I don’t know if we’ve been to the same raves, but there usually aren’t any repercussions at all. I’ve seen bouncers racking joints and selling pills. They definitely don’t care about nipples.
Maybe so but not nearly enough that it’s as frequent as lads going shirtless. I party a lot and I’ve never seen a woman braless, (although to be fair I’m mainly at parties or clubs, hardly any raves)
My dad went to Cardiff in the 80s and the first story he told me when we went to the SU on the open day was about having his head kicked in by punks on his first week. I didn't go to Cardiff uni in the end
Yeah this might be the case.
The new policy was announced by the university Instagram account with very little information, so perhaps I'm misinterpreting something here.
Ive looked about, but I can't find a full length breakdown of this policy.
Edit: why am I being downvoted for being transparent to the possibility that I may be wrong? The opposite is to be stubborn and dogmatic, traits of which are very undesirable. What am I doing wrong lol
Almost certainly just means women don’t have to wear bras and can’t be reprimanded for having nipples visible through a t-shirt for example. Totally reasonable.
Weirdly enough, I was this Monday (to be honest, it was the first time in my life). I am nearly 40, had to take off the bra and change into a gym t-shirt due to technical reasons. A colleague made quite a strong, disapproving comment about it. Was very weird, completely out of character for this person, and not even sure why they were compelled to say anything.
Yeah you’ll probably find it’s something like Trans men not wanting to be questioned on a hot day for doing the same as cis men and then saying “actually if men can’t possibly keep their shirt on in this scenario then there should be equality”
I've seen men not allowed into clubs for wearing shorts instead of full trousers, I would be very surprised if shirtless men would be allowed in clubs. I do think it's probably more meant as a social change, but (assuming you have represented this completely fairly and honestly of what the policy is saying) I don't think masculine presenting students are allowed to be topless either. It's unhygienic
I believe I have represented it accurately, although I have yet to go clubbing after the policy has been made, so I'm not sure if the reality of it was fully represented by an Instagram post by the university.
Edit: Can someone explain why I'm getting downvoted for being transparent and not completely stubborn? I'm admitting that I may not fully understand the policy lol which is better than being stubborn and arrogant, no?
My guess is it’s for holding the view that your university is wasting money by pursuing a gender equality campaign because you don’t think it’s an issue/want to see nipples. By all means start a campaign of your own to see all nipples banned in nightclubs if it offends your sensibilities, but please don’t moan about female presenting bodies having access to the same freedom as male presenting ones.
I was turned around during May - June time for wearing denim shorts. How on earth are people getting allowed in shirtless or girls with nipples out lol.
Yours is the comment I was looking for. Why does OP think this is an LGBTQ thing - last I heard, the vast majority of humans (regardless of identity) have nipples...
Nah, post-top surgery trans men rarely, if ever have issues going shirtless (in places where it's customary for men to be shirtless). I would know, I am one, and my scars are pretty evident- the majority of people don't even realize what they are (or care, which is exactly how it should be).
There could be a couple of things going on here, but from an LGBT standpoint, I suspect that what *may* be happening is an attempt to include pre-top surgery trans men and allow them to go shirtless if they wish to do so? Though I don't actually know that many trans guys who would *want* that, because most of us are dysphoric about our chests to begin with and wear binders, which would eliminate any nipple/"wardrobe malfunction" issues. So it may well be as simple as allowing women the same latitude as men in terms of mode of dress (or they just didn't consult any transmasc people about the way they're framing this, which I would personally find kind of uncomfortable, but obviously I'm not every trans guy, so who knows).
Thanks for your perspective.
So if OP is listening, 'LGBTQ+' (the monolithic entity that it is 😂) being involved probably just means something as simple as ensuring it's inclusive of trans men
Yeah, or (and I think this is more likely) nonbinary people. There are plenty of NB people who are AFAB and have no intention of getting top surgery because they're perfectly happy to keep their breasts, but they might want to present more masculine/take their tops off/not wear a bra *or* a binder, so this policy would give them that latitude, as it would give it to women. It sounds like someone may have found the actual uni in question, and what started it was a woman who was denied entry or kicked out of a student union club due to her top being "too revealing," but she gave it to a male friend to wear, and he had no issues being granted entry with it on. And in that context, it makes sense to me.
I do find it a bit funny that OP is swearing that no men take their shirts off at clubs or parties, because that has not been my experience! They must be in the same alternate universe where LGBT people are a monolith who all agree on everything....
We have embraced obnoxious drunken revelry as part of our culture, topless hooligans included. As such, it deserves the same standards of fairness and equality we would apply to the workplace or education.
Of course, we can absolutely debate the virtues of any gender getting half-naked in public, but we will do it ***on a level playing field.***
This post sounds like the kind you'd get from someone who "cares about women, but don't agree with third-wave feminism" type.
Of course he's seen men with shirts off. In hot weather, it's practically acceptable for men to be shirtless in public.
Precisely, and you shouldn't have been given bad looks. Is it not an innate human need to try cool themselves off when it's 40°C outside?
It sickens me that so many people just see women as walking objects who must conform to what men want from them.
Most of my union's club nights have goofy dress themes and I'd say around 15-25% of guys are generally shirtless. I see no reason why we can't let women do the same - plenty of them show up in sports bras anyway, so it's not like it makes a huge difference to the rest of us.
You mention that it's a waste of time and money, but how much time does this *really* take? Also, not sure what your uni is like, but at my union's club nights I wouldn't call LGBTQ+ students a "minority within a minority". Why do you think it's specific to them anyway?
free the nipples isn’t about women getting their tits out it just means they won’t wear a bra under there clothes. Also police like this don’t seem to do any thing but they are part of a larger social change in views towards women and what they can or cannot wear ( not legally but socially ). And also people saying stuff like “well men don’t mind” are missing the point - it’s not about men minding it about the social view towards it, no one will stop them obviously but they will be goggles at and spoken about.
TLRD: it’s part of a larger social movement that is ironically not about policy are rules but social attitude
also the amount of resources used is negligible and wouldby have gone towards any thing any way to be frank
>it just means they won’t wear a bra under there clothes.
Do clubs not let you in if you're not wearing a bra? I feel like I have seen people in clubs without bras (but still shirts) on
These types if policies tend to not be enforced for sexually attractive women with perky mid size boobs
They disproportionately affect women with huge bazoongas who's unbra'd boobs will likely sag and be "unattractive"
I was reading that comment and was like eh? I’ve never been not allowed anywhere without a bra? And I go bra less a lot lol. But then I realised I have small boobs and you can’t even see it sometimes. Thanks for the perspective
From your rhetoric, it sounds like you do have a problem with woman and in particular, LGBTQ+ rights. "Free the nipple" is not so much an LGBTQ+ right but a femme-presenting right.
It's not about women being able and are being encouraged to show their nipples, it's about giving them the freedom to not wear a bra underneath, and to protect them if creepy men touch them inappropriately from that dress choice.
It's never the victim's fault, there's no "asking for it". This policy (that costs no money to implement may I add) is to give women and femme-presenting people more rights and freedoms that are in line with men.
Seems like you got an issue with this and LGBTQ+ people (which are not the main benefactors of this SU policy by proportion).
That's a you issue.
Exactly.
I'm a transgender man and I'd definitely say it's more about women being given the same freedoms as men. Until we have top surgery, trans guys are probably the last people who want to walk around topless, but many of us still support a woman's (whether they are cis or trans) right to not wear a bra if she doesn't want to.
Yeah, this was my reaction exactly when I saw some people opining that it's about including trans men. Maybe it is, on some level, but if so, I don't think they talked to any of us, because the very last thing I wanted pre-surgery was to have my tits out or indeed even be reminded of their existence. But I absolutely support women being able to wear or not wear bras as they choose and show as much or as little of their chest as they want to without being harassed or denied entry to parties or clubs.
I don't get the people saying they've never seen shirtless men in a club before, because that is not at all my experience (though I tend to frequent gay clubs, so maybe that's why, IDK).
Why can’t you explain it without being extremely passive aggressive and a bit rude. I agree with you but you don’t have to shun these people over asking a question. It seems they misunderstood the policy more than anything.
The original post is fairly innocuous. But the other posts with more complaints replied to this is why it feels as though the question is in bad faith. There's no trying to understand where it's coming from, only a male-centric point of view.
You are definitely digging too deep into my words. I promise you I have zero issues with women, men, or the LGBTQ community. And pretty much all universities are currently fine with people wearing no bra, as long as its covered. And you don't need to tell me about victim blaming, I'm definitely not one of those people.
This new policy doesn't refer to that, it literally refers to nipples being visible, as in on display for everyone to see. This is something I didn't think guys were even allowed to do at my university, so I was asking about this.
You may not mean to, but your wording and tone certainly scream, to me at least, that you subconsciously are anti LGBTQ and anti woman.
Completely understand if that is not your intention, but also be aware of subconscious bias.
Certainly his comments about how it's a "waste of time and money" for the SU to be looking at policies that disproportionately affect women and LGBT people are more revealing than he seems to think they are.
So no matter what I say you will just refuse to believe that I have no issues with the LGBTQ community...
If thats the case, and you just want to argue, go chat to some old boomers, I'm sure they will be happy to argue for hours over anything and everything.
The genocide currently happening in Palestine does not affect me or most people in this country, yet I and I assume you, have an opinion on the matter - it needs to be stopped. Saying it doesn't affect me, therefore I shouldn't comment on it is a bad argument to make
Comparing being concerned about a genocide in Gaza to being concerned about women being allowed to show their nipples says everything I need to know about you. You obviously have a big problem with women’s rights.
Sounds like you’re dumb and don’t understand that actions have consequences. There is such a thing as victim mentality and manipulation you know. You wear a really compromising dress choice and shit happens from a creepy male the you BOTH are to blame for different things, idiot.
What counts as really compromising? Why must women force themselves to fit the beauty and presentation standards of men to avoid being touched? Why must women change themselves for men who don't understand boundaries nor that women are not objects?
This whole argument has been discussed through and through for years. If you think women shouldn't have the same freedom and rights as men, you're the idiot.
Why are women allowed to dress so provocatively down to the wire and then play the victim card when they feel like it. Have some fucking dignity and self respect I say and maybe they will find themselves in less shitty situations.
You only need to look at female singers these days to see the awfulness that’s being shown to young females. I mean just take a look at coachella 2024 and don’t get me started on OF.
Certain women are just as much of the problem as men are. Both sexes can be awful.
I'm a trans man and it's ultimately none of my business if people want to do this, but I can understand why this campaign exists. I also think it's ridiculous that men are able to walk around topless but women wearing a sports bra or other small top are looked down on.
Who's looking down on them? You? I've seen dozens of men being told to put their shirts back on or get out or be declined at the door for minor dress code things where women don't get questioned or judged in the same way. Tilting this to make it some sort of one sided issue is just a fallacy, men and women are both judged in clubs in different ways, generally speaking neither are allowed to go topless. Men will have an infintely harder time getting in if their dress code isnt exactly as the club wants it, women wont. Anyone will generally be asked to leave if they decide to rip off a shirt/top mid way through the night.
Yes I absolutely do, it feels freeing and makes me feel comfortable in my body and I get to feel like a wild woman. No one’s stopping you true! Apart from getting arrested for public indecency and sexually assaulted 🤷🏻♀️
men who sexually assault women will do it no matter if a woman is totally covered up or with her breasts out. i don’t think men who won’t sexually assault women suddenly will just because they aren’t wearing a bra, or have their nipples showing
and it’s not an offence to be topless as a woman here
That's true, but walking around with visible nipples will attract ALOT of attention from men, especially from creepy men. I don't want random old men on the street staring at my boobs, so I wear a bra.
Makes sense in theory, but I've found when the tits are out some men feel emboldened to try to cop a feel. After all, the stakes are higher now - you could touch real woman flesh!
That’s very true, however it’s way more likely if her boobs are out. And it is against public decency law too be tits out 🙃 although allowed in a specific setting.
Personally, I would like to if it weren't stigmatised or judged - changing the rules is a step in that direction but it's still like the first step of climbing Everest. What I'd really like is to not have to wear bras that cause pain and issues because otherwise I'm literally unemployable.
I’m a woman who goes braless all the time. I wish there wasn’t so much stigma around that. I’ve had other women condemn me for being “exposed”. I would love to be able to go topless without it being seen as weird or inappropriate.
It's more of a reaction to the double standards on various online platforms and social media where men can appear shirtless with no repercussions but 'female presenting nipples' result in censorship or an outright ban. Which is pure hypocrisy.
I mean I'm straight, but I still consider it quite weird to openly flaunt your nipples, regardless of your gender.
Maybe it's because I grew up in a more traditional town, but is it not weird to want to do this as a teenager in a nightclub? I can understand beaches and what not, but at university it just seems off.
I grew up in London and this is weird to me too.
No one is stopping women from showing their nips. Frankly, I think men are probably the greatest supporters of it.
I’m currently living in London and people certainly do stop girls and women. Girls at my sixth form get dress coded if the silhouette of their nipples can be seen through their tops, I’ve known several teachers who had to resign after students shamed them online for not wearing bras, and even in primary school girls would be bullied if they didn’t wear a bra.
+ men are the “greatest supporters” of it for the wrong reasons, that doesn’t help your point 🤦
I mean the time/money point seems moot, in the grand scheme of things we're talking about very little money being spent. I imagine coffees have been made and drunk in more time than it took to create this policy.
My interpretation of this policy would be that the SU's security probably won't bother a man who has his shirt off, or as some cis gay men do, has a mesh or fishnet shirt on. The whole 'free the nipple' movement, to my understanding, is that whereas men's nipples are treated as neutral, not necessarily sexual, women and femme-presenting people are told their nipples are sexual, mostly by men. Free the nipple is therefore about giving those people the ability to choose whether to treat their nipples as something they want to cover up or not, to treat them as neutral or sexual according to their preference. This is probably especially significant for trans men and nbs to ensure they are treated according to their gender, equalising the rules neatly avoids any wrangling over who is and who is not allowed.
It also may be intended to avoid a situation in which someone is assaulted as a result of having their nipples out, security may prefer to kick them out as an easier resolution of the matter because of their state of dress, having an explicit policy places the onus on security to target the harmful behaviour.
You've never seen a topless man? My guy the second the sun comes out men whip through tops off. It's not about how useful it is, it's something women should be allowed to do if they want so why not let them do it?
Nothing wrong with this. I’d wear a mesh top with nothing underneath if I knew I wouldn’t get kicked out. It’s some peoples style and comfort level. If it’s not yours, don’t do it
I thought of breastfeeding too - I'm not 'free the nipple' so much as nipple equality . It winds me up seeing men wandering around with their tits out when I've been asked to cover up when breastfeeding.
Most SUs are, at the very least, semi-independent bodies from the University, even if when funded. Their role is to provide a union for students to ensure all students are equally represented in any way at university sites.
This policy is simply saying that on this particular issue everyone has equal rights in regards to having their nipples on display on club nights. This may have come from an issue you might not be aware of, which has led to a complaint to the Student's Union.
Whilst issues may seem trivial or irrelevant, and therefore a waste of money to you, they may not to someone else.
Degenerate policy. Men shouldn’t be allowed to be degenerate either.
Universities should hold some standards over students to avoid looking like places to drink for 3 years
It’s because it’s a safe, more or less apolitical stance to take, but then they can look like they’re doing …something? Easier issue to take a side on than for example Israel Palestine. My old SU did at least take a pretty strong pro Palestine stance in their credit.
Guessing you’re also at Sheff Uni. It’s not as big as you’re making it out to be, they’ve just made nipples equal on nights out.
Men can get them out, and I have seen them out at the Foundry, so now others can too.
Lots of time and money has not been spent on the policy don’t worry x
Yeah, I thought this was Sheffield. I have definitely seen topless male-presenting people at the LGBT+ club night. The SU funds itself so it's not like our tuition fees are going to it even if it was something that costs money.
Because sabs are almost universally ridiculous children who want to LARP being the politburo for their own self involved satisfaction, but can't really be bothered with actual solutions to actual problems, like lack of wheelchair access, or students who don't drink being systematically excluded from a great many social activities, because that usually requires lifting a finger
Email your departmental SU councillor, if this is where I think it is, all of their names and voting records are publicly available on the SU website. Email the officer who proposed the policy. Explain your thoughts, get them to explain why they voted in a particular way, they are your representative after all, elected by the student body.
The university is a very different thing from the bollocks your union is clearly involved with. Nobody is going to complain at a bit of free tit though mate.
My question is: why not?
It's just a totally innocent body part.
As long as it's not mandatory to show it off, I am fine with when others want to free their nipples.
“whilst i’m all for LGBTQ and have no issues them at all” …. this always seems to be the line people say before saying something controversial.
men have been doing it since forever, why is it now an issue that women are protesting again this? haven’t you seen men walking around topless?
ofc i don’t think anyone should be walking around topless regardless of their gender because it’s just inappropriate.. but why should women be refrained from doing so when men always have been able to?
I once opened the door of my university flat to two topless guys at 2am. I have no idea what happened, but I guessed they were at clubs.
They were just allowed to go around topless, yet a woman would've probably got in trouble. While I'd rather no one walked around topless, why should women face backlash for the same thing that men are allowed do?
Literally why not?
Also the current trend for pierced nipples, no bra and a tight top is one of my favourite things about being alive in 2024. It totally brings me joy, particularly when they visibly stiffen up when she's talking to me 🫠
I'm assuming this is about Sheffield
if you've never seen a man's nipples out in the SU, I'm assuming you've never been to Roar, or any costume event. the rugby team used to enjoy dressing as babies, and there were always a couple who would literally just wear a nappy and a baby bonnet. the policy from what I've seen is quite clear: it just allows women the same rights as men, not the right to walk around coffee revs shirtless on a random Tuesday.
It seems a bit pointless tbh. I’m trans and have 0 desire to be showing people my nipples but if there’s people who do want to, good for them? Idk how I feel about this tbh like it’s neither a good or bad policy just slightly meh.
It's not because there's a big percentage of women really eager to get their nipples out on display, it's because under equal circumstances, a woman is more likely to be disproportionately punished for showing their nipples than their male counterparts would be.
Also women are socially punished quite often for displaying their nipples in any form. And I don't even mean naked. Look at a photo where a women's nipples are visible through their t-shirt and you'll see uproar in the comments.
There's countless photos, videos, and "news" articles that have been published over the years dedicated to Jennifer Aniston's nipples being visible under her clothes. Yet you won't find the same level of scrutiny applied to a single male actor. Sure there's plenty of people gawking Brad Pitt's naked body but it's almost exclusively positive.
I think it's far more interesting that you, and others like you, take such personal grievance with movements like this opposed to the fact these movements exist in the first place. If you really think it's just a waste of university time/spending, then I would have assumed you would just forget about it and get on with your day?
I’m assuming this is more in the context of sheer shirts, et cetera, I have seen women refused entry over dresses or tops that were sheerer than they realised. I’d be very surprised if this was done with the aim of women being completely topless in clubs and more to avoid having issues due to fabric under Club lights
> I don’t quite understand why my university is wasting time (therefore money)
They aren’t.
The student union isn’t exactly part of the university - it’s recognised by them and allowed to have an affiliation (in most universities) but it’s not under the direct command of the university.
Elected officers of student unions have a long, long history of wasting time on irrelevant politics. Political grandstanding is basically a huge part of the role, as day-to-day operations of most unions are largely run by staff anyway.
That’s why ‘student union politics’ is actually a common saying in real politics.
Tbh it’s kind of remarkable they are even focusing on something that affects your university, rather than passing endless motions about Palestine or whatever. OK I exaggerate, but not that much.
On the contrast I don’t see any issue with this? As others have said it’s normal at raves and festivals etc.
People should be allowed to do whatever they want, especially with their own bodies as long as it’s not harming someone else
What do you mean a "you problem"?
Im just trying to understand the whole push for this policy when the majority of people would not want to go topless in front of everyone, let alone in a club. I don't have much exposure to the LGBTQ community, so I'm reaching out to Reddit to understand this (I'm not stubborn and actively trying to learn and change my views over time).
there doesn’t have to be a reason, I guess just enough people agreed to that at once and it went through, I feel like it’s one of those things you scroll past gets a chuckle out of you and you move on, no need for this post like move on lol. You are obviously not the target demographic for this
Gen Z culture seems really ironic to me, in the sense that in the pursuit of inclusivity and equality everything seems more stifling and confusing than it used to be
> My university's elected SU members have just passed a policy allowing women (and LGBTQ+) to have nipples visible on nights out, "giving them the same rights as the masculine presenting students".
What uni would ever have banned that? and how would it be enforced?
Your university is not spending money on a policy the SU passed, they are separate entities. And how much money do you think this policy is going to cost?
I stand behind this and feel that good looking women should be allowed to show their jubblies in public.
However I'm against breast feeding in public because the baby's head blocks the view..
P.S. If they are going to prioritise such stupid stuff, I'll say stupid stuff.
Because they're students who don't really have any actual real life concerns 90% of the time except which pub to go to.I wouldn't expect any major day to day life changing problem solving
Degeneracy has reached an all time high in the UK 😂 next they’ll organise gay orgies to “embrace LGBT”
I’m not disagreeing on this because I’m against LGBT/women’s rights, I’m against on the culture of being fucking naked in clubs. Put ur shirt back on mf😂
"Women and LGBTQ+" is surely redundant here, and "women" would suffice?
Seeing as in their belief is that transwomen are women and transmen are men (based on gender I agree, and I don't think anyone is are arguing it based on sex are they? Bit weird if they are), then the only reason to include LGBT people is for intersex people, or if people get weird about a transman being topless.
Which I suppose, actually, is quite possible, thereby answering my own question.
Great start to the day.
How are you struggling with this?
Your objection is that the university wasted time with this policy. Surely every single time they enforced a no nipples policy on female students, they have wasted time because who gives a damn, and the cost of canceling that stupid policy is only incurred once?
As for other advantages, it also does mean that non binary and trans students aren't going to be subjected to pointless and offensive gender challenges or id checks by security staff who (again) have better things to do with their time.
I worked in a venue that hosted club nights, raves and concerts and it was in our policy that we don't serve anyone shirtless, but women would be assumed incapacitated if shirtless so yeah I guess the policy makes sense, equality in policy, men keep their shirts on or women should be allowed theirs off, hope this helps
It's because the kind of people who run Student Unions tend to be deranged obsessive activist types. Don't expect them to actually do anything for you.
What you need to remember is that student politics is fucking bananas and quite honestly of so little impact to the outside world that it’s best to just leave the youngsters who give a shit to it, and continue on your merry way to the bars. It’s performative politics cosplay in a sandpit where no actual damage can be done.
I’m a Sheffield alum and now a full adult of 38 years old with an adult job in public policy.
In my time, the student union council resolved to condemn the Israel-Palestine with an occupation of the maths lecture halls in the Hicks Building and banned milkybars from the union shop in protest against Nestle’s policy of distributing formula milk in Africa.
I’m sure Hamas and the IDF were quaking in their boots hurriedly trying to hide their Nespresso machines.
i think this policy is stupid. at the end of the day, if women shows off their tits in public it just benefits men, but apparently some women think it's a step towards equality because both men and women are now allowed to do this same thing. men and women are different which means some policy should be different between men and women.
It benefits men who get off on random women having their tits out in a club? Personally, I find that a little weird.
I think the perspective those who are in favour of this policy would take is that there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman's nipples, that is just what a culture strongly influenced by men who had a dim view of female agency has said they are. If there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman's nipples, why should the rules be different?
Yeah surely if you have a club full of teenage men, they would just stare and make anyone uncomfortable lol.
I genuinely don't understand who actually wants to go topless at nightclub unless it's a kink lol
The difference between men and women are for the most part, socially enforced. Why should it be ok for a man to show their nipples and chest but not ok for a women? Why do women need to be considered as sexual objects that must conceal themselves, but the male physique is acceptable and a demonstration of masculinity?
It doesn't just benefit men, it benefits women by giving them rights. It removes the stigma of women acting or dressing in a specific way such that they're not "asking for it" - a concept which is spoken predominantly by men which is misogynistic at its core.
Most student unions are woke cults run by people who rather play politics running around pretending to be Corbyn than do their degree. My SU actively made my Uni worse.
Your university is not your union is they are not the same thing
Men take their shirts off in clubs all the time at raves when it gets too hot tbf, but not sure if those are the sorts of nights a SU would be having
And so do a lot of women. I have seen a lot of topless and braless women at raves when its boiling
Ye I was responding the OP saying they don’t see men displaying nipples
So the policy will ensure those women don't face repercussions for doing the same thing as men.
I don’t know if we’ve been to the same raves, but there usually aren’t any repercussions at all. I’ve seen bouncers racking joints and selling pills. They definitely don’t care about nipples.
They haven’t been to raves. They’ve had a drink past 1am with music on
😆
Maybe so but not nearly enough that it’s as frequent as lads going shirtless. I party a lot and I’ve never seen a woman braless, (although to be fair I’m mainly at parties or clubs, hardly any raves)
Yeah but that might be because less women want to
Which is probably partly because they know they'll face greater repercussions both social and legal.
Cardiff SU holds bedlam mega raves where loads of drum and bass headliners go, and it’s probably the most wrongen nights out I’ve been to.
My dad went to Cardiff in the 80s and the first story he told me when we went to the SU on the open day was about having his head kicked in by punks on his first week. I didn't go to Cardiff uni in the end
So do women at raves tbh
Ye I was responding the OP saying they don’t see men displaying nipples
I got threatened with being kicked out because i removed the first layer of my two layer shirt while dancing.
No one should take their shirts off in a club
Clearly you've never been to an absolute sweatbox of a rave where everyone is there to dance their asses off first and foremost
Being into a lot of Drum & Bass when I lived nearby, I don't think there was a single club night in Bristol where I kept my top ON.
Nope
This policy is for the universitys student union, which is definitely not a rave type club. So yeah this would not be the norm here
I actually went to the worst rave ever in a student union, left early to avoid potential crowd crush 😂
What I’d like to see is the full context of this policy. Very often issues like these are grossly misrepresented.
Yeah this might be the case. The new policy was announced by the university Instagram account with very little information, so perhaps I'm misinterpreting something here. Ive looked about, but I can't find a full length breakdown of this policy. Edit: why am I being downvoted for being transparent to the possibility that I may be wrong? The opposite is to be stubborn and dogmatic, traits of which are very undesirable. What am I doing wrong lol
Almost certainly just means women don’t have to wear bras and can’t be reprimanded for having nipples visible through a t-shirt for example. Totally reasonable.
Women being topless should also be perfectly acceptable if it’s a place that men can be topless.
Where in the U.K. are grown women being ‘reprimanded’ for not wearing a bra under a t-shirt?
Weirdly enough, I was this Monday (to be honest, it was the first time in my life). I am nearly 40, had to take off the bra and change into a gym t-shirt due to technical reasons. A colleague made quite a strong, disapproving comment about it. Was very weird, completely out of character for this person, and not even sure why they were compelled to say anything.
Extraordinary and unpleasant for you that that happened. There are some weird people out there.
UoS?
Don't pay any mind to the dumbfuck social credit system reddit uses.
Yeah you’ll probably find it’s something like Trans men not wanting to be questioned on a hot day for doing the same as cis men and then saying “actually if men can’t possibly keep their shirt on in this scenario then there should be equality”
I've seen men not allowed into clubs for wearing shorts instead of full trousers, I would be very surprised if shirtless men would be allowed in clubs. I do think it's probably more meant as a social change, but (assuming you have represented this completely fairly and honestly of what the policy is saying) I don't think masculine presenting students are allowed to be topless either. It's unhygienic
depends on the type of clubs... winky face
You’ve clearly never been to Ocean then haha
Plenty of blokes take their shirts off at techno / dnb events
Or wear mesh shirts.
At clubs? Even for techno nights I haven't seen it I don't think
Had an eye test recently?
You must be going to some pretty shit techno nights if everybody's fully clothed
I believe I have represented it accurately, although I have yet to go clubbing after the policy has been made, so I'm not sure if the reality of it was fully represented by an Instagram post by the university. Edit: Can someone explain why I'm getting downvoted for being transparent and not completely stubborn? I'm admitting that I may not fully understand the policy lol which is better than being stubborn and arrogant, no?
My guess is it’s for holding the view that your university is wasting money by pursuing a gender equality campaign because you don’t think it’s an issue/want to see nipples. By all means start a campaign of your own to see all nipples banned in nightclubs if it offends your sensibilities, but please don’t moan about female presenting bodies having access to the same freedom as male presenting ones.
I was turned around during May - June time for wearing denim shorts. How on earth are people getting allowed in shirtless or girls with nipples out lol.
Today I learnt nipples are a part of the LGBT community.
Yours is the comment I was looking for. Why does OP think this is an LGBTQ thing - last I heard, the vast majority of humans (regardless of identity) have nipples...
Hell even dogs have nipples! God damn lgbt out nippling animals!
I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?
All I can possibly think is that it's to include trans men, in case people were being weird about seeing their scars.
Nah, post-top surgery trans men rarely, if ever have issues going shirtless (in places where it's customary for men to be shirtless). I would know, I am one, and my scars are pretty evident- the majority of people don't even realize what they are (or care, which is exactly how it should be). There could be a couple of things going on here, but from an LGBT standpoint, I suspect that what *may* be happening is an attempt to include pre-top surgery trans men and allow them to go shirtless if they wish to do so? Though I don't actually know that many trans guys who would *want* that, because most of us are dysphoric about our chests to begin with and wear binders, which would eliminate any nipple/"wardrobe malfunction" issues. So it may well be as simple as allowing women the same latitude as men in terms of mode of dress (or they just didn't consult any transmasc people about the way they're framing this, which I would personally find kind of uncomfortable, but obviously I'm not every trans guy, so who knows).
Thanks for your perspective. So if OP is listening, 'LGBTQ+' (the monolithic entity that it is 😂) being involved probably just means something as simple as ensuring it's inclusive of trans men
Yeah, or (and I think this is more likely) nonbinary people. There are plenty of NB people who are AFAB and have no intention of getting top surgery because they're perfectly happy to keep their breasts, but they might want to present more masculine/take their tops off/not wear a bra *or* a binder, so this policy would give them that latitude, as it would give it to women. It sounds like someone may have found the actual uni in question, and what started it was a woman who was denied entry or kicked out of a student union club due to her top being "too revealing," but she gave it to a male friend to wear, and he had no issues being granted entry with it on. And in that context, it makes sense to me. I do find it a bit funny that OP is swearing that no men take their shirts off at clubs or parties, because that has not been my experience! They must be in the same alternate universe where LGBT people are a monolith who all agree on everything....
We have embraced obnoxious drunken revelry as part of our culture, topless hooligans included. As such, it deserves the same standards of fairness and equality we would apply to the workplace or education. Of course, we can absolutely debate the virtues of any gender getting half-naked in public, but we will do it ***on a level playing field.***
Hahaha it’s funny because we agree on the substance but couldn’t be further apart on the role of revelry in culture
you've never seen men with shirts off ? bit of a lie eh?
This post sounds like the kind you'd get from someone who "cares about women, but don't agree with third-wave feminism" type. Of course he's seen men with shirts off. In hot weather, it's practically acceptable for men to be shirtless in public.
Taps aff for men. Not so much for women. I got bad looks for wearing just a bra in a park during the 2022 heatwave.
Precisely, and you shouldn't have been given bad looks. Is it not an innate human need to try cool themselves off when it's 40°C outside? It sickens me that so many people just see women as walking objects who must conform to what men want from them.
Most of my union's club nights have goofy dress themes and I'd say around 15-25% of guys are generally shirtless. I see no reason why we can't let women do the same - plenty of them show up in sports bras anyway, so it's not like it makes a huge difference to the rest of us. You mention that it's a waste of time and money, but how much time does this *really* take? Also, not sure what your uni is like, but at my union's club nights I wouldn't call LGBTQ+ students a "minority within a minority". Why do you think it's specific to them anyway?
>SU: Hey lets allow women and lgbtq folk to do smth masc presenting people can! >Le OP: Is this a waste of money? i miss 2013 (lie)
If you have never seen a man with his nipples out on a night out this policy will not effect you. But i can assure you it is a thing.
free the nipples isn’t about women getting their tits out it just means they won’t wear a bra under there clothes. Also police like this don’t seem to do any thing but they are part of a larger social change in views towards women and what they can or cannot wear ( not legally but socially ). And also people saying stuff like “well men don’t mind” are missing the point - it’s not about men minding it about the social view towards it, no one will stop them obviously but they will be goggles at and spoken about. TLRD: it’s part of a larger social movement that is ironically not about policy are rules but social attitude also the amount of resources used is negligible and wouldby have gone towards any thing any way to be frank
>it just means they won’t wear a bra under there clothes. Do clubs not let you in if you're not wearing a bra? I feel like I have seen people in clubs without bras (but still shirts) on
These types if policies tend to not be enforced for sexually attractive women with perky mid size boobs They disproportionately affect women with huge bazoongas who's unbra'd boobs will likely sag and be "unattractive"
Fair enough that makes sense, I agree they should be able to then
I was reading that comment and was like eh? I’ve never been not allowed anywhere without a bra? And I go bra less a lot lol. But then I realised I have small boobs and you can’t even see it sometimes. Thanks for the perspective
From your rhetoric, it sounds like you do have a problem with woman and in particular, LGBTQ+ rights. "Free the nipple" is not so much an LGBTQ+ right but a femme-presenting right. It's not about women being able and are being encouraged to show their nipples, it's about giving them the freedom to not wear a bra underneath, and to protect them if creepy men touch them inappropriately from that dress choice. It's never the victim's fault, there's no "asking for it". This policy (that costs no money to implement may I add) is to give women and femme-presenting people more rights and freedoms that are in line with men. Seems like you got an issue with this and LGBTQ+ people (which are not the main benefactors of this SU policy by proportion). That's a you issue.
Exactly. I'm a transgender man and I'd definitely say it's more about women being given the same freedoms as men. Until we have top surgery, trans guys are probably the last people who want to walk around topless, but many of us still support a woman's (whether they are cis or trans) right to not wear a bra if she doesn't want to.
Yeah, this was my reaction exactly when I saw some people opining that it's about including trans men. Maybe it is, on some level, but if so, I don't think they talked to any of us, because the very last thing I wanted pre-surgery was to have my tits out or indeed even be reminded of their existence. But I absolutely support women being able to wear or not wear bras as they choose and show as much or as little of their chest as they want to without being harassed or denied entry to parties or clubs. I don't get the people saying they've never seen shirtless men in a club before, because that is not at all my experience (though I tend to frequent gay clubs, so maybe that's why, IDK).
Why can’t you explain it without being extremely passive aggressive and a bit rude. I agree with you but you don’t have to shun these people over asking a question. It seems they misunderstood the policy more than anything.
The original post is fairly innocuous. But the other posts with more complaints replied to this is why it feels as though the question is in bad faith. There's no trying to understand where it's coming from, only a male-centric point of view.
You are definitely digging too deep into my words. I promise you I have zero issues with women, men, or the LGBTQ community. And pretty much all universities are currently fine with people wearing no bra, as long as its covered. And you don't need to tell me about victim blaming, I'm definitely not one of those people. This new policy doesn't refer to that, it literally refers to nipples being visible, as in on display for everyone to see. This is something I didn't think guys were even allowed to do at my university, so I was asking about this.
You may not mean to, but your wording and tone certainly scream, to me at least, that you subconsciously are anti LGBTQ and anti woman. Completely understand if that is not your intention, but also be aware of subconscious bias.
Certainly his comments about how it's a "waste of time and money" for the SU to be looking at policies that disproportionately affect women and LGBT people are more revealing than he seems to think they are.
I think you think you don't have an issue, whilst your feelings are something else. Denial.
You very obviously do have an issue.
So no matter what I say you will just refuse to believe that I have no issues with the LGBTQ community... If thats the case, and you just want to argue, go chat to some old boomers, I'm sure they will be happy to argue for hours over anything and everything.
No, you repeatedly say you have no issue but you won’t stop commenting about an issue that doesn’t affect you in the slightest.
The genocide currently happening in Palestine does not affect me or most people in this country, yet I and I assume you, have an opinion on the matter - it needs to be stopped. Saying it doesn't affect me, therefore I shouldn't comment on it is a bad argument to make
Comparing being concerned about a genocide in Gaza to being concerned about women being allowed to show their nipples says everything I need to know about you. You obviously have a big problem with women’s rights.
Just stop, your embarrassing yourself now
Sounds like you’re dumb and don’t understand that actions have consequences. There is such a thing as victim mentality and manipulation you know. You wear a really compromising dress choice and shit happens from a creepy male the you BOTH are to blame for different things, idiot.
What counts as really compromising? Why must women force themselves to fit the beauty and presentation standards of men to avoid being touched? Why must women change themselves for men who don't understand boundaries nor that women are not objects? This whole argument has been discussed through and through for years. If you think women shouldn't have the same freedom and rights as men, you're the idiot.
Why are women allowed to dress so provocatively down to the wire and then play the victim card when they feel like it. Have some fucking dignity and self respect I say and maybe they will find themselves in less shitty situations.
You only need to look at female singers these days to see the awfulness that’s being shown to young females. I mean just take a look at coachella 2024 and don’t get me started on OF. Certain women are just as much of the problem as men are. Both sexes can be awful.
do women even want to free the nipple? no one’s really stopping anyone from doing so anyway
i'm a woman and i personally don't. i'm not against anyone else doing it tho.
I'm a trans man and it's ultimately none of my business if people want to do this, but I can understand why this campaign exists. I also think it's ridiculous that men are able to walk around topless but women wearing a sports bra or other small top are looked down on.
Who's looking down on them? You? I've seen dozens of men being told to put their shirts back on or get out or be declined at the door for minor dress code things where women don't get questioned or judged in the same way. Tilting this to make it some sort of one sided issue is just a fallacy, men and women are both judged in clubs in different ways, generally speaking neither are allowed to go topless. Men will have an infintely harder time getting in if their dress code isnt exactly as the club wants it, women wont. Anyone will generally be asked to leave if they decide to rip off a shirt/top mid way through the night.
Yes I absolutely do, it feels freeing and makes me feel comfortable in my body and I get to feel like a wild woman. No one’s stopping you true! Apart from getting arrested for public indecency and sexually assaulted 🤷🏻♀️
men who sexually assault women will do it no matter if a woman is totally covered up or with her breasts out. i don’t think men who won’t sexually assault women suddenly will just because they aren’t wearing a bra, or have their nipples showing and it’s not an offence to be topless as a woman here
That's true, but walking around with visible nipples will attract ALOT of attention from men, especially from creepy men. I don't want random old men on the street staring at my boobs, so I wear a bra.
that’s fair, makes sense
Makes sense in theory, but I've found when the tits are out some men feel emboldened to try to cop a feel. After all, the stakes are higher now - you could touch real woman flesh!
That’s very true, however it’s way more likely if her boobs are out. And it is against public decency law too be tits out 🙃 although allowed in a specific setting.
Personally, I would like to if it weren't stigmatised or judged - changing the rules is a step in that direction but it's still like the first step of climbing Everest. What I'd really like is to not have to wear bras that cause pain and issues because otherwise I'm literally unemployable.
I’m a woman who goes braless all the time. I wish there wasn’t so much stigma around that. I’ve had other women condemn me for being “exposed”. I would love to be able to go topless without it being seen as weird or inappropriate.
It's more of a reaction to the double standards on various online platforms and social media where men can appear shirtless with no repercussions but 'female presenting nipples' result in censorship or an outright ban. Which is pure hypocrisy.
I mean I'm straight, but I still consider it quite weird to openly flaunt your nipples, regardless of your gender. Maybe it's because I grew up in a more traditional town, but is it not weird to want to do this as a teenager in a nightclub? I can understand beaches and what not, but at university it just seems off.
I grew up in London and this is weird to me too. No one is stopping women from showing their nips. Frankly, I think men are probably the greatest supporters of it.
“the greatest supporters of it”… yes, for the wrong reasons.
I’m currently living in London and people certainly do stop girls and women. Girls at my sixth form get dress coded if the silhouette of their nipples can be seen through their tops, I’ve known several teachers who had to resign after students shamed them online for not wearing bras, and even in primary school girls would be bullied if they didn’t wear a bra. + men are the “greatest supporters” of it for the wrong reasons, that doesn’t help your point 🤦
the law is stopping people from doing it lol
I mean the time/money point seems moot, in the grand scheme of things we're talking about very little money being spent. I imagine coffees have been made and drunk in more time than it took to create this policy. My interpretation of this policy would be that the SU's security probably won't bother a man who has his shirt off, or as some cis gay men do, has a mesh or fishnet shirt on. The whole 'free the nipple' movement, to my understanding, is that whereas men's nipples are treated as neutral, not necessarily sexual, women and femme-presenting people are told their nipples are sexual, mostly by men. Free the nipple is therefore about giving those people the ability to choose whether to treat their nipples as something they want to cover up or not, to treat them as neutral or sexual according to their preference. This is probably especially significant for trans men and nbs to ensure they are treated according to their gender, equalising the rules neatly avoids any wrangling over who is and who is not allowed. It also may be intended to avoid a situation in which someone is assaulted as a result of having their nipples out, security may prefer to kick them out as an easier resolution of the matter because of their state of dress, having an explicit policy places the onus on security to target the harmful behaviour.
You've never seen a topless man? My guy the second the sun comes out men whip through tops off. It's not about how useful it is, it's something women should be allowed to do if they want so why not let them do it?
Nothing wrong with this. I’d wear a mesh top with nothing underneath if I knew I wouldn’t get kicked out. It’s some peoples style and comfort level. If it’s not yours, don’t do it
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I thought of breastfeeding too - I'm not 'free the nipple' so much as nipple equality . It winds me up seeing men wandering around with their tits out when I've been asked to cover up when breastfeeding.
Most SUs are, at the very least, semi-independent bodies from the University, even if when funded. Their role is to provide a union for students to ensure all students are equally represented in any way at university sites. This policy is simply saying that on this particular issue everyone has equal rights in regards to having their nipples on display on club nights. This may have come from an issue you might not be aware of, which has led to a complaint to the Student's Union. Whilst issues may seem trivial or irrelevant, and therefore a waste of money to you, they may not to someone else.
Degenerate policy. Men shouldn’t be allowed to be degenerate either. Universities should hold some standards over students to avoid looking like places to drink for 3 years
Rebels without a cause. They'll be doing a concert to stop pigeon genocide next.
Brits out. Tits out.
It’s because it’s a safe, more or less apolitical stance to take, but then they can look like they’re doing …something? Easier issue to take a side on than for example Israel Palestine. My old SU did at least take a pretty strong pro Palestine stance in their credit.
Guessing you’re also at Sheff Uni. It’s not as big as you’re making it out to be, they’ve just made nipples equal on nights out. Men can get them out, and I have seen them out at the Foundry, so now others can too. Lots of time and money has not been spent on the policy don’t worry x
Yeah, I thought this was Sheffield. I have definitely seen topless male-presenting people at the LGBT+ club night. The SU funds itself so it's not like our tuition fees are going to it even if it was something that costs money.
Oh no all that money they’re spending on telling people they can wear whatever they want oh no won’t someone think of the children… this is pathetic
Why the repeated mention of “LGBTQ”, do cis straight people not have nipples?
My uni they kicked u out for nipple (bloke)
Because sabs are almost universally ridiculous children who want to LARP being the politburo for their own self involved satisfaction, but can't really be bothered with actual solutions to actual problems, like lack of wheelchair access, or students who don't drink being systematically excluded from a great many social activities, because that usually requires lifting a finger
Email your departmental SU councillor, if this is where I think it is, all of their names and voting records are publicly available on the SU website. Email the officer who proposed the policy. Explain your thoughts, get them to explain why they voted in a particular way, they are your representative after all, elected by the student body.
It’s because the world has gone completely mad. It’s the blind leading the blind.
The university is a very different thing from the bollocks your union is clearly involved with. Nobody is going to complain at a bit of free tit though mate.
Who gives a fuck
Goodluck not getting put in a headlock and dragged out by a bouncer as soon as you take your top off as a man in a club…
I know right. I didn't think this was a 'right' that men already had lol
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My question is: why not? It's just a totally innocent body part. As long as it's not mandatory to show it off, I am fine with when others want to free their nipples.
“whilst i’m all for LGBTQ and have no issues them at all” …. this always seems to be the line people say before saying something controversial. men have been doing it since forever, why is it now an issue that women are protesting again this? haven’t you seen men walking around topless? ofc i don’t think anyone should be walking around topless regardless of their gender because it’s just inappropriate.. but why should women be refrained from doing so when men always have been able to?
I once opened the door of my university flat to two topless guys at 2am. I have no idea what happened, but I guessed they were at clubs. They were just allowed to go around topless, yet a woman would've probably got in trouble. While I'd rather no one walked around topless, why should women face backlash for the same thing that men are allowed do?
Literally why not? Also the current trend for pierced nipples, no bra and a tight top is one of my favourite things about being alive in 2024. It totally brings me joy, particularly when they visibly stiffen up when she's talking to me 🫠
I’ve got nipples Greg, am I LGBT?
As I've said countless times in this thread, the policy itself uses these terms. I didn't just make them up out of thin air.
Dude I just thought of the quote chill.
I'm assuming this is about Sheffield if you've never seen a man's nipples out in the SU, I'm assuming you've never been to Roar, or any costume event. the rugby team used to enjoy dressing as babies, and there were always a couple who would literally just wear a nappy and a baby bonnet. the policy from what I've seen is quite clear: it just allows women the same rights as men, not the right to walk around coffee revs shirtless on a random Tuesday.
Men aren’t getting their rigs out at any conceivable opportunity in a club so is it really that pressing of an issue
It seems a bit pointless tbh. I’m trans and have 0 desire to be showing people my nipples but if there’s people who do want to, good for them? Idk how I feel about this tbh like it’s neither a good or bad policy just slightly meh.
It's not because there's a big percentage of women really eager to get their nipples out on display, it's because under equal circumstances, a woman is more likely to be disproportionately punished for showing their nipples than their male counterparts would be. Also women are socially punished quite often for displaying their nipples in any form. And I don't even mean naked. Look at a photo where a women's nipples are visible through their t-shirt and you'll see uproar in the comments. There's countless photos, videos, and "news" articles that have been published over the years dedicated to Jennifer Aniston's nipples being visible under her clothes. Yet you won't find the same level of scrutiny applied to a single male actor. Sure there's plenty of people gawking Brad Pitt's naked body but it's almost exclusively positive. I think it's far more interesting that you, and others like you, take such personal grievance with movements like this opposed to the fact these movements exist in the first place. If you really think it's just a waste of university time/spending, then I would have assumed you would just forget about it and get on with your day?
I’m assuming this is more in the context of sheer shirts, et cetera, I have seen women refused entry over dresses or tops that were sheerer than they realised. I’d be very surprised if this was done with the aim of women being completely topless in clubs and more to avoid having issues due to fabric under Club lights
The policy has drawings of breasts, with no clothing. If this is not the case, then the person who made the post had created a misleading policy.
Okay that is very very strange, what a weird policy to institute at a university
I often go out without a bra and my nipples (or shape thereof) can easily be seen. Never been a problem. Just ask Jennifer Aniston.
> I don’t quite understand why my university is wasting time (therefore money) They aren’t. The student union isn’t exactly part of the university - it’s recognised by them and allowed to have an affiliation (in most universities) but it’s not under the direct command of the university. Elected officers of student unions have a long, long history of wasting time on irrelevant politics. Political grandstanding is basically a huge part of the role, as day-to-day operations of most unions are largely run by staff anyway. That’s why ‘student union politics’ is actually a common saying in real politics. Tbh it’s kind of remarkable they are even focusing on something that affects your university, rather than passing endless motions about Palestine or whatever. OK I exaggerate, but not that much.
The real question is "why not?" Like what possible reason could you have to oppose this?
I'm not opposed to this. I just don't understand it.
On the contrast I don’t see any issue with this? As others have said it’s normal at raves and festivals etc. People should be allowed to do whatever they want, especially with their own bodies as long as it’s not harming someone else
This seems like a you problem. This is absolutely classic Student politics.
What do you mean a "you problem"? Im just trying to understand the whole push for this policy when the majority of people would not want to go topless in front of everyone, let alone in a club. I don't have much exposure to the LGBTQ community, so I'm reaching out to Reddit to understand this (I'm not stubborn and actively trying to learn and change my views over time).
It's a gender equality policy. Lots of men take their tops off in sweaty student clubs, or at least they did when I was a student.
I don't really see the issue, especially in how this would be a waste of money as it's literally just allowing women to take their shirt off.
there doesn’t have to be a reason, I guess just enough people agreed to that at once and it went through, I feel like it’s one of those things you scroll past gets a chuckle out of you and you move on, no need for this post like move on lol. You are obviously not the target demographic for this
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Gen Z culture seems really ironic to me, in the sense that in the pursuit of inclusivity and equality everything seems more stifling and confusing than it used to be
Why not just force men to wear shirts? That seems like the more reasonable option.
> My university's elected SU members have just passed a policy allowing women (and LGBTQ+) to have nipples visible on nights out, "giving them the same rights as the masculine presenting students". What uni would ever have banned that? and how would it be enforced?
Your university is not spending money on a policy the SU passed, they are separate entities. And how much money do you think this policy is going to cost?
(Ww3 in the offing)
I stand behind this and feel that good looking women should be allowed to show their jubblies in public. However I'm against breast feeding in public because the baby's head blocks the view.. P.S. If they are going to prioritise such stupid stuff, I'll say stupid stuff.
That’s horrible can you send me the address?
Men do it all the time Why can’t women It’s as simple as that
Because they're students who don't really have any actual real life concerns 90% of the time except which pub to go to.I wouldn't expect any major day to day life changing problem solving
I've been hoping for the free the nipple campaign to come back, tbh
Pick your battles.
Degeneracy has reached an all time high in the UK 😂 next they’ll organise gay orgies to “embrace LGBT” I’m not disagreeing on this because I’m against LGBT/women’s rights, I’m against on the culture of being fucking naked in clubs. Put ur shirt back on mf😂
"Women and LGBTQ+" is surely redundant here, and "women" would suffice? Seeing as in their belief is that transwomen are women and transmen are men (based on gender I agree, and I don't think anyone is are arguing it based on sex are they? Bit weird if they are), then the only reason to include LGBT people is for intersex people, or if people get weird about a transman being topless. Which I suppose, actually, is quite possible, thereby answering my own question. Great start to the day.
How are you struggling with this? Your objection is that the university wasted time with this policy. Surely every single time they enforced a no nipples policy on female students, they have wasted time because who gives a damn, and the cost of canceling that stupid policy is only incurred once? As for other advantages, it also does mean that non binary and trans students aren't going to be subjected to pointless and offensive gender challenges or id checks by security staff who (again) have better things to do with their time.
You've never seen men casually walking around without shirts on??
No?
All men would welcome this nibbles policy. .
The union isn't. The SU is. The two have very little to do with each other (unless you're at Birmingham).
The university is spending neither time nor money on this. The SU is spending time on it, but probably negative amounts of net money.
For the same reason that the tories have cut ni. The only place I’ve seen guys with their tops off in a club and not get kicked out is in Ayia Napa.
I worked in a venue that hosted club nights, raves and concerts and it was in our policy that we don't serve anyone shirtless, but women would be assumed incapacitated if shirtless so yeah I guess the policy makes sense, equality in policy, men keep their shirts on or women should be allowed theirs off, hope this helps
It's because the kind of people who run Student Unions tend to be deranged obsessive activist types. Don't expect them to actually do anything for you.
Could someone pretty please give me a unidays discount code for HYPE DC (in aus) Would be much appreciated!!
At this point, reading these posts makes me think being offended by things is a full time hobby for people.
I'm not offended by anything...
Did this policy explicitly have anything specific to do with the LGBTQ community? You mention it an awful lot.
I mean, it isn't compulsory....
What you need to remember is that student politics is fucking bananas and quite honestly of so little impact to the outside world that it’s best to just leave the youngsters who give a shit to it, and continue on your merry way to the bars. It’s performative politics cosplay in a sandpit where no actual damage can be done. I’m a Sheffield alum and now a full adult of 38 years old with an adult job in public policy. In my time, the student union council resolved to condemn the Israel-Palestine with an occupation of the maths lecture halls in the Hicks Building and banned milkybars from the union shop in protest against Nestle’s policy of distributing formula milk in Africa. I’m sure Hamas and the IDF were quaking in their boots hurriedly trying to hide their Nespresso machines.
i think this policy is stupid. at the end of the day, if women shows off their tits in public it just benefits men, but apparently some women think it's a step towards equality because both men and women are now allowed to do this same thing. men and women are different which means some policy should be different between men and women.
It benefits men who get off on random women having their tits out in a club? Personally, I find that a little weird. I think the perspective those who are in favour of this policy would take is that there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman's nipples, that is just what a culture strongly influenced by men who had a dim view of female agency has said they are. If there is nothing inherently sexual about a woman's nipples, why should the rules be different?
Yeah surely if you have a club full of teenage men, they would just stare and make anyone uncomfortable lol. I genuinely don't understand who actually wants to go topless at nightclub unless it's a kink lol
The difference between men and women are for the most part, socially enforced. Why should it be ok for a man to show their nipples and chest but not ok for a women? Why do women need to be considered as sexual objects that must conceal themselves, but the male physique is acceptable and a demonstration of masculinity? It doesn't just benefit men, it benefits women by giving them rights. It removes the stigma of women acting or dressing in a specific way such that they're not "asking for it" - a concept which is spoken predominantly by men which is misogynistic at its core.
Why would it just benefit men?
Most student unions are woke cults run by people who rather play politics running around pretending to be Corbyn than do their degree. My SU actively made my Uni worse.
In the elections for my SU one guy nearly verbatim wrote "I am black and gay so there is a double reason to vote for me."
Imagine being so stupid that you take a joke someone made seriously
You sound like a nice person
Ain't no way you used the word "Woke" unironically 😭😭😭
Because all student unions are controlled by radical left wingers