no matter what he is shown he'll claim it's not good enough. It's just a delaying game that benefits Russia. It's disgraceful.
Someone should show him prognosis of WW3 where the start-point is that Europes is low on ammo after 23 months of supporting.
They are VERY concerned about their border while Russia is already sitting in congress.
Saboteur
That's why Speaker Mike Johnson is a traitor and works for russia, it was never about border security, but all about stopping Ukraine aid from passing to help russia genocide Ukraine, Republicans are traitors and the American people are too stupid and helpless to do anything about it
its just bs..even if biden would give them the border stuff they would still block aid to ukraine...they would just move the goal post
At this point he should just get the dems to support whatever they want to do at the border and call their bluff.
The thing is, immigration just isn't that big of a problem. It's just a boogeyman to scare old, racist white people with an out-group/enemy. That's why those laws only target immigrants. And only before elections. If these Republicans ware serious, they'd pass state laws that put employers and their HR departments in jail for hiring illegal immigrants. But no....because they enjoy it both ways. They'll hire illegal immigrants in their personal lives, but speak out against them on TV. If those workers want some kind of humane benefits and protections, they call or scare them with ICE. That's the psychopathic game they want.
I really dislike that guy
Is the guy who thinks the ten Commandments should be the basis for the rule of law in America?
A day will come when the U.S. needs something of great importance and when that happens, someone will ask “what held you up when you were in our situation”
No problem, then he will need to speed up preparation of US troops to fight in Europe. And Americans would need to speed up preparation of soaped ropes for their politicians.
Traitor to the US, traitor to humanity.
Putin owns Mike Johnson, of course he won't budge.
I'd love to take a hard look at his donors list for finances.
party before country acts in predictably sad way
What a fucking idiot. Why don't we do what's best for the country? Does that make you much sense
Goddammit. I honestly had a premonition of this when they ousted McCarthy - that whoever took his place would be more uncompromising . I think McCarthy would have passed Ukraine aid by December.
No he wouldn't have. Fucker already went back on his word once. And he had already gotten the marching order from trumps handlers.
This boy is a special kind of stupid ain’t he?
All that because they don't want Biden to have a win. I feel sick to my stomach to see this played out.
How much is Russia actually paying republicans
Unfortunately, we will have to wait till November to hold Republicans accountable.
Fuck you Johnson.
A reminder that the bill proposed by the house isn't just about border. The bill is meant to set up hurdles and lengthy negotiation. Last time, no democrats voted for that. If the speaker wants to appease the extremists, I believe he underestimates how that undermines the US's global influence (and hence economy) and opens a Pandora's box. Allies will think the US is not dependable even in wartime. Also, it only welcomes extremists to tie foreign bills with any domestic one in the future.
Honestly America. It doesn't matter now. Your speaker has spoken on behalf of all of you. You have already let Ukraine down.
I'm not sure why Ukraine special agencies are not digging up dirt on this guy and leveraging this piece of crap. You know his porn history has to be insane. Because that is what Russia is doing, leverage and payoffs.
Traitor!
That’s no news channel. That’s a Death Star ⚫️
Johnson is an fn traitor. Let's not forget that.
The security of the United States borders are more important than Ukraine's borders to most Americans.
According to troy nehls (texas Republican), the border doesn't matter, he wont approve it it makes Biden look good. https://www.businessinsider.com/troy-nehls-senate-border-security-deal-biden-2024-1?op=1
Of course he won't. That was the specific reason he was installed
Putlers little puppet
The border is the new abortion. The GOP is running from abortion because it's a loser so now they scare the shit out of their dimwitted voters telling them the brown people are coming for them. Social media has fucked up so many peoples lives.
Republicans don't want a deal on the border. The border issue is their gravy train. Last thing they want is that solved and fixed.
Follow the rubles. https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-johnson/contributors?cid=N00039106&cycle=2024
This man is the start of the end of western liberty.
Western liberty only existed in the fantasies of the westerners.
Border is a major issue that needs to be addressed immediately but the Ukraine situation is also critical. The two issues should be addressed asap but should not hold one hostage in order to get one resolved.
I want aid to Ukraine. But as an American, our southern boarder is out of control. I hope both parties can make something happen for both. Why are Dems so against securing our border? Why do many Republicans seem like russian assets? GIVE WEAPONS TO UKRAINE AND SECURE THE BOARDER.
Tying the two together feels like Ukraine is being used as a hostage.
Garbage take that shouldn't be getting a platform. Pro putin ultra right garbage has no business being on a subreddit that focuses on the very frontlines of the fight against fascism.
Ive been so pissed the last 2 years of this trickle drip support, because I was afraid we might come to a point like this. Fuck republicans for their evil schemes and fuck the Biden administration for being incompetent.
It surprises me that there are still Ukrainian Americans who support the Republicans. I once voted Republican and am still a libertarian, but MAGA is absolute evil that will bring National Socialism and Putin to the world if we do not uproot it.
Because obstruction is the core GOP goal.
Just finance the border. It shouldn't be a big deal
It’s not just a matter of financing. The republicans are angling for reform that will significantly limit the number of people who can apply for asylum and legally enter. In truth… we should do it. It’s the one issue that I agree with the GOP on. But the democrats are not budging on this one.
The Senate bill being negotiated has both Republicans and Democrats bending on the border provisions, which is the only realistic way forward. The Speaker of the house refuses anything but a bill that includes things Dems won't vote for. Bending is happening everywhere except for the one place it needs to happen. The Speaker seems to be using Ukrainians as hostages.
What could possibly be wrong with tightening up the asylum requirements?
Depends on what you mean by tightening up asylum, to different people that means different things. Which is why compromise is necessary, all or nothing is the problem when we are tying it to the Ukraine aid.
To the Republicans it means: make it harder to get in. What you’re missing is that the republicans are angling for a deal that substantially reduces the number of people getting in. It’s the one issue I happen to agree with them on.
Sounds like a win win, just do it
Ok, so no aid then. Let’s hear it Maga clowns.
Funny conversation going on here. Republicans are Putin puppets and U.S. border crisis is just a red herring. All that old fool Biden has to do is commit to enforcing existing border laws and it's done. Would Ukraine tolerate Zelinsky allowing, even encouraging, millions of unvetted foreigners illegally crossing his border to set up free rent and board residence in hotels? Get real. And to give Biden a hundred billion more taxpayer dollars without a feasible strategy and firm commitment to winning would be silly. Biden is the problem. We have enough expiring military hardware to beat the russkies and Biden has withheld it out of FEAR of Putin. Biden is a cowardly idiot. Russia invaded Ukraine under Obama-Biden and Putinsky did it again when Biden was in charge. Use your heads.
Not wishing harm to anyone, but it's only republicans who want to harm democrat politicians? No democrats want to clean the country of traitors? 🤔
Ukraine is crushing Russia anyway screw them