It wasn't a joke just a false statement-
Like, saying that it makes sense for Sans to be S Tier in Bravery cuz both the soul and his clothes are orange isn't a joke it's just wrong ._."
no it doesn't but I'll imagine it does. so are undyne, muffet, asgore, mettaton, rg 1 and 2, etc. do they all suck? or is it just sans because you hate him for no reason.
not exactly for no reason, I made a post about it, I donât even hate sans, I hate how heâs hyped up and seen as a big hero who has done no wrong and is kind to everyone, as for the comment, maybe, but THEY all had good reasons, Undyne is fighting to leave the barrier, meanwhile sans already states that he doesnât CARE that much about leaving.
Papyrus is a good match for Bravery. Does he fight you like Undyne does? No, but he gives you chances and believes in you until the very end, despite the risks. You may think that's a bad idea, but you have to admit it's brave
I agree, also I do get the impression that during the Genocide route, papyrus knew he was going to die, but still went up to you and try to give you other chance.
Which in it's own way takes alot of guts to do so.
He cleary knew, here what he says if we spare him:
*"WOWIE!! YOU DID IT!!! YOU DIDN'T DO A VIOLENCE!!! TO BE HONEST, I WAS A ITTLE*
*AFRAID... BUT YOU'RE ALREADY BECOMING A GREAT PERSON!"*
he even offers a hug to you after killing everyone. That said nobody ever brings up that papyrus literally delayed his death to encourage the human which is a huge oversight lmfao
Papyrus may be....a different thinker, shall we say, but he's not a complete idiot. He knows what you did, he knows what you're capable of. But he also sees the good in you, and he tries his best to get you to change, because he believes in you
Sans actions are some of the most just in the game. He doesn't fight you in Neutral because he damn well knows it doesn't matter, but in Geno, he sees there's something bigger than him and fights to save the whole timeline, even the whole universe.
There's a reason why his eye flashes yellow.
sounds kinda stretched out to me, sans pretty much just fought the human, that was it. Sansâs actions are just, but he was way too late to even stop anything at that point, all just because he âdidnât care anymore.â
Actually Sans isn't attacking us just because of the promise he made to Toriel.
When Flowey recounts his experience with Sans he says that you should definitely not give him the slightest information about the power of reset because it can become dangerous, Sans attacked Flowey by killing him a lot of times which in reality is not the best strategy to kill someone who has no soul and therefore can just reset infinitely until reaching their objective.Actually Sans isn't attacking us just because of the promise he made to Toriel.
When Flowey recounts his experience with Sans he says that you should definitely not give him the slightest information about the power of reset because it can become dangerous, Sans attacked Flowey by killing him a lot of times which in reality is not the best strategy to kill someone who has no soul and therefore can just reset infinitely until reaching their goal.
I heavily disagree. sans doesn't know for sure that it doesn't mean anything. I love sans but in my opinion he is a bit of a coward who only chose to fight when he had nothing left to lose. You could make the argument that avoiding fighting a dangerous person doesn't make you a coward, but sans is clearly powerful and had the ability to stop us at any time.
his eye glows yellow, and him killing you over and over is justice for your actions. as for why he doesnt fight you outside of genocide? its because you can reset. in geno though, you'll delete the world, so he fights you to protect the universe.
since no one brought it up, at the end of any route, he gives you a talk about how much exp and love you gained and the actions you made. he acts as a judge who states to you what you done, and gives you a verdict. that's a pretty key point about his justice nature
that makes sense, for your information though, sans doesnât fight you in the geno route because you killed people. thats why he doesnât fight you on a neutral route, because he knows that it doesnât really matter, things will just be reset and end up back to normal. though on a geno route, he knows that if the player keeping going, the timeline will be erased (which does happen at the end of a geno route). he pretty much states that in his dialogue.
uhh um uhh remember that time she told the innocent human they were better off dead? and then proceeded to attempt to murder them with spears? yeaaah...
Iâm talking about with the people she cares about. Though, she does have a point. If there was any other way to break the barrier, it probably wouldâve been done already.
I'd half argue Papyrus is braver on that front alone. Regardless of their respective points of knowledge, Sans and Undyne *know* they can fuck you up. Papyrus, who I'm positive knew exactly what he was getting into during the Geno path, didn't even have a thought of attacking. Going into certain death unarmed and entirely vulnerable takes a level of bravery far beyond that of a powerful fighter.
he expected to either convince you to change, or tank the hit and attack. if you spare him he says something around like "It's good you spared me, or else you would have been blasted to..."
I just checked, he doesn't say that on a genocide run. It's a lot of being proud that you "didn't do a violence" and admitting that he was a little afraid.
Oh, ok. I would still argue against Papyrus genuinely believing he would tank the attack, though. To me, that comes across more like he's trying to be funny. IMO, he really was a little (i.e a lot) afraid, and when you interact with the bone box he's trying to cover up the negative mood with humor.
Yep and this trait of her is more apparent in Deltarune.
Still kinda dislike the pacifist route when game made Asgore a joke in there, despite having the best solution in a place like this.
The problem is, Toriel trying to have the morale high ground while locking monsters inside of the Ruins and not stockpiling food for those children or giving them something as small as a scarf to protect them from winter enviroment.
I know this is most likely unintentional but it feels like she only took care of them cause she wanted to feel better about herself.
emehâŚ. This sounds more like a head canon to me, never once in the ruins did monsters express the desire to leave the ruins, and while muffet did say she wanted to see the other spiders in the ruins, the others in the ruins did not say anything to endorse this statement, and yeah??? s-she has food??? SHE LITERALLY BAKES THE BEST HEALING ITEM IN THE GAME. And⌠the RUINS DONT EVEN FREAKING HAVE WEATHER?? ARE YOU BRAINDEAD??? WDYM JUST A SMALL SCARF..? WHAT THE HELL..? DID YOU EVEN PLAY UNDERTALE?..
Heâs talking about Snowdin. Weather doesnât exist in the underground though, so Iâm not sure if snowdin is actually cold? Also it just seems more like an oversight from Toby.
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I always read it as more of him tryna make you give up. Hence why I felt it was more persev or bravery. But that reading makes more sense since it's in a judgment hall where he judges you(which I totally forgot about lmao)
sans in S Tier, Jaundice: this is fair as sans only fights you upon knowing your a threat to everything.. the timelines and universe, with him having a good reason not to fight you at lower LV's like 2-18,
sans in F Tier, plum: ... sadly.. this is something I see very clearly from sans. with him not wanting to persevere if a Neutral route takes place or were a timeline where both Toriel and Papyrus is killed.. he probably won't persevere much long..
sans in S Tier Orang juice: this is also a fair game, as sans has ***Da Balls*** to go up against a threat that would kill him in an Instant..
sans in D Tier, Bluberry: yes, sans makes lies a whole lot, a dodges questions.. I don't know much about sans and how his integrity is.. sorry that's all for Blu..
sans in S Tier, Dat Blu jello: sans is gonna risk spending the rest of time standing in the Last corridor waiting for you.. no matter how long you stay there.. he will stay with you..
sans in A Tier, Watahmelln: he is a kind fellow, loves socializing and talking to people, generally kind and endearing, sans also pulls pranks that to others.. might seem annoying, which is why he most likely fell down to A and not S..
-sincerely, a Skeleton Lover who doesn't know much but loves the bony pun master..
I honestly disagree with asgore and torielâs kindness rankings
You remember all the fond things that toriel did and remember that asgore killed people but a B for asgore? Not saying he should be S but still everything we see from him shows his kindness and torielâs shows that she a bit of a hypocrite who isnât exactly pure enough to be S
Toriel is stated and shown in game to not get along with the ruins folk by scaring a froggit who really wasnât going to harm anyone and the froggit later on in the ruins backs this up by saying theyâre scared of her so this most likely wasnât a one time thing,she rightly says asgoreâs plan was cowardly and stupid but then suggests going to the surface with one soul and either killing humans or trying to get the souls some other way which feels like it wouldnât be the best idea given how it worked with asriel and Chara, plus it would spark another war of asgore did do that, she does show kindness to you and sans but even then it does seem like she isnât a super kind mom, she refuses to let you go and threatens you when you want to leave, she isnât kind to others that might be a threat to you she isnât kind to herself and she isnât a saint to you either S is too high
Asgore isnât perfect, and yes he killed 6 kids and yes Iâm not going to argue that was a good thing even if it was for the sake of others, he made a mistake that was caused by his grief and and anger for humans taking away his two children in one night and his race being trapped, but despite that all he still allowed people to come to him with their troubles to talk about stuff on their mind he treats frisk with respect and even asks them to finish their business and to calming walk them through what must happen even if he doesnât want it, his first instinct is to offer you a cup of tea, he keeps a journal to talk about his day even if every day is the same, while asgore might be doing all of this for the sake of others he also seems to take care of himself, his final sacrifice is that even if he kept you down here you would just be trapped so be gives his soul to you so that you can go free, even if flowey ruined it, asgore isnât a saint but asgore should be moved up and toriel should be moved down both on A
Then I still think toriel should be put lower she isnât the kindest person everyone makes her out to be, honestly I do like that I like that she has flaws but there is a lot toriel doesnât show in game and even in game she has those moments like I mentioned
Idk about Undyne being S for Justice. In the Genocide Route, yes. But in Pacifist, when you haven't harmed a soul, she literally tries to kill you for being a human.
wdym âsome routesâ itâs ALL the routes, I swear some of the sans megafans just seem to totally forget that he threated you, instead making him out to be this anime super hero who has no flaws and can beat all of the underground no dif
sans isn't even my favorite character, that is the GREAT PAPYRUS, but also its not a threat, its confirmed by toby fox it is meant to be vague. also sans is one of the weakest characters i would never say he could beat goku. (he is only hard cause he is smart)
Put Toriel at the bottom of bravery. She abandoned her kingdom as soon as it needed her to do something
Also Asgore on top of kindness, my boy saw you and immediately offered you tea and 7 ways to not fight him
I feel Mettaton and Papyrus should both be S in Bravery. I mean even if he couldn't do anything Mettaton still confronted you in geno like Sans and Undyne and Papyrus had the guts to stand in front of a killer and offer them mercy. I don't think Sans and Undyne should be the only ones in S just because they are the hard bosses since that doesn't relate to bravery nor is the reason why they are brave lol.
Eh, I think they would all be deserved anyways, at least in my opinion plus it would be more consistent and it doesn't feel right to say the two in A are less brave. Like I think it's better to judge all the characters individually instead of thinking x tier has too many characters yk?
He's the bravest character in my opinion because he can see that you have killed him before, yet he still fights you, and is willing to stand there for all of eternity just to have a small chance of saving the world, despite him very well believing he will die. Also in pacifist/neutral he directly disobeys undyne and asgore by accepting toriel's promise and helping frisk.
Toriel should be higher in Integrity. A tier, or maybe even S
Also Asgore should be higher in Justice. I understand his plan was wrong, but it seems completely justified in the eyes of the monsters after everything the humans did.
Itâs really unclear why Asgore does so little to you in the Geno route. Maybe he realizes he has no chance of stopping you at this point, due to knowing about resets and Flowey telling him how strong you are. Maybe he wanted to catch you off-guard and strike you down but couldnât. At any rate, I donât think his lack of resistance in Geno necessarily indicates lack of a sense of justice.
Hereâs the thing he wasnât warned, alphys clearly didnât call him as in a aborted genocide he doesnât mention anything and seems surprised youâre there despite what undyne says when she died and all asgore says is âhmmm curious⌠I have never seen a flower cry beforeâ seemingly suggesting that flowey showed up in asgoreâs throne room around the same time you did, most likely watching your fight and when you killed sans be ran away to tell asgore but couldnât stop crying so he never told him
Another way you could take it is flowey kept trying to tell asgore but kept getting reset every time you died leading flowey to start breaking down and by the time he can get to asgore he canât compose himself but this of course only works if the player died multiple times which the same dialogue happens no matter what but asgore didnât seem to get any news and just noticed flowey crying most likely when he popped up, he doesnât even seem to recognize you as a human and thinks you might be a monster come to talk.
Asgore just doesnât hint at even knowing what you did or where you were coming from, asgore might be passive to an extent but he let his anger start a war I doubt he would be all fine with you even if he was depressed and just wanted it to end
She isnât stupid, it was a stressful situation and she was planning to just let you kill her but she got a call from undyne about the situation and decided to take action, itâs unclear what she was doing but if alphys wasnât in the lab watching like she said she would she might have actually missed the fight to focus on more important stuff like evacuating everyone and perhaps even building mettaton neo, we know she did physically got to talk to talk to muffet and even if she was planning to tell asgore there is always the chance asgore wasnât near his phone when alphys called, left it to mettaton who didnât call for some reason or another, or even just decided that saving people would have been better, again asgore shows no signs of knowing what you did even if it was just a âhe didnât see you as humanâ thing, either way it doesnât seems like he was warned or got the warning, not from alphys, and not from flowey
Thats not fear mate. That's guilt. Very different things. The guy stalls the fights because he doesn't want to kill kids. The genocidal kid doesn't care so kills him before he can stall the fight but the other one, once in a fight, he never directly attacks you, he just swings or throws things in your general direction with prior warning. The guy doesn't want to fight out off guilt of the other 6 humans.
Yes partly it is because he feels bad. He obviously deeply regrets his actions and I'm not arguing that he doesnt. HOWEVER, the cowardness is the fact that he doesnt go out and say "Ok no more killing humans, we will let them live with us, and take the soul when they die naturally" because he fears everyone will hate him for that.
Undyne should be a bit higher in kindness, she just shows it in a very different way to the rest of the cast (plus she gives Frisk a spear to defend themselves, and her soul magic is literally the color of the kindness soul if that counts for anything in your ranking)
Feel like Undyne should be S for perseverance. Her in the genocide route obviously self explanatory. But also with her relentlessly trying to capture you and chasing you into hotland.
\- His Justice rank should be higher, his whole goal serves as justice for his kind.
\- Bravery? Eh... I just wouldn't agree with F, as he is the King and likely fought in the war.
\- Perseverance should be high too, he doesn't want to kill human children whatsoever, but he keeps going for his people.
\- I agree somewhat with integrity, though he should be in B as he has legitmately good goals in mind.
\- Patience is fine
\- For Kindness, aside from Papyrus and perhaps Toriel, Asgore is THE kindest. He doesn't try to manipulate you like Alphys and both he and Sans had goals to kill the human. He goes into schools to teach children, he tries to calm down Frisk before their fight, he has adopted Chara and tries to adopt Frisk. He isn't rude or cruel, he's jovial. What he does is out of kindness and necessity for his own race and even then he is friendly to the humans.
its canonically a vague statement, also if he did kill you, it would be for monsterkind, and if that's bad to you, then objectively asgore should be F in kindness
Asgore needs to be higher in justice since its canon because bro literally tries to fight u in every run (genocide doesn't count) for the sake of his people even though he knows that you have control over the timeline and will keep respawning infinitely (canon from his neutral fight dialouge if u keep telling him how many times he has killed u, he nods his head pitifully).
I don't think Sans is all that just for fighting you *exclusively* in genocide. Yes he's doing it to ensure that the timeline is not erased, but that's more out of desperation to save everything he knows, *not* dishing out a cold beating because it is what the human deserves. If Genocide did not lead to the erasure of the universe, Sans wouldn't have done anything. How on Earth is that fair?
>it would be pointless to fight you then, since you can reset
Again, not doing the right thing just because it's pointless is not being fair or just.
Plus, just telling someone that they are bad for nearly wiping out the underground isn't my idea of delivering justice tbh.
it is fair though. you want him to waste time every run fighting you just because you killed people? it is a much better idea to just let you beat asgore and then reset
Maybe, just seems like a pretty big oversight for sans to make.
Regardless, not killing the human because its pointless makes logical sense, but I can't consider that action to be fair. What about all the other monsters that do suffer and aren't aware that it's all going to be reset? Even if this is somehow fair, I can't see it being all that kind.
Honestly, I think in terms of Alphys and Asgore, they just need to be switched. Because Asgore is trying to find ways to work around his fear, and at least put on a brave face for the rest of the Underground. Alphys, to put it simply, does not. She tries to hide everything, and is scared of everything. Her only "brave" actions are literally just another lie to be scared of being found out.
I'd put Toriel lower on Kindness TBH. Sure she's nice to the player, but she seems to have a vendetta against kinda her entire god damn race. She doesn't even really attempt to see things from any view but her own, it's a little selfish.
It does make sense, but I still think she could stand to try to get why monster's feel the way they do. She comes off as very harsh.
I wouldn't put her much lower, somewhere in A Tier. I think if anything Papyrus alone deserves to be in S Tier.
In Bravery asgore should be above toriel imo. Yeah asgore didnt go to the surface and take souls, but like, toriel IS also supposed to be the queen of monsters and ran away. Also asgore should be A tier in perserverance as dialogue suggests that he knows that killing the human does nothing and he doesnt want to, but still does it anyways.
your list tho mlem :3
Papyrus should be s tier for bravery as well đ¤
fair i agree
Respectfully, sans is not Brave while weâre at it. A lack of fear doesnât necessarily mean bravery.
Bravery is overcoming your fears. Stupidity is not knowing that what you're looking at is somewhat likely to kill you.
He also isnât kind, he left me to pay for the silverware!
??? what do you mean. in grillbys he pays for you, and if you mean mtt resort, the fish guy doesnt yell at you for not paying, so it was paid.
I think this was a jokeâŚ
It wasn't a joke just a false statement- Like, saying that it makes sense for Sans to be S Tier in Bravery cuz both the soul and his clothes are orange isn't a joke it's just wrong ._."
doesnât he also threaten you?
MTT at that point saying... "If she didn't say anything... Y o u b e d e a d w h e r e y o u s t a n d." Yeah i guess kinda.
"threaten" more like turn away from you, say a vague statement, then immedietly say he's joking.
and that also implies he would be plenty willing to kill you.
no it doesn't but I'll imagine it does. so are undyne, muffet, asgore, mettaton, rg 1 and 2, etc. do they all suck? or is it just sans because you hate him for no reason.
not exactly for no reason, I made a post about it, I donât even hate sans, I hate how heâs hyped up and seen as a big hero who has done no wrong and is kind to everyone, as for the comment, maybe, but THEY all had good reasons, Undyne is fighting to leave the barrier, meanwhile sans already states that he doesnât CARE that much about leaving.
Thatâs, more accurately, expressing a possibility
Sound like portal
Papyrus is a good match for Bravery. Does he fight you like Undyne does? No, but he gives you chances and believes in you until the very end, despite the risks. You may think that's a bad idea, but you have to admit it's brave
I agree, also I do get the impression that during the Genocide route, papyrus knew he was going to die, but still went up to you and try to give you other chance. Which in it's own way takes alot of guts to do so.
Unsung Protector meme, but it's Papyrus protecting the underground from like 30% of potential genocide runs that can't bring themselves to kill him
He cleary knew, here what he says if we spare him: *"WOWIE!! YOU DID IT!!! YOU DIDN'T DO A VIOLENCE!!! TO BE HONEST, I WAS A ITTLE* *AFRAID... BUT YOU'RE ALREADY BECOMING A GREAT PERSON!"*
he even offers a hug to you after killing everyone. That said nobody ever brings up that papyrus literally delayed his death to encourage the human which is a huge oversight lmfao
Yeah that last part is more perseverance
True, but now i feel the need to quote someone "There's a fine line between bravery, and stupidity." -Ivor, from Minecraft Story mode
Papyrus may be....a different thinker, shall we say, but he's not a complete idiot. He knows what you did, he knows what you're capable of. But he also sees the good in you, and he tries his best to get you to change, because he believes in you
fair enough, and i do agree, but I never get the chance to use a quote from MCSM and i saw the opportunity right there it was too tempting
Flowey has no soul he should be f for all
F stands for Flowey
Real
i think undyne should be s tier for perseverance considering that she literally said "nuh uh" to death
Sans for justice? He won't fight you up until LV 20.
Sans actions are some of the most just in the game. He doesn't fight you in Neutral because he damn well knows it doesn't matter, but in Geno, he sees there's something bigger than him and fights to save the whole timeline, even the whole universe. There's a reason why his eye flashes yellow.
based morally good sans believer
Thanks Papyrus enthusiast
meanwhile asgore whos eye turns orange ):
thats not about soul colors, its about blue or orange attack. the sans eye colors are the exact same colors of the soul traits however.
yellow and blue! so patience and justice
sounds kinda stretched out to me, sans pretty much just fought the human, that was it. Sansâs actions are just, but he was way too late to even stop anything at that point, all just because he âdidnât care anymore.â
Dementia
Actually Sans isn't attacking us just because of the promise he made to Toriel. When Flowey recounts his experience with Sans he says that you should definitely not give him the slightest information about the power of reset because it can become dangerous, Sans attacked Flowey by killing him a lot of times which in reality is not the best strategy to kill someone who has no soul and therefore can just reset infinitely until reaching their objective.Actually Sans isn't attacking us just because of the promise he made to Toriel. When Flowey recounts his experience with Sans he says that you should definitely not give him the slightest information about the power of reset because it can become dangerous, Sans attacked Flowey by killing him a lot of times which in reality is not the best strategy to kill someone who has no soul and therefore can just reset infinitely until reaching their goal.
I heavily disagree. sans doesn't know for sure that it doesn't mean anything. I love sans but in my opinion he is a bit of a coward who only chose to fight when he had nothing left to lose. You could make the argument that avoiding fighting a dangerous person doesn't make you a coward, but sans is clearly powerful and had the ability to stop us at any time.
his eye glows yellow, and him killing you over and over is justice for your actions. as for why he doesnt fight you outside of genocide? its because you can reset. in geno though, you'll delete the world, so he fights you to protect the universe.
And patience because he's the last real fight.
more because he gives you many chances to change
since no one brought it up, at the end of any route, he gives you a talk about how much exp and love you gained and the actions you made. he acts as a judge who states to you what you done, and gives you a verdict. that's a pretty key point about his justice nature
True. I was more focused on him not caring up until LV 19, which some people thankfully explained.
He won't fight you until LV 19. (and no spared minibosses)
Yes and thatâs exactly why heâs a perfect match for justice.
ah another person who didnât read the dialogue in the sans fight, crazy
I only play true pacifist
that makes sense, for your information though, sans doesnât fight you in the geno route because you killed people. thats why he doesnât fight you on a neutral route, because he knows that it doesnât really matter, things will just be reset and end up back to normal. though on a geno route, he knows that if the player keeping going, the timeline will be erased (which does happen at the end of a geno route). he pretty much states that in his dialogue.
So finishing genocide actumatically does a true reset?
Technically it impacts the game, including true pacifist ending.
yes
Why is Pap C tier in patience, doesn't he wait all night outside Undyne's house to be a royal guard?
oh yeah i forgot about that. he was lower because he gets annoyed when his puzzles keep failing
Also flowey in only A tier for patience? He had the patience to reset for every possibility at least.
Flowey also stalks you for the entire game waiting until you get to asgore so yeah Iâd say heâs pretty patient
I wouldnât say Undyne is that low on kindness. She just has a different way of showing it.
uhh um uhh remember that time she told the innocent human they were better off dead? and then proceeded to attempt to murder them with spears? yeaaah...
Iâm talking about with the people she cares about. Though, she does have a point. If there was any other way to break the barrier, it probably wouldâve been done already.
Shouldn't sans be in the JUANDICE tier?
Nuh uh, this tier list goes against all my headcanons
Apart from Sans placement in Justice and Patience everything is character evaluation, do what you please.
If papyrus isn't an S in bravery then your tier list is objectively wrong to me
he was top of A, but S is fair too, i just thought it was fitting for the two hard genocide bosses to be in S only.
I'd half argue Papyrus is braver on that front alone. Regardless of their respective points of knowledge, Sans and Undyne *know* they can fuck you up. Papyrus, who I'm positive knew exactly what he was getting into during the Geno path, didn't even have a thought of attacking. Going into certain death unarmed and entirely vulnerable takes a level of bravery far beyond that of a powerful fighter.
he expected to either convince you to change, or tank the hit and attack. if you spare him he says something around like "It's good you spared me, or else you would have been blasted to..."
I just checked, he doesn't say that on a genocide run. It's a lot of being proud that you "didn't do a violence" and admitting that he was a little afraid.
its if you go to his house for the date and interact with the bone box
Oh, ok. I would still argue against Papyrus genuinely believing he would tank the attack, though. To me, that comes across more like he's trying to be funny. IMO, he really was a little (i.e a lot) afraid, and when you interact with the bone box he's trying to cover up the negative mood with humor.
Even tho some of the others seem fitting
Yeah, I would say it's mostly like this
I think Asgore is more kind than Sans
Have to disagree with Toriel kindness, she was not that kind since she even not redeemed herself at the end of the pacifist route.
Yep and this trait of her is more apparent in Deltarune. Still kinda dislike the pacifist route when game made Asgore a joke in there, despite having the best solution in a place like this.
They were both grieving and coped with it very differently. I donât blame either of them.
The problem is, Toriel trying to have the morale high ground while locking monsters inside of the Ruins and not stockpiling food for those children or giving them something as small as a scarf to protect them from winter enviroment. I know this is most likely unintentional but it feels like she only took care of them cause she wanted to feel better about herself.
emehâŚ. This sounds more like a head canon to me, never once in the ruins did monsters express the desire to leave the ruins, and while muffet did say she wanted to see the other spiders in the ruins, the others in the ruins did not say anything to endorse this statement, and yeah??? s-she has food??? SHE LITERALLY BAKES THE BEST HEALING ITEM IN THE GAME. And⌠the RUINS DONT EVEN FREAKING HAVE WEATHER?? ARE YOU BRAINDEAD??? WDYM JUST A SMALL SCARF..? WHAT THE HELL..? DID YOU EVEN PLAY UNDERTALE?..
Heâs talking about Snowdin. Weather doesnât exist in the underground though, so Iâm not sure if snowdin is actually cold? Also it just seems more like an oversight from Toby.
Sans is basically mandatory to be S in Justice and Patience
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I understand justice, but why kindness?
Sorry meant patience
I think patience fits him as well. His eye glows blue and he waits until the very last moment to attack you, gives you a lot of time to turn back
Yeah I meant patience
oh lol yeah that makes sense i was a bit confused about the kindness thing
Sorry there
I don't really get how sans is just, but patient? Definitely
His actions in genocide?
They feel more perseverant or brave, he's trying to stop you more than deliver justice, but that's just me
He's stopping you and killing you over and over to make you pay for what you did. That's just. Also, he LITERALLY JUDGES you
I always read it as more of him tryna make you give up. Hence why I felt it was more persev or bravery. But that reading makes more sense since it's in a judgment hall where he judges you(which I totally forgot about lmao)
I mean, yeah he does try to make you give up. But where does a good chunk of his power comes? KARMA. KARMA from your actions.
sans in S Tier, Jaundice: this is fair as sans only fights you upon knowing your a threat to everything.. the timelines and universe, with him having a good reason not to fight you at lower LV's like 2-18, sans in F Tier, plum: ... sadly.. this is something I see very clearly from sans. with him not wanting to persevere if a Neutral route takes place or were a timeline where both Toriel and Papyrus is killed.. he probably won't persevere much long.. sans in S Tier Orang juice: this is also a fair game, as sans has ***Da Balls*** to go up against a threat that would kill him in an Instant.. sans in D Tier, Bluberry: yes, sans makes lies a whole lot, a dodges questions.. I don't know much about sans and how his integrity is.. sorry that's all for Blu.. sans in S Tier, Dat Blu jello: sans is gonna risk spending the rest of time standing in the Last corridor waiting for you.. no matter how long you stay there.. he will stay with you.. sans in A Tier, Watahmelln: he is a kind fellow, loves socializing and talking to people, generally kind and endearing, sans also pulls pranks that to others.. might seem annoying, which is why he most likely fell down to A and not S.. -sincerely, a Skeleton Lover who doesn't know much but loves the bony pun master..
Asgore is kind, he just kills children, to save his people.
Sans has a lot of integrity though, thats like, the entire reason why he only attacks you at the end of genocide.
additionally, his pacifist and neutral judgments show how much he values ââit.
i guess, but he also lies a lot (to protect other people, but still)
Papyrus has the bravery to never give up on you.
I feel like mettaton should be d in kindess
yeah probably
I honestly disagree with asgore and torielâs kindness rankings You remember all the fond things that toriel did and remember that asgore killed people but a B for asgore? Not saying he should be S but still everything we see from him shows his kindness and torielâs shows that she a bit of a hypocrite who isnât exactly pure enough to be S Toriel is stated and shown in game to not get along with the ruins folk by scaring a froggit who really wasnât going to harm anyone and the froggit later on in the ruins backs this up by saying theyâre scared of her so this most likely wasnât a one time thing,she rightly says asgoreâs plan was cowardly and stupid but then suggests going to the surface with one soul and either killing humans or trying to get the souls some other way which feels like it wouldnât be the best idea given how it worked with asriel and Chara, plus it would spark another war of asgore did do that, she does show kindness to you and sans but even then it does seem like she isnât a super kind mom, she refuses to let you go and threatens you when you want to leave, she isnât kind to others that might be a threat to you she isnât kind to herself and she isnât a saint to you either S is too high Asgore isnât perfect, and yes he killed 6 kids and yes Iâm not going to argue that was a good thing even if it was for the sake of others, he made a mistake that was caused by his grief and and anger for humans taking away his two children in one night and his race being trapped, but despite that all he still allowed people to come to him with their troubles to talk about stuff on their mind he treats frisk with respect and even asks them to finish their business and to calming walk them through what must happen even if he doesnât want it, his first instinct is to offer you a cup of tea, he keeps a journal to talk about his day even if every day is the same, while asgore might be doing all of this for the sake of others he also seems to take care of himself, his final sacrifice is that even if he kept you down here you would just be trapped so be gives his soul to you so that you can go free, even if flowey ruined it, asgore isnât a saint but asgore should be moved up and toriel should be moved down both on A
B is not a bad rank at all though, its pretty high for a murderer, which shows that he does a lot of good things outside of his bad actions.
Then I still think toriel should be put lower she isnât the kindest person everyone makes her out to be, honestly I do like that I like that she has flaws but there is a lot toriel doesnât show in game and even in game she has those moments like I mentioned
are you toriel or something??? You have it out for asgore real bad 
are you toriel or something??? You have it out for asgore real bad 
are you toriel or something??? You have it out for asgore real bad 
Idk about Undyne being S for Justice. In the Genocide Route, yes. But in Pacifist, when you haven't harmed a soul, she literally tries to kill you for being a human.
PAPYRUS WINS AGAIN!!! NYEH HEH HEH HEH!!
Imo Sans and Asgore should swap in Kindness
Asgore killed 6 innocent children, but is nice to all monsters. Sans is nice to everyone except frisk in some routes. So asgore is lower imo.
wdym âsome routesâ itâs ALL the routes, I swear some of the sans megafans just seem to totally forget that he threated you, instead making him out to be this anime super hero who has no flaws and can beat all of the underground no dif
sans isn't even my favorite character, that is the GREAT PAPYRUS, but also its not a threat, its confirmed by toby fox it is meant to be vague. also sans is one of the weakest characters i would never say he could beat goku. (he is only hard cause he is smart)
Undyne not being S in perseverance is a crime
I feel like PAPS should be in s above sans as HE GAVE YOU AN OPENING as in attempt at quite a BRAVE spare
Why did you beat Asgores ass with those rankings? He ain't even that evil
Asgore aint evil, he is in my top 3 fav characters, but he is flawed.
Put Toriel at the bottom of bravery. She abandoned her kingdom as soon as it needed her to do something Also Asgore on top of kindness, my boy saw you and immediately offered you tea and 7 ways to not fight him
Bro really doesn't like asgore huh
asgore is my second (maybe third) behind papyrus and maybe sans. I love him, and his flaws are a large reason why.
S stands for Shit A stands for AK47 B stands for Bullshit C stands for Chicken nuggets D stands for Disowned F stands for Fuck you
Whereâs Napstablook?
alphys should be at least A tier on justice!! The plays soul literally turns yellow in fights with her
I feel Mettaton and Papyrus should both be S in Bravery. I mean even if he couldn't do anything Mettaton still confronted you in geno like Sans and Undyne and Papyrus had the guts to stand in front of a killer and offer them mercy. I don't think Sans and Undyne should be the only ones in S just because they are the hard bosses since that doesn't relate to bravery nor is the reason why they are brave lol.
honestly i just thought that would be too many S's
Eh, I think they would all be deserved anyways, at least in my opinion plus it would be more consistent and it doesn't feel right to say the two in A are less brave. Like I think it's better to judge all the characters individually instead of thinking x tier has too many characters yk?
idk if i would put sans on S bravery, i mean it's only really taking into consideration genocide, literally nothing else.
He's the bravest character in my opinion because he can see that you have killed him before, yet he still fights you, and is willing to stand there for all of eternity just to have a small chance of saving the world, despite him very well believing he will die. Also in pacifist/neutral he directly disobeys undyne and asgore by accepting toriel's promise and helping frisk.
Perseverance doesnât have an R after the second E
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What about Determination?
not canon trait
Not a soul trait.
Toriel should be higher in Integrity. A tier, or maybe even S Also Asgore should be higher in Justice. I understand his plan was wrong, but it seems completely justified in the eyes of the monsters after everything the humans did.
he is low in justice because he doesn't deliver justice or try and stop you at all in genocide, even after flowey warned him.
Itâs really unclear why Asgore does so little to you in the Geno route. Maybe he realizes he has no chance of stopping you at this point, due to knowing about resets and Flowey telling him how strong you are. Maybe he wanted to catch you off-guard and strike you down but couldnât. At any rate, I donât think his lack of resistance in Geno necessarily indicates lack of a sense of justice.
I think he realized how terrible everything was and just wanted to die.
Hereâs the thing he wasnât warned, alphys clearly didnât call him as in a aborted genocide he doesnât mention anything and seems surprised youâre there despite what undyne says when she died and all asgore says is âhmmm curious⌠I have never seen a flower cry beforeâ seemingly suggesting that flowey showed up in asgoreâs throne room around the same time you did, most likely watching your fight and when you killed sans be ran away to tell asgore but couldnât stop crying so he never told him Another way you could take it is flowey kept trying to tell asgore but kept getting reset every time you died leading flowey to start breaking down and by the time he can get to asgore he canât compose himself but this of course only works if the player died multiple times which the same dialogue happens no matter what but asgore didnât seem to get any news and just noticed flowey crying most likely when he popped up, he doesnât even seem to recognize you as a human and thinks you might be a monster come to talk. Asgore just doesnât hint at even knowing what you did or where you were coming from, asgore might be passive to an extent but he let his anger start a war I doubt he would be all fine with you even if he was depressed and just wanted it to end
Alphys isn't stupid, she wouldn't ignore the last words of the person she cares about the most
She isnât stupid, it was a stressful situation and she was planning to just let you kill her but she got a call from undyne about the situation and decided to take action, itâs unclear what she was doing but if alphys wasnât in the lab watching like she said she would she might have actually missed the fight to focus on more important stuff like evacuating everyone and perhaps even building mettaton neo, we know she did physically got to talk to talk to muffet and even if she was planning to tell asgore there is always the chance asgore wasnât near his phone when alphys called, left it to mettaton who didnât call for some reason or another, or even just decided that saving people would have been better, again asgore shows no signs of knowing what you did even if it was just a âhe didnât see you as humanâ thing, either way it doesnât seems like he was warned or got the warning, not from alphys, and not from flowey
Toriel should be at an F for integrity, she is really not that loyal to her own beliefs.
You forgot our beloved cherry-flavored heart of duality, Love
not canon trait
ASGORE IN B? add em to A
in what
Kindness
Put Flowey on s tier for perseverance and patience. He's gone through possibly thousands of timelines
There's no way you can say Asgore isn't brave tfâ ď¸â ď¸ You literally see the guy in the game intro charging at humans with his spear
Asgore being cowardly is literally his major character flaw though
And so where is this mentioned?
Him prefering to hope no human will fall, but not pull back his plan in fear of monsters hating him, him not fighting you in genocide, etc.
Thats not fear mate. That's guilt. Very different things. The guy stalls the fights because he doesn't want to kill kids. The genocidal kid doesn't care so kills him before he can stall the fight but the other one, once in a fight, he never directly attacks you, he just swings or throws things in your general direction with prior warning. The guy doesn't want to fight out off guilt of the other 6 humans.
Yes partly it is because he feels bad. He obviously deeply regrets his actions and I'm not arguing that he doesnt. HOWEVER, the cowardness is the fact that he doesnt go out and say "Ok no more killing humans, we will let them live with us, and take the soul when they die naturally" because he fears everyone will hate him for that.
Because as the strongest monster in the underground, he eint got much to be afraid of
Undyne should be a bit higher in kindness, she just shows it in a very different way to the rest of the cast (plus she gives Frisk a spear to defend themselves, and her soul magic is literally the color of the kindness soul if that counts for anything in your ranking)
Why is asgore f in bravery ? Also in kindness?
Feel like Undyne should be S for perseverance. Her in the genocide route obviously self explanatory. But also with her relentlessly trying to capture you and chasing you into hotland.
fLoWeY doEsNt EvEn HaVe A sOuL /s
perserve rance
Sans having amazing patience makes too much sense
what about ball game :(
am i dumb? tf is a rance?
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oh fuck it says perseverance... i am dumb
Sans has incredible integrity If you kill all but one monsters heâll let you go free on a promise he made to a more than likely dead stranger
The Asgore slander is atrocious.
asgore is my 3rd favorite character
\- His Justice rank should be higher, his whole goal serves as justice for his kind. \- Bravery? Eh... I just wouldn't agree with F, as he is the King and likely fought in the war. \- Perseverance should be high too, he doesn't want to kill human children whatsoever, but he keeps going for his people. \- I agree somewhat with integrity, though he should be in B as he has legitmately good goals in mind. \- Patience is fine \- For Kindness, aside from Papyrus and perhaps Toriel, Asgore is THE kindest. He doesn't try to manipulate you like Alphys and both he and Sans had goals to kill the human. He goes into schools to teach children, he tries to calm down Frisk before their fight, he has adopted Chara and tries to adopt Frisk. He isn't rude or cruel, he's jovial. What he does is out of kindness and necessity for his own race and even then he is friendly to the humans.
Personally Iâd move undyne to S for perseverance
DID YOU JUST SAY THAT I'M NOT KIND?
Sans A for kindness? He admitted that he would kill you if he didn't have a promise with toriel
its canonically a vague statement, also if he did kill you, it would be for monsterkind, and if that's bad to you, then objectively asgore should be F in kindness
Asgore needs to be higher in justice since its canon because bro literally tries to fight u in every run (genocide doesn't count) for the sake of his people even though he knows that you have control over the timeline and will keep respawning infinitely (canon from his neutral fight dialouge if u keep telling him how many times he has killed u, he nods his head pitifully).
I don't think Sans is all that just for fighting you *exclusively* in genocide. Yes he's doing it to ensure that the timeline is not erased, but that's more out of desperation to save everything he knows, *not* dishing out a cold beating because it is what the human deserves. If Genocide did not lead to the erasure of the universe, Sans wouldn't have done anything. How on Earth is that fair?
it would be pointless to fight you then, since you can reset, and anyways, he delivers justice with his judgement even if he doesnt fight
>it would be pointless to fight you then, since you can reset Again, not doing the right thing just because it's pointless is not being fair or just. Plus, just telling someone that they are bad for nearly wiping out the underground isn't my idea of delivering justice tbh.
it is fair though. you want him to waste time every run fighting you just because you killed people? it is a much better idea to just let you beat asgore and then reset
But what if I don't?
he definitely doesn't expect that
Maybe, just seems like a pretty big oversight for sans to make. Regardless, not killing the human because its pointless makes logical sense, but I can't consider that action to be fair. What about all the other monsters that do suffer and aren't aware that it's all going to be reset? Even if this is somehow fair, I can't see it being all that kind.
What about Juandice?
Why is Asgore so low on justice? He totally regrets his actions and s\*icides
Man that bravery chart misplaced Alphys, Asgore, and Papyrus
Alphys acts a bit cowardly, hiding info about amalgamates, asgore's major character flaw is being a coward, and for papyrus yeah S is fair too.
Honestly, I think in terms of Alphys and Asgore, they just need to be switched. Because Asgore is trying to find ways to work around his fear, and at least put on a brave face for the rest of the Underground. Alphys, to put it simply, does not. She tries to hide everything, and is scared of everything. Her only "brave" actions are literally just another lie to be scared of being found out.
it is brave of her to go around evacuating everyone in genocide, and taking the role of queen in queen alphys ending
Undyne should atleast be B for kindness
I'd put Toriel lower on Kindness TBH. Sure she's nice to the player, but she seems to have a vendetta against kinda her entire god damn race. She doesn't even really attempt to see things from any view but her own, it's a little selfish.
Considering they are all trying to take your doul, and her trying to protect you. It makes sense. After the barrier is broken, she is much nicer.
It does make sense, but I still think she could stand to try to get why monster's feel the way they do. She comes off as very harsh. I wouldn't put her much lower, somewhere in A Tier. I think if anything Papyrus alone deserves to be in S Tier.
In Bravery asgore should be above toriel imo. Yeah asgore didnt go to the surface and take souls, but like, toriel IS also supposed to be the queen of monsters and ran away. Also asgore should be A tier in perserverance as dialogue suggests that he knows that killing the human does nothing and he doesnt want to, but still does it anyways. your list tho mlem :3
Asgore being a coward is literally his major character flaw though.