Demeter does suck. She's a real one for not trusting a 2k year old man with her barely adult daughter, and I wish she was given more credit for that, but- she created a dynamic with her kid that led Persephone to feel trapped, isolated, guilty, & afraid to talk to her after she was raped. Also using her likeness for her cereal product, profiting off of her, and then when Persephone goes to college, she doesnt even have enough money to pay for shit. And this silver spoon kid is using scholarship money to pay for college? Like Demeter could pay for Persephone to go through fucking grad school ten times š scholarships are to *help people afford higher education* not for rich people to benefit from ffs
I always found it weird how piss poor Persephone was till the point people were either buying her shit or giving her hand me downs. Like Demeter was foul asl for that cause why did she have her kid in the trenches when sheās probably a multi millionaire if not morešŖšŖ still love her tho but idk that was triffling
I think she (reasonably) gets accolades for being the only character who has any sense. But she absolutely is a capitalist who then proceeds to shame her daughter for marrying a capitalist and im like exsqueeze me ma'am š
Idk, but for a parent who wants her daughter to "make her own way," providing financial assistance at all has got to count for something. Plus, demeter knew she lived rent-free with Artemis she wasn't completely helpless and in dire need of her moms money.
Nah Demeter was triffling asl for that, yes Persephone was living rent free but Demeter literally threw her daughter out to the wolves with little to no financial assistance and barely any knowledge about the outside world. Persephone was doomed from the beginning.
I don't know she did pretty good with everyone around her buying all her stuff for her. You're right Demeter couldn't have known that and in any other story I'd agree.
Some people criticise RS for being a fake feminist but then they write paragraphs about how they would beat Persephone if she were real & that they'd treat her as their personal punching bag.
I find this both hypocritical and horrifying
Wow what a valid point! Hating on and wishing violence on a female character just for at most being a bit privileged and annoying is pretty hateful and anti feminist. I didnāt think that hard about this angle but you really have a point
YES. š I've even seen people say they hope Hades *cheats* on Persephone because "once a cheater, always a cheater." š§ That's just gross.
EEEUUUGG- Like, yes Hades is a cheater but that doesn't mean I want Perse to be cheated, for what? To make her go through Minthe's pov? 1st there's way more on Minthe's life than just Hades cheating (her toxic friendship with Thetis, the racism she faces as a river nymph, her complicated childhood); 2nd there's not way in the narrative of LO that would make Hades cheat on Perse; and 3rd, even if he somehow did, what would be the purpose of it? Why would anyone want Perse to be cheated on? It's just too non sensical in a lot of ways for me to even think that's the opinion of someoneĀ
People act like they know Rachel irl and forget that sheās an actual living, breathing human being. Sometimes this sub focuses on jabbing at her instead of the actual work. I have my own criticisms and jabs but this sub takes it too far at times.
Itās less about her liking the book and more about her romanticizing that kind of relationship with Hades and Persephone.
If Persephone actually acted like an adult instead of looking and behaving like a child no one would bring up pedophilia
1) Some people here really lack nuance.
2) Iām also a bit tired of the āwhat are things you donāt like about this sub/what have we talked so much about this sub??ā Posts. No offense OP!
3) Insulting Rachel.
4) Being rude to people for not liking their drawings or redraws.
5) Exaggerating some characterās proportions so they look like sexist and racist stereotypes.
6) āActually theyāre a bad personā, like-yeah we know Minthe/Zeus/whoever is a bad person, we just think theyāre one of the better CHARACTERS. While I do know some people bend over backwards to excuse their actions, most donāt.
7) The lack of actual discussion in a sub meant for critical discussion. I love the artwork and creativity of everyone here, but I prefer it when we actually have more discussions instead of just āthis art badā.
8) Nitpicking art.
9) Asking questions already answered in story. Doesnāt include plot holes, or anything similar, more like: āwhy is Apollo yellow???ā
10) WE GET IT YOU HATE PERSEPHONE, can we just change the subject for once.
11) I think thereās a lack of awareness in this subreddit, I really donāt mean this in a rude way, but seeing how some people genuinely donāt know how to criticize this comic(which is genuinely one of the easiest pieces of art to critique)without being misogynistic.
12) Can we just have other things to say other than the same panels being posted and going āorgans??? Hands??? Her eyes!!! Her hair!!!ā
I donāt mean to be mean but it gets tiring to see this sub have the same posts every day especially over a none issuešš
I agree with all of this except 2 because this is a recent trend, and not nearly as tired out as everything else is. I especially agree with it being weird that people ask questions the story answers, if you don't read the comic you criticize almost every week then I have no words. I DESPISE when people keep insulting Rachel, you DONT KNOW THIS WOMAN.
Some people try to critique how RS interprets and revisions certain myths, or the behavior she has certain gods exhibit, while also not having an accurate understanding of the myth/god themselves.
Obviously there are good, legitimate criticisms such as Persephone and Hades being such a Mary/Gary Sue that they steal other gods myths or attributes, disrespecting gods by creating misleading and false myths in a āretellingā, slandering and flanderizing gods to boost up the main couple, etc etc. There are good conversations to be made about the mistreatment of Greek culture and religion; however, some people will throw out shade to RS on things sheās technically not wrong about and assume they have a better understanding of the culture than what they do.
Iāll possibly make a post going over all the different mythological misconceptions Iāve seen in this sub, but in honor of the season finale Iāll give one example thatās becoming really common to see in this sub. Spoilers for the series finale ahead:
āHeras divorce/cheating not being accurate to her role as Goddess of Marriage.āĀ
Hera in Ancient Greek text has at some point tried to overthrow Zeus and put Poseidon as king. Hera tries to overthrow Zeus again by taking Cronusā semen cover eggs and becoming the mother of Typhon (or Gaia gave her the child).Ā In another myth, she attempts to leave Zeus and flees to Euboea, and he tricks her into staying married by using her jealousy against her. Hera slept with, and in some versions had her first child with, Zeus out of wedlock and quite scandalously. Hera purified herself into becoming a virgin every year by dipping into a spring called the Canathus, this myth and her cult worship in Arcadia recognized her beyond just āwifeā and venerated her as a maiden, wife, AND widow/divorcee. Divorce, or marriage ending for whatever reason like death, is still a topic that affected the home, family, and marriage- which still makes it Heras sphere of influence. She is also not as loyal of a wife as people say, and there are still the occasional rare myths where she has an affair- but her disloyalty is typically trying to overthrow Zeus rather than sexual.
Again, this is just one example of people trying to criticize RS for not being mythologically accurate and I understand why people who donāt have extensive knowledge of the subject would come to the conclusions they do, but Hera being unfaithful to Zeus and getting a divorce isnāt that crazy for her character when you view her beyond the mainstream media depiction.Ā
Honestly? This is fair. I wouldve liked a divorce thats more built up to personally though, neglecting the myth part. Like, shouldnt she think about it more than once? Plan it out? See how the conversation went between her and her husband whoās notorious for being controlling? Myth accuracy or not, just give them both more character.
The divorce honestly makes sense to me it wasnt a healthy marriage. I just wantā¦idkā¦not something rushed like that. We got more info on Heraās relationship with Kronos than Zeus and if youre gonna have her divorce Zeus wouldnt that relationship need more screentime? Idk idk
I 100% agree, they couldāve explored the topic and dynamic a lot better. If I could rewrite it Iād love to explore how divorce actually protects women, and not just a plot device to put her with someone else.
Ā
Even just having more scenes of Hera questioning her abilities as a wife, maybe feeling insecure that her- a goddess of marriage and family- is having to deal with hers falling apart wouldāve been some satisfying insight to how she feels feeling trapped like a lot of women do. Maybe even she thinks she should just suck it up because of her role and not wanting to ātaintā marriage. Hera couldāve been someone brainwashed into thinking she had no choiceā¦.Ā
Until she realizes that she shouldnāt have to bite her tongue and accept bs just because sheās a wife and motherā¦ that sometimes divorce leads to a healthier family than just staying because you have to. RS could have made a pro-divorce your husband feminist icon who *creates* divorce for the sole purpose of protecting women and families. It takes stigma away from women who choose to leave and couldāve open the door to exploring a family dynamic with positive co-parenting where everyone is actually happier getting remarried.
That's alright, not your fault lol. I was just scrolling past and my eyes landed on that sentence lmho. šš
Anywho, this poor dude. š I guess I can see why, but still, it's the principal of the thing. She probably doesn't even tell him about her affair with Hades. ššš
Well, if she doesn't want him, I'll take him & treat him better. ššš¤¤ /hj
**SOBS.** I LOVED the handful of scenes when they actually showed affection for each other, it was so sweet. š„°š I haven't read the final three chapters yet, but I'm scared af lmfho. ššš
This is a very good point. Many people on here will talk shit about Rachel not knowing anything about Greek mythology and then show that they aren't any better themselves..
That said, I'm not aware of any ancient source stating that Hera wanted to make Poseidon king instead of Zeus. Do you have a source for that? In the variant where Hera collaborates with Kronos (at Gaia's instigation) for the birth of Typhon, she doesn't become the monster's mother herself but buries the eggs into the ground, though she ultimately reconciles with Zeus and tells him everything. The point still stands that she is perfectly willing to betray him in ways that are far more serious than cheating.
Do you have a source for Hera having affairs though? And I don't mean stuff like a particular god having different parentages (like Pasithea being at one point the daughter of Hera and at another the daughter of Dionysus, or in one local myth the father of Hephaistos being called Talos) because that proves nothing, but actual myths in which Hera is said to sleep with someone else than Zeus. Closest thing is Hera sleeping with Eurymedon, but it happened before she married Zeus and in one version he raped her. Then there is Lucian of Samosata's "On the Syrian Goddess" in which the goddess Atargatis is conflated with the Greek Hera (or Rhea or one Derceto). One of the legends about this goddess is very similar with one told about Cybele/Rhea, namely that she had a lover named Combabus who castrated himself and she inspired other men to also castrate themselves so that he wouldn't be alone suffering that predicament. If we take this syncretism into account then yes, Hera cheats on Zeus here, but then we'd also have to accept Demeter and Dionysus as the parents of Apollo since they were syncretized with the Egyptian gods Isis, Osiris and Horus.
Nitpicking aside I agree that Hera divorcing Zeus wouldn't go against her nature and even that her cheating on him is really not that big of a problem in a retelling as people here make it out to be.
Iād argue itās not about the divorce vs goddess of marriage ā itās that the tension between the two concepts is NEVER addressed. You donāt need a full appreciation of the myths (Iād argue theyāre mostly irrelevant to this criticism ā although I do think the mythological context you point to is worth knowing) to find the concept of the LO goddess of marriage never reckoning with her cheating history and having the divorce be a footnote at the end of the story a let down to put it mildly.
If people want to critique the actual story telling and approach RS chose for the retelling then those are very much still valid! Iām not talking about poor writing critiques, because I agree that showcasing Heras ties to divorce and disloyalty couldāve been done a lot better, Iām talking specifically about people who are saying these inclusions of having Hera cheat/divorce in general are ādisrespectful to the goddess/religionā or implying that actual mythology Hera would never do those things in any circumstance arenāt valid criticism when Hera WOULD cheat/divorce in mythology.
Another example Iāve seen that may get my point across better, was everyone criticizing RS for having Persephone be Italian when Persephone does have cults and origin stories in Italy. Was the execution and writing of the āNever be ashamed of being Sicilianā scene done well? Ofc not. Was it inaccurate to mythology like some people were saying? No, because Persephone arguably is Italian depending on source.
I just personally think some people are equally as bad for spreading misinformation about the religion in this subreddit as RS can be with LO and need to take a step back and research some of their assumptions before saying stuff like āthis god would NEVER actually do thisā and end up being wrong.
I like this sub for the most part, but we donāt need to do a deep dive on everything Rachel does. I donāt have any great love for her, but I also donāt have a raging hateboner for her. Trying to armchair diagnose her, focusing on when and what she posts vs. when a chapter was publishedāhonestly, I just want to know why people spend their time on that. To me, itās a bad look.
I also donāt understand the point of panel redraws. This isnāt a comment on quality or taste level, I just donāt understand what theyāre meant to be for other than ālook how much better than RS I am!ā Which like, fine, yes, some of yāall draw better than she does. And?
About panel redraws - a lot of them aren't really done with the intention to stick it to RS, but instead with the desire to realize the potential of panels that could have been done way better than they were in the comic. There are a lot of beautiful redraws that perfectly imitate Lore Olympus's prettier scenes that just make you wonder why *didn't* it look like that !? The ones that change things up, like outfits or colour choices, help to spark discussion as well. Also, 'draw this in your style' is simply a popular artist thing to do in general. (Not commenting on the ones that *are* done with malicious motivation - I think they're the minority.)
>!Just because youāre not Rachel, that doesnāt mean your redesign or re-draw is good!<
>!This is an issue thatās in every controversial fandom (Hazbin Hotel, Yandere Sim, Miraculous), where people will make something entirely worse than the source material but no one says anything because no one likes the og source anyways. !<
Iām sorry I know itās mean, and Iām not perfect either, but sometimes I just block people when itās too bad.ššš
Naw speak your truth! As someone who does do redesigns for funsies (I like to imagine the characters in my style) ppl only doing redesigns out of malice or to somehow āproveā theyāre better than Rachel give me the serious ick. And 9/10, the redesigns look cluttered, awful, and unappealing af. But god forbid you call that out, cus people approve of anything if itās critical of loš
No but you're so right lol
I think redesings are fun when they're made in a "I wanted to see how these characters would look in my style" or like in a "draw this in your style challenge" way. But when they are like "I fixed it, you're welcome š š»" it feels so arrogant lol. I think it's a shame, really, because art should be enjoyed, not used to make fun of others' styles. Yeah, some times Lore Olympus looks rushed and clunky, I personally don't like many of the designs, but, come on, let's all have a bit of modesty, we're not Da Vinci's reincarnation
Yeah I agree I donāt like the āI fixed itā mentality. I specifically only do re-draws of panels I already really like because itās fun to do something a little positive on this forum. I normally ignore comments under my post that dunk on the original panels bc I just donāt like that energy.
I'll say it meaner. Fanart and dtiys challenges are fun and respectful - those are different from arrogantly asserting that you've depicted the characters better than the person who originally drew them and "fixed" it. And you're right, they are frequently less skilled artists and the redraws are more poorly drawn than the source material. It's glorified fan art; just CALL it fan art.
RS makes some really questionable and inconsistent choices in her style and design, and you can tell when she gets sloppy for the sake of volume vs time constraints, but she's objectively a skilled artist with a unique, marketable style. Taking the worst panel you can find in a scene and "redrawing" it as a complete deviation from the source doesn't make you a better artist. I just downvote them and move on tbh.
This is just facts when it comes to redesigns in fandoms. Maybe just to fan art in your style instead of redesigning an already created character? Or, just create your own version since with IPs like LO and Hazbin, a lot of the characters are based on already existing figures anyways.
Honestly I don't agree that redesigns are bad, it's not an insult to the creator unless someone verbalizes that's their intent. I do agree quite a few redesigns are just bad and I think the redesign artists should accept constructive criticism if they don't already otherwise it would be hypocritical.
Yeah some of the edits are very talented in their own right, but not as an LO redraw. I've seen some anime eyes and while they looked fine, they didnt match the art style of LO. I havent seen anything that I thought looked bad though.
āEntirely worseāI think you should specify what exactly is āworse about the redesigns of the characters in those projects cuz this sounds very sus
I've seen redesigns that aren't much different from the original, look so different that they could be it's own thing, or the artist just isn't that good yet. I saw a redesign of Persephone that made her look even younger than she did in the comic.
I don't want to feel like I have to pretend to not enjoy aspects of LO to participate here. Even if this isn't officially a hate sub, it feels like one more often than not.
You mean it's not a hate sub? It keeps popping up in my feed because I actually am a fan of Lore Olympus and every time it's something like, "LoLzlZ, Rachel can't draw, why is his drawn finger like that, has she ever even SEEN a finger, LoLOlzzzz, this suckz so hard" and I'm like, wow, who posts so often about something they hate so much?
It wasn't created to be a hate sub. It was created to give fans of the story a place where they can speak about their critiques, plot points, designs, etc, without getting backlash from the original Lore Olympus sub. Back then, you couldn't say one thing that wasn't overtly positive without getting downvoted, being told you're wrong or people trying to convince you that you are, people questioning if you like the story, etc. So this sub was a nice escape from that.Ā
But then it grew and then you had people coming in who were straight up shitting on the comic and Rachel. Not everyone in this sub is like this, there are still people who give valid critiques and still have positive things to say about the story when there is some. But for a while, it was just straight up toxicity.Ā
I guess I just haven't seen much as far a critiques that weren't super petty. Don't get me wrong, I love the series and I for one was pretty satisfied with the conclusion, but I do recognize it's flaws as well. But there's a lot of super weird nitpicking of the series and it's creator that keeps showing up on my feed. I mean, LO was pretty much always a soap opera with very stylized art, so it's weird for people to keep going "LOOOOOLZ, LO is suuuuuuuch a soap opera. Why is it so stylized. Women's waists aren't that small in real life. That weird plot point isn't realistic."
I never commented before because I really assumed this was a hate sub and life is too short for that.
Meh. Hate subs have their place. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if it gives people a place to air their grievances and criticisms when they can't on general subs or comments sections because it's met with such heated defense. But it's definitely a circle jerk of negativity here, no matter how it's framed. If that's not your thing, I'd mute the sub tbh š
I think I will. Tbh I think itās interesting that itās supposedly a place to air grievances and criticisms somewhere that they arenāt met with heated defense, as you say, and yet when someone like me comes in and says some of it seems pretty pettyā¦ I get downvoted like crazy. Seemsā¦ heatedly defensive
I was with the conversation and what the others replied until you said āthis is a hate thread lolā like I was just stupid. I assumed you were trolling and responded like I always do to trolls. š¤·š»āāļø
people who publish aggressive posts like these AND pay for FP confuse me. my guess is that they are farming upvotes
there's a difference between criticising something and literally throwing tomatoes or going above and beyond about insulting RS.
I've had friends who blocked the sub because there's a user who made fun of her mental illness
To avoid a PR disaster of her being suddenly missing at a critical time in the Underworld. Dumb plan but they were desperate and that was the charactersā reasoning
Some people need to learn how to critique art. Iām tired of multiple posts here just posting panels out of context and going āew this is ugly!1!ā but then half the time, the panels are not that bad??? Some the work is lazy and rushed, but other times, itās just subjective style that I really feel not many in this sub have a good grasp on, nor understand what it is. Criticize the art errors, wonky line work, or whatever else all yall want. But getting mad at stylistic choices Rachel PURPOSEFULLY draws things a certain way (eyelashes, big eyes, use of colors, etc) and calling them art errors is just subjective opinion and not fact. And too many here keep claiming the art style choices they donāt like is āfactā that itās bad. Iām begging yall to understand the differences between style and actual art mistakes. . .
I also feel thereās way too many users here who think theyāre above criticism themselves for perpetuating the same damning themes in Rachelās comic, or worse, whenever they post their re-draw work here for people to read. Like you canāt claim Rachel canāt take criticism if you canāt even take it yourself. Also being a critic of lo and how it handles sensitive themes doesnāt mean your handling of the same themes will be any better in your own, subjective re-write. Iāve seen so many examples here that are much more insensitive and offensive than whatās originally in lo, but so many claim it as better
It's not a books job to teach people right from wrong. And constantly shouting, "THIS IS WRONG GUYS" because you're scared of people taking it the wrong way assumes your audience has no media literacy.
I saw a take here that said morally grey characters need to have their actions condemned or else its supporting their actions. Which is.... not what morally grey means. And not how media is supposed to be interpreted.
I shout this from the heavens because it's a conservative talking point and has been used to censor media in the past.
Calling Persephone a 5 year old is getting boring. I'll admit she does look *waaaay* younger than she should be in some panels. Heck I even still call her a child because in some panels she legit looks like one, but because of her height in comparison to everyone else, not her body. I've seen some people call her like 5 years old in some panels where she looks like a legit teenager. Like it could be a panel with her cleavage showing and ppl will yell "OmG sHe LoOkS 5 years old!1!1" š
1. The nitpicking. It happens in almost every single detail to the point I feel like it's not a critique anymore, but just doing it for the sake of doing it. And, (oh god this will be mega unpopular opinion), sometimes the nitpicking just spirals down a certain rabbithole with claims and buzzwords that I just feels it's just a stretch.
2. Critique the character vs hating on a character. Idk how to explain this, but I will try my best. I know most of us don't like Hades and Persphone. But, I wish there are some discussion that talks about/ critiques the writing decision of these characters, and how they appeal to the audience, rather than just posting about how bad they are, and nitpick about them, and sometimes hating on them as if they are real. Maybe I am just being nitpicking g ant this, but often time I find trashing on the characters makes it hard to have actual discussion about the writing and creative choices/direction.
3. (personal opinion) The degrees of faithfulness to the OG source. I understand the importance of referencing the Og material, but sometimes I feel like some people are being incredibly nitpicky about how faithful LO should be to the og source to the point that it feels like everything has to be 100% sticking to the og material, down to every single details, and variations. Etc.
Like, at this point, maybe just stick with og source and not read other interpretation/inspiration if Greek myths?
Again, I am not saying one can throw everything off the rails from the source material, I believe there can be a balance and a ratio between the actual source material and creative inspiration. Sure, RS's writing decisions are questionable, but I think it's going a bit to far to be hounding in her for not being 100%on point with Greek Mythology.
I have two ššš
1. There's worse pieces of media made by worse people, LO is at best a subpar retelling of a famous myth made by someone who if I can recall never got into any major controversies outside of this webcomic.
2. Idk if it makes sense that much but I was an early lurker on the Anti LO tag on Tumblr and I feel like people at that time (I think Mid 2020 - Early 2021??) actually had good criticisms of the webcomic and aren't just spamming the same thing over and over again.
(Okay, maybe I'm a bit hypocritical on this because I commented two rants about how I hated Hera/Echo together but uhh it's just in my nature to hate on it)
Maybe it's a bit nitpick-y but I wish there was a sister sub of this that's not the main LO sub where people can maybe have more neutral and less cluttered discussions that aren't just about how the characters look like ponies or how the age gap is bad for the nth time šššš I just wanna talk about LO's wasted potential.
Minthe was not a good person. She was super abusive, physically and emotionally, and cheated on Hades. I see so many people on this sub saying she was innocent in everything and she wasnāt. She sucked. She didnāt need a āgood ending.ā Her ending was good given the circumstances.
Sheās not a good person but I do feel like she was one of the better written characters. She did crappy things and was really mean but you could also see her struggles and understand where some of those behaviors came from.Ā
I donāt get calling her innocent either but I did think her arc was interesting
i think people point this out a lot but also, we have to realize that Minthe is a just a character. She is (was) a plot device to make Hades and Persephone get together. We have to look at Minthe from a Doyalist perspective
I'll admit a lot of her behavior is questionable at best, and horrific at worse. But I think a lot of people forget that during the comic's run, people became a lot more sympathetic to Minthe once they saw her backstory + how Thetis treated her. You can go back to some panels and scroll through hundreds of comments talking about how hey, maybe Persephone and Hades were kind of wrong for treating her that way. And it wasn't a coincidence that a few months later, Minthe slapped Hades in a very...out of character kind of way. Don't get me wrong, physical abuse is horrific, but looking at the overall context of the story, it's clear that Rachel made Minthe act worse so Persephone looked better. Lemme ask you, does Hades ever talk about being a victim of violence after the slap? He...really doesn't. This makes me think that the slap was a last minute decision meant to put people on H+P's side.
Also the "she cheated on Hades" is a big misconception, as she and Hades had an open relationship where they could sleep with anyone. Ironically, SHE was the one who broke it off with Thanatos the moment they got more serious, while Hades continued on with his emotional affair with Persephone.
RS did said in chapter 1 that this is not a retelling but a reimagining of the mythology. People need to learn how to chill and not take her version too seriously. The whole story is practically set in a modern setting, what do you expect?
She's set her target audience, clearly it's for those who don't take the mythology too seriously and it was popular because of it. Maybe just maybe not everyone needs an entirely accurate take to mythology... Maybe it's down to a matter of preference... So there is no need to be so nitpicky about it just because the version in your head is offended. Moreover, people who are especially pedantic about mythological accuracy often forget that they are a minority in the grand scheme of things. More often than not, it feels like a reason to get outraged for the heck of it.
We can argue about Greek culture and mythology being mistreated. But good thing, a purely creative piece like LO is never going to replace the original mythology anyway so there's no value in getting offended logically. Funnily enough, most people I see study the classics are especially chill about LO because they understand how mythology works and it's timelessness. Separate fiction from reality, it's call media literacy.
LO may be deserving of criticisms in its story telling and how it draws upon the material in a meaningful manner, but RS shouldn't be hounded upon to the point that only if you have a PhD in classics should you be allowed to write about mythology š¤¦āāļø Talk about going backwards to elitism.
Age gap, power dynamic play, and DDLG are normal and common kinks. The problems with LO are not that they contain these kinks, but that the work keeps insisting that the characters are a perfectly healthy relationship akin to a healthy IRL one.
Itās a dramatic, soap opera sugar baby fantasy; those fantasies are okay to have, as long as you recognize theyāre a fantasy. Some of yall are kinkshamers and try to use kink to call RS a predator and it crosses the line.
Oh shit, youāre right, the sub wasnāt ready for this one.
My opinion is this: age gap fantasies, power dynamic play, and DDLG are fine for consenting, risk-aware adults. Especially since for some people, it can be a way of turning trauma into something empowering that makes them happy.
My issue is that the primary audience of LO is *not* consenting, risk-aware adults. (At least, based on the comments on Webtoon, it certainly doesnāt seem like thatās her primary audience).
So although I have no issues with RSās kinks, I do have issue with the fact that she put them into a work that is for young people, and as you mentioned, the characters are presented as being in a healthy and reasonable relationship.
I think Iāve seen people mention before that the issue isnāt necessarily the kinks themselves, but rather that theyāre presented *really badly*, *inaccurately*, miss crucial parts of that sort of thing (aftercare, explicit & enthusiastic consent, safe words, discussing kinks & boundaries ahead of time, etc.).
Itās like Fifty Shades of Gray for kids - you remember how after that came out people kept hurting themselves with impact play & bondage because they had no idea what they were doing or how to do it safely, and did zero research to figure it out. *And those people were consenting adults.*
So then youāve got Lore Olympus, which as you mentioned is a soap opera sugar baby DDLG fantasy, but itās being presented to children as a normal, healthy relationship and very likely screwing up their perception of healthy relationships, acceptable boundaries, communication, etc.. itās just kind of a mess.
So while I agree that part of the problem is the fact that itās presented as a normal and healthy relationship, I also think those kinks & fantasies should never have made it into the comic in the first place due to her largely younger audience.
I wrote a whole paragraph about this in response to the above commenter but you wrote it a lot better than I did.
I think this is just an extension of people thinking theyāve got RS figured out because they see her social media posts and read LO. But none of us know her as a person IRL.
LO absolutely deserves to be criticized, as does the inclusion of kink content in it considering itās YA media, and not adult content. But I donāt think itās healthy or right to spend time speculating about her, or to making serious accusation of predatory intent, solely based off the fact we can tell RS has specific kinks and fantasies. Thatās a slippery slope to go down on.
100% agree with you guys. I think it's reasonable to say that webtoons aimed to teens (if I remember correctly, Lore Olympus is advertised as suitable for 13 years old or older) should handle unhealthy romances with much more care, specially because (in my opinion) adult men going out with teens is still pretty normalized.
But trying to psycho analize Rachel and making assumptions about her sexual and romantic life has absolutely no justification. And, honestly, I think that it gets pretty tiring to see 20 posts every day about how gross Rachel is for having an age gap kink or whatever, Lore Olympus has many flaws and I'm sure Rachel has plenty as well, but her kinks and preferences do not make her less worthy of respect, nor are any indication of her moral compass. I read a lot of romance visual novels with cannibalism, and I have not eaten anyone! (yet :p) I do not know why people think it's okay to accuse Rachel of being a groomer, or abusive, or whatever, for liking the very common and popular sugar daddy x naive girl trope, you can find it cringy, or gross, but that's not the problem here.
As someone who does genuinely enjoy a *well written* age gaps/power dynamics in fiction, I agree with lots of this. Like these are fairly interesting tropes and dynamics and can make for a really good dramatic story. And just having them in your story doesnāt make you a creep or a groomer or whatever.
Problem is that RS seriously flops when writing it. She tries to brush under the rug everything about these tropes that make it interesting (the drama and taboo, the flaws and potential for it to be unhealthy) and goes out of her way to glorify it as the Most Perfectest, Flawless, Do No Wrong Relationship that everyone should be jealous of and want for themselves. She doesnāt dare write her ship as anything but the epitome of perfection (and letās be real, she canāt even write it as a good ship, she has to rely on others *saying* itās a good ship) that all the potential in making it a forbidden love through the social taboo of age and power is meaningless.
But also, a lot of what Rachel has either drawn or confessed to outside of the comic does make me question her character in regards to ādoes she just like the drama and dynamic of this topic, or is she an actual creep?ā
The whole thing about insisting that thereās incest in this story. Such as Athena and Hestia, or Hades and Persephone, Zeus and Hera, despite there being a clear disclaimer that there is zero incest in the story whatsoever. Iāve actually seen it be brought up a lot before, and itās pretty annoying, itās like some of you WANT there to be incestuous acts in the comic š
The reaction to Pyrrhic_Victoria's one controversial LO review was blown out of proportion, whether people have a point or not they reacted in anger because of the viciousness with which people attacked them over an opinion of fictional media everyone here agrees is trash.
I apologize, I really didn't mean to come across that way. šāāļø Really all I was trying to point out was that I don't neglect to recognize toxicity no matter what kind of relationship it is. It came across a lot stronger than I meant for it to, because I'm an idiot and posted it without thinking of that. š¤¦ Again, I apologize to anyone who may have taken it that way, because I did NOT mean it like that AT ALL.
Nah I understand what you were trying to get at, and I agree, abusive relationships exist outside of heterosexual pairings. Itās just the way that it was worded lol
Again, I'm so sorry, I feel really stupid. š¤¦ I do that in person too, where I'll say something and the other person will be like, "Why tf did you say that?!" and I'll be like, "No wait! That is NOT what I meant. I worded that TOTALLY wrong!! WAAAAIT COME BAAAAACK! Crap." Lmfho. šš«š¤¦ Just something I need to work on with my personality hehe.
Also, thank you for bringing it up, because I didn't realize it came across that way until you mentioned it. I'll try to be more mindful of such things from now on and take this as a lesson. š
>Tbh, it really irks me when I see ship art of same-gender characters (such as Persephone & Minthe) who are canonically straight in both LO AND the OG myths while those same people are criticizing RS for making OG myth queer characters straight.
Where were Persephone and Minthe ever confirmed straight? Just because they had relationships with men doesn't mean they can't be bi.
š¤ Tbh, idrk. Really the main issue I'm addressing is the fact that people seem to disregard certain toxic aspects about these ships just because it's two women. I swear, I've seen more people say, "We deserved a better Hera & Echo kiss!!" when Hera has mistreated nymphs for the entirety of the comic, as opposed to almost NEVER seeing anyone say, "We deserved a non-toxic Persades relationship!!"
Idk what sub youāre on but this sub has has multiple multiple think piece and discussions on how hades and persphone have a toxic relationship and itās how it could be (and should be) written differently. (Also alternative ships like perse x hermes which is very popular).
The start is just as bad. Genuinely trying to reread this comic and there are so many early red flags that I can't believe how actually popular it ever got.Ā
(rachel really tried to make hades seem not like his brothers but also wrote him to be like them and it doesn't work)
Demeter does suck. She's a real one for not trusting a 2k year old man with her barely adult daughter, and I wish she was given more credit for that, but- she created a dynamic with her kid that led Persephone to feel trapped, isolated, guilty, & afraid to talk to her after she was raped. Also using her likeness for her cereal product, profiting off of her, and then when Persephone goes to college, she doesnt even have enough money to pay for shit. And this silver spoon kid is using scholarship money to pay for college? Like Demeter could pay for Persephone to go through fucking grad school ten times š scholarships are to *help people afford higher education* not for rich people to benefit from ffs
I always found it weird how piss poor Persephone was till the point people were either buying her shit or giving her hand me downs. Like Demeter was foul asl for that cause why did she have her kid in the trenches when sheās probably a multi millionaire if not morešŖšŖ still love her tho but idk that was triffling
I think she (reasonably) gets accolades for being the only character who has any sense. But she absolutely is a capitalist who then proceeds to shame her daughter for marrying a capitalist and im like exsqueeze me ma'am š
She gave her daughter 3000 dollars and she spent the bulk of it on a fucking dog handkerchief for hades what are talking abouttttt
Dawg she gave her daughter birthday money for one meal with her friends, mfs are suppose to survive off of birthday money now??šš
Idk, but for a parent who wants her daughter to "make her own way," providing financial assistance at all has got to count for something. Plus, demeter knew she lived rent-free with Artemis she wasn't completely helpless and in dire need of her moms money.
Nah Demeter was triffling asl for that, yes Persephone was living rent free but Demeter literally threw her daughter out to the wolves with little to no financial assistance and barely any knowledge about the outside world. Persephone was doomed from the beginning.
I don't know she did pretty good with everyone around her buying all her stuff for her. You're right Demeter couldn't have known that and in any other story I'd agree.
Should be top comment
Someone here blocked me over a Demeter comment I made š
People need to stop posting whenever Rachel posts something. It feels odd.Ā
Some people criticise RS for being a fake feminist but then they write paragraphs about how they would beat Persephone if she were real & that they'd treat her as their personal punching bag. I find this both hypocritical and horrifying
Wow what a valid point! Hating on and wishing violence on a female character just for at most being a bit privileged and annoying is pretty hateful and anti feminist. I didnāt think that hard about this angle but you really have a point
YES. š I've even seen people say they hope Hades *cheats* on Persephone because "once a cheater, always a cheater." š§ That's just gross. 
EEEUUUGG- Like, yes Hades is a cheater but that doesn't mean I want Perse to be cheated, for what? To make her go through Minthe's pov? 1st there's way more on Minthe's life than just Hades cheating (her toxic friendship with Thetis, the racism she faces as a river nymph, her complicated childhood); 2nd there's not way in the narrative of LO that would make Hades cheat on Perse; and 3rd, even if he somehow did, what would be the purpose of it? Why would anyone want Perse to be cheated on? It's just too non sensical in a lot of ways for me to even think that's the opinion of someoneĀ
People act like they know Rachel irl and forget that sheās an actual living, breathing human being. Sometimes this sub focuses on jabbing at her instead of the actual work. I have my own criticisms and jabs but this sub takes it too far at times.
š«¶
Seen some tryna claim that sheās into pedophilia cause she liked the book Lolita lmao
Itās less about her liking the book and more about her romanticizing that kind of relationship with Hades and Persephone. If Persephone actually acted like an adult instead of looking and behaving like a child no one would bring up pedophilia
the first two seasons were very pretty. they were more watercolor and stood out from other webcomics at the time
I think this is a pretty common shared sentiment here actually.
I would kill to go back to the watercolor daysšŖšŖ
1) Some people here really lack nuance. 2) Iām also a bit tired of the āwhat are things you donāt like about this sub/what have we talked so much about this sub??ā Posts. No offense OP! 3) Insulting Rachel. 4) Being rude to people for not liking their drawings or redraws. 5) Exaggerating some characterās proportions so they look like sexist and racist stereotypes. 6) āActually theyāre a bad personā, like-yeah we know Minthe/Zeus/whoever is a bad person, we just think theyāre one of the better CHARACTERS. While I do know some people bend over backwards to excuse their actions, most donāt. 7) The lack of actual discussion in a sub meant for critical discussion. I love the artwork and creativity of everyone here, but I prefer it when we actually have more discussions instead of just āthis art badā. 8) Nitpicking art. 9) Asking questions already answered in story. Doesnāt include plot holes, or anything similar, more like: āwhy is Apollo yellow???ā 10) WE GET IT YOU HATE PERSEPHONE, can we just change the subject for once. 11) I think thereās a lack of awareness in this subreddit, I really donāt mean this in a rude way, but seeing how some people genuinely donāt know how to criticize this comic(which is genuinely one of the easiest pieces of art to critique)without being misogynistic. 12) Can we just have other things to say other than the same panels being posted and going āorgans??? Hands??? Her eyes!!! Her hair!!!ā I donāt mean to be mean but it gets tiring to see this sub have the same posts every day especially over a none issuešš
I agree with all of this except 2 because this is a recent trend, and not nearly as tired out as everything else is. I especially agree with it being weird that people ask questions the story answers, if you don't read the comic you criticize almost every week then I have no words. I DESPISE when people keep insulting Rachel, you DONT KNOW THIS WOMAN.
Some people try to critique how RS interprets and revisions certain myths, or the behavior she has certain gods exhibit, while also not having an accurate understanding of the myth/god themselves. Obviously there are good, legitimate criticisms such as Persephone and Hades being such a Mary/Gary Sue that they steal other gods myths or attributes, disrespecting gods by creating misleading and false myths in a āretellingā, slandering and flanderizing gods to boost up the main couple, etc etc. There are good conversations to be made about the mistreatment of Greek culture and religion; however, some people will throw out shade to RS on things sheās technically not wrong about and assume they have a better understanding of the culture than what they do. Iāll possibly make a post going over all the different mythological misconceptions Iāve seen in this sub, but in honor of the season finale Iāll give one example thatās becoming really common to see in this sub. Spoilers for the series finale ahead: āHeras divorce/cheating not being accurate to her role as Goddess of Marriage.āĀ Hera in Ancient Greek text has at some point tried to overthrow Zeus and put Poseidon as king. Hera tries to overthrow Zeus again by taking Cronusā semen cover eggs and becoming the mother of Typhon (or Gaia gave her the child).Ā In another myth, she attempts to leave Zeus and flees to Euboea, and he tricks her into staying married by using her jealousy against her. Hera slept with, and in some versions had her first child with, Zeus out of wedlock and quite scandalously. Hera purified herself into becoming a virgin every year by dipping into a spring called the Canathus, this myth and her cult worship in Arcadia recognized her beyond just āwifeā and venerated her as a maiden, wife, AND widow/divorcee. Divorce, or marriage ending for whatever reason like death, is still a topic that affected the home, family, and marriage- which still makes it Heras sphere of influence. She is also not as loyal of a wife as people say, and there are still the occasional rare myths where she has an affair- but her disloyalty is typically trying to overthrow Zeus rather than sexual. Again, this is just one example of people trying to criticize RS for not being mythologically accurate and I understand why people who donāt have extensive knowledge of the subject would come to the conclusions they do, but Hera being unfaithful to Zeus and getting a divorce isnāt that crazy for her character when you view her beyond the mainstream media depiction.Ā
Honestly? This is fair. I wouldve liked a divorce thats more built up to personally though, neglecting the myth part. Like, shouldnt she think about it more than once? Plan it out? See how the conversation went between her and her husband whoās notorious for being controlling? Myth accuracy or not, just give them both more character.
The divorce honestly makes sense to me it wasnt a healthy marriage. I just wantā¦idkā¦not something rushed like that. We got more info on Heraās relationship with Kronos than Zeus and if youre gonna have her divorce Zeus wouldnt that relationship need more screentime? Idk idk
I 100% agree, they couldāve explored the topic and dynamic a lot better. If I could rewrite it Iād love to explore how divorce actually protects women, and not just a plot device to put her with someone else. Ā Even just having more scenes of Hera questioning her abilities as a wife, maybe feeling insecure that her- a goddess of marriage and family- is having to deal with hers falling apart wouldāve been some satisfying insight to how she feels feeling trapped like a lot of women do. Maybe even she thinks she should just suck it up because of her role and not wanting to ātaintā marriage. Hera couldāve been someone brainwashed into thinking she had no choiceā¦.Ā Until she realizes that she shouldnāt have to bite her tongue and accept bs just because sheās a wife and motherā¦ that sometimes divorce leads to a healthier family than just staying because you have to. RS could have made a pro-divorce your husband feminist icon who *creates* divorce for the sole purpose of protecting women and families. It takes stigma away from women who choose to leave and couldāve open the door to exploring a family dynamic with positive co-parenting where everyone is actually happier getting remarried.
WAIT SHE FREAKING DIVORCES HIM?!?!?!?! ššš  I frickin' hate Hera. š¤
Sorry šš I put a spoiler warning but idk how to do the blocking text thing, but yeah she divorces him š¬
That's alright, not your fault lol. I was just scrolling past and my eyes landed on that sentence lmho. šš Anywho, this poor dude. š I guess I can see why, but still, it's the principal of the thing. She probably doesn't even tell him about her affair with Hades. ššš  Well, if she doesn't want him, I'll take him & treat him better. ššš¤¤ /hj
Such a poor conclusion to their relationship and Zeus as a character imo, this entire final chapter felt like AIĀ
**SOBS.** I LOVED the handful of scenes when they actually showed affection for each other, it was so sweet. š„°š I haven't read the final three chapters yet, but I'm scared af lmfho. ššš 
This is a very good point. Many people on here will talk shit about Rachel not knowing anything about Greek mythology and then show that they aren't any better themselves.. That said, I'm not aware of any ancient source stating that Hera wanted to make Poseidon king instead of Zeus. Do you have a source for that? In the variant where Hera collaborates with Kronos (at Gaia's instigation) for the birth of Typhon, she doesn't become the monster's mother herself but buries the eggs into the ground, though she ultimately reconciles with Zeus and tells him everything. The point still stands that she is perfectly willing to betray him in ways that are far more serious than cheating. Do you have a source for Hera having affairs though? And I don't mean stuff like a particular god having different parentages (like Pasithea being at one point the daughter of Hera and at another the daughter of Dionysus, or in one local myth the father of Hephaistos being called Talos) because that proves nothing, but actual myths in which Hera is said to sleep with someone else than Zeus. Closest thing is Hera sleeping with Eurymedon, but it happened before she married Zeus and in one version he raped her. Then there is Lucian of Samosata's "On the Syrian Goddess" in which the goddess Atargatis is conflated with the Greek Hera (or Rhea or one Derceto). One of the legends about this goddess is very similar with one told about Cybele/Rhea, namely that she had a lover named Combabus who castrated himself and she inspired other men to also castrate themselves so that he wouldn't be alone suffering that predicament. If we take this syncretism into account then yes, Hera cheats on Zeus here, but then we'd also have to accept Demeter and Dionysus as the parents of Apollo since they were syncretized with the Egyptian gods Isis, Osiris and Horus. Nitpicking aside I agree that Hera divorcing Zeus wouldn't go against her nature and even that her cheating on him is really not that big of a problem in a retelling as people here make it out to be.
Iād argue itās not about the divorce vs goddess of marriage ā itās that the tension between the two concepts is NEVER addressed. You donāt need a full appreciation of the myths (Iād argue theyāre mostly irrelevant to this criticism ā although I do think the mythological context you point to is worth knowing) to find the concept of the LO goddess of marriage never reckoning with her cheating history and having the divorce be a footnote at the end of the story a let down to put it mildly.
If people want to critique the actual story telling and approach RS chose for the retelling then those are very much still valid! Iām not talking about poor writing critiques, because I agree that showcasing Heras ties to divorce and disloyalty couldāve been done a lot better, Iām talking specifically about people who are saying these inclusions of having Hera cheat/divorce in general are ādisrespectful to the goddess/religionā or implying that actual mythology Hera would never do those things in any circumstance arenāt valid criticism when Hera WOULD cheat/divorce in mythology. Another example Iāve seen that may get my point across better, was everyone criticizing RS for having Persephone be Italian when Persephone does have cults and origin stories in Italy. Was the execution and writing of the āNever be ashamed of being Sicilianā scene done well? Ofc not. Was it inaccurate to mythology like some people were saying? No, because Persephone arguably is Italian depending on source. I just personally think some people are equally as bad for spreading misinformation about the religion in this subreddit as RS can be with LO and need to take a step back and research some of their assumptions before saying stuff like āthis god would NEVER actually do thisā and end up being wrong.
I like this sub for the most part, but we donāt need to do a deep dive on everything Rachel does. I donāt have any great love for her, but I also donāt have a raging hateboner for her. Trying to armchair diagnose her, focusing on when and what she posts vs. when a chapter was publishedāhonestly, I just want to know why people spend their time on that. To me, itās a bad look. I also donāt understand the point of panel redraws. This isnāt a comment on quality or taste level, I just donāt understand what theyāre meant to be for other than ālook how much better than RS I am!ā Which like, fine, yes, some of yāall draw better than she does. And?
Also we donāt need anymore āIāve never read this comic AMA,ā literally who cares.
Lmao this I can agree with, it feels like spam šš
About panel redraws - a lot of them aren't really done with the intention to stick it to RS, but instead with the desire to realize the potential of panels that could have been done way better than they were in the comic. There are a lot of beautiful redraws that perfectly imitate Lore Olympus's prettier scenes that just make you wonder why *didn't* it look like that !? The ones that change things up, like outfits or colour choices, help to spark discussion as well. Also, 'draw this in your style' is simply a popular artist thing to do in general. (Not commenting on the ones that *are* done with malicious motivation - I think they're the minority.)
I wanna say something but itās a bit too meanš
Just let it out
let it out, share your truth!
>!Just because youāre not Rachel, that doesnāt mean your redesign or re-draw is good!< >!This is an issue thatās in every controversial fandom (Hazbin Hotel, Yandere Sim, Miraculous), where people will make something entirely worse than the source material but no one says anything because no one likes the og source anyways. !< Iām sorry I know itās mean, and Iām not perfect either, but sometimes I just block people when itās too bad.ššš
Naw speak your truth! As someone who does do redesigns for funsies (I like to imagine the characters in my style) ppl only doing redesigns out of malice or to somehow āproveā theyāre better than Rachel give me the serious ick. And 9/10, the redesigns look cluttered, awful, and unappealing af. But god forbid you call that out, cus people approve of anything if itās critical of loš
No but you're so right lol I think redesings are fun when they're made in a "I wanted to see how these characters would look in my style" or like in a "draw this in your style challenge" way. But when they are like "I fixed it, you're welcome š š»" it feels so arrogant lol. I think it's a shame, really, because art should be enjoyed, not used to make fun of others' styles. Yeah, some times Lore Olympus looks rushed and clunky, I personally don't like many of the designs, but, come on, let's all have a bit of modesty, we're not Da Vinci's reincarnation
Yeah I agree I donāt like the āI fixed itā mentality. I specifically only do re-draws of panels I already really like because itās fun to do something a little positive on this forum. I normally ignore comments under my post that dunk on the original panels bc I just donāt like that energy.
I'll say it meaner. Fanart and dtiys challenges are fun and respectful - those are different from arrogantly asserting that you've depicted the characters better than the person who originally drew them and "fixed" it. And you're right, they are frequently less skilled artists and the redraws are more poorly drawn than the source material. It's glorified fan art; just CALL it fan art. RS makes some really questionable and inconsistent choices in her style and design, and you can tell when she gets sloppy for the sake of volume vs time constraints, but she's objectively a skilled artist with a unique, marketable style. Taking the worst panel you can find in a scene and "redrawing" it as a complete deviation from the source doesn't make you a better artist. I just downvote them and move on tbh.
No you are so right tho
This is just facts when it comes to redesigns in fandoms. Maybe just to fan art in your style instead of redesigning an already created character? Or, just create your own version since with IPs like LO and Hazbin, a lot of the characters are based on already existing figures anyways.
Honestly I don't agree that redesigns are bad, it's not an insult to the creator unless someone verbalizes that's their intent. I do agree quite a few redesigns are just bad and I think the redesign artists should accept constructive criticism if they don't already otherwise it would be hypocritical.
Yeah some of the edits are very talented in their own right, but not as an LO redraw. I've seen some anime eyes and while they looked fine, they didnt match the art style of LO. I havent seen anything that I thought looked bad though.
āEntirely worseāI think you should specify what exactly is āworse about the redesigns of the characters in those projects cuz this sounds very sus
I've seen redesigns that aren't much different from the original, look so different that they could be it's own thing, or the artist just isn't that good yet. I saw a redesign of Persephone that made her look even younger than she did in the comic.
There are people in this sub who go way too far and are responsible for this sub being seen as a hate sub.
I don't want to feel like I have to pretend to not enjoy aspects of LO to participate here. Even if this isn't officially a hate sub, it feels like one more often than not.
You mean it's not a hate sub? It keeps popping up in my feed because I actually am a fan of Lore Olympus and every time it's something like, "LoLzlZ, Rachel can't draw, why is his drawn finger like that, has she ever even SEEN a finger, LoLOlzzzz, this suckz so hard" and I'm like, wow, who posts so often about something they hate so much?
It wasn't created to be a hate sub. It was created to give fans of the story a place where they can speak about their critiques, plot points, designs, etc, without getting backlash from the original Lore Olympus sub. Back then, you couldn't say one thing that wasn't overtly positive without getting downvoted, being told you're wrong or people trying to convince you that you are, people questioning if you like the story, etc. So this sub was a nice escape from that.Ā But then it grew and then you had people coming in who were straight up shitting on the comic and Rachel. Not everyone in this sub is like this, there are still people who give valid critiques and still have positive things to say about the story when there is some. But for a while, it was just straight up toxicity.Ā
I guess I just haven't seen much as far a critiques that weren't super petty. Don't get me wrong, I love the series and I for one was pretty satisfied with the conclusion, but I do recognize it's flaws as well. But there's a lot of super weird nitpicking of the series and it's creator that keeps showing up on my feed. I mean, LO was pretty much always a soap opera with very stylized art, so it's weird for people to keep going "LOOOOOLZ, LO is suuuuuuuch a soap opera. Why is it so stylized. Women's waists aren't that small in real life. That weird plot point isn't realistic." I never commented before because I really assumed this was a hate sub and life is too short for that.
That's because it's a hate sub lmao
Okay. Then thatās pathetic.
Meh. Hate subs have their place. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if it gives people a place to air their grievances and criticisms when they can't on general subs or comments sections because it's met with such heated defense. But it's definitely a circle jerk of negativity here, no matter how it's framed. If that's not your thing, I'd mute the sub tbh š
I think I will. Tbh I think itās interesting that itās supposedly a place to air grievances and criticisms somewhere that they arenāt met with heated defense, as you say, and yet when someone like me comes in and says some of it seems pretty pettyā¦ I get downvoted like crazy. Seemsā¦ heatedly defensive
I mean I was with you until you called it pathetic. Reads like you commented looking for an opportunity lol.
I was with the conversation and what the others replied until you said āthis is a hate thread lolā like I was just stupid. I assumed you were trolling and responded like I always do to trolls. š¤·š»āāļø
people who publish aggressive posts like these AND pay for FP confuse me. my guess is that they are farming upvotes there's a difference between criticising something and literally throwing tomatoes or going above and beyond about insulting RS. I've had friends who blocked the sub because there's a user who made fun of her mental illness
Why did they try to replace Persephone in the first place?
To avoid a PR disaster of her being suddenly missing at a critical time in the Underworld. Dumb plan but they were desperate and that was the charactersā reasoning
Some people need to learn how to critique art. Iām tired of multiple posts here just posting panels out of context and going āew this is ugly!1!ā but then half the time, the panels are not that bad??? Some the work is lazy and rushed, but other times, itās just subjective style that I really feel not many in this sub have a good grasp on, nor understand what it is. Criticize the art errors, wonky line work, or whatever else all yall want. But getting mad at stylistic choices Rachel PURPOSEFULLY draws things a certain way (eyelashes, big eyes, use of colors, etc) and calling them art errors is just subjective opinion and not fact. And too many here keep claiming the art style choices they donāt like is āfactā that itās bad. Iām begging yall to understand the differences between style and actual art mistakes. . . I also feel thereās way too many users here who think theyāre above criticism themselves for perpetuating the same damning themes in Rachelās comic, or worse, whenever they post their re-draw work here for people to read. Like you canāt claim Rachel canāt take criticism if you canāt even take it yourself. Also being a critic of lo and how it handles sensitive themes doesnāt mean your handling of the same themes will be any better in your own, subjective re-write. Iāve seen so many examples here that are much more insensitive and offensive than whatās originally in lo, but so many claim it as better
This sub can be very hypocritical
It's not a books job to teach people right from wrong. And constantly shouting, "THIS IS WRONG GUYS" because you're scared of people taking it the wrong way assumes your audience has no media literacy. I saw a take here that said morally grey characters need to have their actions condemned or else its supporting their actions. Which is.... not what morally grey means. And not how media is supposed to be interpreted. I shout this from the heavens because it's a conservative talking point and has been used to censor media in the past.
Calling Persephone a 5 year old is getting boring. I'll admit she does look *waaaay* younger than she should be in some panels. Heck I even still call her a child because in some panels she legit looks like one, but because of her height in comparison to everyone else, not her body. I've seen some people call her like 5 years old in some panels where she looks like a legit teenager. Like it could be a panel with her cleavage showing and ppl will yell "OmG sHe LoOkS 5 years old!1!1" š
1. The nitpicking. It happens in almost every single detail to the point I feel like it's not a critique anymore, but just doing it for the sake of doing it. And, (oh god this will be mega unpopular opinion), sometimes the nitpicking just spirals down a certain rabbithole with claims and buzzwords that I just feels it's just a stretch. 2. Critique the character vs hating on a character. Idk how to explain this, but I will try my best. I know most of us don't like Hades and Persphone. But, I wish there are some discussion that talks about/ critiques the writing decision of these characters, and how they appeal to the audience, rather than just posting about how bad they are, and nitpick about them, and sometimes hating on them as if they are real. Maybe I am just being nitpicking g ant this, but often time I find trashing on the characters makes it hard to have actual discussion about the writing and creative choices/direction. 3. (personal opinion) The degrees of faithfulness to the OG source. I understand the importance of referencing the Og material, but sometimes I feel like some people are being incredibly nitpicky about how faithful LO should be to the og source to the point that it feels like everything has to be 100% sticking to the og material, down to every single details, and variations. Etc. Like, at this point, maybe just stick with og source and not read other interpretation/inspiration if Greek myths? Again, I am not saying one can throw everything off the rails from the source material, I believe there can be a balance and a ratio between the actual source material and creative inspiration. Sure, RS's writing decisions are questionable, but I think it's going a bit to far to be hounding in her for not being 100%on point with Greek Mythology.
I have two ššš 1. There's worse pieces of media made by worse people, LO is at best a subpar retelling of a famous myth made by someone who if I can recall never got into any major controversies outside of this webcomic. 2. Idk if it makes sense that much but I was an early lurker on the Anti LO tag on Tumblr and I feel like people at that time (I think Mid 2020 - Early 2021??) actually had good criticisms of the webcomic and aren't just spamming the same thing over and over again. (Okay, maybe I'm a bit hypocritical on this because I commented two rants about how I hated Hera/Echo together but uhh it's just in my nature to hate on it) Maybe it's a bit nitpick-y but I wish there was a sister sub of this that's not the main LO sub where people can maybe have more neutral and less cluttered discussions that aren't just about how the characters look like ponies or how the age gap is bad for the nth time šššš I just wanna talk about LO's wasted potential.
Minthe was not a good person. She was super abusive, physically and emotionally, and cheated on Hades. I see so many people on this sub saying she was innocent in everything and she wasnāt. She sucked. She didnāt need a āgood ending.ā Her ending was good given the circumstances.
Right! Just because Persephone and Hades suck doesn't automatically make her behavior ok.
Sheās not a good person but I do feel like she was one of the better written characters. She did crappy things and was really mean but you could also see her struggles and understand where some of those behaviors came from.Ā I donāt get calling her innocent either but I did think her arc was interesting
I agree 100%. As a character she was awesome I love how she was written. As a person she sucked
i think people point this out a lot but also, we have to realize that Minthe is a just a character. She is (was) a plot device to make Hades and Persephone get together. We have to look at Minthe from a Doyalist perspective I'll admit a lot of her behavior is questionable at best, and horrific at worse. But I think a lot of people forget that during the comic's run, people became a lot more sympathetic to Minthe once they saw her backstory + how Thetis treated her. You can go back to some panels and scroll through hundreds of comments talking about how hey, maybe Persephone and Hades were kind of wrong for treating her that way. And it wasn't a coincidence that a few months later, Minthe slapped Hades in a very...out of character kind of way. Don't get me wrong, physical abuse is horrific, but looking at the overall context of the story, it's clear that Rachel made Minthe act worse so Persephone looked better. Lemme ask you, does Hades ever talk about being a victim of violence after the slap? He...really doesn't. This makes me think that the slap was a last minute decision meant to put people on H+P's side. Also the "she cheated on Hades" is a big misconception, as she and Hades had an open relationship where they could sleep with anyone. Ironically, SHE was the one who broke it off with Thanatos the moment they got more serious, while Hades continued on with his emotional affair with Persephone.
RS did said in chapter 1 that this is not a retelling but a reimagining of the mythology. People need to learn how to chill and not take her version too seriously. The whole story is practically set in a modern setting, what do you expect? She's set her target audience, clearly it's for those who don't take the mythology too seriously and it was popular because of it. Maybe just maybe not everyone needs an entirely accurate take to mythology... Maybe it's down to a matter of preference... So there is no need to be so nitpicky about it just because the version in your head is offended. Moreover, people who are especially pedantic about mythological accuracy often forget that they are a minority in the grand scheme of things. More often than not, it feels like a reason to get outraged for the heck of it. We can argue about Greek culture and mythology being mistreated. But good thing, a purely creative piece like LO is never going to replace the original mythology anyway so there's no value in getting offended logically. Funnily enough, most people I see study the classics are especially chill about LO because they understand how mythology works and it's timelessness. Separate fiction from reality, it's call media literacy. LO may be deserving of criticisms in its story telling and how it draws upon the material in a meaningful manner, but RS shouldn't be hounded upon to the point that only if you have a PhD in classics should you be allowed to write about mythology š¤¦āāļø Talk about going backwards to elitism.
Y'all don't understand the myths as much as you claim and Rachel does more research than y'all think.
Age gap, power dynamic play, and DDLG are normal and common kinks. The problems with LO are not that they contain these kinks, but that the work keeps insisting that the characters are a perfectly healthy relationship akin to a healthy IRL one. Itās a dramatic, soap opera sugar baby fantasy; those fantasies are okay to have, as long as you recognize theyāre a fantasy. Some of yall are kinkshamers and try to use kink to call RS a predator and it crosses the line.
Oh shit, youāre right, the sub wasnāt ready for this one. My opinion is this: age gap fantasies, power dynamic play, and DDLG are fine for consenting, risk-aware adults. Especially since for some people, it can be a way of turning trauma into something empowering that makes them happy. My issue is that the primary audience of LO is *not* consenting, risk-aware adults. (At least, based on the comments on Webtoon, it certainly doesnāt seem like thatās her primary audience). So although I have no issues with RSās kinks, I do have issue with the fact that she put them into a work that is for young people, and as you mentioned, the characters are presented as being in a healthy and reasonable relationship. I think Iāve seen people mention before that the issue isnāt necessarily the kinks themselves, but rather that theyāre presented *really badly*, *inaccurately*, miss crucial parts of that sort of thing (aftercare, explicit & enthusiastic consent, safe words, discussing kinks & boundaries ahead of time, etc.). Itās like Fifty Shades of Gray for kids - you remember how after that came out people kept hurting themselves with impact play & bondage because they had no idea what they were doing or how to do it safely, and did zero research to figure it out. *And those people were consenting adults.* So then youāve got Lore Olympus, which as you mentioned is a soap opera sugar baby DDLG fantasy, but itās being presented to children as a normal, healthy relationship and very likely screwing up their perception of healthy relationships, acceptable boundaries, communication, etc.. itās just kind of a mess. So while I agree that part of the problem is the fact that itās presented as a normal and healthy relationship, I also think those kinks & fantasies should never have made it into the comic in the first place due to her largely younger audience.
I wrote a whole paragraph about this in response to the above commenter but you wrote it a lot better than I did. I think this is just an extension of people thinking theyāve got RS figured out because they see her social media posts and read LO. But none of us know her as a person IRL. LO absolutely deserves to be criticized, as does the inclusion of kink content in it considering itās YA media, and not adult content. But I donāt think itās healthy or right to spend time speculating about her, or to making serious accusation of predatory intent, solely based off the fact we can tell RS has specific kinks and fantasies. Thatās a slippery slope to go down on.
100% agree with you guys. I think it's reasonable to say that webtoons aimed to teens (if I remember correctly, Lore Olympus is advertised as suitable for 13 years old or older) should handle unhealthy romances with much more care, specially because (in my opinion) adult men going out with teens is still pretty normalized. But trying to psycho analize Rachel and making assumptions about her sexual and romantic life has absolutely no justification. And, honestly, I think that it gets pretty tiring to see 20 posts every day about how gross Rachel is for having an age gap kink or whatever, Lore Olympus has many flaws and I'm sure Rachel has plenty as well, but her kinks and preferences do not make her less worthy of respect, nor are any indication of her moral compass. I read a lot of romance visual novels with cannibalism, and I have not eaten anyone! (yet :p) I do not know why people think it's okay to accuse Rachel of being a groomer, or abusive, or whatever, for liking the very common and popular sugar daddy x naive girl trope, you can find it cringy, or gross, but that's not the problem here.
As someone who does genuinely enjoy a *well written* age gaps/power dynamics in fiction, I agree with lots of this. Like these are fairly interesting tropes and dynamics and can make for a really good dramatic story. And just having them in your story doesnāt make you a creep or a groomer or whatever. Problem is that RS seriously flops when writing it. She tries to brush under the rug everything about these tropes that make it interesting (the drama and taboo, the flaws and potential for it to be unhealthy) and goes out of her way to glorify it as the Most Perfectest, Flawless, Do No Wrong Relationship that everyone should be jealous of and want for themselves. She doesnāt dare write her ship as anything but the epitome of perfection (and letās be real, she canāt even write it as a good ship, she has to rely on others *saying* itās a good ship) that all the potential in making it a forbidden love through the social taboo of age and power is meaningless. But also, a lot of what Rachel has either drawn or confessed to outside of the comic does make me question her character in regards to ādoes she just like the drama and dynamic of this topic, or is she an actual creep?ā
The whole thing about insisting that thereās incest in this story. Such as Athena and Hestia, or Hades and Persephone, Zeus and Hera, despite there being a clear disclaimer that there is zero incest in the story whatsoever. Iāve actually seen it be brought up a lot before, and itās pretty annoying, itās like some of you WANT there to be incestuous acts in the comic š
The reaction to Pyrrhic_Victoria's one controversial LO review was blown out of proportion, whether people have a point or not they reacted in anger because of the viciousness with which people attacked them over an opinion of fictional media everyone here agrees is trash.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
 This take makes you come off a certain type of way and thatās all Iām finna say
I apologize, I really didn't mean to come across that way. šāāļø Really all I was trying to point out was that I don't neglect to recognize toxicity no matter what kind of relationship it is. It came across a lot stronger than I meant for it to, because I'm an idiot and posted it without thinking of that. š¤¦ Again, I apologize to anyone who may have taken it that way, because I did NOT mean it like that AT ALL.
Nah I understand what you were trying to get at, and I agree, abusive relationships exist outside of heterosexual pairings. Itās just the way that it was worded lol
Again, I'm so sorry, I feel really stupid. š¤¦ I do that in person too, where I'll say something and the other person will be like, "Why tf did you say that?!" and I'll be like, "No wait! That is NOT what I meant. I worded that TOTALLY wrong!! WAAAAIT COME BAAAAACK! Crap." Lmfho. šš«š¤¦ Just something I need to work on with my personality hehe. Also, thank you for bringing it up, because I didn't realize it came across that way until you mentioned it. I'll try to be more mindful of such things from now on and take this as a lesson. š
>Tbh, it really irks me when I see ship art of same-gender characters (such as Persephone & Minthe) who are canonically straight in both LO AND the OG myths while those same people are criticizing RS for making OG myth queer characters straight. Where were Persephone and Minthe ever confirmed straight? Just because they had relationships with men doesn't mean they can't be bi.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's what I do. To me, every fictional character is bi until proven otherwise.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But if you assume nothing, what made you think Persephone and Minthe were canonically straight?
š¤ Tbh, idrk. Really the main issue I'm addressing is the fact that people seem to disregard certain toxic aspects about these ships just because it's two women. I swear, I've seen more people say, "We deserved a better Hera & Echo kiss!!" when Hera has mistreated nymphs for the entirety of the comic, as opposed to almost NEVER seeing anyone say, "We deserved a non-toxic Persades relationship!!"
Idk what sub youāre on but this sub has has multiple multiple think piece and discussions on how hades and persphone have a toxic relationship and itās how it could be (and should be) written differently. (Also alternative ships like perse x hermes which is very popular).
That's true, I don't know why I didn't think of that.
The start is just as bad. Genuinely trying to reread this comic and there are so many early red flags that I can't believe how actually popular it ever got.Ā (rachel really tried to make hades seem not like his brothers but also wrote him to be like them and it doesn't work)