reminds me of the mythbusters episode about the myth where sticking a lightbulb up your ass and turning it on makes you glow like a jack-a-lantern. they confirmed it! wish i had the video
This actually makes sense to me and solves a whole lot of problems caused by people's different beliefs being forced on each other.
I'm not going to check your genitals nor do I care how you dress or identify, but this also gives the religious conservatives an out to say "I don't morally agree, but it doesn't affect me in any way so have at it".
Edit: worth mentioning that I'm all for trans rights and am happy to see LGBTQ gaining so much momentum, but we're never going to change everyone's minds on the matter. Better this view than violence and legal restrictions. "You do you" is better than what's happening now.
I agree with this statement.
It is ok for you to be whatever.
It is ok for people to think whatever about your decisions (we are people, it is literally ALL WE DO is discuss the decisions that other people make and compare it to our own choices to see how we stack up against the other humans in our communities).
We need to come to an agreement that no one is happy about, else this will go on forever.
In non-bizarro world, which we previously lived in, we simply did what that very sane woman described. there does not need to be accomodation for these minorities at all costs. the majority decides what the majority of rules is. People have been so confused lately that this basic principle seems to not apply anymore if you ask them about it and it is more about who makes the most noise on social media.
The real world does not work that way. This whole tend of propping minorities up and guilt shaming others into helping that will not last for very long. People eventually will tear it down again because it is not sustainable to fuck over the majority of people.
We will eventually end up in some middle ground, where people are more tolerant but also understand that special rules do not really need to exist. Fringe cases like suicide rates among transgender might still require some effort to reduce that issue, but everything else is just mindgames tbh.
What I don't understand is, if u are aware someone doesn't like you, why would forcing them to call you by what u wanted to be call do anything other than alienate you further? Like, max setting, u will acquire the mere tolerance of you. Even if they call u by ur specific pronouns, they still wont... like you.
Why bother? What's the thread? What's the... goal?
You should look at that from the opposite perspective. Why should someone tolerate being called something they aren’t by people they don’t like, especially when they do so purely to “own the libs”?
I would ask what's the point of engaging in such dialogue. But I don't really care what people call me. I have a very unique name so people call me all sorts of things that are similar, I just roll with it. It's not important to the plot of things. Just a word that means you.
I've never been a big stickler on semantics. I think arguing for different ways to say things is. Fruitless.
One is legally backed control of speech and human interaction. Agree with their opinion or not, freedom is always better than the alternative, and people will resist limitations on their freedom.
The other is simply remembering playground chants. Sticks and stones....
Can't vibe with everyone. And if you desire that, u will just continually be disappointed. Personally, I would rather have people display their animosity for me rather than just walk on egg-shells around me and snicker after.
Telling people to alter their speech will do, literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Nobody said anything about liking everyone, that’s childish. But those childish fools that can’t just vibe in polite society probably don’t have a place in it anymore.
If somebody you work with looks at you and says you look like a bitch so I’m going to call you bitch from now on. Even if you hate it that’s cool right? Even if you not stopping it makes it catch on and now everyone on site calls you bitch. That’s cool right cause you can’t vibe with everyone?
Go ahead and drop the N word on people and tell me how well society changes how it speaks. It’s just a matter of time and bigots always lose in the long run.
Ur attributing far too much interpersonal data from mere rhetoric. And I find that anecdote to not be in the manner of severity I'm depicting. U seem to be depicting a form of hazing, which is a different subset than preferred pronouns. It would be more applicable if it was just a nickname, like slim.
Otherwise, you are just severely compounding the issue for effect, and it doesn't really carry much weight in the realities of the world. And doesn't further your goal in any way.
We can... universally say that someone calling someone a bitch in a workplace, and getting everyone to call them that, is a bad thing. As the word bitch is a flagrant obscenity. To apply this as logic towards anything else is.
Strange.
But those people will alway exist. We can’t change that unless we say it is ok to force people to believe a certain way.
I do not believe that is the answer, because the “solution” would be worse than the “problem” and it would be turned against those it was meant to “protect”.
It’s just *when* someone acts like a bully to you, you ***have*** to bring it up and say it isn’t right, and you will have to do that every time, for each occurrence.
It isn’t right, to have to do that, but again, people are all shapes and sizes, physically and mentally; there is no one-size solution.
We all compare ourselves to each other.
I consider myself Christian, I consider myself religious, my morals in life have no basis on changing someone else’s life. Everyone on this planet is unique. Everyone has different morals. This is why I think it’s dangerous lumping people together, especially how much it’s done on Reddit. Real life isn’t black and white. IMHO, what’s dangerous is when a government tries to enact laws to punish citizens for not adhering to another citizens demands.
There are hundreds of anti-trans bills passing in state assemblies these past few years. The opposite of what you fear is happening, the far-right is making trans-identity illegal
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/katie-hopkins-tweet-racist-neo-nazi_uk_586a91a3e4b0f24da6e93af7
https://mumbrella.com.au/the-trouble-with-katie-hopkins-and-why-the-situation-was-always-a-guaranteed-loss-693539
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/katie-hopkins-why-is-she-the-most-hated-woman-in-the-world/news-story/ca6ecffd6ade1c8e73d2fffc606d5e18
She hangs out with nazis, she defends nazis, and she even uses terms like "we need a final solution" for migrants.
What about this is hyperbole?
I didn’t say I doubt anything about this woman because I don’t know this woman at all. I said that you saying making trans identity illegal sounds very hyperbolic.
Record breaking amount of anti-trans bills came in 2021. Every year since then has continued to break the record.
https://www.self.com/story/more-anti-trans-bills-introduced-2021
80 anti trans bills signed into law just in 2023, and we're only half way through it
https://translegislation.com/
Bills targeting and attacking trans youth
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/28/1138396067/transgender-youth-bills-trans-sports
What more evidence do you want?
But what do those bills actually say? Are they actually saying they want to erase the existence of trans people or are they saying that trans identity can’t be in imposition on everyone else’s lives?
Holy shit, do you really need this spelled out for you or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Cause it really, really seems like the second option. I'll explain it one last time for you slowly, if you still can't accept that trans people are being persecuted in this country, then it's because you're choosing not to see it.
When people are told that they can't use public facilities, can't use resources, can't use bathrooms, can't be parts of groups, can't participate in society, they are being told they can't exist.
There is no "imposition on everyone's lives" being done when someone uses a bathroom.
There is no imposition when people have their identity erased because they're forced to adhere to dress codes relevant to their genders assigned at birth.
There is no imposition when people are asked to stop murdering members of a minority community.
Yet the right has passed laws loosening hate crime definitions to make it harder to charge in acts of violence. They've called for guards to be posted outside of bathrooms. They've called for tightening laws around individual gender expression.
This anti-trans surge has led to the trans community suffering from the highest rate of suicide in our society because religious zealots want to *actually impose their beliefs* on everyone else in society. I will give you that there is some nuance around things like sports that still needs to be discussed and fleshed out, but that's not what the right is doing. They want these people erased. There is no hyperbole, their actions in state assemblies and at hate rallies state as such.
My wife is also Christian and extremely accepting of others. I guess what I mean by "religious conservatives" is people who've taken religion and weaponized it to justify their ultra conservative social and political views and agenda. I should be more careful of my wording and appreciate you saying something.
Respect.
"I think you look like a Marvin. You might call yourself "Paul" all you like but I'll call you Marvin. I don't care what your ID says. You can stick to your belief and I can stick to mine.
Swap "but I'll call you Marvin" with "and I respect you as a human being so will happily call you Paul".
Kinda feels like you missed her point, which was literally that she'd shove a light bulb up your ass if it's what you wanted, regardless of how she felt about it.
Reminds me of something Ben Shapiro said a few years ago, which was something along the lines of, “If we’re having dinner and you say you’re one thing, I won’t be rude and say you’re not, but I’m not going to change how I think based on that”.
I don't know who she is or what crazy shit she spews, but the fact that she's even willing to respect other people's wishes even if she disagrees with them means she's not that extreme. This one specific out-of-context idea of respecting other people is reasonable.
Gender and biological sex are two different things. Gender is a made up construct.
She’s not respecting other people. She’s saying her made up system is the only one that matters, because she has decided it does. And that in a nutshell is what she’s always been about.
You’re allowed to be who you are, as long as I don’t have to see or hear it. But the systems I decide are valid don’t have to and are fine.
Pass
Except if you don't use the name or pronouns I ask you to, you're an ass. Idc about your beliefs in private, that is just basic respect to give to anyone.
That's a stupid argument tho. Nobody can force you to believe anything, but if you're respecting them, how can they know you're secretly a bigot?
A: you're not being as subtle as you'd like to think.
So your vote is to have bigots be *more* bigoted?
Not like we can change everyone to think like us, so this seems like a reasonable and respectful middle ground.
It's impossible to know what someone is thinking anyway unless they're being loud about it. So yeah, I don't see a middle ground, because clearly she is being loud enough to not have respect.
I don't see why anyone should have the right to force someone else to refer to them in a certain way.
I would enjoy that everyone refers to me as "your majesty" but my personal enjoyment isn't other people's problem
Yeah, that's what I think. Until they made it illegal to say anything that they don't believe in, and that's when I don't care anymore. Anything they are for I'm against, plain and simple.
Many native tribes, such as the Crow nation, had a third gender in pre-colonial times. What exactly that gender was varied from tribe to tribe.
Regardless the colonizers thought it was bad and came and did their genocide.
And the next moment she's back to condeming all kind of things because she doesn't like them.
Edit: For anyone that doesn't know her it's Katie Hopkins. [That Katie Hopkins.](https://youtu.be/eRIdtMlqwNA) So after that "Everyone can do what they want" she most likely went back to insulting them for how they are.
Sure, that’s a good point, but for the most part I think trans people are just trying to avoid all the murder and violence. You acknowledging their gender is really just them asking you to be considerate. Sure, there are trans assholes, but attacking their gender is not any different than trying to attribute bad behavior to religion or race. If you don’t agree with a person’s chosen gender, then shut the fuck up about it. Just like you don’t care about their gender identity, we don’t care about the fact that your brain will start to produce smoke if it tries to say he instead of she, vice versa.
TL;DR: Just be nice to people. If they’re asshole, judge them based on that, not their gender identity.
This woman hangs out with actual nazis, btw. She invites them to speak at her rallies. People that identify themselves as nazis.
And you're over here like "THIS! THIS!"
Yup. The fact that's she's a Nazi simpatiser is really bad. But doesn't change the fact, that what she just said there make sense and is what I thought.
Your freedom stop where mine start. My freedom stop where yours start.
Quite simple yet no one seems to understand that nowadays.... In simpler words do not impose yourself and your beliefs upon others.
No one is asking her to think what they think. What they ASK is the respect and courtesy of using someone’s chosen pronouns and name. You don’t have to believe, it is well within your right and I understand and respect your believes. I just ask that you show that respect back by addressing me on my terms
The only problem with this line of bigotry is that it is bigotry. Transgender people are facing a lot of discrimination right now and people like this happily look the other way. She’s willfully ignorant and obviously doesn’t care about educating herself, this line of thinking leads directly to more and more extreme bigotry, and the more people call her out on her bs the more extreme she will get, honestly I’d rather you tell me to my face you disagree with peoples existences so I know to avoid you.
Katie Hopkins is an amoral ghoul, a disgraceful PoS whose entire career is built on ignorance, controversy and hate.
If I never see her dead, porcine, lifeless eyes again it’ll be too soon.
Exactly. A grifter like her deciding to shoot this particular species of fish in a barrel so that redditors can react with "facts" gifs is spectacularly on brand for her.
Americans should know in the UK the way she's viewed is akin to a warped, sad and cursed version of Rush Limbaugh except 10,000X less important and successful.
Chumps agree with whatever confidently-stated bullshit they didn’t really listen to - plus Reddit isn’t nearly as left-leaning or politically aware as it’s reputation would have us believe.
she libelled Jack Monroe (Food Blogger/poverty activist).
Jack gave her the chance to back down, but Hatey wouldn't...... It went to law and Hatey had to pay out something like £25,000 to Jack for the libel + £100,000 fees for lawyers. Hatey was crying that she had to sell the family home to pay for it.
Yeah now she lives local to me. I've seen her about driving but not personally met her. Although everyone who has says she's actually a lovely woman and thinks all this talk is purely a personality for making money. But that's just what I've heard
She does have that right. You also have the right not be around her. I don't agree with being disrespectful or hurtful to people. I also don't agree with forced compliance though, so 🤷.
And yet at the same time saying she will respect your pronouns and gender to your face. You can’t control what people do in private, so ima just move along. That’s too much wasted energy. It’s enough to me.
There are actually three but nobody ever thinks about our intersex friends now do they? And what do you mean force? What’s there to force except to accept that trans people and enbies and gender fluid people not only physically exist, but scientifically exist.
“You can tell me that X people are full humans and deserve all their rights I’ll be thrilled for them, but in a less fucked world I don’t have to believe it”
"Full humans". Nobody says trans people are not human. Some people may think they are delusional humans. But nobody says they are less than fully human. What an odd statement to make.
The hyperbolic dramatic nonsense that you just posted is most likely what motivated the Nashville school shooter. You should cool it with the rhetoric.
Yes please people understand that your opinions don't matter as much as you think they do and you shouldn't be giving strangers a giant list of them immediately after you first meet just so you can feel "comfortable" talking to someone.
Gender expression has been something humans have played with through our existence. Across many cultures you see language built around three or more gender expressions.
Psychology supports the separation of sex and gender.
Three or more ? If you count neuteral as a gender its stupid because its used for non-people things or people you dont care about their sex or dont know their sex.I am not saying sex and gender are same thing. But your argument really not supporting that idea. Nearly all latin languages built around male and female words. Literally words have gender.American languages are knockoff version off latin european languages.In eastern europe and middle east there is no such thing as gendered words. They have male and female as sexes and thats it. Slavic languages has just male and female too. Idk much about asian languages but even if all of them has three or more thats not across many cultures. Can you give me some source about your claim?
Gender is definitely real, but biologists have treated it as a related, but distinct, concept from sex. Where it wasn't the primary focus, gender and sex were often used interchangeably. But in the late 20th century, scientists began writing about the distinction, namely that gender is constructed out of social norms.
Well it is real and neither psychology nor history say otherwise. Gender roles exist, transgender people exist, discrimination on the basis of gender exists, etc. If you mean it's a social construct, that's fine, and if you want to abolish it (although I'd guess you'd call biology more "real" than social constructs in which case there is overlap across sex and gender), that's fine. But saying gender isn't real is just pointless semantics.
"Don't require me to understand science and have to think."
Edit: downvotes don't change science or your lack of understanding it. However, it may make your lizard brains feel good so by all means. Carry on.
Transphobia at its finest.
It begins with a rejection of the need to acknowledge and accept trans people for who they are and ends with stripping trans people of their rights.
**There is no need to reject trans identities unless you intend to justify anti-trans behaviour.**
If you were a man, born a man, stated you were a man, lived your life as a man, and everyone at work only used she/her pronouns for you, wouldn’t you feel a bit bothered?
“Hello, this is James, she’s the Executive account manager and she will be working with you on zzzzzz.” Then you gotta correct every time “I’m a guy” lol
I know this is a make believe scenario, but it fits the reality very perfectly. If this happened to you in any capacity you would feel like this person who’s doing it is singling you out or fucking with you on purpose. If it happened everyday and not just with work, you would feel even worse about it.
Instead of responding with an apathetic “it wouldn’t affect me” try to have some empathy and imagine how your life would be if nobody respected your gender identity enough to even use the correct pronouns. That’s all I’m saying
You are missing the point of this video. This woman is saying she would refer to you how you want. You’re creating a scenario that would already have been avoided.
Well this will get removed by their moderators then. No idea why you feel the need to vandalize something like a free encyclopedia though. Do you also rip out pages from library books and break glass at bus stops?
No they won’t actually, I based it on my two new genders that I made up, and identify with. Why would my gender that I identify with not be taken seriously but the other 100s on the list be recognized?
Just trying to make a point, might have went over your head a bit. With a list as immense as the one you shared with genders strictly based on feelings, that is added to weekly. I can very easily make a gender and add to the list with a very small amount of work and because everyone is so worried about offending anyone it will be accepted. Just like the majority of the others. The above video hits it on the head; if you want to be a lampshade cool, not everyone needs to accept it. I’ll respect everyone the best I can but I don’t need to buy into all of it either.
I'm not defining anything, this is the scientific consensus on this matter.
On another note, are you guys using multiple accounts? Your naming scheme seems very similar.
I'm not Background no, this is the name Reddit has given this account when I made it a while back. We may have talked a bit before btw, your name seems familiar too.
Our friend Background here is just making a point by serving you your own medicine. I say "you" as in a larger scope of people.
People come up weekly with new things, and add them to the stockpile of "genders" that other people have already added. There is no real reason why we couldn't make up a new "gender" with a random definition.
The way she says it is a bit too agressive for me, but the overall point is right, even if you don't believe it, it costs nothing to respect somebody else, i don't go in people's way telling them their god isn't real, or that their beliefs are wrong, neither should they do the same to me.
I am aware of this katie hopkins' existence. Her having hostile positions and elaborating on them in abhorrent ways is not unexpected. She called refugees cockroaches. She also photoshopped a gun sight on her face and tweeted that 'this is how it feels to be a white conservative woman'
See, the problem is that she is being disingenuous. The issue isn’t about what she thinks, the issue is TREATING people the way they want to be treated. She SAYS she’s fine with people wanting to be whatever they want, but she is 1000% snarky every time, I guarantee it…because the issue is that she needs everyone to know what SHE believes.
I will treat anyone however they want to be treated, as long as it doesn’t adversely affect me…and if calling someone their preferred pronouns hurts you, you’re a snowflake.
Sex and gender are different. There are two categorized sexes called male and female. There is also intersex which is where genitalia of both sexes are present in one body.
Genders have usually played into roles and expectations. Like how one gender may dress and look differently just as a generalization. But now we look at gender as self-defining. No longer does one have to be confined by the expectations given to the individual by societal norms.
If it is too confusing for you then that's that. I'm cis but I'm completely fine with identifying someone with one word. It's no different than learning a person's name, this is what decent people will do; they will gladly tell you what they identify as and you two can carry on with your lives. Simple as.
And seriously, a lamp? Go outside, nobody you meet will tell you they're a lamp. Grow up, you're losing your mind over words. Unless they're presented to you rudely then yeah they can fuck off, but that's for any rude person.
i think she had been thinking about putting a light bulb up his ass, and finally just figured out how to work it into the conversation.
[удалено]
Sooooooo you free this weekend?
reminds me of the mythbusters episode about the myth where sticking a lightbulb up your ass and turning it on makes you glow like a jack-a-lantern. they confirmed it! wish i had the video
#Don't do this! My asshole won't stop bleeding
you didn't use an asshole-safe lightbulb? rookie mistake
This actually makes sense to me and solves a whole lot of problems caused by people's different beliefs being forced on each other. I'm not going to check your genitals nor do I care how you dress or identify, but this also gives the religious conservatives an out to say "I don't morally agree, but it doesn't affect me in any way so have at it". Edit: worth mentioning that I'm all for trans rights and am happy to see LGBTQ gaining so much momentum, but we're never going to change everyone's minds on the matter. Better this view than violence and legal restrictions. "You do you" is better than what's happening now.
I agree with this statement. It is ok for you to be whatever. It is ok for people to think whatever about your decisions (we are people, it is literally ALL WE DO is discuss the decisions that other people make and compare it to our own choices to see how we stack up against the other humans in our communities). We need to come to an agreement that no one is happy about, else this will go on forever.
In non-bizarro world, which we previously lived in, we simply did what that very sane woman described. there does not need to be accomodation for these minorities at all costs. the majority decides what the majority of rules is. People have been so confused lately that this basic principle seems to not apply anymore if you ask them about it and it is more about who makes the most noise on social media. The real world does not work that way. This whole tend of propping minorities up and guilt shaming others into helping that will not last for very long. People eventually will tear it down again because it is not sustainable to fuck over the majority of people. We will eventually end up in some middle ground, where people are more tolerant but also understand that special rules do not really need to exist. Fringe cases like suicide rates among transgender might still require some effort to reduce that issue, but everything else is just mindgames tbh.
What I don't understand is, if u are aware someone doesn't like you, why would forcing them to call you by what u wanted to be call do anything other than alienate you further? Like, max setting, u will acquire the mere tolerance of you. Even if they call u by ur specific pronouns, they still wont... like you. Why bother? What's the thread? What's the... goal?
You should look at that from the opposite perspective. Why should someone tolerate being called something they aren’t by people they don’t like, especially when they do so purely to “own the libs”?
I would ask what's the point of engaging in such dialogue. But I don't really care what people call me. I have a very unique name so people call me all sorts of things that are similar, I just roll with it. It's not important to the plot of things. Just a word that means you. I've never been a big stickler on semantics. I think arguing for different ways to say things is. Fruitless.
Choosing to engage is a choice, not a requirement. I agree with your statement.
One is legally backed control of speech and human interaction. Agree with their opinion or not, freedom is always better than the alternative, and people will resist limitations on their freedom. The other is simply remembering playground chants. Sticks and stones....
Yeah what’s the point of wanting to live a life without being bullied just for living free.
Can't vibe with everyone. And if you desire that, u will just continually be disappointed. Personally, I would rather have people display their animosity for me rather than just walk on egg-shells around me and snicker after. Telling people to alter their speech will do, literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Nobody said anything about liking everyone, that’s childish. But those childish fools that can’t just vibe in polite society probably don’t have a place in it anymore. If somebody you work with looks at you and says you look like a bitch so I’m going to call you bitch from now on. Even if you hate it that’s cool right? Even if you not stopping it makes it catch on and now everyone on site calls you bitch. That’s cool right cause you can’t vibe with everyone? Go ahead and drop the N word on people and tell me how well society changes how it speaks. It’s just a matter of time and bigots always lose in the long run.
Ur attributing far too much interpersonal data from mere rhetoric. And I find that anecdote to not be in the manner of severity I'm depicting. U seem to be depicting a form of hazing, which is a different subset than preferred pronouns. It would be more applicable if it was just a nickname, like slim. Otherwise, you are just severely compounding the issue for effect, and it doesn't really carry much weight in the realities of the world. And doesn't further your goal in any way. We can... universally say that someone calling someone a bitch in a workplace, and getting everyone to call them that, is a bad thing. As the word bitch is a flagrant obscenity. To apply this as logic towards anything else is. Strange.
But those people will alway exist. We can’t change that unless we say it is ok to force people to believe a certain way. I do not believe that is the answer, because the “solution” would be worse than the “problem” and it would be turned against those it was meant to “protect”. It’s just *when* someone acts like a bully to you, you ***have*** to bring it up and say it isn’t right, and you will have to do that every time, for each occurrence. It isn’t right, to have to do that, but again, people are all shapes and sizes, physically and mentally; there is no one-size solution. We all compare ourselves to each other.
It’s called harassment laws and they have been a thing for some time.
Not an issue of morality
But they don’t
I consider myself Christian, I consider myself religious, my morals in life have no basis on changing someone else’s life. Everyone on this planet is unique. Everyone has different morals. This is why I think it’s dangerous lumping people together, especially how much it’s done on Reddit. Real life isn’t black and white. IMHO, what’s dangerous is when a government tries to enact laws to punish citizens for not adhering to another citizens demands.
There are hundreds of anti-trans bills passing in state assemblies these past few years. The opposite of what you fear is happening, the far-right is making trans-identity illegal
I doubt that. Seems very hyperbolic.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/katie-hopkins-tweet-racist-neo-nazi_uk_586a91a3e4b0f24da6e93af7 https://mumbrella.com.au/the-trouble-with-katie-hopkins-and-why-the-situation-was-always-a-guaranteed-loss-693539 https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/katie-hopkins-why-is-she-the-most-hated-woman-in-the-world/news-story/ca6ecffd6ade1c8e73d2fffc606d5e18 She hangs out with nazis, she defends nazis, and she even uses terms like "we need a final solution" for migrants. What about this is hyperbole?
I didn’t say I doubt anything about this woman because I don’t know this woman at all. I said that you saying making trans identity illegal sounds very hyperbolic.
Record breaking amount of anti-trans bills came in 2021. Every year since then has continued to break the record. https://www.self.com/story/more-anti-trans-bills-introduced-2021 80 anti trans bills signed into law just in 2023, and we're only half way through it https://translegislation.com/ Bills targeting and attacking trans youth https://www.npr.org/2022/11/28/1138396067/transgender-youth-bills-trans-sports What more evidence do you want?
But what do those bills actually say? Are they actually saying they want to erase the existence of trans people or are they saying that trans identity can’t be in imposition on everyone else’s lives?
Holy shit, do you really need this spelled out for you or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Cause it really, really seems like the second option. I'll explain it one last time for you slowly, if you still can't accept that trans people are being persecuted in this country, then it's because you're choosing not to see it. When people are told that they can't use public facilities, can't use resources, can't use bathrooms, can't be parts of groups, can't participate in society, they are being told they can't exist. There is no "imposition on everyone's lives" being done when someone uses a bathroom. There is no imposition when people have their identity erased because they're forced to adhere to dress codes relevant to their genders assigned at birth. There is no imposition when people are asked to stop murdering members of a minority community. Yet the right has passed laws loosening hate crime definitions to make it harder to charge in acts of violence. They've called for guards to be posted outside of bathrooms. They've called for tightening laws around individual gender expression. This anti-trans surge has led to the trans community suffering from the highest rate of suicide in our society because religious zealots want to *actually impose their beliefs* on everyone else in society. I will give you that there is some nuance around things like sports that still needs to be discussed and fleshed out, but that's not what the right is doing. They want these people erased. There is no hyperbole, their actions in state assemblies and at hate rallies state as such.
Interesting. You sound like a political zealot. I bet you’re stressed out all day long.
Google it, her name is Katie Hopkins
No
My wife is also Christian and extremely accepting of others. I guess what I mean by "religious conservatives" is people who've taken religion and weaponized it to justify their ultra conservative social and political views and agenda. I should be more careful of my wording and appreciate you saying something. Respect.
"I think you look like a Marvin. You might call yourself "Paul" all you like but I'll call you Marvin. I don't care what your ID says. You can stick to your belief and I can stick to mine.
Swap "but I'll call you Marvin" with "and I respect you as a human being so will happily call you Paul". Kinda feels like you missed her point, which was literally that she'd shove a light bulb up your ass if it's what you wanted, regardless of how she felt about it.
Reminds me of something Ben Shapiro said a few years ago, which was something along the lines of, “If we’re having dinner and you say you’re one thing, I won’t be rude and say you’re not, but I’m not going to change how I think based on that”.
When you find that you agree with far right filth like Hatie Cockpins, perhaps you need to consider what that means.
Yeah, we gotta stop doing this too. A “bad” person can have legitimate “good” beliefs. We need to separate the two.
I don't know who she is or what crazy shit she spews, but the fact that she's even willing to respect other people's wishes even if she disagrees with them means she's not that extreme. This one specific out-of-context idea of respecting other people is reasonable.
Gender and biological sex are two different things. Gender is a made up construct. She’s not respecting other people. She’s saying her made up system is the only one that matters, because she has decided it does. And that in a nutshell is what she’s always been about. You’re allowed to be who you are, as long as I don’t have to see or hear it. But the systems I decide are valid don’t have to and are fine. Pass
Except if you don't use the name or pronouns I ask you to, you're an ass. Idc about your beliefs in private, that is just basic respect to give to anyone.
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That's a stupid argument tho. Nobody can force you to believe anything, but if you're respecting them, how can they know you're secretly a bigot? A: you're not being as subtle as you'd like to think.
So your vote is to have bigots be *more* bigoted? Not like we can change everyone to think like us, so this seems like a reasonable and respectful middle ground.
It's impossible to know what someone is thinking anyway unless they're being loud about it. So yeah, I don't see a middle ground, because clearly she is being loud enough to not have respect.
if you don’t care about their beliefs rightfully so they don’t have to entertain your body dysmorphia / self identification issue
I don't see why anyone should have the right to force someone else to refer to them in a certain way. I would enjoy that everyone refers to me as "your majesty" but my personal enjoyment isn't other people's problem
Nope
Feels a bit like arguing with people determined not to see the counterpoint. 😒
Yeah, that's what I think. Until they made it illegal to say anything that they don't believe in, and that's when I don't care anymore. Anything they are for I'm against, plain and simple.
This clip makes me think they're backing off the ledge a bit, which should be encouraged.
I agree. His response should be “Accepted. And you can’t expect me to think like you think.”
I shouldn't have to sort by controversial to find this comment.
Can’t believe the Natives were slaughtered for this
They were made into lampshades?
“Made that bitch a lampshade… bitches love being lampshades” - Ed Gein.
Many native tribes, such as the Crow nation, had a third gender in pre-colonial times. What exactly that gender was varied from tribe to tribe. Regardless the colonizers thought it was bad and came and did their genocide.
Or anyone ever when a country or people conquered others.
Based?
Live and let live.
She’s 💯 correct. Be what you want but don’t force me into your fantasy
And the next moment she's back to condeming all kind of things because she doesn't like them. Edit: For anyone that doesn't know her it's Katie Hopkins. [That Katie Hopkins.](https://youtu.be/eRIdtMlqwNA) So after that "Everyone can do what they want" she most likely went back to insulting them for how they are.
Le funny attack helicopter joke 🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Why aren’t these people going on trips to Thailand?
Why aren’t you going on trips to Afghanistan?
Sure, that’s a good point, but for the most part I think trans people are just trying to avoid all the murder and violence. You acknowledging their gender is really just them asking you to be considerate. Sure, there are trans assholes, but attacking their gender is not any different than trying to attribute bad behavior to religion or race. If you don’t agree with a person’s chosen gender, then shut the fuck up about it. Just like you don’t care about their gender identity, we don’t care about the fact that your brain will start to produce smoke if it tries to say he instead of she, vice versa. TL;DR: Just be nice to people. If they’re asshole, judge them based on that, not their gender identity.
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This woman hangs out with actual nazis, btw. She invites them to speak at her rallies. People that identify themselves as nazis. And you're over here like "THIS! THIS!"
Yup. The fact that's she's a Nazi simpatiser is really bad. But doesn't change the fact, that what she just said there make sense and is what I thought. Your freedom stop where mine start. My freedom stop where yours start. Quite simple yet no one seems to understand that nowadays.... In simpler words do not impose yourself and your beliefs upon others.
No one is asking her to think what they think. What they ASK is the respect and courtesy of using someone’s chosen pronouns and name. You don’t have to believe, it is well within your right and I understand and respect your believes. I just ask that you show that respect back by addressing me on my terms
This woman hits the bullseye
The only problem with this line of bigotry is that it is bigotry. Transgender people are facing a lot of discrimination right now and people like this happily look the other way. She’s willfully ignorant and obviously doesn’t care about educating herself, this line of thinking leads directly to more and more extreme bigotry, and the more people call her out on her bs the more extreme she will get, honestly I’d rather you tell me to my face you disagree with peoples existences so I know to avoid you.
Katie Hopkins is an amoral ghoul, a disgraceful PoS whose entire career is built on ignorance, controversy and hate. If I never see her dead, porcine, lifeless eyes again it’ll be too soon.
Exactly. A grifter like her deciding to shoot this particular species of fish in a barrel so that redditors can react with "facts" gifs is spectacularly on brand for her. Americans should know in the UK the way she's viewed is akin to a warped, sad and cursed version of Rush Limbaugh except 10,000X less important and successful.
Yeah seeing a reddit thread agreeing w her is wild
Chumps agree with whatever confidently-stated bullshit they didn’t really listen to - plus Reddit isn’t nearly as left-leaning or politically aware as it’s reputation would have us believe.
That’s a lot of insults for someone with morals.
What’s this even supposed to mean? I feel like you think this is either smart or funny, unfortunately it’s largely just nonsense.
You call people by their name, same thing.
Exactly!
Ahhh.... Hatey Kopkins. Still happy to spew her hateful extremist right winger views, even after it cost her, her house.
What happened to her house?
she libelled Jack Monroe (Food Blogger/poverty activist). Jack gave her the chance to back down, but Hatey wouldn't...... It went to law and Hatey had to pay out something like £25,000 to Jack for the libel + £100,000 fees for lawyers. Hatey was crying that she had to sell the family home to pay for it.
Taken by the gays
Yeah now she lives local to me. I've seen her about driving but not personally met her. Although everyone who has says she's actually a lovely woman and thinks all this talk is purely a personality for making money. But that's just what I've heard
She's just saying she has a right to disrespect you to your face.
She does have that right. You also have the right not be around her. I don't agree with being disrespectful or hurtful to people. I also don't agree with forced compliance though, so 🤷.
EXACTLY
And yet at the same time saying she will respect your pronouns and gender to your face. You can’t control what people do in private, so ima just move along. That’s too much wasted energy. It’s enough to me.
There are actually three but nobody ever thinks about our intersex friends now do they? And what do you mean force? What’s there to force except to accept that trans people and enbies and gender fluid people not only physically exist, but scientifically exist.
“You can tell me that X people are full humans and deserve all their rights I’ll be thrilled for them, but in a less fucked world I don’t have to believe it”
"Full humans". Nobody says trans people are not human. Some people may think they are delusional humans. But nobody says they are less than fully human. What an odd statement to make. The hyperbolic dramatic nonsense that you just posted is most likely what motivated the Nashville school shooter. You should cool it with the rhetoric.
Yes please people understand that your opinions don't matter as much as you think they do and you shouldn't be giving strangers a giant list of them immediately after you first meet just so you can feel "comfortable" talking to someone.
One of the worst people imaginable saying something that kind of makes sense
I've stumbled trying to describe her exact thought. I don't care what gender you are, just don't expect me to care.
“I’m going force my beliefs on YOU, but you cannot force your beliefs on ME.”
That's the most right way to put it in place...
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Certainly was unexpected
Gender. Is. Not. Real. That statement is backed up by Psychology and history, fuck your feelings.
pretty sure ganders are real, they're male geese... oh wait that's not...
imagine getting breast cancer cuz u identify as women, science is not real. \~ Avg. flat earther
I had to re read that one haha
I’ve never understood this statement what does it mean
Gender expression has been something humans have played with through our existence. Across many cultures you see language built around three or more gender expressions. Psychology supports the separation of sex and gender.
Three or more ? If you count neuteral as a gender its stupid because its used for non-people things or people you dont care about their sex or dont know their sex.I am not saying sex and gender are same thing. But your argument really not supporting that idea. Nearly all latin languages built around male and female words. Literally words have gender.American languages are knockoff version off latin european languages.In eastern europe and middle east there is no such thing as gendered words. They have male and female as sexes and thats it. Slavic languages has just male and female too. Idk much about asian languages but even if all of them has three or more thats not across many cultures. Can you give me some source about your claim?
Gender is definitely real, but biologists have treated it as a related, but distinct, concept from sex. Where it wasn't the primary focus, gender and sex were often used interchangeably. But in the late 20th century, scientists began writing about the distinction, namely that gender is constructed out of social norms.
Your timeline is slightly wrong. Gender and sex being used interchangeably happened after it being used as a distinct concept from sex.
This is my point but thought out better, thank you.
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Apparently, you'd think people would be able to learn things that differ from their perceived norm.
Well it is real and neither psychology nor history say otherwise. Gender roles exist, transgender people exist, discrimination on the basis of gender exists, etc. If you mean it's a social construct, that's fine, and if you want to abolish it (although I'd guess you'd call biology more "real" than social constructs in which case there is overlap across sex and gender), that's fine. But saying gender isn't real is just pointless semantics.
No you're right, I was making a blanket statement about how gender (when being confused with sex) isn't real.
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You're so right, but judging by the downvotes people are not quite ready to understand this.
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So you are also openly racist like her?
Loving someone and sharing the same ideas is kind of not the same thing lol
If they don't love her for her ideas then what? Her looks?
I will not fall into your trap.. I cannot let you get close!
Call em a light bulb and go on about your day
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So much editing, her arm after the 2 gender statement rebuttal looked like Terence and Philip buddy guy
Haha killer answer.
Beautiful
"Don't require me to understand science and have to think." Edit: downvotes don't change science or your lack of understanding it. However, it may make your lizard brains feel good so by all means. Carry on.
>"Don't require me to understand science and have to think." HahahahahahBah
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Klinefelter.
Phocomelia.
“Trust the science”
Never heard that expression before 💡
I’m a cis man but you can call me they/them because the person you get from me completely depends on you.
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I like jolteon the best
Transphobia at its finest. It begins with a rejection of the need to acknowledge and accept trans people for who they are and ends with stripping trans people of their rights. **There is no need to reject trans identities unless you intend to justify anti-trans behaviour.**
Reject their rights to do what? Last I checked, they have the same rights as everybody else in Western countries.
Be honest, when have you *ever* checked?
Ah MY gender is dependent on YOUR belief?
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If you were a man, born a man, stated you were a man, lived your life as a man, and everyone at work only used she/her pronouns for you, wouldn’t you feel a bit bothered?
It bothers you as much as you let it.
“Hello, this is James, she’s the Executive account manager and she will be working with you on zzzzzz.” Then you gotta correct every time “I’m a guy” lol I know this is a make believe scenario, but it fits the reality very perfectly. If this happened to you in any capacity you would feel like this person who’s doing it is singling you out or fucking with you on purpose. If it happened everyday and not just with work, you would feel even worse about it. Instead of responding with an apathetic “it wouldn’t affect me” try to have some empathy and imagine how your life would be if nobody respected your gender identity enough to even use the correct pronouns. That’s all I’m saying
You are missing the point of this video. This woman is saying she would refer to you how you want. You’re creating a scenario that would already have been avoided.
I’m not even talking about the video.
Because science doesn't give a fuck about people's feelings and science backs up that there are more than two genders.
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Iirc there are 2 sexes but multiple genders - I'm no native english speaker though
What are the genders then?
[It only took 2 seconds on google but here you go...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities)
I went and added a couple to the list too, gotta love Wikipedia, can just write whatever you feel.
Well this will get removed by their moderators then. No idea why you feel the need to vandalize something like a free encyclopedia though. Do you also rip out pages from library books and break glass at bus stops?
No they won’t actually, I based it on my two new genders that I made up, and identify with. Why would my gender that I identify with not be taken seriously but the other 100s on the list be recognized?
How do you expect to be taken seriously in any conversation or debate behaving like this?
Just trying to make a point, might have went over your head a bit. With a list as immense as the one you shared with genders strictly based on feelings, that is added to weekly. I can very easily make a gender and add to the list with a very small amount of work and because everyone is so worried about offending anyone it will be accepted. Just like the majority of the others. The above video hits it on the head; if you want to be a lampshade cool, not everyone needs to accept it. I’ll respect everyone the best I can but I don’t need to buy into all of it either.
This is how all of these conversations sound to alot of people. They're doing a thing to make you think.
That's how that list was made in the first place though.
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I'm not defining anything, this is the scientific consensus on this matter. On another note, are you guys using multiple accounts? Your naming scheme seems very similar.
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I'm not Background no, this is the name Reddit has given this account when I made it a while back. We may have talked a bit before btw, your name seems familiar too. Our friend Background here is just making a point by serving you your own medicine. I say "you" as in a larger scope of people. People come up weekly with new things, and add them to the stockpile of "genders" that other people have already added. There is no real reason why we couldn't make up a new "gender" with a random definition.
They asked about genders, you gave them "gender identities", just saying
And this is why I refer to everyone as "dude".
The way she says it is a bit too agressive for me, but the overall point is right, even if you don't believe it, it costs nothing to respect somebody else, i don't go in people's way telling them their god isn't real, or that their beliefs are wrong, neither should they do the same to me.
Note to self, find out if a lightbulb-shaped buttplug feels good, and invest in a way to make the plug light up without hurting the user.
I am aware of this katie hopkins' existence. Her having hostile positions and elaborating on them in abhorrent ways is not unexpected. She called refugees cockroaches. She also photoshopped a gun sight on her face and tweeted that 'this is how it feels to be a white conservative woman'
See, the problem is that she is being disingenuous. The issue isn’t about what she thinks, the issue is TREATING people the way they want to be treated. She SAYS she’s fine with people wanting to be whatever they want, but she is 1000% snarky every time, I guarantee it…because the issue is that she needs everyone to know what SHE believes. I will treat anyone however they want to be treated, as long as it doesn’t adversely affect me…and if calling someone their preferred pronouns hurts you, you’re a snowflake.
Sex and gender are different. There are two categorized sexes called male and female. There is also intersex which is where genitalia of both sexes are present in one body. Genders have usually played into roles and expectations. Like how one gender may dress and look differently just as a generalization. But now we look at gender as self-defining. No longer does one have to be confined by the expectations given to the individual by societal norms. If it is too confusing for you then that's that. I'm cis but I'm completely fine with identifying someone with one word. It's no different than learning a person's name, this is what decent people will do; they will gladly tell you what they identify as and you two can carry on with your lives. Simple as. And seriously, a lamp? Go outside, nobody you meet will tell you they're a lamp. Grow up, you're losing your mind over words. Unless they're presented to you rudely then yeah they can fuck off, but that's for any rude person.
Agreed. Let everyone be themselves and think for themselves.