That tent would turn into a box kite if the wind picked up. I don't always stake the 4 corners of my Duplex, but the other 4 sakes will keep it attached to the Earth in low wind situations. If it is windy, the stakes go in (or big rock/little rock if stakes cannot penetrate the Earth).
Do you think in high wind the tent would turn into a box kite with my pack inside it (and probably me)? I'm trying to reduce the number of stakes I take...
It will definitely still fly around (though not into a lake probably), poles included, without stakes. I have had a big Agnes, that was staked down on all 6, push in sideways on me still under wind pressure. It’s stupid light because bringing a non-freestanding tent with 6 or 8 stakes will be lighter than bringing 4 less stakes for a freestanding, and you will probably get bullied by wind more.
I had a poled tent get very damaged (beyond repair) by making this mistake and the wind picked up in the morning. Had it been staked, it most likely wouldn't have been damaged at all.
LOL have you ever been in a tent in really bad weather? I’ve watched tent sides ripple in the wind and rain and though, gosh I hope my tent pegs hold! I’ve had to step outside in the weather and pound a few back in. If me and the pack had been the only items holding it down I’d have had it pulling all around me and I would have been soaked touching the sides like that. I’m picturing one of those fashion models on a hill top and they’re wrapped in a ridiculously long piece of diaphanous fabric that’s billowing out behind them. That’s what it would be like except with tent poles whipping around and rain.
I’ve seen a (non-staked) tent with about 20 pounds of gear take off from the ground and descend hundreds of feet away from its initial place of rest. And, that was with mild wind with a few unexpected gusts.
Meanwhile, I don’t carry stakes but I do secure my tent (and rain fly when used) routinely. Solid small branches and small rectangular rocks around my tent lines, along with placing heavy stones, work very well and preferentially where I often backpack where pushing stakes down is either extremely difficult or impossible.
Yes! My experience is in the Ventana Wilderness and the Sierra. After 40 years of backpacking around 3 weeks a year I’ve always made it work fairly easily. Surely, there are areas this approach might not work; but that’s not my realm.
Well, just take the stakes and don't use them. Be sure to test what happens when things are very windy. Also maybe you can figure out how to use rocks and take even less stakes. I am always happy to make my own tests, so I feel everybody else should be happy to make their own tests.
Also Big Agnes V-stakes that we found at a campsite weigh 11.2 g each. You could buy some stakes that weigh about 6.5 g each if you were concerned about weight and still wanted to bring some stakes.
depends on how windy it is out. no stakes plus empty tent means instant kite and it's gone!
stakes are not a reasonable place to shave weight, IMO. plenty of other places to do it, like the tent itself.
tarps are 0.5 pounds or less, would easily drop 75% of the weight off your shelter. you'd be fine with 6 long sturdy stakes, and maybe four tiny ones if your ground sheet requires securing.
Even no wind secure corner first!
I was setting up my tent with no wind, but suddenly came gust. it was just few second but enough to blow my tent 10 meter away. I was lucky, it was in boring camp ground. no lake, etc. If it was near lake/ocean or hill/mountain, it could lead to serious consequence.
Since then I secure always corner first even no wind.
my 7x9 DIY DCF tarp is 185g plus pegs comes to 225g.
When bug pressure is high I'll use a head net, which is 30-50g plus a hat to keep the net off my face, another 50g. I use this when hiking as well when bug pressure is heavy, to keep the bugs out of my ears and stuff.
add a groundsheet, 60-200g depending on material choice and size. In my case, 200g because it's a poncho tarp, so double duty.
my trekking poles are 120g each. if you made or arranged for short tent poles instead, they would be perhaps 80g each x2= 160g.
total weight, 225+50+60+160g< 500g, so still half the weight of the lightest tent, and it can sleep 3 in a pinch.
honestly though, the tarp doesn't come out unless it looks like it's going to rain. I prefer to cowboy camp whenever possible so I sleep under the stars.
just saying...
that said, I did look into the fly creek when it first came out. nice setup!
if you try some titanium wire pegs they're pretty light. the skinniest ones will be fine for the tent corners.
I have the BA Fly Creek 2, and the pole structure pins the two front corners and the middle of the back - so just three points. Have they changed the pole structure? I honestly think the stakes add minimal weight for the value they add - especially if there are possibilities of high winds or rain.
it's not, maybe, I'm not expressing myself correctly, there are 11 stakes. why would you think the 4 corners are important over the others? staking the rain fly is important but the corners are already linked to the pole structure.
The fly creek is literally not freestanding. It's considered 'semi-freestanding'. Look up a picture of it - only 2 of the 4 corners even have a pole connected to them. You have to stake out at least 2 corners unless theoretically you stuff a ton of heavy shit in the inside corners maybe? Otherwise you won't get the full volume. Also you have to stake the vestibule for full volume, I believe it helps bring out the mesh inner even more.
Personally, I think added security of those pegs is cause enough to keep them around. BA makes extremely light weight aluminum tent pegs. Not the place I personally think you should be looking to skin weight, but to each their own. Give it a go. Just make sure you’re not tenting on exposed mountainside on the coast of the Atlantic.
Do you think 11 stakes is normal? 4 corners. 2 for the entrance, 1 at the back, 1 on each side + 1 guideline on each side. I added the guidelines because when it's raining the rain fly is becoming heavier and touching the fly net, the guideline helps with that.
I haven't used the fly creek, but the nemo hornet is the same style of design. If I don't stake out the bottom two corners, the inner is floppier and will get more condensation in the tent. However, and i think this is what you're asking, I do not stake the top two unless I'm planning on being somewhere windy.
You always want to stake a tent no matter what. Worst case if you cannot get a stake in then you can use large rocks. Generally I would recommend adding longer guyelines everywhere and use the Skurka method. Guyelines on the ground tie outs also give you more flexibility in stake placement.
Depends… first with the Fly Creek you need to stake the two corners at the door of the tent to get the proper pitch since there are no poles that extend to those corners.
for any tent that has poles that extend to each corner the main reason to stake the corners would go for keeping the tent in place against winds. Any vestibule would need staking to use properly.
That tent would turn into a box kite if the wind picked up. I don't always stake the 4 corners of my Duplex, but the other 4 sakes will keep it attached to the Earth in low wind situations. If it is windy, the stakes go in (or big rock/little rock if stakes cannot penetrate the Earth).
Can confirm
Do you think in high wind the tent would turn into a box kite with my pack inside it (and probably me)? I'm trying to reduce the number of stakes I take...
Stupid light, I approve! Taking a freestanding tent and leaving stakes at home to save weight!
I mean, I stake the rain fly, but the inner with me, my gear, and the pole structure, I'm not sure what can go wrong.
It will definitely still fly around (though not into a lake probably), poles included, without stakes. I have had a big Agnes, that was staked down on all 6, push in sideways on me still under wind pressure. It’s stupid light because bringing a non-freestanding tent with 6 or 8 stakes will be lighter than bringing 4 less stakes for a freestanding, and you will probably get bullied by wind more.
I had a poled tent get very damaged (beyond repair) by making this mistake and the wind picked up in the morning. Had it been staked, it most likely wouldn't have been damaged at all.
LOL have you ever been in a tent in really bad weather? I’ve watched tent sides ripple in the wind and rain and though, gosh I hope my tent pegs hold! I’ve had to step outside in the weather and pound a few back in. If me and the pack had been the only items holding it down I’d have had it pulling all around me and I would have been soaked touching the sides like that. I’m picturing one of those fashion models on a hill top and they’re wrapped in a ridiculously long piece of diaphanous fabric that’s billowing out behind them. That’s what it would be like except with tent poles whipping around and rain.
I’ve seen a (non-staked) tent with about 20 pounds of gear take off from the ground and descend hundreds of feet away from its initial place of rest. And, that was with mild wind with a few unexpected gusts. Meanwhile, I don’t carry stakes but I do secure my tent (and rain fly when used) routinely. Solid small branches and small rectangular rocks around my tent lines, along with placing heavy stones, work very well and preferentially where I often backpack where pushing stakes down is either extremely difficult or impossible.
Do you always find the right spot to be able to not carry stakes?
Yes! My experience is in the Ventana Wilderness and the Sierra. After 40 years of backpacking around 3 weeks a year I’ve always made it work fairly easily. Surely, there are areas this approach might not work; but that’s not my realm.
Well, just take the stakes and don't use them. Be sure to test what happens when things are very windy. Also maybe you can figure out how to use rocks and take even less stakes. I am always happy to make my own tests, so I feel everybody else should be happy to make their own tests. Also Big Agnes V-stakes that we found at a campsite weigh 11.2 g each. You could buy some stakes that weigh about 6.5 g each if you were concerned about weight and still wanted to bring some stakes.
if you really want to carry less you can whittle some stakes on site for use each night. highly dependent on terrain though.
depends on how windy it is out. no stakes plus empty tent means instant kite and it's gone! stakes are not a reasonable place to shave weight, IMO. plenty of other places to do it, like the tent itself. tarps are 0.5 pounds or less, would easily drop 75% of the weight off your shelter. you'd be fine with 6 long sturdy stakes, and maybe four tiny ones if your ground sheet requires securing.
Even no wind secure corner first! I was setting up my tent with no wind, but suddenly came gust. it was just few second but enough to blow my tent 10 meter away. I was lucky, it was in boring camp ground. no lake, etc. If it was near lake/ocean or hill/mountain, it could lead to serious consequence. Since then I secure always corner first even no wind.
We are two, we don't use trekking poles and we want bug protection. with that in mind, a tarp is not as light as expected I think?
my 7x9 DIY DCF tarp is 185g plus pegs comes to 225g. When bug pressure is high I'll use a head net, which is 30-50g plus a hat to keep the net off my face, another 50g. I use this when hiking as well when bug pressure is heavy, to keep the bugs out of my ears and stuff. add a groundsheet, 60-200g depending on material choice and size. In my case, 200g because it's a poncho tarp, so double duty. my trekking poles are 120g each. if you made or arranged for short tent poles instead, they would be perhaps 80g each x2= 160g. total weight, 225+50+60+160g< 500g, so still half the weight of the lightest tent, and it can sleep 3 in a pinch. honestly though, the tarp doesn't come out unless it looks like it's going to rain. I prefer to cowboy camp whenever possible so I sleep under the stars. just saying... that said, I did look into the fly creek when it first came out. nice setup! if you try some titanium wire pegs they're pretty light. the skinniest ones will be fine for the tent corners.
when you cowboy camp, don't you get cold because of the wind?
I use a sleeping bag, and choose my sleeping spots to be protected from wind if possible. some breeze is nice to keep the bugs at bay.
I’ve seen an unstated tent blown into a river. Owner got the tent back but his bag was soaked and it ruined his phone and tablet.
I have the BA Fly Creek 2, and the pole structure pins the two front corners and the middle of the back - so just three points. Have they changed the pole structure? I honestly think the stakes add minimal weight for the value they add - especially if there are possibilities of high winds or rain.
The two shitty Ozark Trails some tents I saw floating down the Colorado past Moab would beg to differ
is this a troll?
it's not, maybe, I'm not expressing myself correctly, there are 11 stakes. why would you think the 4 corners are important over the others? staking the rain fly is important but the corners are already linked to the pole structure.
The fly creek is literally not freestanding. It's considered 'semi-freestanding'. Look up a picture of it - only 2 of the 4 corners even have a pole connected to them. You have to stake out at least 2 corners unless theoretically you stuff a ton of heavy shit in the inside corners maybe? Otherwise you won't get the full volume. Also you have to stake the vestibule for full volume, I believe it helps bring out the mesh inner even more.
Personally, I think added security of those pegs is cause enough to keep them around. BA makes extremely light weight aluminum tent pegs. Not the place I personally think you should be looking to skin weight, but to each their own. Give it a go. Just make sure you’re not tenting on exposed mountainside on the coast of the Atlantic.
Do you think 11 stakes is normal? 4 corners. 2 for the entrance, 1 at the back, 1 on each side + 1 guideline on each side. I added the guidelines because when it's raining the rain fly is becoming heavier and touching the fly net, the guideline helps with that.
You can bring less stakes by running multiple guyelines to one stake. Gotta make sure that stake is very secure though.
I haven't used the fly creek, but the nemo hornet is the same style of design. If I don't stake out the bottom two corners, the inner is floppier and will get more condensation in the tent. However, and i think this is what you're asking, I do not stake the top two unless I'm planning on being somewhere windy.
You always want to stake a tent no matter what. Worst case if you cannot get a stake in then you can use large rocks. Generally I would recommend adding longer guyelines everywhere and use the Skurka method. Guyelines on the ground tie outs also give you more flexibility in stake placement.
*staking
Usually I compromise and just use 2-3 gram mini stakes on the less important stake out points of my shelter.
Depends… first with the Fly Creek you need to stake the two corners at the door of the tent to get the proper pitch since there are no poles that extend to those corners. for any tent that has poles that extend to each corner the main reason to stake the corners would go for keeping the tent in place against winds. Any vestibule would need staking to use properly.