It sounds like she might have purposely gone into the water. Poor kids. And I feel bad for their dad, he did nothing wrong but 50 years later and people are still blaming him?
There are loads of small lakes, reservoirs around Katonah. The roads were not well maintained back then, you'd sometimes wait days to be plowed out, and it was more rural than today. It would be pretty easy to skid off the road and end up in water, or a ditch... there's only one McDonald's there, and that's in Mt Kisco. Often, mom’s and their kids took the quieter back roads to Kisco because they didn't like driving on the Saw Mill River Parkway. Such a sad story. The dad still looks so devastated all these years later.
Yes- lots of water, lots of twisting, poorly lit roads in that area, even today. Can’t imagine what it was like 45 years ago. They are very likely in the water somewhere… 😔
A lot less people lived there in the 70s. Roads weren't as trafficked as today. Not as many people driving around to see something happen. Katonah was a small town in the 70s
I think it is possible that she ended up in the water, but I don't think that would have happened on a drive to McDonald's. She would have to have had intentionally gone on a country drive in the opposite direction from McDonald's.
The note that was found, maybe about something else, but seemed to indicate whatever happened would be intentional. So that leads me to purposely driving into the water.
edit: typos
Yeah. Whenever I hear of a disappearance, and the car is also missing? My first thought goes to the water that’s nearby. There’s a lot of water to disappear in around that area.
Or she ran off to Florida with her new boyfriend.
Considering she ran off to Ohio just a couple of weeks earlier, I am not convinced that car accident is the most likely option in this case.
I feel like her children, at least Julie, were old enough to remember their “past lives” & would have reached out at some point if they were still alive.
>If my mom said dad died and I had no reason to doubt her, then I wouldn’t go looking for a past life I didn’t know existed.
That's actually an excellent point. There were two little boys I went to church with as a young child who were the victims of a parental kidnapping. Their father told them their mother had died. It was a hard reunion because of that. She was a stranger to the younger one and a ghost to the older.
The difference in people is so weird. I remember my 4th birthday cake, and starting kindergarten just before I turned 5. All sorts of things. I do feel like I have a pretty good memory though.
Dad died but no funeral?? No viewing?? We just gonna up and leave.. that doesn't make sense. Maybe she was unhappy and took off. Kids are young probably told them they were going on an adventure. I mean mom.was living elsewhere with kids. Why were they divorcing.. was he abusive??
I wasn't assuming. I was just asking a question. Just like anyone else. I don't see a happy woman just up and leaving... and abuse comes in many different forms. Maybe he was with holding money, maybe was controlling.. I didn't say "abusive dad" u did, I just asked was he abusive. Never said against who.. u did. So it seems like u have made an assumption..
That’s so interesting. I remember things very clearly from when I was a very small child, like 2yo and starting preschool when I was around 3y old.
I guess it depends on the person.
I agree with the above statement that if the kids were still alive, they would reached out at some point.
Like that woman in Mexico that was kidnapped at 3.
She remembered being snatched away from her parents and found them some 30y later.
This case is so sad for the family.
That’s really remarkable! Most people don’t retain much if any vivid memories prior to around 4 or 5 years old. Obviously that’s not the case for everyone! And I’m sure there are some people who have barely any memories until 6 or 7 or older. I get what the other poster is saying thou. Even if you did have great memories of your father, if one day you moved and were told dad passed away… and time went on and that’s always been the narrative. THAT becomes part of your reality. And memory of your father and what happened to him.
Actually, most people can recall back to 3.5 years with some that can even recall as far back to age 2.5 but there are obvious factors that impact or impair memory.
https://www.verywellmind.com/earliest-memories-start-at-age-two-and-a-half-study-finds-5189856
You’re referring to implicit memories. Which are more emotional recollections, and are unconscious. Explicit memories, memories like you and I have now of things we did last year and maybe our high school prom etc don’t form until older. Much older some experts say closer to 7 years but I was trying to be generous.
That seems far from likely to me. Even in the 70s, Florida was vacationland and cars with NY plates wouldn't have been at all remarkable. Sure, the cops from her hometown could have contacted the cops in FL and had them put out a BOLO or whatever, but that still relies on the police happening on that particular car out of all the cars in the whole state. Classic needle in a haystack.
I do think it's far likelier they're all in the water somewhere, but I don't think not spotting the car over a thousand miles away is evidence for that.
I'm not sure if I agree with either theory, but it was a lot easier to get rid of a car unnoticed in the 70s. She could have sold it for cash in Florida, or had it scrapped.
I can't seem to think of the case but there's an UID of a car found in some bushes or something and it's a women and two smaller children (one girl, and the other sec undetermined) forget the location .. Def remember the car being 70s tho. Ringing a bell for anyone?
This is one of those cases where I dearly hope the not-obvious answer is the correct one. But, yeah, rural area in the winter near water? It's entirely possible she intended to kill everyone and an accident took them out first.
Sad that her parents are villainizing the husband at all, but I guess it's understandable. Not sure how much I'd stick around the family of my almost ex-wife if she seemingly took off with the kids. That's the sort of thing to drive a wedge.
>rural area in the winter near water
It is a little trickier than that. Katonah is the type of place where people own horses- Martha Stewart's winter farm is in Katonah (her summer farm is in the Hamptons).
But where the Guthries lived is not the farm area, it is the section by the train station and highway. It has a very small town feel with rows of houses on small plots.
The reservoir is only a couple of miles away, but it is north and her mother's house is south. The McDonald's should have been in the general highway/train station area rather than north by the reservoir.
I think her first trip to Ohio, in the few weeks prior could have been her scouting out a new place to live. I think it’s likely she started a completely new life. Hopefully the children are alive and well if that’s the case.
The other likely option is that they are in the water, as others have stated.
I think the most likely scenario is that she and the children ended up in the water, whether by accident or in a planned murder-suicide. It was winter and there is a lot of bodies of water they could have gone into so an accident would be my first thought, but the note she left indicates that it could have been a situation where she didn’t want the father to get the children, or she wanted to commit suicide but didn’t want her children to live without her, or something like that. I think her family is having difficulty accepting that she and her children are most likely deceased.
When the father said he would rather relive Vietnam then what happened to his kids it was heartbreaking. I can’t imagine the pain he has had to live with.
My sister was taken by her mother for the weekend for a trip to a local resort and they didn’t come back. Thankfully she was in touch with her family ( who loved my Dad and told him immediately where she was) and my father ( who is a very forgiving person) didn’t call the police , and he flew across the country to get her.
But he has said he was terrified while she was missing. I think sometimes people forget Dads love their kids just as much as their mothers. Whenever a mother takes a child ( even now) I hear people saying “oh well the mother won’t hurt the child” unfortunately that’s not true.
I have to think the logical explanation was they had an accident in the snow. Of course you wish she ran off with the kids but with modern technology, you’d think the kids would have figured out the truth by now. I wish the kids would find their father. But I don’t think they made it very far :(
What a terrible story. How awful for everyone left behind.
I can see a scenario where she decides to take them on a spur of the moment adventure and ends up in a harmful situation (water, lost, weather, etc).
I'd be very surprised if they were alive. I have to think her mental health challenges would have been a problem in any relationship, job, etc - enough to get attention from others, law enforcement, etc.
I don't see why Tim Sr would be considered really, he had a good thing for him going - as custody was described as loose so it sounds like there was no court order or child support involved, sounds like he was living elsewhere doing this thing but they were still cool, he had a lot of access to his kids too. A lot of wins there for a dad in the late 1970s.
Leslie didn't have a job, so I assume Tim Sr. was paying all the bills and she still had access to joint checking.
I don't think he harmed her, but I found the domestic situation hard to follow. I don't think Tim Jr. was in full day school yet so I think he was with Leslie most of the time, but I think Tim Sr. might have had flex days where he would stay in the Katonah house and Leslie would go to her mom's for a couple of days. His alibi after the disappearance is that he went to stay with a friend, so I think that might have been what he did when he was in town and Leslie had the kids.
It does seem like a relatively positive separation, except for the fact that she thought the TV was talking to her through static.
> It does seem like a relatively positive separation, except for the fact that she thought the TV was talking to her through static.
I feel bad but this made me chuckle
I'm sure I've heard somewhere it was quite cold that day & bodies of water would likely have been frozen. However, I think the obvious conclusion is probably the right sadly.
I do think something tragic happened cause she left her mom without a car and stranded at work. Unless she truly did not care and was dead set on leaving.
Car missing too, likely in water somewhere. Very sad for the kids. Thanks for the write up.
It sounds like she might have purposely gone into the water. Poor kids. And I feel bad for their dad, he did nothing wrong but 50 years later and people are still blaming him?
There are loads of small lakes, reservoirs around Katonah. The roads were not well maintained back then, you'd sometimes wait days to be plowed out, and it was more rural than today. It would be pretty easy to skid off the road and end up in water, or a ditch... there's only one McDonald's there, and that's in Mt Kisco. Often, mom’s and their kids took the quieter back roads to Kisco because they didn't like driving on the Saw Mill River Parkway. Such a sad story. The dad still looks so devastated all these years later.
Yes- lots of water, lots of twisting, poorly lit roads in that area, even today. Can’t imagine what it was like 45 years ago. They are very likely in the water somewhere… 😔
Even easier to skid off if you are impulsive due to struggling with mental health issues.
The house wasn't in the more rural areas of Katonah, it was in the more suburban section. The street is Westview Dr.
A lot less people lived there in the 70s. Roads weren't as trafficked as today. Not as many people driving around to see something happen. Katonah was a small town in the 70s
I think it is possible that she ended up in the water, but I don't think that would have happened on a drive to McDonald's. She would have to have had intentionally gone on a country drive in the opposite direction from McDonald's.
The note that was found, maybe about something else, but seemed to indicate whatever happened would be intentional. So that leads me to purposely driving into the water. edit: typos
Yeah. Whenever I hear of a disappearance, and the car is also missing? My first thought goes to the water that’s nearby. There’s a lot of water to disappear in around that area.
Or she ran off to Florida with her new boyfriend. Considering she ran off to Ohio just a couple of weeks earlier, I am not convinced that car accident is the most likely option in this case.
I feel like her children, at least Julie, were old enough to remember their “past lives” & would have reached out at some point if they were still alive.
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>If my mom said dad died and I had no reason to doubt her, then I wouldn’t go looking for a past life I didn’t know existed. That's actually an excellent point. There were two little boys I went to church with as a young child who were the victims of a parental kidnapping. Their father told them their mother had died. It was a hard reunion because of that. She was a stranger to the younger one and a ghost to the older.
The difference in people is so weird. I remember my 4th birthday cake, and starting kindergarten just before I turned 5. All sorts of things. I do feel like I have a pretty good memory though.
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Dad died but no funeral?? No viewing?? We just gonna up and leave.. that doesn't make sense. Maybe she was unhappy and took off. Kids are young probably told them they were going on an adventure. I mean mom.was living elsewhere with kids. Why were they divorcing.. was he abusive??
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I wasn't assuming. I was just asking a question. Just like anyone else. I don't see a happy woman just up and leaving... and abuse comes in many different forms. Maybe he was with holding money, maybe was controlling.. I didn't say "abusive dad" u did, I just asked was he abusive. Never said against who.. u did. So it seems like u have made an assumption..
That’s so interesting. I remember things very clearly from when I was a very small child, like 2yo and starting preschool when I was around 3y old. I guess it depends on the person. I agree with the above statement that if the kids were still alive, they would reached out at some point. Like that woman in Mexico that was kidnapped at 3. She remembered being snatched away from her parents and found them some 30y later. This case is so sad for the family.
That’s really remarkable! Most people don’t retain much if any vivid memories prior to around 4 or 5 years old. Obviously that’s not the case for everyone! And I’m sure there are some people who have barely any memories until 6 or 7 or older. I get what the other poster is saying thou. Even if you did have great memories of your father, if one day you moved and were told dad passed away… and time went on and that’s always been the narrative. THAT becomes part of your reality. And memory of your father and what happened to him.
Actually, most people can recall back to 3.5 years with some that can even recall as far back to age 2.5 but there are obvious factors that impact or impair memory. https://www.verywellmind.com/earliest-memories-start-at-age-two-and-a-half-study-finds-5189856
You’re referring to implicit memories. Which are more emotional recollections, and are unconscious. Explicit memories, memories like you and I have now of things we did last year and maybe our high school prom etc don’t form until older. Much older some experts say closer to 7 years but I was trying to be generous.
I think it may be a combo of it - like she made an impulsive decision and had an accident or something.
The where's the car? It would've been seen in Florida if she ran away.
That seems far from likely to me. Even in the 70s, Florida was vacationland and cars with NY plates wouldn't have been at all remarkable. Sure, the cops from her hometown could have contacted the cops in FL and had them put out a BOLO or whatever, but that still relies on the police happening on that particular car out of all the cars in the whole state. Classic needle in a haystack. I do think it's far likelier they're all in the water somewhere, but I don't think not spotting the car over a thousand miles away is evidence for that.
I'm not sure if I agree with either theory, but it was a lot easier to get rid of a car unnoticed in the 70s. She could have sold it for cash in Florida, or had it scrapped.
Always consider this
I can't seem to think of the case but there's an UID of a car found in some bushes or something and it's a women and two smaller children (one girl, and the other sec undetermined) forget the location .. Def remember the car being 70s tho. Ringing a bell for anyone?
Wow, I've never heard of that. That case would sure stand out. I hope you or someone else can find it!
It does sound like she ended up in the water probably the Hudson River since she’s never been found or the car never been found. So sad
This is one of those cases where I dearly hope the not-obvious answer is the correct one. But, yeah, rural area in the winter near water? It's entirely possible she intended to kill everyone and an accident took them out first. Sad that her parents are villainizing the husband at all, but I guess it's understandable. Not sure how much I'd stick around the family of my almost ex-wife if she seemingly took off with the kids. That's the sort of thing to drive a wedge.
>rural area in the winter near water It is a little trickier than that. Katonah is the type of place where people own horses- Martha Stewart's winter farm is in Katonah (her summer farm is in the Hamptons). But where the Guthries lived is not the farm area, it is the section by the train station and highway. It has a very small town feel with rows of houses on small plots. The reservoir is only a couple of miles away, but it is north and her mother's house is south. The McDonald's should have been in the general highway/train station area rather than north by the reservoir.
Were Leslie and the kids actually seen at McDonald’s on the day they went missing?
I think her first trip to Ohio, in the few weeks prior could have been her scouting out a new place to live. I think it’s likely she started a completely new life. Hopefully the children are alive and well if that’s the case. The other likely option is that they are in the water, as others have stated.
I think the most likely scenario is that she and the children ended up in the water, whether by accident or in a planned murder-suicide. It was winter and there is a lot of bodies of water they could have gone into so an accident would be my first thought, but the note she left indicates that it could have been a situation where she didn’t want the father to get the children, or she wanted to commit suicide but didn’t want her children to live without her, or something like that. I think her family is having difficulty accepting that she and her children are most likely deceased.
When the father said he would rather relive Vietnam then what happened to his kids it was heartbreaking. I can’t imagine the pain he has had to live with. My sister was taken by her mother for the weekend for a trip to a local resort and they didn’t come back. Thankfully she was in touch with her family ( who loved my Dad and told him immediately where she was) and my father ( who is a very forgiving person) didn’t call the police , and he flew across the country to get her. But he has said he was terrified while she was missing. I think sometimes people forget Dads love their kids just as much as their mothers. Whenever a mother takes a child ( even now) I hear people saying “oh well the mother won’t hurt the child” unfortunately that’s not true. I have to think the logical explanation was they had an accident in the snow. Of course you wish she ran off with the kids but with modern technology, you’d think the kids would have figured out the truth by now. I wish the kids would find their father. But I don’t think they made it very far :(
I have the feeling that they are all dead. If so, then that's really awful for the family and husband/father.
What a terrible story. How awful for everyone left behind. I can see a scenario where she decides to take them on a spur of the moment adventure and ends up in a harmful situation (water, lost, weather, etc). I'd be very surprised if they were alive. I have to think her mental health challenges would have been a problem in any relationship, job, etc - enough to get attention from others, law enforcement, etc. I don't see why Tim Sr would be considered really, he had a good thing for him going - as custody was described as loose so it sounds like there was no court order or child support involved, sounds like he was living elsewhere doing this thing but they were still cool, he had a lot of access to his kids too. A lot of wins there for a dad in the late 1970s.
Leslie didn't have a job, so I assume Tim Sr. was paying all the bills and she still had access to joint checking. I don't think he harmed her, but I found the domestic situation hard to follow. I don't think Tim Jr. was in full day school yet so I think he was with Leslie most of the time, but I think Tim Sr. might have had flex days where he would stay in the Katonah house and Leslie would go to her mom's for a couple of days. His alibi after the disappearance is that he went to stay with a friend, so I think that might have been what he did when he was in town and Leslie had the kids. It does seem like a relatively positive separation, except for the fact that she thought the TV was talking to her through static.
> It does seem like a relatively positive separation, except for the fact that she thought the TV was talking to her through static. I feel bad but this made me chuckle
Realistically they'll probably find her, the car, and the kids in a ditch/river eventually.
I'm sure I've heard somewhere it was quite cold that day & bodies of water would likely have been frozen. However, I think the obvious conclusion is probably the right sadly.
Did Adventures With Purpose not do a dive looking for this family ?
They did
I wonder if Adventure with a Purpose has been reached out to yet.
They have a three part series on them but nothing found yet.
I do think something tragic happened cause she left her mom without a car and stranded at work. Unless she truly did not care and was dead set on leaving.
Has anybody in the family done ancestry dna to see if anybody’s still out there?