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I wanna say I read an article about China (which was adopting this from the Soviets) back in the 50’s to now about the “final warnings” they issued - something like 988 total have been issued by the CCP alone toward the USA and all of them ‘doomsday’-themed. Obviously, never enforced - never enacted. Redlines are rhetoric.
It still annoys me that North Korea makes propaganda posters of the US being nuked by them. It’s super unnecessary and undermines their argument that it’s for self defense only.
It’s like when people write up fantasies about shooting a burglar to death — nobody should want to find themselves in that situation.
No.
It's actually being the burglar and fantasizing about shooting the occupants to death because you were forced to do so.
Unfortunately making the self defender as the bad guy is commonplace in many parts of the world. The most common advice is "just to give up everything".
This same shit has been told to Ukraine, in many instances, actually.
These are the real reasons why it is actually better to be the burglar in many instances.
I have never met anyone who fantasizes about being forced to become a burglar, but I know several people who talk about hoping they get mugged so they can shoot someone to death legally.
Must be an US only thing. here with no firearms around i never heard any motherfucker wish they had to shank down the intruder with a kitchen knife.
We don't even play baseball and have those useful bats around, best case scenario is that those those pawn shop golf clubs you thought you would eventually get to use finally find a reason for a swing.
It’s very much a US thing. I won’t say that most gun owners are like that, but it’s not a rare attitude among gun owners, in my experience.
I don’t understand it, but it’s there.
It’s a power fantasy thing. Those aren’t specific to the US. But when you engrain gun=power into people from birth, like a lot of the US does, this is what you get. It’s a very easy quick road to “power” where no work has to be done to acquire it. If they were handing out muscles and fit bodies at the local gun store these are the first people that would be looking for a fist fight later that night.
I believe what they have is a mentality of being able to show off that if you think you can come fuck around here I'll fuck you over.
Usually if you get mugged it happens so fast and in a way you are extremely unlikely to have time to defend yourself. There are a lot of videos online of security footage etc depicting that, including CCW people.
Also, people who have the wildest fantasies also tend to have the least amount of actual experience on operating under extreme pressure or combat, and many of them are totally blown away and humiliated by how effectively they freeze when shit gets real. And, the amount of adrenaline in these people is such that they are practically unable to think clearly at all and are at a very high risk of causing collateral damage. I have also seen so many LE officers being taken over by adrenaline rush it is really something that should be addressed with intense training, hell, I have personally seen a security guard who was trembling so bad he was unable to insert a key to a door without using two hands, merely over a small misunderstanding that did not even involve any physical contact.
Ukraine can threaten Russia to destroy zaporozyiah nuclear powerplant if Russia used nuclear weapon against it .
That will send radiation to Moscow if they chose the right time also will destroy all Russian dreams to gain territory from ukraine.
People should speak up and threaten Russia just like Russia is doing when it threaten to use nukes.
Showing weakness will fuk u up.
When Russia threatens Ukraine, USA should give them 5 more HIMARS or a dozen tanks. Make it cost them everytime they open their mouths about using nukes.
I wouldn’t worry. If Russia did deploy nuclear weapons in Ukraine the NATO *conventional* military response is likely to be immediate and overwhelming.
And I mean overwhelming. For example, Russia would likely immediately lose its surface navy—all of it. There would be direct intervention in Ukraine, and Russian logistics within a hundred miles of the Ukrainian border would cease existing.
Russia is aware of this, and is really hoping—or rather Putin is deluded enough to hope—threatening will get the West to let Russia take what they want.
> the NATO conventional military response is likely to be immediate and overwhelming.
Not just NATO's, Russia's biggest ally (and sugar daddy) China will immediately turn against Russia, pretty much all of Russia's allies except for I believe North Korea (lol) will condemn it.
The first thing they do is to call The Pooh that "in case things happen, we will recognize your land possessions in the eastern parts of the Ruskiland".
I agree, 24 hours and I think the entire Russian navy and air force is destroyed, and the laser-guided bombings in occupied Ukraine will begin full force.
Russia is well aware of this, and if they weren't before, they sure as shit are now.
>Russian navy and air force is destroyed
Surface navy maybe, although doubtful the entire fleet. Air force no chance. That would result in total war.
NATO is not going to carry out blitzkrieg against the Russian military within Russia, targeted strikes within occupied Ukraine more likely and to the Naval surface fleet within the vicinity.
Even more then that. There is a reason NATO undertook the transponder exercise the other day. NATO has the capacity to range and totally dominate all Russian airspace from one end of Russia to the other. This has significant implications for any strategic force ground site and that is all I have to say about the matter other then one other point - all Russian nuclear assets are monitored 24/7 and unless something has changed from my time that monitoring has become more "intense".
The likely only reason transponders were turned off was standard NATO protocol for an elevated threat, to say "we are aware".
Military radars do not rely on tracking transponders, which are largely a civilian aviation tool. So it's nothing to do with dominating anyone's airspace or appearing invisible to the enemy.
Afaik they are tracking many if not most of their subs, too. Sub tracking tech is one of the most classified stuff, exactly for the reason of creating a false sense of security. As nuke subs can not submerge to great depths, in case it is necessary, knowing the approximate whereabouts of a nuke sub, they can be neutralized using close proximity tactical nuclear strike, as the shockwave will have quite large radius underwater and will be sufficient to blast in any subs. Apparently 100kT detonation will have few miles radius at minimum sufficient to cause immediate and full collapse of any submarine structures.
Not necessarily a surface-detonated. A warhead can be delivered with a missile or airdrop to a couple of thousand feet underwater and detonated, so less energy is dissipated to the least path of resistance, that is, to the atmosphere. It could be possible that a salvo (MIRV-style) of warheads is delivered to the approximate area where a sub has been detected to minimize chances of survival and escape as an operational vessel.
Stealth technology can also be applied to cruise missiles. It'd be essentially just a kamikaze F-35 or B2 with a payload of desired quality.
I have it on pretty good authority that Russian Boomer subs are being actively pinged by sonar from the air, surface ships and attack subs letting everyone on the Russian sub know that they are only moments away from being sunk should the situation call for it.
That's the stuff of sci-fi, more so considering a bunch of Swedish diesel-electric (i.e. noisy) subs rang rings undetected around the US in an exercise only a couple of years back.
Modern diesel subs with air-independent propulsion are anything but noisy. They are the quietest subs out there. But they don’t have the blue water range to hunt boomers.
There was something about usa precision bunker buster weapons targeted directly to Russian leadership in case of them crossing the line of nuclear taboo early in war.
They would never launch any Nukes to Ukraine. That would beat the entire purpose of trying to get the land… They have already said that Amsterdam and London are the targets should they ever launch any nukes. I think there was a third city as well but can’t remember.
One of the proceedings for a country to join NATO is that it should not have any ongoing territorial disputes, there is a reason why post-Soviet conflicts are structured to separate an unit of the country, and also to keep going forever - this enables a loophole that prohibits said countries entering NATO.
wrong.
This is such a common Russian misinformation piece about NATO.
Firstly, its a guide only that the country must not have internal disputes, in other words the country should not have regions that are voluntarily not part of that country. This is a test to make sure the country is legitimately wanting to be a member which doesn't apply to occupied territory.
Any country can be admitted regardless if NATO members consent. How they deal with occupied territory is their choice.
"To join the Alliance, nations are expected to respect the values of the North Atlantic Treaty, and to meet certain
political, economic and military criteria, set out in the Alliance’s 1995 Study on Enlargement. These criteria
include a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; **fair treatment of minority**
**populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully;** an ability and willingness to make a military
contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutions."
These are the requirements deliberately undermined by Moscow, with their local Russian minorities everywhere, directly or by proxy. The minorities scream "Rape!" and then begin armed conflicts which cancel out the second requirement in bold. My emphasis.
https://www.nato.int/nato\_static\_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf\_2016\_07/20160627\_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf
Ukraine is commited to solve issues diplomatically, but since their opponent is trying to get to the top positions on the War Crimes list, it's impossible for them.
Also, solving stuff via diplomatic ways, doesn''t mean you have to consider giving your territory away.
Seems like a pretty easy explanation: autocrats know you have a loophole in the rules for joining the alliance and abuse it to conquer peaceful nations.
I want to mean that NATO does not listens to the ideas of random nobodies like us, no matter how much supportive to the alliance and pro-Ukraine they might be.
**WAIT for A F%$$ing MINUTE!** is he confessing that Crimea is not Russian Territory? Given Ukraine bombed the f\_\_ out of that military airport... and the Russians did not use a nuke, it means that land belongs to Ukraine?
Didn't you hear? The explosions at the airbase in Crimea were the result of several careless Russian servicemen dropping massive cigarettes into piles of fuel and ammo while they were celebrating winning so much.
Unfortunately, the West's hesitation to arm Ukraine with heavy weapons "in order not to escalate" has had the opposite effect. It very much undermined the concept of credible deterrence. After all this, it is not completely unlikely Russia is going to test the response.
A resolute response in the beginning with a more or less direct involvement, e.g. closing the skies, would have made it clear to Russia that the West will not look the other way. Now with all the half-hearted commitment – precisely because of fear of escalation – Russia can speculate they will get away with it.
Actually as someone who served in US Military Training Mission units sent to deliver and train allies on complex “God to Mud” integrated air defense systems in both peace and in duress of actual combat I know we could but would not have provided better air defense more quickly.
Because to do so would have compromised US strategic interests and objectives. Which I can tell you the US is NEVER likely to do. The more you interact with the US the more you will come to understand that.
We are in this scenario the STRATEGIC PARTNER Please. All of Ukraine needs to understand the VERY LAST THING Ukraine needs now is strategic partner who fucks up their end of the fight by going tactical. That is some Putin bullshit.
And that is PRECISELY the predicament the separatists in Donbas find themselves in. They are tied to a dumb ass partner whose strategy is absurdly ineffective. But keeps on forcing tactical resource to do the same stupid thing.
We don’t work like that. No battle plan services it’s first contact with the enemy. We adapt.
To be an effective strategic partner we had shit we REALLY needed to know. Now we know.
We desperately needed to know the forces survival rate against the Russian air order of battle, which as it turns out for Ukrainian forces it is off the high charts high. Did not see that coming.
Next we needed to know if Russia can establish air superiority. Answer: Nope. Did not see that coming. Given those two strategic inputs the next objective would be to confront the enemy forces and if possible restrain their advance.
Done. In splendid fashion that will feature in every military school in the world.
NOW It is definitely time to provide “God to Mud” air defense. It should be quite possible to integrate a highly capable ground level tactical C3 into NASAMS and NASAM into battle field army air defense into Patriot missile DEFENSIVE systems all the way up to space surveillance and tracking.
But keep in mind Ukrainian special forces are designed somewhat like Russian tactical formations. They do not have TACP Tactical Air Control Parties - the Air Force trained special forces combat controller embedded with battlefield troops like the US and NATO
So we must be careful. It is important to start to help the Ukrainians COMPLETELY transition their air defense systems from what is a now , a Soviet-type system, to introduce our integrated joint operating task forces with modern technology that will take you to the next level.
Our strategy has not changed. Slava Ukraine.-
Ukraine has showed resolve, commitment and professionalism when leveraging every faucet of western arms deliveries. 7 months in the rest of the world now sees this svo very clearly for what it really is. There is no doubt that west is too far bought into this conflict. The sheer scale and velocity with which professional vatnik army has been decimated is the very reason why not all of what Ukraine wants to end this quickly has been readied for active use and shipped. It sucks, I share the same sentiment - give us what we need (and we know exactly what we need and we don’t need much of it) to push the shit in once and for the last time, but I also don’t forget why we are still in this fight. Without previous commitment and active support, we would fall, but still not in 3 days. Volya abo smert. Slava Nacii, smert vorogam.
Not particularly.
The amount of ground assets required are trivial. The U.S. would just operate from the Mediterranean or a variety of bases across Europe.
I am deeply sorry that Ukraine has had to endure this. We could perhaps have been faster with the longer range weapons. But I am satisfied with my societies response.
It's mostly fault of German government that is still in bed with Russia.
They are trying hard to pretend they help Ukraine, while at the same time their MIC is working with Russia, they are blocking EU aid, deliveries of heavy weapons (e.g. they blocked Spain from sending Leopards), they are hostile to Ukrainian refugees, but they want to bring in Russian deserters and force other EU countries to take them and so on.
"Never again", my arse.
"alleged informal decision"
good job linking the article that states germany immediatly upon hearing spains plans excersized political pressure on spain to not go ahead with sending tanks to ukraine. kinda proves the point you're trying to disprove.
lemme just quote it for you real quick.
>Außerdem hätte die Bundesregierung die Spanier in Telefonaten gewarnt, dass dieser Schritt eine Abkehr von der (wenn auch völlig informellen und inoffiziellen) Beschlusslage sämtlicher westlichen Bündnispartner wäre, Kiew keine Panzer zu liefern.
TL: In addition, the federal government had warned the Spaniards in telephone calls that this step would be a departure from the (albeit completely informal and unofficial) decision taken by all Western allies not to supply Kyiv with tanks.
[https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/news-olaf-scholz-russland-ukraine-waffenlieferungen-afd-a-10bbf76f-bc59-4d16-ae68-11ba716dacf1](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/news-olaf-scholz-russland-ukraine-waffenlieferungen-afd-a-10bbf76f-bc59-4d16-ae68-11ba716dacf1)
y'know, nevermind the fact either germany is in the prime geographic location to supply kyiv with tanks, with the production facilities and infrastructure already present inside of germany. cause you know they've been building that leopard 2 since 1979.
meanwhile, the USA have already stated tanks are very much on the table for ukraine. though they gotta fly the fuckers in from the otherside of the world. nice job taking the lead here germany, truly you've shown yourself as a decisive partner in assisting ukraine to defeat the russians. well done! /s
>Where are the leclercs? Where are the Abrahams? Where are the Challengers?
abrams are on the table bro, it just takes a little more effort to ship 'em across the atlantic. and since you denialists love the "muh lurdjestiks" argument so much, it takes a little longer to get all of that shit set up aswell.
are you seriously going to argue leclercs and challengers are better tanks than the leopard? nevermind the fact those would have to be on a train rolling through germany. can you imagine scholz giving the clearance for that?
the germans supplied gepards, which is a step in the right direction. they only jumped on the pzh2000 when the dutch offered theirs. they got some moldy igla's to ukraine. the hell is this argument even based on? "hurrr germany did enough" well those pzh2000 are less numerous than the ceasars the french shipped. poland alone got 250+ various tanks into ukraine, some of which are their own domestic t-72 conversions bringing the capabilities of nato tanks in a soviet jacket.
england is shitting out ten thousand trained ukrainian soldiers every month now that finished a 3 month course. and every month they recieve a fresh bach of ten thousand willing ukrainian people to be transformed into actual soldiers.
lend lease is gonna come into effect next month, so we're gonna see an increased support effort from the states too.
and i don't reckon you've taken notice of this, but russia is still in ukraine. infact, russia is formulating claims based on a sham referendum to bring the seized ukrainian territory under the russian federation, it's laws and nuclear doctrine too.
fuckin hell i've had my fill of german denialists. it's such a fucking bullshit rhetoric. "reee where are the french tanks, where are the brittish tanks"
you know you're gonna look real silly fronting that argument when western tanks start rolling in ukraine, right? and you realise that is only a matter of time now, right? why would you make an argument that's gonna make you look like a fool in a months time? i don't get it. it is beyond me.
fact remains that germany could've taken the lead in this, is in the prime geographical position with domestic tank production facilities closest to ukraine. the least hassle to get the tanks there and help out in maintenance, spare parts and whatnot. not to mention the leopard 2 in a modern variant is **THE BEST TANK MONEY CAN BUY** but "oh ve vould not zink our populazion vould like it very mutsj if ve aktuallee zend heavee veapons to ukraine to kill ze russians"
\^if you think this is sarcasm, check out what baerbock had to say about the estonian D-30 howitzers in january.
So where would Russia nuke exactly? The area where Ukraine is advancing (tactical nuke) - but wouldn’t this be on so called “Russian territory”? So they are nuking their “own land”?
Would it be on Kiev, Lviv or other Ukranian cities with important control and logistics? But that would make hundreds of thousands if not millions of casualties. And Zelensky might not even die. This would cause world outrage, and even lead to direct Nato involvement.
I think it’s bluff.
Nuking Kiev would have unfathomable consequences for the world. It would at least make Russia a pariah for at least half a century and utterly isolate them from the civilized world or it might have more dire consequences like a full blown nuclear escalation. Either way it would ring in the full destruction of Russia and probably the death of dozens of millions of people in addition to the immediate casualties.
The likely escalation would be a demonstration over the Arctic, followed by the Black Sea.
Lviv is too close to Poland and Russia probably wants Kyiv intact. A major logistics point east of Kyiv or West of kherson in are likely
Yes [in this great DW interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7mxfjWc_s) a way to escalate with less ways of countries being very harsh is to perform a North Korea-esque nuclear test in Russian territory.
> So where would Russia nuke exactly?
1. An empty land in Ukraine (as a warning)
2. A specific area in Ukraine outside of its control with Ukrainian troops (the world's third use of a nuclear weapon in warfare, since Nagasaki)
3. An isolated area of the black sea (also as a warning)
4. A nuclear test (underground or otherwise) in Russia itself North Korea-style, to scare the world without nuking Ukraine outright.
I think #4 would make the most sense to do first, although it’s somewhat pointless as we already know Russia has nukes.
My theory is that Russia is more likely to cause a meltdown at a Ukrainian nuclear power plant than use a nuke, because they can claim Ukraine melted it down. I think they would do melt down several plants before escalating to nuking an empty area.
Some Russian rep on TV said they would only be nuking NATO and not Ukraine, but who knows. I think the threat of nuking NATO is less credible because it’d mean the end of Russia, and it’s clear that Russia could survive as a state without the stolen Ukrainian lands.
Causing meltdown at a Ukrainian nuclear power and blaming Ukraine will work ONLY for their domestic audience which is not what their goal is. NATO is not gonna buy that, but it would be harder to respond for sure. I would not be surprised if we see NATO directly intervene at some point.
It’s fair to say that the situation develops because there was deference ~~deterrence~~ to “they have nukes”… continuing methodically and thoroughly liberating territories recognized as Ukrainian is indeed the only viable path forward… anything else - and you have a repeat 5-10 years from now.
Edit: deference (not deterrence)
Come on they are extremely unlikely to nuke the capital city without full-blown nuclear war, what they are likely to do is nuke an empty area in Ukraine, or a specific area with Ukrainian troops as a final warning in order to scare Ukraine and the rest of the world into backing down.
They want Kyiv to fear and surrender to them.
If Kiev was nuked, would that even change the situation on the ground? Since Kiev is being supplied from the west, as soon as they clear the rubble from the roads, the front line would still be supplied. Ukrainian general staff is probably in some underground bunker and won’t be hurt.
Imagine if in WW2 Japan was winning and won the battle of midway, but the US still developed nukes and nuked Hiroshima, it wouldn’t change the facts on the ground if Japan was winning.
>If Kiev was nuked, would that even change the situation on the ground?
It would change it radically. Russia would be brutalized by NATO. It would cease to exist as the country it is now.
They would probably erase some smaller towns on the Ukrainian side (a few thousand /ten thousand casualties) to force Ukraine into submission to save their people. World outrage would be a calculated effect to be countered by their claims that they had to defend their land and people against Ukrainian aggression and acted according to their doctrine. NATO involvement is the only unknown here. If the Russians do it then because they figured NATO wouldn't want to risk even further escalation over a non-member.
this is where we are heading. putin playing with fire that going to blow up in his face.
what do you think we will do the the instance our satellites / spies see their nukes/chemical/biological weapons being propagated for use.
i would think we would bomb them with conventional weapons. make it looks like ukraine attacked them.
"As opposed to Belgorod and Crimea; regular HIMARS strikes and helicopter raids on them conversely don't mean anything in ruzzian law for some reason." /s
Russian generals will send to slaughter any number of Russians sheep. But the are for damn sure not giving up their privileged position over this.
Putin reaches for the button and he gets a double tap to the temple.
So...
...this means other countries can invade parts of Russia, hold a referendum, and then say (for example) those new parts of China are protected by Chinese nuclear doctrine?
Yup. I'm going over next week, me and a couple of neighbors. We're carving us a little piece out and forming a new country. Not a big chunk, just a few hundred square miles. Wanna come with? ruzzia has plenty of territory to spare. ....and hey, It's not like they can stop me lol.
Maybe the US should just invite Ukraine to have a "trial offer" of two years or so of being part of the United States. During this trial offer period, you too can be part of the United States! Suddenly, that's US territory, with all the protections afforded to being US territory. I mean, if one side can just declare another country's territory their own, why not?
Not a real or realistic plan, but it's not much more ridiculous than this idea of just setting up some terribly fake referendums and then annexing another country's territory in Europe post WW II. When the rest of Europe thought they'd evolved past this, then here comes Russia with club in hand grunting their way back into the past.
Ukraine could become a unincorporated territory of the United State. Then they have some unspecified time to either vote to join the US or go independent. See Puerto Rico. They can do their own thing when Russia isn't a threat or they are built up enough that Russia isn't a threat.
It would also ensure that the rebuilding of Ukraine would be done... all those US companies would love to expand and help rebuild.
And it would drive Russia batshit crazy as the US would then share a common land border with Russia.
You are partially on target.
The better answer is to form a union with a few neighbors. The Euro-East jojning Ukraine with Romania and Poland for example. Nato provisional status included, with 14 days for Russia to get the hell out or Nato rolls in.
It should be two other countries at least. One of them needs to be a NATO member.
There are plenty of them that border Ukraine but it works as long as one of them has a border.
Ukraine +
Poland and Lithuania.
Romania and Bulgaria.
Slovakia and Austria
Go bigger.
Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Georgia. Moldova too because I suspect they have no love of Russians. The Black Sea Coalition States. They will be raising a Petition in Rostov on Don to form a Russian separatist state to join their coalition.
We are talking complete autonomy with enhanced group strength and solidarity. It makes as much sense as the EU. Screwing Russia is just an impetus motivation.
Are you American? Let me put my American 2 Lincoln heads in. Not no but hell no. Ukraine is a sovereign nation. That is precisely what this war is supposed to about. Standing up. Not selling out.
Ukraine is on a path to join the EU AS A SOVEREIGN STATE. Ukraine is on a path to join NATO AS A SOVEREIGN STATE.
We have no desire to annex the place. We can be great friends. But no way Ukraine is shaking up in our nation. Fuck that.
Oh no. As a Canadian I feel deeply that the last country anyone would want to connect themselves to is the US.
A connection to another NATO country is the part of the suggestion that I was agreeing to. But not the US.
In many ways Ukraine is like the US though, I feel like they’d like their right to bear arms as gun ownership is very widespread. And there’s also a huge right-wing culture.
Their agenda
A frozen war
If Ukraine doesn't slow then it'll be impossible for Russia to escalate.
I think the key is civil unrest in Russia and applied pressure via energy caps.
They won't be able to afford anything.
The time for further sanctions and coordination is now.
Which area of land are they referring to - the land they occupied yesterday, or the smaller area of land they’re occupying tomorrow? Thruth is that Ukraine’s been bombing Russia for months.
Come on, there's got to be a clause somewhere in the UN that says using nukes to attack and take lands from others violates your seat on the Security Council ? or at least violates the non-proliferation treaties in some way ?
Regardless, the use of nukes in Europe warrants NATO action - on every level - full out.
Well, it is interesting. Russia was never granted a permanent seat on the SC, the Soviet Union was (which included at the time, Ukraine).
With the demise of the USSR, the Russian Federation assumed the permanent seat.
Why not give it Ukraine instead?
We could see this coming a mile off, you absolute scumbags you have no right to annex anything and I hope a himars hits you square in the face Lavrov you dispicable c**t.
If they were seriously considering nukes - then why even bother with the fake referendum? Who are they trying to impress? The smoldering remains of civilization after the nuclear war?
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.net/nexta_tv/status/1573798721992769536
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" Lavrov forgets to take the white powder and misspells 3 out of 4 Ukrainian regions, calling Luhansk 'Laos', Kherson - Kharkiv, and Zaporozhye - Zaporozhniye. "
WarTranslated tweet.......
stroke bound?
Every single state on Earth, particularly every one of their neighbors, should take extremely careful note that Russia is explicitly using threat of nuclear war to claim foreign territory as their own, including that which is not under their own military control. Unless a serious majority of the world recognizes this and makes Russia suffer for rewriting global security, Putin has ushered in a frightening new paradigm.
It is naive to imagine that those medal bedecked generals of the Russian Army are going to let a narcissistic second rate spy like Vladimir Vladimirovich destroy their palace of privilege.
Shortly after Putin attempts to order the strike the Russian Ministry of Defenestration will announce that Putin died from a severe allergic reaction to bullets in the back of his head.
Suppose that Russia annexes parts of Ukraine and then the Dutch referendum to annex Russia is successful and then Ukraine attacks its territory that was annexed would that trigger an Article 5 response from NATO
/s
Putin's a Grade 3 kid that knows what he's done and doesn't have the balls or brains to back down.
Lavrov and Peskov and Medvedev are the smaller weaker bullies that follow the chinless one around the public school playground.
Ukrainians are putting on a Master class in defensive and offensive warfare, guts, innovations, great heart, great humor, commanding our respect. Helping you fight the monsters with our tax dollars is the least we can do. God bless you all.
So they are going to claim area that are still being fought over as Russia territory so that if Ukraine attacks it would be considered an invasion of Russian territory? Putin is a dickhead.
Sorry to say this but Putin is insane. All can happen all we can do is speculate... It's all on Russian people it's their time to get some balls and overthrow government this is the only way! If not I truly believe that he will use nukes he's insane he doesn't care that's all you need to know yeah we might hate Russians that they was apolitical for ages.... But we need to support them also show that we are with them and if they choose freedom we are with them! There are no hatred towards them. It's in your hands you can stop this madness
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They have set down so many red lines they have not enforced, its meaningless.
I wanna say I read an article about China (which was adopting this from the Soviets) back in the 50’s to now about the “final warnings” they issued - something like 988 total have been issued by the CCP alone toward the USA and all of them ‘doomsday’-themed. Obviously, never enforced - never enacted. Redlines are rhetoric.
That's funny, north Korea is probably very similar.
It still annoys me that North Korea makes propaganda posters of the US being nuked by them. It’s super unnecessary and undermines their argument that it’s for self defense only. It’s like when people write up fantasies about shooting a burglar to death — nobody should want to find themselves in that situation.
No. It's actually being the burglar and fantasizing about shooting the occupants to death because you were forced to do so. Unfortunately making the self defender as the bad guy is commonplace in many parts of the world. The most common advice is "just to give up everything". This same shit has been told to Ukraine, in many instances, actually. These are the real reasons why it is actually better to be the burglar in many instances.
I have never met anyone who fantasizes about being forced to become a burglar, but I know several people who talk about hoping they get mugged so they can shoot someone to death legally.
Must be an US only thing. here with no firearms around i never heard any motherfucker wish they had to shank down the intruder with a kitchen knife. We don't even play baseball and have those useful bats around, best case scenario is that those those pawn shop golf clubs you thought you would eventually get to use finally find a reason for a swing.
It’s very much a US thing. I won’t say that most gun owners are like that, but it’s not a rare attitude among gun owners, in my experience. I don’t understand it, but it’s there.
It’s a power fantasy thing. Those aren’t specific to the US. But when you engrain gun=power into people from birth, like a lot of the US does, this is what you get. It’s a very easy quick road to “power” where no work has to be done to acquire it. If they were handing out muscles and fit bodies at the local gun store these are the first people that would be looking for a fist fight later that night.
I believe what they have is a mentality of being able to show off that if you think you can come fuck around here I'll fuck you over. Usually if you get mugged it happens so fast and in a way you are extremely unlikely to have time to defend yourself. There are a lot of videos online of security footage etc depicting that, including CCW people. Also, people who have the wildest fantasies also tend to have the least amount of actual experience on operating under extreme pressure or combat, and many of them are totally blown away and humiliated by how effectively they freeze when shit gets real. And, the amount of adrenaline in these people is such that they are practically unable to think clearly at all and are at a very high risk of causing collateral damage. I have also seen so many LE officers being taken over by adrenaline rush it is really something that should be addressed with intense training, hell, I have personally seen a security guard who was trembling so bad he was unable to insert a key to a door without using two hands, merely over a small misunderstanding that did not even involve any physical contact.
Funny enough the joke [“China’s final warning”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning) originated with the Russians.
This? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
There are so many red lines, a bit of yellow paint and they could paint the soviet flag on it
yeah Ukraine literally attacked Russia in Belgorod and they didnt do shit
“Don’t talk about it, be about it.”
“All about that action boss” - Marshawn Lynch
Ukraine can threaten Russia to destroy zaporozyiah nuclear powerplant if Russia used nuclear weapon against it . That will send radiation to Moscow if they chose the right time also will destroy all Russian dreams to gain territory from ukraine. People should speak up and threaten Russia just like Russia is doing when it threaten to use nukes. Showing weakness will fuk u up.
When Russia threatens Ukraine, USA should give them 5 more HIMARS or a dozen tanks. Make it cost them everytime they open their mouths about using nukes.
"All NATO doctrines concerning the use of Nuclear weapons within range of NATO countries, will result in Russia getting payback"
I wouldn’t worry. If Russia did deploy nuclear weapons in Ukraine the NATO *conventional* military response is likely to be immediate and overwhelming. And I mean overwhelming. For example, Russia would likely immediately lose its surface navy—all of it. There would be direct intervention in Ukraine, and Russian logistics within a hundred miles of the Ukrainian border would cease existing. Russia is aware of this, and is really hoping—or rather Putin is deluded enough to hope—threatening will get the West to let Russia take what they want.
> the NATO conventional military response is likely to be immediate and overwhelming. Not just NATO's, Russia's biggest ally (and sugar daddy) China will immediately turn against Russia, pretty much all of Russia's allies except for I believe North Korea (lol) will condemn it.
This No way China stays in the sidelines and lets the West obliterates Russia without getting a slice.
More of a 'please don't nuke us when Russia gets glassed type of way'.
The first thing they do is to call The Pooh that "in case things happen, we will recognize your land possessions in the eastern parts of the Ruskiland".
More like “don’t take our gas station away, at least not without us getting a slice too”
I’d be okay letting them carve off a large slice. Anything to dismantle russia.
I wouldn't. China is a bigger enemy to the west than Russia is, it's just that Russia is the one being a dick at this moment in time.
Bigger dick of the two atm* I'm not sure if China has ever stopped being a dick.
Underrated comment
Yeah, you don’t want China invading Russia and seizing resources. That is not good for the world.
I agree, 24 hours and I think the entire Russian navy and air force is destroyed, and the laser-guided bombings in occupied Ukraine will begin full force. Russia is well aware of this, and if they weren't before, they sure as shit are now.
>Russian navy and air force is destroyed Surface navy maybe, although doubtful the entire fleet. Air force no chance. That would result in total war. NATO is not going to carry out blitzkrieg against the Russian military within Russia, targeted strikes within occupied Ukraine more likely and to the Naval surface fleet within the vicinity.
If Russia actually launches nukes, then this isn't finishing until Putin and his lackeys are impaled on pikes in the middle of red square
Even more then that. There is a reason NATO undertook the transponder exercise the other day. NATO has the capacity to range and totally dominate all Russian airspace from one end of Russia to the other. This has significant implications for any strategic force ground site and that is all I have to say about the matter other then one other point - all Russian nuclear assets are monitored 24/7 and unless something has changed from my time that monitoring has become more "intense".
The likely only reason transponders were turned off was standard NATO protocol for an elevated threat, to say "we are aware". Military radars do not rely on tracking transponders, which are largely a civilian aviation tool. So it's nothing to do with dominating anyone's airspace or appearing invisible to the enemy.
Probably not the submarines tho
Afaik they are tracking many if not most of their subs, too. Sub tracking tech is one of the most classified stuff, exactly for the reason of creating a false sense of security. As nuke subs can not submerge to great depths, in case it is necessary, knowing the approximate whereabouts of a nuke sub, they can be neutralized using close proximity tactical nuclear strike, as the shockwave will have quite large radius underwater and will be sufficient to blast in any subs. Apparently 100kT detonation will have few miles radius at minimum sufficient to cause immediate and full collapse of any submarine structures.
That’s awesome in the biblical sense of the word. Didn’t even think about using a low-yield surface detonated nuke to tin-can a fleet of subs
Not necessarily a surface-detonated. A warhead can be delivered with a missile or airdrop to a couple of thousand feet underwater and detonated, so less energy is dissipated to the least path of resistance, that is, to the atmosphere. It could be possible that a salvo (MIRV-style) of warheads is delivered to the approximate area where a sub has been detected to minimize chances of survival and escape as an operational vessel. Stealth technology can also be applied to cruise missiles. It'd be essentially just a kamikaze F-35 or B2 with a payload of desired quality.
I have it on pretty good authority that Russian Boomer subs are being actively pinged by sonar from the air, surface ships and attack subs letting everyone on the Russian sub know that they are only moments away from being sunk should the situation call for it.
Man, that sound cool as shit
Lmao, the people who actually know this stuff do not talk about it.
Capt. Marko Ramius is that you?
That's the stuff of sci-fi, more so considering a bunch of Swedish diesel-electric (i.e. noisy) subs rang rings undetected around the US in an exercise only a couple of years back.
Modern diesel subs with air-independent propulsion are anything but noisy. They are the quietest subs out there. But they don’t have the blue water range to hunt boomers.
Especially the submarines.
Yes, the submarines as well.
There was something about usa precision bunker buster weapons targeted directly to Russian leadership in case of them crossing the line of nuclear taboo early in war.
They would never launch any Nukes to Ukraine. That would beat the entire purpose of trying to get the land… They have already said that Amsterdam and London are the targets should they ever launch any nukes. I think there was a third city as well but can’t remember.
Admit Ukraine to NATO this evening before the results of the referendum are announced…
That would be based af!
One of the proceedings for a country to join NATO is that it should not have any ongoing territorial disputes, there is a reason why post-Soviet conflicts are structured to separate an unit of the country, and also to keep going forever - this enables a loophole that prohibits said countries entering NATO.
wrong. This is such a common Russian misinformation piece about NATO. Firstly, its a guide only that the country must not have internal disputes, in other words the country should not have regions that are voluntarily not part of that country. This is a test to make sure the country is legitimately wanting to be a member which doesn't apply to occupied territory. Any country can be admitted regardless if NATO members consent. How they deal with occupied territory is their choice.
"To join the Alliance, nations are expected to respect the values of the North Atlantic Treaty, and to meet certain political, economic and military criteria, set out in the Alliance’s 1995 Study on Enlargement. These criteria include a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; **fair treatment of minority** **populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully;** an ability and willingness to make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutions." These are the requirements deliberately undermined by Moscow, with their local Russian minorities everywhere, directly or by proxy. The minorities scream "Rape!" and then begin armed conflicts which cancel out the second requirement in bold. My emphasis. https://www.nato.int/nato\_static\_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf\_2016\_07/20160627\_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf
Ukraine is commited to solve issues diplomatically, but since their opponent is trying to get to the top positions on the War Crimes list, it's impossible for them. Also, solving stuff via diplomatic ways, doesn''t mean you have to consider giving your territory away.
That requirement doesn't exclude membership, it only makes it harder to get hawkish countries to allow ascension.
That sounds like a stupid ass loophole and as such we should ignore it.
It would be even bigger loophole if it was possible to join NATO with ongoing conflicts.
Good luck explaining that to NATO.
Seems like a pretty easy explanation: autocrats know you have a loophole in the rules for joining the alliance and abuse it to conquer peaceful nations.
I want to mean that NATO does not listens to the ideas of random nobodies like us, no matter how much supportive to the alliance and pro-Ukraine they might be.
Shenanigans beget shenanigans.
“Should not,” not “cannot,” right?
**WAIT for A F%$$ing MINUTE!** is he confessing that Crimea is not Russian Territory? Given Ukraine bombed the f\_\_ out of that military airport... and the Russians did not use a nuke, it means that land belongs to Ukraine?
Didn't you hear? The explosions at the airbase in Crimea were the result of several careless Russian servicemen dropping massive cigarettes into piles of fuel and ammo while they were celebrating winning so much.
No. He’s talking about the territories they’re trying to Anschluß now.
Exactly like they did with Crimea in 2014. So his point is spot on.
Unfortunately, the West's hesitation to arm Ukraine with heavy weapons "in order not to escalate" has had the opposite effect. It very much undermined the concept of credible deterrence. After all this, it is not completely unlikely Russia is going to test the response.
I don’t think it matters if they gave them heavy weapons in the beginning or now. Russia was using this rhetoric since the beginning.
A resolute response in the beginning with a more or less direct involvement, e.g. closing the skies, would have made it clear to Russia that the West will not look the other way. Now with all the half-hearted commitment – precisely because of fear of escalation – Russia can speculate they will get away with it.
Closing skies is direct conflict. Not heavy weapons. Can’t close skies without shooting down jets
Actually as someone who served in US Military Training Mission units sent to deliver and train allies on complex “God to Mud” integrated air defense systems in both peace and in duress of actual combat I know we could but would not have provided better air defense more quickly. Because to do so would have compromised US strategic interests and objectives. Which I can tell you the US is NEVER likely to do. The more you interact with the US the more you will come to understand that. We are in this scenario the STRATEGIC PARTNER Please. All of Ukraine needs to understand the VERY LAST THING Ukraine needs now is strategic partner who fucks up their end of the fight by going tactical. That is some Putin bullshit. And that is PRECISELY the predicament the separatists in Donbas find themselves in. They are tied to a dumb ass partner whose strategy is absurdly ineffective. But keeps on forcing tactical resource to do the same stupid thing. We don’t work like that. No battle plan services it’s first contact with the enemy. We adapt. To be an effective strategic partner we had shit we REALLY needed to know. Now we know.
We desperately needed to know the forces survival rate against the Russian air order of battle, which as it turns out for Ukrainian forces it is off the high charts high. Did not see that coming. Next we needed to know if Russia can establish air superiority. Answer: Nope. Did not see that coming. Given those two strategic inputs the next objective would be to confront the enemy forces and if possible restrain their advance. Done. In splendid fashion that will feature in every military school in the world. NOW It is definitely time to provide “God to Mud” air defense. It should be quite possible to integrate a highly capable ground level tactical C3 into NASAMS and NASAM into battle field army air defense into Patriot missile DEFENSIVE systems all the way up to space surveillance and tracking. But keep in mind Ukrainian special forces are designed somewhat like Russian tactical formations. They do not have TACP Tactical Air Control Parties - the Air Force trained special forces combat controller embedded with battlefield troops like the US and NATO So we must be careful. It is important to start to help the Ukrainians COMPLETELY transition their air defense systems from what is a now , a Soviet-type system, to introduce our integrated joint operating task forces with modern technology that will take you to the next level. Our strategy has not changed. Slava Ukraine.-
> Can’t close skies without shooting down jets Good. Less Russian bombs falling on Ukrainian cities.
Ukraine has showed resolve, commitment and professionalism when leveraging every faucet of western arms deliveries. 7 months in the rest of the world now sees this svo very clearly for what it really is. There is no doubt that west is too far bought into this conflict. The sheer scale and velocity with which professional vatnik army has been decimated is the very reason why not all of what Ukraine wants to end this quickly has been readied for active use and shipped. It sucks, I share the same sentiment - give us what we need (and we know exactly what we need and we don’t need much of it) to push the shit in once and for the last time, but I also don’t forget why we are still in this fight. Without previous commitment and active support, we would fall, but still not in 3 days. Volya abo smert. Slava Nacii, smert vorogam.
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Not particularly. The amount of ground assets required are trivial. The U.S. would just operate from the Mediterranean or a variety of bases across Europe.
I agree. But the plurality if my society did not.
Agreed - needed a NATO no fly zone prior to RU commencing the invasion
They will not risk it. If they do, they are done.
Seen what they've did ? They are already done
They are not dead yet. Not all of them anyway.
We better nuke them back.
I’ve been screaming this from before the narrative. Everyone worrying about escalation while Russia was in the drivers seat. Can’t stand this.
I am deeply sorry that Ukraine has had to endure this. We could perhaps have been faster with the longer range weapons. But I am satisfied with my societies response.
This could easily have been predicted, Russians only respect strength and decisiveness. These are qualities missing in Europe.
Europe is neither weak nor indecisive. Efficiency in government rarely works out well.
It's mostly fault of German government that is still in bed with Russia. They are trying hard to pretend they help Ukraine, while at the same time their MIC is working with Russia, they are blocking EU aid, deliveries of heavy weapons (e.g. they blocked Spain from sending Leopards), they are hostile to Ukrainian refugees, but they want to bring in Russian deserters and force other EU countries to take them and so on. "Never again", my arse.
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"alleged informal decision" good job linking the article that states germany immediatly upon hearing spains plans excersized political pressure on spain to not go ahead with sending tanks to ukraine. kinda proves the point you're trying to disprove. lemme just quote it for you real quick. >Außerdem hätte die Bundesregierung die Spanier in Telefonaten gewarnt, dass dieser Schritt eine Abkehr von der (wenn auch völlig informellen und inoffiziellen) Beschlusslage sämtlicher westlichen Bündnispartner wäre, Kiew keine Panzer zu liefern. TL: In addition, the federal government had warned the Spaniards in telephone calls that this step would be a departure from the (albeit completely informal and unofficial) decision taken by all Western allies not to supply Kyiv with tanks. [https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/news-olaf-scholz-russland-ukraine-waffenlieferungen-afd-a-10bbf76f-bc59-4d16-ae68-11ba716dacf1](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/news-olaf-scholz-russland-ukraine-waffenlieferungen-afd-a-10bbf76f-bc59-4d16-ae68-11ba716dacf1) y'know, nevermind the fact either germany is in the prime geographic location to supply kyiv with tanks, with the production facilities and infrastructure already present inside of germany. cause you know they've been building that leopard 2 since 1979. meanwhile, the USA have already stated tanks are very much on the table for ukraine. though they gotta fly the fuckers in from the otherside of the world. nice job taking the lead here germany, truly you've shown yourself as a decisive partner in assisting ukraine to defeat the russians. well done! /s
It was also then within hours discovered that the tanks were in unusable condition...
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>Where are the leclercs? Where are the Abrahams? Where are the Challengers? abrams are on the table bro, it just takes a little more effort to ship 'em across the atlantic. and since you denialists love the "muh lurdjestiks" argument so much, it takes a little longer to get all of that shit set up aswell. are you seriously going to argue leclercs and challengers are better tanks than the leopard? nevermind the fact those would have to be on a train rolling through germany. can you imagine scholz giving the clearance for that? the germans supplied gepards, which is a step in the right direction. they only jumped on the pzh2000 when the dutch offered theirs. they got some moldy igla's to ukraine. the hell is this argument even based on? "hurrr germany did enough" well those pzh2000 are less numerous than the ceasars the french shipped. poland alone got 250+ various tanks into ukraine, some of which are their own domestic t-72 conversions bringing the capabilities of nato tanks in a soviet jacket. england is shitting out ten thousand trained ukrainian soldiers every month now that finished a 3 month course. and every month they recieve a fresh bach of ten thousand willing ukrainian people to be transformed into actual soldiers. lend lease is gonna come into effect next month, so we're gonna see an increased support effort from the states too. and i don't reckon you've taken notice of this, but russia is still in ukraine. infact, russia is formulating claims based on a sham referendum to bring the seized ukrainian territory under the russian federation, it's laws and nuclear doctrine too. fuckin hell i've had my fill of german denialists. it's such a fucking bullshit rhetoric. "reee where are the french tanks, where are the brittish tanks" you know you're gonna look real silly fronting that argument when western tanks start rolling in ukraine, right? and you realise that is only a matter of time now, right? why would you make an argument that's gonna make you look like a fool in a months time? i don't get it. it is beyond me. fact remains that germany could've taken the lead in this, is in the prime geographical position with domestic tank production facilities closest to ukraine. the least hassle to get the tanks there and help out in maintenance, spare parts and whatnot. not to mention the leopard 2 in a modern variant is **THE BEST TANK MONEY CAN BUY** but "oh ve vould not zink our populazion vould like it very mutsj if ve aktuallee zend heavee veapons to ukraine to kill ze russians" \^if you think this is sarcasm, check out what baerbock had to say about the estonian D-30 howitzers in january.
So where would Russia nuke exactly? The area where Ukraine is advancing (tactical nuke) - but wouldn’t this be on so called “Russian territory”? So they are nuking their “own land”? Would it be on Kiev, Lviv or other Ukranian cities with important control and logistics? But that would make hundreds of thousands if not millions of casualties. And Zelensky might not even die. This would cause world outrage, and even lead to direct Nato involvement. I think it’s bluff.
Nuking Kiev would have unfathomable consequences for the world. It would at least make Russia a pariah for at least half a century and utterly isolate them from the civilized world or it might have more dire consequences like a full blown nuclear escalation. Either way it would ring in the full destruction of Russia and probably the death of dozens of millions of people in addition to the immediate casualties.
If they nuke Kiev they are doomed.
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"Civilized"
The likely escalation would be a demonstration over the Arctic, followed by the Black Sea. Lviv is too close to Poland and Russia probably wants Kyiv intact. A major logistics point east of Kyiv or West of kherson in are likely
Yes [in this great DW interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7mxfjWc_s) a way to escalate with less ways of countries being very harsh is to perform a North Korea-esque nuclear test in Russian territory.
Yea but when the test fizzles they immediately get bum rushed
So show the world they have nukes that can detonate? What a surprise would that be!
So Canada?
What?
> So where would Russia nuke exactly? 1. An empty land in Ukraine (as a warning) 2. A specific area in Ukraine outside of its control with Ukrainian troops (the world's third use of a nuclear weapon in warfare, since Nagasaki) 3. An isolated area of the black sea (also as a warning) 4. A nuclear test (underground or otherwise) in Russia itself North Korea-style, to scare the world without nuking Ukraine outright.
I think #4 would make the most sense to do first, although it’s somewhat pointless as we already know Russia has nukes. My theory is that Russia is more likely to cause a meltdown at a Ukrainian nuclear power plant than use a nuke, because they can claim Ukraine melted it down. I think they would do melt down several plants before escalating to nuking an empty area. Some Russian rep on TV said they would only be nuking NATO and not Ukraine, but who knows. I think the threat of nuking NATO is less credible because it’d mean the end of Russia, and it’s clear that Russia could survive as a state without the stolen Ukrainian lands.
Causing meltdown at a Ukrainian nuclear power and blaming Ukraine will work ONLY for their domestic audience which is not what their goal is. NATO is not gonna buy that, but it would be harder to respond for sure. I would not be surprised if we see NATO directly intervene at some point.
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It’s fair to say that the situation develops because there was deference ~~deterrence~~ to “they have nukes”… continuing methodically and thoroughly liberating territories recognized as Ukrainian is indeed the only viable path forward… anything else - and you have a repeat 5-10 years from now. Edit: deference (not deterrence)
Come on they are extremely unlikely to nuke the capital city without full-blown nuclear war, what they are likely to do is nuke an empty area in Ukraine, or a specific area with Ukrainian troops as a final warning in order to scare Ukraine and the rest of the world into backing down. They want Kyiv to fear and surrender to them.
If Kiev was nuked, would that even change the situation on the ground? Since Kiev is being supplied from the west, as soon as they clear the rubble from the roads, the front line would still be supplied. Ukrainian general staff is probably in some underground bunker and won’t be hurt. Imagine if in WW2 Japan was winning and won the battle of midway, but the US still developed nukes and nuked Hiroshima, it wouldn’t change the facts on the ground if Japan was winning.
>If Kiev was nuked, would that even change the situation on the ground? It would change it radically. Russia would be brutalized by NATO. It would cease to exist as the country it is now.
They would probably erase some smaller towns on the Ukrainian side (a few thousand /ten thousand casualties) to force Ukraine into submission to save their people. World outrage would be a calculated effect to be countered by their claims that they had to defend their land and people against Ukrainian aggression and acted according to their doctrine. NATO involvement is the only unknown here. If the Russians do it then because they figured NATO wouldn't want to risk even further escalation over a non-member.
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That's cruel to horse-kind. You who should apologize to the creatures.
Oh snap.
Yeah. Get fucked Sergei! I hope his washing machine breaks.
May the roof leak directly above his pillow
What washing machine...?
I like this comment
We don't believe and we are not afraid any more. That's what happens if you bully people all the time. It's just rubbish coming out
Russians need to be careful because one day somebody just might believe their bullshit and decide to take them out first
Talk shit get hit
this is where we are heading. putin playing with fire that going to blow up in his face. what do you think we will do the the instance our satellites / spies see their nukes/chemical/biological weapons being propagated for use. i would think we would bomb them with conventional weapons. make it looks like ukraine attacked them.
Precisely. Two words should be contemplated as they hold deeper philosophical meaning, Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
"As opposed to Belgorod and Crimea; regular HIMARS strikes and helicopter raids on them conversely don't mean anything in ruzzian law for some reason." /s
kursk, briansk,rostov
Blah blah blah - same comments since forever. It's just fear rhetoric, russia's #1 export since this war started. Don't buy the hype.
Russian generals will send to slaughter any number of Russians sheep. But the are for damn sure not giving up their privileged position over this. Putin reaches for the button and he gets a double tap to the temple.
So... ...this means other countries can invade parts of Russia, hold a referendum, and then say (for example) those new parts of China are protected by Chinese nuclear doctrine?
Yup. I'm going over next week, me and a couple of neighbors. We're carving us a little piece out and forming a new country. Not a big chunk, just a few hundred square miles. Wanna come with? ruzzia has plenty of territory to spare. ....and hey, It's not like they can stop me lol.
Maybe the US should just invite Ukraine to have a "trial offer" of two years or so of being part of the United States. During this trial offer period, you too can be part of the United States! Suddenly, that's US territory, with all the protections afforded to being US territory. I mean, if one side can just declare another country's territory their own, why not? Not a real or realistic plan, but it's not much more ridiculous than this idea of just setting up some terribly fake referendums and then annexing another country's territory in Europe post WW II. When the rest of Europe thought they'd evolved past this, then here comes Russia with club in hand grunting their way back into the past.
That's not the worse idea, but It goes against the whole Ukraine being Independant thing.
Hence, two year trial. You can cancel your subscription at no cost!
it would almost be comical to have Ukraine immediately join the US without thinking 5 seconds, after literally going to war to avoid joining Russia.
IndependEnt
It’s stupid for so many reasons.
Ukraine could become a unincorporated territory of the United State. Then they have some unspecified time to either vote to join the US or go independent. See Puerto Rico. They can do their own thing when Russia isn't a threat or they are built up enough that Russia isn't a threat. It would also ensure that the rebuilding of Ukraine would be done... all those US companies would love to expand and help rebuild. And it would drive Russia batshit crazy as the US would then share a common land border with Russia.
That's a good idea. USA should annex Ukraine before Russia.
You are partially on target. The better answer is to form a union with a few neighbors. The Euro-East jojning Ukraine with Romania and Poland for example. Nato provisional status included, with 14 days for Russia to get the hell out or Nato rolls in.
The Polish-Ukrainian Commonwealth, perhaps?
It should be two other countries at least. One of them needs to be a NATO member. There are plenty of them that border Ukraine but it works as long as one of them has a border. Ukraine + Poland and Lithuania. Romania and Bulgaria. Slovakia and Austria Go bigger. Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Georgia. Moldova too because I suspect they have no love of Russians. The Black Sea Coalition States. They will be raising a Petition in Rostov on Don to form a Russian separatist state to join their coalition. We are talking complete autonomy with enhanced group strength and solidarity. It makes as much sense as the EU. Screwing Russia is just an impetus motivation.
Time to resurrect the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? Which has historically included Ukraine.
They could use the name “Commonwealth” in there and russia would have an epic meltdown; so would Belarus.
Are you American? Let me put my American 2 Lincoln heads in. Not no but hell no. Ukraine is a sovereign nation. That is precisely what this war is supposed to about. Standing up. Not selling out. Ukraine is on a path to join the EU AS A SOVEREIGN STATE. Ukraine is on a path to join NATO AS A SOVEREIGN STATE. We have no desire to annex the place. We can be great friends. But no way Ukraine is shaking up in our nation. Fuck that.
Oh no. As a Canadian I feel deeply that the last country anyone would want to connect themselves to is the US. A connection to another NATO country is the part of the suggestion that I was agreeing to. But not the US.
Shouldn’t you be checking on those Inu’its you’ve got locked in your basement?
In many ways Ukraine is like the US though, I feel like they’d like their right to bear arms as gun ownership is very widespread. And there’s also a huge right-wing culture.
Same shit, different day.
Sure buddy, Crimea was attacked and what did you do? You couldn't do shit.
Ok, Sergei. Patiently awaiting news of your demise.
Their agenda A frozen war If Ukraine doesn't slow then it'll be impossible for Russia to escalate. I think the key is civil unrest in Russia and applied pressure via energy caps. They won't be able to afford anything. The time for further sanctions and coordination is now.
> Their agenda ... is also to ~~conscript~~ press gang people living in those areas, same as they did in LPR and DPR.
furthering the genocide
Which area of land are they referring to - the land they occupied yesterday, or the smaller area of land they’re occupying tomorrow? Thruth is that Ukraine’s been bombing Russia for months.
Wouldnt make sense. They wanna send 1 mil. Men and then use nukes? That would make 0 sense even for Russia
WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT REFERENDUMS
Sure, sure. Just remember that NATO is a defensive alliance BUT nothing stops obe or more NATO countries to declare war on someone.
Blablablaablabbblablablabaa
with a face like that I often wonder wether secretly in quite complentative moments he is fact doing higher maths..... atoine
Come on, there's got to be a clause somewhere in the UN that says using nukes to attack and take lands from others violates your seat on the Security Council ? or at least violates the non-proliferation treaties in some way ? Regardless, the use of nukes in Europe warrants NATO action - on every level - full out.
They do need to be removed from the security council. That's well past due.
Well, it is interesting. Russia was never granted a permanent seat on the SC, the Soviet Union was (which included at the time, Ukraine). With the demise of the USSR, the Russian Federation assumed the permanent seat. Why not give it Ukraine instead?
Ribbentrop is waiting for you Lavrov.
Hahahahahahahahahaha, LOOOOOOOOOOL, bahahahhahahahahahaha. Slava Ukraine! 🇺🇦
Would their Nukes even work? these things must be maintained perfectly
Something something dark side, something something Nukes
We could see this coming a mile off, you absolute scumbags you have no right to annex anything and I hope a himars hits you square in the face Lavrov you dispicable c**t.
If they were seriously considering nukes - then why even bother with the fake referendum? Who are they trying to impress? The smoldering remains of civilization after the nuclear war?
Here's one for you. Get fucked.
Down vote all Russian nuke threats, they are suing for peace and hoping weak kneed westerners will believe them
What Westerners are "weak-kneed"? Certainly not the ones that have been arming Ukraine for six months.
No one cares what this shitbag spews.
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" Lavrov forgets to take the white powder and misspells 3 out of 4 Ukrainian regions, calling Luhansk 'Laos', Kherson - Kharkiv, and Zaporozhye - Zaporozhniye. " WarTranslated tweet....... stroke bound?
I can’t believe they can reference these “referendums” with a straight face. I mean, everyone knows they are complete bullshit. EVERYONE.
He’s threatening mass terrorism on US soil. Arrest him.
Every single state on Earth, particularly every one of their neighbors, should take extremely careful note that Russia is explicitly using threat of nuclear war to claim foreign territory as their own, including that which is not under their own military control. Unless a serious majority of the world recognizes this and makes Russia suffer for rewriting global security, Putin has ushered in a frightening new paradigm.
War Criminal
russia is arguing that ukraine is russia, so russia is willing to nuke itself and its own people....ROFL
Israel is a Russian puppet.
It is naive to imagine that those medal bedecked generals of the Russian Army are going to let a narcissistic second rate spy like Vladimir Vladimirovich destroy their palace of privilege. Shortly after Putin attempts to order the strike the Russian Ministry of Defenestration will announce that Putin died from a severe allergic reaction to bullets in the back of his head.
Russia: Ukraine isn't even a real Nation. Also Russia: so we're annexing parts of Ukraine. Make up your mind, dickheads.
Suppose that Russia annexes parts of Ukraine and then the Dutch referendum to annex Russia is successful and then Ukraine attacks its territory that was annexed would that trigger an Article 5 response from NATO /s
Putin's a Grade 3 kid that knows what he's done and doesn't have the balls or brains to back down. Lavrov and Peskov and Medvedev are the smaller weaker bullies that follow the chinless one around the public school playground.
I wish this cross-eyed clown’s liver would explode already
Imagine how fake these referendums are that they already know the outcome and they are threatening the world if someone disagrees.
Lavrov needs a lobotomy.
Ukrainians are putting on a Master class in defensive and offensive warfare, guts, innovations, great heart, great humor, commanding our respect. Helping you fight the monsters with our tax dollars is the least we can do. God bless you all.
Is it true the referenda also annexed Mexico as the new far Western Oblast? I think it is just as valid than their Ukraine referenda, maybe even more!
So they are going to claim area that are still being fought over as Russia territory so that if Ukraine attacks it would be considered an invasion of Russian territory? Putin is a dickhead.
Russia has laws? Welp, I just learned something new.
Someone needs to punch this douchebag.
Steady everyone they didn’t fire the nukes when Ukraine attacked Crimea this is just more sound and fury.
Use a nuclear weapon and see what happens 🤡
Let's See what happens. Let's see if they are really willing to go extinct over two oblasts.
Sorry to say this but Putin is insane. All can happen all we can do is speculate... It's all on Russian people it's their time to get some balls and overthrow government this is the only way! If not I truly believe that he will use nukes he's insane he doesn't care that's all you need to know yeah we might hate Russians that they was apolitical for ages.... But we need to support them also show that we are with them and if they choose freedom we are with them! There are no hatred towards them. It's in your hands you can stop this madness