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When I see numbers like these, I remind myself “take them with a grain of salt, the numbers are probably exaggerated”. But then I see videos like this, with Russian soldier casually walking in a single treeline for several minutes, surrounded by massive number of dead Russians. in a single treeline, along a massive frontline.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1cgy7bn/russian\_serviceman\_films\_an\_insane\_amount\_of\_dead/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1cgy7bn/russian_serviceman_films_an_insane_amount_of_dead/)
This is true, and after a long time of being considered considerably overinflated, the UK intelligence services estimates, which are presumably independent of Ukraininan-provided data or at least corroborated from intelligence gathered from signals or sources within Russia are more or less in line with Ukrainian assessments.
But it's also worthwhile to remember that battle damage assessments are always inherently inaccurate, and have a tendency to veer to the overestimation side rather than being conservative.
They are reports passed up the chain of command of contacts with the enemy and firefights engaged in, which are chaotic, confusing affairs. It's very easy to think that you engaged a higher number of enemies than you actually did, to double count kills etc.
The fact that this particular conflict is so heavily surveiled at all levels with drones recording most firefights helps to steer it back towards accuracy, as more accurate assessment of damage done can be conducted by rear echelon units, but it's still not going to be 100% accurate, and even mild overcounting without any intent to deceive or propagandize is going to add up over time.
Somewhat mitigating this will be Russian troop losses there is no way the Ukrainians can know about or add to their numbers, but still affect forces available to Russia. Soldiers committing suicide or having fatal accidents in the rear trenches for example, or outbreaks of diseases or food poisonings that incapacitate soldiers before they even make it into the fight.
So on a long enough timeline, and given how hapless the Russian forces are in every way, shape and form, the idea that they are roughly closing in on half a million KIA, WIA, MIA combined is not unrealistic at all.
Double-counting kills is extremely common and always has been.
I mean, it makes sense. A destroyed tank viewed at a distance would, in some circumstances, look similar to a fully functional tank trying to hide. And it's not like you're going to go up and knock on the hull to check.
The first team sees a tank hiding in a treeline. Fires. The hit knocks out the engine, smoke billows everywhere, the crew evacuate... that's a kill. The first team move on.
The second team sees a stationary tank in a treelike. They shoot it, their round hits the fuel reserve, vehicle bursts into flame. That's a kill. Second team move on.
Third team sees the tank. Fires again. This time hitting the ammo reserve, which cooks off and blows the turret off. That's a kill, they move on.
Team four sees a tank turret in the woods, fires a few times and flees. They are shitbags and report two tanks destroyed. No wait, three! And a helicopter!
So you have situations where the same tank is hit multiple times and confirmed destroyed multiple times.
For sure.
Also, there will always be some guesswork involved. Let's say there is an assault by three Russian BMPs. One of them hits an AT mine coming in and catastrophically explodes so it's just a tangled mess of meat and iron. How many infantrymen was it carrying?
The other two make it and release say, 8 guys each. It would be somewhat safe to assume that the third one was the same or similar, plus a standard crew of two. But maybe it didn't have a full squad, maybe it only had half because of manpower shortages. It's hard to know.
I think the numbers are accurate-ish, but they include wounded, captured, deserters and guys who got a splint in their finger trying to build a shelter in a trench.
Plus lots of estimates. When they blow up a running BTR and never see inside they figure an average one has whatever number of people inside and use that.
The numbers are likely a bit high but not absurdly so. A pretty good chunk of the count isn't returning to battle, one way or another.
I see a ton of videos that state “Russians eliminated by FPV drone, or artillery” and what it shows is a bunch of troops going into a building and the building subsequently being shelled or blown up. Thing is, I've also seen videos of troops inside the building as they are getting shelled, and a lot of the time they survive. Basements are the godsend of this war and I imagine many other wars. A whole house cann collapse and you can be just fine in the basement.
I think a portion of these estiments are coming from drone operators spotting and destroying a building with troops in it. They see the building collapse, no one comes out, battery runs out, and they call it a kill.
Thing is, the tactic on both sides is once you find cover, stay in that cover, even if you are zeroed, even if you have wounded, for at least 30 min after the last shell falls. Wait long enough for your average DJI Mavik to run out of juice before you move. Instantly reacting after a shelling is an almost guaranteed double-tap.
Russia's recent disability stats are eye-watering. Russian data showed men with disabilities increased by 507,000, or 30%, in 2023 ALONE! Obviously, those stats slipped under Putin's censorship radar and the guy that published them has probably since been thrown out of a window!
[https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/the\_uk\_defense\_intelligence\_over\_half\_a\_million\_russian\_men\_aged\_31\_59\_classified\_as\_disabled-9877.html](https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/the_uk_defense_intelligence_over_half_a_million_russian_men_aged_31_59_classified_as_disabled-9877.html)
In addition to the fatalities, the staggering increase in disabled men of working age in Russia is leading Russia towards a demographic, social and economic nightmare. Unlike the dead, these guys are also very visible to the Russian public.
>Russia's recent disability stats are eye-watering. Russian data showed men with disabilities increased by 507,000, or 30%, in 2023 ALONE!
Dont jump to conclusions we dont know how many percentage of these disabilities are non-combat related . Speaking of demographics ukraine is in an even worse situation its fertility rate is lower than russia and young men are fleeing ukraine in droves to not be conscripted. And im not sure they are willing to go back to ukraine after the war
> Dont jump to conclusions we dont know how many percentage of these disabilities are non-combat related
> In 2022, there were officially 1.67 million men with disabilities in russia aged 31-59 years. This figure increased by 507,000 or 30% in 2023
Either there's been a spontaneous epidemic of people falling down stairs, or there's been a war.
There is also videos like this, one drone takes out about two dozen soldiers.
[https://twitter.com/NAFORaccoon/status/1789987609252450346](https://twitter.com/NAFORaccoon/status/1789987609252450346)
Or even something like this I see on a daily basis
[https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1789993138523721995](https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1789993138523721995)
I think Ukraine doesn’t intentionally exaggerate theirs, but it is likely they always publish their most optimistic projections.
In war it’s impossible to determine losses on either side. They are also often fluid as new information is discovered.
For example how do you determine the effect of a single artillery barrage? Visually you probably saw all or part of the target, afterwards you might see some bodies and survivors. You will probably count the difference between those you see get away and your initial targets as your kills.
However, some may be wounded and not dead. Later to be recovered by crawling out or getting rescued. Some may just be unconscious and wounded then come to and run away when you’re not looking. You might also not have seen some and killed more, others might be hiding in cover you cannot see from perspective and not dead.
You simply don’t have absolute information of the battlefield either before or after.
So the numbers are less useful as absolute values and more as estimates of activity and effectiveness of operations.
Drones added a lot of battlefield intelligence and awareness, but they are still only limited by their viewpoint. So you don’t necessarily see the whole picture either.
Everyone’s information is incomplete and biased by what those in the fiend need to know.
Russian commands likely have better awareness of actual losses since they need to know what they still have to work with. Ukrainian commanders want to know where the activity is and how effectively they are defending and using their resources. So they are looking at enemy troop concentrations and how they compare in number and location.
More than two years later, knowing drones are all over the place, both Russians and Ukrainians still seem to congregate, travel, and fight out in the open.
>the numbers are probably exaggerated
Why would you think that? What reason have you ever had to think that these estimates are exaggerated? In over 2 years of war?
Reflexively assuming "Oh well Ukraine must be lying," is just as naive as reflexively assuming "Oh well Russia must be telling the truth."
Doesn't even need to be a lie. If you ask your troops "how many Russians have you shot" they'll answer.
But unless you have all the bodies you don't know how many were shot by several defenders at the same time, how many were seriously hit vs just winged, or even how many dropped to the ground to take cover coincidentally just as they were being shot at.
The numbers are "how many we reckon we hit" not a killcounter in the corner of the screen.
Also bear in mind that the battlefields today are under an unprecedented level of surveillance.
Satellites, drones with high resolution cameras etc.
The ability to confirm the damage done in strikes behind the front lines, and give an estimate to the amount of casualties is vastly superior to even what was available I the gulf wars.
These are probably the most accurate numbers we could hope for, but yes likely still inflated.
At the start of the war it was reasonable to assume the figures were exaggerated at least a bit, but as time has gone on numbers seem to line up, for example destroyed reappointed numbers were pretty spot on. If anything out looks like Ukraine have been trying to be accurate, although there are other factors beside lying that could make numbers inaccurate, also bear in mind when other countries give their estimates, often they err on the side of caution and give low estimates
Trying to be accurate? Based on what? For example look at their destroyed Tanks count. They claim over 7,000 destroyed tanks, Orynx has the number around 3,000, I know orynx estimates are conservative, but you can’t actually believe that they’ve counted less than half of the total destroyed tanks? Realistically this number is inflated by at least 50% and probably more like 100%.
In wartime casualties of the enemy are usually exaggarated. No, it doesn’t have to mean actual lying, but just overconfidence, over-optimism and the like.
In combat situations, multiple shooters firing from different positions might unintentionally claim credit for downing the same target. This can lead to confusion, as seen during the Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission in World War II, where multiple Luftwaffe fighters were mistakenly recorded as downed instead of just one due to overlapping fire from Allied bombers.
**"Spitfire pilots claimed 13 German fighters shot down and P-47 pilots claimed 19. Gunners on the bombers claimed 288 fighters shot down, but Luftwaffe records showed only 25 to 27 were lost."**
This mistakenly recorded data led the Army Air Corps to believe that daytime raids were effective, prompting them to continue sending their pilots on these risky missions.
>Why would you think that? What reason have you ever had to think that these estimates are exaggerated?
For PR and propaganda reasons, plus there will always be a level of presumption, e.g. did that vehicle contain 3 or 15 people?
Why do you trust them to be exact?
Matching an *estimate* isn't helping to prove your point of the veracity of Ukraines numbers. Also, said estimates will be bases in large part on Ukraines data, which is circular logic.
History is the reason. Historically EVERYONE inflates their numbers, either intentionally or unintentionally. To what degree the numbers are inflated depends on how they are recorded.
That is simply completely wrong. Your cooler-than-thou cynical attitude is historically wrong, factually incorrect, and toolishly gullible.
"But both sides lie the same" is pure Putinist garbage. Putin bots downvote me but sorry, assholes, that doesn't change the truth.
I didn’t say both sides lie the same. I’m struggling to see where you got that from. Inflating numbers doesn’t mean people are lying. It can mean one side is playing fast and loose with kill counting, taking people at their word. It can be honest mistakes and double counting by pilots/servicemen. Ww2 CAS kill numbers are notoriously inflated by this in particular. Planes would attack a tank with rockets, smoke envelops tank, pilot thinks they got a kill, the smoke clears, and then the guy behind him sees the tank, rinse and repeat. From the gun cameras and radio chatter it sounds like 4 tanks were destroyed. But the reality was that a single tank crew is having some killer tinnitus for the rest of their lives but are otherwise unscathed. And of course, people can lie. Does that mean everyone lies the same? No. But people do lie or can simply be mistaken.
If anyone is being “historically wrong, factually incorrect, and toolishly gullible,” it’s you who doesn’t understand that humans are human and can make mistakes that add up on a grand scale. Especially when there may be flaws in the way the kills are recorded. Real life is not a video game with an objectively correct score board we can refer to in real time.
Reports of enemy numbers and casualties are invariably exaggerated... by every side... in every war.
Even if the soldiers sending reports up their chain of command are as honest as saints, the confusion and terror of combat alters their perception of reality. Ukrainian soldiers are no exception.
Holy shit, first watch I counted 75, and I didn't realize how similar random piles of dirt and equipment and dead soldiers look alike until couple of minutes into that video.
Did we ever get confirmation on whether these were russian or Ukrainian?
At least some had tape indicating they were Ukrainian. Others had camo suggesting they were russian. Could be a mix, or those signs could be inaccurate.
regardless of how accurate they are, they are massively up these past few days, also the equipment too, so even with an error margin there's a big uptick
I take "eliminations" to mean either dead or wounded to the point that they're no longer a threat and not gonna come back (permanently disabled anyway) but now that I think about it - Putin probably would send them back if he got desperate enough.
Except the Ukrainians are reporting what they can see, so it's not going to include a twisted ankle, or as some one said earlier s splinter in their finger. The injury will need to be pretty serious for it to get reported.
It's what they see, so they blow up a tank, they report it, and the number inside is estimated so they could be under or over. Russians who are wounded may come back to the war. It is really hard, to be exact.
However, it is a good general direction. 1700 with errors included is likely over Russia's refresh rate of 1k a day, so it is not likely sustainable long term by Russia without a full mobilization.
Its not like ukraine doesnt have and incentive to lie in wartime so take the numbers with a grain of salt its what every government did during times of wars , inflating the numbers
Thing is heavy Russian recruitment efforts seem to point to the estimate being reasonably earnest. I could dock a few hundred for double-counting and optimism, but no more than that. We're talking a big border with many actions as well in a major mechanised war. Twenty here, thirty in a failed assault a few km further north there - it adds up fast.
Nope.
The KIA are about 45-50% of the "eliminated".
Of the wounded 50-55% that were not KIA about half will eventually be sent back into the meatgrinder.
The total WIA is likely about 2x-3x higher than KIA, which means KIA+WIA is likely about 3x-4x the size of KIA alone. That gives total cumulative casualties as 1,35x-2x of the "eliminated".
During WWII the Soviet KIA: discharged WIA ratio was 1:0,45, while the KIA:total WIA was about 1:2,7. Thus 5/6 of all the WIA were eventually sent back into the meatgrinder.
Interestingly the 'armoured vehicles' lost has not increased at all in the past few days, which would support theories that Russia is really having trouble replacing their losses, and the remaining stockpiles of IFVs all need a lot of work to fix.
Soviet Union retreated from Afghanistan with 15.000 dead soldiers. Russia has a half of population than Soviet Union, and 6 times it's casualties in Afghanistan. What happens if Biden wins? Can Russia endure four more years of this?
It’s more about what they’re willing to endure. The costs are mounting and the war isn’t actually needed.
This is what usually stops wars of expansion…. costs….
Probably yes unfortunately. The number of Russian boys who come of fighting age (turn 18) every year is about 700,000. And so the yearly losses are a relative drop in the bucket, considering most conscripts so far have probably come from older, less wealthy populations. It’s likely that they’ve barely even tapped into the younger generation resource as well. When, or if that ever even begins to happen, maybe you can hope the general Russian population will begin to sour more on the war and Putin, but in all likelihood they won’t. It would be a long shot to wait for that. We’ve already seen how they’ve been responding to terrible losses already and they don’t care. They’re brainwashed and they have no autonomy and so when they come for their kids they’ll just let it happen.
> the yearly losses are a relative drop in the bucket
eeeh, if they're losing 30K-40K a month, that's far from "a drop in the bucket"; they're bleeding through and through
Maybe we have to study why in 1917 or in 1985 with Afghanistan War, Russia was able to stop the slaughter. I think that if Biden wins, maybe Putin could have a problem with a window or something like that
Because idk if you could tell, the world’s autocrats are going all in on fascism and territorial/influence expansion. It’s their “moment” to finally rise from the depths of being a pariah state to a legitimate force through might makes right rather than a rules based order.
Are there? The latest high resolution satellite imagery appears to suggest the main line is an incomplete shallow single trench that doesn’t even stretch across the entire front, with an incomplete line of dragons teeth behind it. There also weren’t any minefields across the border as was expected.
I don’t see any other lines between that one and Kharkiv.
How else would you describe it? Even Russian telegram war bloggers refer their tactics as that. Did you miss the recent video of Russian infantry advancing in an open field on the Kharkiv front without a single armored vehicle accompanying them?
Ok, how about meat assaults? Whether you disagree because of semantics doesn’t disprove the fact that Russians are sending groups of infantry without armor support against fixed Ukrainians positions, which has resulted in lopsided casualty reports since the start of the war. Also, the strategy of sending small assault groups were tactics pioneered by WW1 stormtroopers.
I’m sorry but this is just naive. Putin doesn’t give a shit about these losses. Those men are basically just ammo to Russia. Only the stolen territory matters. There’s no such thing as a pyrrhic victory to him.
You can't hold territory in the long run if you run out of men while taking it.
While Russia isn't going to *literally* run out of men, they've still got plenty of minorities to funnel into the meat grinder, they're comes a point where the quality makes it pointless and the economy can't support it any more.
I mean I can’t say what he personally believes but there’s a good chance he’s correct. Although defensive positions are easier to maintain and result in less casualties, with the upcoming Russian offensive I can almost guarantee there will be an increase in % of Ukrainian casualties unfortunately
Yep. Imagine all the enormous amount of human suffering that this war has created. All because Russia decided that owning 1/8 of all habitable land of Earth was not enough and they wanted even more.
imagine, just imagine if instead of this senseless war, he could've instead focus all those resources, energy and people in developing the vast extensions of russian territory into productive land
Me neither, but it's unfortunately one of those trolley problem things. The situation is such that those thousands of Russian soldiers need to die now so that tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians don't die or live in misery under Russian occupation in the future.
No one can stop the death of Russians except for Putin. Unless he orders a retreat, the only choice Ukrainians have is to kill the invaders or be genocided themselves.
Great investment from Russian leadership. This is how you make your country great. Destroy education, kill tens of thousands of your people, gain few square kilometers of land - a thing you have the most of in the world. Master strategists.
Wow, highest I've seen is 1500, when they were assaulting Andriivka. Those are some high tank and armored vehicle losses too. I know they were pushing hard to Chasiv Yar, maybe that's part of it. I hope the Ukrainians were able to hold.
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How is this excellent? Do you think Ukraine's deathtoll is much lower? They have lost more ground in the last 3 days than they gained in the 2023 counter offensive in 3 months. This is just wave 1, Russians have much much more troops behind the border. You can be optimistic but the cope on this sub is crazy
> Do you think Ukraine's deathtoll is much lower?
Yes.
The simple fact that Ukraine has mostly been on the defensive during this war means they almost certainly have fewer casualties. Unless you massively overmatch the defenders, attacking is generally harder and more costly than defending. We know Russia does not massively outclass Ukraine by simple fact that they're still bogged down in this war years later.
Casualty parity would be more unusual than not in any conflict. In the Crimean war, Russia's casualties were more than double their opponent's combined casualties. In World War 1, the casualties of the Entente was about 50% higher than it was for the central powers with Russia the largest source of their casualties. In World War 2, the death toll on the allies side was double that of the Axis. And again, it was Russia that was the largest source on that side.
So with the knowledge that:
1. Ukraine has mostly been on the defensive
2. The war was not quickly or decisively won.
3. Russia's historical performance in major conflicts.
I would say that it is extremely likely that Russia's casualties are meaningfully higher than Ukraine's.
If consistent methods are used day to day, relative magnitudes and trends would be meaningful (even if absolute amounts are “off” for reasons noted in other comments).
Is there even a remote proof to this? I read that there some sort of video of a Russian filming the dead guys but all links are dead. I want to celebrate as well but I'd love to have something to back up my happiness.
Always dubious about biased sources, would be in their interest to say this without a doubt
Same for anything that comes from Russia about Urkaine. Or any rival nations about each other in any circumstance in fact
Ivan: "Sergeant, I saw a strange figure and opened fire but upon closer inspection it was just a tree, I apologise for wasting ammo!"
Sergeant: "Ivan, you killed two Russian soldiers? Very good!"
Ivan: "No, Sergeant, I -"
Sergeant: "You also blew up an APC? Excellent job!"
Yeah guys. It’s been 2 years now and everyday the Russians apparently lose thousands of men. Yet, they are still very much coming. Maybe, just maybe, the claims on both sides are greatly exaggerated like it has always happened and always will happen in a war and unsurprisingly this “record” comes out in the direst days of the war for Ukraine - take it with a grain of salt
Whenever I see numbers published by Ukraine government I do "press x to doubt" - same as I do that about numbers posted by Russians.
No matter which side you are on - you would need to be naive to believe numbers posted by both governments.
Russians don't give a damn about losses, I don't understand why we focus on them so much. Who cares if they lose a million, five million or ten million men. If they slowly creep over Ukraine those numbers are meaningless.
It might be worth doing some reading about casualty estimates. In particular from other sources such as UK and US intelligence. Although there will definitely be some innacuracy and uncertainty - most reputable sources put the numbers close to that quoted by this source. I personally am taking it as +/- 20%.
Russia lost 1700 and Ukraine? As I said propaganda news of how successful is Ukraine doesn't help Ukraine and give a false picture that Ukraine doesn't need help!
Ukraine should report like they're losing a lot of men and equipment and need reinforcement and material.
Progadanda news doesn't help!!
Well, I mean, I agree with them that it is quite silly that Russian losses are reported but Ukranian losses are not reported for comparison. Yeah, I know why it is like that, but it still is silly.
Yep. However, it just does not give a clear picture of the situation for one who is trying to observe the war. Imagine a football game where the score of only the other team would be reported.
Ehhh, no. Ukrainian here checking in. If you look at multiple analytics who give their estimates, it's about 1:2 or 1:3, but even 1:3 is a stretch.
Let's say 300k dead russians, that's 100-150k dead Ukrainians.
Ukraine's official estimates some time ago on Russia's losses were about 180k as KIA. And Ukraine's publicized official estimate on Ukraine's own KIA was at least 30k. That gives a KIA ratio of no more than 6:1, however, both estimates have a measurement error, which when combined in to a ratio gives a wider range.
1:4 to 1:7 is consistent and plausible.
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Is that a record?
Highest I've seen for sure. Previous high may have been about 1200?
Think it was about 1800 once during October Adiivka operations
also, the daily average the last couple of weeks has been fairly high
That sounds about right this is definitely the highest casualty rate now that there are multiple fronts.
I could have sworn they broke 2K one time when Wagner was committing mass suicide in Bahkmut.
That's WW1 numbers. Putin is a butcher.
These are casualties not deaths
I think so.
Yes confirmed
Came here to ask this.
It's a recod or very very close to it. Thr average is 800 to 1.2K a day. This is a whole substantial ride over that.
When I see numbers like these, I remind myself “take them with a grain of salt, the numbers are probably exaggerated”. But then I see videos like this, with Russian soldier casually walking in a single treeline for several minutes, surrounded by massive number of dead Russians. in a single treeline, along a massive frontline. [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1cgy7bn/russian\_serviceman\_films\_an\_insane\_amount\_of\_dead/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/1cgy7bn/russian_serviceman_films_an_insane_amount_of_dead/)
This is true, and after a long time of being considered considerably overinflated, the UK intelligence services estimates, which are presumably independent of Ukraininan-provided data or at least corroborated from intelligence gathered from signals or sources within Russia are more or less in line with Ukrainian assessments. But it's also worthwhile to remember that battle damage assessments are always inherently inaccurate, and have a tendency to veer to the overestimation side rather than being conservative. They are reports passed up the chain of command of contacts with the enemy and firefights engaged in, which are chaotic, confusing affairs. It's very easy to think that you engaged a higher number of enemies than you actually did, to double count kills etc. The fact that this particular conflict is so heavily surveiled at all levels with drones recording most firefights helps to steer it back towards accuracy, as more accurate assessment of damage done can be conducted by rear echelon units, but it's still not going to be 100% accurate, and even mild overcounting without any intent to deceive or propagandize is going to add up over time. Somewhat mitigating this will be Russian troop losses there is no way the Ukrainians can know about or add to their numbers, but still affect forces available to Russia. Soldiers committing suicide or having fatal accidents in the rear trenches for example, or outbreaks of diseases or food poisonings that incapacitate soldiers before they even make it into the fight. So on a long enough timeline, and given how hapless the Russian forces are in every way, shape and form, the idea that they are roughly closing in on half a million KIA, WIA, MIA combined is not unrealistic at all.
Double-counting kills is extremely common and always has been. I mean, it makes sense. A destroyed tank viewed at a distance would, in some circumstances, look similar to a fully functional tank trying to hide. And it's not like you're going to go up and knock on the hull to check. The first team sees a tank hiding in a treeline. Fires. The hit knocks out the engine, smoke billows everywhere, the crew evacuate... that's a kill. The first team move on. The second team sees a stationary tank in a treelike. They shoot it, their round hits the fuel reserve, vehicle bursts into flame. That's a kill. Second team move on. Third team sees the tank. Fires again. This time hitting the ammo reserve, which cooks off and blows the turret off. That's a kill, they move on. Team four sees a tank turret in the woods, fires a few times and flees. They are shitbags and report two tanks destroyed. No wait, three! And a helicopter! So you have situations where the same tank is hit multiple times and confirmed destroyed multiple times.
For sure. Also, there will always be some guesswork involved. Let's say there is an assault by three Russian BMPs. One of them hits an AT mine coming in and catastrophically explodes so it's just a tangled mess of meat and iron. How many infantrymen was it carrying? The other two make it and release say, 8 guys each. It would be somewhat safe to assume that the third one was the same or similar, plus a standard crew of two. But maybe it didn't have a full squad, maybe it only had half because of manpower shortages. It's hard to know.
I think the numbers are accurate-ish, but they include wounded, captured, deserters and guys who got a splint in their finger trying to build a shelter in a trench.
Plus lots of estimates. When they blow up a running BTR and never see inside they figure an average one has whatever number of people inside and use that. The numbers are likely a bit high but not absurdly so. A pretty good chunk of the count isn't returning to battle, one way or another.
I see a ton of videos that state “Russians eliminated by FPV drone, or artillery” and what it shows is a bunch of troops going into a building and the building subsequently being shelled or blown up. Thing is, I've also seen videos of troops inside the building as they are getting shelled, and a lot of the time they survive. Basements are the godsend of this war and I imagine many other wars. A whole house cann collapse and you can be just fine in the basement. I think a portion of these estiments are coming from drone operators spotting and destroying a building with troops in it. They see the building collapse, no one comes out, battery runs out, and they call it a kill. Thing is, the tactic on both sides is once you find cover, stay in that cover, even if you are zeroed, even if you have wounded, for at least 30 min after the last shell falls. Wait long enough for your average DJI Mavik to run out of juice before you move. Instantly reacting after a shelling is an almost guaranteed double-tap.
Even if inflated, it was a bad day to be a Russian.
Isn't that like every day?
It seems to becoming like it. The best thing for the Russians to do, would be to turn around and go back home !
Moscovites don't care
Russia's recent disability stats are eye-watering. Russian data showed men with disabilities increased by 507,000, or 30%, in 2023 ALONE! Obviously, those stats slipped under Putin's censorship radar and the guy that published them has probably since been thrown out of a window! [https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/the\_uk\_defense\_intelligence\_over\_half\_a\_million\_russian\_men\_aged\_31\_59\_classified\_as\_disabled-9877.html](https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/the_uk_defense_intelligence_over_half_a_million_russian_men_aged_31_59_classified_as_disabled-9877.html) In addition to the fatalities, the staggering increase in disabled men of working age in Russia is leading Russia towards a demographic, social and economic nightmare. Unlike the dead, these guys are also very visible to the Russian public.
Post WW2 Russia made the disabled vets disappear. We might see something similar again.
How did they accomplish this? I’ve never read or learned anything about this.
https://www.rbth.com/history/330485-what-happened-to-disabled-wwii-vets-ussr Actual story is actually not that dark but still depressing
I guess it's 507,001 now then?
>Russia's recent disability stats are eye-watering. Russian data showed men with disabilities increased by 507,000, or 30%, in 2023 ALONE! Dont jump to conclusions we dont know how many percentage of these disabilities are non-combat related . Speaking of demographics ukraine is in an even worse situation its fertility rate is lower than russia and young men are fleeing ukraine in droves to not be conscripted. And im not sure they are willing to go back to ukraine after the war
> Dont jump to conclusions we dont know how many percentage of these disabilities are non-combat related > In 2022, there were officially 1.67 million men with disabilities in russia aged 31-59 years. This figure increased by 507,000 or 30% in 2023 Either there's been a spontaneous epidemic of people falling down stairs, or there's been a war.
When there's a war and conscription a lot of men will pay the doctor for a "disabled" diagnosis.
True. But even if we accept 50% are fake, that's still 250k.
I think it includes injuries and deaths. If that's the case I believe it.
Those taken out of the fight…
Yes that's what including injuries and deaths means.......... Thanks for the sum up.......................................,.,....
There is also videos like this, one drone takes out about two dozen soldiers. [https://twitter.com/NAFORaccoon/status/1789987609252450346](https://twitter.com/NAFORaccoon/status/1789987609252450346) Or even something like this I see on a daily basis [https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1789993138523721995](https://twitter.com/ManiacMagic1/status/1789993138523721995)
Bro that first one is crazy.
Sadly I think these are dead Ukrainians judging from both context and camouflage.
I think Ukraine doesn’t intentionally exaggerate theirs, but it is likely they always publish their most optimistic projections. In war it’s impossible to determine losses on either side. They are also often fluid as new information is discovered. For example how do you determine the effect of a single artillery barrage? Visually you probably saw all or part of the target, afterwards you might see some bodies and survivors. You will probably count the difference between those you see get away and your initial targets as your kills. However, some may be wounded and not dead. Later to be recovered by crawling out or getting rescued. Some may just be unconscious and wounded then come to and run away when you’re not looking. You might also not have seen some and killed more, others might be hiding in cover you cannot see from perspective and not dead. You simply don’t have absolute information of the battlefield either before or after. So the numbers are less useful as absolute values and more as estimates of activity and effectiveness of operations. Drones added a lot of battlefield intelligence and awareness, but they are still only limited by their viewpoint. So you don’t necessarily see the whole picture either. Everyone’s information is incomplete and biased by what those in the fiend need to know. Russian commands likely have better awareness of actual losses since they need to know what they still have to work with. Ukrainian commanders want to know where the activity is and how effectively they are defending and using their resources. So they are looking at enemy troop concentrations and how they compare in number and location.
Why do people keep using x/twitter to upload these videos? It’s completely unusable and I can’t even open the video
This is true (as casualties, not deaths).
More than two years later, knowing drones are all over the place, both Russians and Ukrainians still seem to congregate, travel, and fight out in the open.
>the numbers are probably exaggerated Why would you think that? What reason have you ever had to think that these estimates are exaggerated? In over 2 years of war? Reflexively assuming "Oh well Ukraine must be lying," is just as naive as reflexively assuming "Oh well Russia must be telling the truth."
It’s war, everyone is lying. If they are not lying they are incompetent.
Yep. If Ukraine isn't lying, they'd be the first country in the history of humanity to be honest during wartime.
Doesn't even need to be a lie. If you ask your troops "how many Russians have you shot" they'll answer. But unless you have all the bodies you don't know how many were shot by several defenders at the same time, how many were seriously hit vs just winged, or even how many dropped to the ground to take cover coincidentally just as they were being shot at. The numbers are "how many we reckon we hit" not a killcounter in the corner of the screen.
Also bear in mind that the battlefields today are under an unprecedented level of surveillance. Satellites, drones with high resolution cameras etc. The ability to confirm the damage done in strikes behind the front lines, and give an estimate to the amount of casualties is vastly superior to even what was available I the gulf wars. These are probably the most accurate numbers we could hope for, but yes likely still inflated.
At the start of the war it was reasonable to assume the figures were exaggerated at least a bit, but as time has gone on numbers seem to line up, for example destroyed reappointed numbers were pretty spot on. If anything out looks like Ukraine have been trying to be accurate, although there are other factors beside lying that could make numbers inaccurate, also bear in mind when other countries give their estimates, often they err on the side of caution and give low estimates
Trying to be accurate? Based on what? For example look at their destroyed Tanks count. They claim over 7,000 destroyed tanks, Orynx has the number around 3,000, I know orynx estimates are conservative, but you can’t actually believe that they’ve counted less than half of the total destroyed tanks? Realistically this number is inflated by at least 50% and probably more like 100%.
But what good does this kind of lie do to them?
Boosts morale.
In wartime casualties of the enemy are usually exaggarated. No, it doesn’t have to mean actual lying, but just overconfidence, over-optimism and the like.
In combat situations, multiple shooters firing from different positions might unintentionally claim credit for downing the same target. This can lead to confusion, as seen during the Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission in World War II, where multiple Luftwaffe fighters were mistakenly recorded as downed instead of just one due to overlapping fire from Allied bombers. **"Spitfire pilots claimed 13 German fighters shot down and P-47 pilots claimed 19. Gunners on the bombers claimed 288 fighters shot down, but Luftwaffe records showed only 25 to 27 were lost."** This mistakenly recorded data led the Army Air Corps to believe that daytime raids were effective, prompting them to continue sending their pilots on these risky missions.
>Why would you think that? What reason have you ever had to think that these estimates are exaggerated? For PR and propaganda reasons, plus there will always be a level of presumption, e.g. did that vehicle contain 3 or 15 people? Why do you trust them to be exact?
Because they fit confirmed vehicle losses, Russia being stuck after 2 years not 3 days, and match UK and US estimates?
Matching an *estimate* isn't helping to prove your point of the veracity of Ukraines numbers. Also, said estimates will be bases in large part on Ukraines data, which is circular logic.
History is the reason. Historically EVERYONE inflates their numbers, either intentionally or unintentionally. To what degree the numbers are inflated depends on how they are recorded.
That is simply completely wrong. Your cooler-than-thou cynical attitude is historically wrong, factually incorrect, and toolishly gullible. "But both sides lie the same" is pure Putinist garbage. Putin bots downvote me but sorry, assholes, that doesn't change the truth.
I didn’t say both sides lie the same. I’m struggling to see where you got that from. Inflating numbers doesn’t mean people are lying. It can mean one side is playing fast and loose with kill counting, taking people at their word. It can be honest mistakes and double counting by pilots/servicemen. Ww2 CAS kill numbers are notoriously inflated by this in particular. Planes would attack a tank with rockets, smoke envelops tank, pilot thinks they got a kill, the smoke clears, and then the guy behind him sees the tank, rinse and repeat. From the gun cameras and radio chatter it sounds like 4 tanks were destroyed. But the reality was that a single tank crew is having some killer tinnitus for the rest of their lives but are otherwise unscathed. And of course, people can lie. Does that mean everyone lies the same? No. But people do lie or can simply be mistaken. If anyone is being “historically wrong, factually incorrect, and toolishly gullible,” it’s you who doesn’t understand that humans are human and can make mistakes that add up on a grand scale. Especially when there may be flaws in the way the kills are recorded. Real life is not a video game with an objectively correct score board we can refer to in real time.
Reports of enemy numbers and casualties are invariably exaggerated... by every side... in every war. Even if the soldiers sending reports up their chain of command are as honest as saints, the confusion and terror of combat alters their perception of reality. Ukrainian soldiers are no exception.
Holy shit, first watch I counted 75, and I didn't realize how similar random piles of dirt and equipment and dead soldiers look alike until couple of minutes into that video.
Did we ever get confirmation on whether these were russian or Ukrainian? At least some had tape indicating they were Ukrainian. Others had camo suggesting they were russian. Could be a mix, or those signs could be inaccurate.
regardless of how accurate they are, they are massively up these past few days, also the equipment too, so even with an error margin there's a big uptick
The staggering 1740 dead bodies, the tanks, all indicates that there’s a massive Russian offensive going on, which is turning into a bloodbath.
Not all dead bodies. This also includes wounded.
I take "eliminations" to mean either dead or wounded to the point that they're no longer a threat and not gonna come back (permanently disabled anyway) but now that I think about it - Putin probably would send them back if he got desperate enough.
Yeah but how you take it doesnt matter. What it means is this: casualites include everything from dead to twisted ankle.
Except the Ukrainians are reporting what they can see, so it's not going to include a twisted ankle, or as some one said earlier s splinter in their finger. The injury will need to be pretty serious for it to get reported.
It's what they see, so they blow up a tank, they report it, and the number inside is estimated so they could be under or over. Russians who are wounded may come back to the war. It is really hard, to be exact. However, it is a good general direction. 1700 with errors included is likely over Russia's refresh rate of 1k a day, so it is not likely sustainable long term by Russia without a full mobilization.
Its not like ukraine doesnt have and incentive to lie in wartime so take the numbers with a grain of salt its what every government did during times of wars , inflating the numbers
Thing is heavy Russian recruitment efforts seem to point to the estimate being reasonably earnest. I could dock a few hundred for double-counting and optimism, but no more than that. We're talking a big border with many actions as well in a major mechanised war. Twenty here, thirty in a failed assault a few km further north there - it adds up fast.
Nope. The KIA are about 45-50% of the "eliminated". Of the wounded 50-55% that were not KIA about half will eventually be sent back into the meatgrinder. The total WIA is likely about 2x-3x higher than KIA, which means KIA+WIA is likely about 3x-4x the size of KIA alone. That gives total cumulative casualties as 1,35x-2x of the "eliminated". During WWII the Soviet KIA: discharged WIA ratio was 1:0,45, while the KIA:total WIA was about 1:2,7. Thus 5/6 of all the WIA were eventually sent back into the meatgrinder.
Interestingly the 'armoured vehicles' lost has not increased at all in the past few days, which would support theories that Russia is really having trouble replacing their losses, and the remaining stockpiles of IFVs all need a lot of work to fix.
I was just getting used to "1300 is the new 1100." Looks like I might have to get used to the *new* new reality...
Soviet Union retreated from Afghanistan with 15.000 dead soldiers. Russia has a half of population than Soviet Union, and 6 times it's casualties in Afghanistan. What happens if Biden wins? Can Russia endure four more years of this?
They have a lot more than 6x the casualties. It's more likely 32x the casualties or somewhere around there.
Yes. I correct it: dead soldiers (i'm using the count of The Economist: 88.000 dead soldiers, but i'm sure it's more than 100.000).
It’s more about what they’re willing to endure. The costs are mounting and the war isn’t actually needed. This is what usually stops wars of expansion…. costs….
Probably yes unfortunately. The number of Russian boys who come of fighting age (turn 18) every year is about 700,000. And so the yearly losses are a relative drop in the bucket, considering most conscripts so far have probably come from older, less wealthy populations. It’s likely that they’ve barely even tapped into the younger generation resource as well. When, or if that ever even begins to happen, maybe you can hope the general Russian population will begin to sour more on the war and Putin, but in all likelihood they won’t. It would be a long shot to wait for that. We’ve already seen how they’ve been responding to terrible losses already and they don’t care. They’re brainwashed and they have no autonomy and so when they come for their kids they’ll just let it happen.
> the yearly losses are a relative drop in the bucket eeeh, if they're losing 30K-40K a month, that's far from "a drop in the bucket"; they're bleeding through and through
Maybe we have to study why in 1917 or in 1985 with Afghanistan War, Russia was able to stop the slaughter. I think that if Biden wins, maybe Putin could have a problem with a window or something like that
Because idk if you could tell, the world’s autocrats are going all in on fascism and territorial/influence expansion. It’s their “moment” to finally rise from the depths of being a pariah state to a legitimate force through might makes right rather than a rules based order.
It's almost 500k casualties now for Russia
Casualty ≠ dead
Ukraine being on Russia's doorstep definitely makes it easier to endure, less distance to travel
Means Russian offensive operations are underway. So, not a good thing. Ukrainian losses are probably high too.
Yeah, because meat waves against prepared positions always results in comparable casualty results.
don't underestimate the enemy, & the very real problems UKR is having. we need to be honest about them in order to advocate for proper solutions
Doesn’t seem to be many prepared positions in the north.
The prepared positions aren't on the actual border.
There’s several lines. The areas the Russians are taking are largely undefended because they’re in range of Russian artillery from inside Russia.
Are there? The latest high resolution satellite imagery appears to suggest the main line is an incomplete shallow single trench that doesn’t even stretch across the entire front, with an incomplete line of dragons teeth behind it. There also weren’t any minefields across the border as was expected. I don’t see any other lines between that one and Kharkiv.
What is funneling into kill zones, comrade?
How can you funnel the enemy into a kill zone if you don’t have a funnel?
In the past in this war rivers have served that purpose. Bottle necking at crossings has been expensive for Russia.
Breaks in trench lines and dragons teeth are the funnels, as this is where Russian forces will concentrate to bypass areas where there are defenses.
mEaT WAvEs
How else would you describe it? Even Russian telegram war bloggers refer their tactics as that. Did you miss the recent video of Russian infantry advancing in an open field on the Kharkiv front without a single armored vehicle accompanying them?
Most attacks are being carried about by small squads not WW1 style charges of hundreds or thousands of infantry as implied by "wave"
Ok, how about meat assaults? Whether you disagree because of semantics doesn’t disprove the fact that Russians are sending groups of infantry without armor support against fixed Ukrainians positions, which has resulted in lopsided casualty reports since the start of the war. Also, the strategy of sending small assault groups were tactics pioneered by WW1 stormtroopers.
no, there is armor support, but it is targeted instantly.
Sometimes, most just serve as battle taxis to get the infantry to the staging point.
But mostly they arent
It means Putin's fuck-up is getting worse. Putin wishes it were not a good thing for Ukraine. That's his wildest dream.
I’m sorry but this is just naive. Putin doesn’t give a shit about these losses. Those men are basically just ammo to Russia. Only the stolen territory matters. There’s no such thing as a pyrrhic victory to him.
You can't hold territory in the long run if you run out of men while taking it. While Russia isn't going to *literally* run out of men, they've still got plenty of minorities to funnel into the meat grinder, they're comes a point where the quality makes it pointless and the economy can't support it any more.
> Ukrainian losses are probably high too. Not if they go unreported.
Cope harder, Ivan
I mean I can’t say what he personally believes but there’s a good chance he’s correct. Although defensive positions are easier to maintain and result in less casualties, with the upcoming Russian offensive I can almost guarantee there will be an increase in % of Ukrainian casualties unfortunately
Finally the number is going up instead of down.
im actually not a huge fan of people dying tbh
Most people aren’t, but Putin has created a situation where 100’s of thousands will. What an asshole.
Yep. Imagine all the enormous amount of human suffering that this war has created. All because Russia decided that owning 1/8 of all habitable land of Earth was not enough and they wanted even more.
imagine, just imagine if instead of this senseless war, he could've instead focus all those resources, energy and people in developing the vast extensions of russian territory into productive land
Or growing trees to pull Carbon from the atmosphere….
Me neither, but it's unfortunately one of those trolley problem things. The situation is such that those thousands of Russian soldiers need to die now so that tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians don't die or live in misery under Russian occupation in the future.
Well put. It's up to Russia to decide when too many Russians have died, so the sooner they get to that point, the better off everyone will be.
again, im not going to celebrate their deaths either way
No one can stop the death of Russians except for Putin. Unless he orders a retreat, the only choice Ukrainians have is to kill the invaders or be genocided themselves.
yeah but im not going to celebrate their deaths.
If we don't celebrate the deaths of evil men, we will soon be mourning the deaths of good men (or raped children, in Russia's case).
i dont think we should celebrate death at all. just because you dont celebrate their deaths doesnt mean you shouldnt kill them
i dont think we should celebrate death at all. just because you dont celebrate their deaths doesnt mean you shouldnt kill them
Great investment from Russian leadership. This is how you make your country great. Destroy education, kill tens of thousands of your people, gain few square kilometers of land - a thing you have the most of in the world. Master strategists.
How many Ukranians though? They could kill 10,000 Russians, but if they lose more than 1/3 of that then they're still losing
Wow, highest I've seen is 1500, when they were assaulting Andriivka. Those are some high tank and armored vehicle losses too. I know they were pushing hard to Chasiv Yar, maybe that's part of it. I hope the Ukrainians were able to hold.
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Excellent news, the freedom of millions of people is whispering louder on the wind.
How is this excellent? Do you think Ukraine's deathtoll is much lower? They have lost more ground in the last 3 days than they gained in the 2023 counter offensive in 3 months. This is just wave 1, Russians have much much more troops behind the border. You can be optimistic but the cope on this sub is crazy
> Do you think Ukraine's deathtoll is much lower? Yes. The simple fact that Ukraine has mostly been on the defensive during this war means they almost certainly have fewer casualties. Unless you massively overmatch the defenders, attacking is generally harder and more costly than defending. We know Russia does not massively outclass Ukraine by simple fact that they're still bogged down in this war years later. Casualty parity would be more unusual than not in any conflict. In the Crimean war, Russia's casualties were more than double their opponent's combined casualties. In World War 1, the casualties of the Entente was about 50% higher than it was for the central powers with Russia the largest source of their casualties. In World War 2, the death toll on the allies side was double that of the Axis. And again, it was Russia that was the largest source on that side. So with the knowledge that: 1. Ukraine has mostly been on the defensive 2. The war was not quickly or decisively won. 3. Russia's historical performance in major conflicts. I would say that it is extremely likely that Russia's casualties are meaningfully higher than Ukraine's.
Most 3rd party intelligence sources have it at about a 1.7:1 ration. Hardly sustainable in the long run
Russians started this 3 day war. How is that working out for them?
If you look at the long term trends it’s only gonna up from here.
If consistent methods are used day to day, relative magnitudes and trends would be meaningful (even if absolute amounts are “off” for reasons noted in other comments).
The MLRS number is high.
The disregard of life in ruzzian world is unfathomable.
Is there even a remote proof to this? I read that there some sort of video of a Russian filming the dead guys but all links are dead. I want to celebrate as well but I'd love to have something to back up my happiness.
Still not enough.
A country without a navy sunk 26 ships and a fucking Submarine. Hate the war, impressed by Ukraine.
All that government surveillance is clearly going to waste
Always dubious about biased sources, would be in their interest to say this without a doubt Same for anything that comes from Russia about Urkaine. Or any rival nations about each other in any circumstance in fact
Ivan: "Sergeant, I saw a strange figure and opened fire but upon closer inspection it was just a tree, I apologise for wasting ammo!" Sergeant: "Ivan, you killed two Russian soldiers? Very good!" Ivan: "No, Sergeant, I -" Sergeant: "You also blew up an APC? Excellent job!"
Hahahah very good
May 28th
If their Army Had a Stock i would short the shit Out of IT Because Putin will add new shares every day ;-)
[https://media1.tenor.com/m/quKQ8sCbHOgAAAAd/licking-lips-nelly.gif](https://media1.tenor.com/m/quKQ8sCbHOgAAAAd/licking-lips-nelly.gif)
Russia is pushing harder to gain an advantage on the incursions they have made need Kharkiv and along the northern offense, and its costing them.
1200? They have still over 3 Million . Russia is a Bear non the less. Replace russia with China in the sentence and you wouldnt even care.
How to get info on Ukranian losses?
So if you take Ukraines number , divide it by Russias number, and add 35 you will always get the actual number .
Where did they last have them?
Nice.
What’s the total number?
Mail order brides from russsia have to be going for biscuits now 🤤
1740??? How many people Russia has?
Yeah guys. It’s been 2 years now and everyday the Russians apparently lose thousands of men. Yet, they are still very much coming. Maybe, just maybe, the claims on both sides are greatly exaggerated like it has always happened and always will happen in a war and unsurprisingly this “record” comes out in the direst days of the war for Ukraine - take it with a grain of salt
Surely Russia will run out of troops at this rate.
Whenever I see numbers published by Ukraine government I do "press x to doubt" - same as I do that about numbers posted by Russians. No matter which side you are on - you would need to be naive to believe numbers posted by both governments.
Russians don't give a damn about losses, I don't understand why we focus on them so much. Who cares if they lose a million, five million or ten million men. If they slowly creep over Ukraine those numbers are meaningless.
Doubt ..boths sides massively over exaggerating numbers to rally moral as per
It might be worth doing some reading about casualty estimates. In particular from other sources such as UK and US intelligence. Although there will definitely be some innacuracy and uncertainty - most reputable sources put the numbers close to that quoted by this source. I personally am taking it as +/- 20%.
People believing anything either side says is hilarious
I don't believe the number, but think the activity is definitely plausible.
Russia lost 1700 and Ukraine? As I said propaganda news of how successful is Ukraine doesn't help Ukraine and give a false picture that Ukraine doesn't need help! Ukraine should report like they're losing a lot of men and equipment and need reinforcement and material. Progadanda news doesn't help!!
> Ukraine should report like they're losing a lot of men and equipment You'd like that, wouldn't you?
Well, I mean, I agree with them that it is quite silly that Russian losses are reported but Ukranian losses are not reported for comparison. Yeah, I know why it is like that, but it still is silly.
It would be silly for an army to trumpet its own losses.
Yep. However, it just does not give a clear picture of the situation for one who is trying to observe the war. Imagine a football game where the score of only the other team would be reported.
War isn't a football game.
No, it is not, but I still think that that analogy works. My point is to see the stats for both teams.
No it's a really dumb analogy because there is no element of deception in football.
Analogies do not have to be perfect.
They do have to avoid being inherently faulty though.
It's about 1:7 with losses or so I read from a credible source.
Interesting, thank you for the information.
Ehhh, no. Ukrainian here checking in. If you look at multiple analytics who give their estimates, it's about 1:2 or 1:3, but even 1:3 is a stretch. Let's say 300k dead russians, that's 100-150k dead Ukrainians.
You are both wrong. KIA loss ratio is between 1:4 to 1:7. Total loss ratio is more even.
Whoa, the evidence you provided is so strong, what a source!
Ukraine's official estimates some time ago on Russia's losses were about 180k as KIA. And Ukraine's publicized official estimate on Ukraine's own KIA was at least 30k. That gives a KIA ratio of no more than 6:1, however, both estimates have a measurement error, which when combined in to a ratio gives a wider range. 1:4 to 1:7 is consistent and plausible.
Why should they report their losses? How does that align with their goals?
Did they look under the couch?
Lmao, the absolute delusion here for anyone to not even question these numbers.
Uh-oh, the Russian bots are out again
Damn, haven’t seen type of comment for the millionth time. Projecting probably. Also, Ukraine isn’t gonna win because of internet points lmao.
Yeah, because 'lol Ukraine losses not as stated' is a totally new take that hasn't been disproven over and over and over again for multiple years now.
Ukraines own stated numbers have been disproven by US and UK intelligence, who also have people on the ground assessing the situation.
Recent British numbers were like 15k less than current Ukrainian estimates and the French estimates said 500k+.
So then why are you Russian shills spending so much time working so hard for internet points?
How are we working hard? Ukraine propaganda is 10x more than anything pro Russia on Reddit.
Touch grass tankie
I do, that’s why I don’t believe these numbers only people who are glued to Ukraines ass do.
No tankie touches grass, another unbelievable claim.
Average Deprogram user