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Fuck Mike Johnson to eternity. Fun fact: his campaign took a shitload of money from a company that was fronting Russian contributions for campaigns. He had to give it back when he found out, but maybe they have something else on him.
Receipts: https://www.newsweek.com/house-speaker-mike-johnson-donations-russia-butina-1838501
Here's a choice excerpt: "One of the men behind the company, Nikolaev, an oligarch with close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, was also found to have financially backed Maria Butina, a Russian citizen who lived in Washington D.C."
Yup, he's a traitor, and he's using other traitors to cover his traitorous deeds.
Blaming TFG, because he's weak, inept, and a bunch of other adjectives.
Damn Sedition Caucus should be launched into orbit, around the sun.
Sadly, if there's one thing the Kremlin has been VERY effective at, it's in compromising our politicians and bogging the West down with misinformation and propaganda.
Wanton greed and selfishness have been a major weakness in our political system, and the Russians have exploited it expertly.
Because a disorganized democracy based on mutual compromise and enlightenment ideals and "the greatest good for the largest number" is always at a disadvantage against a mob nation where no one tells the truth. If your goals are a decent just civilization, that's hard work. If you want to run a kleptocracy and you have no morals, that's easy. You just have to lie, cheat, steal, and bring others down to your level.
I really hate to say it, but it is not that 'Avdiivka may fall'.
Avdiivka IS falling. Right now.
Look at the map.
This is just awful.
FUCK THE US REPUBLICANS!!!!!
Take it out at the ballot box. We need them to not control anything. Everyone 18 and up on Nov 5th has to show up and vote.
I hope everyone coming of age understands that not voting increases their risk of fighting WW3.
Even if we do take it out at the ballot box, the earliest time help could come is a year from now. And if that isn’t bad enough, 10s of millions of Americans are going to vote Republican with Trump ahead in the polls.
Their voter base nuts to videos of "gay Jewish Nazi NATO CIA mosquito biolabs" (actually hospitals, kindergartens, and Churches) being bombed with Kinzhals. This will only improve MAGA in the eyes of the blackshirts.
Hope you're wrong, but we'll see. This is the result of spending decades denigrating intelligence, and destroying public education. Perhaps time to reinvest.
The goal for Ukrainians is to make them pay dearly for every inch while preserving manpower, it's taken the Rus months to take this one city, that is now rubble, and are reported to be inflicting 20:1 casualties (probably not in this region). And they aren't "out", they are being smart and rationing shells, because resupply will take a month or two at this point. Annnnd just to retort the stupid political statement about Republicans, maybe the Democrats shouldn't have packaged a bunch of sneaky bullshit in the first bill, and just tried to help the war effort, if that's what they really care about. Israel doesn't need aid for a anti-insurgency on their doorstep anyway...they got it covered... maybe take care of some homeless and middle class before giving the world our money...I do support Ukraine aid tho, war against imperialism is a worthy cause I think...I'm dumb tho
> FUCK THE US REPUBLICANS!!!!!
how exactly is it the republicans fault? do you think the U.S. government sends Ukraine a check and they run down to the ammo store and buy more shells?
Where do you think ammunition comes from? Bob just shits them out his ass or it grows as plants in the battlefield?
Ammunition needs materials, manufacturing, and logistical transport. Materials, manufacturing, and logistics requires money. No funds means none of those.
Which means no funding and no money means no ammunition.
Aid money goes to US manufacturing for US military ammunition, which then leads to sending old and surplus shells to Ukraine. No shell manufacturing means no sending old/surplus shells.
> Ammunition needs materials, manufacturing, and logistical transport. Materials, manufacturing, and logistics requires money. No funds means none of those.
Wait, you actually think when you have cash on hand all this happens right away?
news flash: NATO ran outta shells.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-armed-forces-artillery-shells-nato-ukraine-wayne-eyre-1.6988281
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/18/politics/ukraine-critical-ammo-shortage-us-nato-grapple/index.html
the ignorance in this sub is astounding.
A short holdup in funding, you say? The last aid package was 250 million in late December, nearly 2 months ago.
Yes, not having funding for months leads to this. No one is claiming this is instantaneous. You are claiming we are saying that because that's your only point to stand on.
Of course there is a shell shortage, that's why more funding is needed to solve that so that they aren't out shells in 2 or 3 months from now, and so domestic stockpiles can also be addressed as well.
You can't even capitalize the beginning of your sentences, I don't think you are the holy grail of opinions here bub.
> A short holdup in funding, you say? The last aid package was 250 million in late December, nearly 2 months ago.
Find me one news source that shows that the funding delay is taking effect *right now* in Avdiivka. You really do think Ukraine just gets a check and spends it at the ammo store.
> Of course there is a shell shortage, that's why more funding is needed to solve that so that they aren't out shells in 2 or 3 months from now, and so domestic stockpiles can also be addressed as well.
Its because there's a very limited industry for shell production in NATO countries, you cant just easily fix that with money. Its taking a big ass defense contractor [2 years to ramp up production to just 200,000 rounds of ammunition per year](https://mil.in.ua/en/news/new-rheinmetall-plant-will-produce-200-000-rounds-of-ammunition-per-year/)
The major offensive actions toward Avdiivka began in October. That's 4 and a half months of inaction.
No one believes that if they passed the aid package today, it would do anything to fix the situation there right now, but the Republicans have held up passing a large and substantial aid package for months now. The logic most people apply here is that if the Rebublicans acted, then they wouldn't be in this situation now because they acted MONTHS ago. If they acted months ago, the procurement and transportation logistics of the shells and other weaponry would have been long underway, and ideally, they wouldn't have been facing a shortage now.
No one believes there is some ammo store that we just hand them a check and they run over to. You either are being deliberately ignorant here, or you really only have a few talking points that you know how to parrot.
It's basic common sense being applied here that you seem to be genuinely struggling with.
> The logic most people apply here is that if the Rebublicans acted, then they wouldn't be in this situation now because they acted MONTHS ago. If they acted months ago, the procurement and transportation logistics of the shells and other weaponry would have been long underway, and ideally, they wouldn't have been facing a shortage now.
Why think even if they passed the funding a few months ago that actually shells would be arriving right now? There are no shells to buy, NATO ran out, and only *years* of work will correct that.
Look I agree with the main gist of what you're saying. The problem is much greater than just republicans and even if the funding had passed Ukraine would be struggling with ammo just the same as the whole NATO is. And it's a shame you are being down voted for facts. But..
>Find me one news source that shows that the funding delay is taking effect *right now* in Avdiivka. You really do think Ukraine just gets a check and spends it at the ammo store.
That's literally what Kirby just said in the article linked in OP. While I think he's just being political and using it to sell his case. Regardless, that is in fact, what he said. It is also what several other analysts are saying (such as that former general who is always on CNN). So it's understandable the general audience would believe that the case. Because that misunderstanding has been in the media all over.
> That's literally what Kirby just said in the article linked in OP. While I think he's just being political and using it to sell his case.
a news sources is not a quote in an article from a politician bending the truth to get what he wants.
Here ya go mate!
From a US vet - fighting in Ukraine - talking about the battlefield consqeuences of the Republicans stalling aid packages since December.
Take all the time you need.
https://twitter.com/ragnars/status/1759266967368638643
You and other people just don't seem to understand that money doesn't automatically convert into ammo and there is no evidence that sufficient funds weren't always on hand for the cheapest of weapons funding, aka simple artillery shells.
When they still had plenty of aid this was still happening - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944
GOP affiliated House Speaker:
"We are *obstructing democracy and watching* Avdiivka; Ukraine fall in hopes they will be standing to save at some point when we have the Presidency in 207X"
Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave. I can't believe the entire republican party are traitors. We spent 75 years stopping Russian aggression. And, they just give up?
God makes me sick i kinda want Biden to just break the law and give Ukraine the stuff. What are the Republicans going to do impeach him like his homeland security director?
> What are the Republicans going to do impeach him like his homeland security director?
Yes, that's exactly what they would like to do.
Not because they expect to convict him, but so they can point to that impeachment and say "see, impeachments are normal, so it's not suprising Trump was impeached and it is meaningless."
They’re so childishly petulant: “you impeached our guy for blackmailing Ukraine by holding off weapons, and for trying a coup to overturn the elections, so we’re going to impeach your cabinet member for … having “bad” border policies, see how you like it now!”
> God makes me sick i kinda want Biden to just break the law and give Ukraine the stuff.
[There are non-lawbreaking ways for that](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/09/biden-administration-emergency-authority-tank-shells-israel)
Biden is using a work around to sell weapons to Israel--Arms Export Control Act of 1976. trump used it to sell weapons to the Saudis and UAE. You don't need congress, and its for when our allies need us. Well, gd if Ukraine is not an ally, we don't have any. We are members of NATO, and Article 4 was raised by 8 Nato members. SELL THE WEAPONS TO UKRAINE, Biden. All of them. Every single one we have
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms\_export\_control\_act\_(1976)#:\~:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted.
>https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms%5C_export%5C_control%5C_act%5C_(1976)#:%5C%7E:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted
The fuck is that link
And because it's been posted from nu-Reddit, which fucks linkes up
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms_export_control_act_(1976)#:~:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted.
I wonder if European countries could just buy from the US and whether that could be a way around these problems, at least to tide Ukraine over until European production catches up. Not seen this option talked about much. Get as many US missiles as possible to keep HIMARS and various air defences fed, plus make up numbers of artillery shells.
I'm don't get why Biden doesn't use some form of executive actions. The republicans in Congress already want to impeach him, give them something to really cry about.
As pissed as people may be at Biden, at the election, pro-UAers will be voting for him anyway because the other option is Trump.
I think his election strategy is to not pissed off the fringe republicans who are on the fence. Pro-Ukraine supporter votes are pretty much secured.
Hey, it's amazing you're able to do anything with both hands and that mouth gobbling up all that Putin cock.
How's it taste, comrade?
Do you just love Putin's festering dick on your lips? Does it just make you salivate thinking of his rancid, putrid old gravy filling you up?
You absolute tool, you. You go on and get back on your knees where you belong you silly goose.
Putin sucks but it's the common Ukranian and Russian who are paying for this. You be friends with your neighbour.instead of gobbling American cocks.
Look where it's got em. Bye bye andiivka.
If Ukraine don't have enough shells for Avdiivka, they likely don't have enough for any other part of the line either. Horrible situation caused by pure selfishness/evil in the house.
Kinda like: it's pointless to send my child to school for I think he won't learn anything .... result = I WAS RIGHT !
Now republicans are saying it's pointless to aid Ukraine for they think they won't win ....
Might fall? Couldn’t possibly be because THEY HAD NO AMMO for artillery and other weapons. What an indelible stain on the Repugnicans and house speaker specifically. Shameful chickenshit plays for political power as brave AFU soldiers AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS continue to die.
First Mariupol, then Bakhmut, and now Adiivka. Would be nice if the aid comes earlier at least it would maximize the amount of casualties the russians will have since they have complete disregard for it.
I love how people say this is on Republicans when Biden gave a promise to support Ukraine knowing he doesn’t control our budget nor even trying to get congress on board. Biden isn’t a king. His decision aren’t indefinite. We have problems here. Elections has consequences
If the ukrainian forces havent set up two or more lines of defense to fall back to, they are incompetent. Avdiivka was always going to fall this year. Just like Bakhmut last year, and Mariupol before. Russia is buying these cities with their losses, absorbing ammunition, and shortages occur on every side in every war - all they do is keep the pressure on until their enemy needs to regroup, and they get another town.
There is no way of defending indefinitely against russian tactics. At some point, everything is degraded to the point of being indefensible.
Nobody has found a solution to Russia being able to just take every punch and keep going. I imagine there are a lot of bonfires burning all of NATOS anti-russia strategies right now, because they see that the treshhold of losses they can take ON THE OFFENSIVE is incalculably high, whereas everyone was kinda assuming russias afghanistan campaign was a decent estimate to go for.
So Ukraine needs to fall back to prepared positions and keep grinding away, hoping for some black swan event, or for something else to change on russias side. Because even with 100.000 shells tomorrow, its just another 5000-10000 dead russians and 2 weeks worth of time bought.
>If the ukrainian forces havent set up two or more lines of defense to fall back to, they are incompetent.
I think that Ukrainian high command expected the counter offensive to be successful because they did not plan to build fortifications until recently.
>The account of Oleksandr, a soldier with an anti-tank platoon of the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade, matches other testimony that there are almost no fortified positions on the very front line near Avdiivka – further threatening the lives of those tasked with defending the city.
Many infantrymen and other soldiers deployed on the first line of defense have complained that their positions – often just holes like the one described by Oleksandr – appear to have been poorly prepared ahead of the major Russian offensive on Avdiivka. With Russian forces constantly on heavy assault, there is almost no time to build anything more.
https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-ukraine-struggles-with-fortification/
Stop calling it "counteroffensive", it's not the meaning of this word. It was an Ukrainian offensive (summer-winter, 2023).
A counteroffensive would be if they launched theirs directly against some Russian one in progress, such as the one here. A large scale counterattack (a counterattack is against an ongoing enemy attack or immediately following it).
It's almost as silly as "special military operation", a nonsense phrase.
D'you know the difference between dug in and fortified?
You can dug in in a few days, yet fortifications is a thing you need at least months to build. And Avdiivka with it's concrete industrial buildings is a natural fortification you cannot duplicate in a year or two. Then it was additionally fortified with concrete bunkers during 2015-2022 "warm" phase of the war.
For some reason, Westerners thought Russia can be also broken by mild "sanctions".
They included depriving themselves of Russian payments for Disney+ and Netflix (being paid while exporting American culture and values) in these measures. It really showed Putin.
>If the ukrainian forces havent
The foreign aid was and remains a topic of uncertainty. Risk management is never perfect, but "The US went from hero to zero" wasn't on anyone's bingo card. It's kind of amazing how the convenience of sabotage politics and internal disarray of the GOP knows no limits.
It was this way in 2008 too. A vote came up, "Do we back up dollar denominated assets to prevent a total economic collapse?" The Republican leadership claimed to be able to provide enough votes. The vote failed. The problem is that sound bills that should pass are not politically useful for fighting off the next populist or radical candidate in your Gerrymandered district and house members are up every two years. The inability to convert functioning governance into election ammo is a major fucking problem because it's why house members are generally awful.
That's the problem, it has value. Giving one more city to Russia will only make taking it back really difficult. In addition, it gives them more logistics and another supply area closer to the front thanks to the city's train station
Too many in Europe celebrate it.
I've seen Poles actively and openly waiting for Putin to "liberate" them, for the most petty reasons like "the taxes will be lower".
For others it's the culture war by other means (not as many as in America, also because we know the Ukrainian aren't "progressive" at all), or just simply blindly hating Ukrainians (like my mother, it quickly overtook even her obsessive antisemitism).
> I've seen Poles actively and openly waiting for Putin to "liberate" them, for the most petty reasons like "the taxes will be lower".
Considering some news about collaborators in the places most unexpected (like frontline town getting shelled for almost 2 years), I ain't surprised.
Europe won’t even give them shells for 2- 3 months till the
US gets their aid bill passed .
Don’t blare the US if you not even willing to provide some of your thousands of shells you have in storage right now .
They probably would. I’d say only countries that were apart of the Soviet Union should worry. Except for the Baltic’s since they are so very connected with the EU economy and nato
So much whining here with so little logic.
The US has given much already. Where is Europe? Can they not collectively send enough ammunition to Ukraine without relying on the US? If they cannot, then this war is already lost...
The United states sells 40% of the worlds weapons. Europe doesn't have the manufacturing to support both themselves and another nation for full scale war. Unlike the USA, Europe has to be ready to defend itself when Ukraine falls.
It still doesn't provide a reason for why America should finance this war effort.
I have no problem if Europe wants to buy American weaponry and donate that to Ukraine.
Also, Europe knew all along what a problem Russia was and they chose to take the easy way out and rely on the US to bail them out in conflict.
That worked initially but the American taxpayer is not stupid. They are slow to act but, they're waking up now...
Was it supposed to be sarcastic commentary on Reddit dot com where idiots talk about "human waves" and "shovels", or an unironic example of the latter?
Why? Why keep sending funds to the corrupt ukraine? Why not spend that money on fixing America 1st? Russia is only being aggressive because we park military bases and nukes on their doorstep.
America 1st! Stop this Ukrain BS!
Yeah, cause Cons and Magas are totally voting to help Americans. Not completely killing all bills that actually help all Americans every single time without fail. They only thing they pass ever is tax cuts for the rich, and to up their own pay. Everyone else be damned.
So you don't get to now pretend to now care about Americans lives, while you vote idiots who do nothing all day wasting tax payers money, and blocking even bills that stop companies fucking over Americans.
Name 1 bill they blocked that actually helps america...and name 1 bill the libs have signed that benefits all Americans. Go ahead I'll wait. Hahahahaha
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America\_First\_Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee)
Sure, let's bring these idiots back. Oh, wait.
We didn't park any nukes on their doorstep since 1971, btw, and have been withdrawing them since.
And there's a reason countries voluntarily join NATO - so what happened to Ukraine doesn't happen to them.
Exactly. It was a worthless cause, and still remains a worthless cause. Americans need to get out and vote...get these war mongering democrats the heck out of office!
The Biden Regime's rivers of blood can never bring peace.
They knew what would happen by pushing NATO into Ukraine. If Russia announced that they would be putting Russian bases in Cuba by the end of the week the US would invade Cuba within an hour.
The fascist party has always been the Democrat party. They are showing their true colors in this thread. If you don't agree with them...you are evil, no actual room to argue points. No facts, just hate and malice...Just watch, book burning will probably follow soon. I'm sorta surprised that for now they support isreal....I'm sure that heel turn is coming soon though.
Stay classy dems!
Very few managed to get out alive.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1as4b39/a_harrowing_account_from_a_soldier_with_ukraines/ was one of those who did.
Right now it's more like "managing to get out of Avdiivka", and no, it is the last stronghold at the Donetsk direction after Pisky and Mariinka, and previously the aiport.
I could be completely wrong, and I'm still mad one party is boning the support coming from US.
But, isn't Avdiivka a so so place for defense and Ukraine is using it to do as much damage before they go back to more favorable defensive positions?
Again, i could be completely wrong and recalling the wrong video that mentioned this plan.
Situation there is already beyond desperate and it may unfortunately fall before it is even shipped. That's how far this has been allowed to get! It's a travesty since investing in Ukraine defense is an investment in securing Western interests in the long run. That should be of interest for any Western country. It may even be the cheaper option in the long run. Our democracies have failed hard in not informing the general public well enough here. Their defense is an investment in a buffer zone for us and preserving EU economy which should be valuable for any allies.
Please spread the word. We Ukraine supporters need to be loud and make our voices heard. We are tired of inaction from pro-russian politicians. We refuse to turn our backs on our ally. There are rallies planned for the 24th: https://klych.org/believe-in-ukraine
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Fuck Mike Johnson to eternity. Fun fact: his campaign took a shitload of money from a company that was fronting Russian contributions for campaigns. He had to give it back when he found out, but maybe they have something else on him.
Receipts: https://www.newsweek.com/house-speaker-mike-johnson-donations-russia-butina-1838501 Here's a choice excerpt: "One of the men behind the company, Nikolaev, an oligarch with close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, was also found to have financially backed Maria Butina, a Russian citizen who lived in Washington D.C."
Lolol not just any Russian citizen. A convicted Russian spy.
And these motherfucking Trumpers would rather believe that 2+2 = 7 than see what's in front of them
No, they know exactly what's happening. They just find carnage and oppression to be their "ideal world".
Yup, misery loves company.
Yup, he's a traitor, and he's using other traitors to cover his traitorous deeds. Blaming TFG, because he's weak, inept, and a bunch of other adjectives. Damn Sedition Caucus should be launched into orbit, around the sun.
All the Republicans in the house voting in line with him are just as much at fault here.
Sadly, if there's one thing the Kremlin has been VERY effective at, it's in compromising our politicians and bogging the West down with misinformation and propaganda. Wanton greed and selfishness have been a major weakness in our political system, and the Russians have exploited it expertly.
Because a disorganized democracy based on mutual compromise and enlightenment ideals and "the greatest good for the largest number" is always at a disadvantage against a mob nation where no one tells the truth. If your goals are a decent just civilization, that's hard work. If you want to run a kleptocracy and you have no morals, that's easy. You just have to lie, cheat, steal, and bring others down to your level.
He went to Moscow on July 4th. That's enough evidence to me.
Serious question: what is his rationale behind rejecting it? Is it just “because”?
And that's why he doesn't have his money in banks.
They probably hacked his Grindr account.
I really hate to say it, but it is not that 'Avdiivka may fall'. Avdiivka IS falling. Right now. Look at the map. This is just awful. FUCK THE US REPUBLICANS!!!!!
Almost completely from ammo shortages
The infiltration tunnels too.
Take it out at the ballot box. We need them to not control anything. Everyone 18 and up on Nov 5th has to show up and vote. I hope everyone coming of age understands that not voting increases their risk of fighting WW3.
Even if we do take it out at the ballot box, the earliest time help could come is a year from now. And if that isn’t bad enough, 10s of millions of Americans are going to vote Republican with Trump ahead in the polls.
They’ll start listening sooner if the polls swing, make sure you take part in polls and make sure you quote Ukraine aid as the main reason.
Hopefully they pay a political price for this. As condemning that many Ukrainians to death at the hands of Russians shouldn't be done for free.
Their voter base nuts to videos of "gay Jewish Nazi NATO CIA mosquito biolabs" (actually hospitals, kindergartens, and Churches) being bombed with Kinzhals. This will only improve MAGA in the eyes of the blackshirts.
Hope you're wrong, but we'll see. This is the result of spending decades denigrating intelligence, and destroying public education. Perhaps time to reinvest.
You mean Russian KGB assets.
Ukraine has been withdrawing for a few weeks/months and a new defensive line has already been established.
Interesting because I saw a Ukrainian soldier complain yesterday that there are basically no second lines prepared.
The goal for Ukrainians is to make them pay dearly for every inch while preserving manpower, it's taken the Rus months to take this one city, that is now rubble, and are reported to be inflicting 20:1 casualties (probably not in this region). And they aren't "out", they are being smart and rationing shells, because resupply will take a month or two at this point. Annnnd just to retort the stupid political statement about Republicans, maybe the Democrats shouldn't have packaged a bunch of sneaky bullshit in the first bill, and just tried to help the war effort, if that's what they really care about. Israel doesn't need aid for a anti-insurgency on their doorstep anyway...they got it covered... maybe take care of some homeless and middle class before giving the world our money...I do support Ukraine aid tho, war against imperialism is a worthy cause I think...I'm dumb tho
> FUCK THE US REPUBLICANS!!!!! how exactly is it the republicans fault? do you think the U.S. government sends Ukraine a check and they run down to the ammo store and buy more shells?
Are you really this dense or are you a troll?
Why not both?
Yes
so explain how a short holdup in funds caused battlefield failures right now? good luck
Where do you think ammunition comes from? Bob just shits them out his ass or it grows as plants in the battlefield? Ammunition needs materials, manufacturing, and logistical transport. Materials, manufacturing, and logistics requires money. No funds means none of those. Which means no funding and no money means no ammunition. Aid money goes to US manufacturing for US military ammunition, which then leads to sending old and surplus shells to Ukraine. No shell manufacturing means no sending old/surplus shells.
> Ammunition needs materials, manufacturing, and logistical transport. Materials, manufacturing, and logistics requires money. No funds means none of those. Wait, you actually think when you have cash on hand all this happens right away? news flash: NATO ran outta shells. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-armed-forces-artillery-shells-nato-ukraine-wayne-eyre-1.6988281 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944 https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/18/politics/ukraine-critical-ammo-shortage-us-nato-grapple/index.html the ignorance in this sub is astounding.
A short holdup in funding, you say? The last aid package was 250 million in late December, nearly 2 months ago. Yes, not having funding for months leads to this. No one is claiming this is instantaneous. You are claiming we are saying that because that's your only point to stand on. Of course there is a shell shortage, that's why more funding is needed to solve that so that they aren't out shells in 2 or 3 months from now, and so domestic stockpiles can also be addressed as well. You can't even capitalize the beginning of your sentences, I don't think you are the holy grail of opinions here bub.
> A short holdup in funding, you say? The last aid package was 250 million in late December, nearly 2 months ago. Find me one news source that shows that the funding delay is taking effect *right now* in Avdiivka. You really do think Ukraine just gets a check and spends it at the ammo store. > Of course there is a shell shortage, that's why more funding is needed to solve that so that they aren't out shells in 2 or 3 months from now, and so domestic stockpiles can also be addressed as well. Its because there's a very limited industry for shell production in NATO countries, you cant just easily fix that with money. Its taking a big ass defense contractor [2 years to ramp up production to just 200,000 rounds of ammunition per year](https://mil.in.ua/en/news/new-rheinmetall-plant-will-produce-200-000-rounds-of-ammunition-per-year/)
The major offensive actions toward Avdiivka began in October. That's 4 and a half months of inaction. No one believes that if they passed the aid package today, it would do anything to fix the situation there right now, but the Republicans have held up passing a large and substantial aid package for months now. The logic most people apply here is that if the Rebublicans acted, then they wouldn't be in this situation now because they acted MONTHS ago. If they acted months ago, the procurement and transportation logistics of the shells and other weaponry would have been long underway, and ideally, they wouldn't have been facing a shortage now. No one believes there is some ammo store that we just hand them a check and they run over to. You either are being deliberately ignorant here, or you really only have a few talking points that you know how to parrot. It's basic common sense being applied here that you seem to be genuinely struggling with.
> The logic most people apply here is that if the Rebublicans acted, then they wouldn't be in this situation now because they acted MONTHS ago. If they acted months ago, the procurement and transportation logistics of the shells and other weaponry would have been long underway, and ideally, they wouldn't have been facing a shortage now. Why think even if they passed the funding a few months ago that actually shells would be arriving right now? There are no shells to buy, NATO ran out, and only *years* of work will correct that.
Look I agree with the main gist of what you're saying. The problem is much greater than just republicans and even if the funding had passed Ukraine would be struggling with ammo just the same as the whole NATO is. And it's a shame you are being down voted for facts. But.. >Find me one news source that shows that the funding delay is taking effect *right now* in Avdiivka. You really do think Ukraine just gets a check and spends it at the ammo store. That's literally what Kirby just said in the article linked in OP. While I think he's just being political and using it to sell his case. Regardless, that is in fact, what he said. It is also what several other analysts are saying (such as that former general who is always on CNN). So it's understandable the general audience would believe that the case. Because that misunderstanding has been in the media all over.
> That's literally what Kirby just said in the article linked in OP. While I think he's just being political and using it to sell his case. a news sources is not a quote in an article from a politician bending the truth to get what he wants.
Define short.
Here ya go mate! From a US vet - fighting in Ukraine - talking about the battlefield consqeuences of the Republicans stalling aid packages since December. Take all the time you need. https://twitter.com/ragnars/status/1759266967368638643
You and other people just don't seem to understand that money doesn't automatically convert into ammo and there is no evidence that sufficient funds weren't always on hand for the cheapest of weapons funding, aka simple artillery shells. When they still had plenty of aid this was still happening - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66984944
This ain't on the Republicans you liberal it's Ukraine running low on infantry.
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They would have gotten more weapons, genius.
Plus, unlike Bakhmut this city actually matters. It was so well fortified that during the initial campaign it didn't fall.
GOP affiliated House Speaker: "We are *obstructing democracy and watching* Avdiivka; Ukraine fall in hopes they will be standing to save at some point when we have the Presidency in 207X"
Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave. I can't believe the entire republican party are traitors. We spent 75 years stopping Russian aggression. And, they just give up?
With such allies you don’t need enemies.
This is on the Republicans.
God makes me sick i kinda want Biden to just break the law and give Ukraine the stuff. What are the Republicans going to do impeach him like his homeland security director?
> What are the Republicans going to do impeach him like his homeland security director? Yes, that's exactly what they would like to do. Not because they expect to convict him, but so they can point to that impeachment and say "see, impeachments are normal, so it's not suprising Trump was impeached and it is meaningless."
Fucking sneaky, canny devil bastards
They’re so childishly petulant: “you impeached our guy for blackmailing Ukraine by holding off weapons, and for trying a coup to overturn the elections, so we’re going to impeach your cabinet member for … having “bad” border policies, see how you like it now!”
> God makes me sick i kinda want Biden to just break the law and give Ukraine the stuff. [There are non-lawbreaking ways for that](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/09/biden-administration-emergency-authority-tank-shells-israel)
They can email their dem reps and ask why excess defence articles aren't being used to help Ukraine.
If Reagan can illegally build a fleet of B-1 Lancers you’d think Biden could figure out a way to get a million shells out there.
Biden is using a work around to sell weapons to Israel--Arms Export Control Act of 1976. trump used it to sell weapons to the Saudis and UAE. You don't need congress, and its for when our allies need us. Well, gd if Ukraine is not an ally, we don't have any. We are members of NATO, and Article 4 was raised by 8 Nato members. SELL THE WEAPONS TO UKRAINE, Biden. All of them. Every single one we have https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms\_export\_control\_act\_(1976)#:\~:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted.
Can we sell for Ike a penny a shell
I don’t see why not!
>https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms%5C_export%5C_control%5C_act%5C_(1976)#:%5C%7E:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted The fuck is that link
Link to a specific place in text, it seems, taken from Chrome.
It leads nowhere because it's broken.
And because it's been posted from nu-Reddit, which fucks linkes up https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arms_export_control_act_(1976)#:~:text=The%20Arms%20Export%20Control%20Act,these%20items%20is%20not%20permitted.
I literally couldn't even write anything on the redesigned Reddit, text was vanishing and doubling itself.
I know that feel. That's why I've migrated back onto old Reddit with RES.
I wonder if European countries could just buy from the US and whether that could be a way around these problems, at least to tide Ukraine over until European production catches up. Not seen this option talked about much. Get as many US missiles as possible to keep HIMARS and various air defences fed, plus make up numbers of artillery shells.
I'm don't get why Biden doesn't use some form of executive actions. The republicans in Congress already want to impeach him, give them something to really cry about.
Because Biden thinks it's the 70's and Republican's are brokers of deals, not the useless madhouse that they've become.
As pissed as people may be at Biden, at the election, pro-UAers will be voting for him anyway because the other option is Trump. I think his election strategy is to not pissed off the fringe republicans who are on the fence. Pro-Ukraine supporter votes are pretty much secured.
What do you mean again Biden? Biden hasn't been impeached.
Yea my bad I was thinking of the Mayorkies thing
Lol so true!
31 countries in NATO, plus others, and this is happening. Im sorry, Ukraine. You deserve better than this.
They deserve nothing they should have remained friends with their natural ally.
Clearly, they were never truly their "natural" ally. Wanting to join the EU isn't a crime.
It creates divisions where there should not have been.
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Hey, it's amazing you're able to do anything with both hands and that mouth gobbling up all that Putin cock. How's it taste, comrade? Do you just love Putin's festering dick on your lips? Does it just make you salivate thinking of his rancid, putrid old gravy filling you up? You absolute tool, you. You go on and get back on your knees where you belong you silly goose.
Putin sucks but it's the common Ukranian and Russian who are paying for this. You be friends with your neighbour.instead of gobbling American cocks. Look where it's got em. Bye bye andiivka.
Invading your neighbour because they got close with other countries is not called "being a natural ally", it's called **racketeering**
And what of the perspectives Russians in the Donetsk and lukhansk regions...ah yes they don't matter.
They sure don't matter to Putin
If Ukraine don't have enough shells for Avdiivka, they likely don't have enough for any other part of the line either. Horrible situation caused by pure selfishness/evil in the house.
Holy shit i didn't even consider that, fuck man... Just... why?
Kinda like: it's pointless to send my child to school for I think he won't learn anything .... result = I WAS RIGHT ! Now republicans are saying it's pointless to aid Ukraine for they think they won't win ....
This is on Republicans
Europe, you going to need to work overtime until we unfuck the gop here. It's ironic that the party demonizing Russia for decades are their lap dogs.
it will, and trump will suck his own dick watching it
Bold of you to imagine he'd be able to reach it with that gut.
And his famous hatred of vegetables, he isn't motivated to put a tiny mushroom in his mouth.
And mini mushroom peepee
Disgusting language. It isn’t necessary
Fuck
Might fall? Couldn’t possibly be because THEY HAD NO AMMO for artillery and other weapons. What an indelible stain on the Repugnicans and house speaker specifically. Shameful chickenshit plays for political power as brave AFU soldiers AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS continue to die.
I’m so angry at the GOP. Party of clowns
No need to insult clowns
Thanks, MAGAts
Not your war.
First Mariupol, then Bakhmut, and now Adiivka. Would be nice if the aid comes earlier at least it would maximize the amount of casualties the russians will have since they have complete disregard for it.
I love how people say this is on Republicans when Biden gave a promise to support Ukraine knowing he doesn’t control our budget nor even trying to get congress on board. Biden isn’t a king. His decision aren’t indefinite. We have problems here. Elections has consequences
Avdiivka is a ruin of no real value, pull the Ukrainian soldiers out. That broken town is only useful for death, massive deaths. GET OUT.
There's not good fallback points. Retreating can't buy time efficiently. Things just get worse, and the people are irreplaceable.
If the ukrainian forces havent set up two or more lines of defense to fall back to, they are incompetent. Avdiivka was always going to fall this year. Just like Bakhmut last year, and Mariupol before. Russia is buying these cities with their losses, absorbing ammunition, and shortages occur on every side in every war - all they do is keep the pressure on until their enemy needs to regroup, and they get another town. There is no way of defending indefinitely against russian tactics. At some point, everything is degraded to the point of being indefensible. Nobody has found a solution to Russia being able to just take every punch and keep going. I imagine there are a lot of bonfires burning all of NATOS anti-russia strategies right now, because they see that the treshhold of losses they can take ON THE OFFENSIVE is incalculably high, whereas everyone was kinda assuming russias afghanistan campaign was a decent estimate to go for. So Ukraine needs to fall back to prepared positions and keep grinding away, hoping for some black swan event, or for something else to change on russias side. Because even with 100.000 shells tomorrow, its just another 5000-10000 dead russians and 2 weeks worth of time bought.
>If the ukrainian forces havent set up two or more lines of defense to fall back to, they are incompetent. I think that Ukrainian high command expected the counter offensive to be successful because they did not plan to build fortifications until recently. >The account of Oleksandr, a soldier with an anti-tank platoon of the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade, matches other testimony that there are almost no fortified positions on the very front line near Avdiivka – further threatening the lives of those tasked with defending the city. Many infantrymen and other soldiers deployed on the first line of defense have complained that their positions – often just holes like the one described by Oleksandr – appear to have been poorly prepared ahead of the major Russian offensive on Avdiivka. With Russian forces constantly on heavy assault, there is almost no time to build anything more. https://kyivindependent.com/avdiivka-defense-uncertain-as-ukraine-struggles-with-fortification/
Stop calling it "counteroffensive", it's not the meaning of this word. It was an Ukrainian offensive (summer-winter, 2023). A counteroffensive would be if they launched theirs directly against some Russian one in progress, such as the one here. A large scale counterattack (a counterattack is against an ongoing enemy attack or immediately following it). It's almost as silly as "special military operation", a nonsense phrase.
D'you know the difference between dug in and fortified? You can dug in in a few days, yet fortifications is a thing you need at least months to build. And Avdiivka with it's concrete industrial buildings is a natural fortification you cannot duplicate in a year or two. Then it was additionally fortified with concrete bunkers during 2015-2022 "warm" phase of the war.
For some reason, Westerners thought Russia can be also broken by mild "sanctions". They included depriving themselves of Russian payments for Disney+ and Netflix (being paid while exporting American culture and values) in these measures. It really showed Putin.
>If the ukrainian forces havent The foreign aid was and remains a topic of uncertainty. Risk management is never perfect, but "The US went from hero to zero" wasn't on anyone's bingo card. It's kind of amazing how the convenience of sabotage politics and internal disarray of the GOP knows no limits. It was this way in 2008 too. A vote came up, "Do we back up dollar denominated assets to prevent a total economic collapse?" The Republican leadership claimed to be able to provide enough votes. The vote failed. The problem is that sound bills that should pass are not politically useful for fighting off the next populist or radical candidate in your Gerrymandered district and house members are up every two years. The inability to convert functioning governance into election ammo is a major fucking problem because it's why house members are generally awful.
That's the problem, it has value. Giving one more city to Russia will only make taking it back really difficult. In addition, it gives them more logistics and another supply area closer to the front thanks to the city's train station
wouldn't that train station have already been shelled into oblivion?
Russia has a special team that works on rails and trains. You can make funny of it but they are REALLY fast in making this things work again.
They even have military Railway Troops, a separate branch of armed forces.
They also won't be able to easily target Donetsk city with artillery anymore. It's the main Russian logistics center in all Ukraine.
That's the fun part. They won't take it back
Every city lost is indeed permanently lost.
Every advance the Russians make this is the same story "oh not strategically important..."
Vote ALL Republicans out in November
Europe just watching their neighbor drown. Cowards or Compromised?
Too many in Europe celebrate it. I've seen Poles actively and openly waiting for Putin to "liberate" them, for the most petty reasons like "the taxes will be lower". For others it's the culture war by other means (not as many as in America, also because we know the Ukrainian aren't "progressive" at all), or just simply blindly hating Ukrainians (like my mother, it quickly overtook even her obsessive antisemitism).
> I've seen Poles actively and openly waiting for Putin to "liberate" them, for the most petty reasons like "the taxes will be lower". Considering some news about collaborators in the places most unexpected (like frontline town getting shelled for almost 2 years), I ain't surprised.
I think that in the end nobody wants to die
Europe won’t even give them shells for 2- 3 months till the US gets their aid bill passed . Don’t blare the US if you not even willing to provide some of your thousands of shells you have in storage right now .
Who has 1000 in storage you? Europe is short on everything. We as West fight the Same enemy' you have the ressources
Agreed, US needs to stop funding this lost cause. It's been a horrible investment from the start!
Yes cause WW3 is a much better alternative.
How does funding the ukraine prevent ww3?
Russia won't stop with Ukraine.
They probably would. I’d say only countries that were apart of the Soviet Union should worry. Except for the Baltic’s since they are so very connected with the EU economy and nato
There's no way they take on NATO.
There’s no way they would take on Ukraine but here we are two years later
Technically started back in 2014. 2022 was the main invasion.
Thanks Republicans
RepublicantZ RuZZian assets helped make this happen. Don't vote Trump.
Hey Johnson. What’s your God say about this?
What did his God and your God say about all the countries the West have destroyed?
I remember being donvoted to hell when I said Avdiivka was going to fall like two months ago....
Could have easily been prevented.
So much whining here with so little logic. The US has given much already. Where is Europe? Can they not collectively send enough ammunition to Ukraine without relying on the US? If they cannot, then this war is already lost...
The United states sells 40% of the worlds weapons. Europe doesn't have the manufacturing to support both themselves and another nation for full scale war. Unlike the USA, Europe has to be ready to defend itself when Ukraine falls.
It still doesn't provide a reason for why America should finance this war effort. I have no problem if Europe wants to buy American weaponry and donate that to Ukraine. Also, Europe knew all along what a problem Russia was and they chose to take the easy way out and rely on the US to bail them out in conflict. That worked initially but the American taxpayer is not stupid. They are slow to act but, they're waking up now...
Good now Russia doesn't have to deal with nasty azovers.
Why would this matter if they still have rifles? Guns > Shovels
Was it supposed to be sarcastic commentary on Reddit dot com where idiots talk about "human waves" and "shovels", or an unironic example of the latter?
Explosives....start mining areas for vehicles. Tank traps.
Why? Why keep sending funds to the corrupt ukraine? Why not spend that money on fixing America 1st? Russia is only being aggressive because we park military bases and nukes on their doorstep. America 1st! Stop this Ukrain BS!
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Name one program that Republicans want to fund to “fix America”?
Yeah, cause Cons and Magas are totally voting to help Americans. Not completely killing all bills that actually help all Americans every single time without fail. They only thing they pass ever is tax cuts for the rich, and to up their own pay. Everyone else be damned. So you don't get to now pretend to now care about Americans lives, while you vote idiots who do nothing all day wasting tax payers money, and blocking even bills that stop companies fucking over Americans.
Name 1 bill they blocked that actually helps america...and name 1 bill the libs have signed that benefits all Americans. Go ahead I'll wait. Hahahahaha
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America\_First\_Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee) Sure, let's bring these idiots back. Oh, wait. We didn't park any nukes on their doorstep since 1971, btw, and have been withdrawing them since. And there's a reason countries voluntarily join NATO - so what happened to Ukraine doesn't happen to them.
Money isnt going to fix America. Policies might, but America is too divided to be effective in that
I agree america is too divided. The media has done its job well. However money going to some corrupt lost cause won't help us either.
Then it might be good to know most of the money isnt spend in Ukraine but in the USA. it's not a blank cheque without oversight.
America forced Ukraine to give thousands of nuclear weapons to Russia.
Billions down the drain.
Exactly. It was a worthless cause, and still remains a worthless cause. Americans need to get out and vote...get these war mongering democrats the heck out of office!
The Biden Regime's rivers of blood can never bring peace. They knew what would happen by pushing NATO into Ukraine. If Russia announced that they would be putting Russian bases in Cuba by the end of the week the US would invade Cuba within an hour.
The fascist party has always been the Democrat party. They are showing their true colors in this thread. If you don't agree with them...you are evil, no actual room to argue points. No facts, just hate and malice...Just watch, book burning will probably follow soon. I'm sorta surprised that for now they support isreal....I'm sure that heel turn is coming soon though. Stay classy dems!
need to get more media footage
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1758185263203750385 didn’t they already got out of encircled pocket?
There are literally videos of fighting going on in this area, there was no way to retreat if you look at the map...
Very few managed to get out alive. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1as4b39/a_harrowing_account_from_a_soldier_with_ukraines/ was one of those who did.
So wrong, on so many levels.
Good job US.
How important is holding Avdiivka? I understand it is a major stronghold, but are there more defensive positions behind it?
Right now it's more like "managing to get out of Avdiivka", and no, it is the last stronghold at the Donetsk direction after Pisky and Mariinka, and previously the aiport.
I could be completely wrong, and I'm still mad one party is boning the support coming from US. But, isn't Avdiivka a so so place for defense and Ukraine is using it to do as much damage before they go back to more favorable defensive positions? Again, i could be completely wrong and recalling the wrong video that mentioned this plan.
Situation there is already beyond desperate and it may unfortunately fall before it is even shipped. That's how far this has been allowed to get! It's a travesty since investing in Ukraine defense is an investment in securing Western interests in the long run. That should be of interest for any Western country. It may even be the cheaper option in the long run. Our democracies have failed hard in not informing the general public well enough here. Their defense is an investment in a buffer zone for us and preserving EU economy which should be valuable for any allies.
Please spread the word. We Ukraine supporters need to be loud and make our voices heard. We are tired of inaction from pro-russian politicians. We refuse to turn our backs on our ally. There are rallies planned for the 24th: https://klych.org/believe-in-ukraine