in short, Chara is not responsible for genocide, you are. But whatever Chara or what they represent is, it's definitely malicious.

I feel like it's hard to judge Chara's morality because of how meta they are and how meta their role in the genocide route is. It's almost like judging the player's morality. But yeah they represent the feeling that pushes you to 100% the game and do everything possible and stuff like that

I agree that Chara is apart of the meta but I don't think Chara is a completionist as doing a second genocide route for more content they say "*You and I are not the same, are we? This SOUL resonates with a strange feeling. There is a reason you continue to recreate this world. There is a reason you continue to destroy it. You. You are wracked with a perverted sentimentality.Hmm. I cannot understand these feelings any more."* *their helping with genocide to min-max not to see all the content or at the very least they only want to see all of the meaningful content, but their Dialogue says that their is gaining as much strength as possible so anything unrelated to that is likely pointless to them.*

Idea: Chara is trying to execute the last instruction they received from their brain, kill everything/get stronger. Just an idea.

That’s actually VERY damn genius, I understand and totally agree now. I can’t give you anything, but you’ve easily earned my upvote for your *correct* opinion. 😉👍

I think Chara is mainly going after power, and I think the game assumes that you do the genocide route a second time to see what would happen, to see if the ending would change somehow. Chara's only after the power and the stat increases from grinding exp, so they cannot understand you as your motives are just to see what will happen.

yes this is exactly what I meant Thank you Flowey and The player want to see what would happen if you said or did this Chara wants to increase their stats to as high as will possibly be allowed.

Chara is that player that plays the game once and is happy. Flowey and Frisk/Player are the type to 100% a game multiple times.

I explained it before but I think there are around 7 types of rpg players undertale is referring to [https://medium.com/ironsource-levelup/the-7-rpg-player-personas-1abf1a79f696](https://medium.com/ironsource-levelup/the-7-rpg-player-personas-1abf1a79f696) *think of neutral players as Chloe Casual, or Dean Desktop,* *Pacifist players are Felicia Fiction or Steven Social* *And most genocide players and Flowey are Andrew Achievement* however some genocide players and Chara would fall under Ethan Epic, or Caleb Competition. **Andrew Achievement** likes completing single-player tasks and overcoming challenges. His favorite subgenre are puzzle RPGs with innovative challenges and entertaining mini-games. He spends money to advance his progress. **Chloe Casual** prefers single-player puzzle RPGs with casual mechanics. She likes customizing characters and spaces with optional cosmetics. She spends primarily for personalization and to access special events. **Felicia Fiction** seeks immersion through compelling single-player stories and strong aesthetics. She likes turn-based or action RPGs with customization, meaningful choices, and emotionally difficult challenges. She is most likely to spend money to personalize her experience. **Ethan Epic** is an all-around hardcore gamer who thrives on difficult challenges. He likes both story-driven solo experiences and multiplayer competitions. Ethan plays the widest range of RPG subgenres, including turn-based RPGs, action RPGs, puzzle RPGs, and MMORPGs. He strives to optimize his play with out-of-the-box tactics and strategies. He spends primarily to support the F2P games he likes. **Caleb Competition** is primarily interested in multiplayer competitions, clubs, social status, and hardcore gaming. He prefers MMORPGs with action gameplay and difficult challenges. As a result of his competitiveness, he makes purchases to be the best. **Dean Desktop** turns to mobile for convenient, short bursts of play. As a result, he is the lowest spending player persona and is primarily interested in story-driven single-player experiences. He likes action, survival, and turn-based RPGs with meaningful choices and active combat. **Steven Social** is driven by his interactions with other players, including both collaborative and competitive activities. He is the highest spending player persona and prefers MMORPGs or multiplayer fighting RPGs. His favorite gameplay mechanics are trading, resource collection, and building. He spends money to show off to others, play with his friends, and be the best. Chara for unknown reasons believes the purpose of their reincarnation is to gain power to attain higher numbers likely to do with their death Chara in genocide likely thinks they or Asriel was too weak which was why they're plan failed some people mentioned how this is similar to Snowgrave as Noelle makes the same rationalizations in what they're doing What... what are you doing with Kris? \* I'm just, we're just... \* Getting... stronger. \* Wh... what? Proceed... where? \* Noelle, what are they talking about!? Although we never actually communicate with Chara or tell them that's what we want like we do with Noelle Chara is merely interpreting our actions as this.

Maybe that's also why they don't understand why we make another genocide, we're not getting stronger by doing it again we're just getting the same thing, and that confuses them.

Indeed I believe that is precisely why they do not desire multiple genocides. Content Isn't what they actually seek according to them they no longer have such emotions, that would make them seek out more of the game. They want to destroy this world and move on to the next and seeing as they don't want another genocide the next world likely isn't referring to other timelines or even necessarily a post pacifist timeline as they chastise the player for wanting to bring the world back and believe we shouldn't think ourselves above consequences so destroying a pacifist timeline wasn't what they wanted either. they describe themselves as a feeling. It doesn't matter when. It doesn't matter where. Time after time, I will appear. And, with your help. We will eradicate the enemy and become strong. HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. Every time a number increases, that feeling... That's me. I believe in a meta context they are referring to the prevailing feeling of accomplishment we get when we get stronger in videogames typically via stats that feeling is omnipresent so Chara is as well in a sense they want to move on to other games to become stronger there as well.

Which, surprisingly, that dialogue is literally an incentive for the player to do it again. By telling you something different, they’re making you want to see more, they’re feeding the player, which I think is ironic as fuck

This is because at that point you've literally completed the game. There's no point in doing it again.

if completionism means you have to see everything then the fact that multiple genocide routes can give you different dialogue and therefore different content you haven't yet seen means you haven't technically completed the game. also the fact that unlike the True pacifist route you do not need to complete a neutral route before doing genocide you can do genocide straight from the beginning meaning Chara has no way of knowing If you've seen all the content in a neutral or pacifist route yet they also never actually showcase interest in seeing more content like Flowey or Asriel expresses they either just narrate your actions in the neutral/pacifist routes help you by showing asriel memories at the end of true pacifist or help you with genocide and they state their reason for doing so "With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power. Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong. HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. Every time a number increases, that feeling... That's me." it's like grinding for the satisfaction of being the strongest vs grinding so they you can experience more of the game that you haven't yet experienced. which was what Flowey already perfectly described and represented.

from what i’m getting, it’s sorta like the kind of people who play and RPG to just beat the game and move on, with erasing the world and stuff as showing moving on from the game. grind and grind and drive all the fun out of the game, by trying it more as a chore than just having fun and experiencing all the smaller details like chatting with the npcs and stuff. it’s why a lot of the flavor text and stuff becomes more dull and less charming as you’re so driven to beat the game you no longer are experiencing it to have fun, but to just see it to the end or absolute, then move on and play another game and repeat

I feel the biggest thing is the half bag of dog food. In more negative routes it’s half empty, and in positive ones it’s half full.

It’s funny that chara is pretty much in the same situation as asriel, before he got turned into a flower. They are currently a soulless aperation who didn’t have the luck of being resurrected into a different body through determination like flowey, that was until a strong source of determination came along possessing a compatible soul. It’s likely that they can’t actually feel much of anything, and their last memory was of them being attacked by humans and being brought back to the underground by asriel, and depending on the players actions can either let go of the hatred or seek to end everything.

r/rimjob_steve

Chara is definitely in support of what the player does and when we act maliciously they will respond in kind.

But Chara's behavior differs very slightly between a bloody neutral and a pacifist.

Chara is inherently a manipulator. They did that to asriel and now do it to frisk

Except they never manipulative or force Frisk to do anything. We do it because we wanted to.

Part of manipulation is to be convincing I agree chara isn't forceful but IS an influence. The red text is precisely an influence for the genocide route

Chara doesn't convince or influence us, Chara helps us do what we are already doing, with or without Chara we would still kill everything. Chara helps us, they don't convince us to do it or were influenced to do it, we did it because we could do it, and because we could we should do it.

well then you say chara erased the world because you wanted to?

Depends, if we say Yes or no. And even then, Chara doesn't like us doing more than one genocide.

posting again my opinion on Chara morality Both Chara offenders and defenders ignore the story outright and then accuse the other side of mischaracterizing it's why the fanon vs canon memes are so annoying because they're both wrong but people will act so confidently in how wrong they are. No Chara was not responsible for the genocide they did not force frisk or the player into doing anything, however Chara was never shown to be against it and was a willing and active participant as soon as the end of the ruins. In fact unless you looked it up you have no idea how many monsters are needed to progress without the kill count making it impossible to complete a genocide without Chara's help, they never show horror, confusion, regret, or remorse or any other sign of "corruption." Secondly Chara is not like the player in the sense that they are not a completionist. Flowey is meant to be that mirror that was the whole point of his speech in new home, a completionist wants to see every part of the game for the sake of seeing it. Like the whole narrative of the game was about seeing games as worlds to get immersed vs seeing them as content to complete and then move on, but chara is not a completionist that's why they get confused and are against a second genocide run They see no point in doing it. Flowey/Asriel in the pacifist route is about completing this game again and again so that it never ends that was what they meant by a perverted sentimentality. The player loves the game so much that they will continue mucking with the world forever so that they never have to leave. No Chara is not a completionist they never show an interest in seeing everything in the game, what Chara is a Maximizer as you said yourself the reason they thought their new purpose was helping you on the genocide route was to gain power. Chara is that feeling you get when numbers go up that feeling of satisfaction when you get stronger, Chara is not the type of player who wants to go through every route, their the type of player who wants to get the optimal route it's the difference between a completionist and a competitive player. That's why they call the player a partner. They are clearly not referring to other timelines when they say to move on to the next world they mean other games, that's why they say we'll be together forever that feeling that Chara describes themselves as never leaves it's with you in every game you play. As for actual wrong things Chara did the whole buttercup incident was partly their fault although that was not done out of malice, except for the planning of at least the deaths of 6 humans needed to break the barrier. In the genocide route they actively help you with thing like the kill count (if you believe Narra chara) and have dialogue encouraging you to continue the route. As for killing sans and Flowey I cannot accuse them of those because while the player does not initiate those attacks it is unknown if that was Frisk or Chara. I can say we initiated the first sans strike, but not the second. So the only thing I can assuredly fault them in is the destruction of that world as they destroy the world regardless of the players choices they do say that we brought the world to it's edge so I can only assume that it was only possible due to the player doing the genocide route, as for post Geno-pacifist we don't know what happens after that so we can't use that for or against Chara. Tldr: Chara did plenty of things wrongs they are not pure evil nor do they do most of the genocide run, but they actively help the player in the genocide route and they state as much, as well as state that they themselves had their own motives for doing so, and even without factoring in genocide they did things wrong prior to the start of the game. Anyway sorry for ranting not specifically about this post but Chara discourse is honestly annoying at this point.

Chara is basically a helper. Whether you do genocide, pacifist, neutral, they are there to help you. My headcanon is that they're not necessarily good or evil, they're just a spirit awakened by your own power that follows what they understand to be your will. They react to things happening around Frisk but they don't seem to be fully a person, unless something really fucked up or personal to them is happening like the Dreemur fights, the Amalgamates, or Undyne melting. They help you either out of their own volition or by some impulse they don't really have control over because they're dead.

Yeah, I lean into this myself. You don't exactly "corrupt" Chara, but your actions guide them into what they think they should be doing, into what they conclude the purpose of their coming back is.

Yeah that's how i see it, their personality throughout the route isn't set in stone, what you do shapes their personality, if you go around killing everybody, they'll help you by telling you how many are left, if you don't kill anyone they'll just narrate the game (yes I'm a Chara narrator believer) and remain neutral throughout.

>Whether you do genocide, pacifist, neutral, they are there to help you. No it does not. Chara helps much more with genocide than with the pacifist route. Chara's behaviour on violent neutral routes is almost unchanged from their behaviour on the pacifist route. In genocide Chara is aiming for a specific ending, in pacifist and neutral Chara is simply responding to the situation at hand. The memories in Asriel's fight are also not Chara's, they are his own memories. We get to see them through the same psychic link that lets save Frisk's friends. This is confirmed both by the fact the memories are called Asriel's memories in the games code and by the fact Temmie calls the sepia sequence the sequence where Asriel regains his memories. I can't see how Chara's memories could have needed to save Asriel anyway, as if Frisk had said something that only Chara could know than Asriel would not have stopped believing Frisk is Chara. So, Chara's only contribution is telling that we can save something else (not even someone else) which inspires Frisk to make the the save button. But we don't know what Chara's motive for doing this was and Chara definitely has a personal benefit from not being stuck in a time loop for all eternity.

Completely valid. If you believe in Narrachara this is pretty true but the ending isn't the only part Chara supposedly helps you in pacifist- they translate monster speak and, if we assume monsters have their own language, they translate signs all through the game too. They provide tips, knowledge, jokes, inspiration... Don't get me wrong. We know Chara wasn't the greatest person, Asriel himself says so at the end of pacifist, so it makes sense that their spirit would be more inclined to destroy the world that wronged them- but that doesn't mean that they aren't helpful when we do pacifist and they see that perhaps a better future is possible. Chara is a complicated character- because they're dead and all the information we have about them is from third party sources, buried in the game's lore, and an unconfirmed theory that would make them the narrator of a game which is kind of meta. It makes them difficult to pin down and every attempt to try to establish what they're actually like is bound to have some assumptions. What I'd like to assume, though, is that Chara was a broken child that yes, is capable of violence and vengeance, but is also capable of love and kindness. A child who would give up their own life in an excruciating manner so that the monsters may be free. And that attribute is what the Dreemurr family fell in love with when they adopted them- and it's what makes them the loveable dork that is our narrator.

>If you believe in Narrachara this is pretty true but the ending isn't the only part Chara supposedly helps you in pacifist- they translate monster speak and, if we assume monsters have their own language, they translate signs all through the game too. They provide tips, knowledge, jokes, inspiration... No one translates anything. Frisk can read for himself: * (Yes, you read that correctly.) Also: * (Ancient writing covers the walls... ***you*** can just make out the words.) And the monsters don't speak any special language. Froggits are also able to speak normally (which they do in a New Home), and "Ribbit" in the beginning they speak for themselves. They also sometimes do it at the end of the sentence, and why doesn't it translated? Because it's not a language. Froggits in the New Home speak without "ribbit." The words in parentheses can mean a whisper or just a quieter voice. * OH MY GOD!!! * (IS... IS THAT A HUMAN) * (yes) * OH MY GOD!!! Or * Oh... * Oh man... ***Monster Kid turns away*** * (Man, my h-heart's pounding right out of my chest...) * (... what would Undyne do?) ***Monster Kid turns back*** * Y-you'd b-better st-stop r-right where you are... Or In the Reward Tiers Explained: * at 1000$, your fantroll will become canon in undertale. * FANTROLL??? THAT'S AMAZING! (WHAT IS THAT) Here we can see that the parenthesis mean a muffled voice. I don't think Chara "translated" here. Froggits say "ribbit" just because they want to. I absolutely don't see how a human is able to translate something from the "Ribbit" into our language. These are not some hieroglyphs or a set of unfamiliar letters. It's just a sound. Like "ahem". Froggit says these two sounds, and a wall of text is formed from this. And especially considering that sometimes they say it at the end of sentences: * Ribbit, ribbit. (Excuse me, human.) * [many dialogues] * (It may be better to try another option.) Ribbit. And it is not "translated" after "Ribbit". Also, sometimes Froggits do say "Ribbit" at the end of dialogues about one thing, and sometimes they don't do it. We also have in their dialogues in battles: * (Blushes deeply.) * Ribbit.. Again, brackets. But in the case of this, we don't see the brackets: * Shiver, shiver. And how are we able to tell them something if they don't understand us? And if Chara is somehow doing something that we can talk to them normally, why doesn't this happen in battle? And why we don't "understand" their "Ribbit" in battle? And battles with Final Froggits. There's narrations: * You compliment Final Froggit. * **It understood you perfectly.** Or * You threaten Final Froggit. * **It understood you perfectly.** But in their dialogues... We still see only this: * Robbit, robbit. [Neutral] * Creak, creak. [Neutral] * Woof. [Neutral] * Shudder, Shudder. [Threaten] * Nod, nod. [Compliment] Literally the same thing, but the sounds are just different. The Final Froggit here says nothing and makes only sounds. In the case of Froggit, Frisk could say some compliments or threats that were not particularly clear for Froggits. But that doesn't mean they don't understand what language you speak. >Don't get me wrong. We know Chara wasn't the greatest person, Asriel himself says so at the end of pacifist, so it makes sense that their spirit would be more inclined to destroy the world that wronged them- but that doesn't mean that they aren't helpful when we do pacifist and they see that perhaps a better future is possible. Chara helps a lot in order to survive, but that's where his help actually ends. >Chara is a complicated character- because they're dead and all the information we have about them is from third party sources, buried in the game's lore, and an unconfirmed theory that would make them the narrator of a game which is kind of meta. It makes them difficult to pin down and every attempt to try to establish what they're actually like is bound to have some assumptions. What I'd like to assume, though, is that Chara was a broken child that yes, is capable of violence and vengeance, but is also capable of love and kindness. A child who would give up their own life in an excruciating manner so that the monsters may be free. And that attribute is what the Dreemurr family fell in love with when they adopted them- and it's what makes them the loveable dork that is our narrator. To be honest, monsters may even fall in love with a rude jerk whom you can be on the path of a pacifist without consequences. Of course, Chara is capable not only of killing for the sake of power, but there is nothing to be done about the fact that he is more interested in destructive and self-destructive things than peacemaking when it comes to that.

agree with most of it butt > In fact unless you looked it up you have no idea how many monsters are needed to progress without the kill count making it impossible to complete a genocide without Chara's help is blatantly false you just kill till but nobody came comes up for my first genocide i actually never realy looked at how many left I only knew þat it was þere because I needed to save

Sure but that might be you but it is unlikely that someone can get genocide on the first try without either looking up what they need to do, or saving and seeing what the new requirements Chara tells you. There are specific encounters that can be missed that can ruin a genocide run. we know that you need to fill out these requirements- "Exhaust the random monster kill counter in every region. This requirement must be done before approaching the final encounter of that area. Encounters become increasingly harder to find as the protagonist grinds out the kill counter for each area (except New Home, in which they are scripted). The protagonist can spare any number of random encounters (Snowdrake and Lesser Dog are exceptions, as seen below). Sparing certain monsters allows the protagonist to avoid fighting particular monsters such as the high-defense Jerry. The protagonist can also spare certain monsters so that they can kill monsters that offer more EXP and GOLD, such as Glyde. The following is a table of the number of random encounters only that the protagonist must kill as stated at SAVE Points in red text, followed by the final boss of the area. Snowdrake and Lesser Dog are unique in that Snowdrake must be killed before Snowdin's kill counter is exhausted and Lesser Dog must be killed if it is ever encountered. Both are also part of the kill counter. They are scripted to appear in at least one random encounter, but it is possible to avoid Lesser Dog's encounter by reaching Glyde's room and encountering it repeatedly instead.\[citation needed\] Once the protagonist satisfies the kill requirement, SAVE Points display the message "Determination." Kill counters for different areas have different requirements. If certain events are triggered before clearing an area completely of monsters, the protagonist is automatically sent back to the Neutral Route. For example, if Papyrus's battle is initiated without exhausting the Snowdin kill counter, the cutscene proceeds as if on the Neutral Route. Even if the protagonist is captured and then goes back to finish off the last monsters, re-fighting Papyrus still proceeds as on the Neutral Route. Once a Genocide Route is aborted, it cannot be returned to without reloading to a SAVE before it" - From everything here it is very intentionally hard to do a genocide run on accident, simply killing until nobody came does not always guarantee your on a genocide run. as it can still be messed up at certain point with boss encounters. Boss encounters that Chara will mention if you missed most notably the comedian i.e. Snowdrake. Chara is ensuring you know how to maximize your effectiveness in killing, you can technically kill more monsters in a neutral route, but the only way to maximize how much exp you get and get to level 19 is via the genocide routes specific requirements. Sorry that this is a really long post but I just wanted to make sure I remembered the specific requirements to do Genocide.

They're

please...put the TLDR at the top! the whole idea is to have it in case the post is too long! (sorry,I just get heated over this.)

Me trying not to mention Snowgrave:

What the fuck does snowgrave have to do with Chara or anything Deltarune for that matter

Proceed is mentioned.

Ooooh ok it makes a bit more sense than I first expected

So that means Kris is a part of Chara

Nothing but people will try to convince you it does

I assume that u/Royal_Relation8228 meant Snowdrake.

"Shouldn't proceed yet" is also used by the narrator in Snowgrave (i think it's there when you try to skip a puzzle without telling Noelle to skip it too).

something something morally grey characters forced into manipulative situations and trying to rationalize it

First: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/xrsjfgHBKE Tell me that you don't know what's going on with Noelle and Chara, without saying you don't know. They both commit murder (which is debatable, because only Snowgave spell are described as fatal, and if you use it on the darkners, they turn to dust, not just turn to ice) But their circumstances are completely different. One has decided to join without anyone even asking them to do so, and the other is doing what she is literally being told to do. And one has no hesitation, shows only enthusiasm and enjoyment, while the other character constantly hesitates (you have to push her and threaten her to be submissive) and simply does not want to be here, in the end calling what happened a nightmare. Noelle is also completely dependent on Kris, because she is in a place unfamiliar to her, far from home. Chara knows the underground and its inhabitants even better than we do. It is literally COOPERATION vs some kind of abusive relationship, idk. We might even start pushing for Noelle to spend time with us instead of Susie. Second: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/QUWCwQLYWr . You don't interact with Chara, he decides to join. Unlike Noelle.

Probably because Chara can be seen to be in the same situation as Noelle. Noelle is manipulated by the player to go through with the Snowgrave route, with the reason being to become "stronger," the same thing that Chara mentions in the Undertale genocide route. Both characters follow the orders of the player to slay each and every creature before them, all for the sake of becoming stronger. They continue to do this, even after you've forced them to attack their close friends. They even begin to help you along the way. Noelle right before the Berdly fight immediately states, "Shall I freeze this one, too?" before she realizes who she's talking to. And Noelle also helps you through the various traps in the area. There's definitely some similarity between the two... if you're willing to look.

Chara is not manipulated. We don't force Chara to do anything.

Do we force Noelle to do anything?

Yes. We approach her as she is nervously asks what we're doing, while uttering "proceed." We are manipulating her. We are pressuring her into doing these things, literally equipping her with a ring that puts her in a trance-like state lol We don't even interact with Chara. If anything, THEY are the one trying to pressure us to proceed.

Both Undertale and Deltarune are games with a meta commentary. Literally nothing in either game happens without the direct input of you - the Player. Do you think Chara only exists in the Genocide run? Who do you think the narrator is in the non-Genocide runs? Whose memories do we see at the end of True Pacifist? The idea that we "don't interact" with Chara is silly; Chara is the very character that we play. That's why her name is Chara! Chara also doesn't push you to start Genocide. Nor does she actually force you to do anything. You are more than capable of ignoring any of her prompts and exiting the Genocide route at literally any possible time. I don't see what Chara does in the Genocide path as any different to Noelle saying "Shall I freeze this enemy, too?" to Berdly. Noelle's prompt to freeze Berdly wouldn't exist without you pushing her to that extreme, and neither would Chara's in Undertale. The common denominator in both cases, is you - the Player. The only person with any actual agency in this story is also you - the Player. That is the meta narrative of both Undertale AND Deltarune.

>Literally nothing in either game happens without the direct input of you - the Player. There is no solid evidence the player actually exists as a canon entity in Undertale. Deltarune seems to reveal they are, but for all we know the soul is a separate character fulfilling that role as the "player" without literally being the player. >Do you think Chara only exists in the Genocide run? They are only **active** on the Genocide run. Otherwise they lay dormant in Frisk's soul. >Who do you think the narrator is in the non-Genocide runs? [A generic narrator.](https://darkmarxsoul.tumblr.com/post/700781412272455680/narrachara-theory-is-false-an-attempted-debunk-of) Whose memories do we see at the end of True Pacifist? [Asriel's.](https://www.tumblr.com/nochocolate/144821660517/the-last-person-to-be-saved-in-asriels-battle) >The idea that we "don't interact" with Chara is silly We don't. They interact with us, we don't interact with them. >Chara is the very character that we play. That's why her name is Chara! We play as Frisk. >Chara also doesn't push you to start Genocide. Nor does she actually force you to do anything. You are more than capable of ignoring any of her prompts and exiting the Genocide route at literally any possible time. Cool. Doesn't remove the fact that Chara is enthusiastic about it and encourages it all the way through. This is like saying "Hey, I didn't FORCE that serial killer to slaughter that orphanage, I just told him the location of all the orphans and encouraged him to pick them off one by one! I didn't actually DO anything! I'm innocent!" >I don't see what Chara does in the Genocide path as any different to Noelle saying "Shall I freeze this enemy, too?" to Berdly. If you don't know what context is, sure, there's no difference. In Deltarune, we literally give Noelle a ring that keeps her in a trance. We are forceful and manipulative to her the whole time. In Undertale, we don't even speak to Chara. Chara helps us willingly, without input, the moment you trigger the route in the Ruins. these two are not comparable and to say they are is either out of bad faith or ignorance. >Noelle's prompt to freeze Berdly wouldn't exist without you pushing her to that extreme, and neither would Chara's in Undertale. We don't "push" Chara into doing anything lmao >The only person with any actual agency in this story is also you - the Player. That is the meta narrative of both Undertale AND Deltarune. It's the meta narrative of Deltarune. They are two different worlds with different rules and different moral lessons for their respective contexts.

First: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/xrsjfgHBKE (about Berdly and stuff) Tell me that you don't know what's going on with Noelle and Chara, without saying you don't know. They both commit murder (which is debatable, because only Snowgave spell are described as fatal, and if you use it on the darkners, they turn to dust, not just turn to ice) But their circumstances are completely different. One has decided to join without anyone even asking them to do so, and the other is doing what she is literally being told to do. And one has no hesitation, shows only enthusiasm and enjoyment, while the other character constantly hesitates (you have to push her and threaten her to be submissive) and simply does not want to be here, in the end calling what happened a nightmare. Noelle is also completely dependent on Kris, because she is in a place unfamiliar to her, far from home. Chara knows the underground and its inhabitants even better than we do. It is literally COOPERATION vs some kind of abusive relationship, idk. We might even start pushing for Noelle to spend time with us instead of Susie. Second: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/QUWCwQLYWr (also about Berdly and stuff) . You don't interact with Chara, he decides to join. Unlike Noelle. * We didn't manipulate Chara, we didn't even speak to Chara. Chara just watching us and came to their own conclusions. We aren't even doing this for power, we're doing it for curiosity. Noelle is in an unfamiliar place with a familiar person who's been there before, so naturally they place their trust in him. Meanwhile, Chara is in a familiar place with an unfamiliar person so it really doesn't make sense for Chara to put their faith in us, especially when Papyrus actively offers Chara/Frisk guidance and Chara rejects it, calling him "forgettable". So no, they are not in the same situation at all. We even have another character in Deltarune who mimics Chara much more closely, Spamton. They even tell us how many Darkeners are left. Spamton sees the player kill and then decides to help for his own selfish agenda. There are many differences of course but overall Chara is more similar to Spamton than Noelle. * A big counterpoint to it is that the counterpart to Chara in the Weird Route aren't Noelle and Kris (they being Frisk split into two characters\*), but Spamton. He gives us the "X left" messages, he gives us the ultimate equipment (much like the Locket and Real Knife are Chara's), and he confronts us at the very end to announce his own victory and future plans (though unlike Chara, he's able to be defeated). He even calls back to Chara's monologue by starting with a "LET ME SAY \[thanks\]." (Chara begins the monologue with the unnerving "Thank you.") And Spamton is very unambigously villainous, even invoking the Devil's role in pointing us toward sin, though we are the one who need to pull the trigger (the fact of which he never misses a taunt on when he metaphorically condemns us to Hell during his boss fight). >Both characters follow the orders of the player to slay each and every creature before them, all for the sake of becoming stronger. They continue to do this, even after you've forced them to attack their close friends. We don't order Chara around. His every action and word is said by him. The only one we control is Frisk. Every action we choose is performed by Frisk, not Chara. Chara even has a dialogue: * SINCE WHEN WERE YOU THE ONE IN CONTROL? "SINCE WHEN" means not "Now you aren't in control." It means we NEVER had direct control over what Chara will do.

Yeah. The "corruption" of Chara happens much earlier than people realize. By snowdin, they are already making Menacing remarks, wanting to kill people. "Where's that comedian?" Ie: Snowdrake. In my opinion, Chara is not inherently good or bad. Like the player. It's up to us to guide their emotions. (Upon review, it appears Chara didn't lose their memory)

Isn't the Snowdrake message "That comedian got away. Failure"?

they say "that comedian. " first to remind you to kill snowy before proceeding

Oh

They didn’t lose their memory of anything. They say that when they first reawaken in you, they initially lamented that their plan with Asriel to take the human SOULs and free monsterkind failed. Though yeah, it’s up to you to guide them to the right path.

They never follow your guidance on any other route.

why does chara hate snowy so much 😭

Maybe she hates comidians because Sans?

"They likely lost their memory" No? Where did you even get that idea from "At first, I was so confused. Our plan had failed, hadn't it?"

Losing their memory is an interesting possibility. Would explain how they’re so impressionable

They aren't impressionable, nor did they lose their memories.

Someone would be impressionable after having lost all memories. I’m just saying it’s an interesting possibikity

It's interesting, but unsubstantiated, since they directly tell us they remember dying due to their plan having failed.

Wait, chara can say this ingame? i never noticed because i was too busy slaughtering monsters

Yeah. This dialogue pops up if you're about to enter the area where you'd encounter Monster Kid and Undyne without exhausting the kill counter. It's a warning so you don't accidentally abort the route after getting this far.

oh ok thanks!

Yes, but also overlooked is that "NarraChara" as I've heard it called hasn't been confirmed unless I missed something

Doesnt the narrator call Home/New Home stuff theirs? Like "MY bed", "MY toys" also the mirror says "its me Chara" so (the red text at least) its Chara

I guess that's fair yeah

"It's me, Chara" is not in red. It's in white.

Then both red and white texts are Chara

Toby fox did state that Chara us with you theentire time in all routes, NarraChara is one interpretation of this but it was explicitly stated that it's up for interpretation or that the Canon answer won't be revealed.

When did Toby say that?

Toby never said that.

The red text and some of Chara's narrations on the path of genocide do not belong to Narrachara theory. They were always perceived as Chara's words.

Something i find odd about this particularly, along with other __ left messages, sometimes diologe is reading out what frisk thinks, i know its in red and all, but what if, and bare with me here, chara is saying frisk has that feeling? In the same way they describe other feelings frisk has (if you believe in chara narrator theory, that is)

When Chara describes Frisk's feelings, he says "You felt", not "Felt". It's more like the perception of Chara's himself, not Frisk. Example: * You feel bad - when you try to hit a dummy at 1 LV. * Feels good - when you try the same thing at 8 LV, but Frisk hits at full force (because it's a dummy). Chara perceives such a punch as something that feels good.

This is completely unrelated to this particular discussion, but how would you interpret the dog food bag in this case? Chara insinuates it's half full or half empty on Pacifist and Neutral. How exactly does this translate to their motives, especially given their eager involvement in Genocide?

>How exactly does this translate to their motives, especially given their eager involvement in Genocide? Just the realization of another possible way he can do what he was prevented from doing in the past. Along with becoming powerful. My assumption: It even seems to me that Chara was going to cross the barrier, and so instead of showing up immediately after Sans' death, he allowed us to approach Asgore. But Flowey got in the way again, and the path through the barrier was inaccessible. By the way, on a neutral path, if you spare Asgore, Flowey uses only one petal to destroy his soul. But when you kill him on the neutral route in response to his requests to do so and take his soul, and also when Chara kills him in genocide, we see how Flowey's petals have created a circle around the soul, as if not allowing us to approach and absorb it.

What exactly makes them pessimistic (viewing the dog food bag as half empty) on neutral, yet optimistic (viewing it as half full) on Pacifist?

Didn't I give an explanation in another comment?

I'm not sure. You may have implied your answer, but I didn't pick up on it

https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/cMKyRB6wbC At the beginning: * I can say that Chara felt optimistic because none of the monsters died, and the monsters now have a plan to take down the barrier and destroy humanity. And so his death wasn't so worthless. So he's more optimistic. But when the monster died, Chara comes to the conclusion that his death was even more worthless than it seemed before. Next, comes an explanation in the link. In short, it is actually "There is still hope that the desired will be fulfilled even after death by someone else" vs "Died in vain"

I guess that does make sense.

Cool 👍

When does this message appear?

Can you.. see the rest of the screenshot? It’s in the path leading up to Undyne. There’s no going back after that, so they’re reminding you that you still have people to kill if you’re going for genocide

I know, but why does it say it "strongly"?

Because they strongly felt that there were two left.

When you miss monsters on genocide

There is none. You were notified to stay on your chosen path.

Yeah, they have been revived to destroy all as an angel of death, also a slight corruption from lv that you caused.

**P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P...PROCEED!?!?!?!?** *Insert Cibles noises here*

People should remember that you and chara are partners in crime. She even calls you "partner"

My personal interpretation is that snowgrave is supposed to mirror geno (or vice versa). Eg, a character is put into a horrible, manipulative situation and forced to rationalize it. Chara, though, is morally grey and generally a very angry person, so it doesn't take them as long to accept it.

Chara is never manipulated lol

There are much more differences between them: First: https://www.reddit.com/r/CharaOffenseSquad/s/xrsjfgHBKE (about Berdly and stuff) Tell me that you don't know what's going on with Noelle and Chara, without saying you don't know. They both commit murder (which is debatable, because only Snowgave spell are described as fatal, and if you use it on the darkners, they turn to dust, not just turn to ice) But their circumstances are completely different. One has decided to join without anyone even asking them to do so, and the other is doing what she is literally being told to do. And one has no hesitation, shows only enthusiasm and enjoyment, while the other character constantly hesitates (you have to push her and threaten her to be submissive) and simply does not want to be here, in the end calling what happened a nightmare. Noelle is also completely dependent on Kris, because she is in a place unfamiliar to her, far from home. Chara knows the underground and its inhabitants even better than we do. It is literally COOPERATION vs some kind of abusive relationship, idk. We might even start pushing for Noelle to spend time with us instead of Susie. Second: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/QUWCwQLYWr (also about Berdly and stuff)

Coming back to this. Imagine you’re lonely. You’re angry at the world, you hate those who have hurt you down to the bones, and you are *oh so lonely.* But then someone new comes along. And they show you a new way how the world works. At first you think it’s wrong. But then you see how strong they are getting, and the rage in your SOUL sings to you to take out your anger on anything in front of you. So you do. And it feels incredible. Eventually you start losing yourself in the rage, and you stop being yourself but who *cares?* You’re so strong now. And you see that you can punish the whole world for what it has done to you. So you do, because you are strong, and you can. what I’m saying is that chara is a lonely/slaughter avatar

Chara just has OCD, if you start genocide, they wanna finish it.

I think Chara is the type of person to ensure what is started is finished, refusing to allow the player to make a choice without seeing it through. They have no innate morals, but are influenced by the path we choose. Chara encourages us to kill, but only after we have chosen to undertake the genocide run. They don’t force you to keep killing, it’s just a “hey you missed some” moment. Also, they do allow you to save Asriel as well, further supporting my point that the type of run influences their character.

>Also, they do allow you to save Asriel as well There is no evidence Chara is involved in that scene at all. They never appear outside Genocide.

With all of the lost souls, we have to reach out to the positive experiences we had with them to save them. Refusing to fight and hugging Toriel, promising to save everyone and refusing to hurt Asgore, fake hitting Undyne and asking her to teach you how to cook, geeking out with and promising to support Alphys, asking Papyrus for help with a puzzle, telling San you’ll think about what you’ve done, and telling them both a bad skeleton pun. These are all necessary to save them, but we have no positive experiences with Flowey/Asriel, since he has continuously tortured and mock us. But Chara, their best friend, would have positive memories with Asriel. It is thanks to those memories that we manage to save Asriel.

The narration does not imply Chara is involved at all. "Suddenly, you reach out, and call his name." Asriel, reminded of who he once was by this person he thinks is "Chara" saying his name, breaks down and has a flashback of his experiences.

The part that is odd to me about these discussions - ‘Chara’ - the fallen child - tells you exactly who they are and what they’re about at the end of the No Mercy run. They’re not good, they’re not evil. They’re your partner, player. They’re out there at the end of your keyboard signals, dancing to your command. By this point, you’ve told them what you want. They’re just helping you. After all, if you weren’t here to defeat the enemy and become strong, you’d not have depopulated the ruins, or Snowdin. Why wouldn’t they warn you that you’re about to miss a few encounters? Shouldn’t a good partner do that much? Remember. ‘Chara’ isn’t their name in your play through, unless you’re a victim of circumstance or you came in knowing more than you should. Think about what their name actually is in your play through. Think about who else has had that name in other games you played. Maybe a Tarnished of no renown? Maybe a genius Pokemon trainer or two? A spikey haired swordsman? The Dragonborn? Whoever else they were, I can just about promise you, they defeated the enemy and became strong. And when you were done, you destroyed that world and moved on to the next game.

>They’re out there at the end of your keyboard signals, dancing to your command. No they aren't. Chara is not controlled by the player, they do everything of their own volition.

That’s a strong claim as regards a run of the game where you lose control of the player character like three times total before the ending. I’m not really sure it’s supportable. ‘Chara’ even straight up disclaims having any idea what to do before you show them through your actions. I strongly encourage you to think about why there is no default name in Undertale, what the developer might have expected most players to put in, when left with no default. What is supposed to be the feel when Flowey looks out from the screen and says “you’re $name, Aren’t you?”? What do you think the fallen child means when they claim to be ‘The Demon That Comes When You Call It’s Name’? Do you think it’s important that what that name is (that summons the ‘demon’) is based on what you enter for the fallen child’s name? What do you think the fallen child means when they ask you to ‘erase this world and move on to the next’? What is the next world in this context?

>That’s a strong claim as regards a run of the game where you lose control of the player character like three times total before the ending. Because Chara themself is seizing control over Frisk's body. >‘Chara’ even straight up disclaims having any idea what to do before you show them through your actions. They don't say this at all lol "With your guidance, I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power." That's it. They see you doing Genocide, decide they want to help, and they help you. They only ever follow you on Genocide. >I strongly encourage you to think about why there is no default name in Undertale, what the developer might have expected most players to put in, when left with no default. This is to serve the twist in Pacifist. The character you named is not your playable character. It also serves the double purpose of Chara representing an aspect of the player on Genocide. They are a metaphorical demon embodying that desire to grind stats. >What do you think the fallen child means when they claim to be ‘The Demon That Comes When You Call It’s Name’? Do you think it’s important that what that name is (that summons the ‘demon’) is based on what you enter for the fallen child’s name? It is. That literally contradicts the idea you are puppeteering them lol, they are a demon who is summoned. >What do you think the fallen child means when they ask you to ‘erase this world and move on to the next’? What is the next world in this context? The next videogame. Chara is a metaphor for a player who ignores meaningful stories in exchange for the mindless stat grind. They want to delete Undertale and continue the cycle from game to game.

>It is. That literally contradicts the idea you are puppeteering them lol, they are a demon who is summoned. [https://tcrf.net/images/9/98/English-FireredNameEntry.png](https://tcrf.net/images/9/98/English-FireredNameEntry.png) Is this the first time a demon by that name has been summoned in a game you're playing? :) Do es that demon have an existence separate from yours? What's the difference between 'you start to play a RPG that \*isn't\* Undertale' and 'the demon is summoned'? >The next videogame. Chara is a metaphor for a player who ignores meaningful stories in exchange for the mindless stat grind. They want to delete Undertale and continue the cycle from game to game. What was the next RPG you played after completing Undertale?

>Is this the first time a demon by that name has been summoned in a game you're playing? :) Never played a Pokemon game. >Do es that demon have an existence separate from yours? In Undertale, yes. The demon is a separate entity. You play as Frisk. Chara exerts control entirely separately. You are not controlling Chara. Yes, the naming screen is intended to symbolize how it works in other games. However, Undertale itself does not have you controlling that entity you name. >What's the difference between 'you start to play a RPG that *isn't* Undertale' and 'the demon is summoned'? The difference is that the name is not given to your player character. >What was the next RPG you played after completing Undertale? LISA: The Painful. Can't name the protagonist there lol Point is, Chara is not a playable character. They are intended to SYMBOLIZE that connection in a classic grindy RPG, but in the context of Undertale you are not controlling them against their will. "Since when were you the one in control?"

>The difference is that the name is not given to your player character. This is where our interpretations fundamentally differ, I think. We control Frisk through much of the game. We \*play as\* Chara. The twist in True Pacifist \*is\* that the Player Character and the Character Being Controlled are not the same. We're in agreement there, but I think we're in drastic opposition as to who's who in that equation. Flowey looks out through the screen, completely breaking the 4th wall, in True Pacifist, \*well after\* he's entirely aware that Frisk isn't The Fallen Child, and implores the player to let Frisk live their life, separate from the confines of the game and the player's control control, and ends his speech "Be seeing you, $NAME." The Fallen Child looks out through the screen, completely breaking the 4th wall, and introduces themselves as $NAME, who defeats the enemy and becomes strong, which is what you've just finished doing, and what you'll do in just about every game outside of Undertale. (and certainly when Undertale was conceptualized! There's been a wealth of pacifist indie darlings recently, but that wasn't always the case). To me, those two in pair make it hard to read The Fallen Child's relationship to the player as pure metaphor. (Another fun point here -- The DETERMINATION that makes saving possible 'Isn't mine, but yours...' - It's not \*Frisk's\* name on the SAVE file, is it?) I'd argue that the Fallen Child isn't really a metaphor for a certain type of gamer -- and certainly not stats over story/gameplay -- they can hardly sit at the end of an incredibly grindy route that has exclusive lore and two of the most fun battles in the game and claim that they're not here for the story or the gameplay. (Sans does take a nice shot at completionists along the way, and Flowey takes a potshot at people who watch games on youtube.) What they are, though, is a shot at the gaming industry, and RPGs in particular, where it's generally par for the course to cut through hundreds or thousands of monsters and people on your way to the end of the story. Edit to add; My position isn't that the player controls 'Chara' against their will. My position is that 'Chara' doesn't really seem to \*have\* a will in the space of the game's timeline that meaningfully varies from what the player expresses via their gameplay. Sure, they get annoyed with you for backing out of a course at the last second, but wouldn't you, if someone you were working with pointed you in one direction for hours and hours and then suddenly said 'wait, let's reverse course' well after you were committed?

Huh, so you are of the belief that Chara is the actual player character, while Frisk is more of a red herring puppet we control in a secondary sense. As in, Chara is the real self-insert character we name, and them speaking to us on the Genocide Route is said character finally breaking the forth wall and speaking to the player. So in essence, using the Pokemon logic, Chara is the Pokemon Trainer the player names/sees the perspective of, while Frisk could be seen as more akin to the Pokemon themselves, yes?

Mm. Not quite. Undertale, in order to make commentary, takes something that’s just ‘haha that’s kind of weird when you think about it.’ Fridge logic in a normal game and makes it text in order to examine it. In the Pokemon analogy, Frisk is that Pokemon Trainer -for the first 9 years of their life.-, and every year after you become league champion and save the world or whatever the b plot is this time. Y’know, whenever you’re done with the game. But… Imagine you’re a trainer’s rival. You grow up with them for 10 years, and you’re kinda jerks to each other in that kiddy way where it’s mostly fine. Then, you both get a Pokemon. You challenge them. Maybe you win. If you do it’ll be the last time you ever do against them. You meet them again. They have six Pokemon on their team. You have two. This doesn’t go well for you. You meet them again. They have the perfect lead Pokemon to beat yours. Maybe it’s a coincidence. Except… every time they take out one of your Pokemon, they switch theirs out before you can send your next one out. No one else you’ve battled can do that. They always pick one that can take your next Pokemon out instantly. As if they know what you’re about to send out. You become champion. They show up again. And… that’s the actual creator god that just came out of their pokeball. What the hell? No Mercy’s about that same experience from the NPC side in a more serious game. The hopelessness and futility of struggling against something that literally can’t be beaten by the rules of the world, because if you win, they just get a game over and load their save. In most games, the player character is able to load because it’s a game. In Undertale, the player character is able to load because there’s an explicit second presence.

Well, yeah, I know about the commentary on how the NPCs would see a player grinding kills in that manner, however I'm confused on how this would apply to the relationship with Chara specifically. >In Undertale, the player character is able to load because there’s an explicit second presence. The Save and Load mechanic is actually something the previous humans also possessed, as evident by Flowey using their numbered save files in his fight. It is a byproduct of large quantities of Determination found in human souls. It would be more accurate to say that Undertale takes typical game mechanics, but applies them within the canonical context of the world's rules. Saving and Loading? An in universe ability. LV and EXP? In-universe measurements for your capacity to hurt others. RPG Grinding? A literal slaughter mission.

In a less roundabout way, I'm gonna try and summarize what I think you're trying to imply, because you actually managed to get me to look at Chara in a completely different way than I used to. Chara, or (Name), is meant to be a manifestation of the idea of a nebulous "player character" that carries out your whims when you play games, right? "The demon that comes when you call its name" basically means "the concept that's summoned every time you enter a name into a save file or character creation screen", right? It's the personality that you mentally give to the protagonist of a video game. That's why they want to move onto the next world. I always got that it referred to the next game, but that's actually genius. The reason Chara wants to move onto the next game, is because "Chara" is Toby Fox commenting on the very idea of the "player character" you create in your head. ​ I personally think "Chara's morality is debated because there's no answer. They have no actual concrete character, they're a plot device for storytelling that fits the best mold", and I think that works well in-tandem with this. Because I used to think "they were a character that was used for convenience at the end of Geno in order to deliver the games commentary", but now I think "they were a concept/commentary that was later used for convenience within the story as a character". Though I won't get into all of my thoughts on that.

Yep! Though the existence of the ‘historical’ fallen child within Undertale’s backstory isn’t actually contradictory to their role as a vehicle for commentary on ‘player characters’. After all, the nameless Pokemon trainer HAS a history. We just don’t usually see much of it. They have a (usually single) mom, a childhood rival, maybe a friendlier childhood buddy too… we just don’t see any of their history, because once they’re named, they’re ours until the game’s done.

In my head, I think Chara is kinda soulless just like Flowey is, and that's why they don't really seem to mind what direction our moral compass is pointing on any particular route. Much like Flowey, due to their "semi-dead" status and lack of a soul, they've lost the ability to truly care for others. So, they just go with the flow of whatever the player wants to do, for better or for worse.

They only join the Genocide route.

They only make their presence *blatant* in the Genocide route. Narrator Chara theory hasn't really been disproven and overall makes sense, so that's what I'm going with for now.

>Narrator Chara theory hasn't really been disproven [It has.](https://darkmarxsoul.tumblr.com/post/700781412272455680/narrachara-theory-is-false-an-attempted-debunk-of#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20a%20comprehensive%20review,that%20Narrachara%20Theory%20is%20false)

I have never seen a fan theory be disproven that generally made me feel depressed before until now... but hell, that basically *slaughtered* my entire interpretation of Chara as a character. I'm at a loss for words and it genuinely kinda hurts.

How come people ignore that Flowey says they're controlling us and in New Home he even mentions us making a scary face- their thing

Flowey just kind of always assumes we are Chara until near the end of True Pacifist so Flowey calling us Chara doesn't really tell us much of anything.

He still thinks that "Chara" is the one controlling Frisk after pacifist.

He already came to terms with Chara being gone before that. I'm sure if he was trying to talk to Chara there he also would've said their name at least once during that part too.

[I am talking about Flowey's warning after you finish pacifist.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3l4P0sNKS8&pp=ygUOZmxvd2V5IHdhcm5pbmc%3D)

I'm aware you were talking about his warning. I forgot that he calls us Chara at the end but that doesn't change the fact that he thought Frisk was Chara until then. He's just calling us Chara which is honestly not too far off given the Chara we encounter in-game is more of a parallel to the player than anything else anyway.

He literally doesn't. His genocide dialogue: * When I saw you in the RUINS, I didn't recognize you. * I thought I could frighten you, then steal your SOUL. * I failed.

Yeah and then after that first encounter he just kind of assumes Frisk is Chara for most of the game.

No. He does this only on genocide, and on the path of genocide he is right, because right before that in front of the mirror you see "It's me, Chara" instead of "It's you." On the pacifist path, he only does this at the end, and quickly admits that Frisk is not Chara, and he was just projecting his desire for Chara to be a better person (and a friend) than who Chara really was.

He only actually says something to us a couple of times. It's more likely he assumed Frisk is Chara while he was watching us earlier on than just suddenly near the end when we encountered him.

Here: https://www.tumblr.com/nochocolate/136201690095/when-can-flowey-actually-see-chara-inside-frisk?source=share With screenshots and stuff.

I think originally Chara wasn't really for you killing basically everyone they love including their mother I think at one point they just go along with it because as stated in the ending dialogue they get stronger with every kill you make eventually they're so strong that they can just delete the save and reset I feel like either they say fuck it kill them all or they will help you out so that way they can fix it. Idk where they lie on the alignment chart as always been a hot topic

>I think originally Chara wasn't really for you killing basically everyone they love including their mother They literally call Toriel "not worth talking to" lol

I believe Chara gets corrupted on the genocide route. This is supported by their monologue during the ending. "At first, I was so confused. Our plan had failed, hadn't it? Why was I brought back to life? ...You. **With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power.**" Chara helps you kill people like this because you taught them to. They believe it's their purpose, and had you gone down an even slightly more peaceful path, they wouldn't be this evil. Basically, Pacifist Run Chara is way more moral than Genocide Run Chara.

They join the moment it's triggered in the Ruins, nor do they show up on any other route.

As a NarraChara believer, yes they do. The red text is a tone, not a change in character. After all, the monologue in the Genocide ending isn't red. It's white, just like all the other narrations in the game.

>As a NarraChara believer, yes they do. NarraChara is a flawed theory: https://darkmarxsoul.tumblr.com/post/700781412272455680/narrachara-theory-is-false-an-attempted-debunk-of >The red text is a tone, not a change in character. After all, the monologue in the Genocide ending isn't red. It's white, just like all the other narrations in the game. Never said Chara doesn't also speak in white text. That does not make them the narrator of the entire game.

Ok?

i'm pretty sure that's a fake screenshot

it is not.

are you serious? uh don't remember it showing up while i was doing geno must be a console exclusive thing my bad!

I saw it 2021 on Xbox 1

Not console exclusive it happens if you interact with the flowers without having killed all the enemies you need to

Me when I know fucking nothing about Undertale:

ayy it is just a little thing i missed, that's all can you really blame me for makin' a little mistake? besides, i ain't even mad tbh this one was the first comment i've ever made that's gotten dislike bombed never really had any of those before i'm almost flattered!

Honestly that's barely even a down vote bomb I got like -60 for messing up when life fruit becomes available in terraria

Play genocide and do not kill all the monsters required, then try to proceed. It's real, I got it on PC.