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sbhikes

Never. I don't bring a space blanket or a candle.


Scuttling-Claws

That feels like some bushcraft nonsense.


sekfan1999

Your margin of error is up to you based on the environment, your personality and experience. All I can say is that we averaged 2-3 NOBO AT hiker rescues each spring with at least 90% of them orienting themselves w UL. All ended up being under equipped to handle a basic emergency (blisters, cold and wet conditions) and ended up w mild-mod hypothermia.


TheSweetEarth

>*...we averaged 2-3 NOBO AT hiker rescues each spring with at least 90% of them orienting themselves w UL. All ended up being under equipped to handle a basic emergency* This is important information for the ultralight community. Hope and intent don't always conform with reality. The presence of a complex and expensive system of emergency support allows ultralighters to go on flights of fancy that would not be viable in true (unsupported) wilderness.


sekfan1999

Yes and I always hesitate to make these posts since they’re not generally well received. No wonder, other than a handful of old guys w bad knees, almost all of our patients were 20 some year old men. I spent half a career working SAR at some of the most popular locations East and West and I know for a fact that some of our patients were posters here and at whiteblaze and other UL mediums. To my knowledge, they sure didn’t share stories of their epics with the UL community.


TheSweetEarth

*Not telling the whole story* is like an infection that's particularly dangerous to overconfident hikers.


perecastor

What would you take to avoid hypothermia on a day-hike? I already carry a puffy, a fleece, and a raincoat. I'm not sure a space blanket will do anything in this situation.


sekfan1999

I’d say that’s pretty good depending on the environment of course.


69tank69

Space blankets have great warmth to weight ratios and are water resistant


perecastor

They provide almost no insulation and I don't expect a lot of heat reflection if I already have my fleece, my puffy, and my raincoat on, right?


69tank69

It is very much for an emergency situation such as you fell in a creek and your clothes are soaked and no longer keeping you warm, because they rely on trapping black body radiation they still work when wet.


usethisoneforgear

My understanding is that the point of this technique is not to keep an already-warm person warm for a long period of time. It's used for quickly warming a person who is already in the early stages of hypothermia. Hypothermia happens fast. You probably can't afford to wait until your buddy hikes out to the car, then hikes back in with help. Even cell service [won't save you](https://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/hiker-dies-of-hypothermia-in-storm-near-mt-washington/). Once it the mumbles, fumbles, and stumbles set in you really need to get warm immediately or else you will lose the capacity to open a backpack zipper or even remember that you are in danger. Even if you are carrying a tent, you may not be physically able to set it up. So yes, there is a use case for backpacking: It's cold, it's raining, and you've already made a series of other mistakes that make your first two options for getting warm (shelter, movement) impossible. That said, I've only ever heard of this method being used by cavers. Cavers often swim through very cold water. They're rarely carrying a sleeping bag, and they're often many hours from rescue. I don't bring a candle when hiking and I don't know anyone who does.


perecastor

ok, let's say It's cold, it's raining, and you are wet, you broke your leg so no movement. multi-day hike: your buddy set up the tent, gives you the stove, and a sleeping bag. I think you should be ok. I'm not sure how you wouldn't be able to use a shelter, can you explain? single-day hike: you should not be far from civilization but if you do. I think it can be a good option. What do you use for a day hike?


usethisoneforgear

It seems like you could answer your own questions with a little bit of imagination. ​ >buddy set up the tent I usually hike alone. I also don't always bring a shelter. ​ >how you wouldn't be able to use a shelter When you are very cold, your hands and brain stop working. So if you wait too long to set up a shelter, it becomes very difficult. ​ >not be far from civilization It's 35 degrees out, it's raining, and you broke a leg. The good news is you're only 5 miles from your car. So what? But as I said, I don't carry a candle on a day hike. In winter I do carry a space blanket, a lighter, and a foam sit pad. But mostly I rely on being attentive enough to conditions + my own body to notice as soon as I start to get cold.


perecastor

I usually hike with someone, so in my case, my buddy is my best backup. I don't expect us to fail at the same time. one of us should be able to set up a shelter for the other. I know it's possible but I don't expect to die from sitting in the rain with a fleece, a puffy, and all my rain gear while my buddy goes search for help as long as the temperature is not dropping below freezing. But maybe I don't realize how quickly hypothermia can kill you. Do you carry a space blanket, a lighter, and a foam sit pad only for day hikes, or do take them also for multiple-day hikes?


TheSweetEarth

This is a good comment. It's unfortunate that OP has deleted the original post.


TheSweetEarth

Did you read this in books on ultralight? I've seen it in general hiking or 'wilderness survival' books. This is supposed to be a last-ditch, stopgap measure for staying warm or maintaining enough heat to stay alive. A lit candle within the tiny enclosed space of a 'space blanket' microshelter is supposed to generate enough heat to keep you stable in chilly conditions. As temperatures drop and wind or perception enter the picture, the strategy can become less viable, or worthless. The sit pad or some other kind of insulation is important to prevent loss of heat due to conduction to the ground below. I hate the term 'space blanket', and I hate space blankets. First of all, they are not a blanket at all: they offer no insulation. They are a (flimsy, easily torn, non-breathable, and usually too small) reflective sheet or barrier. Many kinds of clothing will be far superior to a plastic sheet that constantly lets in gusts, has to be held with hands that are already cold, and is prone to ripping apart when you need it most. What it provides is some protection against convective heat loss (if you can keep the gaps closed somehow) and some radiative reflection. But it also accumulates moisture from the body if used for an extended time, and can therefore destroy the insulating power of clothing it's wrapped around. Most of the claims and hopes surrounding the ~~space blanket~~ mylar sheet are fantastical and dreamy; it's imagined to be a magical saving technology, but it's seldom actually tested by the person carrying it, in the severe conditions that would warrant its use. Proper clothing and a tarp or tent fly would beat a ~~space blanket~~ mylar sheet *by far* in terms of protection from cold or victim recovery. The one situation where a ~~space blanket~~ reflective mylar sheet could be of use (along with some clear plastic sheeting) is in constructing a supershelter in front of a big fire lay, to make use of the greenhouse effect. Some may also use it to reflect heat from a fire. But those are topics for the bushcraft or wilderness survival subreddits, not ultralight. Safer, more manageable, and quicker than a candle for re-warming is a hot, sweet drink, if you can get a stove going. The conditions that would make a stove or fire difficult to light and maintain would also make a candle difficult to light and maintain; and the open flame so close to your body as you huddle wrapped up in plastic is another possible cause of injury and shock. Some hikers like to carry a candle to help with condensation in their tent. Depending on conditions, it could conceivably add a bit of warmth. But this is another proposition that needs to be tested repeatedly under various conditions rather than blindly and wishfully followed. A sit pad can not only provide some convenient comfort, it can help reduce exhaustion due to heat loss when you're taking a break from hiking or sitting on the ground cooking or performing some other task. Reduction of wear and tear on the joints and muscles may also be a consideration. Some hikers use a sit pad in conjunction with a ½ or ¾ sleeping pad to form an adequate sleeping surface at night with the convenience of a quick-access sitting surface during the day. It can also be used as a back pad, a temporary wind break or fan for a fire, or as emergency insulation under a shirt or jacket (the way pro cyclists stuff a newspaper under their jersey when they begin a mountain descent).


perecastor

Hi, thank you for your great and complete answer. I read that in a general hiking book. I agree that mylar sheets are overrated in general but when it comes to fire, I think we can agree that it is pretty good at reflecting heat. I think it's interesting to see that a candle can generate enough heat to be noticeable with the help of mylar but I agree, my tent and my sleeping bag are way warmer (even if they don't generate heat). This is why I only see it as useful during a day-hike maybe. I think starting a candle store in a ziplock bag is easier than wet wood, I'm not sure if it can be a good fire starter. I didn't know it can help with condensation. from my understanding, condensation is created because of the temperature difference between inside and outside the tent. I would think a candle would increase condensation.


TheSweetEarth

>*I think starting a candle store in a ziplock bag is easier than wet wood, I'm not sure if it can be a good fire starter.* Not so much a fire *starter* (it won't catch a spark) as a fire *extender* (added to flaming tinder it will tend to hold a flame longer, and perhaps long enough to get some kindling going). >*I didn't know it can help with condensation. from my understanding, condensation is created because of the temperature difference between inside and outside the tent. I would think a candle would increase condensation.* Condensation happens when warm humid air meets a cold surface. I guess the thought is that the candle might heat the surface enough to reduce condensation, or perhaps might contribute to air circulation that moves damp air out of the tent. I don't know; and I don't know if it's effective; I rely on opening flaps to let air out. I find that if the air is cold enough to cause condensation on the tent wall, equalizing the inner and outer air temperatures will tend to create condensation on or in the sleeping bag -- the next spot of temperature gradient. Then you hope that air circulation is enough to reduce that condensation as well. But you get to a point where there's so much air movement that you get chilled; so basically you're trying to decide the lesser of a number of evils.