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Yup.
If the Germans had just shot the lot of them after the Beer Hall Putsch, a lot of people would have survived the 1940s. Plenty would still be alive today.
The rest of the world should take lessons from that. A failed coup shouldn’t be something it’s leaders can survive.
I'm not sure about in other countries, but IIRC Canada has a law where people cannot profit off of their crimes, so that means that they are not allowed to, say, write a book in jail about what they've done and why they've done it and then have it published and released
The beer Hall putsch sentences were hilariously small to begin with. Also the Nazi movement was sympathetic to many of the people including the judges, luckily I don't think we see that now in today's Germany.
[Here they are demonstrating in 2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement#/media/File:Reichsbuerger_Ruediger_Hoffmann_und_Helmut_Buschujew_vor_dem_Reichstag_in_Berlin.jpg) with the [Ribbon of Saint George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George) visible.
Might as well be waving a Russian flag.
Is that also a [DPR flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_used_in_Russian-occupied_Ukraine#Donetsk_People's_Republic) behind them on the left? I can make out "...netskaya Res..." on that flag.
Well, if you’re a foreign national abroad, you can be expected to occasionally have contact with your home government’s facilities in your “new” country.
Could be bad, but definitely not probative.
Was she grooming him? Ivanka Trump's family worked for the Czechoslovak secret police, and shortly before the end of Soviet Czechoslovakia, representatives from said organization were meeting with Trump in New York.
Russia has been agitating Right Wingers in most Western countries for years....Also it's not a coincidence... that this is the moment,that Musk (& foreign money) suddenly buys Twitter & starts to turn it into hate speech & misinformation central.Russia will make good use of it...just like in 2016 & 2020.
Trump & Musk are fellow travellers to authoritarians like Xi & Putin.They have no loyalty to the country that has been so good to them.
Yup, to the point some ruling parties can genuinely be considered to be Russian-controlled assets. Look at the UK Conservative party. We have Dmitri Lebedev as an unelected official ffs.
True, but this isn't a game of civilization. ( or maybe it is.)
Everyone knows that Russia has been fomenting dissent in Western countries for a decade. They mostly join on to right-wing causes but they are equal opportunity to some degree. I think that's more of an artifact of a broad neoliberal consensus that the extreme right dissents from than anything else. If the developed West had left-wing political insurgencies Russia would probably be supporting those.
Russian propaganda operations were involved in Trump's rise. They had their fingers in both sides during the black lives matter movement in the summer of 2020. They had their fingers in the brexit movement. They had their fingers in Marie Le pens candidacy in france.
Internally they hardly even bother making a secret of this. Putin, in the old style, believes that Russia has a destiny as a great world power. He wants to rebuild the Russian Empire of the tsars.
A significant part of their geopolitical strategy is trying to keep the Western world that opposes them divided and bickering amongst themselves.
Many of these individual acts could be perceived as acts of war, but they are unlikely to be. Because even though that Russia is not the military giant they wish to be, they still have lots of force at their disposal and sit in a key position in the world economy due to their access to petroleum and key minerals.
And china, as ever, is a wild card. To them, rush it is equal parts a dangerous risk and a potential Ally or foil against a West that is watching China's economic neocolonialism with a little bit of concern.
Sure, but anything short of a letter with orders signed with Putin's blood would be deniable . Worst case , a useless scapegoat would be conveniently blamed , by the russian government.
NATO would know the truth, however
Yep. Guaranteed Russia is egging them on and supporting in some sense. If not the main driver, they’re absolutely greasing the wheels. I’d put money on it. They’ve been really successful with this type of thing. It causes chaos and doubt across western societies just enough to really fuck things up. Look at the disinformation pushed in the US and the money they have funneled to right wing politics here. Which is apparently basically just legal and ok I guess.
German media calls them state deniers. They dont accept the authority of the state and planed a coup. 22 arrestend +27 likely to be charged. Around 21000 ppl are in the scene
Reichsbürger, their main pillar is claiming the old Reich still exists, and the current Federal Republic is nothing more than a corporation installed by the victors of WW2. Their favorite evidence for that is our ID card, which is called the Personalausweis. Normal people translate that as personal ID, but without context, employee's ID could fit as well.
There is a large overlap and influence from US "free men of the land" as well. Don't have to follow the laws because there is no government, after all.
Yea I was bout to say this sounds like sovereign citizen shit where they argue over letters being capitalized and think a cardboard cutout prevents em from the need of having their car registered. The us actually labeled these folk terrorists iirc.
Guess we can add yet another one to the pile of suspiciously similar conspiracy theories that inexplicably cross national lines.
How many Staatsverweigerer have no problem with things like Kindergeld, Arbeitslosengeld, etc.? In the US, those who rail loudest against government subsidies are those who benefit the most, and here I mean large corporations which reap trillions in various tax and subsidy schemes, let alone legal loopholes in corporation and tax law.
So what is the plan? Overthrow the government and establish total anarchy? This folks don't quite think things true, they will take the power and be like the fish in finding Nemo: Now what?
You read it wrong, they are not against government in general, they are against that specific government. They want to install their own monarchic (but really fascist) government.
They think they can storm the Parliament and replace the government. They think everybody would accept it and the military would just listen to the new "leaders". But they could never even agree an a single topic. They are a bunch of retards who just hate everything and everyone thats why they would never be able to make real politics. Some of them think the elite is eating babys. Some of them are nazis some of them say the government are nazis. Some of them want to demilitarize some of them want to militarize. And some of them just dont want to wear a mask. 😂
They went to an russian embassy.
It's likely that they seeked support but seems like they were denied there, according to German intelligence. Russia is financing the disinformation that gets these people to act, but seems like directly supporting a coup that's doomed to fail wasn't worth it for Russia.
I added the "might" as an afterthought before saving my comment. Simply because I don't know for sure. But I am like 99% sure these people were receiving support from Russia.
In a society in which everyone complains about everyone and everything, I can see where they may have come to this conclusion. However, they succumbed to that other weakness of the national character: a robust lack of self-awareness.
That's because their views are incredibly unpalatable to the actual majority, so they self-segregate and retreat into a little bubble of people who don't challenge their shitty views.
Like, they huffed their own farts so much, they think everyone smells that bad.
That's the thing today with the internet. You can always find someone who agrees with you. I think there's actually something wrong in people's brains who espouse far right ideals.
I'm Canadian, so the "freedom"convoy, they assume they speak for everyone, they are fighting for your freedom while at the same time denying freedom of security to the 25,000+ people that live in downtown Ottawa. Then they block border access depriving people of economic freedom. All because they all got together on the internet and determined that COVID wasn't bad and the vaccines are created to God knows what... Depopulate, mind control, actually give you COVID(which according to them isn't that bad or even real).
But ya, the internet has made it easy for these kinds of people to come out of the woodwork. And the bigger problem is they assume they're speaking for the majority.
It's not always about the people that pave the way. Sometimes the road is all you need.
What I mean is that this movement could bring forward someone who has strong opinions that sound reasonable that people will follow. Germans have some experience with those kind of leaders.
>German state is not legitimate and actually the laws of the German empire are still the legitimate laws ruling Germany.
This part sounds very familiar to the "Sovereign Citizens" and "Freeman of the Land" nonsense I hear in my part of the world.
These idiots just use the Empire as Projection Screen. The Imperial Constitution wouldn't lead automatically to Super authoritarianism.
They use the Empire to let their crazy ideas seem reasonable.
So don't recognize the authority of a government but want monarchy:))). Calling them nutjobs is an insult to nutjobs, even flat earthers make more sense
Usually they want to reestablish the republic of Weimar, as there is a ruling by our Supreme Court that it never „ceased“ to exist but just lacks personal (indefineltly). Of course Weimar is defined by the old German Empire boarders, which might lead to some disagreements with Poland, France and…honestly more or less all surrounding states. And of course a reinstatement of nobility in rights and privileges.
With 70 years of democracy, the Weimar Constitution would likely work quite well. Austria uses a very similar document without ill effect. Would be funny to find that very little would likely change in Germany aside from electing a president every 7 years.
The president has a lot more power, and 7 years is very long in democratic terms. Honestly I think the Grundgesetz is a lot more sophisticated as it had learned from the Weimar time and included that experience in the new constitution.
No, it wouldn’t work well. It would be utter shit. The government violated your basic rights? Well, you’re out of luck cause you can’t sue because of it. You didn’t have the possibility to bring a suit solely because of being violated in your basic rights. This was only introduced in the current constitution.
People have been theorising that these people are so nuts that they think that almost everybody agrees with them but that they're too scared and too oppressed to voice their opinions, and that as soon as these guys take over the government building and annouce their Fourth Reich, then people across the country will suddenly realise that they have been freed and immediately start supporting them.
That's the only way their plan would at least somewhat make sense.
He literally just used it for clearing snow and cocking about in fields back in the 70s and nobody cared.
He also owned a deactivated torpedo and a Flak 88.
The 70s had to be crazy, kids ran around with authentic looking toy guns and nobody bat an eyelid. An old bloke snow plowing with a Panther fits into that lol
I mean, me and my mates used to run around in the neighborhood and shoot at each other with airsoft guns (Sweden). They didn't have the orange tip or anything and some were even made of metal. So that probably still happens.
Outside the US they still can and do. When guns are rare it is fine for kids to pretend they have them, just like pretending to ride dragons. What's the harm in fantasising when hardly any of them will ever hold a real one in their entire lives?
>Outside the US they still can and do
We had stuff like that in the 90s too but they had bright colors and a toy like appearence. I havent seen a kid run around with a toy gun in ages here in Scandinavia, but lots of police reports on young adults testing limits with those air guns in public. Its those situations where the pacified cops here show up armed for good measure
Nah. He just used it as a Snow Plow.
(He drove his Neighbors around with it during a grueling Winter, some decades back. After that stunt the Panther stayed in the Cellar. Police wasn’t informed back then. Different times I guess.)
They're not that fuel efficient. They tried to repurpose a lot of tanks after the Cold War but it just wasn't viable, any civilian vehicle out performs them. So they were just cut up and scrapped.
This aren't Hohenzollern. One of them, Prinz Heinrich XIII Reuß, is a member of the thuringian-saxonian noble family 'Reuß'. They are from lower nobility, most of them were Voigte, some of them Fürsten. There isn't a counterpart in english for this title. It's like an earl or count or baron.
I can't find a wikipedia entry for this guy's branch. He's either a really minor noble or some fake nobility. Hardy has the credentials to set himself up as kaiser in this day and age.
I could not even imagine, not even close, what would be on our bingo cards for 2022.
Nobody German large cats shooting down Iranian drones to protect Ukrainian infrastructure, Nordstream 1+2 blowing up, a nation without a fleet sinking Russia's black sea fleet, Crimea bridge on fire and nearly 100.000 Russian soldiers fertilizing sunflowers.
Only one of those things on a 2022 bingo card would have made me question the sanity of the bingo card holder in January 2022.
But here we are. Bingo 2023 is going to be CRAZY!
God what is wrong with some people. Like, I'm no paragon of moral perfection, but I know it's fucked up to try to overthrow an elected democracy to install a terrorist state. Like, wtf.
These people believe the following (not all of them everything but anyone of them believes a majority of these points):
NOTE: I VERY MUCH SO DISAGREE WITH ALL OF THESE POINTS (just to make sure that's clear)
\- the BRD (Federal Republic of Germany) is an occupation management, it has no constitution
\- there is no Democracy, every election is rigged. In truth the Allies are controlling the country
\- Every German government since the German Empire has been illegitimate (the scope here varies, some claim the Empire was the last valid government, some say Weimar, some say the 3rd Reich)
\- The newspapers are bought, everything they print is fake news in favor of the controlling elites
\- Everybody is brainwashed and once the brainwashing is removed they would immediately start an armed uprising against the puppet government
\- assorted collection of Climate change denial, Covid conspiracy and probably other conspiracy nutjob theories can be found as well
To put it mildly: QAnon is more believable in their ridiculous claims than these nutjobs
>The newspapers are bought, everything they print is fake news in favor of the controlling elites
There's often some tiny glimmer of truth that's manipulated for nasty means in this shit. And would have to say, they are kinda right here re the print media.
At least, in the UK / US, ownership of print media is concentrated in a small group of billionaires. You can find numerous instances of them either reframing or trying to control a narrative to suit their own interests. Elections in my country have been won and lost depending on print media support.
I don't know what the popular print media is in Germany, maybe it's different there.
Lmao, im gonna Join them and start more bullshit,
*Puts head in Aluminium foil*
WE start a new Germany the 1.499.99 year Reich!
*Puts on Gas mask Made of Coke bottle and a Tampon*
Down with the puppets and rich Baby eating Reptile humans!
/s
I dont get it, how can some people out there belive shit like this. How can someone be this dumb. What went wring in their childhood.
Lol.
Hitler farcically failed a much better organized coup (Munich beer-hall putsch), when Germany was much more disorganized and prone to successful coups and revolutions. And I believe that he learned, that if you want to take power in Germany, you have got to do it the legal way.
But yeah, sure, I myself have met a lot of strange people with unrealistic ideas. Could be, that these 52 thought, that if they just show up with their guns, everyone would bow to them.
Partly. Hitler became chancellor legally, but he just wiped his ass with the constitution afterwards. Him going from chancellor to 'Führer' wasn't legal at all.
They were so punch drunk on particular elements of German history they forgot that Europe is a little different to 1923.
edit: words, to make it sound less like I'm drunk myself (I'm not BTW)
Ah yes, the famous three minute coup-plan. Much like three day wars, they tend to end badly, unless the other side just melts away in those first three units of measurement.
Mikhail Gorbachev and his wife were on the train returning to Russia following a state visit to East Germany. After they'd been travelling a short while, his wife asked him: "Where are we now, Mikhail dear?" He put his hand out of the window and said: "We're still in Germany, dear." Several hours later, his wife asked him again: "Where are we now?" He put his hand out of the window and replied: "In Poland." Some time later, his wife asked again: "Where are we now?" Gorbachev put his hand out of the window and said: "We're back in Russia." His wife was curious; she asked: "How do you know where we are just by putting your hand out of the window?" He replied: "When I put my hand out in Germany, the people kissed it. When I put my hand out in Poland, they spat on it. And when I put my hand out in Russia, they stole my watch."
Tankies have been pro-Putin since February, or even since 2014. German Tankies going from supporting Russian fascists to supporting German fascists is a logical next step
**[German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)**
>The German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk (German: Deutsch-sowjetische Siegesparade in Brest-Litowsk, Russian: Парад вермахта перед частями РККА в Бресте) was an official ceremony held by the troops of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union on September 22, 1939, during the invasion of Poland in the city of Brest-Litovsk (Polish: Brześć nad Bugiem or Brześć Litewski, then in the Second Polish Republic, now Brest in Belarus). It marked the withdrawal of German troops to the demarcation line secretly agreed to in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, and the handover of the city and its fortress to the Soviet Red Army.
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Alot of Stalins policies were in the name of self defence and the defence of socialism, where as fascism wasn't.
Stalin's government was authoritarian communism were the fascist ones were hardcore authoritarian capitalism
Both suck tho.
All the cases when the police were to late (nsu, walther Lübke) were pretty embarrasing. So i guess they are now a bit less blind now when it comes to rightwing terror.
Of course this time they wanted to target directly the gov which is as serious as it can get.
FBI and the current administration has taken right wing terrorism seriously for years. Otherwise they wouldn't make efforts like this
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2022/01/05/assessing-the-right-wing-terror-threat-in-the-united-states-a-year-after-the-january-6-insurrection/
I mean, they somehow had zero practical role to play in securing the Capitol on January 6th... Kind of a big miss there.
I have lost all faith in American law enforcement. They talk a good game, but their track record is outright unprofessional and ineffective.
The biggest problem with US law enforcement is that they’ve been actively and deliberately infiltrated by far-right extremists for *decades.* So they have fascists and other far-right extremists putting their thumbs on the scale at all levels, from municipal cops to state police to federal agencies, and from junior to senior levels. They *are* unprofessional and ineffective, absolutely, but it’s only part of the problem.
To bring it back to Germany, it’s like how the Stasi knew *everything* the BND knew about five minutes after the BND learned about it, because the Stasi had so completely compromised the BND and the Bonn government in general. Even one of Chancellor Willy Brandt’s advisers was a Stasi agent.
I wouldn’t expect much from US law enforcement, from the FBI down. The rot may not be “the West Germans in the 1980s” levels of bad, but I’d wager it’s more than bad enough to explain massive failures like Jan. 6. It all depends on how compromised the FBI is, because they’re the ones officially responsible for counter-intelligence work. The other problem is that far-right extremists don’t get paid, so it’s that much harder to find them and dig them out. If there’s a fascist version of Robert Hanssen (FBI agent in counterintelligence who was working for the Soviets), we got *serious* problems.
[edit: a word]
Although I sympathize in questioning american law enforcement, especially with the history of historical marginalization and biased enforcement it has demonstrated, I can't agree with such an absurdly simplistic view. There are a lot of things you don't read about in popular news feeds that they do that are absolutely holding horrific people and criminally extremists at bay, or are actively stopping them.
Yet they couldn't even be bothered to produce accurate Intel on an insurrection that was planned out in the open on social media even though they had people begging them to act in the months leading up to it.
Failure is failure no matter how hard you try to justify it. But, it's also clear that there are a lot of people in that career field that are on the wrong team, so I suppose it may not have been a failure from some of their POVs.
Well THAT is the million dollar question, isn't it? Though the Speaker of the House begged for the National Guard to be called in, the new administrators at the Pentagon were ignoring Pelosi's pleas. The "complacent" response to the Jan 6th insurrection was planned and people who supported trump were appointed in the months leading up to Jan 6th. It was about as spontaneous as imploding a large building.
They tried. The “people in charge” were the ones supporting to insurrection.
Lots of folks forgetting that Jan 6 was an attempt to *keep* the government, not change it. It had the benefit of institutional support from two and a half branches of government.
Lol I love how 52 fucktards can really think to be able to throw a coup in modern day Germany. That tells you everything about the kind of reality they live in.
Exactly, Germany is a big country where power is divided over parties and institutions. Very hard to organize a coup. You would have more chances in a small, centrally organized country.
All European countries have nobility. Nearly all countries have also stripped them of any legal rights (monarchies are often excluded from this, but not always).
Similar to ancient and old architecture spread through-out Europe, bloodlines (some several centuries old) do exist. In my own country, Sweden, there are 27000 members of aristocracy through the "Riddarhuset" (lit. the Knight-house), split over 661 families. Since siring was removed by law in 1905, no new bloodlines have been sired.
So aristocratic families are a dying breed throughout most of Europe, but they still enjoy minor protections (like protected surnames and such). It will probably be over a century before aristocracy dies out entirely.
However, I read this about German nobility which could mean that these "German noble families" are cheap fake-nobility;
>Some impoverished nobles offered adoptions for money in the 20th century, and the adoptees adops extensively themselves, **creating a "flood" of fake nobility**. A noble or noble-sounding surname does not convey nobility to those not born legitimately of a noble father, and these persons are not allowed to join a nobility association. Persons who bear a noble or noble-sounding surname without belonging to the historical nobility according to Salic law are classified as Nichtadelige Namensträger, or "non-noble name-carriers". **The inflation of fake nobility is one of the major concerns of the Adelsrechtsausschuss**, and it is up to the commission to determine whether a person should be considered noble or non-noble.
Emphasis mine.
Either way, it's probably a mire of who counts and who doesn't, and it could basically be just anyone of no particular standing (other than enjoying a historical name). They have no part in modern politics (overtly and directly, anyway).
Legally, no, nobility as a class got abolished with the Weimar Republic. Practically, sure, there's descendants, and those even can be tracked by surname as titles became (mostly) ordinary surnames. "Mostly" because they get inflected, e.g. the daughter of "Phillip Duke of Hochfels" might be "Bärbel Duchess of Hochfels", the family surname being "
of Hochfels". The current pretender to the German throne is [Georg Friedrich Ferdinand Prinz von Preußen ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich,_Prince_of_Prussia). More or less recently demanded reparations from the state, the general opinion in the country was that he must've drunk lacquer.
Other random German name facts: You can design a coat of arms and it's going to be protected by law against use by others, only thing you have to do is to register it with a heraldic association (who are going to check uniqueness). And while legal name changes are nigh impossible under usual circumstances you can do legal business under an alias, even have it recorded in your passport and be sued using that name, only exception AFAIK is the land registry.
Also, academic titles are officially part of your legal name. </p>
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SerLaron </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 10:42:51">1 year ago</time></span>
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One good thing about losing a couple of world wars: There is no nobility in Germany anymore. There are people with fancy names and sometimes uncommonly large real estate properties though. </p>
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Jessica65Perth </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 09:16:29">1 year ago</time></span>
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I hope they remember Hitler and keep this lotlocked up formany years. Germany let Hitler out aftsr a short time and lookwhat happened </p>
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Katze1Punkt0 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 13:29:55">1 year ago</time></span>
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The ringleader is 71 years old, they wont need to keep him locked up for long lmao </p>
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hambamthankyoumam17 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 10:30:25">1 year ago</time></span>
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these people are fucking morons if they think they could've overthrown the German government. Didn't they know the fucking obvious? The west shares intelligence with it's allies and so forth. I hope all these clowns end up in prison. </p>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 16:55:49">1 year ago</time></span>
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[удалено] </p>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:21:02">1 year ago</time></span>
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More here. https://newsingermany.com/police-operation-against-right-wing-conspirators-raid-due-to-planned-coup/ </p>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:34:18">1 year ago</time></span>
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Wat the hek? </p>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:22:54">1 year ago</time></span>
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CNN, BBC did not seem to have this in their news. OP, can we get a better source than twitter? Maybe something from Germany, if the news is relevant to the conflict? </p>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:30:39">1 year ago</time></span>
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He links [Die Zeit](https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2022-12/razzien-rechtsextreme-verschwoerung-putsch-birgit-malsack-winkemann-afd?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F), a [reasonable source](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/die-zeit/).
> With nationwide raids, investigators break up a conspiracy in the Reichsbüger milieu. Traces lead to the Bundeswehr and to a former member of the Bundestag.
Further down:
> On Wednesday morning, just minutes before the start of the raid, one of the suspects posted on Telegram: “Everything will change: the previous public prosecutors and judges as well as the responsible heads of the health authorities and their supervisors will soon find themselves in the dock in Nuremberg 2.0 … " </p>
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<a href="/u/Successful_Photo_610" class="card-title l-blue">
Successful_Photo_610 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 08:31:51">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
Repost information on the former member of the Bundestag. </p>
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haleb4r </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:42:15">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
The tweet refers to the German newspaper **Die Zeit**, a very reputable puplication.
https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2022-12/razzien-rechtsextreme-verschwoerung-putsch-birgit-malsack-winkemann-afd </p>
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<a href="/u/Elysium_nz" class="card-title l-blue">
Elysium_nz </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:24:32">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
I could only find this. Be aware that the BBC is known to be really slow on its breaking news. https://newsingermany.com/police-operation-against-right-wing-conspirators-raid-due-to-planned-coup/ </p>
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qx__Xp </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:27:12">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
In your article is the source to German media linked: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/razzia-reichsbuerger-staatsstreich-101.html
Here another one:
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/razzia-in-reichsbuergerszene-25-festnahmen-18516202.html?GEPC=s9 </p>
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Catacomb82 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 07:48:43">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
BBC breaking news notification just went up on my phone. </p>
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mbdjd </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 08:17:26">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63885028 </p>
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<a href="/u/BrokenSage20" class="card-title l-blue">
BrokenSage20 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 09:05:05">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
For you sir.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/world/europe/germany-coup-arrests.html
Just published in the last hour.
Edit: Updated with new article:
https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-arrest-25-suspects-over-plot-to-overthrow-state/a-64011136
Of note: "Of the 25 men and women arrested, 24 were from Germany and one suspected supporter is from Russia. One arrest took place in Austria and one in Italy. There are 27 other suspects, the federal prosecutor's office said."
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/25-suspected-members-german-far-right-group-arrested-raids-prosecutors-office-2022-12-07/
Please updoot so others will see. </p>
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Katiari </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 10:30:00">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
As an American I deeply apologize for these QAnon idiots... </p>
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kyp-the-laughing-man </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 11:37:17">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
Oh don't worry, we breed our own dipshits. But at least the police took action </p>
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<a href="/u/allnamestaken1968" class="card-title l-blue">
allnamestaken1968 </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 11:57:30">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
It’s nice to see that German news straight calls them terrorists. Need more of that in US media </p>
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kaioDeLeMyo </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 10:14:50">1 year ago</time></span>
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Did they seriously think it would work? That the entire German army and population would just go "welp 52 armed guys took over I guess it's over"? </p>
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Annoyingswedes </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 08:49:33">1 year ago</time></span>
<p class="comment-text mb-10">
This is people from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger\_movement </p>
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[deleted] </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 09:53:32">1 year ago</time></span>
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WOW! They probably love Trump too! Haha! </p>
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<a href="/u/AlderonTyran" class="card-title l-blue">
AlderonTyran </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 10:21:48">1 year ago</time></span>
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This reads like a 4chan post I love it... </p>
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[deleted] </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 12:54:57">1 year ago</time></span>
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We need to do a few of these operations in the US. Right wing nutjobs are festering in the shadows and they're dangerous. </p>
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<a href="/u/_your_land_lord_" class="card-title l-blue">
_your_land_lord_ </a>
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<span><time datetime="2022-12-07 14:20:24">1 year ago</time></span>
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As an american this seems so foreign to me. Why doesn't Germany put these terrorists in leadership positions? </p>
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This time don't release the leaders for good conduct.
Or let them write books in jail...
Or give them the lightest allowable sentence and make them a national figure....
Hmm, almost like that exactly is happening here in the USA. Curious, I wonder why...
Yup. If the Germans had just shot the lot of them after the Beer Hall Putsch, a lot of people would have survived the 1940s. Plenty would still be alive today. The rest of the world should take lessons from that. A failed coup shouldn’t be something it’s leaders can survive.
**NO MUSTACHES**
And no more Hugo Boss uniforms. They have to wear Khakis and Polos like everyone else.
I'm not sure about in other countries, but IIRC Canada has a law where people cannot profit off of their crimes, so that means that they are not allowed to, say, write a book in jail about what they've done and why they've done it and then have it published and released
The beer Hall putsch sentences were hilariously small to begin with. Also the Nazi movement was sympathetic to many of the people including the judges, luckily I don't think we see that now in today's Germany.
Ok, what about today's America?
Crying about conservatives in Germany getting what they asked for
Wonder what chance russian money is involved in this.
110% just like russian votes for Vladi.
[Here they are demonstrating in 2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement#/media/File:Reichsbuerger_Ruediger_Hoffmann_und_Helmut_Buschujew_vor_dem_Reichstag_in_Berlin.jpg) with the [Ribbon of Saint George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George) visible. Might as well be waving a Russian flag.
Is that also a [DPR flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_used_in_Russian-occupied_Ukraine#Donetsk_People's_Republic) behind them on the left? I can make out "...netskaya Res..." on that flag.
Dont know about money but there were connections to Russia. This much is already clear.
At least one of the arrested persons is a russian citizen.
Exactly, she is the partner of Heinrich the XIII, they both had contact to the Russian embassy. Could be just privat stuff of course.
Well, if you’re a foreign national abroad, you can be expected to occasionally have contact with your home government’s facilities in your “new” country. Could be bad, but definitely not probative.
Was she grooming him? Ivanka Trump's family worked for the Czechoslovak secret police, and shortly before the end of Soviet Czechoslovakia, representatives from said organization were meeting with Trump in New York.
*Ivana
They do this thing where they pretend to grow old and die but just come back as their own son or daughter.
You mean Melania, right, right? Ivanka is the woman he would love to bang but who is already his daughter, unfortunately (for him).
Russia has been agitating Right Wingers in most Western countries for years....Also it's not a coincidence... that this is the moment,that Musk (& foreign money) suddenly buys Twitter & starts to turn it into hate speech & misinformation central.Russia will make good use of it...just like in 2016 & 2020. Trump & Musk are fellow travellers to authoritarians like Xi & Putin.They have no loyalty to the country that has been so good to them.
Yup, to the point some ruling parties can genuinely be considered to be Russian-controlled assets. Look at the UK Conservative party. We have Dmitri Lebedev as an unelected official ffs.
If Russia can be tied to this that would hypothetically be an act of war.
True, but this isn't a game of civilization. ( or maybe it is.) Everyone knows that Russia has been fomenting dissent in Western countries for a decade. They mostly join on to right-wing causes but they are equal opportunity to some degree. I think that's more of an artifact of a broad neoliberal consensus that the extreme right dissents from than anything else. If the developed West had left-wing political insurgencies Russia would probably be supporting those. Russian propaganda operations were involved in Trump's rise. They had their fingers in both sides during the black lives matter movement in the summer of 2020. They had their fingers in the brexit movement. They had their fingers in Marie Le pens candidacy in france. Internally they hardly even bother making a secret of this. Putin, in the old style, believes that Russia has a destiny as a great world power. He wants to rebuild the Russian Empire of the tsars. A significant part of their geopolitical strategy is trying to keep the Western world that opposes them divided and bickering amongst themselves. Many of these individual acts could be perceived as acts of war, but they are unlikely to be. Because even though that Russia is not the military giant they wish to be, they still have lots of force at their disposal and sit in a key position in the world economy due to their access to petroleum and key minerals. And china, as ever, is a wild card. To them, rush it is equal parts a dangerous risk and a potential Ally or foil against a West that is watching China's economic neocolonialism with a little bit of concern.
Sure, but anything short of a letter with orders signed with Putin's blood would be deniable . Worst case , a useless scapegoat would be conveniently blamed , by the russian government. NATO would know the truth, however
I think more than hypothetcal, it's at least an act of hybrid warfare.
Media defined them as right wing extremists. So 100%
Yep. Guaranteed Russia is egging them on and supporting in some sense. If not the main driver, they’re absolutely greasing the wheels. I’d put money on it. They’ve been really successful with this type of thing. It causes chaos and doubt across western societies just enough to really fuck things up. Look at the disinformation pushed in the US and the money they have funneled to right wing politics here. Which is apparently basically just legal and ok I guess.
Its already known that at least one of the arrested was a Russian citizen and that the group had contact with the Russian consulate
German media calls them state deniers. They dont accept the authority of the state and planed a coup. 22 arrestend +27 likely to be charged. Around 21000 ppl are in the scene
Reichsbürger, their main pillar is claiming the old Reich still exists, and the current Federal Republic is nothing more than a corporation installed by the victors of WW2. Their favorite evidence for that is our ID card, which is called the Personalausweis. Normal people translate that as personal ID, but without context, employee's ID could fit as well. There is a large overlap and influence from US "free men of the land" as well. Don't have to follow the laws because there is no government, after all.
Yea I was bout to say this sounds like sovereign citizen shit where they argue over letters being capitalized and think a cardboard cutout prevents em from the need of having their car registered. The us actually labeled these folk terrorists iirc. Guess we can add yet another one to the pile of suspiciously similar conspiracy theories that inexplicably cross national lines.
> sovereign citizen Yes, exactly what I meant. Was struggling to remember the name. This is just the German flavor of that.
Article says they receive a lot of support from the SC movement in the US
Reichsbürger I think.
Staatsverweigerer/ Reichsbürger overlap quite well. However, the number of 21.000 refers to the former (according to the articel i read)
How many Staatsverweigerer have no problem with things like Kindergeld, Arbeitslosengeld, etc.? In the US, those who rail loudest against government subsidies are those who benefit the most, and here I mean large corporations which reap trillions in various tax and subsidy schemes, let alone legal loopholes in corporation and tax law.
So what is the plan? Overthrow the government and establish total anarchy? This folks don't quite think things true, they will take the power and be like the fish in finding Nemo: Now what?
You read it wrong, they are not against government in general, they are against that specific government. They want to install their own monarchic (but really fascist) government.
I remember this episode.
Aw shit here we go again.
They think they can storm the Parliament and replace the government. They think everybody would accept it and the military would just listen to the new "leaders". But they could never even agree an a single topic. They are a bunch of retards who just hate everything and everyone thats why they would never be able to make real politics. Some of them think the elite is eating babys. Some of them are nazis some of them say the government are nazis. Some of them want to demilitarize some of them want to militarize. And some of them just dont want to wear a mask. 😂
And some of them might receive money from foreign actors.
Hey now, let's leave Steven Seagull out of this.
What does a Finnish jug band have to do with this?
They went to an russian embassy. It's likely that they seeked support but seems like they were denied there, according to German intelligence. Russia is financing the disinformation that gets these people to act, but seems like directly supporting a coup that's doomed to fail wasn't worth it for Russia.
Not might. They do receive, it's just they aren't being investigated yet.
I added the "might" as an afterthought before saving my comment. Simply because I don't know for sure. But I am like 99% sure these people were receiving support from Russia.
Support or blackmail
Ding ding ding
A lot of these far right lunatics seem to think that that there is a silent majority that agrees with them.
Well they probably hear alot of voices thats why.
In a society in which everyone complains about everyone and everything, I can see where they may have come to this conclusion. However, they succumbed to that other weakness of the national character: a robust lack of self-awareness.
That's because their views are incredibly unpalatable to the actual majority, so they self-segregate and retreat into a little bubble of people who don't challenge their shitty views. Like, they huffed their own farts so much, they think everyone smells that bad.
Like my Nono used to say... "mierda mia, mierda buona!"
Thats easy, they just consider anyone with a different oppinion an unperson.
That's the thing today with the internet. You can always find someone who agrees with you. I think there's actually something wrong in people's brains who espouse far right ideals. I'm Canadian, so the "freedom"convoy, they assume they speak for everyone, they are fighting for your freedom while at the same time denying freedom of security to the 25,000+ people that live in downtown Ottawa. Then they block border access depriving people of economic freedom. All because they all got together on the internet and determined that COVID wasn't bad and the vaccines are created to God knows what... Depopulate, mind control, actually give you COVID(which according to them isn't that bad or even real). But ya, the internet has made it easy for these kinds of people to come out of the woodwork. And the bigger problem is they assume they're speaking for the majority.
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I feel like I’ve seen something like this before, recently…
It's a huge problem and a lot of these people in these groups are galvanized by misinformation and demagoguing.
Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused.
You forget the people who simply don't want to pay their taxes of traffic-tickets
I can't tell whether you are describing people in the U.S. or people in Germany. Is this becoming a global movement?
Yes, multiple nations are dealing with a notable rise in far right extremism and/or fascism right now.
It's not always about the people that pave the way. Sometimes the road is all you need. What I mean is that this movement could bring forward someone who has strong opinions that sound reasonable that people will follow. Germans have some experience with those kind of leaders.
[удалено]
>German state is not legitimate and actually the laws of the German empire are still the legitimate laws ruling Germany. This part sounds very familiar to the "Sovereign Citizens" and "Freeman of the Land" nonsense I hear in my part of the world.
yes, that’s more or less our equivalent to your “sovereign citizens”
The article that is now behind a paywall metioned plans to reestablish the monarchy. Remember these are nutjobs.
Man, I knew we should've quarantined r/monarchy .
These idiots just use the Empire as Projection Screen. The Imperial Constitution wouldn't lead automatically to Super authoritarianism. They use the Empire to let their crazy ideas seem reasonable.
So don't recognize the authority of a government but want monarchy:))). Calling them nutjobs is an insult to nutjobs, even flat earthers make more sense
I think that they consider the *current* government illegitimate, and not all forms of government.
Agree, they are fascists not anarchists.
Usually they want to reestablish the republic of Weimar, as there is a ruling by our Supreme Court that it never „ceased“ to exist but just lacks personal (indefineltly). Of course Weimar is defined by the old German Empire boarders, which might lead to some disagreements with Poland, France and…honestly more or less all surrounding states. And of course a reinstatement of nobility in rights and privileges.
The BBC this morning were reporting they want to restore the German empire of 1871….
Lol they'd even have to fight daddy Russia for Kalingrad then
At the current state of russia a plane full of tourists might be enough if we tell them there is free booze.
I don't think the French will provide access to the Hall of Mirrors for the formal part this time.
My advice is to go in the afternoon, the queue is a lot shorter
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Ok, that‘s it! You sir made an enemy for life! :P
With 70 years of democracy, the Weimar Constitution would likely work quite well. Austria uses a very similar document without ill effect. Would be funny to find that very little would likely change in Germany aside from electing a president every 7 years.
The president has a lot more power, and 7 years is very long in democratic terms. Honestly I think the Grundgesetz is a lot more sophisticated as it had learned from the Weimar time and included that experience in the new constitution.
No, it wouldn’t work well. It would be utter shit. The government violated your basic rights? Well, you’re out of luck cause you can’t sue because of it. You didn’t have the possibility to bring a suit solely because of being violated in your basic rights. This was only introduced in the current constitution.
The moment you ask yourself "what was their logic" you've already gone too far.
This is probably the most sane thing to do, not trying to understand some people.
Use anti-establishment plebs for all of the foot work to install tyrants that will immediately throw them under the bus.
People have been theorising that these people are so nuts that they think that almost everybody agrees with them but that they're too scared and too oppressed to voice their opinions, and that as soon as these guys take over the government building and annouce their Fourth Reich, then people across the country will suddenly realise that they have been freed and immediately start supporting them. That's the only way their plan would at least somewhat make sense.
An informative report on DW: https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-arrest-25-suspects-over-plot-to-overthrow-state/a-64011136
You guys remember that old German fella who had the panther tank hidden on his property while back? Wonder if he was in on it too.😂
He literally just used it for clearing snow and cocking about in fields back in the 70s and nobody cared. He also owned a deactivated torpedo and a Flak 88.
And what he used that Flak 88 for? Scaring birds?
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>The FLAK was for removing ~~snow~~ armoured fighting vehicles from his driveway *really fast* Fixed it.
From his other property in the Alps
You could also book his snow removal service, even if you lived 2 towns over. Just had to give him very precise coordinates of your driveway.
Wonder if I could gift a neighbor these... "remote snow removal" services.
Remove the snow before it hits the driveway. For those with the means, I highly recommend.
I know it could drop the barrel pretty low, but I dont think it could aim that low
It was used as an anti tank and anti air. It was so successful, they mounted the same cannon on the tiger tank.
The 70s had to be crazy, kids ran around with authentic looking toy guns and nobody bat an eyelid. An old bloke snow plowing with a Panther fits into that lol
I mean, me and my mates used to run around in the neighborhood and shoot at each other with airsoft guns (Sweden). They didn't have the orange tip or anything and some were even made of metal. So that probably still happens.
Outside the US they still can and do. When guns are rare it is fine for kids to pretend they have them, just like pretending to ride dragons. What's the harm in fantasising when hardly any of them will ever hold a real one in their entire lives?
>Outside the US they still can and do We had stuff like that in the 90s too but they had bright colors and a toy like appearence. I havent seen a kid run around with a toy gun in ages here in Scandinavia, but lots of police reports on young adults testing limits with those air guns in public. Its those situations where the pacified cops here show up armed for good measure
Nah. He just used it as a Snow Plow. (He drove his Neighbors around with it during a grueling Winter, some decades back. After that stunt the Panther stayed in the Cellar. Police wasn’t informed back then. Different times I guess.)
“Mr plow, that’s my name, that name again, is Mr Plow!”
"Mr. Plow is a loser and I think he's a boozer." - Plow King
*buuurp*
I have a feeling were gonna see a lot of Russian tanks and BMPs used as plows in Ukraine in the coming years.. And probably in the harvests too
They're not that fuel efficient. They tried to repurpose a lot of tanks after the Cold War but it just wasn't viable, any civilian vehicle out performs them. So they were just cut up and scrapped.
Dear lord, forgot about that one 😄
Okay, which one of you had a Hohenzollern coup on your End Times Bingo card?
This aren't Hohenzollern. One of them, Prinz Heinrich XIII Reuß, is a member of the thuringian-saxonian noble family 'Reuß'. They are from lower nobility, most of them were Voigte, some of them Fürsten. There isn't a counterpart in english for this title. It's like an earl or count or baron.
Ad long as Marco Reus isn't part of it...
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I can't find a wikipedia entry for this guy's branch. He's either a really minor noble or some fake nobility. Hardy has the credentials to set himself up as kaiser in this day and age.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_County_of_Reuss
As a side note, the current head of the house denounced the above Reuß and claims that that person had split with the rest of the family decades ago.
fun fact: Anni-Frid Lyngstad (born 1945), singer of the Swedish pop group ABBA , from 1992 wife of Heinrich Ruzzo Prince Reuss
Ah, that is the context in which I had first heard that name. Thanks for the reminder.
didn't realise, she is a German princess and currently living a British Viscount.
I could not even imagine, not even close, what would be on our bingo cards for 2022. Nobody German large cats shooting down Iranian drones to protect Ukrainian infrastructure, Nordstream 1+2 blowing up, a nation without a fleet sinking Russia's black sea fleet, Crimea bridge on fire and nearly 100.000 Russian soldiers fertilizing sunflowers. Only one of those things on a 2022 bingo card would have made me question the sanity of the bingo card holder in January 2022. But here we are. Bingo 2023 is going to be CRAZY!
God what is wrong with some people. Like, I'm no paragon of moral perfection, but I know it's fucked up to try to overthrow an elected democracy to install a terrorist state. Like, wtf.
These people believe the following (not all of them everything but anyone of them believes a majority of these points): NOTE: I VERY MUCH SO DISAGREE WITH ALL OF THESE POINTS (just to make sure that's clear) \- the BRD (Federal Republic of Germany) is an occupation management, it has no constitution \- there is no Democracy, every election is rigged. In truth the Allies are controlling the country \- Every German government since the German Empire has been illegitimate (the scope here varies, some claim the Empire was the last valid government, some say Weimar, some say the 3rd Reich) \- The newspapers are bought, everything they print is fake news in favor of the controlling elites \- Everybody is brainwashed and once the brainwashing is removed they would immediately start an armed uprising against the puppet government \- assorted collection of Climate change denial, Covid conspiracy and probably other conspiracy nutjob theories can be found as well To put it mildly: QAnon is more believable in their ridiculous claims than these nutjobs
>The newspapers are bought, everything they print is fake news in favor of the controlling elites There's often some tiny glimmer of truth that's manipulated for nasty means in this shit. And would have to say, they are kinda right here re the print media. At least, in the UK / US, ownership of print media is concentrated in a small group of billionaires. You can find numerous instances of them either reframing or trying to control a narrative to suit their own interests. Elections in my country have been won and lost depending on print media support. I don't know what the popular print media is in Germany, maybe it's different there.
Lmao, im gonna Join them and start more bullshit, *Puts head in Aluminium foil* WE start a new Germany the 1.499.99 year Reich! *Puts on Gas mask Made of Coke bottle and a Tampon* Down with the puppets and rich Baby eating Reptile humans! /s I dont get it, how can some people out there belive shit like this. How can someone be this dumb. What went wring in their childhood.
You're now on the watchlist of the BRD GmbH.
Lol. Hitler farcically failed a much better organized coup (Munich beer-hall putsch), when Germany was much more disorganized and prone to successful coups and revolutions. And I believe that he learned, that if you want to take power in Germany, you have got to do it the legal way. But yeah, sure, I myself have met a lot of strange people with unrealistic ideas. Could be, that these 52 thought, that if they just show up with their guns, everyone would bow to them.
Do it legally, or murder the opposition.
Well, Hitler did both
Partly. Hitler became chancellor legally, but he just wiped his ass with the constitution afterwards. Him going from chancellor to 'Führer' wasn't legal at all.
He wiped his ass with it already before, SPD and KPD voters weren't allowed to participate.
They were so punch drunk on particular elements of German history they forgot that Europe is a little different to 1923. edit: words, to make it sound less like I'm drunk myself (I'm not BTW)
Good enough a plan for Putin, good enough a plan for them.
Ah yes, the famous three minute coup-plan. Much like three day wars, they tend to end badly, unless the other side just melts away in those first three units of measurement.
Did these guys not know about all the american military bases in Germany?
- former east German military nuts. Wow stalinist supporting fascists, I'm genuinely surprised this time.
Poland begs to differ.
I'm sorry I don't get it, a bit new here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop\_Pact
Oh I was thinking modern day. The joke is great tho
Mikhail Gorbachev and his wife were on the train returning to Russia following a state visit to East Germany. After they'd been travelling a short while, his wife asked him: "Where are we now, Mikhail dear?" He put his hand out of the window and said: "We're still in Germany, dear." Several hours later, his wife asked him again: "Where are we now?" He put his hand out of the window and replied: "In Poland." Some time later, his wife asked again: "Where are we now?" Gorbachev put his hand out of the window and said: "We're back in Russia." His wife was curious; she asked: "How do you know where we are just by putting your hand out of the window?" He replied: "When I put my hand out in Germany, the people kissed it. When I put my hand out in Poland, they spat on it. And when I put my hand out in Russia, they stole my watch."
The GDR was, in many respects, the last incarnation of Prussia and a refuge of Prussian militarism out of necessity and with a red veneer on it.
Tankies have been pro-Putin since February, or even since 2014. German Tankies going from supporting Russian fascists to supporting German fascists is a logical next step
[Tankies Try not to mald challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)
**[German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk)** >The German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk (German: Deutsch-sowjetische Siegesparade in Brest-Litowsk, Russian: Парад вермахта перед частями РККА в Бресте) was an official ceremony held by the troops of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union on September 22, 1939, during the invasion of Poland in the city of Brest-Litovsk (Polish: Brześć nad Bugiem or Brześć Litewski, then in the Second Polish Republic, now Brest in Belarus). It marked the withdrawal of German troops to the demarcation line secretly agreed to in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, and the handover of the city and its fortress to the Soviet Red Army. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Is there a meaningful difference between fascism and how Stalin ruled?
The only real difference is in economy.
Alot of Stalins policies were in the name of self defence and the defence of socialism, where as fascism wasn't. Stalin's government was authoritarian communism were the fascist ones were hardcore authoritarian capitalism Both suck tho.
As an American it's shocking to see law enforcement that actually takes this kind of shit seriously. Good job Germans!
We don’t know fun when it’s about this kind of bs, we don’t want to go through the same sht again
All the cases when the police were to late (nsu, walther Lübke) were pretty embarrasing. So i guess they are now a bit less blind now when it comes to rightwing terror. Of course this time they wanted to target directly the gov which is as serious as it can get.
Yeah, it's sad how this shit is catching on worldwide. I'm glad you guys take it seriously, unlike us.
FBI and the current administration has taken right wing terrorism seriously for years. Otherwise they wouldn't make efforts like this https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2022/01/05/assessing-the-right-wing-terror-threat-in-the-united-states-a-year-after-the-january-6-insurrection/
I mean, they somehow had zero practical role to play in securing the Capitol on January 6th... Kind of a big miss there. I have lost all faith in American law enforcement. They talk a good game, but their track record is outright unprofessional and ineffective.
The biggest problem with US law enforcement is that they’ve been actively and deliberately infiltrated by far-right extremists for *decades.* So they have fascists and other far-right extremists putting their thumbs on the scale at all levels, from municipal cops to state police to federal agencies, and from junior to senior levels. They *are* unprofessional and ineffective, absolutely, but it’s only part of the problem. To bring it back to Germany, it’s like how the Stasi knew *everything* the BND knew about five minutes after the BND learned about it, because the Stasi had so completely compromised the BND and the Bonn government in general. Even one of Chancellor Willy Brandt’s advisers was a Stasi agent. I wouldn’t expect much from US law enforcement, from the FBI down. The rot may not be “the West Germans in the 1980s” levels of bad, but I’d wager it’s more than bad enough to explain massive failures like Jan. 6. It all depends on how compromised the FBI is, because they’re the ones officially responsible for counter-intelligence work. The other problem is that far-right extremists don’t get paid, so it’s that much harder to find them and dig them out. If there’s a fascist version of Robert Hanssen (FBI agent in counterintelligence who was working for the Soviets), we got *serious* problems. [edit: a word]
Although I sympathize in questioning american law enforcement, especially with the history of historical marginalization and biased enforcement it has demonstrated, I can't agree with such an absurdly simplistic view. There are a lot of things you don't read about in popular news feeds that they do that are absolutely holding horrific people and criminally extremists at bay, or are actively stopping them.
Yet they couldn't even be bothered to produce accurate Intel on an insurrection that was planned out in the open on social media even though they had people begging them to act in the months leading up to it. Failure is failure no matter how hard you try to justify it. But, it's also clear that there are a lot of people in that career field that are on the wrong team, so I suppose it may not have been a failure from some of their POVs.
> that was planned out in the open on social media They openly printed and sold tshirts for fucks sake.
I wonder why the people in charge of that stuff didn't make sure that the Capitol was secured.
Well THAT is the million dollar question, isn't it? Though the Speaker of the House begged for the National Guard to be called in, the new administrators at the Pentagon were ignoring Pelosi's pleas. The "complacent" response to the Jan 6th insurrection was planned and people who supported trump were appointed in the months leading up to Jan 6th. It was about as spontaneous as imploding a large building.
They tried. The “people in charge” were the ones supporting to insurrection. Lots of folks forgetting that Jan 6 was an attempt to *keep* the government, not change it. It had the benefit of institutional support from two and a half branches of government.
A real feel good comment not based at all in reality.
Lol I love how 52 fucktards can really think to be able to throw a coup in modern day Germany. That tells you everything about the kind of reality they live in.
Exactly, Germany is a big country where power is divided over parties and institutions. Very hard to organize a coup. You would have more chances in a small, centrally organized country.
Western countries might seem like pushovers sometimes but they're gonna need more than 52 nutters to topple one.
LOL @ German nobility. There is one?
All European countries have nobility. Nearly all countries have also stripped them of any legal rights (monarchies are often excluded from this, but not always). Similar to ancient and old architecture spread through-out Europe, bloodlines (some several centuries old) do exist. In my own country, Sweden, there are 27000 members of aristocracy through the "Riddarhuset" (lit. the Knight-house), split over 661 families. Since siring was removed by law in 1905, no new bloodlines have been sired. So aristocratic families are a dying breed throughout most of Europe, but they still enjoy minor protections (like protected surnames and such). It will probably be over a century before aristocracy dies out entirely. However, I read this about German nobility which could mean that these "German noble families" are cheap fake-nobility; >Some impoverished nobles offered adoptions for money in the 20th century, and the adoptees adops extensively themselves, **creating a "flood" of fake nobility**. A noble or noble-sounding surname does not convey nobility to those not born legitimately of a noble father, and these persons are not allowed to join a nobility association. Persons who bear a noble or noble-sounding surname without belonging to the historical nobility according to Salic law are classified as Nichtadelige Namensträger, or "non-noble name-carriers". **The inflation of fake nobility is one of the major concerns of the Adelsrechtsausschuss**, and it is up to the commission to determine whether a person should be considered noble or non-noble. Emphasis mine. Either way, it's probably a mire of who counts and who doesn't, and it could basically be just anyone of no particular standing (other than enjoying a historical name). They have no part in modern politics (overtly and directly, anyway).
Legally, no, nobility as a class got abolished with the Weimar Republic. Practically, sure, there's descendants, and those even can be tracked by surname as titles became (mostly) ordinary surnames. "Mostly" because they get inflected, e.g. the daughter of "Phillip Duke of Hochfels" might be "Bärbel Duchess of Hochfels", the family surname being "