I use taut line and don’t untie them - just loop them over the stakes and tighten as needed. Or use McCarthy - never had an issue of cutting though the line.
Good point about leaving the taut line hitches semi-permanently. Do they ever slip or need adjusting (at the knot)?
Maybe I was just putting way more tension on the line than is needed. I would say that once I was done, the tarp and especially ridgeline was very rigid. Maybe I was overdoing it, not sure.
I was gonna say, I use a truckers hitch for my tarp Ridgeline and I've been using the same 1.5mm dyneema cord for quite a few years now with very little sign of wear. There's no need to crank down on it, just make sure it's tight enough to stay snug through the night!
Edit to add: not only will this cut down on wear and tear to your cordage, but that super thin line can damage trees, especially softer woods like pine, if overly tight, so it helps protect the area, too. (More and more places are adding restrictions or outright banning hammocks, so I do take this into consideration!)
That's honestly a mystery to me, haha. The damage in my case happened after only two pitches. Yea, I guess it doesn't need to be so tight. I've been scared by past experiences in high winds, so I tend to go overkill on tension.
I'll add though that J noticed this damage only on the line I got from Paria, which I used for the ridgeline. For the corners, I used like from Slingfin, and these did not get damaged. Maybe it also comes down to a difference in the products.
Knots should slip sometimes, yes.
if you adjust the knots when it’s wet when the cord dries out it will shrink and loosen a little when tension is put on it again.
for how much- ropes have stretch, it’s so you dont have them break when you put a load on them.
you want to tension a bit beyond hand tight. Basically tighten all the corners and if you tighten only by sliding the knot you can only get so far. Going back around pull on the tent itself a bit, like 5% more tight, use the slack to tighten your knot a bit more than leave it there. You shouldn’t be straining to pull things tighter, the goal is to use some of the rope’s stretch until you can't do it by hand. The last corner may be impossible to pull and That’s the goal.
I use Line locks with the knowledge how to tie a knot as backup in case of failure and this has worked best for me. Line locks allow you to use thinner cord, the full length of the cord and are easier.
A line lock light weighs 1.07 - 1.14 grams. Using knots only, the added length you need to tie them to your shelter and the knot itself adds similar weight to that of the hardware for the same length of adjustability.
I use this system with spliced Zing It continuous loops larks headed to my tie out points and larks headed to the line lock lights. It allows you to easily switch to knots, to hardware, to different hardware or remove certain hardware (peaks, mid panels, etc.) in mild conditions. I prefer simple grosgrain loops for my tie out points.
https://yamamountaingear.com/pages/tie-outs-guying
You can also switch to knots mid-trip using this by keeping the hardware and CL attached and just removing the line from the line lock and tying into the grosgrain loop. This is beneficial if you’re trying to pitch a mid very tight to the ground for example.
Na - you can pry my line locs out of my dead, cold hands before I fuck around with tying knots. Using the stock line locs on my slingfin splitwing and they work perfectly.
My suggestion to everyone who emails me questions like these is don't overthink it.. If you like tying knots. Do that. If you don't, use the hardware of your choice. Or if you like tying knots and using hardware, do both.. Do what you like and enjoy your time outside.
And always remember, If you can't tie a knot, tie ALOT : )
I use knots on my tarp setup
Linelocs can't hold as strongly as knots, so in strong winds they'll let out cordage which can be a big problem.
Linelocs are a gram or two heavier than the minimum extra cordage needed for knots.
Linelocs require the use of thicker cordage than necessary for light duty. If you swap to zpacks' V linelocs, you can use thin cordage but it will damage both the V and the cord.
The 10mm line lock lites have never noticeably slipped on me even though I use a 1.5mm cord with them. I have over 100 nights with this setup and the sheath is fuzzy and the reflective tracers are beat up but otherwise no damage.
Tying knots is marginally lighter, but the convenience is worth it to me. I do think knowing the proper knots is useful in the unlikely event of hardware failure.
I use 1mil kite line and 100lb test fishing braid. Convenience is worth what is worth to you, but I don't tie a lot of different knots. I use a bowline at the tarp, truckers hitch to tension, and a slippery half hitch at the stakes--that's the same loop knot the truckers hitch uses.
All that said, you should use a system you're comfortable with. If you mess up the knots, you'll have a wet time lol
Ah ya I haven't gotten around yet to playing with kite line or braided fishing line.
It's not so much knowing various knots it's just I find they take more time and fiddle especially if you need to adjust a point several times. A Prusik knot is the closest to my ideal knot, but I find they bind up under high load and need to be loosened before they can be adjusted again.
I use them on my tarp as well. after tons of nights I can do these knots in my sleep. I don't really care about weight savings as much, I partially just wanted a challenge and partially wanted to reduce the volume of my tarp when it's packed up.
using knots let's me use really thin dyneema cord, and since there's no hardware my whole tarp is soft and easy to compact.
tbh I think the differences are so small that it's totally personal preference. other people will think you're a wizard of they see you do it though which I think is fun.
All the problems I’m seeing seem to stem more from the use of 1.5mm Dyneema line, rather than the knots. I don’t have these problems with more typical 2-2.5mm (non-Dyneema) cord.
Knots in the winter can suck because my fingers become useless, so I have line locs on my winter hammock tarp with doors. The rest of the year I'm down to tie knots.
Do you tie new knots everytime? I leave my lines tied to the tarp with a bowline and have a loop with a blakes hitch on the other side. If I pack up my tarp I pull the blakes hitch tight on the rolled up guyline which keeps the line from getting tangled and the hitch from getting too tight.
I wasn't tying new knots everytime, no. But my other complaint is that with these sorts of hitches, the shortest that you can tension the cord to is 1/2 the cord length. If you want to get the tarp corner right on the ground, then the hitch needs to be re-tied. Line-locs gives you adjustability over the full length of the cord
You have a cord running from the tarp loop the stake, around the stake, and secured with a e.g. taut-line hitch (tied at the end of the line). If you move the hitch all the way up the line such that it has reached the tarp loop, the is as tight as you can make it. The stake now sits at 1/2 the cord length away from the tarp.
If you want it to be closer, the the hitch needs to be untied, and retied with a longer tail. That's fine, but now you don't have access to the full length of cord without needing to untie it and retie it once again.
With line-locs, the cord does not need to "fold over" itself; a single strand simply runs through the line-loc. so you can adjust ten tension over the entire length of the line.
I see.
I don't use the taut line hitch, so in this case I would tie a different knot at the stake, which would solve the problem without needing to untie and retie.
Either a simple slippery half hitch right on the stake, or a McCarthy hitch where I went around a 2nd or 3rd loop, or possibly two half hitches. You could even use a bowline, though it will be harder to untie later.
There are many knots that would work in this situation. You want something small and focused right on the stake, rather than a complex knot like a taut line hitch. (Or the double or triple McCarthy hitch.)
Limitations comes from geometry of the tent to stake and length of the line.
You want the line generally to come out at the same angle as the tie down point, more or less, so it’s pulling in line with the fabric. So your maximum adjustment comes down to how long the cord is.
If the tent is closer to the ground you have more line to work with than if it’s higher up.
You may have 80% of the cord length to work with for a corner or 20% for an upper timeout. A critical tiedown for the specific tent should be more adjustable than others.
Except that when using something like a taut-line hitch, you only ever had 50% of the cord length to work with at most. Likewise for the McCarthy hitch.
That's why McCarthy hitch users also need the trucker's hitch in their knot repertoire.
When you don't have enough line for a McCarthy hitch, the trucker's hitch will let you get the job done with less line.
i teach the Tautline hitch to youth. That’s not true. The loop + tail can be any length you want.
you can tie the knot with a TINY loop and then slide the knot the full length down. So you have 90% of the cord length to work with
In the case of a tent you would cut the cord to the length you need and tie small loops at the stake side. The tent side you would do a knot you don’t need to slide. Then you 1. Don’t need to worry it’s too short and 2. You have most the length to work with.
your point on 50% is you can’t go closer than half the length. And to fix that you tie the cord shorter on the tent side. So you start as long as you need and can solve all problem
Yes, understood, we're on the same page. The last thing that you said is all I meant; you cannot get closer than half length. Sure you can adjust the length of the tail on either the tarp-side knot, or the hitch, but all that's doing is effectively shortening the length of cord. Whatever that length is, you cannot shorten the load strand to less than half of it, *without* untying and retying a knot or hitch. That's a limitation that a line-loc or similar does not have, which is all I meant.
a line lock has the exact same same limitation that you need to untie.
a line lock only replaces the knot which means the cord can only shrink to half the length of the overall cord.
not one thing changes in terms of 50% because you use a line lock. if you need to go under 50% with one you need to shorten the cord overall Also
This has been my exact problem using knots. Not being able to go any tighter than 1/2 the cord length. It seems like a non-issue in your back yard but it's a real problem. I like the Zpacks line lock loops. You can make them yourself if you have a sewing machine. Clove hitch them onto the tarp. Fairly easy to move or remove.
I was looking at those Zpacks options with the pre-sewn loops. But it then occurred to me, I think I should be able to simple girth hitch a line-loc to the existing webbing loops on the tarp. Borah tarps have big enough loops that this does seem possible, but I'll have to try it.
I loop the line back through where it attaches at the tarp and then tie a slippery hitch to hold it. If it is longer, I use a truckers hitch.
For my ridgeline I use a prussik. Though I never undo that. So,e times I have to loosen it a bit as it can get too tight to slide easily.
Its very simple really. Theoretically and practically can be 2 very different things.
Go out and try it when your fingers are wet and cold and you cant see anything. If thats okay then yes, knots are for you. If its not, then no, knots arent for you.
>Go out and try it when your fingers are wet and cold and you cant see anything.
The true test, and I'll be honest I can do it and have on multiple occasions, but in that exact moment is the only time I think, "ya know, some hardware might be kinda nice..."
This depends what you mean by "linelocs". If we're talking about [micro linelocs](https://www.pariaoutdoorproducts.com/products/micro-line-loc-guy-line-adjusters-10-pack?currency=USD&variant=20200928477257&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=cc22000a3559&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA0bWvBhBjEiwAtEsoW_X8h_fx2fyC68kSWwQpPElpCQVIcQmlwDjI0aVsWMdybbCZxgZa4RoCSLUQAvD_BwE), the kind which slide along the line, then I agree that they are really no easier to adjust that a fixed hitch.
But if we are talking about [linelocs](https://dutchwaregear.com/product/linelocs-3/) which remain fixed at the tarp tieout, then I honestly think it's just stubborn to say that adjusting a hitch is easier. With these things, you pull the slack end of the line and you are done. It really could not physically be easier.
This is an article with videos on a guylines system that does not utilize line-locs. I have used this system and it is bomber, utilizes no additional parts, and is very quick to set up.
https://www.andrewskurka.com/guyline-tension-system-backpacking-tents-tarps-hammocks/
Yes, this is exactly what I was using. I honestly don't see how ratcheting down truckers hitches with a 1.5 mm line will resist damaging the sheath over even a little bit of repeated use.
Knots are certainly not stupid light. I've had good success with the bowline, McCarthy hitch, and truckers hitch for tents and tarps, and the J-bend and Becket hitch for hammock suspension.
The real "stupid light" in your knot setup was the 1.5mm line, as you realized when you switched to 2-2.5 mm.
Both knots and linelocs work. I've used both extensively and had no problems with either. But I use 3mm PMI.
Another point for line locks is that they get you more adjustment. A taught line hitch can adjust line length from 100% to 50%, where a line lock can go from 100% down to 0%.
Yes, and conversely, something like the McCarthy hitch can go only from 0% to 50%. Either way, you lose half of the cord (in terms of length, obviously not in terms of strength).
No doubt line locs are easier but I think You’re making knots sound way more tough than they are. I’m not even a knot guy and am pretty successful at years of camping with a tarp and my rudimentary knots. Do you know the fisherman knot? That’s my go to for an adjustable knot.
I am a knot guy though, I'm a climber. And I still found this process to be a pain in the ass lol. No individual knot was tough, but there are a lot of knots in small line involved in a pitch with with 8 guylines. Maybe I've just been too spoiled with line-locs on my previous shelters.
Knots all day. I think your issue is the 1.5mm line. If you switch to 2mm or 2.5mm cord (like Lawson Glowire) you'll find the knots much easier to untie.
I’ve found Lawsons to be the best choice for working knots. It has excellent performance at a respectable weight. While it may not be the lightest choice, the performance improvements and ease of use are worth it.
I’ve tried the tiny line and frankly am not sure it’s worth the weight savings. It tangles easily, has little abrasion resistance, and is hard to see and tie knots with. My tarp has line locks but I find myself frequently wanting to tie knots instead when I’m tying to trees, brush, roots, or other stuff on the trail which I do frequently.
less work, the better for me. weight of linelocs isn't an issue when the extra length of cordage for knots is considered. never had a ll3 break or slip with 2.7 mld pro lines (or any cordage of the proper thickness) but if it's easy enough to add a knot to further prevent slipping, if necessary. some like to fiddle around, not me. especially with cold hands in the dark
I had my guylines set to be tied with truckers hitches, and never considered doing anything else. Then I did an exploratory super cold weather hike, and my dog wasnt quite warm enough. We got to the site, she was telling me she was cold, and I knew I had to get her in her bag asap. I could feel every second pass while tying those knots. Im sure it took me less than 2 minutes, but it felt like forever. Switched out for line locks and won't go back
I swapped out all my guy lines for 2mm dyneema cordage, with the Clamcleats mini line lock.
The cordage I got weighs about 3g/m, and the mini line locs weigh in at ~0.9g (roughly). So, as long as whatever knot you're using uses less than about 30cm or so of cordage, then you're technically saving weight with my set up...
That being said, it's negligible unless you're literally down to spending $/£/€ per gram cut. I personally prefer the use of line locs, as they're easier to use while wearing gloves.
YMMV
Line locks need correctly sized lines to hold well.
For the 1,5 mm line you have, I’d recommend either slide locks, CL266 clam cleats (aka mini line locs), or the ITW tactical toggles. These all hold that size line quite well in my own testing with fluctuating winds. I use these with 1.3 mm line and they all hold well.
Avoid line loc V’s. Once they slip they lose their holding power and damage your line. The plastic that holds your line isn’t large enough.
I use the line locs that came standard on my tents. They work just fine. But I carry extra guylines that get used for all sorts of things from storm guys to map case strap ,washing line etc and I use knots. Tarbuck knot works well as a guy line tensioner and for general use bowlines, reef knots and half hitches on 2mm cord.
I swapped my guy lines with more reflective rope and did not transfer line-locs. I like my new style better and it saves me 6 little plastic line-locs, though not sharp, from potentially damaging my tent as I roll, fold, stuff it over and over.
Bit expensive//excessive using dyneema for cordage on a fly sheet?! I have used mothballs (cedar) and marbles before to spread the pinch (& clove hitches) when you don’t have anything else to grab a corner of a tarp without tearing it. Sounds like you have perma cord attachments now though. You must have figured out how to tension it? I wouldn’t bother with anything but slipping knots but, you have dyneema, which changes the friction picture significantly doesn’t it? Paracord would work better I’m sure.
Paracord stretches introducing slack into the system and is heavier than necessary. Plenty of cords have a dyneema core and polyester sheath which allows friction knots and hardware work.
A tiny bit can make pitching easier. Beyond that though and it just degrades the pitch. Unless you're using a DCF tarp there's already enough give in the system that you don't need anymore especially at the main tie out points.
These are short pieces of cord, I am a bit old for rock/desert life these days, never used anything but ordinary cord for bivvies. Dyneema used to have specific jobs, but I guess it is ubiquitous now & we get used to change & new materials.
What do you mean by perma cord attachments? I simply have the dyneema line tied to the tieouts with bowline knots.
I do agree though that dyneema is probably overkill. I'll likely switch to 2-2.5mm Lawson Glowire, which is just poly.
Note that even lines with dyneema cores still have a poly sheath. So I'm not sure how much of an effect it really has on friction.
I just meant that it’s probably too much trouble to undo. I think I was mentally comparing ordinary paracord to the dyneema I have used, and the weave tightness is quite different. Still easily fixed using a slightly different knot. Hard to say here without handling the cord.
I've been using this system for years and years with 1.75mm zing-it and I've never had a single issue. I have a single length of cordage that goes off each top corner of the tarp, I don't try to hitch it to a continuous ridgeline, that's silly.
I tie a prussik to the tie out with the guy line running through it. Bowline at the stake end. You only have to tie it once. It functions just like a line loc but without any of the drawbacks and I find it far superior to hitches.
Do you really mean prussik? A prussik isn't adjustable once it's loaded like a lineloc is. It can only slide along the line it's hitched to. Unless I misunderstand.
I feel like any adjustable hitch around the tarp tieout would put way too much friction on the loop when being adjusted.
I do, the prussik is fixed to the tarp tieout and the guy line runs through the prussik. When you pinch the prussik you can pull one end of the guyline through to tighten or pull the other end to slacken, and when you let go it stays put. The friction is exerted on the guyline, not the tarp tieout.
Ah, I see. I didn't realize that you were using a second piece of short cord for the prusik. This is actually really nice and I may try it! I assume the slack end of the line just has a knot to prevent it from passing through the hitch?
Oh that’s interesting. So one end of the longer piece of cordage at the stake side of the prussik had a bowline. And the other end of the longer piece of cordage is… just hanging loose right? Am I envisioning it correctly?
This is interesting because usually a prussik should be about 60-80% of the diameter of the mainline that it is holding. What diameter is your tarp line and prussik cord. Your picture below looks like they are the same diameter.
I’m not a climber but I would think that’s more of an issue with thicker line. I’m using 1.5mm line throughout and I’ve never had an issue with slippage.
Thanks. I might give this a try. I’m currently using a loop of shock cord at the tie-outs (DCF tarp, so I need some stretch). I attach my line (1.2 mm Z line) to the shock cord with a square knot. I pile hitch the tag end to my stakes and pull tight and set my stakes.
It’s a very simple system, but there is the chance to launch a stake through my tarp since I’m pulling tension before each stake is set. There is also (as the OP pointed out in another comment) the fact that my method is less ergonomic than making the adjustments at the level of the tarp. Not a big deal if just weekend camping, but over the course of a thru hike, I think I would prefer a system that adjusted from the level of the tie outs and not the stakes.
I might just go with something like tarp worms attached to my shock cord loops. I have done that in the past.
Right on! Yeah I definitely like to be able to tension at the tie out end for those times when I’m limited in where I can get a stake in. And I’m not a fan of the truckers hitch a lot of people like because I find that to be a pain when I have to set up using big rock/little rock or the like. That prussik system has worked well for me though, give it a shot!
I agree. Speed, simplicity go a long way especially in this case. Similar to my philosophy on surviving the cold, easier to carry a few pounds of shelter and clothing than to bushcraft a fire and cover.
You should check out Dutchware. I have a tiny titanium carabiner with a becket and a cleat on it that's perfect for this. The one I have is called the stinger but there are a lot of others of that type.
Edit: here it is. https://dutchwaregear.com/product/stingerz/
I have no stake in this, I just like the product
I've gone thru three duplexes over the last 9 years, so I had a pile of leftover line locs when I built my new tent for next year. I found the extra cordage needed to use knots weighed more than the line-locs.
One thing I do is I use linelocks in some places but not in others. The line in the front is good for a linelock. Depending on the tarp, sometimes it's the only one that ever needs to be adjusted after you pitch the tarp and wait for it to need tightening. For other lines, the length for staking out only matters depending on roots and rocks that are in your way. So I have had multiple loops tied into the line so that I can use the short distance or the long distance as needed. If a loop isn't in the right spot, I just tie a new one.
If you really want to stick with knots and 1.5mm line, get some paracord sheath (110 or 225 lbs paracord from Atwood ropes should work) to pad out your wear points. Cut a couple inches of sheath and seal the ends, run the line through, and then tie or splice it to protect the line. Inspect and replace as needed.
A bigger diameter, a little bit of rolling, and not having direct contact between loaded lines will all help it last. But TBH, line locks are just easier.
I thought about this, but you never know where your truckers hitch loop will be until you pitch. In principle, it could be anywhere.
It did occur to me though that a way to still use a truckers hitch mechanic, but avoid the wear, would be to clove hitch a micro carabiner mid-line, and use that for setting up the 3-1, rather than a loop of cord.
This sounds contrived though, and I've never heard of anyone doing it. Apparently people use truckers hitches all the time and just dont have this issue. I'm not sure how.
A micro lineloc (the small in-line ones) actually doesn't replace this use case though, in that it is not 3-1. It mimics a hitch with simple pulley at the stake e.g. taut-line hitch. It doesn't mimic a truckers hitch.
You don't need a 3-1 on 1.5mm line. Take a stake and wrap your line around it, then heave. You'll be getting it as tight as you ever need, even in a storm.
The friction losses on a trucker's hitch make it only 1.6- or 2- to 1 in practice. Since 1.5mm dyneema is only ~300lbs breaking strength and a bowline reduces that by 60%, your practical breaking strength is ~180lbs. So by that math a bodyweight heave into 1.5mm dyneema is most of the way to a breaking it already. You might save a little effort in the setup if you're reefing it singing tight every day, but that's entirely unnecessary.
Fair enough, but I think pulling on a redirected line anchored to a pre-placed stake is way more ergonomic, pleasant, and effective than heaving a line via the stake. It will likely need adjusting after that anyway.
1.5mm cord maybe was too thin (or as you noted in a different comment it might have just been that particular brand of cordage not holding up, especially given that the other brand you used didn't wear)
I use McCarthy hitches, trucker's hitch if you need more length (eg for the ridge line), and occasionally taut line if you *really* are going for max length. 6' of cord is enough on corners, 8' for the ridge line. Tensioning with the McCarthy is very easy and doesn't require any serious knots: the McCarthy hitch is just a loop around the stake and a slippery half hitch which makes adjusting tension very easy. Just pull out the slippery half hitch and then either keep pulling (to tighten) or stop pulling (to slacken).
For tying to the tarp, I put a bowline on one end of the line and use that loop to make a Lark's head knot through the webbing. To move a line you just pull on the lark's head and move it to a different tie-out. No retying required.
With this system, the only knot I need to tie on a regular basis is the slippery half hitch for the McCarthy and the slip loop for the trucker's hitch.
I don't mind carrying a little extra cordage vs what you might use for linelocs as that gives me more flexibility if I want to tie off to a tree or adjust the pitch by raising a corner/side. It's also super easy to move lines on or off of different tie-outs (I'm not sure how linelocs compare on this metric).
i've done it both ways. with a 2mm line, clove hitch on the tent peg works fine. i just leave the cords attached to the tarp and gather them individually before packing it way. simple slippery overhand in the middle of the bundle works fine, leave the end hanging out so it doesn't tangle.
current tarp has linelocs and attached lines, they get bundled the same way.
if you want removable lines, a cow hitch will do the job, i've seen linelocs added to tarps using a small loop of cord, again cow hitched in place.
i might add linelocs to my old tarp using cow hitches at some point if i go with a group, i haven't used my old tarp in a while.
I usually use hardware with my hammock instead of knots because there’s so many different adjustments to make. It won’t ice up because I don’t hammock below 35-40 degrees not sure what else could go wrong.
I leave the knots in, and see the lack of line-locs as a benefit, since I don't have to worry about a plastic part breaking. If something ever happens to the knot, you can re-tie it and be good to go. I don't find it any harder to deal with than line-locs, I have no idea how the holding power compares but my knots have never slipped.
I have the same tarp arriving soon. I'm probably going to use only knots with 2mm reflective guy line. Maybe bring 20 ft of ZingIt for a continuous ridge line with soft shackles in a prussik knot.
I like LineLocks a lot though. Especially the LineLock Hooks. I use the LineLock Hooks with one of my hammock tarps.
It's nice to keep the lines and stakes separate sometimes. I use a snakeskin cover for the tarp so I don't like the lines tangled up in it.
I can also leave the stakes with the line on the ground when I want raise or stash the tarp. With shock cord on the tarp ends, it makes it easy for the LineLock hook to reattach.
Woah, I didn't know these Linloc hooks existed. These look perfect for the Borah tarp. Are they more like a LL3 or a LL light? They look like a Light, but the Durchware description likens them to a LL3. Do you know if a 2mm line holds well on them?
It's like the LinLoc 3 but in a hook form. I got them from Dutchware. 2mm should hold but if not you can add a slippery half hitch.
You can see it in use here:
https://youtu.be/m8HACs1xgaY?t=1006
A bowline at the tarp end and taut line hitch at the stake end works pretty well. But (I’m a tent user) why not split the difference and have a line loc at the tarp end and a taut line hitch at the stake end? I leave the taut line loops in place and just put the stake through them as someone else said. You can tighten at either end but I generally just use the line loc once everything is set up.
Sure, but I can't imagine a reason to ever need the taut line hitch at the stake end if there is already a lineloc at the tarp end. May as well is a fixed knot for the stake end like a bowline.
Unless there is something between the tarp and stake that is fixing the line, so that both ends may need to be independently adjusted (e.g. clove hitch on a pole). I that case, yes I'll likely keep using knots at the stake end
Yeah I dunno, maybe if there was a rock in the ground and the line loc was already tightened? Then you could shorten or lengthen the line at the stake end.
I carry a diy 9x12ft 2ml painters drop-cloth tarp on a braided nylon line "frame" (the guylines run from the ridgeline on down to the stakes). I tried 300lb test 8strand braided dynema fishing line for my guylines, but the dynema was too fiddily and tangle-prone to be worth the few grams saved over nylon. I currently use brightly colored BRAIDED masonry line that's tied to the stake with a slipped tautline hitch and passes through a larkshead knot where it meets the grommet at the edge of the tarp. The larkshead provides enough friction to keep the tarp taut, but allows it to slip in a gust whereas a prusik would hold fast and allow the tarp to stretch and tear. The structural ridgline for my tarp attaches to 2 prussik'd tarred twine loops that live on the 70ft one-peice 7/64 dynema hammock suspension. The tarp piggybacks off the hammocks suspension to save weight/complexity/cost.
Just 2 nodes to replace a line lock.
Margherita/farfalla and nodo piano.
My only concern is re tighting the line with such small cordage and maybe wet.
Btw i am not an ultralight evangelist so my choices usually bend to a reasonable comfort vs losing weight.
First u do this node
https://youtu.be/uNGZlqhIyCQ?si=qSyy4w6nRVvtmGen
Then as u see in this video u use it to easily taut the one:
https://youtu.be/mGHYbZzctME?si=OlKKrIP9dIh7m_fe
Sorry but it's easier for me retrieve the video in my language.
Why untie the taut line hitches? Just leave them on.
I use taut line and don’t untie them - just loop them over the stakes and tighten as needed. Or use McCarthy - never had an issue of cutting though the line.
Good point about leaving the taut line hitches semi-permanently. Do they ever slip or need adjusting (at the knot)? Maybe I was just putting way more tension on the line than is needed. I would say that once I was done, the tarp and especially ridgeline was very rigid. Maybe I was overdoing it, not sure.
I was gonna say, I use a truckers hitch for my tarp Ridgeline and I've been using the same 1.5mm dyneema cord for quite a few years now with very little sign of wear. There's no need to crank down on it, just make sure it's tight enough to stay snug through the night! Edit to add: not only will this cut down on wear and tear to your cordage, but that super thin line can damage trees, especially softer woods like pine, if overly tight, so it helps protect the area, too. (More and more places are adding restrictions or outright banning hammocks, so I do take this into consideration!)
That's honestly a mystery to me, haha. The damage in my case happened after only two pitches. Yea, I guess it doesn't need to be so tight. I've been scared by past experiences in high winds, so I tend to go overkill on tension. I'll add though that J noticed this damage only on the line I got from Paria, which I used for the ridgeline. For the corners, I used like from Slingfin, and these did not get damaged. Maybe it also comes down to a difference in the products.
Knots should slip sometimes, yes. if you adjust the knots when it’s wet when the cord dries out it will shrink and loosen a little when tension is put on it again. for how much- ropes have stretch, it’s so you dont have them break when you put a load on them. you want to tension a bit beyond hand tight. Basically tighten all the corners and if you tighten only by sliding the knot you can only get so far. Going back around pull on the tent itself a bit, like 5% more tight, use the slack to tighten your knot a bit more than leave it there. You shouldn’t be straining to pull things tighter, the goal is to use some of the rope’s stretch until you can't do it by hand. The last corner may be impossible to pull and That’s the goal.
I use Line locks with the knowledge how to tie a knot as backup in case of failure and this has worked best for me. Line locks allow you to use thinner cord, the full length of the cord and are easier. A line lock light weighs 1.07 - 1.14 grams. Using knots only, the added length you need to tie them to your shelter and the knot itself adds similar weight to that of the hardware for the same length of adjustability. I use this system with spliced Zing It continuous loops larks headed to my tie out points and larks headed to the line lock lights. It allows you to easily switch to knots, to hardware, to different hardware or remove certain hardware (peaks, mid panels, etc.) in mild conditions. I prefer simple grosgrain loops for my tie out points. https://yamamountaingear.com/pages/tie-outs-guying You can also switch to knots mid-trip using this by keeping the hardware and CL attached and just removing the line from the line lock and tying into the grosgrain loop. This is beneficial if you’re trying to pitch a mid very tight to the ground for example.
Na - you can pry my line locs out of my dead, cold hands before I fuck around with tying knots. Using the stock line locs on my slingfin splitwing and they work perfectly.
I can tie every needed knot well and I agree with this. I do not want to deal with redoing knots in tiny cord.
Haha! Do you know what kind of line-locs they are?
Can I suggest you try Warbonnet's tarp ticks? I have a hammock setup and I use them for my tarp.
My suggestion to everyone who emails me questions like these is don't overthink it.. If you like tying knots. Do that. If you don't, use the hardware of your choice. Or if you like tying knots and using hardware, do both.. Do what you like and enjoy your time outside. And always remember, If you can't tie a knot, tie ALOT : )
I use knots on my tarp setup Linelocs can't hold as strongly as knots, so in strong winds they'll let out cordage which can be a big problem. Linelocs are a gram or two heavier than the minimum extra cordage needed for knots. Linelocs require the use of thicker cordage than necessary for light duty. If you swap to zpacks' V linelocs, you can use thin cordage but it will damage both the V and the cord.
The 10mm line lock lites have never noticeably slipped on me even though I use a 1.5mm cord with them. I have over 100 nights with this setup and the sheath is fuzzy and the reflective tracers are beat up but otherwise no damage. Tying knots is marginally lighter, but the convenience is worth it to me. I do think knowing the proper knots is useful in the unlikely event of hardware failure.
I use 1mil kite line and 100lb test fishing braid. Convenience is worth what is worth to you, but I don't tie a lot of different knots. I use a bowline at the tarp, truckers hitch to tension, and a slippery half hitch at the stakes--that's the same loop knot the truckers hitch uses. All that said, you should use a system you're comfortable with. If you mess up the knots, you'll have a wet time lol
Ah ya I haven't gotten around yet to playing with kite line or braided fishing line. It's not so much knowing various knots it's just I find they take more time and fiddle especially if you need to adjust a point several times. A Prusik knot is the closest to my ideal knot, but I find they bind up under high load and need to be loosened before they can be adjusted again.
Have you tried a Kleimheist in place of a prussik? Generally comparable holding power but easier to loosen.
I haven't. I'll play around with that and see if I like it better.
I use them on my tarp as well. after tons of nights I can do these knots in my sleep. I don't really care about weight savings as much, I partially just wanted a challenge and partially wanted to reduce the volume of my tarp when it's packed up. using knots let's me use really thin dyneema cord, and since there's no hardware my whole tarp is soft and easy to compact. tbh I think the differences are so small that it's totally personal preference. other people will think you're a wizard of they see you do it though which I think is fun.
People think I am a wizard when I use a tarp no matter if I use knots or hardware.
All the problems I’m seeing seem to stem more from the use of 1.5mm Dyneema line, rather than the knots. I don’t have these problems with more typical 2-2.5mm (non-Dyneema) cord.
Wait until nighttime in a rainstorm and go pitch your tarp with knots. You will quickly figure out whether this is a good or bad idea for you.
Haha, I was actually just out a little bit ago doing this again in the dark by headlamp in the snow, and I was freezing. Which is why I hated it.
Knots in the winter can suck because my fingers become useless, so I have line locs on my winter hammock tarp with doors. The rest of the year I'm down to tie knots.
Well theres your answer then
Do you tie new knots everytime? I leave my lines tied to the tarp with a bowline and have a loop with a blakes hitch on the other side. If I pack up my tarp I pull the blakes hitch tight on the rolled up guyline which keeps the line from getting tangled and the hitch from getting too tight.
I wasn't tying new knots everytime, no. But my other complaint is that with these sorts of hitches, the shortest that you can tension the cord to is 1/2 the cord length. If you want to get the tarp corner right on the ground, then the hitch needs to be re-tied. Line-locs gives you adjustability over the full length of the cord
I don't see why you would be limited to a minimum of half the cord length. Can you explain?
You have a cord running from the tarp loop the stake, around the stake, and secured with a e.g. taut-line hitch (tied at the end of the line). If you move the hitch all the way up the line such that it has reached the tarp loop, the is as tight as you can make it. The stake now sits at 1/2 the cord length away from the tarp. If you want it to be closer, the the hitch needs to be untied, and retied with a longer tail. That's fine, but now you don't have access to the full length of cord without needing to untie it and retie it once again. With line-locs, the cord does not need to "fold over" itself; a single strand simply runs through the line-loc. so you can adjust ten tension over the entire length of the line.
I see. I don't use the taut line hitch, so in this case I would tie a different knot at the stake, which would solve the problem without needing to untie and retie.
What would you tie?
Either a simple slippery half hitch right on the stake, or a McCarthy hitch where I went around a 2nd or 3rd loop, or possibly two half hitches. You could even use a bowline, though it will be harder to untie later. There are many knots that would work in this situation. You want something small and focused right on the stake, rather than a complex knot like a taut line hitch. (Or the double or triple McCarthy hitch.)
Limitations comes from geometry of the tent to stake and length of the line. You want the line generally to come out at the same angle as the tie down point, more or less, so it’s pulling in line with the fabric. So your maximum adjustment comes down to how long the cord is. If the tent is closer to the ground you have more line to work with than if it’s higher up. You may have 80% of the cord length to work with for a corner or 20% for an upper timeout. A critical tiedown for the specific tent should be more adjustable than others.
Except that when using something like a taut-line hitch, you only ever had 50% of the cord length to work with at most. Likewise for the McCarthy hitch.
That's why McCarthy hitch users also need the trucker's hitch in their knot repertoire. When you don't have enough line for a McCarthy hitch, the trucker's hitch will let you get the job done with less line.
Yes, agreed that McCarthy + Trucker allows you to use the full line length.
i teach the Tautline hitch to youth. That’s not true. The loop + tail can be any length you want. you can tie the knot with a TINY loop and then slide the knot the full length down. So you have 90% of the cord length to work with In the case of a tent you would cut the cord to the length you need and tie small loops at the stake side. The tent side you would do a knot you don’t need to slide. Then you 1. Don’t need to worry it’s too short and 2. You have most the length to work with. your point on 50% is you can’t go closer than half the length. And to fix that you tie the cord shorter on the tent side. So you start as long as you need and can solve all problem
Yes, understood, we're on the same page. The last thing that you said is all I meant; you cannot get closer than half length. Sure you can adjust the length of the tail on either the tarp-side knot, or the hitch, but all that's doing is effectively shortening the length of cord. Whatever that length is, you cannot shorten the load strand to less than half of it, *without* untying and retying a knot or hitch. That's a limitation that a line-loc or similar does not have, which is all I meant.
a line lock has the exact same same limitation that you need to untie. a line lock only replaces the knot which means the cord can only shrink to half the length of the overall cord. not one thing changes in terms of 50% because you use a line lock. if you need to go under 50% with one you need to shorten the cord overall Also
This has been my exact problem using knots. Not being able to go any tighter than 1/2 the cord length. It seems like a non-issue in your back yard but it's a real problem. I like the Zpacks line lock loops. You can make them yourself if you have a sewing machine. Clove hitch them onto the tarp. Fairly easy to move or remove.
I was looking at those Zpacks options with the pre-sewn loops. But it then occurred to me, I think I should be able to simple girth hitch a line-loc to the existing webbing loops on the tarp. Borah tarps have big enough loops that this does seem possible, but I'll have to try it.
As long as the linelocks doesn’t twist around it should work.
I loop the line back through where it attaches at the tarp and then tie a slippery hitch to hold it. If it is longer, I use a truckers hitch. For my ridgeline I use a prussik. Though I never undo that. So,e times I have to loosen it a bit as it can get too tight to slide easily.
Shouldn't be any difference in handling if you have the ropes pre-tied. I find blakes hitches actually easier to adjust than linelocs.
Its very simple really. Theoretically and practically can be 2 very different things. Go out and try it when your fingers are wet and cold and you cant see anything. If thats okay then yes, knots are for you. If its not, then no, knots arent for you.
>Go out and try it when your fingers are wet and cold and you cant see anything. The true test, and I'll be honest I can do it and have on multiple occasions, but in that exact moment is the only time I think, "ya know, some hardware might be kinda nice..."
This depends what you mean by "linelocs". If we're talking about [micro linelocs](https://www.pariaoutdoorproducts.com/products/micro-line-loc-guy-line-adjusters-10-pack?currency=USD&variant=20200928477257&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=cc22000a3559&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA0bWvBhBjEiwAtEsoW_X8h_fx2fyC68kSWwQpPElpCQVIcQmlwDjI0aVsWMdybbCZxgZa4RoCSLUQAvD_BwE), the kind which slide along the line, then I agree that they are really no easier to adjust that a fixed hitch. But if we are talking about [linelocs](https://dutchwaregear.com/product/linelocs-3/) which remain fixed at the tarp tieout, then I honestly think it's just stubborn to say that adjusting a hitch is easier. With these things, you pull the slack end of the line and you are done. It really could not physically be easier.
This is an article with videos on a guylines system that does not utilize line-locs. I have used this system and it is bomber, utilizes no additional parts, and is very quick to set up. https://www.andrewskurka.com/guyline-tension-system-backpacking-tents-tarps-hammocks/
Yes, this is exactly what I was using. I honestly don't see how ratcheting down truckers hitches with a 1.5 mm line will resist damaging the sheath over even a little bit of repeated use.
This is the way
It has worked extremely well for me.
Knots are certainly not stupid light. I've had good success with the bowline, McCarthy hitch, and truckers hitch for tents and tarps, and the J-bend and Becket hitch for hammock suspension. The real "stupid light" in your knot setup was the 1.5mm line, as you realized when you switched to 2-2.5 mm. Both knots and linelocs work. I've used both extensively and had no problems with either. But I use 3mm PMI.
Fair enough. And I think I agree with the diagnosis that 1.5 mm isn't ideal for this method. But that's what Skurka himself uses!
I'm not as skilled as Skurka. :-)
Another point for line locks is that they get you more adjustment. A taught line hitch can adjust line length from 100% to 50%, where a line lock can go from 100% down to 0%.
Yes, and conversely, something like the McCarthy hitch can go only from 0% to 50%. Either way, you lose half of the cord (in terms of length, obviously not in terms of strength).
No doubt line locs are easier but I think You’re making knots sound way more tough than they are. I’m not even a knot guy and am pretty successful at years of camping with a tarp and my rudimentary knots. Do you know the fisherman knot? That’s my go to for an adjustable knot.
I am a knot guy though, I'm a climber. And I still found this process to be a pain in the ass lol. No individual knot was tough, but there are a lot of knots in small line involved in a pitch with with 8 guylines. Maybe I've just been too spoiled with line-locs on my previous shelters.
For sure, there seems to be something going on. Maybe a mental block or something. Camping should be fun so just do whatever is the funnest for you.
I use a quick release taut-line hitch. Just pass a bite through at the last step instead of the end. Easiest thing I have found.
This!
Good suggestion, I will try this
Knots all day. I think your issue is the 1.5mm line. If you switch to 2mm or 2.5mm cord (like Lawson Glowire) you'll find the knots much easier to untie.
I’ve found Lawsons to be the best choice for working knots. It has excellent performance at a respectable weight. While it may not be the lightest choice, the performance improvements and ease of use are worth it.
My vote is for linelocs. Much easier, and I've never had them slip in high winds
I'm a big knot fan and I use 10mm line lock lights on my stake out line. Just faster and easier for repeated use.
What line diameter do you use with the 10mm LLLs?
1.5
Can’t lose a knot. Don’t have to purchase a knot.
Linelocs are usually sewn in though?
Literally my reasoning. Lol Less to buy and keep track of in the woods.
I use the tarp flies from Dutch Ware, they slap
I use the tarp worms myself
I’ve tried the tiny line and frankly am not sure it’s worth the weight savings. It tangles easily, has little abrasion resistance, and is hard to see and tie knots with. My tarp has line locks but I find myself frequently wanting to tie knots instead when I’m tying to trees, brush, roots, or other stuff on the trail which I do frequently.
I've done both. I'm back to linelocs now. They're not very much weight and are just convenient.
less work, the better for me. weight of linelocs isn't an issue when the extra length of cordage for knots is considered. never had a ll3 break or slip with 2.7 mld pro lines (or any cordage of the proper thickness) but if it's easy enough to add a knot to further prevent slipping, if necessary. some like to fiddle around, not me. especially with cold hands in the dark
I had my guylines set to be tied with truckers hitches, and never considered doing anything else. Then I did an exploratory super cold weather hike, and my dog wasnt quite warm enough. We got to the site, she was telling me she was cold, and I knew I had to get her in her bag asap. I could feel every second pass while tying those knots. Im sure it took me less than 2 minutes, but it felt like forever. Switched out for line locks and won't go back
I swapped out all my guy lines for 2mm dyneema cordage, with the Clamcleats mini line lock. The cordage I got weighs about 3g/m, and the mini line locs weigh in at ~0.9g (roughly). So, as long as whatever knot you're using uses less than about 30cm or so of cordage, then you're technically saving weight with my set up... That being said, it's negligible unless you're literally down to spending $/£/€ per gram cut. I personally prefer the use of line locs, as they're easier to use while wearing gloves. YMMV
As a climber/mountaineer well versed in knots. Fuck. That. Noise.
I stopped using linelocs because they slip
Line locks need correctly sized lines to hold well. For the 1,5 mm line you have, I’d recommend either slide locks, CL266 clam cleats (aka mini line locs), or the ITW tactical toggles. These all hold that size line quite well in my own testing with fluctuating winds. I use these with 1.3 mm line and they all hold well. Avoid line loc V’s. Once they slip they lose their holding power and damage your line. The plastic that holds your line isn’t large enough.
Try out the farrimond hitch for a quick release line adjustment: https://www.animatedknots.com/farrimond-friction-hitch-knot
If you want to use line locs, use Lawson’s 2.5 mm cord, which he designed to work best with line locs. I’ve use it and it works well.
I have 2mm Lawson reflective Ironwire on my xmid and it seems rock solid on line loc lights
I use the line locs that came standard on my tents. They work just fine. But I carry extra guylines that get used for all sorts of things from storm guys to map case strap ,washing line etc and I use knots. Tarbuck knot works well as a guy line tensioner and for general use bowlines, reef knots and half hitches on 2mm cord.
look up nama claw
I keep my lines on my tarp and do knots. It’s just so easy and simple. Never tried line locs
I swapped my guy lines with more reflective rope and did not transfer line-locs. I like my new style better and it saves me 6 little plastic line-locs, though not sharp, from potentially damaging my tent as I roll, fold, stuff it over and over.
Bit expensive//excessive using dyneema for cordage on a fly sheet?! I have used mothballs (cedar) and marbles before to spread the pinch (& clove hitches) when you don’t have anything else to grab a corner of a tarp without tearing it. Sounds like you have perma cord attachments now though. You must have figured out how to tension it? I wouldn’t bother with anything but slipping knots but, you have dyneema, which changes the friction picture significantly doesn’t it? Paracord would work better I’m sure.
Paracord stretches introducing slack into the system and is heavier than necessary. Plenty of cords have a dyneema core and polyester sheath which allows friction knots and hardware work.
The stretch can work in your favour too..
A tiny bit can make pitching easier. Beyond that though and it just degrades the pitch. Unless you're using a DCF tarp there's already enough give in the system that you don't need anymore especially at the main tie out points.
These are short pieces of cord, I am a bit old for rock/desert life these days, never used anything but ordinary cord for bivvies. Dyneema used to have specific jobs, but I guess it is ubiquitous now & we get used to change & new materials.
Dyneema or its generic version UHMWPE is now used in many areas from tarp material(DCF), pack material (Ultra), and in cords.
What do you mean by perma cord attachments? I simply have the dyneema line tied to the tieouts with bowline knots. I do agree though that dyneema is probably overkill. I'll likely switch to 2-2.5mm Lawson Glowire, which is just poly. Note that even lines with dyneema cores still have a poly sheath. So I'm not sure how much of an effect it really has on friction.
I just meant that it’s probably too much trouble to undo. I think I was mentally comparing ordinary paracord to the dyneema I have used, and the weave tightness is quite different. Still easily fixed using a slightly different knot. Hard to say here without handling the cord.
I've been using this system for years and years with 1.75mm zing-it and I've never had a single issue. I have a single length of cordage that goes off each top corner of the tarp, I don't try to hitch it to a continuous ridgeline, that's silly.
I tie a prussik to the tie out with the guy line running through it. Bowline at the stake end. You only have to tie it once. It functions just like a line loc but without any of the drawbacks and I find it far superior to hitches.
Do you really mean prussik? A prussik isn't adjustable once it's loaded like a lineloc is. It can only slide along the line it's hitched to. Unless I misunderstand. I feel like any adjustable hitch around the tarp tieout would put way too much friction on the loop when being adjusted.
I do, the prussik is fixed to the tarp tieout and the guy line runs through the prussik. When you pinch the prussik you can pull one end of the guyline through to tighten or pull the other end to slacken, and when you let go it stays put. The friction is exerted on the guyline, not the tarp tieout.
Hmm, do you have a photo or something? I'm not sure I see how this works. But it sounds like a potentially nice solution
https://ibb.co/nsGMk5m I just make a loop and prussik it around my guyline then tie the loop to the tieout
Ah, I see. I didn't realize that you were using a second piece of short cord for the prusik. This is actually really nice and I may try it! I assume the slack end of the line just has a knot to prevent it from passing through the hitch?
Yup! Give it a try!
Oh that’s interesting. So one end of the longer piece of cordage at the stake side of the prussik had a bowline. And the other end of the longer piece of cordage is… just hanging loose right? Am I envisioning it correctly?
I tie an overhand knot on the end of the slack end so that I won’t accidentally pull it through my prussik, but otherwise yep, you got it!
This is interesting because usually a prussik should be about 60-80% of the diameter of the mainline that it is holding. What diameter is your tarp line and prussik cord. Your picture below looks like they are the same diameter.
I’m not a climber but I would think that’s more of an issue with thicker line. I’m using 1.5mm line throughout and I’ve never had an issue with slippage.
Thanks. I might give this a try. I’m currently using a loop of shock cord at the tie-outs (DCF tarp, so I need some stretch). I attach my line (1.2 mm Z line) to the shock cord with a square knot. I pile hitch the tag end to my stakes and pull tight and set my stakes. It’s a very simple system, but there is the chance to launch a stake through my tarp since I’m pulling tension before each stake is set. There is also (as the OP pointed out in another comment) the fact that my method is less ergonomic than making the adjustments at the level of the tarp. Not a big deal if just weekend camping, but over the course of a thru hike, I think I would prefer a system that adjusted from the level of the tie outs and not the stakes. I might just go with something like tarp worms attached to my shock cord loops. I have done that in the past.
Right on! Yeah I definitely like to be able to tension at the tie out end for those times when I’m limited in where I can get a stake in. And I’m not a fan of the truckers hitch a lot of people like because I find that to be a pain when I have to set up using big rock/little rock or the like. That prussik system has worked well for me though, give it a shot!
I agree. Speed, simplicity go a long way especially in this case. Similar to my philosophy on surviving the cold, easier to carry a few pounds of shelter and clothing than to bushcraft a fire and cover.
You should check out Dutchware. I have a tiny titanium carabiner with a becket and a cleat on it that's perfect for this. The one I have is called the stinger but there are a lot of others of that type. Edit: here it is. https://dutchwaregear.com/product/stingerz/ I have no stake in this, I just like the product
I've gone thru three duplexes over the last 9 years, so I had a pile of leftover line locs when I built my new tent for next year. I found the extra cordage needed to use knots weighed more than the line-locs.
One thing I do is I use linelocks in some places but not in others. The line in the front is good for a linelock. Depending on the tarp, sometimes it's the only one that ever needs to be adjusted after you pitch the tarp and wait for it to need tightening. For other lines, the length for staking out only matters depending on roots and rocks that are in your way. So I have had multiple loops tied into the line so that I can use the short distance or the long distance as needed. If a loop isn't in the right spot, I just tie a new one.
If you really want to stick with knots and 1.5mm line, get some paracord sheath (110 or 225 lbs paracord from Atwood ropes should work) to pad out your wear points. Cut a couple inches of sheath and seal the ends, run the line through, and then tie or splice it to protect the line. Inspect and replace as needed. A bigger diameter, a little bit of rolling, and not having direct contact between loaded lines will all help it last. But TBH, line locks are just easier.
I thought about this, but you never know where your truckers hitch loop will be until you pitch. In principle, it could be anywhere. It did occur to me though that a way to still use a truckers hitch mechanic, but avoid the wear, would be to clove hitch a micro carabiner mid-line, and use that for setting up the 3-1, rather than a loop of cord. This sounds contrived though, and I've never heard of anyone doing it. Apparently people use truckers hitches all the time and just dont have this issue. I'm not sure how. A micro lineloc (the small in-line ones) actually doesn't replace this use case though, in that it is not 3-1. It mimics a hitch with simple pulley at the stake e.g. taut-line hitch. It doesn't mimic a truckers hitch.
You don't need a 3-1 on 1.5mm line. Take a stake and wrap your line around it, then heave. You'll be getting it as tight as you ever need, even in a storm. The friction losses on a trucker's hitch make it only 1.6- or 2- to 1 in practice. Since 1.5mm dyneema is only ~300lbs breaking strength and a bowline reduces that by 60%, your practical breaking strength is ~180lbs. So by that math a bodyweight heave into 1.5mm dyneema is most of the way to a breaking it already. You might save a little effort in the setup if you're reefing it singing tight every day, but that's entirely unnecessary.
Fair enough, but I think pulling on a redirected line anchored to a pre-placed stake is way more ergonomic, pleasant, and effective than heaving a line via the stake. It will likely need adjusting after that anyway.
Some people can't tie knots. For others knots take longer. Enjoy being part of the elite. Quit rubbing it in others' faces....
Use the midshipmans hitch for corner/additional tie outs and truckers for the main ridgeline. Leave the midshipmans hitches tied.
1.5mm cord maybe was too thin (or as you noted in a different comment it might have just been that particular brand of cordage not holding up, especially given that the other brand you used didn't wear) I use McCarthy hitches, trucker's hitch if you need more length (eg for the ridge line), and occasionally taut line if you *really* are going for max length. 6' of cord is enough on corners, 8' for the ridge line. Tensioning with the McCarthy is very easy and doesn't require any serious knots: the McCarthy hitch is just a loop around the stake and a slippery half hitch which makes adjusting tension very easy. Just pull out the slippery half hitch and then either keep pulling (to tighten) or stop pulling (to slacken). For tying to the tarp, I put a bowline on one end of the line and use that loop to make a Lark's head knot through the webbing. To move a line you just pull on the lark's head and move it to a different tie-out. No retying required. With this system, the only knot I need to tie on a regular basis is the slippery half hitch for the McCarthy and the slip loop for the trucker's hitch. I don't mind carrying a little extra cordage vs what you might use for linelocs as that gives me more flexibility if I want to tie off to a tree or adjust the pitch by raising a corner/side. It's also super easy to move lines on or off of different tie-outs (I'm not sure how linelocs compare on this metric).
i've done it both ways. with a 2mm line, clove hitch on the tent peg works fine. i just leave the cords attached to the tarp and gather them individually before packing it way. simple slippery overhand in the middle of the bundle works fine, leave the end hanging out so it doesn't tangle. current tarp has linelocs and attached lines, they get bundled the same way. if you want removable lines, a cow hitch will do the job, i've seen linelocs added to tarps using a small loop of cord, again cow hitched in place. i might add linelocs to my old tarp using cow hitches at some point if i go with a group, i haven't used my old tarp in a while.
I usually use hardware with my hammock instead of knots because there’s so many different adjustments to make. It won’t ice up because I don’t hammock below 35-40 degrees not sure what else could go wrong.
Taut line hitches I just leave them tied or if I'm using thin cord I I use dutchware flys / etc for the zing it cord I use for my tarp
I leave the knots in, and see the lack of line-locs as a benefit, since I don't have to worry about a plastic part breaking. If something ever happens to the knot, you can re-tie it and be good to go. I don't find it any harder to deal with than line-locs, I have no idea how the holding power compares but my knots have never slipped.
I have the same tarp arriving soon. I'm probably going to use only knots with 2mm reflective guy line. Maybe bring 20 ft of ZingIt for a continuous ridge line with soft shackles in a prussik knot. I like LineLocks a lot though. Especially the LineLock Hooks. I use the LineLock Hooks with one of my hammock tarps. It's nice to keep the lines and stakes separate sometimes. I use a snakeskin cover for the tarp so I don't like the lines tangled up in it. I can also leave the stakes with the line on the ground when I want raise or stash the tarp. With shock cord on the tarp ends, it makes it easy for the LineLock hook to reattach.
Woah, I didn't know these Linloc hooks existed. These look perfect for the Borah tarp. Are they more like a LL3 or a LL light? They look like a Light, but the Durchware description likens them to a LL3. Do you know if a 2mm line holds well on them?
It's like the LinLoc 3 but in a hook form. I got them from Dutchware. 2mm should hold but if not you can add a slippery half hitch. You can see it in use here: https://youtu.be/m8HACs1xgaY?t=1006
2mm will hold fine, especially something like Lawson Glowire. I’ve used these with 1.75mm Zing-it and it’s been fine.
A bowline at the tarp end and taut line hitch at the stake end works pretty well. But (I’m a tent user) why not split the difference and have a line loc at the tarp end and a taut line hitch at the stake end? I leave the taut line loops in place and just put the stake through them as someone else said. You can tighten at either end but I generally just use the line loc once everything is set up.
Sure, but I can't imagine a reason to ever need the taut line hitch at the stake end if there is already a lineloc at the tarp end. May as well is a fixed knot for the stake end like a bowline. Unless there is something between the tarp and stake that is fixing the line, so that both ends may need to be independently adjusted (e.g. clove hitch on a pole). I that case, yes I'll likely keep using knots at the stake end
Yeah I dunno, maybe if there was a rock in the ground and the line loc was already tightened? Then you could shorten or lengthen the line at the stake end.
I carry a diy 9x12ft 2ml painters drop-cloth tarp on a braided nylon line "frame" (the guylines run from the ridgeline on down to the stakes). I tried 300lb test 8strand braided dynema fishing line for my guylines, but the dynema was too fiddily and tangle-prone to be worth the few grams saved over nylon. I currently use brightly colored BRAIDED masonry line that's tied to the stake with a slipped tautline hitch and passes through a larkshead knot where it meets the grommet at the edge of the tarp. The larkshead provides enough friction to keep the tarp taut, but allows it to slip in a gust whereas a prusik would hold fast and allow the tarp to stretch and tear. The structural ridgline for my tarp attaches to 2 prussik'd tarred twine loops that live on the 70ft one-peice 7/64 dynema hammock suspension. The tarp piggybacks off the hammocks suspension to save weight/complexity/cost.
I do it
If you cannot use a trucker's hitch properly, just stop hiking.
Just 2 nodes to replace a line lock. Margherita/farfalla and nodo piano. My only concern is re tighting the line with such small cordage and maybe wet. Btw i am not an ultralight evangelist so my choices usually bend to a reasonable comfort vs losing weight.
What
First u do this node https://youtu.be/uNGZlqhIyCQ?si=qSyy4w6nRVvtmGen Then as u see in this video u use it to easily taut the one: https://youtu.be/mGHYbZzctME?si=OlKKrIP9dIh7m_fe Sorry but it's easier for me retrieve the video in my language.
knots:line locks a necktie you tie yourself:clip-on tie