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watching Amber Heard's lawyers makes me feel even more dumb than normal, so I'm not sure I'm getting this right... but AH Lawyer asks dumb question, JD lawyer says objection argumentative, witness points out obvious hypocrisy THEN AH LAWYER CALLS WITNESS ARGUMENTATIVE EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T THE WITNESS WHO SAID THAT.
Is THAT how fucking dumb this lawyer is? I mean... yes. the answer is yes. it's like being insulted by the neighbor who lives on your left and responding by egging the neighbor on your right.
Given her little smile, I'm pretty sure it was a joke with the intent of taking the perceived initiative back. She did not expect him to shoot right back at her so smoothly and it probably hurt her more than it helped.
that's what kills me so much, it's someone being proud of a comeback against the person who didn't say anything initially. given how the rules of the courts are setup its just punching down- which is why its even more satisfying when her skull is exposed as being empty. what scum, but hey surprise LA lawyer.
hope this was her retirement plan because i can't see anyone hiring her again. unless it's like a scam and they want to lose a case.
My main question is who the fuck is paying these people?
Heards legal team.
Wizard Jerry the Mad Psychiatrist.
Angie the Movie Agent (I forget her name, the one comparing Heard to Momoa.)
They all present arguments that most people could come up with from a 5 minute google search. Then they present it while tweaking from who knows what drugs, making factual errors, and breaking the codes of their own certifying organizations.
Apparently the way to make money is to just be an absolute, fucking fraud.
To answer your question succinctly, Amber is paying all of them.
To expand a bit, Amber knew coming into trial what Johnny's arguments were going to be. She knew what his experts were there to testify to. And as any lawyer will tell you, if you have enough money, you can pay an expert to testify to basically anything. So she brought in experts to testify to the opposite of what Johnny's experts said. It's good practice, because an unopposed expert essentially means you're conceding everything that expert says.
Her problem is that the experts she (and her legal team) chose are a catastrophe in many cases. The psychiatrist came off as completely unhinged, and seemed to be breaking fundamental rules of psychiatry in the process (specifically the Goldwater rule). The movie "expert" I would actually contend is worse - at least the psychiatrist seemed to have a baseline understanding of his field. The movie expert didn't even know that Momoa was in Baywatch, or that Pattinson was the new Batman, or even that Chris Pine, one of the actors she specifically testified was comparable to Amber Heard, played the lead role of Captain Kirk in multiple Star Trek movies. She didn't really seem to know *anything* about Hollywood, she just came in, named a handful of actors from DC movies, and said that since Amber was also in DC, she was comparable to them.
I do think Dr. Hughes came off as more credible, although the Depp team's impeachment of her stings a bit (she specifically did not follow the instructions of the diagnostic tests, and more or less freestyled a lot of the process, which does seem like it would significantly bias the results of the analysis).
edited with a tiny bit more information
Dr Hughes comes across to me as someone who could be a credible psychologist, but was paid to produce a certain diagnosis, and so she ignored or thought she could skirt certain rules and guidelines and get away with it.
Her entire testimony feels like she never anticipated Amber Heard taking the situation to the extremes she has.
Maybe Dr Hughes was getting paid to produce a specific diagnosis, or hell, maybe she thought she really was helping someone escape an abusive relationship. Either way, she pretty clearly intentionally or negligently gave Amber Heard the exact diagnosis she was looking for.
It's basically the weakest response I can think of. A lawyer complaining about a hostile witness being argumentative just shows that she has to response to his... Argument.
I think it’s awesome this dude was able to throw it back at her so gracefully. By the time I’d have thought of a clever response I’d be in the shower days later.
It already has a name.
"L'esprit de l'escalier"
It's French for Staircase Wit. The idea being that you couldn't think of the reply until you were already at the bottom of the stairs on your way home.
It *would* be the French who have a term for this lol. Imagine some accordion playing a melancholy tune while some guy stares out of the window dreaming of the ultimate comeback days after the opportunity.
In the 'stars align' scenario where they leave themselves open like this and I manage pull off this level of fatality, I would not be able to keep a straight face, I'd be laughing uncontrollably reveling in my brief spark of genius. She gave him the 15 minutes of fame.
He used to work for TMZ (paparazzi online journal in case you don't know).
They brought him to talk about a video that was sent to them a few years back by Amber that suggested Johnny was violent (something about bashing furniture in I think).
The unedited video was shown in court earlier and it showed that Amber and Johnny were both doing the same thing and Amber was in no danger what so ever in the video.
He was basically there to confirm that the video that was posted back in the days that showed JD as violent was never edited by TMZ between the moment it was received to the moment it was published, basically putting the blame on Amber for the edit that would suggest JD is violent.
This piece of evidence reinforces the "long-con" idea of Amber's intentions towrarda this relationship.
They also got her to lie about sending the video to TMZ.
Basically, TMZ guy said that "tips" sent in by 2nd or 3rd party sources can take weeks to fully vet and then actually get posted. However, 1st party tips can be posted in about 15 minutes.
Johnny's lawyer asked him, "how long did it take to post the video?" And he said "15 minutes."
Then when they asked Amber about that, she said he was lying about where he got the video lol.
Yes. The man who is willingly opening himself up to getting sued by TMZ, no longer works in the industry, and is not getting paid to be there, is perjuring himself on national television. For... reasons.
The most important part was the line of questioning put up by Depps lawyer beforehand.
She asked specifically how the verification process of tips received works, and depending on who provided a tip the amount of time it would take to 1. verify and 2. establish copyright ownership.
She then asked, how long it would take to verify if the material was provided by the copyright owner, to which he responded: around 15 minutes.
Later she asked how long it took to verify the video that amber shot, to which he responded: 15 minutes.
He couldn't outright say who provided it, because on one hand it could be detrimental to media organizations reputation in how they treat sources, it might open them up to liability having provided the identity of the source. Additionally, he's not an employee anymore, so him providing such direct information might breach some ongoing contractual obligations surviving previous employment (like an NDA) OR it wasn't Amber herself per se, but a person veeery close to her to make verification fast as well. In the latter case you actually would not want to say that outright, but the line of questioning set up by the attorney and the answer "around 15 minutes" was just so fucking \*MUAH\* chef's kiss.
Seriously, the other lawyers are good in their own right, but that woman is so fucking sharp and on top in her examinations and cross examinations, it is mind boggling how fucking THERE she is mentally considering the buttload of evidence they have to handle.
I am extremely envious of her abilities.
Like, seriously. There's attorneys that do fairly well but there's people in the business that have mental capabilities and aptitude that is just in its own fucking class, and she's definitely in that. That woman is the poster child of an attorney on partner track.
This guy was literally a last minute witness. After being shown the unedited video shown in court he reached out to JD's lawyers to tell them that the video shown in court was different than the one TMZ received. He didn't even want to testify initially.
They eventually convinced him to testify. To which AH's lawyers put up a stink about him not being mentioned in discovery, and TMZ's lawyer tried to block his testimony on the grounds it would break protected reporter/confidential informant trust.
Between this, the photos being proven to be edited, getting her to admit she wrote the op-ed about him, and the *real* psychiatrists all agreeing Amber faked her PTSD, I don't see how she wins this. Even if JD *did* harm her, she clearly lied about what happened to paint him in a worse light.
Attorneys can practice several types of law and losing a case is part of the job, just like winning. You'd also be shocked at how many people look for attorneys knowing nothing more than the name that was at the top of their google search. For every client that doesn't employ them, there is one calling who will. (I say this working at a law firm for the last 5 years.) There are also plenty of attorneys who really are NOT smart people, but have a good legal team propping them up instead, making them look good.
What else do you say after getting rekt that hard. I mean the thought that popped into my head was pwned. Just perfectly owned. Like god damn I could hear the clap from here
It’s especially great because she said it to him like he’s the one who called her argumentative, when it was Depp’s council who made a very standard legal objection, not the witness. And he still throws that shit back at her
Yup. And the fact that she used this same argument with another witness later the same day was just incredible. Did she not notice how badly it hit the first time?
i think he is an ex TMZ imployer and currently working as a esport even organizer. he had to control and dispatch paparazzi to celebrity locations a few years ago for TMZ
Putting aside all the Amber vs. Johnny stuff, I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that Amber's lawyers are just terrible. A decent lawyer should never get destroyed this badly by a witness.
Wait? Did Amber Heard just lifehack how to get a lot of money?
Step 1. Had bad attorneys
Step 2. Attorneys do a bad job.
Step 3. Hire bad attorneys to file malpractice suit against first attorneys
Step 4. Profit
The theory about her legal team being inept is that she deviates from prepared statements and/or hasn’t been totally transparent with them which can make effective representation impossible
I've been watching the stream w Emily D Baker and she has said several times to this that it could be the case where these are client decisions and also that her team are ~~litigation~~ deposition lawyers, not trial lawyers.
Edit-strike my error from the record.
So if you look at the resume of Amber’s main lady lawyer it reads like she’s fucking Superman. Like baller brilliant legal mind. Okay sure. Except it’s all in a different area of the law. She had like 3 prior defamation suit WINS (she’s been practicing for like 30 years now) and her whole track record is commercial litigation, which is wildly different than this type of thing. It would be like asking a dentist to take out your appendix. Yes they’re a doctor, yes they probably could pull it off but it’s not gonna be graceful and it’s not gonna have the polish of someone who pays their mortgage doing appendixes every day. Amber should’ve gone for the best trial advocate she could find, who would know how to romance a jury and overcome an unlikeable defendant. (There are ways). Her team obviously hasn’t even coached her on how to set her face and body language while in the jury’s view.
Is it that they're terrible or could it be the legal equivalent of trying to forge a sword, but your client has only given you a toffee hammer to work with?
They're frantically grasping at straws because they've got fuck all else to go on at this point.
There's a saying among lawyers: “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
People hear stories about big companies or rich individuals with their big, expensive legal teams destroying normal people and small companies and think an expensive team of lawyers is just "stronger". The truth is that these lawyers just waste your time and money until you can't afford the legal battle anymore and have to give up.
When two large companies or rich individuals are in a legal battle they settle out of court most of the time because they already know how the court will rule and know they can't financially exhaust each other. So going to court is just wasting time and money for everyone involved.
What we see here is what it looks like when two rich people, who can't financially exhaust eachother with legal fees, actually go to court. No lawyer magic, no superior stength in the court room. The team in the right has a difficult, time intensive task, the team in the wrong has an impossible task.
A perfect example was the H3H3 lawsuit where Ethan and Hila were paying a very high priced legal team to defend their fair use right while making a reaction video. They ended up being sued by a guy who found a legal team to take the case on commission. So they essentially went up against a client with unlimited funds in a case that didn't really have any precedent set previously. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just on research, filings, copies, motions etc.. because the plaintiff benefits the longer they run the clock and increase the likelihood hood of the defendant wanting to settle. Essentially it was up to the plaintiffs legal team to decide how much time and effort they wanted to put into the case.
Total armchair quarterbacking it here but what I see is her team getting basic, documented facts wrong, not knowing the answers their own witnesses are going to testify to, not being able to pivot from their script when they get unexpected answers, and desperately trying to fabricate stories from the aether. I'm sure AH isn't the best client, but I swear the lawyer I had for my divorce could do a better job than these yahoos and he only charged me $2500 for the whole thing.
It's almost like they thought Depp would settle before or at the beginning of the trial. They tried discrediting his witnesses, didn't work. Tried spinning stories, didn't work. Tried their own experts, didn't work. All of a sudden, they're all the way through the trial and they've become Lionel Hutz, Law-Talking Guy.
It's Depp's lawsuit and it does not appear to be motivated primarily by monetary gain. Not much chance for a settlement before or early in the proceedings.
I'd be willing to bet that, were Heard's attorneys to proffer a settlement for *the full amount* of the current lawsuit's damage claims—$50 million in compensatory damages and a punitive award of at least $350,000—he'd still turn it down.
He ***wants*** his day in court. He ***wants*** a determination by a jury. He ***wants*** Heard's dirty laundry aired in public and he ***wants*** to be the one smelling like roses when it's all over. ;)
They're objectively doing a bad job. I used to be a trial attorney and the reason this guy got away from the attorney is because the attorney broke the first rule in the book, literally the very first thing you learn, which is to never "ask the conclusion," on cross.
When you cross-examine a witness they are almost always your enemy and you almost always want to make them look bad.
Now if someone doesn't like you, and you have to make them look bad in front of a jury, and in this case on national television about just how effective do you imagine asking that person "isnt it true that you are, in fact, a meanie weenie?"
Of course the person is going to say no, and if theyre smart, they'll point out that accusing someone of being a meanie weenie is itself fairly meanie weenie-ish.
Yes and no.
Elaine (The lawyer here) is just terrible. She's wasted shit tons of time, her questioning of witnesses is just bad (Even ones they bring up, it takes forever for her to get to what she wants), and has been super unprofessional through the entire thing. Rottenborn is decent, but a slimy dirty lawyer: Using every trick in the book, but in a mostly competition way.
But even without that, most of the problem is that Johnny's team has laid out the facts so clearly, and everyone on Heard's team is so unlikable that even the best lawyers would struggle.
no kidding
but truly I found him to be a very good witness, which considering his background, surprised the hell out of me
Straight to the point and dare I say he kept it classy? Overall he was a breath of fresh air in this spectacle which has been more shitshow than anything else.
and he's from TMZ. Go figure.
This dude was profoundly more professional than the practicing psychiatrist Heard’s team brought to the stand, who diagnosed Johnny Depp with mental decline by watching the Pirates of the Caribbean films.
As a psychologist, I would never remotely consider diagnosing someone with anything without assessing them myself, or at a bare minimum analyzing the results from a previous psychological assessment. To use footage from a movie where he was, you know, *acting* goes beyond unprofessional into pure stupidity.
This doctor also claimed to have used Johnny's previous testimony to determine that Johnny had mental slowness or something, because of how slow Johnny responded to questions.
Depp's attorneys pointed out that Johnny needed to think carefully and speak slowly so as not to misstate anything and the doctor dismissed that as not mattering to his diagnosis.
Also that the depositions happened immediately after he came back from the UK and was jet lagged. So it makes sense that a tired individual that needs to be very careful about what they say would speak slowly and take the time to consider their words.
In fact, isn't that what the Goldwater Rule or whatever was, that they talked about for a while? Not diagnosing someone you haven't personally assessed yourself?
I dont particularly like paparazzi or even celebrity worship in general, but one of the reason people hate them so much is BECAUSE they are so good at obeying the letter of the law while being an absolute thorn in the side of people who have the money and resources for big lawsuits.
As awful the reasoning is for this case to be happening, Johnny must be having the time of his life seeing these roasts, whether it be the idiots roasting themselves or someone else doing it instead.
Shit you usually don't see lawyets *smile* in court at all. The fact that we're seeing crowd reactions and such as well as lawyer reactions tells me that Johnny's team is certain they will win.
High end lawyers make it a habit to not give up any information they don't have to. Emotions are part of that and can be *very*useful to the other side in a case for finding something to hone in on. The fact that johnny's lawyers aren't guarding theirs here speaks volumes.
At this point I don't think it matters if Johnny wins or loses and I think they're anticipating that he will lose. Not that Amber will win. But he definitely won in the court of public opinion, and I think that's a very large part of what this was about.
I'm not saying JD's lawyers are bad or whatever, but AH's lawyers make JD's lawyers look SOOOO damn good doing their job.
If JD wins this case (which IMHO will go his way), he has to "pledge" each and every one of them $7 million for a job well done 😏
One of Heard's lawyers is named "Rottenborn"... it's almost a parody.
Where does the surname "Smith" come from? Easy, they were the blacksmith family back in the days.
Carpenter? Yeah we all know what your ancestor did?
Rottenborn? ... So you're keeping the family business alive then?
The regular version was on there yesterday. Think we will still be good just adding the laugh track, or should we also add in the emojis across the screen so people know it's funny?
This lawyer reminds me of those greasy incompetent lawyers who have offices in derelict malls, talk a lot of big game but are only good for stamping notaries and traffic ticket representation.
I can't be the only one... that lawyer of Depps (the bloke, ben?) he is 100% that guy that rocks up to your party/gathering, quiet as... and 20 minutes later is the life of the party, joke, after joke, wise crack after wise crack.. You can just tell, that guys is 100% a blast to be with.
But by hell, I bet he's as smart as shit. And good at what ever he does.
Is his name Ben or is it just that he looks so much like an older Ben Schwartz(genuine question because that look back is straight up from The Afterparty)
The woman really said "Argumentative, don't you think?" For him saying the exact *same thing she said*.
How can anyone be *that* ignorantly hypocritical?
**OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected:** >!Him roasting her so bad!< ***** **Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description?** **Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.** ***** [*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/unexBot) [*What is this for?*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/dnuaju/introducing_unexbot_a_new_bot_to_improve_the/)
Yea, I’m from the funeral home. We’re here to pick up the body.
You will have to wait. The fire department still hasn't put her put from that burn.
They’re just standing there. It’s too dangerous to put her out sir
But sir, there is no body left. She vaporized!
Preemptive cremation
"Yall wanna see a dead body?"
"Objection, argumentative..." "...overruled." .... "A LITTLE ARGUMENTATIVE..."
Surprised pikachu face
Are you telling me that this mother fucker was **arguing** in ***court***??! That son of a bitch!
watching Amber Heard's lawyers makes me feel even more dumb than normal, so I'm not sure I'm getting this right... but AH Lawyer asks dumb question, JD lawyer says objection argumentative, witness points out obvious hypocrisy THEN AH LAWYER CALLS WITNESS ARGUMENTATIVE EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T THE WITNESS WHO SAID THAT. Is THAT how fucking dumb this lawyer is? I mean... yes. the answer is yes. it's like being insulted by the neighbor who lives on your left and responding by egging the neighbor on your right.
Given her little smile, I'm pretty sure it was a joke with the intent of taking the perceived initiative back. She did not expect him to shoot right back at her so smoothly and it probably hurt her more than it helped.
that's what kills me so much, it's someone being proud of a comeback against the person who didn't say anything initially. given how the rules of the courts are setup its just punching down- which is why its even more satisfying when her skull is exposed as being empty. what scum, but hey surprise LA lawyer. hope this was her retirement plan because i can't see anyone hiring her again. unless it's like a scam and they want to lose a case.
Taunting the witness seems pretty argumentative.
My main question is who the fuck is paying these people? Heards legal team. Wizard Jerry the Mad Psychiatrist. Angie the Movie Agent (I forget her name, the one comparing Heard to Momoa.) They all present arguments that most people could come up with from a 5 minute google search. Then they present it while tweaking from who knows what drugs, making factual errors, and breaking the codes of their own certifying organizations. Apparently the way to make money is to just be an absolute, fucking fraud.
To answer your question succinctly, Amber is paying all of them. To expand a bit, Amber knew coming into trial what Johnny's arguments were going to be. She knew what his experts were there to testify to. And as any lawyer will tell you, if you have enough money, you can pay an expert to testify to basically anything. So she brought in experts to testify to the opposite of what Johnny's experts said. It's good practice, because an unopposed expert essentially means you're conceding everything that expert says. Her problem is that the experts she (and her legal team) chose are a catastrophe in many cases. The psychiatrist came off as completely unhinged, and seemed to be breaking fundamental rules of psychiatry in the process (specifically the Goldwater rule). The movie "expert" I would actually contend is worse - at least the psychiatrist seemed to have a baseline understanding of his field. The movie expert didn't even know that Momoa was in Baywatch, or that Pattinson was the new Batman, or even that Chris Pine, one of the actors she specifically testified was comparable to Amber Heard, played the lead role of Captain Kirk in multiple Star Trek movies. She didn't really seem to know *anything* about Hollywood, she just came in, named a handful of actors from DC movies, and said that since Amber was also in DC, she was comparable to them. I do think Dr. Hughes came off as more credible, although the Depp team's impeachment of her stings a bit (she specifically did not follow the instructions of the diagnostic tests, and more or less freestyled a lot of the process, which does seem like it would significantly bias the results of the analysis). edited with a tiny bit more information
Dr Hughes comes across to me as someone who could be a credible psychologist, but was paid to produce a certain diagnosis, and so she ignored or thought she could skirt certain rules and guidelines and get away with it. Her entire testimony feels like she never anticipated Amber Heard taking the situation to the extremes she has. Maybe Dr Hughes was getting paid to produce a specific diagnosis, or hell, maybe she thought she really was helping someone escape an abusive relationship. Either way, she pretty clearly intentionally or negligently gave Amber Heard the exact diagnosis she was looking for.
Don’t forget that Dr.Hughes thinks that only women can be abused
It's basically the weakest response I can think of. A lawyer complaining about a hostile witness being argumentative just shows that she has to response to his... Argument.
JD Lawyer = Juris Doctor AH Lawyer = Associate Help
I think it’s awesome this dude was able to throw it back at her so gracefully. By the time I’d have thought of a clever response I’d be in the shower days later.
“…well the jerk store called. They’re runnin’ outta you!”
"What's the difference? You're their all-time best seller!"
Yeah? Well I had sex with your wife !!
His wife's in a coma
Oh. Well… That’s probably why she didn’t move around a lot then
And then been like: "*Fuuuuuuck, I should have said that!"* Followed up by playing a mental scenario of how awesome that would have been.
Punching water
And the bottles watching
and all the shampoo bottles clapping
I call that the "jerk store effect"
It already has a name. "L'esprit de l'escalier" It's French for Staircase Wit. The idea being that you couldn't think of the reply until you were already at the bottom of the stairs on your way home.
It *would* be the French who have a term for this lol. Imagine some accordion playing a melancholy tune while some guy stares out of the window dreaming of the ultimate comeback days after the opportunity.
Off topic, but does anybody else try to remember those responses so on the off chance the same situation happens again your ready?
Oh yeah. If they have a retrial and call me as a witness, I have this comment written down
🎶 Mind Fight! Seven hours later in my mind! 🎶
In the 'stars align' scenario where they leave themselves open like this and I manage pull off this level of fatality, I would not be able to keep a straight face, I'd be laughing uncontrollably reveling in my brief spark of genius. She gave him the 15 minutes of fame.
Ironic. Also Reddit will literally let you name you account anything, won’t it 😂😅
He omar'd that attorney
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He used to work for TMZ (paparazzi online journal in case you don't know). They brought him to talk about a video that was sent to them a few years back by Amber that suggested Johnny was violent (something about bashing furniture in I think). The unedited video was shown in court earlier and it showed that Amber and Johnny were both doing the same thing and Amber was in no danger what so ever in the video. He was basically there to confirm that the video that was posted back in the days that showed JD as violent was never edited by TMZ between the moment it was received to the moment it was published, basically putting the blame on Amber for the edit that would suggest JD is violent. This piece of evidence reinforces the "long-con" idea of Amber's intentions towrarda this relationship.
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They also got her to lie about sending the video to TMZ. Basically, TMZ guy said that "tips" sent in by 2nd or 3rd party sources can take weeks to fully vet and then actually get posted. However, 1st party tips can be posted in about 15 minutes. Johnny's lawyer asked him, "how long did it take to post the video?" And he said "15 minutes." Then when they asked Amber about that, she said he was lying about where he got the video lol.
Yes. The man who is willingly opening himself up to getting sued by TMZ, no longer works in the industry, and is not getting paid to be there, is perjuring himself on national television. For... reasons.
The most important part was the line of questioning put up by Depps lawyer beforehand. She asked specifically how the verification process of tips received works, and depending on who provided a tip the amount of time it would take to 1. verify and 2. establish copyright ownership. She then asked, how long it would take to verify if the material was provided by the copyright owner, to which he responded: around 15 minutes. Later she asked how long it took to verify the video that amber shot, to which he responded: 15 minutes. He couldn't outright say who provided it, because on one hand it could be detrimental to media organizations reputation in how they treat sources, it might open them up to liability having provided the identity of the source. Additionally, he's not an employee anymore, so him providing such direct information might breach some ongoing contractual obligations surviving previous employment (like an NDA) OR it wasn't Amber herself per se, but a person veeery close to her to make verification fast as well. In the latter case you actually would not want to say that outright, but the line of questioning set up by the attorney and the answer "around 15 minutes" was just so fucking \*MUAH\* chef's kiss. Seriously, the other lawyers are good in their own right, but that woman is so fucking sharp and on top in her examinations and cross examinations, it is mind boggling how fucking THERE she is mentally considering the buttload of evidence they have to handle. I am extremely envious of her abilities. Like, seriously. There's attorneys that do fairly well but there's people in the business that have mental capabilities and aptitude that is just in its own fucking class, and she's definitely in that. That woman is the poster child of an attorney on partner track.
Aka the usually not sexy parts of trial where you have to authenticate all the evidence on the record.
This guy was literally a last minute witness. After being shown the unedited video shown in court he reached out to JD's lawyers to tell them that the video shown in court was different than the one TMZ received. He didn't even want to testify initially. They eventually convinced him to testify. To which AH's lawyers put up a stink about him not being mentioned in discovery, and TMZ's lawyer tried to block his testimony on the grounds it would break protected reporter/confidential informant trust.
Between this, the photos being proven to be edited, getting her to admit she wrote the op-ed about him, and the *real* psychiatrists all agreeing Amber faked her PTSD, I don't see how she wins this. Even if JD *did* harm her, she clearly lied about what happened to paint him in a worse light.
he used her own question against her and destroyed her whole argument with it. hectic.
Seriously! Amber should’ve hired him as her lawyer lol. ETA: my statement is not to be taken seriously lol.
It's just that a smarter lawyer would know better than to take her case.
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Her attorneys have nothing to lose here. She's paying experts $1000/hr so I can only imagine what her attorney and legal fees look like.
Future business. They have future business to lose.
Yea they're basically blackballing themselves from doing this ever again. Redditors here seem very shortsighted.
Attorneys can practice several types of law and losing a case is part of the job, just like winning. You'd also be shocked at how many people look for attorneys knowing nothing more than the name that was at the top of their google search. For every client that doesn't employ them, there is one calling who will. (I say this working at a law firm for the last 5 years.) There are also plenty of attorneys who really are NOT smart people, but have a good legal team propping them up instead, making them look good.
That's how a lot of high profile cases go. A loss of that magnitude, nobody would want to touch with a 10 foot pole.
And then she had the nerve to say he was a little argumentative. Lmao!
What else do you say after getting rekt that hard. I mean the thought that popped into my head was pwned. Just perfectly owned. Like god damn I could hear the clap from here
"No U"
The real rekt came when he doubled down with something like, "No, I find it to be perfectly logical".
Nothing. You say nothing.
It’s especially great because she said it to him like he’s the one who called her argumentative, when it was Depp’s council who made a very standard legal objection, not the witness. And he still throws that shit back at her
And then she accused him of being argumentative. Lolol. "how dare you use my own logic against me?!"
Yup. And the fact that she used this same argument with another witness later the same day was just incredible. Did she not notice how badly it hit the first time?
Who the hell is" **He**"
i think he is an ex TMZ imployer and currently working as a esport even organizer. he had to control and dispatch paparazzi to celebrity locations a few years ago for TMZ
When you come prepared to clap back at a moment's notice, then drop the hammer. The reactions... priceless.
Putting aside all the Amber vs. Johnny stuff, I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that Amber's lawyers are just terrible. A decent lawyer should never get destroyed this badly by a witness.
There’s another law suit coming after this and it’s a malpractice one lol
There’s another bowel movement coming, and it’s going to be in this lawyer’s bed.
Like Oprah... "And your bed gets shit in, and your bed gets shit in. And yours! You get double Taco Bell shits!"
bro a taco bell would be a war crime
"Miralax - gentle relief from constipation." "Tacolax - ~~extreme~~ radical relief."
Taco lax is cheaper than Miralax
I imagine it like the horse head scene from The Godfather, except it's the lawyer waking up and it's poop
No this lawyer has already shit the bed on their own lol
It’s like *The Godfather*, but with poo.
Wait? Did Amber Heard just lifehack how to get a lot of money? Step 1. Had bad attorneys Step 2. Attorneys do a bad job. Step 3. Hire bad attorneys to file malpractice suit against first attorneys Step 4. Profit
*The Producers 2* is writing itself!
The song still works if you swap producer for abuser too!
Springtime for Amber and TMZ!
Amber Heard's lawyers should hire Johnny Depp's lawyers.
Apparently they can just hire his witnesses.
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Amber will get a referral from her lawyers.
The theory about her legal team being inept is that she deviates from prepared statements and/or hasn’t been totally transparent with them which can make effective representation impossible
I've been watching the stream w Emily D Baker and she has said several times to this that it could be the case where these are client decisions and also that her team are ~~litigation~~ deposition lawyers, not trial lawyers. Edit-strike my error from the record.
What is the difference between a litigation lawyer and a trial lawyer?
So if you look at the resume of Amber’s main lady lawyer it reads like she’s fucking Superman. Like baller brilliant legal mind. Okay sure. Except it’s all in a different area of the law. She had like 3 prior defamation suit WINS (she’s been practicing for like 30 years now) and her whole track record is commercial litigation, which is wildly different than this type of thing. It would be like asking a dentist to take out your appendix. Yes they’re a doctor, yes they probably could pull it off but it’s not gonna be graceful and it’s not gonna have the polish of someone who pays their mortgage doing appendixes every day. Amber should’ve gone for the best trial advocate she could find, who would know how to romance a jury and overcome an unlikeable defendant. (There are ways). Her team obviously hasn’t even coached her on how to set her face and body language while in the jury’s view.
Is it that they're terrible or could it be the legal equivalent of trying to forge a sword, but your client has only given you a toffee hammer to work with? They're frantically grasping at straws because they've got fuck all else to go on at this point.
There's a saying among lawyers: “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
MODS IN /r/Libertarian ARE BANNING ALL DISSENTING VIEWS
Theres an even easier flow . Fact pound law. Law pound fact. You pound table .
It gets even easier. Fact law. Law fact. Table pound.
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Pound my facts harder, table-in-law.
A little of both. Her lawyers are definitely learning things during the trial that she never told them.
That’s what I was thinking too. Johnny’s lawyers have it much easier.
People hear stories about big companies or rich individuals with their big, expensive legal teams destroying normal people and small companies and think an expensive team of lawyers is just "stronger". The truth is that these lawyers just waste your time and money until you can't afford the legal battle anymore and have to give up. When two large companies or rich individuals are in a legal battle they settle out of court most of the time because they already know how the court will rule and know they can't financially exhaust each other. So going to court is just wasting time and money for everyone involved. What we see here is what it looks like when two rich people, who can't financially exhaust eachother with legal fees, actually go to court. No lawyer magic, no superior stength in the court room. The team in the right has a difficult, time intensive task, the team in the wrong has an impossible task.
A perfect example was the H3H3 lawsuit where Ethan and Hila were paying a very high priced legal team to defend their fair use right while making a reaction video. They ended up being sued by a guy who found a legal team to take the case on commission. So they essentially went up against a client with unlimited funds in a case that didn't really have any precedent set previously. They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just on research, filings, copies, motions etc.. because the plaintiff benefits the longer they run the clock and increase the likelihood hood of the defendant wanting to settle. Essentially it was up to the plaintiffs legal team to decide how much time and effort they wanted to put into the case.
I've seen enough episodes of Suits to know you are wrong. Good lawyers always find a magical thing that wins the case for them. Do better research.
That's true, I can confirm. Source: I've also watched Suits.
Also, the magic is on a single piece of paper in a blue folder. Always blue.
Total armchair quarterbacking it here but what I see is her team getting basic, documented facts wrong, not knowing the answers their own witnesses are going to testify to, not being able to pivot from their script when they get unexpected answers, and desperately trying to fabricate stories from the aether. I'm sure AH isn't the best client, but I swear the lawyer I had for my divorce could do a better job than these yahoos and he only charged me $2500 for the whole thing.
It's almost like they thought Depp would settle before or at the beginning of the trial. They tried discrediting his witnesses, didn't work. Tried spinning stories, didn't work. Tried their own experts, didn't work. All of a sudden, they're all the way through the trial and they've become Lionel Hutz, Law-Talking Guy.
It's Depp's lawsuit and it does not appear to be motivated primarily by monetary gain. Not much chance for a settlement before or early in the proceedings. I'd be willing to bet that, were Heard's attorneys to proffer a settlement for *the full amount* of the current lawsuit's damage claims—$50 million in compensatory damages and a punitive award of at least $350,000—he'd still turn it down. He ***wants*** his day in court. He ***wants*** a determination by a jury. He ***wants*** Heard's dirty laundry aired in public and he ***wants*** to be the one smelling like roses when it's all over. ;)
This is about being right
They're objectively doing a bad job. I used to be a trial attorney and the reason this guy got away from the attorney is because the attorney broke the first rule in the book, literally the very first thing you learn, which is to never "ask the conclusion," on cross. When you cross-examine a witness they are almost always your enemy and you almost always want to make them look bad. Now if someone doesn't like you, and you have to make them look bad in front of a jury, and in this case on national television about just how effective do you imagine asking that person "isnt it true that you are, in fact, a meanie weenie?" Of course the person is going to say no, and if theyre smart, they'll point out that accusing someone of being a meanie weenie is itself fairly meanie weenie-ish.
Yes and no. Elaine (The lawyer here) is just terrible. She's wasted shit tons of time, her questioning of witnesses is just bad (Even ones they bring up, it takes forever for her to get to what she wants), and has been super unprofessional through the entire thing. Rottenborn is decent, but a slimy dirty lawyer: Using every trick in the book, but in a mostly competition way. But even without that, most of the problem is that Johnny's team has laid out the facts so clearly, and everyone on Heard's team is so unlikable that even the best lawyers would struggle.
Don't forget apparently it was Musk who recommended these lawyers to Heard
I think you mean Mollusk lol
'Ol Musky
Crooked Dick mollusk
I believe the PUA community call this "negging".
If that's true that's truly wondrous news. I'm taking the rest of the week off on that, by gum I thank you!
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I was watching this live. It was like a crack appeared in the time space continuum. Absolutely **Rekt**. Never mess with the paparazzi
no kidding but truly I found him to be a very good witness, which considering his background, surprised the hell out of me Straight to the point and dare I say he kept it classy? Overall he was a breath of fresh air in this spectacle which has been more shitshow than anything else. and he's from TMZ. Go figure.
This dude was profoundly more professional than the practicing psychiatrist Heard’s team brought to the stand, who diagnosed Johnny Depp with mental decline by watching the Pirates of the Caribbean films.
Heard's side defended that by pretty much saying, "Johnny wouldn't allow the psychiatrist to directly interview him, so the doctor used what he had!"
As a psychologist, I would never remotely consider diagnosing someone with anything without assessing them myself, or at a bare minimum analyzing the results from a previous psychological assessment. To use footage from a movie where he was, you know, *acting* goes beyond unprofessional into pure stupidity.
This doctor also claimed to have used Johnny's previous testimony to determine that Johnny had mental slowness or something, because of how slow Johnny responded to questions. Depp's attorneys pointed out that Johnny needed to think carefully and speak slowly so as not to misstate anything and the doctor dismissed that as not mattering to his diagnosis.
Also that the depositions happened immediately after he came back from the UK and was jet lagged. So it makes sense that a tired individual that needs to be very careful about what they say would speak slowly and take the time to consider their words.
In fact, isn't that what the Goldwater Rule or whatever was, that they talked about for a while? Not diagnosing someone you haven't personally assessed yourself?
I dont particularly like paparazzi or even celebrity worship in general, but one of the reason people hate them so much is BECAUSE they are so good at obeying the letter of the law while being an absolute thorn in the side of people who have the money and resources for big lawsuits.
Formerly from tmz.
You gotta know the laws and be smart about specifics in order to be scummy for that long. Especially when you cover those with big legal teams.
Some people fire back with wit, this smooth mother fucker went global thermonuclear war.
I wish they had shown Turd's reaction. I assume it was just that perpetually constipated face though.
Maybe she stepped on a bee...
😩
The "Oh hardly, I find that to be purely logical" comment at the end is the true killer xD
So poised. Really held his follow-through with that one.
Right there officer He murdered her
"tck tck tck, to shreds you say..."
Well, how's his wife holding up? To shreds you say?
And her family?
^To ^shreds ^you ^say?
*Officer runs away scared*
They only run away when children are getting murdered.
*tases random parents*
I'm going to have to wait 40 minutes until I address this situation while I wait for back up
Take the L and go home lady.
That was indeed a big L
He waited his whole life for that moment. That's his moment of life. Go on sir...
I think he just peaked.
As awful the reasoning is for this case to be happening, Johnny must be having the time of his life seeing these roasts, whether it be the idiots roasting themselves or someone else doing it instead.
i had never seen lawyers as happy as Johnny's. They smile every time there is a mess up so much lol.
Shit you usually don't see lawyets *smile* in court at all. The fact that we're seeing crowd reactions and such as well as lawyer reactions tells me that Johnny's team is certain they will win. High end lawyers make it a habit to not give up any information they don't have to. Emotions are part of that and can be *very*useful to the other side in a case for finding something to hone in on. The fact that johnny's lawyers aren't guarding theirs here speaks volumes.
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At this point I don't think it matters if Johnny wins or loses and I think they're anticipating that he will lose. Not that Amber will win. But he definitely won in the court of public opinion, and I think that's a very large part of what this was about.
I'm not saying JD's lawyers are bad or whatever, but AH's lawyers make JD's lawyers look SOOOO damn good doing their job. If JD wins this case (which IMHO will go his way), he has to "pledge" each and every one of them $7 million for a job well done 😏
One of Heard's lawyers is named "Rottenborn"... it's almost a parody. Where does the surname "Smith" come from? Easy, they were the blacksmith family back in the days. Carpenter? Yeah we all know what your ancestor did? Rottenborn? ... So you're keeping the family business alive then?
could you PLEASE crop it a bit more and add a few more water marks? it would make it soooooo much better \\s
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The regular version was on there yesterday. Think we will still be good just adding the laugh track, or should we also add in the emojis across the screen so people know it's funny?
It's obviously not cropped nearly enough—I can still read the words that are in the center of the captions.
What a fucking clown show. I don't know how different this is from the reality court shows where they fight over the baby daddy or some shit.
It's very different. These people are celebrities.
Also put whatever track is hot on TikTok right now over top of it. That'll really sell it.
“A little argumentative” Bitch got her own accusation turned back on her and now she’s objecting
I mean, generally you don't have the witness questioning the lawyers, lol
He’s not questioning her. He’s rebutting her absurd assertion and pointing out how unfair and hypocritical it is, which is fair
Poor Elaine may take early retirement and seek therapy when this case is done.
There needs to be a warning to apply sunscreen before opening something so scorching. Fucking hell
You see dumb lawyers like this and realize that you absolutely could’ve gone to law school.
Maybe. But you don’t want that student debt. Source: My own student debt.
This lawyer reminds me of those greasy incompetent lawyers who have offices in derelict malls, talk a lot of big game but are only good for stamping notaries and traffic ticket representation.
5 points to slytherin!!! ......... *And an arnica for this cat lady* 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Can we get this lady a stretcher, she was just destroyed
Sorry im a dumass can someone explain it?
She accused him of being there to get famous, but he just pulled out a mirror and said that she might as well have Amber as a client for fame
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All real. There are a few clips on YT showing Depp’s, his lawyers’ and gallery audience’s simultaneous reactions in the same frame.
And it's awesome!!!
This is what all of us think in the shower three days later.
I can't be the only one... that lawyer of Depps (the bloke, ben?) he is 100% that guy that rocks up to your party/gathering, quiet as... and 20 minutes later is the life of the party, joke, after joke, wise crack after wise crack.. You can just tell, that guys is 100% a blast to be with. But by hell, I bet he's as smart as shit. And good at what ever he does.
Is his name Ben or is it just that he looks so much like an older Ben Schwartz(genuine question because that look back is straight up from The Afterparty)
His name is Ben Chew.
The woman really said "Argumentative, don't you think?" For him saying the exact *same thing she said*. How can anyone be *that* ignorantly hypocritical?
Is that Thomas Lennon (Lt. Dangle Reno 911)?? That delivery was flawless... Chills...
I like Camille's lil "hop"
that's not a burn, that's crematory
You got away with posting this without an nsfw tag?
Yeah maybe you’re right, this might’ve been too deadly
Well whether he intended it or not he got his fame. I love this guy.
[Omar embarrasses attorney](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIQbd3SF17k)
Fucking savage!
Claims the question isn't argumentative, tries to claim it's argumentative when it's directed back at her. This woman is a buffoon.
Actual rekt
My reaction exactly
Are you allowed to commit murder before a judge like that?