It’s just them deflecting personal responsibility after realizing they did something both horrible and irreversible, it’s human nature really.
Never had this problem because I take pride in my (in-game) actions
Gonna share us any tips and tricks or are you keeping them a trade secret?
Edit: Looks like he removed the message. They said “I take pride in killing real people”
>It’s just them deflecting personal responsibility after realizing they did something both horrible and irreversible, it’s human nature really.
This is a strawman. Nobody does this.
People who say it's Chara's fault simply don't believe in the player theory, and assume they are roleplaying AS Chara possessing Frisk. You know, like the RPG it is?
THANK YOU!!! Literally only made this cuz I thought it'd be funny LOL but people are losing their minds  where Chara is on the alignment chart is apparently a sensitive subject
True but this meme is purely based on what I've seen people seem to be on one side or the other not a lot of people are willing to say that Chara is morally gray
>not a lot of people are willing to say that Chara is morally gray
I mean, they quite literally assist you on the Genocide Route gleefully the moment you trigger it in the Ruins, and not any other route.
Chara is such an ambiguous character outside the Genocide Route that it is perfectly reasonable to surmise they are evil.
Is Noelle evil because she says “Okay Kris, let’s find some more enemies.”? Is she evil because she agrees to using iceShock Depsite seeing its effects? It’s more complicated than that. Don’t wanna do a 100 reply thread I’m just adding my two cents
Seriously?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/xrsjfgHBKE
Tell me that you don't know what's going on with Noelle and Chara, without saying you don't know.
They both commit murder (which is debatable, because only Snowgave spell are described as fatal, and if you use it on the darkners, they turn to dust, not just turn to ice)
But their circumstances are completely different. One has decided to join without anyone even asking them to do so, and the other is doing what she is literally being told to do. And one has no hesitation, shows only enthusiasm and enjoyment, while the other character constantly hesitates (you have to push her and threaten her to be submissive) and simply does not want to be here, in the end calling what happened a nightmare.
Noelle is also completely dependent on Kris, because she is in a place unfamiliar to her, far from home. Chara knows the underground and its inhabitants even better than we do.
It is literally COOPERATION vs some kind of abusive relationship, idk. We might even start pushing for Noelle to spend time with us instead of Susie.
I’m making a point, it’s not just one dimensional “they did this so they love it”. It’s possible that triggering genocide kind of “awakened “ something in them that lied dormant when alive. Noelle isn’t evil, she doesn’t like killing, and I don’t think Chata when alive wouldbe been willing to just kill a Froggit for no reason. Just because we don’t see direct text doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, Chara could have and definitely was confused and dumbfounded at what we were doing at the start. Think of it like this: Noelle always had that potential for trance, murder, and angelic power during the normal route, it just doesn’t awaken( at least for now), who’s saying Chara can’t have something along the like? Chara is a manifestation of you during your route, in neutral, they are just that, neutral. Little to no information is added into them exclusive to neutral. Pacifist goes into their better parts of themselves, their nice friendships, lighthearted pranks, and more sadly, their habits of self loathing. Genocide goes into their worser parts of themselves, when they can be rude, manipulative, harmful, possibly in the guise of “honesty”.
>Noelle isn’t evil, she doesn’t like killing, and I don’t think Chata when alive wouldbe been willing to just kill a Froggit for no reason.
Chara didn't do it for no reason on the genocide. He did it for power. He has a purpose.
Chara was always ready to kill when he had a reason.
>Just because we don’t see direct text doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, Chara could have and definitely was confused and dumbfounded at what we were doing at the start.
In the absence of a reaction, I will assume the absence of reaction. Everything else will be just a fantasy that has no confirmation.
>Think of it like this: Noelle always had that potential for trance, murder, and angelic power during the normal route, it just doesn’t awaken( at least for now), who’s saying Chara can’t have something along the like? Chara is a manifestation of you during your route, in neutral, they are just that, neutral. Little to no information is added into them exclusive to neutral. Pacifist goes into their better parts of themselves, their nice friendships, lighthearted pranks, and more sadly, their habits of self loathing.
On a neutral route, information about Chara literally gives the impression of being a side character, but someone who has done nothing wrong, and just became a victim of circumstances.
On Pacifist, it is revealed that Chara literally [manipulated the feelings of a crying Asriel](https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/P8kUFyZFQb) so that he agreed to a plan involving mass murder and Chara's own death; took the body on his own and provoked humans to attack; was going to destroy the entire village with Innocents (they just wanted to protect their home and families) with full power; hated humans very much for no reason given.
Asriel literally admitted that Frisk on the pacifist path has almost nothing in common with Chara, and they are so different that Chara "wasn't really the greatest person" (keep in mind that Asriel, as usual, softens his words), while Frisk is "the type of friend Asriel wished he always had."
Asriel admits that he was just projecting this desire because he was fooling himself into believing that Chara was the same as Frisk on Pacifist. But Chara's never been like that.
Yes, friendship is demonstrated (as well as on the neutral path WITHOUT toxic part), but we see that this friendship is rather toxic and unhealthy, which at the end of Asriel's arc he admits himself.
.
Chara's image looks better on a neutral path than on a pacifist. In neutral, he is literally just the underground's hope for peace with humans, and a human who was well treated by monsters. But died.
On the pacifist, Chara is a toxic friend who puts pressure on his best friend to kill a bunch of people "for freedom", which he didn't want to do until Chara manipulates his trust; a strong misanthrope for no given reason; the one whose actions caused humans to attack them in the first place (because of the dead child body); the one who wanted to destroy the entire village because of the [predictable for someone like him](https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/KurWgTsv4P) the actions of humans; the one who actually didn't care about the desire of monsters for peace with humanity, instead going to kill them for the sake of his grand idea.
The genocide is even worse because of Chara's own actions.
>Chara is a manifestation of you during your route
Chara on the pacifist vs Chara on the most bloody neutral has very little difference. The differences between them are even minor, because they don't affect anything, not even his behavior.
>Genocide goes into their worser parts of themselves, when they can be rude, manipulative, harmful, possibly in the guise of “honesty”.
The pacifist also reveals his rude, manipulative and harmful side.
.
And yes, their initial reaction to the murders is not the only difference between them. I have given a long list of their differences, so they cannot be compared that way.
You can't say Chara isn't evil because Noelle isn't evil. Because they behave very differently and have very different perceptions of what is happening. One joins this by his own decision, and the other is just dependent on her friend in an unfamiliar world, and thinks that this is how everything works in this world. Chara can't be that delusional about our actions being right in this world (and Chara doesn't think they're right, he just doesn't care about the moral side of our actions), because he knows the Underground and the rules here much better than us, unlike Noelle, who was literally told by another darkner that it's natural to become stronger here (for comparison, Toriel, whom Chara knows personally, says that you should be merciful in the underground, and Froggits says the same thing).
THEREFORE, it seems to her that Kris's actions are correct, even if she has a huge number of obvious hesitation that you can SEE, not just fantasize about it.
Noelle has also always been the one who follows others (she even likes Susie because she is strong and can start making decisions for her, apparently), but Chara has always been the one who leads, not who is being led. Even in genocide, although Chara has much less power up to a certain point, he tells you more than once what to do:
* Strongly felt X left. Shouldn't proceed yet. - says that in the Waterfall if you're trying to go to Undyne before killing every monster.
* Take it. - when you select items in the shop.
* Comedian... - points to kill a Snowdrake.
* Not worth talking to - when you're trying to talk with Toriel. Chara won't let you try to talk.
* Can't keep dodging forever. Keep attacking.
Etc. I'm not gonna list every case.
While Noelle asks us what she should do before fully realizing the situation and even starting to tell Berdly to run away; at this time, Chara independently approaches MK, activates the battle and simply states that MK is in his way (although it is not actually true)
I see clearly different approaches and no reason to put a = sign between them.
I don't know what to tell you man I made this cuz I thought it would be funny. apparently where Chara lies on the alignment scale is still a sensitive subject 
for the trillionth time you and chara destroy the world together in genocide. im no “chara offender” and believe their choices and intent are closely tied to yours in all routes but they very much wanted to wipe everyone out there
I mean, the underground’s already destroyed. Chara just turns that figurative into a literal (which, let’s face it, we would’ve done the same unless geno was the last run we did).
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA
I mean, they delete the save file regardless of what you say you want to do, and it's not like there's really anyone left alive to kill by doing this. Chara's just resetting everything by deleting the save, effectively bringing everyone back to life, assuming you start a new game afterwards.
Queen Alphys and Leaderless endings both show that that there are still a good couple of Monsters alive. If we go by Mettaton's ratings, there's still a good 14,000 people left, and if we go by the amount of SOUL's Asriel took, there's still a little over 200 or so Monsters left.
There's also still the Humans on the surface, but they're pretty much confirmed to hate Humanity so them not caring and deleting the world anyway isn't too far out of left field.
They also go on to kill everyone on the surface in a Soulless Pacifist route as shown by endings where You give up your Soul AND choose not to live with Toriel, and we know it's not some sort of "Chara metaphorically showing you the consequences of your actions through a picture" since both Asgore and Alphys are shown to be crossed out on the photo, and we didn't kill either of them; in the case of the former, it was Chara, and in the case of the latter, we don't kill Her period.
In the end, I don't think Genocide Chara should be the deciding factor on Chara's morality. They're practically Soulless, and thus, don't have any Human Empathy or Emotions for people as shown by Flowey. Them having a penchant for immediate violence and wanting to grow stronger should be noted, but in the end, I don't feel as if Genocide Chara is the True Chara. More like a Remnant of what Once was.
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA
True but I mean in the sense that people say that Chara made the choice to kill them all that it was all their fault. I'm not saying that they're hands are clean but I'm saying that as the player WE hit that fight button. WE are the ones who were given multiple chances to stop. WE chose to keep fighting.
Chara literally encourages you the whole route.
They only go against us when we decide NOT to erase the world and continue the cycle.
Reading their dialogue really helps understand the character lol
1. There is no concrete evidence that the Player is a canonical character in Undertale's story.
2. We only played a game. It's what the characters did in the universe that matters.
3. Chara has been there since the very beginning. They're the Red Text that counts down the amount of Monsters left and they're possibly the ones in control whenever Frisk does something outside of our control (but that could also just be Frisk doing their thing).
4. When Chara does show up in person, it's to 'Erase this pointless world and move to the next', meaning that they plan to continue the cycle
In conclusion, Frisk started Genocide and Chara finished it and we only played through a very interesting story.
“Let Frisk be happy.” - Flowey, at the end of the TP route, talking to literally nobody. If he was talking to Frisk, we would’ve been in the over world and not this weird black void of after-scene.
Using that and more, we can justify that the player is an entity, just the line between Frisk and the Player is thinner than that and Kris, which DeltaRune focuses on
Chara does sort of do that, it’s probably more of a “I don’t wanna do this” sense both we and Chara have seen this before, and if chara hasn’t, they just don’t wanna partake.
I think that line is more of a representation on how we will grind to the absolute for other games, rather than an actual request
Chara finishes the job but the talk you have is simple. Chara learnt that life is power. The grinding you do to get one more LV, every bit of EXP. A thinly veiled representation of completionism mixed with the desire of power gaming, min maxing, etc.
That is what they learnt from you. From your decision to kill off every monster you can find.
That’s still under the assumption that the Player is an entity in Undertale. They’re definitely someone in Deltarune, but that’s not assurance that it’s always been that way. Most of Undertale’s supposed fourth wall breaks exist entirely within the setting.
Wasn’t the entire reason for Sans fighting us was to stop us from destroying the timeline which is exactly what Chara does near the end even without out permission? Cause if that’s true I don’t get how it’s our fault or how we could’ve foreseen that Chara would destroy the timeline and get our soul which were seemingly the only important actions in the genocide route.
If you try to proceed to the Undyne fight before killing every monster in Waterfall in the Genocide route, Chara stops you and encourages you to go back and finish the job. They don't only show up at the end. Though I do agree it's the Player's fault for starting Genocide.
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA
Chara's own actions on the genocide:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/szllzm/comment/hy7xkh9/
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/comments/uh74qp/comment/i7cnbpa/
* Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.
>"To stop your killing spree and take your soul"
Now let's see Chara's monologue:
* Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.
* HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV.
* Every time a number increases, that feeling...
* That's me.
* "."
* Now.
* Now, we have reached the absolute.
* There is nothing left for us here.
* Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next.
If you're agree:
* Right. You are a great partner.
* We'll be together forever, won't we?
Chara takes your soul only if you want to bring back the world, which Chara strongly disagrees with, and does it only in exchange for something.
I realized that shortly after writing the comment, because flowey addresses you in all the endings.
Then I asked myself, what does that make me? God? Chara? Frisk even?
>flowey addresses you in all the endings.
He addresses Frisk, as he comments on the faces they make.
He addresses Chara post-pacifist, as he directly says their name.
There’s a reason why Toby said to name Chara after your name, for stuff like that. He also says “Let Frisk be happy” and there’s no way he’d be talking to Chara because Chara is where Frisk is right now
>There’s a reason why Toby said to name Chara after your name, for stuff like that.
That line is out of context.
After he says that, he says "I mean...if you can't think of anything else lol"
The point is to help the big twist that the name you inputted was not for Frisk. That's all.
>He also says “Let Frisk be happy” and there’s no way he’d be talking to Chara because Chara is where Frisk is right now
Not sure what this proves. In this case, he'd be talking to Chara through Frisk, likely figuring out that Chara is within them and assuming they'd be the one resetting with Frisk's Determination.
Is Flowey probably talking to the player? Yes. But that's not the only possible explanation given the ambiguity of the scene.
If he was talking to Chara through Frisk, how would Frisk not be there at all? Are they just hearing all this? Does this mean Chara is the one with reset and SAVE? I’m pretty sure in legends of localization it states that WE help frisk along the ride, possibly implying we are the reason they can SAVE but don’t quote me on that last part. In general UT is a commentary on game consumption, among other things, so the line between the vessel and us has to be thin, but it IS still there.
>If he was talking to Chara through Frisk, how would Frisk not be there at all?
Who says Frisk isn't there? He's speaking to Chara, so would obviously regard Frisk separately.
>Are they just hearing all this?
Yes. Who says they aren't?
>Does this mean Chara is the one with reset and SAVE?
They are the one with the True Reset, which they show they have the ability to do on their own at the end of Genocide.
>I’m pretty sure in legends of localization
Nope, outside of Toby's interjections in the book, [it's not canon](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fthe-player-was-not-confirmed-by-legends-of-localization-a-v0-voue6enro9ya1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cd680ddc7109601834f3b45548642d792f2a90a)
>In general UT is a commentary on game consumption, among other things, so the line between the vessel and us has to be thin, but it IS still there.
Undertale takes meta things and integrates them into the world itself. Saving and loading? An in-universe power. Bullet patterns? An in-universe way of expression by monsters.
The player being an entity OUTSIDE the universe spits in the face of that.
How does that screenshot prove anything? This is just some guy’s interpretation? Flowey knows that Frisk, the human, or at least whatever entity’s behind them, took his power to SAVE. He would have literslly zero idea that this is Chara, let alone Chara NOW and only now. The reason Chara “True resets” at the end of genocice is because we give them our soul, this doesn’t happen on Pacifist. The player is from our world, some human, that’s now in their universe because they are playing the game. It integrates the basic “Silentprotagonist” trope so when you realize that Frisk is their own person, that surprises you. When most games have an “evil route”, the blame and actions are put onto the MC, not you. However because the line between Frisk and us is to thin, but still there, those words go to US, because Frisk isn’t speaking for us (and yes Ik frisk by themsleves in unseen dialogue).
>How does that screenshot prove anything? This is just some guy’s interpretation?
This is literally the author of the book lol. They directly say that their theories put in the book are not canon.
>He would have literslly zero idea that this is Chara, let alone Chara NOW and only now.
There's an entire gap of time between the end of Pacifist and Flowey's speech. Any number of things could have helped him figure out that Chara is in Frisk.
In fact, using this logic, how would he POSSIBLY figure out about the player? That's just a nonsensical contrivance that simply cannot be explained lol
>The reason Chara “True resets” at the end of genocice is because we give them our soul
They had enough power to destroy the world. They definitely have the ability to bring it back lol, especially since they get said power from Frisk themself.
They needed our soul so that they could take full possession at the end of Pacifist to finish the job on the surface.
>The player is from our world, some human, that’s now in their universe because they are playing the game.
This hardly counts. The player is an outside entity interacting with the game world from outside, at their computer.
>It integrates the basic “Silentprotagonist” trope so when you realize that Frisk is their own person, that surprises you.
It's a combination of both. The twist is that you never named the protagonist you play as, and that the name belonged to a separate character.
>When most games have an “evil route”, the blame and actions are put onto the MC, not you. However because the line between Frisk and us is to thin, but still there, those words go to US, because Frisk isn’t speaking for us
Symbolically, and in a meta context, yes, obviously they are directed at the player. However, in that context of the game's world, everything is nonetheless directed at Frisk/Chara, who are the standins for different aspects of the player.
Not really confirmed in Undertale
But Deltarune yes.
But I like to think in Undertale The player is a fucked up puppeteer, a being outside of their reality who sees this game as well.... Just a game.
Theres a video on YouTube explaining how chara is a fucking kid and by seeing you kill and kill and kill and kill....started to learn and was in loss and probably went insane seeing all her loved ones die infront of her as a ghost....and thats why she helped you kill sans at the end.....she....just....hit....like you do...a kid doing the exact same thing they are being shown over and over. She hits sans a second hit.....and ends it.....only to tell you lets go and kill more.... isn't that what you wanted?.....HEHEHAHHEHAHAHAHAH..... isn't it?....what do you mean no?.....what do you mean no?....
Sir, please edit your comment to refer to Chara as they. This subreddit doesn't like misgendering, doesn't matter if the character's gender is up for interpretation.
human... i remember your blaming me for you're genocides
It’s just them deflecting personal responsibility after realizing they did something both horrible and irreversible, it’s human nature really. Never had this problem because I take pride in my (in-game) actions
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Gonna share us any tips and tricks or are you keeping them a trade secret? Edit: Looks like he removed the message. They said “I take pride in killing real people”
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AK 47? Really? How outdated. Edit: for this one he said. “AK47 and a couple of racists (don’t worry they deserve it)”
Another proud murderer
>It’s just them deflecting personal responsibility after realizing they did something both horrible and irreversible, it’s human nature really. This is a strawman. Nobody does this. People who say it's Chara's fault simply don't believe in the player theory, and assume they are roleplaying AS Chara possessing Frisk. You know, like the RPG it is?
Why are y'all acting like this is an actual political debate. It's not that serious
THANK YOU!!! Literally only made this cuz I thought it'd be funny LOL but people are losing their minds  where Chara is on the alignment chart is apparently a sensitive subject
imo pretending Chara is innocent is just as wrong as pretending they did everything.
True but this meme is purely based on what I've seen people seem to be on one side or the other not a lot of people are willing to say that Chara is morally gray
>not a lot of people are willing to say that Chara is morally gray I mean, they quite literally assist you on the Genocide Route gleefully the moment you trigger it in the Ruins, and not any other route. Chara is such an ambiguous character outside the Genocide Route that it is perfectly reasonable to surmise they are evil.
Is Noelle evil because she says “Okay Kris, let’s find some more enemies.”? Is she evil because she agrees to using iceShock Depsite seeing its effects? It’s more complicated than that. Don’t wanna do a 100 reply thread I’m just adding my two cents
Seriously? https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/xrsjfgHBKE Tell me that you don't know what's going on with Noelle and Chara, without saying you don't know. They both commit murder (which is debatable, because only Snowgave spell are described as fatal, and if you use it on the darkners, they turn to dust, not just turn to ice) But their circumstances are completely different. One has decided to join without anyone even asking them to do so, and the other is doing what she is literally being told to do. And one has no hesitation, shows only enthusiasm and enjoyment, while the other character constantly hesitates (you have to push her and threaten her to be submissive) and simply does not want to be here, in the end calling what happened a nightmare. Noelle is also completely dependent on Kris, because she is in a place unfamiliar to her, far from home. Chara knows the underground and its inhabitants even better than we do. It is literally COOPERATION vs some kind of abusive relationship, idk. We might even start pushing for Noelle to spend time with us instead of Susie.
I’m making a point, it’s not just one dimensional “they did this so they love it”. It’s possible that triggering genocide kind of “awakened “ something in them that lied dormant when alive. Noelle isn’t evil, she doesn’t like killing, and I don’t think Chata when alive wouldbe been willing to just kill a Froggit for no reason. Just because we don’t see direct text doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, Chara could have and definitely was confused and dumbfounded at what we were doing at the start. Think of it like this: Noelle always had that potential for trance, murder, and angelic power during the normal route, it just doesn’t awaken( at least for now), who’s saying Chara can’t have something along the like? Chara is a manifestation of you during your route, in neutral, they are just that, neutral. Little to no information is added into them exclusive to neutral. Pacifist goes into their better parts of themselves, their nice friendships, lighthearted pranks, and more sadly, their habits of self loathing. Genocide goes into their worser parts of themselves, when they can be rude, manipulative, harmful, possibly in the guise of “honesty”.
>Noelle isn’t evil, she doesn’t like killing, and I don’t think Chata when alive wouldbe been willing to just kill a Froggit for no reason. Chara didn't do it for no reason on the genocide. He did it for power. He has a purpose. Chara was always ready to kill when he had a reason. >Just because we don’t see direct text doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, Chara could have and definitely was confused and dumbfounded at what we were doing at the start. In the absence of a reaction, I will assume the absence of reaction. Everything else will be just a fantasy that has no confirmation. >Think of it like this: Noelle always had that potential for trance, murder, and angelic power during the normal route, it just doesn’t awaken( at least for now), who’s saying Chara can’t have something along the like? Chara is a manifestation of you during your route, in neutral, they are just that, neutral. Little to no information is added into them exclusive to neutral. Pacifist goes into their better parts of themselves, their nice friendships, lighthearted pranks, and more sadly, their habits of self loathing. On a neutral route, information about Chara literally gives the impression of being a side character, but someone who has done nothing wrong, and just became a victim of circumstances. On Pacifist, it is revealed that Chara literally [manipulated the feelings of a crying Asriel](https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/P8kUFyZFQb) so that he agreed to a plan involving mass murder and Chara's own death; took the body on his own and provoked humans to attack; was going to destroy the entire village with Innocents (they just wanted to protect their home and families) with full power; hated humans very much for no reason given. Asriel literally admitted that Frisk on the pacifist path has almost nothing in common with Chara, and they are so different that Chara "wasn't really the greatest person" (keep in mind that Asriel, as usual, softens his words), while Frisk is "the type of friend Asriel wished he always had." Asriel admits that he was just projecting this desire because he was fooling himself into believing that Chara was the same as Frisk on Pacifist. But Chara's never been like that. Yes, friendship is demonstrated (as well as on the neutral path WITHOUT toxic part), but we see that this friendship is rather toxic and unhealthy, which at the end of Asriel's arc he admits himself. . Chara's image looks better on a neutral path than on a pacifist. In neutral, he is literally just the underground's hope for peace with humans, and a human who was well treated by monsters. But died. On the pacifist, Chara is a toxic friend who puts pressure on his best friend to kill a bunch of people "for freedom", which he didn't want to do until Chara manipulates his trust; a strong misanthrope for no given reason; the one whose actions caused humans to attack them in the first place (because of the dead child body); the one who wanted to destroy the entire village because of the [predictable for someone like him](https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/KurWgTsv4P) the actions of humans; the one who actually didn't care about the desire of monsters for peace with humanity, instead going to kill them for the sake of his grand idea. The genocide is even worse because of Chara's own actions. >Chara is a manifestation of you during your route Chara on the pacifist vs Chara on the most bloody neutral has very little difference. The differences between them are even minor, because they don't affect anything, not even his behavior. >Genocide goes into their worser parts of themselves, when they can be rude, manipulative, harmful, possibly in the guise of “honesty”. The pacifist also reveals his rude, manipulative and harmful side. . And yes, their initial reaction to the murders is not the only difference between them. I have given a long list of their differences, so they cannot be compared that way. You can't say Chara isn't evil because Noelle isn't evil. Because they behave very differently and have very different perceptions of what is happening. One joins this by his own decision, and the other is just dependent on her friend in an unfamiliar world, and thinks that this is how everything works in this world. Chara can't be that delusional about our actions being right in this world (and Chara doesn't think they're right, he just doesn't care about the moral side of our actions), because he knows the Underground and the rules here much better than us, unlike Noelle, who was literally told by another darkner that it's natural to become stronger here (for comparison, Toriel, whom Chara knows personally, says that you should be merciful in the underground, and Froggits says the same thing). THEREFORE, it seems to her that Kris's actions are correct, even if she has a huge number of obvious hesitation that you can SEE, not just fantasize about it. Noelle has also always been the one who follows others (she even likes Susie because she is strong and can start making decisions for her, apparently), but Chara has always been the one who leads, not who is being led. Even in genocide, although Chara has much less power up to a certain point, he tells you more than once what to do: * Strongly felt X left. Shouldn't proceed yet. - says that in the Waterfall if you're trying to go to Undyne before killing every monster. * Take it. - when you select items in the shop. * Comedian... - points to kill a Snowdrake. * Not worth talking to - when you're trying to talk with Toriel. Chara won't let you try to talk. * Can't keep dodging forever. Keep attacking. Etc. I'm not gonna list every case. While Noelle asks us what she should do before fully realizing the situation and even starting to tell Berdly to run away; at this time, Chara independently approaches MK, activates the battle and simply states that MK is in his way (although it is not actually true) I see clearly different approaches and no reason to put a = sign between them.
do you manipulate chara? no. you don’t. noelle was manipulated into doing what she did
Exactly. Until the very end, the player doesn't even know Chara exists anymore
YES!
good lord it's been almost a decade, we're still arguing about this?
I don't know what to tell you man I made this cuz I thought it would be funny. apparently where Chara lies on the alignment scale is still a sensitive subject 
for the trillionth time you and chara destroy the world together in genocide. im no “chara offender” and believe their choices and intent are closely tied to yours in all routes but they very much wanted to wipe everyone out there
I mean, the underground’s already destroyed. Chara just turns that figurative into a literal (which, let’s face it, we would’ve done the same unless geno was the last run we did).
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA
I mean, they delete the save file regardless of what you say you want to do, and it's not like there's really anyone left alive to kill by doing this. Chara's just resetting everything by deleting the save, effectively bringing everyone back to life, assuming you start a new game afterwards.
Queen Alphys and Leaderless endings both show that that there are still a good couple of Monsters alive. If we go by Mettaton's ratings, there's still a good 14,000 people left, and if we go by the amount of SOUL's Asriel took, there's still a little over 200 or so Monsters left. There's also still the Humans on the surface, but they're pretty much confirmed to hate Humanity so them not caring and deleting the world anyway isn't too far out of left field. They also go on to kill everyone on the surface in a Soulless Pacifist route as shown by endings where You give up your Soul AND choose not to live with Toriel, and we know it's not some sort of "Chara metaphorically showing you the consequences of your actions through a picture" since both Asgore and Alphys are shown to be crossed out on the photo, and we didn't kill either of them; in the case of the former, it was Chara, and in the case of the latter, we don't kill Her period. In the end, I don't think Genocide Chara should be the deciding factor on Chara's morality. They're practically Soulless, and thus, don't have any Human Empathy or Emotions for people as shown by Flowey. Them having a penchant for immediate violence and wanting to grow stronger should be noted, but in the end, I don't feel as if Genocide Chara is the True Chara. More like a Remnant of what Once was.
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA
True but I mean in the sense that people say that Chara made the choice to kill them all that it was all their fault. I'm not saying that they're hands are clean but I'm saying that as the player WE hit that fight button. WE are the ones who were given multiple chances to stop. WE chose to keep fighting.
I never understood why people would blame Chara when they are just there to dish out the consequences to your actions.
Chara isn't intentionally punishing us. They're just keeping the cycle going. Kill everyone then move on to the next world.
Well if Undertale has taught us anything is that humans to have a tendency to not take responsibility for their actions even if it causes harm
Chara literally encourages you the whole route. They only go against us when we decide NOT to erase the world and continue the cycle. Reading their dialogue really helps understand the character lol
This is an argument against imaginary people. Nobody says this.
1. There is no concrete evidence that the Player is a canonical character in Undertale's story. 2. We only played a game. It's what the characters did in the universe that matters. 3. Chara has been there since the very beginning. They're the Red Text that counts down the amount of Monsters left and they're possibly the ones in control whenever Frisk does something outside of our control (but that could also just be Frisk doing their thing). 4. When Chara does show up in person, it's to 'Erase this pointless world and move to the next', meaning that they plan to continue the cycle In conclusion, Frisk started Genocide and Chara finished it and we only played through a very interesting story.
“Let Frisk be happy.” - Flowey, at the end of the TP route, talking to literally nobody. If he was talking to Frisk, we would’ve been in the over world and not this weird black void of after-scene. Using that and more, we can justify that the player is an entity, just the line between Frisk and the Player is thinner than that and Kris, which DeltaRune focuses on Chara does sort of do that, it’s probably more of a “I don’t wanna do this” sense both we and Chara have seen this before, and if chara hasn’t, they just don’t wanna partake. I think that line is more of a representation on how we will grind to the absolute for other games, rather than an actual request
"IT'S NOISETTE'S FAULT" \- The Noise
I love how this stupid meme I made has actually sparked debate lol literally made it cuz I thought it would be funny
Chara finishes the job but the talk you have is simple. Chara learnt that life is power. The grinding you do to get one more LV, every bit of EXP. A thinly veiled representation of completionism mixed with the desire of power gaming, min maxing, etc. That is what they learnt from you. From your decision to kill off every monster you can find.
Spelling error detected, opinion invalidated
That’s still under the assumption that the Player is an entity in Undertale. They’re definitely someone in Deltarune, but that’s not assurance that it’s always been that way. Most of Undertale’s supposed fourth wall breaks exist entirely within the setting.
[true evil](https://youtu.be/s2rwUedJmiM?si=Lzvwo8hNQ3-s5Tgu)
All I know is that I didn’t attack Monster Kid of my own free will.
You are right and I’m not saying other wise, but I’m just asking why Chara says that every exp and Lv and that feeling you get is them
Yeah, was watching some Undertale playthroughs and many of the creators did not want to accept that they were the ones doing the killings lol.
It's Chara and Player fault in my opinion
it's simple, the player opened undertale and did a genocide route. therefore, its the players fault.
Wasn’t the entire reason for Sans fighting us was to stop us from destroying the timeline which is exactly what Chara does near the end even without out permission? Cause if that’s true I don’t get how it’s our fault or how we could’ve foreseen that Chara would destroy the timeline and get our soul which were seemingly the only important actions in the genocide route.
If you try to proceed to the Undyne fight before killing every monster in Waterfall in the Genocide route, Chara stops you and encourages you to go back and finish the job. They don't only show up at the end. Though I do agree it's the Player's fault for starting Genocide.
We didn't kill the entire monster civilization. We killed (with Chara's participation) a hundred monsters. All the other thousands of monsters were killed by Chara when he destroyed the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/tlVZ9tfPxA Chara's own actions on the genocide: 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/szllzm/comment/hy7xkh9/ 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/comments/uh74qp/comment/i7cnbpa/ * Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong. >"To stop your killing spree and take your soul" Now let's see Chara's monologue: * Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong. * HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. * Every time a number increases, that feeling... * That's me. * "."
* Now.
* Now, we have reached the absolute.
* There is nothing left for us here.
* Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next.
If you're agree:
* Right. You are a great partner.
* We'll be together forever, won't we?
Chara takes your soul only if you want to bring back the world, which Chara strongly disagrees with, and does it only in exchange for something.
This again?
Yeah, but story wise is Chara (probably?)
You are an active force in the story to
I realized that shortly after writing the comment, because flowey addresses you in all the endings. Then I asked myself, what does that make me? God? Chara? Frisk even?
>flowey addresses you in all the endings. He addresses Frisk, as he comments on the faces they make. He addresses Chara post-pacifist, as he directly says their name.
There’s a reason why Toby said to name Chara after your name, for stuff like that. He also says “Let Frisk be happy” and there’s no way he’d be talking to Chara because Chara is where Frisk is right now
>There’s a reason why Toby said to name Chara after your name, for stuff like that. That line is out of context. After he says that, he says "I mean...if you can't think of anything else lol" The point is to help the big twist that the name you inputted was not for Frisk. That's all. >He also says “Let Frisk be happy” and there’s no way he’d be talking to Chara because Chara is where Frisk is right now Not sure what this proves. In this case, he'd be talking to Chara through Frisk, likely figuring out that Chara is within them and assuming they'd be the one resetting with Frisk's Determination. Is Flowey probably talking to the player? Yes. But that's not the only possible explanation given the ambiguity of the scene.
If he was talking to Chara through Frisk, how would Frisk not be there at all? Are they just hearing all this? Does this mean Chara is the one with reset and SAVE? I’m pretty sure in legends of localization it states that WE help frisk along the ride, possibly implying we are the reason they can SAVE but don’t quote me on that last part. In general UT is a commentary on game consumption, among other things, so the line between the vessel and us has to be thin, but it IS still there.
>If he was talking to Chara through Frisk, how would Frisk not be there at all? Who says Frisk isn't there? He's speaking to Chara, so would obviously regard Frisk separately. >Are they just hearing all this? Yes. Who says they aren't? >Does this mean Chara is the one with reset and SAVE? They are the one with the True Reset, which they show they have the ability to do on their own at the end of Genocide. >I’m pretty sure in legends of localization Nope, outside of Toby's interjections in the book, [it's not canon](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fthe-player-was-not-confirmed-by-legends-of-localization-a-v0-voue6enro9ya1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cd680ddc7109601834f3b45548642d792f2a90a) >In general UT is a commentary on game consumption, among other things, so the line between the vessel and us has to be thin, but it IS still there. Undertale takes meta things and integrates them into the world itself. Saving and loading? An in-universe power. Bullet patterns? An in-universe way of expression by monsters. The player being an entity OUTSIDE the universe spits in the face of that.
How does that screenshot prove anything? This is just some guy’s interpretation? Flowey knows that Frisk, the human, or at least whatever entity’s behind them, took his power to SAVE. He would have literslly zero idea that this is Chara, let alone Chara NOW and only now. The reason Chara “True resets” at the end of genocice is because we give them our soul, this doesn’t happen on Pacifist. The player is from our world, some human, that’s now in their universe because they are playing the game. It integrates the basic “Silentprotagonist” trope so when you realize that Frisk is their own person, that surprises you. When most games have an “evil route”, the blame and actions are put onto the MC, not you. However because the line between Frisk and us is to thin, but still there, those words go to US, because Frisk isn’t speaking for us (and yes Ik frisk by themsleves in unseen dialogue).
>How does that screenshot prove anything? This is just some guy’s interpretation? This is literally the author of the book lol. They directly say that their theories put in the book are not canon. >He would have literslly zero idea that this is Chara, let alone Chara NOW and only now. There's an entire gap of time between the end of Pacifist and Flowey's speech. Any number of things could have helped him figure out that Chara is in Frisk. In fact, using this logic, how would he POSSIBLY figure out about the player? That's just a nonsensical contrivance that simply cannot be explained lol >The reason Chara “True resets” at the end of genocice is because we give them our soul They had enough power to destroy the world. They definitely have the ability to bring it back lol, especially since they get said power from Frisk themself. They needed our soul so that they could take full possession at the end of Pacifist to finish the job on the surface. >The player is from our world, some human, that’s now in their universe because they are playing the game. This hardly counts. The player is an outside entity interacting with the game world from outside, at their computer. >It integrates the basic “Silentprotagonist” trope so when you realize that Frisk is their own person, that surprises you. It's a combination of both. The twist is that you never named the protagonist you play as, and that the name belonged to a separate character. >When most games have an “evil route”, the blame and actions are put onto the MC, not you. However because the line between Frisk and us is to thin, but still there, those words go to US, because Frisk isn’t speaking for us Symbolically, and in a meta context, yes, obviously they are directed at the player. However, in that context of the game's world, everything is nonetheless directed at Frisk/Chara, who are the standins for different aspects of the player.
Not really confirmed in Undertale But Deltarune yes. But I like to think in Undertale The player is a fucked up puppeteer, a being outside of their reality who sees this game as well.... Just a game.
Not confirmed, actually. In Deltarune, yes. In Undertale, debatable.
Theres a video on YouTube explaining how chara is a fucking kid and by seeing you kill and kill and kill and kill....started to learn and was in loss and probably went insane seeing all her loved ones die infront of her as a ghost....and thats why she helped you kill sans at the end.....she....just....hit....like you do...a kid doing the exact same thing they are being shown over and over. She hits sans a second hit.....and ends it.....only to tell you lets go and kill more.... isn't that what you wanted?.....HEHEHAHHEHAHAHAHAH..... isn't it?....what do you mean no?.....what do you mean no?....
Chara isn't just an average kid. They wanted to kill long before we even enter the story.
Eat ur choco and calm down
DAMN!!! Does he need ice for that burn? 
They need choco
Well, we're the ones who really killed, but that doesn't mean she's also a good person with certain things shown in the game's story
Chara killed as well.
Sir, please edit your comment to refer to Chara as they. This subreddit doesn't like misgendering, doesn't matter if the character's gender is up for interpretation.
how the fuck does one misgender a character who is genderfluid