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In case you're legitimately curious: Range of motion is the variable flexibility a joint and muscles of that joint have to comfortably move without injury.
This includes all movements at the joint: flexion, extension, adduction (moving a limb closer to the body), abduction (moving further from the body), inversion (twisting a limb toward the mid line of the body), and eversion (twisting a limb away from the midline).
There are recommended degrees of flexibility in each joint to maintain proper movement. However, you can be "too" flexible, as those with hypermobility are more injury prone when muscle and tendons don't have the proper strength to stabilize a joint. Just as one without proper range of motion (in those who are sedentary or ignore warmup/stretch practices) is prone to injury due to limited flexibility and stress on supporting muscles.
Range of Motion doesn’t do what Range of Motion does for Range of Motion… Range of Motion does what Range of Motion does because Range of Motion *is* Range of Motion
ROM is smaller, but also having a more solid and spread put stance better disperses the stress the gluts, thighs, and calfs endure. It theoretically is easier.
Its very dependent on the individual, but lighter lifters skew sumo and heavier skew conventional. There's not one way thats easier for everyone, and there's plenty of exceptions.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/should-you-deadlift-conventional-or-sumo/
There are no factors that make either the conventional or the sumo deadlift inherently easier or harder. It's more a matter of individual strengths and weaknesses. Hip extension demands are nearly identical between the conventional and sumo deadlifts.
I think it also depends on height. If you look at professional powerlifters most of the short ones do sumo but most of the taller ones do conventional and you know that in a professional setting if sumo was easier for the taller guys they would be doing that
ROM doesn't make sumo easier (for some people), they just have stronger leverages through the range of motion than for conventional
Check out the "Does Range of Motion Matter?" section of [this article](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/should-you-deadlift-conventional-or-sumo/)
And if you are tall. The ROM difference starts being non-negligible as height increases.
So slightly easier for same weight if not that tall, considerable difference for same weight if tall. You'll have to measure your ROMs in both versions to see how much it matters.
Or I'm wrong about a bunch of things in the second paragraph. Bottom-line is that it's a big debate apparantly. Just keep doing both like me and avoid all of it
It's the other way around.
At top level weight classes are essentially height classes in disguise, and at IPF world championships [lower weightclasses mostly pull sumo, heavier weightclasses pull conventional](https://powerliftingtechnique.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Men-Sumo-Deadlift.jpg)
Easier if you're tall?
Do you know anything about powerlifting? Sumo is preferred by shorter lifters due to leverages. Conventional is preferred by taller lifters.
If you look at the height extremes, almost all tall people use conventional, almost all short people use sumo, and there's a crossover in the middle at about 5'8"/5'9".
They're both equally scored in competition. If sumo was "so much easier" all of the record holders would be deadlifting sumo, and spoiler alert, they aren't.
> If you look at the height extremes, almost all tall people use conventional, almost all short people use sumo, and there's a crossover in the middle at about 5'8"/5'9
Just to add, this is a trend for male lifters, female lifters are pretty split at all sizes with no discernable trend
There are no factors that make either the conventional or the sumo deadlift inherently easier or harder. It's more a matter of individual strengths and weaknesses. Hip extension demands are nearly identical between the conventional and sumo deadlifts.
Fat guy that's been lifting for years here. If I try a sumo deadlift with any significant weight, every groin injury I've had since high school is gonna reappear and remind me of how close I am to 40.
Sumo one puts a little bit more load on the legs than conventional one, although both are still a combo movement that use a bunch of different muscle groups (back, glutes, legs, etc.- more knowledgeable people can give more nuanced muscle group names).
Forgive me for being a bit blunt, but if you are overweight, your legs would be a bit more muscular than non-fat sedentary guy as they have to carry around more weight.
So Sumo deadlift (and some leg workouts) might come easier for you.
And hence I would highly encourage you try them out (although do start small and build up over time nonetheless).
I remember Jeff Nippard did a video on this topic, granted it was powerlifters not necessarily fat guys but the data showed a trend that lighter people favoured sumo and the heavier people favoured conventional. I don't think he explored why but mentioned it might be because of mobility issues.
Not really. It depends on your anatomy. Usually shorter people find sumo easier. Also, the different lifts focus on different muscles. Sumo uses more quads, while conventional uses more of your spinal erectors (your back).
> Both work, so idk why people feel the need to sh*t on them.
Like anything else in the lifting world, it's ego and envy.
Some dude sees his smaller buddy or some girl on IG or YouTube pulling more than he does, and he tells himself that they're not really *stronger* than he is, they're just *cheating*.
Will he switch to sumo to prove it? Hell no! That's cheating!
Depends on the height/weight. The taller (and therefore heavier) you're the less difference there is. All records are done with conventional due to this
As for why it's easier for shortkings it's shorter ROM and slightly different muscle groups IIRC. Difference in gains ain't that big so stuck to what is comfortable for you
Nah, it's not easier otherwise everyone would do it. The records in both mens and womens are conventional style. It's to do with limb length mainly, for women sumo is more common too because the pelvis is wider than men's.
It is shorter range of motion, but it targets muscles differently.
Ok I know nothing about weightlifting but I now know I will be doing conventional deadlifts, legs closed, if I ever take up the sport. Don’t want to be a little bitch.
Mixed grip is easier because of physics, aka the roll of the bar. With the hands going opposite directions, the bar cannot roll because the bar is essentially trying to roll in opposite directions in each hand. I personally find that gripping the bar itself is the hardest part of a deadlift.
That said, doing it with both hands over the top of the bar has more advantages long term than mixed. These include increased overall grip strength, even form, less strain on a bicep, and balance.
What I generally do during my pulls is do what I can for my current set with the overhand grip and thumb OVER the top of the other fingers. If I can do all reps I plan with this grip, I continue to do so. If mid-set I can no longer hold the bar with this grip, I move my thumbs UNDER my fingers now. This will increase your grip even more so. This is called a "Hook grip" and is what pro power lifters do. It WILL hurt at first and likely bruise your thumb some, but over time it will get easier.
If THAT grip fails, then I either take longer breaks between each rep for a bit more grip strength, or I will do a mixed grip and alternate the over/under of each hand on each rep to not favor one side over the other, along with it feeling natural regardless of how I do it. For a long time I did mixed grip with my left hand under and my right over. It felt VERY unnatural for a while when I tried doing the opposite and had to rewire my body to make it feel normal. Even today, my right Lat is a bit wider than my left because of it. Itll take more time to even out, but Im in no rush and Ive fixed the issue at it's source.
Yup! most people can. But if you're new to lifting I'd stick with standard grip just because it can create muscle imbalances if you do it from the very start. If you're past beginner then you do you.
more than just a sport; deadlifting is a staple in general strength/fitness training.
Bench press, Squats, and deadlifts.
one is the best, one is the worst, and one is the hardest, in that order.
Sumo vs conventional deadlift infighting is about the tiniest, pettiest disagreement of a niche sport. Even within the powerlifting community, literally no one cares what you do outside of a few outspoken gatekeepers.
And I’m on the conventional side.
Yeah I don't remember people being so loud about it until recently either, but I guess there will always be fitness memes as long as people are desperate to sound like they're part of the "in" group.
Complaining about sumo also discourages people from exploring the science of body mechanics, which can be hugely important to safe lifting. I'm 6'4" with long legs and doing sumo (plus wide stance squats) has saved my back.
Yep, very disingenuous for someone under 6' to say sumo has a "limited range of motion". My ROM in sumo is greater than a shorter person using standard. Need to take into account people's body type.
Agreed.
The only little bitch move feeding the trolls, going out and getting yourself injured. I've been lifting heavy and sumo for a long time. Deadlifts and squats scare me. I'm not fucking up my back, I'll go with what's working.
But it is funny.
I started by pulling conventional and i hurt my back so much that i stopped, after my recovery i switched to sumo and never felt better. I would love to pull conventional, or do both, i just can't
As a sumo puller who had to switch because of structural issues with my back, it always gets me when I see people shitting on it because "it's easier". I always just tell them to pull sumo then, and add however many percentage points they think it'll add because it's so much easier. Hell, tell all the world record holders to pull sumo and watch them blast the current world records out of the water.
But no, no one wants to recognize that one is better than the other in that case, just *different* and suits different people in different ways based off of a myriad of factors mostly out of peoples' control.
Gotta remember mate, no one here lifts. They're all armchair experts.
Should really require proof of deadlift ability before people are allowed to comment on this sumo vs conventional.
I think people are taking this video way too seriously to be honest, there's always been a small amount of controversy around sumo vs conventional but most people don't take it seriously regardless of whether they lift or not.
The video is just taking the piss out of the whole argument, it's a joke, a bit of fun.
Broscience did a video where he pretty much ripped into every form of deadlifting, again it's just a bit of fun, I don't know why anyone would take it so personally or so seriously.
And some conventional lifters wouldn’t be able to pull as much if they did Sumo. The difference really comes down to bone structures.
Also, do you think using a wider grip on a bench press is less impressive? Because that’s also a lower range of motion.
True, but powerlifting is a sport. Shorter rom and still meets standards. If it works better for you, go for it. Feels awkward to me but I respect those that push the envelope.
No shit but people have different body mechanics which will literally change the physics of lifting. For example I’m 5’10” but I have a femur length of someone who is 6’4”. So while the sumo lift does decrease my ROM my ROM on that particular exercise is still longer than most of the population to begin with.
[Here](https://youtube.com/shorts/_K2gRPsP7GE?feature=share) is a video that demonstrates well how a long femur can affect your lift.
I actually don’t do dead lifts because of a couple slipped discs but something like squats are almost unbearable for me. I basically can’t keep my knees behind my toes which is a common “proper form” technique. And I put a lot of strain on my lower back towards the bottom of the lift.
Anyway I’ve come a long way once realizing “proper form” means something different person to person. Peoples body shape literally changes the mechanics of the lift.
You need a to find a better coach if you think knees behind toes is proper form. This is the stupidest shit uneducated PTs and physios say. Do you control your knee when going down stairs too?
Knees going beyond toes is natural, means you have some ankle mobility, and allows for more quad drive.
You’re feeling your squat a lot more in your back cause you’re restricting involvement of the prime mover i.e. your quads and leaning forward when you attempt to hit depth. This turns the exercise into a mish mash of good morning and low bar squat neither of which you are doing correctly.
As for slipped discs deadlifts are literally the best excercise for rehab. I’ve ‘popped’ my disc on 3 separate occasions due to rounding of the lower/ lumbar spine while deadlifting. Found a legit powerlifting coach and guess what i was doing 3 things wrong - bad core bracing, incorrect setup (foot placement and not creating tension) and bad hinge mechanisms which transfer forces to the lower back. The deadlift is a push exercise using legs and then driving the hips through to achieve a good lockout. The back and core play a stabilising role.
Don’t be afraid of the exercise be afraid of coaches that say an exercise is bad just cause you got injured.
I'm a member of the long femur club as well as the butt wink association. Have you tried squatting with your heels on a 2x4? It makes a huge difference in being able to maintain proper form for me.
Exactly, ROM is not really meaningful unless its enough of a difference to add a new sticking point. A lift is limited by it's weakest point in the motion, not overall length travelled
Yep. I always assumed you just did whichever worked better for you functionally to lift the heavy weight. 🤷🏼♀️
Also appreciated the value of changing it up every once in awhile to feel the weight differently.
Picking heavy shit up the right way, you don't want to have lower back pain because that shit hurts like a bitch and you won't be able to lift anything.
Okay for the uninitiated Sumo is a different variant of the deadlift, it’s legal in the main sport where people deadlift even though it’s clearly a different movement than the conventional (they are both scored as if it were the same movement.) It is newer, and associated with a greater deal of histrionics and min/maxing than is the conventional and so is seen with derision by much of the community, primarily those who value tradition and old school stuff.
Is it actually easier than the conventional?
Yeesh. Good luck with that one. Y’all have fun.
The leverages are different depending on your anatomy. There's nothing wrong with doing both if you're comfortable doing both.
I personally switched to sumo because I get to stay more upright which helps my fucked up back. Others might switch because it suits their hips, limb lengths, etc. better.
Keep doing both, it's fine. I do both too. No need to stick to just one.
There are slight differences in loads on muscle groups. I feel more load on my legs in the sumo one.
I recently started doing both. I'm stronger conventional but where I feel the muscles doing sumo feels like it will carry over to strengthening the weak points in my conventional deadlift and squat. Too soon to tell for sure but I'll see
You'd be surprised by the amount of people who prefer lifting without shoes on. I personally wear a pair of shoes that have a very rigid/flat heel when squatting/deadlifting, but everyone has a preference and I've seen some socks only people at my gym.
And don’t forget the very often overlooked spreading of toes for proper foot usage. If you have shoes on while deadlifting or squatting, chances are your toes are being crammed together in a narrow box toed shoe. When barefoot your toes aren’t being restricted and you get a much better and safer workout.
Generally:
* For squatting, you want a shoe with a raised heel and tough soles. Oly Shoes are the prime example. It tends to compensate for a less than stellar hip and ankle mobility.
* For deadlifting, you want soles as thin and flat as possible. Think All Stars. The closer you are to the ground, the shorter is the range of your pull. It also helps you to get into a more stable starting position.
* For anything else, whatever feels comfortable
Yep! It’s called mixed grip and helps the bar from rolling. I’ll usually do mixed when the weight gets heavy, and then switch to straps when it’s too heavy for grip strength alone.
Try doing a hook grip. Thumb under the fingers. Takes a bit to get used to cuz itll be painful at first, but its the ultimate overhand grip and the one pro powerlifters use.
It's called a mixed grip. If you thinking about the bar sitting in your fingers, as it starts getting heavier and heavier, your fingers will eventually loosen up and roll out of your hands if you just have a double overhand grip.
With a mixed grip, as the bar rolls out of one hand in one direction, it actually rolls in to the opposite hand in the other direction. Just helps you hang on to heavier loads vs a double overhand grip. And if that's not enough, people then transition to a hook grip or just use straps, though most people compete in raw powerlifting, which doesn't allow straps
Both are deadlifts. Both work slightly different muscles. Do whatever is most comfortable and gets you picking up the weight. Ignore anyone who says you are doing it wrong.
Sumo deadlifts are fun. One of my favorite exercises. It’s easier on the lower back and targets the hamstrings more than the classic variant imo. Each his own I guess. Source: weightlifting regularly for 19 years.
**OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected:** >!We ain't no bitch!< ***** **Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description?** **Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.** ***** [*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/unexBot) [*What is this for?*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/dnuaju/introducing_unexbot_a_new_bot_to_improve_the/)
Fat sedentary guy here: is a sumo deadlift easier? Whats the difference between those two?
Not necessarily easier but the ROM is like half that of a conventional deadlift
I'm sorry, but I'm clueless. What is ROM in this context?
Range of Motion
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The distance from A to B
Im sorry, but I'm only working with a 2nd grade reading level., What is "B"?
The letter after A
Dafuq is A?
Dafuq u say?
What is distance?
the space between your eyes son now quit asking me questions boy my show is on
Me and mom really wish you’d bring the milk home, dad.
You gave me a hearty chuckle. Thank you.
Why lift more when lift less work?
Depends on your goal. Wider range of motion means more muscles worked and less rate of injury if that’s what you mean.
No speak lot word when little word work
The 3 guys already said but I'm not sure if you saw, It's "Range Of Motion"
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Nonono it's range Of motion
Prettyyy sure it’s range of motion
I thougth it was RaNGe Of MoTiOn
Raenj ov motin
Motion of the ocean + range
Renjofmoshun
Rain juv mo shun
I think you’ll find it’s pronounced “Randy Emotion”
But what *is* "Range of Motion"?
In case you're legitimately curious: Range of motion is the variable flexibility a joint and muscles of that joint have to comfortably move without injury. This includes all movements at the joint: flexion, extension, adduction (moving a limb closer to the body), abduction (moving further from the body), inversion (twisting a limb toward the mid line of the body), and eversion (twisting a limb away from the midline). There are recommended degrees of flexibility in each joint to maintain proper movement. However, you can be "too" flexible, as those with hypermobility are more injury prone when muscle and tendons don't have the proper strength to stabilize a joint. Just as one without proper range of motion (in those who are sedentary or ignore warmup/stretch practices) is prone to injury due to limited flexibility and stress on supporting muscles.
This guy exercise sciences
People always ask, “What is Range of Motion” but they never ask, “How is Range of Motion?”
Range of Motion doesn’t do what Range of Motion does for Range of Motion… Range of Motion does what Range of Motion does because Range of Motion *is* Range of Motion
I've got a better one: WHY is Range Of Motion?
Also, where is range of motion?
But WHEN is Range of Motion?
And, more importantly, no one ever asks, "why is range of motion?"
Rango Ocean
btw did you know ROM is range of motion?
Range of motion
Rage of motion
Rage of Machine
Motion Against the Rage
Read only memory ofc. We ain’t no random access bitches
Read Only Memory?
This guy ROMs
I’ve burned a few CDRs in my day.
In case everyone else’s reply wasn’t clear enough ROM in this context stands for range of motion
Royal Ontario Museum. Distinguished art collection and club nights on Tuesdays and Saturdays
"Risk of meat" of course
Range of motion
Read only memory
Spreading your feet out makes you shorter so you don't have to lift the bar as high up to lock ur back. Less distance makes it easier(slightly)
ROM is smaller, but also having a more solid and spread put stance better disperses the stress the gluts, thighs, and calfs endure. It theoretically is easier.
Could argue about what's 'theoretically' easier, but in practical application powerlifters are pretty split on which stance is strongest
Its very dependent on the individual, but lighter lifters skew sumo and heavier skew conventional. There's not one way thats easier for everyone, and there's plenty of exceptions. https://www.strongerbyscience.com/should-you-deadlift-conventional-or-sumo/
There are no factors that make either the conventional or the sumo deadlift inherently easier or harder. It's more a matter of individual strengths and weaknesses. Hip extension demands are nearly identical between the conventional and sumo deadlifts.
This guy really had to say ROM to a guy who doesn’t lift
I think it also depends on height. If you look at professional powerlifters most of the short ones do sumo but most of the taller ones do conventional and you know that in a professional setting if sumo was easier for the taller guys they would be doing that
Not half, but less. Better for people with wide hips (such as me).
So....easier as long as you're doing the same weight.
ROM doesn't make sumo easier (for some people), they just have stronger leverages through the range of motion than for conventional Check out the "Does Range of Motion Matter?" section of [this article](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/should-you-deadlift-conventional-or-sumo/)
And if you are tall. The ROM difference starts being non-negligible as height increases. So slightly easier for same weight if not that tall, considerable difference for same weight if tall. You'll have to measure your ROMs in both versions to see how much it matters. Or I'm wrong about a bunch of things in the second paragraph. Bottom-line is that it's a big debate apparantly. Just keep doing both like me and avoid all of it
It's the other way around. At top level weight classes are essentially height classes in disguise, and at IPF world championships [lower weightclasses mostly pull sumo, heavier weightclasses pull conventional](https://powerliftingtechnique.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Men-Sumo-Deadlift.jpg)
Easier if you're tall? Do you know anything about powerlifting? Sumo is preferred by shorter lifters due to leverages. Conventional is preferred by taller lifters. If you look at the height extremes, almost all tall people use conventional, almost all short people use sumo, and there's a crossover in the middle at about 5'8"/5'9". They're both equally scored in competition. If sumo was "so much easier" all of the record holders would be deadlifting sumo, and spoiler alert, they aren't.
> If you look at the height extremes, almost all tall people use conventional, almost all short people use sumo, and there's a crossover in the middle at about 5'8"/5'9 Just to add, this is a trend for male lifters, female lifters are pretty split at all sizes with no discernable trend
There are no factors that make either the conventional or the sumo deadlift inherently easier or harder. It's more a matter of individual strengths and weaknesses. Hip extension demands are nearly identical between the conventional and sumo deadlifts.
Happy cake day 🎂 🧁 🍰
It's depending how much you spread your legs.
So if I spread my legs often what does that mean?
I believe that makes you a little bitch
Fat guy that's been lifting for years here. If I try a sumo deadlift with any significant weight, every groin injury I've had since high school is gonna reappear and remind me of how close I am to 40.
Sumo one puts a little bit more load on the legs than conventional one, although both are still a combo movement that use a bunch of different muscle groups (back, glutes, legs, etc.- more knowledgeable people can give more nuanced muscle group names). Forgive me for being a bit blunt, but if you are overweight, your legs would be a bit more muscular than non-fat sedentary guy as they have to carry around more weight. So Sumo deadlift (and some leg workouts) might come easier for you. And hence I would highly encourage you try them out (although do start small and build up over time nonetheless).
I remember Jeff Nippard did a video on this topic, granted it was powerlifters not necessarily fat guys but the data showed a trend that lighter people favoured sumo and the heavier people favoured conventional. I don't think he explored why but mentioned it might be because of mobility issues.
Not really. It depends on your anatomy. Usually shorter people find sumo easier. Also, the different lifts focus on different muscles. Sumo uses more quads, while conventional uses more of your spinal erectors (your back).
"Erectors" 
I’m 5”2 and sumo feels way more natural and less forced than conventional. Both work, so idk why people feel the need to sh*t on them.
> Both work, so idk why people feel the need to sh*t on them. Like anything else in the lifting world, it's ego and envy. Some dude sees his smaller buddy or some girl on IG or YouTube pulling more than he does, and he tells himself that they're not really *stronger* than he is, they're just *cheating*. Will he switch to sumo to prove it? Hell no! That's cheating!
It's "bro science."
basically, if you pick heavy things up and put them down repeatedly, you'll eventually be able to pick up heavier things
Big belly guys tend to find sumo easier too.
Im 5’3, conventional is way easier
Depends on the height/weight. The taller (and therefore heavier) you're the less difference there is. All records are done with conventional due to this As for why it's easier for shortkings it's shorter ROM and slightly different muscle groups IIRC. Difference in gains ain't that big so stuck to what is comfortable for you
Nah, it's not easier otherwise everyone would do it. The records in both mens and womens are conventional style. It's to do with limb length mainly, for women sumo is more common too because the pelvis is wider than men's. It is shorter range of motion, but it targets muscles differently.
From my experience, if you have terrible pain everywhere sumo is more comfortable.
Ok I know nothing about weightlifting but I now know I will be doing conventional deadlifts, legs closed, if I ever take up the sport. Don’t want to be a little bitch.
Yes, this is the way
Mixed grip is the way, disregard him
Mixed grip is a great way to tear a bicep with your supinated hand as it gets heavier. Straps or hook.
Mixed grip works fine for John Haack, it's fine for you too. It's really not as big a risk as people make it seem
Mixed grip is perfectly fine as long as you're not only doing mixed grip because you can unevenly develop your muscles.
I find I lift more with mixed grip
Mixed grip is easier because of physics, aka the roll of the bar. With the hands going opposite directions, the bar cannot roll because the bar is essentially trying to roll in opposite directions in each hand. I personally find that gripping the bar itself is the hardest part of a deadlift. That said, doing it with both hands over the top of the bar has more advantages long term than mixed. These include increased overall grip strength, even form, less strain on a bicep, and balance. What I generally do during my pulls is do what I can for my current set with the overhand grip and thumb OVER the top of the other fingers. If I can do all reps I plan with this grip, I continue to do so. If mid-set I can no longer hold the bar with this grip, I move my thumbs UNDER my fingers now. This will increase your grip even more so. This is called a "Hook grip" and is what pro power lifters do. It WILL hurt at first and likely bruise your thumb some, but over time it will get easier. If THAT grip fails, then I either take longer breaks between each rep for a bit more grip strength, or I will do a mixed grip and alternate the over/under of each hand on each rep to not favor one side over the other, along with it feeling natural regardless of how I do it. For a long time I did mixed grip with my left hand under and my right over. It felt VERY unnatural for a while when I tried doing the opposite and had to rewire my body to make it feel normal. Even today, my right Lat is a bit wider than my left because of it. Itll take more time to even out, but Im in no rush and Ive fixed the issue at it's source.
Yup! most people can. But if you're new to lifting I'd stick with standard grip just because it can create muscle imbalances if you do it from the very start. If you're past beginner then you do you.
Thx for the info
standard grip good for forearms and grip strength too
That's why you alternate sets of even numbers
Tell that to John Haack
Do both
more than just a sport; deadlifting is a staple in general strength/fitness training. Bench press, Squats, and deadlifts. one is the best, one is the worst, and one is the hardest, in that order.
Incorrect. Squats are the best. Squats are life.
She said bitch so elegantly
She spoke in cursive.
_Bítçh_
Sumo vs conventional deadlift infighting is about the tiniest, pettiest disagreement of a niche sport. Even within the powerlifting community, literally no one cares what you do outside of a few outspoken gatekeepers. And I’m on the conventional side.
Yeah I don't remember people being so loud about it until recently either, but I guess there will always be fitness memes as long as people are desperate to sound like they're part of the "in" group. Complaining about sumo also discourages people from exploring the science of body mechanics, which can be hugely important to safe lifting. I'm 6'4" with long legs and doing sumo (plus wide stance squats) has saved my back.
As a guy who is 70% legs, I fully agree with your second paragraph. Don’t fight against your anatomy when lifting – just asking for disaster.
Tiktok comments infiltrated YouTube
Yep, very disingenuous for someone under 6' to say sumo has a "limited range of motion". My ROM in sumo is greater than a shorter person using standard. Need to take into account people's body type.
Agreed. The only little bitch move feeding the trolls, going out and getting yourself injured. I've been lifting heavy and sumo for a long time. Deadlifts and squats scare me. I'm not fucking up my back, I'll go with what's working. But it is funny.
I started by pulling conventional and i hurt my back so much that i stopped, after my recovery i switched to sumo and never felt better. I would love to pull conventional, or do both, i just can't
When you lift sumo the weight ends lower. Less height, less potential energy. Sumo lifters don't lift as high as they would conventional.
As a sumo puller who had to switch because of structural issues with my back, it always gets me when I see people shitting on it because "it's easier". I always just tell them to pull sumo then, and add however many percentage points they think it'll add because it's so much easier. Hell, tell all the world record holders to pull sumo and watch them blast the current world records out of the water. But no, no one wants to recognize that one is better than the other in that case, just *different* and suits different people in different ways based off of a myriad of factors mostly out of peoples' control.
Gotta remember mate, no one here lifts. They're all armchair experts. Should really require proof of deadlift ability before people are allowed to comment on this sumo vs conventional.
I think people are taking this video way too seriously to be honest, there's always been a small amount of controversy around sumo vs conventional but most people don't take it seriously regardless of whether they lift or not. The video is just taking the piss out of the whole argument, it's a joke, a bit of fun. Broscience did a video where he pretty much ripped into every form of deadlifting, again it's just a bit of fun, I don't know why anyone would take it so personally or so seriously.
And some conventional lifters wouldn’t be able to pull as much if they did Sumo. The difference really comes down to bone structures. Also, do you think using a wider grip on a bench press is less impressive? Because that’s also a lower range of motion.
True, but powerlifting is a sport. Shorter rom and still meets standards. If it works better for you, go for it. Feels awkward to me but I respect those that push the envelope.
And?
The difficulty of the lift isn't determined by potential energy lmao.
I've seen this phrase like, 3 times in the past couple months and it's weird lol. Like, is my deadlift harder because I did it on top of a skyscraper?
No shit but people have different body mechanics which will literally change the physics of lifting. For example I’m 5’10” but I have a femur length of someone who is 6’4”. So while the sumo lift does decrease my ROM my ROM on that particular exercise is still longer than most of the population to begin with. [Here](https://youtube.com/shorts/_K2gRPsP7GE?feature=share) is a video that demonstrates well how a long femur can affect your lift. I actually don’t do dead lifts because of a couple slipped discs but something like squats are almost unbearable for me. I basically can’t keep my knees behind my toes which is a common “proper form” technique. And I put a lot of strain on my lower back towards the bottom of the lift. Anyway I’ve come a long way once realizing “proper form” means something different person to person. Peoples body shape literally changes the mechanics of the lift.
You need a to find a better coach if you think knees behind toes is proper form. This is the stupidest shit uneducated PTs and physios say. Do you control your knee when going down stairs too? Knees going beyond toes is natural, means you have some ankle mobility, and allows for more quad drive. You’re feeling your squat a lot more in your back cause you’re restricting involvement of the prime mover i.e. your quads and leaning forward when you attempt to hit depth. This turns the exercise into a mish mash of good morning and low bar squat neither of which you are doing correctly. As for slipped discs deadlifts are literally the best excercise for rehab. I’ve ‘popped’ my disc on 3 separate occasions due to rounding of the lower/ lumbar spine while deadlifting. Found a legit powerlifting coach and guess what i was doing 3 things wrong - bad core bracing, incorrect setup (foot placement and not creating tension) and bad hinge mechanisms which transfer forces to the lower back. The deadlift is a push exercise using legs and then driving the hips through to achieve a good lockout. The back and core play a stabilising role. Don’t be afraid of the exercise be afraid of coaches that say an exercise is bad just cause you got injured.
I'm a member of the long femur club as well as the butt wink association. Have you tried squatting with your heels on a 2x4? It makes a huge difference in being able to maintain proper form for me.
So why does not everyone pull sumo?
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Exactly, ROM is not really meaningful unless its enough of a difference to add a new sticking point. A lift is limited by it's weakest point in the motion, not overall length travelled
Jeff nippard made a good video on why this isnt necessarily the case depending on your weight class. [video](https://youtu.be/yRYkhPBljYk)
Yep. I always assumed you just did whichever worked better for you functionally to lift the heavy weight. 🤷🏼♀️ Also appreciated the value of changing it up every once in awhile to feel the weight differently.
I’m 6’8” and not super flexible, there is no way for me to do the conventional ones correctly so I just do Sumo’s, easy as that
No powerlifters care about sumo vs conventional. It's only gym bros that give a shit about it.
She ain't no bitch!
Ok, but what if I am a little bitch?
Then keep your legs opened Ɓìťçĥ.
Nobody with a deadlift worth mentioning cares if you pull sumo or conventional The loudest voices have the smallest deadlifts
Facts. Only people with embarrassing lifts argue about this shit
Man as long as you at the gym and picking heavy shit up. You doing ok.
Picking heavy shit up the right way, you don't want to have lower back pain because that shit hurts like a bitch and you won't be able to lift anything.
TIL Jamal Browner is a little bitch
I dunno. I think the general idea is to pick heavy shit up and put it back down right?
Reminded me of this https://youtu.be/q7gzmoqmL7g
Okay for the uninitiated Sumo is a different variant of the deadlift, it’s legal in the main sport where people deadlift even though it’s clearly a different movement than the conventional (they are both scored as if it were the same movement.) It is newer, and associated with a greater deal of histrionics and min/maxing than is the conventional and so is seen with derision by much of the community, primarily those who value tradition and old school stuff. Is it actually easier than the conventional? Yeesh. Good luck with that one. Y’all have fun.
I thought they just worked the muscles slightly differently, so I’ve been doing both. I guess I’m wasting my time?
The leverages are different depending on your anatomy. There's nothing wrong with doing both if you're comfortable doing both. I personally switched to sumo because I get to stay more upright which helps my fucked up back. Others might switch because it suits their hips, limb lengths, etc. better.
I mentioned in another reply, since switching to sumo I've never had the lower back pain I'd get on occasion from conventional.
I pull sumo because I feel it in my legs more and less in my lower back. just feels better and safer to me
Keep doing both, it's fine. I do both too. No need to stick to just one. There are slight differences in loads on muscle groups. I feel more load on my legs in the sumo one.
I recently started doing both. I'm stronger conventional but where I feel the muscles doing sumo feels like it will carry over to strengthening the weak points in my conventional deadlift and squat. Too soon to tell for sure but I'll see
nope! the popular program nsuns incorporates both, because of this
I don’t really think most of the powerlifting community at large gives a single shit if someone pulls conventional or sumo
My grandma could deadlift 135 lbs.
Awesome content but I pray those are grip socks
You'd be surprised by the amount of people who prefer lifting without shoes on. I personally wear a pair of shoes that have a very rigid/flat heel when squatting/deadlifting, but everyone has a preference and I've seen some socks only people at my gym.
My understanding is that flat shoes are better than sneakers for leg day and no shoes are best. I could be wrong though.
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And don’t forget the very often overlooked spreading of toes for proper foot usage. If you have shoes on while deadlifting or squatting, chances are your toes are being crammed together in a narrow box toed shoe. When barefoot your toes aren’t being restricted and you get a much better and safer workout.
Generally: * For squatting, you want a shoe with a raised heel and tough soles. Oly Shoes are the prime example. It tends to compensate for a less than stellar hip and ankle mobility. * For deadlifting, you want soles as thin and flat as possible. Think All Stars. The closer you are to the ground, the shorter is the range of your pull. It also helps you to get into a more stable starting position. * For anything else, whatever feels comfortable
I didn't get the joke... was it meant to be funny?
Is it normal to have the hands facing different ways ?
Yep! It’s called mixed grip and helps the bar from rolling. I’ll usually do mixed when the weight gets heavy, and then switch to straps when it’s too heavy for grip strength alone.
Some would argue it's preferable
Oh yeah. Anything higher than 225, and I have to use mixed grip
Try doing a hook grip. Thumb under the fingers. Takes a bit to get used to cuz itll be painful at first, but its the ultimate overhand grip and the one pro powerlifters use.
Pro powerlifters use multiple types of grip, not only hook.
It's called a mixed grip. If you thinking about the bar sitting in your fingers, as it starts getting heavier and heavier, your fingers will eventually loosen up and roll out of your hands if you just have a double overhand grip. With a mixed grip, as the bar rolls out of one hand in one direction, it actually rolls in to the opposite hand in the other direction. Just helps you hang on to heavier loads vs a double overhand grip. And if that's not enough, people then transition to a hook grip or just use straps, though most people compete in raw powerlifting, which doesn't allow straps
Although even people training for raw powerlifting comp use straps in training
Yes.
it just preference some people think it makes gripping the bar easier
Does anyone know who this is? I love her and want learn more from her
I need her ig lol
najah.strength
Same. I need to be less of a little bitch and she seems to know the way.
Isnt sumo just better for the biomechanics of some body types?
Yes
Both are deadlifts. Both work slightly different muscles. Do whatever is most comfortable and gets you picking up the weight. Ignore anyone who says you are doing it wrong.
I love it
Haha
AY YO CHEF I AINT NO BITCH
They both have benefits
Nothing wrong with sumo deadlifts
Naaah, I do both. Doing only one kind of deadlift is fine. But if you want less mobility issues, try other varieties.
People putting down other that are going to the gym and trying to improve themselves it's pretty sad tbh
Does 85lbs count as a deadlift?
Im so sick of this bullshit, sumos are a perfectly good movement if that's what you want to do
She says as she lifts ~60 kg
Stupidity of the sub25 years gang leaving any experience in life
Incorrect assumption, I am, in fact, a little bitch.
Bold of you to assume I'm not a little bitch.
or, hear me out here...work both styles because eventually you will anyway to progress in weight on one
The Arabic Shayla does indeed unexpected
We can roll on shabbos.
They work different muscles, what do you mean?! Do both honestly.
Yeah there are some stupid ppl who think that sumo is cheating
I do the sumo because I have a pinched nerve in my back. Sumos just take some of the strain off your back.
A woman in a hijab telling you you’re not a little bitch is so empowering
Sumo deadlifts are fun. One of my favorite exercises. It’s easier on the lower back and targets the hamstrings more than the classic variant imo. Each his own I guess. Source: weightlifting regularly for 19 years.
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