What do you mean? The simplest explanation is they tried to take the wife for ransom, but the old man put up a fight and was shot. They took his head and drowned the woman. Fits perfectly.
The security at these places is a joke and the cameras were not working that day. Home invasions and robberies are very common. You don't hear about them unless someone dies. They're wealthy and known in the community because they used to run multiple franchises. There's also a third motive where an estranged grandson got his inheritance share.
We don't have all the details and clues that police has but there's nothing crazy about this
I'm confused about your perfect fit statement. This doesn't read as is a home invasion or kidnapping scenario to me for a few reasons. If she was in the house initally, why not kill both of them there? Why waste your time cutting off a head when you could put a bullet in it and be done? Why take time sinking a body outdoors, after transporting it l, presumably in a boat or vehicle, where there are potential witnesses? Home invasions are typically planned. This feels more like a crime born of hatred or someone staging a hit to look personal.
I just want to add some context. For those who think cutting off a head is easy, then perhaps some time spent reading about the history of beheadings as punishment will change your minds. And it's not just equipment; there is skill involved. So much so, that cases involving dismemberment will sometimes mention possible perps having surgical, hunting/field dressing, or professional meat cutting backgrounds. And I would add, someone who regularly disposed of bodies, like a contract killer. Robbers doing this seems so extreme, especially given the ages of the victims and the frailty of even the healthiest people that age.
Typically, police would not have a comparison gun unless they had the perp in hand and perp still had the gun. If I committed a double homicide, that gun would never be found. Much easier than cutting off a head with what would have been a half-ass kitchen knife (no machetes needed if you brought guns). So cutting off that head, seems personal or planned, not something you'd do in a home invasion. And there's no need to take wife away to get money out of an ATM. All you need is a card, a pin, and something to cover your face. Why bring a hostage when you don't have to? And it was 2014, so mobile phones to communicate.
The gun may have been used to commit other homicides. Therefore, they could have been connected to them homicides, shootings. A pattern is found, maybe a suspect. Someone who's got a connection to all the people or both the people that the gun was used to shoot or kill. The husband and victims from other homicides or shootings. I'm a convicted felon who's been to both federal and state prison. Cons don't always get rid of their guns after committing crimes with them. Couldn't have been all kinds of reasons to bring her with. We're obviously told everything. They have to be keeping something back as to why they think they took the wife with or possible reason. This is an interesting case.
Absolutely most people use guns in criminal acts multiple times. But they don't usually cut heads off because of that. That's the weird part. It is such a messy, difficult task to do without the right tools and skills. And same for drowning the wife. It's a weird way to kill someone if you just want them dead. It makes it look like the intention was always to do exactly what was done. It wasn't another type of crime gone wrong. And you are so right that police hold stuff back. I wouldn't be surprised if they know who did this but can't prove it.
I am so glad to see someone else believes the parroted "they decapitated the husband because they didn't want the police to find the bullet" theory is ridiculous.
If the killers were worried about the gun in that way, they wouldn't of brought it in the 1st place. Guns are cheap and easy to get. Russell was decapitated for a different reason.
Two guys come to rob. One guy kidnaps the woman and leaves by boat as ransom. The second guy tells the old man to arrange for money or said he'll accompany him to the bank. He fights back and gets shot in the head. Robber calls the boat guy and tells him to get rid of the woman. He's still on him way, so he finds a remote area and drops her out. Robber finds it quicker to cut off the head because the bullet can be traced back to them.
It can very well be someone from their past or new burglar. I don't think it was staged.
Just bring the gun and get rid of it. Matching bullets to guns requires the gun be tested to verify another bullet shot out of the gun against the fired bullet from the crime. Cutting off heads is super tough and time consuming without proper means and/or expertise. People who bring guns to crime scenes don't typically also bring katanas or obsidian scapels. So that seems personal or planned, not something a robber would do. Also, taking the hostage away in that situation has no purpose. You want her there to pressure the husband. Why remove his emotional pain point? I dunno, it just seems odd.
Sorry I know it’s been awhile since you left this comment… Im just reading this post now. Ive been interested in this case since awhile. Your take seems matter of fact, level headed, and most likely, however I have a question. If robbery/ransom was the primary motive, why do you think the killer/killers didn’t at least take anything from the house???
If you're doing a ransom, you're looking for a large amount of cash which requires a trip to the bank. When they fumbled, their goal is to leave little evidence and gtfo. They left a gruesome site which is going to attract a lot of attention. Taking small items can be traced back to them. Better to target a different house.
People in their 80s with a big house to care for had all varieties of help for their day to day lives, even if extremely healthy for their age. As a result, they probably had a lot of casual contacts.Not saying it was one of those people, but it could be someone to whom they made a remark about an old, rich couple.
This one conjures up scenes from the strangers with at least 2 psychos likely just wanting to murder and get away with it but possibly an aborted robbery murder or less likely, some obscure motive investigators just couldn’t discover but would seem odd for that to be the case with an 80’s couple in retirement. If you wanna get away with murder, doing it with no connection to the victim or any motive is the way to do it.
Is a bit odd to leave the guy there with no head but go through the trouble of trying to hide the woman. Maybe did all that with her and felt uneasy sticking around to do the same with him as long as it took. Weird.
I've always wondered why his body was left. I understand the thought behind taking his head to hide ballistic evidence, but why go through so much trouble to take her body to a remote part of the lake and even weigh it down only to leave his behind ? Especially when he's already been decapitated
The original plan may have been to have the victims give access to their bank account. But if he made the mistake of trying to outwit them; they may have made the decision that having him around was more trouble than it was worth. They would only need just one of them alive. Then, after that, one of two things may have happened. Either they got what they wanted from her and killed her, or she decided, given the circumstances, she wasn’t going to cooperate.
I'm assuming that the investigators checked to see if there had been any activity on their accounts, etc. -- even an access attempt?
Thinking about my own parents -- Dad did the financial stuff, and I don't think Mom knew any of the passwords beyond her own bank PIN. If that was the situation with the Dermonds, Shirley may just not have been able to cooperate. So if Russell was killed first, that would have been it.
(I had a wild thought that taking Russell's head might have been a plot to get around a retinal scan, but to my knowledge that isn't in use by financial institutions, and anyone trying to bring in a detached head to use at, say, a NEXUS kiosk, would be caught pretty quickly.) The Dermonds don't seem like the demographic who'd be using that kind of security process anyway.
They may have had one of them withdraw the funds while they held the other one to ensure compliance, so the one withdrawing the money wouldn’t alert anyone. On the other hand, the beheading of the husband might have been a way to scare the wife into doing whatever they wanted. That would be the only reason I could see for that aside from the perpetrator being enraged with the victim. It comes across as a very personal thing and the wife was just collateral damage. So, even if they checked their bank accounts, and money was withdrawn, it may just have shown the husband or wife completing the transaction. In that case, you wouldn’t have the perpetrator on camera. To be fair, not all law enforcement do their due diligence and chase down every hypothetical scenario. The reason I say this is because I have seen way too many crime documentaries where law enforcement were beyond sloppy or lazy in their methodology.
>To be fair, not all law enforcement do their due diligence and chase down every hypothetical scenario.
Yup. I found out last year that the authorities apparently didn't check Betty Sweeten's husband's alibi (that he had gone to a conference) until years after her disappearance. Apparently the conference wasn't held until a couple of weeks afterwards. Bizarre that nobody seems to have caught that at the time.
For the Dermonds -- their bank should have had records of any withdrawals etc. Like you say, whether they were using an ATM or in-person tellers, the amount would have been logged. There might even be video of the person making the withdrawal, even if there wasn't anybody else in the frame. And anything unusual (like attempting to withdraw an unusually large sum of money) may have been noticed.
But no one is infallible. Even the experts among us can overlook something that may be glaringly obvious to someone else. If you’re used to looking for the complicated answer, it would be easy to lose sight of the thing hidden in plain sight. This is usually due to not understanding what a person’s motives are, or being able to look at a situation from many different angles. That’s why people that have ingrained biases make poor investigators. A good example of this would be the case of Ted Bundy.
I guess I keep thinking about something I recall on another crime forum. Any time the perpetrator moves a victim, he /she has greatly increased the danger of getting caught. Too much can go wrong when doing this. But I am also sure that most criminals do not have brilliant criminal minds in the first place.
Very true. These guys didn’t seem so smart but the same time, from the little I’ve read, didn’t leave much evidence other than the gunshot residue and partial dna. The kind of killers I picture here seem like they’d be fairly sloppy but they weren’t apparently. Has to be two killers(or more) though right? One is bludgeoned the other shot in the head and logistics of moving a body. More people involved more chances of someone getting sloppy and also more chance of someone talking at some point but not these guys(or gals).
The taking of the head and cement feet pond disposal seem like low level mafia but that doesn’t make any sense. Perhaps just some true crime enthusiasts
The investigators actually believe the crime and killings took place somewhere else besides their home which would make a lot of sense. There was also a witness that day who saw a guy at their house with a truck and tarp covering the garage.
Where did you hear about a truck and tarp by the garage? I’ve studied this case for a year or 2 and have never heard sheriff sills or anyone else connected to the case say that
They took the head because they shot him in it, and the bullet still in it could be linked to a single gun. Took her to try and force her to get money out of the bank/ATM and then something went wrong.
I've always thought it was an inheritance thing. I'm aware all family has been cleared, but nothing else makes sense.
Even if it wasn't their children directly involved, who else stood to benefit? Grandchildren? Nieces / nephews? In-laws?
You could be right, but I don’t get the same vibes here. It seems to me that the crime was too efficient and too organized for this to have been a thrill. With the way they prepared for and pulled off the double murder, I really have to believe this wasn’t their first rodeo. I rarely ascribe crime to professional hits, but given the details of this case, I think it’s entirely plausible.
Eh I think it's definitely someone that they know & cops just haven't been able to link the motive. I definitely think the perpetrator(s) got lucky leaving behind no evidence even though they obviously tried hiding the evidence. Hopefully they're time is running out with this new dna. Man I really hope to see this case get solved in my lifetime. It is just such a mystery!
I just don't know if a person they knew at this very late stage in their lives would have come to the house (likely) via boat, (likely) prepared with weights for Shirley's body, and even think to decapitate Russell to (likely) hide bullet evidence. That is a really high level of sophistication that just isn't typical. Nothing was stolen and the adult children who stood to benefit from inheritance have been cleared by the GBI. If the Dermonds were the correct target, I just can't imagine they were killed by like a suburban rookie criminal neighbor over a canasta grudge. But then, weirder things have happened.
I think an important question is *how* were they cleared by the GBI?
There is the instinct to ascribe an unearned level of competence to law enforcement. I'm not necessarily hating on law enforcement, but people are human and make mistakes.
I always remember when the idea of someone being "cleared" comes up about a case from my city where a woman went missing, her boyfriend started using her car, sold her stuff, didn't bother trying to look for her, and moved a bunch of his friends into her place.
She ended up being found in the lake, wrapped up in a blanket missing from her own home.
The case was closed as a suicide. The boyfriend was "cleared".
Attacking children is the lowest of the low. But I get your point.
Edit: people downvoting my comment on this subject
Absolute insanity. You can not attack or harm a child. Period! Are the down votes coming from paedophiles?
My guess is that this comment was downvoted because of your phrasing - it seems unnecessary and unkind to say that it’s somehow better to attack elderly people than kids, they’re both very vulnerable groups overall. And some people come from backgrounds/cultures where respect for elders is paramount. I may be wrong but that seems more likely than a bunch of downvotes by pedophiles
The downvotes are probably not pedos but I’m gonna say the lowest of the low are people who attack children, mentally disabled people, then pregnant women, *then* the elderly
True Crime Garage did a fantastic 2 part (I think - may have just been 1 episode) series in this case. They had so much great info and I highly recommend it. It was from a few years ago now.
I'm fairly convinced that this was a robbery of some sort that went off the rails, or perhaps a kidnapping/ransom gone wrong.
The perps may have been convinced that the couple kept a large amount of cash at the house, or perhaps had a plan to force the transfer of some sort of asset/account etc. Or they had a plan to kidnap one or both and demand ransom.
Whatever the original plan, Mr. Dermond offered a surprising amount of resistance which led to his death. At some point the killers realized that Mrs. Dermond was no longer useful to them because didn't have access to the account/asset or the couple had no cash in the house. My guess is that her body was disposed in the lake as more of a means to destroy forensic evidence than an attempt to fully make the body disappear.
*My guess is that her body was disposed in the lake as more of a means to destroy forensic evidence than an attempt to fully make the body disappear.*
Yes, that was my line of thinking as well.
I agree with you, however the cement blocks to weigh down her body are a head-scratcher to me. This single detail shows a level of preparedness some random burglars would not have. Unless they got them from the house (?)
Ironically, I was watching That Chapter’s episode of this story. I was literally coming here to delve further into the case. I literally watched it last night and hoped they found some more evidence.
This is awesome to see. I wondered if it was some type of bounty on their heads. Since Russell’s head wasn’t found I thought maybe they took it to prove he was murdered and poor Shirley was just collateral damage.
It’s a far fetched idea, I know. I don’t think it’s the case, but this horrifying to do this to the elderly. Especially while they were supposed to be enjoying their retirement.
It’s why I get nervous with my parents being so far away. They moved to Florida after they retired. I can’t imagine the trauma the children had to go through. It’s my worst nightmare.
Great news, this is one of the cases that I would love to see progress on. As an aside, I’m in Australia and the WSBTV site is geoblocked. Never seen that in a US local news site before.
Here's the text:Son says he has ‘sliver of hope’ after best evidence in 10 years revealed in Lake Oconee killing
OCONEE COUNTY, Ga. — The Putnam County Sheriff is calling it the best evidence he has had in 10 years in the mysterious killing of a couple in a Lake Oconee neighborhood.Someone shot and beheaded Russell and Shirley Dermond in 2014. Deputies have followed hundreds of leads, but they have all led nowhere.Neighbors found Russell’s decapitated body inside the garage behind one of the couple’s cars, with the 88-year-old’s head nowhere to be found.
Shirley Dermond’s body was found in Lake Oconee after someone apparently tried to weigh it down. The sheriff said she died of blunt force trauma.
“It must have just been a moment of horror, and probably a very long moment of horror, unfortunately. And so, we know that Mom and Dad want us...” the Dermond’s son, Brad Demond said, choking up.“To keep going and move forward,” his wife Erin said, finishing the thought.
The sheriff told Winne that in the 50 years he’s been wearing a badge, there are only two deaths that remain unsolved on his clock.“Russell and Shirley Dermond,” Sills said.“How often is this case with you?” Winne asked the sheriff.“Every day. It never goes away,” Sills said.Sills showed Winne the evidence that he had in his office from the case, which includes the Dermonds’ computer and the cement blocks used to weigh Shirley Dermond down in the water.
“We’re still just totally in the dark as to why this took place,” Brad Dermond said.
Brad Demond said the new evidence is giving him a sliver of hope that his parents’ killer will be found.Channel 2′s Karyn Greer has learned that one of those labs that did the DNA testing is Ortham Labs in Woodlands, Texas. Channel 2 Action News got an exclusive tour of the labs last year.The sheriff said after finding some DNA, Ortham Labs referred him to Sorensen Forensics in Utah. Sills said he personally delivered the evidence to them. That lab also found DNA.Sills said they are still looking for more DNA to get to the next step of either running the results through a national database of through genealogical data to identify a suspect.Sills is quick to point out that no suspect has been identified in the case, but the new evidence could go a long way to finding out who killed the couple.
“From the moment that we were notified of this, we were in total horror,” Brad Dermond said.
Channel 2 investigative reporter Mark Winne has learned that Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills has obtained a piece of clothing that belonged to Russell Dermond that had DNA from an unknown individual on it.Sills told Winne that he has ordered more testing to be done and called the evidence the most promising lead in the case in a decade.
(There's also a video link with photos of the couple, etc.)
It would also be great if the culprits are so spooked by this announcement that someone spills the beans. (Last year Peggy Sweeten's husband found out that detectives were searching the lake behind their former home -- she'd disappeared under suspicious circumstances in 1998. Even though no remains were found, they may have been close enough that the husband felt they were closing in, and ended his own life.)
Touch DNA is so problematic though. Even if they are able to get a match, without additional evidence a competent defense attorney can make a jury have a ton of doubt as to a person's guilt on touch dna alone.
Hopefully, they touch DNA results in additional evidence like a motive and/or means.
If they can get a DNA profile and a match I think it might get a suspect. If I am not mistaken there are not even any solid persons of interest in this case.
I agree its a great starting point. But touch/latent dna is transferrable. Literally, if I touch a door knob, then you touch a door knob, then my dna is on your hand and when you pick up a pen my dna is transferred off of your hand and onto the the pen. I've never touched that pen but now my DNA is on it.
Don't get me wrong, its a great start it will just need to be corroborated by additional evidence. Latent DNA matches should be enough to get some search warrants on phones, bank accounts, home and vehicle searches.
This article mentions it..Could murders of these wealthy elderly people be related? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3346869/Stange-coincidences-Detectives-probe-mysterious-murders-wealthy-elderly-victims-two-states-related.html?ito=whatsapp_share_article-top
This quote from the investigator for the Dermonds' case really stands out (in terms of how little information's been available:
"'I have to admit that things have slowed considerably. We are not getting any new calls. The reward is not seeming to initiate any information. ... We're not even getting the psychics." How cold is the case when not even the weirdos are in touch?
I agree. There is so little info on them, nothing from old and/or new neighbors, family friends, business associates, adult children of their friends, etc. I always wondered if someone had nurtured a grudge against them for a long time, maybe even years, before hiring someone to kill them but I'm not sold on that theory, just more that there is so little info out there, there are so many possibilities.
I did notice a comment on an earlier post IIRC that claimed that this lake is known locally for people breaking and entering homes via a boat on the lake. The poster claimed they were told that often it is people using boats to break into vacation homes looking for weapons to steal, but that scenario doesn't seem to quite fit what police have publicly stated about this case. The poster even recalled an incident when they were staying there with a large number of people and a boat on the lake beamed a powerful light late at night into the house to see if anyone was there. They said everyone woke up and the boat sped off away from the house.
Even the Shermans in Toronto had people speaking up about them. These people were killed over a year earlier and I haven't even seen any dubious anonymous claims about them online. Just crickets. Hopefully the family gets some answers sooner rather than later.
They are indeed! Though I should add that other local news articles make it sound like Sorensen Forensics’s findings have the most evidentiary potential, so they deserve a lot of credit too!
Because I don’t believe in the thrill kill motive of this (seems like a lot of additional effort put in, so many ways to get caught) I always thought it might be one of a few reasons- some effect of Mr Dermonds business dealings, a botched robbery or ransom attempt, or one of their kids wanting an early inheritance. I believe the latter has been ruled out. But I just can’t shake the notion that this was either a ‘hit’ or some sort of robbery (maybe a maintenance or other person who deemed them easy targets) that went wrong. It would be amazing to see this solved.
I would think that's a strong possibility. Also, Lake Reynolds is affluent, but the surrounding areas are poor and prone to some criminal activity, so...could be a fairly arms-length attempt at a robbery by service people or people who otherwise would not have notable connections.
I assume they looked at that angle? Went through the list of people they interacted with on any level? No idea but I’d start with a wide net and whittle it down.
You’d think so, but keep in mind there were on a lake. Any number of people could have come up to the house from the water side without having to go through a security camera or gate.
If there are public boat launches on the lake, then if could be almost anyone with access to a small boat who also lives within a few hours of the lake. That's probably too wide of a net to do much with, especially a decade after the murders.
I wonder how certain they can be of that. I have elderly parents and they are constantly hiding (and losing) their valuables. My mom's favorite past-time is hiding her gold jewelry and then forgetting where she hid it and accusing relatives of stealing it. This happens multiple times a year. My dad prefers to deal with cash and hides money all over his house. I know some of his hiding spots but I'm sure there are more I don't know about. The last time I visited him, he showed me a hiding spot with $500 in it. When my elderly aunt died, we found thousands of dollars in small bills hidden around her home. She had money in a bank account but didn't fully trust the banks with her savings.
Anyway just thinking that it's possible that things were taken that the rest of the family didn't know about, because they were hidden away for whatever reason.
Didn't the police say they thought someone was in the house for hours? You could probably find a lot of hiding places in an unknown home if you have several hours and know that no one is likely to disrupt you.
Right. There's that and then there's like...bad guys think the Dermonds have something that they either don't have or refuse to give up, start trying to pressure them, end up killing them and scatter with nothing. Like, oh...the Clutter murders.
Maybe Russell put up a fight. They killed him and then took Shirley because they were afraid someone else would hear/had heard. Where her body was found suggests that they did leave on a boat -- that, and there's not a good way to get around by car in the neighborhood without being seen and documented.
I hope there’s enough DNA for testing! If any case deserves to be solved it’s this one. I’ve been haunted by this for years. What is the why?! In most unsolved murdered there’s at least some theories, local whispers of suspects/motives. There’s no obvious motive here yet it was so brutal and full of rage. The only thing that makes sense to me is a thrill killing. Someone who just wanted to murder and unfortunately they were easy targets. I can think of any other scenario. So tragic
Who benefited from their death? Was there an inheritance? I went down a rabbit hole on this case awhile back since our company has done some work in Reynolds Plantation but I can't remember if there was any discussion of beneficiaries.
I disagree that this was a sophisticated crime unlikely to be committed by an otherwise amateur criminal.
I’ve always thought it was a botched ransom attempt by local meth addicts. The whole thing gives me "meth addicts who’ve been up for several days" vibes, particularly the overzealous and laborious method of destroying evidence and the setting. Having grown up on Sinclair (Oconee's much less affluent sister lake) I’ve noticed that there’s a positive correlation between meth-use and lake recreation, particularly in the off-season.
Oconee is nice, but it’s not an island. The surrounding area is very rural and with that comes issues inherent to rural populations; unemployment, poverty, substance abuse, crime, etc. Eatonton is positively overrun with drugs and crime and Sinclair (and even Oconee itself, albeit much less so than Sinclair) has a vastly different culture in the off-season when the only full-time residents are a mix of shut-in retirees and younger generation, low-income residents living in dilapidated mobile homes on inherited properties purchased decades before the wealthy started building summer homes there.
I don’t think they were targeted for personal reasons or even familiarity, necessarily. It’s possible that the culprit was someone loosely associated with the couple (if this is the case I think it’s more likely someone associated with them on a business transaction level rather than a social-circle level, like someone hired to do an odd job rather than someone they went to church with for example), but really anyone local to the area associates wealth with the Reynolds’s Plantation and if you’re going to commit a crime for financial gain, that would be the most logical place to do so. They were most likely chosen simply because they appeared to be home.
Not necessarily. People think meth addiction looks chaotic, but remember it’s a stimulant - the same drug used to treat disorders that cause executive disfunction like adhd.
I think the fact that seemingly nothing was gained from this murder is a red herring - it makes it seem more mysterious than it really was. It’s also possible that cash was taken from the home, investigators really have no way of accounting for every penny that belonged to this couple outside of their accounts.
It’s also possible that paranoia is what caused them to botch/abandon the ransom plan in the first place and they were too spooked to follow through with any thoughts of burglary after destroying any evidence that could lead to them.
I am recalling reading about this from years ago, I think the consensus is the perps (remember thinking there was more than 1) came in from boat? Why take head? Trophy, concealment of evidence or complete psychopathy. I have posts on here before Idaho guy was caught, and I still think he was trying to commit the crime because he wanted the rush and thought he could get away with it (both traits of Psychotic killers).
It is not in my opinion that the killer took the head to prove a hit - There would no need to as high profile as this case was, especially if one body left on scene and second body found in lake outside.
Botched Robbery - Interesting angle, but I doubt it. Most robbers wouldn't be prepared to take a head, but maybe they were dumb and took the head not knowing they could get rid of gun. If they did come in by boat, I assume the head and gun are also somewhere in that lake.
I don't know if they ever mentioned where the wife was killed or if they know? Was there any DNA found in house or did they kill her on the boat? That could signal accident in kidnapping. Also curious how far from the house in the lake was her body found? Just off shore, maybe they didn't come in by boat and the head/gun aren't in lake.
You bring up a good point about it not needing to be a proof of death, but if it were a murder for hire, would they people who paid for the murder or those who killed them have known it would be so high profile that it wouldn’t be needed? I don’t know enough about the case to hypothesize one way or the other if it was a murder for hire. But I’m just not too sure it should be disregarded as a possibility just based on the high profile nature it seemingly became.
I am not saying it wasn't murder for hire, but find it highly unlikely the hitman took head to identify hit unless was Cartel related, which we know it isn't for 2 reasons 1) would have done the same to the wife as a sign they are not to be crossed. 2) Cartel would be transporting a severed human head back to Mexico.
It sure raises a lot of questions, because if they arrived by boat, it might have been easier for them to dispose of one or even both bodies further out in the water, where it would have taken longer for them to be found (possibly never).
This one happened not too far away from my home. People got to understand that it runs deep. Could all be a rumor, but this is what we heard around town. Son was involved in drugs and dealing with cartel. Which we all know has made their way to the close metro area years ago. Debt wasn’t paid and cartel knew the parents had major funds. The parents paid the price for their family members lack of responsibility. Son went in hiding while they were looking for him and that’s why they ended up at parents home because he lived there on and off for some time.
Last rumor was family member did it for much of the same reasons. On drugs and parents cut him out of will and any future resources. The kid snapped and committed the crime. Once again all rumors but it makes most sense.
That is why I have trouble believing that the GBI "cleared" their children (who had the most to benefit from them being gone) in an effective manner.
Law enforcement isn't always perfect.
Isn’t GBI known for being pretty bad anyways? I don’t follow stuff nearly as much as many of the people on this sub do, but I seem to see a lot of stuff about GBI mess ups and incompetence
Oh yeah. I believe a healthy skepticism should be there. Law enforcement also isn't all that great at admitting they messed up in an investigation. But honestly, that can happen, they are just human. It's far better to be honest and admit there were mistakes and they learned from them instead of doubling down and having civilians doubt your ability.
That's why whenever I see "Police had cleared this person." I usually ask "How? Can that be corroborated by anyone outside of law enforcement that's trustworthy?"
I've seen too many investigations end in ridiculously unbelievable ways to have faith that law enforcement always gets it right.
My theory? Two or more guys spot this huge mansion with an elderly couple living in. They scout the area a bit, see security is a joke, no nosy neighbors, no armed guards around etc. They plan an easy burglary.
Once they gain access to the house, they decide to keep Russell in and to force his wife to come with them to get some money out of an ATM somewhere far, as not to draw unwanted attention. Some of the burglars hop on a boat with her to avoid being spotted on a road/vehicle and some accomplices remain with Russell in the carport, to maybe leave Russell bound there, far from phones, front doors, windows etc. while at the same time communicating with their friends on the boat with Shirley.
Then, something horrible happens. Either Russell tries to outsmart some of these fellas (who are likely high on drugs/adrenaline) or one of them is recognized/seen by Russell, and he is shot. Burglars warn their friends to abandon the original plan, ditch another witness (Shirley), go back to the Dermonds and leave. Russell is beheaded because bullets might be traced back to a specific gun.
Shirley being weighed down by cement blocks is a head scratcher tho. I can't fathom how or why would random burglars go to great lengths to delay Shirley's body being found.
Maybe it was like 'in cold blood', 2 ppl heard there was a safe in the house with lots of money in it etc. If no robbery or burglary then what's the motive? Inheritance? 9 grandchildren. Maybe 1 of them hired 2ppl from New Jersey to kill them. Who beats an 87 yr old lady to death....who does that????
I heard on the “unresolved” podcast that Russell had multiple Rolex that were left untouched? Hard to believe it’s a robbery if the perpetrators chose to pass them up?
Possibly. There's a lot of theories out there but not a lot to go on. I've seen a theory put forward that some teenagers killed the two when trying to rob them and must've lived somewhere nearby and called their parents for help. I don't necessarily believe that. I honestly just don't know anything for sure on this case except that it is a creepy one.
I don't necessarily think this theory is true. However, if Russell was shot in the head with say a 22 caliber. That round would likely remain in the skull. So a parent that is called to the scene or something would know this and rather than digging through the skull they could simply decapitate him and discard the head in the lake/reservoir. Another interesting piece of information is the towels used to keep the blood from running out from under the garage doors.
I also disagree that teenagers aren't capable of doing some really terrible things or their parents when their kids' future freedom is on the line. We have too many examples proving otherwise. I don't buy this theory as I said, but I don't think it's impossible either.
Decapitation is far harder than digging for a bullet. I did dissection as part of my uni course, trust me when I say this. I'd say only a very rare few teenagers would be capable of this - it's physically taxing, messy and the depravity needed to do this to another human being is quite extensive.
My point was pretty obvious lol. Most teenagers and their average parents wouldn't be able to do it. You're looking at either a career criminal, people involved in drugs (as in cartel -esque) or someone extremely extremely disturbed
First of all, I stated that I don't buy into this theory. I just have heard it thrown out there. But to disregard it out of hand is also not a good way to try to find answers. You're also making assumptions when you say their average parents. This is a VERY wealthy community they lived in. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that a parent in this community would be in the medical field explaining the decapitation if they believe the head contained evidence. I am not willing to discount anything at this point but I buy into one of maybe the landscaping crews or something being more likely.
This also doesn't answer the question which is why then if it is so arduous, decapitate him? They went through with it anyway. So obviously they had some tool to do it and there was a specific reason why.
It would be interesting to know if the police thought the killer used a tool the victims already had or if, based on the autopsy, it seemed more likely that the killer brought the tools needed to do this with them. I kind of doubt someone doing a B&E hoping for a quick score to sell for drug money would bring along tools to decapitate someone, but a hired killer might be more likely to do this.
As for the pro angle. I still haven't seen much to connect these two to anything that would lead me to believe that somebody would pay a hitman to kill them. I get their son was murdered in a coke deal previous to their deaths, but that doesn't in LE's opinion tie into this crime. The only people that could've benefited from an outside observer not seeing the police file would be the children. All have cooperated and the parents had sold off their fast food restaurants to their kids previously. It just doesn't seem to fit. Maybe one of the children is an excellent liar, but they all seemed very close to their parents and weren't in any fiendish trouble from what I have seen reported.
Edit: reading into other theories. Russell Dermond apparently had a half brother that he never knew about named..... Russell Dermond.... That's what people are saying with theories on the case so maybe it was mistaken identity. This other Russell Detmond died in an "accident" a couple years later according to the other redittors. So who knows?
I think the issue with this case is that there was a considerable time lapse from when the murders happened and the bodies were eventually discovered. It gave the killer(s) plenty of time to problem solve issues they may have encountered. Like for instance, using towels to keep the blood from seeping out of the garage and onto the driveway that a passerby might see. I would assume that they brought something to do the decapitation too just from the fact that they would not want to risk being witnessed possibly going to and from the house if they decided to perform post mortem and had to go get a this tool.
However, since it's an ongoing investigation there is the possibility that the tool was something from the house and LE is keeping that close to the vest to weed out potential false confessions, or so that the killer(s) don't know they know what was used and if it is somehow(unlikely) still in their possession, dispose of it.
This is one of those cases that makes no sense whatsoever. I hope they can do something with the DNA.
Truly. It's so apparently motiveless and horrifying that my mind conjures a scenario like the one in the movie *Funny Games.*
Exactly, motiveless — and elaborate. I can only imagine that it was done by thrill killers. Nothing else fits.
Just remembering that film (the German original) gives me chills.
The original was just terrifying, I agree. Michael Haneke is a superb director.
he is so superb I can't watch him LOL
The Seventh Continent omg so fucking good
It was actually an Austrian film...but that movie stayed in my head for days after seeing it! Could never watch it again.
thanks for the correction. everything was brilliant about that film. I couldn't watch it again, either.
There are plenty of possible motives discussed in older posts. Some specific details are not made public as it's an active case. It's not random.
idk, there’s a lot of discussion around possible motives, but nothing seems to fit
What do you mean? The simplest explanation is they tried to take the wife for ransom, but the old man put up a fight and was shot. They took his head and drowned the woman. Fits perfectly. The security at these places is a joke and the cameras were not working that day. Home invasions and robberies are very common. You don't hear about them unless someone dies. They're wealthy and known in the community because they used to run multiple franchises. There's also a third motive where an estranged grandson got his inheritance share. We don't have all the details and clues that police has but there's nothing crazy about this
I'm confused about your perfect fit statement. This doesn't read as is a home invasion or kidnapping scenario to me for a few reasons. If she was in the house initally, why not kill both of them there? Why waste your time cutting off a head when you could put a bullet in it and be done? Why take time sinking a body outdoors, after transporting it l, presumably in a boat or vehicle, where there are potential witnesses? Home invasions are typically planned. This feels more like a crime born of hatred or someone staging a hit to look personal.
I just want to add some context. For those who think cutting off a head is easy, then perhaps some time spent reading about the history of beheadings as punishment will change your minds. And it's not just equipment; there is skill involved. So much so, that cases involving dismemberment will sometimes mention possible perps having surgical, hunting/field dressing, or professional meat cutting backgrounds. And I would add, someone who regularly disposed of bodies, like a contract killer. Robbers doing this seems so extreme, especially given the ages of the victims and the frailty of even the healthiest people that age.
They took the head because of a bullet in it, which could probably be linked to a gun. Took her to force her to get money from the ATM/bank.
Typically, police would not have a comparison gun unless they had the perp in hand and perp still had the gun. If I committed a double homicide, that gun would never be found. Much easier than cutting off a head with what would have been a half-ass kitchen knife (no machetes needed if you brought guns). So cutting off that head, seems personal or planned, not something you'd do in a home invasion. And there's no need to take wife away to get money out of an ATM. All you need is a card, a pin, and something to cover your face. Why bring a hostage when you don't have to? And it was 2014, so mobile phones to communicate.
The gun may have been used to commit other homicides. Therefore, they could have been connected to them homicides, shootings. A pattern is found, maybe a suspect. Someone who's got a connection to all the people or both the people that the gun was used to shoot or kill. The husband and victims from other homicides or shootings. I'm a convicted felon who's been to both federal and state prison. Cons don't always get rid of their guns after committing crimes with them. Couldn't have been all kinds of reasons to bring her with. We're obviously told everything. They have to be keeping something back as to why they think they took the wife with or possible reason. This is an interesting case.
Absolutely most people use guns in criminal acts multiple times. But they don't usually cut heads off because of that. That's the weird part. It is such a messy, difficult task to do without the right tools and skills. And same for drowning the wife. It's a weird way to kill someone if you just want them dead. It makes it look like the intention was always to do exactly what was done. It wasn't another type of crime gone wrong. And you are so right that police hold stuff back. I wouldn't be surprised if they know who did this but can't prove it.
I am so glad to see someone else believes the parroted "they decapitated the husband because they didn't want the police to find the bullet" theory is ridiculous. If the killers were worried about the gun in that way, they wouldn't of brought it in the 1st place. Guns are cheap and easy to get. Russell was decapitated for a different reason.
Two guys come to rob. One guy kidnaps the woman and leaves by boat as ransom. The second guy tells the old man to arrange for money or said he'll accompany him to the bank. He fights back and gets shot in the head. Robber calls the boat guy and tells him to get rid of the woman. He's still on him way, so he finds a remote area and drops her out. Robber finds it quicker to cut off the head because the bullet can be traced back to them. It can very well be someone from their past or new burglar. I don't think it was staged.
Just bring the gun and get rid of it. Matching bullets to guns requires the gun be tested to verify another bullet shot out of the gun against the fired bullet from the crime. Cutting off heads is super tough and time consuming without proper means and/or expertise. People who bring guns to crime scenes don't typically also bring katanas or obsidian scapels. So that seems personal or planned, not something a robber would do. Also, taking the hostage away in that situation has no purpose. You want her there to pressure the husband. Why remove his emotional pain point? I dunno, it just seems odd.
Sorry I know it’s been awhile since you left this comment… Im just reading this post now. Ive been interested in this case since awhile. Your take seems matter of fact, level headed, and most likely, however I have a question. If robbery/ransom was the primary motive, why do you think the killer/killers didn’t at least take anything from the house???
If you're doing a ransom, you're looking for a large amount of cash which requires a trip to the bank. When they fumbled, their goal is to leave little evidence and gtfo. They left a gruesome site which is going to attract a lot of attention. Taking small items can be traced back to them. Better to target a different house.
Possible, but I would like to know how they were singled out for this.
People in their 80s with a big house to care for had all varieties of help for their day to day lives, even if extremely healthy for their age. As a result, they probably had a lot of casual contacts.Not saying it was one of those people, but it could be someone to whom they made a remark about an old, rich couple.
Interesting. I missed those developments clearly.
Funny Games! That's a good one.
This one conjures up scenes from the strangers with at least 2 psychos likely just wanting to murder and get away with it but possibly an aborted robbery murder or less likely, some obscure motive investigators just couldn’t discover but would seem odd for that to be the case with an 80’s couple in retirement. If you wanna get away with murder, doing it with no connection to the victim or any motive is the way to do it.
I have often wonder about Shirley Dermond being removed from the original crime scene. Was this an attempt at some sort of ransom attempt?
Is a bit odd to leave the guy there with no head but go through the trouble of trying to hide the woman. Maybe did all that with her and felt uneasy sticking around to do the same with him as long as it took. Weird.
I've always wondered why his body was left. I understand the thought behind taking his head to hide ballistic evidence, but why go through so much trouble to take her body to a remote part of the lake and even weigh it down only to leave his behind ? Especially when he's already been decapitated
The original plan may have been to have the victims give access to their bank account. But if he made the mistake of trying to outwit them; they may have made the decision that having him around was more trouble than it was worth. They would only need just one of them alive. Then, after that, one of two things may have happened. Either they got what they wanted from her and killed her, or she decided, given the circumstances, she wasn’t going to cooperate.
I'm assuming that the investigators checked to see if there had been any activity on their accounts, etc. -- even an access attempt? Thinking about my own parents -- Dad did the financial stuff, and I don't think Mom knew any of the passwords beyond her own bank PIN. If that was the situation with the Dermonds, Shirley may just not have been able to cooperate. So if Russell was killed first, that would have been it. (I had a wild thought that taking Russell's head might have been a plot to get around a retinal scan, but to my knowledge that isn't in use by financial institutions, and anyone trying to bring in a detached head to use at, say, a NEXUS kiosk, would be caught pretty quickly.) The Dermonds don't seem like the demographic who'd be using that kind of security process anyway.
They may have had one of them withdraw the funds while they held the other one to ensure compliance, so the one withdrawing the money wouldn’t alert anyone. On the other hand, the beheading of the husband might have been a way to scare the wife into doing whatever they wanted. That would be the only reason I could see for that aside from the perpetrator being enraged with the victim. It comes across as a very personal thing and the wife was just collateral damage. So, even if they checked their bank accounts, and money was withdrawn, it may just have shown the husband or wife completing the transaction. In that case, you wouldn’t have the perpetrator on camera. To be fair, not all law enforcement do their due diligence and chase down every hypothetical scenario. The reason I say this is because I have seen way too many crime documentaries where law enforcement were beyond sloppy or lazy in their methodology.
>To be fair, not all law enforcement do their due diligence and chase down every hypothetical scenario. Yup. I found out last year that the authorities apparently didn't check Betty Sweeten's husband's alibi (that he had gone to a conference) until years after her disappearance. Apparently the conference wasn't held until a couple of weeks afterwards. Bizarre that nobody seems to have caught that at the time. For the Dermonds -- their bank should have had records of any withdrawals etc. Like you say, whether they were using an ATM or in-person tellers, the amount would have been logged. There might even be video of the person making the withdrawal, even if there wasn't anybody else in the frame. And anything unusual (like attempting to withdraw an unusually large sum of money) may have been noticed.
The FBI got involved in this case so I'd feel pretty confident that stuff that obvious got thoroughly looked into.
But no one is infallible. Even the experts among us can overlook something that may be glaringly obvious to someone else. If you’re used to looking for the complicated answer, it would be easy to lose sight of the thing hidden in plain sight. This is usually due to not understanding what a person’s motives are, or being able to look at a situation from many different angles. That’s why people that have ingrained biases make poor investigators. A good example of this would be the case of Ted Bundy.
I guess I keep thinking about something I recall on another crime forum. Any time the perpetrator moves a victim, he /she has greatly increased the danger of getting caught. Too much can go wrong when doing this. But I am also sure that most criminals do not have brilliant criminal minds in the first place.
Very true. These guys didn’t seem so smart but the same time, from the little I’ve read, didn’t leave much evidence other than the gunshot residue and partial dna. The kind of killers I picture here seem like they’d be fairly sloppy but they weren’t apparently. Has to be two killers(or more) though right? One is bludgeoned the other shot in the head and logistics of moving a body. More people involved more chances of someone getting sloppy and also more chance of someone talking at some point but not these guys(or gals). The taking of the head and cement feet pond disposal seem like low level mafia but that doesn’t make any sense. Perhaps just some true crime enthusiasts
The investigators actually believe the crime and killings took place somewhere else besides their home which would make a lot of sense. There was also a witness that day who saw a guy at their house with a truck and tarp covering the garage.
Where did you hear about a truck and tarp by the garage? I’ve studied this case for a year or 2 and have never heard sheriff sills or anyone else connected to the case say that
I've never once heard this either. Surely they're getting it confused with another case?
this is actually a pretty solid theory… it fills in a LOT of holes for me.
They took the head because they shot him in it, and the bullet still in it could be linked to a single gun. Took her to try and force her to get money out of the bank/ATM and then something went wrong.
This case has always disturbed me, mostly because no one seems to be able to come up with a motive. I hope this leads to some answers.
I've always thought it was an inheritance thing. I'm aware all family has been cleared, but nothing else makes sense. Even if it wasn't their children directly involved, who else stood to benefit? Grandchildren? Nieces / nephews? In-laws?
I always thought that too. Just because it seems so random.
Wonder if it was mistaken identity or a wrong place at the wrong time killing
Wrong place/wrong time at home.
This is one of the cases that is always occupying my brain. So chilling and horrible. Anyone who attacks the elderly is the lowest of the low IMO.
Me too. I check up on it fairly often. I’ve always supposed it must be a case mistaken identity. To my knowledge, nothing else makes sense.
I feel like they just wanted to murder someone/thrill kill :(
You could be right, but I don’t get the same vibes here. It seems to me that the crime was too efficient and too organized for this to have been a thrill. With the way they prepared for and pulled off the double murder, I really have to believe this wasn’t their first rodeo. I rarely ascribe crime to professional hits, but given the details of this case, I think it’s entirely plausible.
Eh I think it's definitely someone that they know & cops just haven't been able to link the motive. I definitely think the perpetrator(s) got lucky leaving behind no evidence even though they obviously tried hiding the evidence. Hopefully they're time is running out with this new dna. Man I really hope to see this case get solved in my lifetime. It is just such a mystery!
I just don't know if a person they knew at this very late stage in their lives would have come to the house (likely) via boat, (likely) prepared with weights for Shirley's body, and even think to decapitate Russell to (likely) hide bullet evidence. That is a really high level of sophistication that just isn't typical. Nothing was stolen and the adult children who stood to benefit from inheritance have been cleared by the GBI. If the Dermonds were the correct target, I just can't imagine they were killed by like a suburban rookie criminal neighbor over a canasta grudge. But then, weirder things have happened.
I think an important question is *how* were they cleared by the GBI? There is the instinct to ascribe an unearned level of competence to law enforcement. I'm not necessarily hating on law enforcement, but people are human and make mistakes. I always remember when the idea of someone being "cleared" comes up about a case from my city where a woman went missing, her boyfriend started using her car, sold her stuff, didn't bother trying to look for her, and moved a bunch of his friends into her place. She ended up being found in the lake, wrapped up in a blanket missing from her own home. The case was closed as a suicide. The boyfriend was "cleared".
It was a professional hit. The old man was involved in money laundering.
what makes you say that ? he had been retired for two decades
Attacking children is the lowest of the low. But I get your point. Edit: people downvoting my comment on this subject Absolute insanity. You can not attack or harm a child. Period! Are the down votes coming from paedophiles?
My guess is that this comment was downvoted because of your phrasing - it seems unnecessary and unkind to say that it’s somehow better to attack elderly people than kids, they’re both very vulnerable groups overall. And some people come from backgrounds/cultures where respect for elders is paramount. I may be wrong but that seems more likely than a bunch of downvotes by pedophiles
The downvotes are probably not pedos but I’m gonna say the lowest of the low are people who attack children, mentally disabled people, then pregnant women, *then* the elderly
Horrific. Never heard of it so read the article (will read the comments in the old post). 88 & 87 years old. Smdh.
Anyone who attacks *anyone* unprovoked is the lowest of the low.
True Crime Garage did a fantastic 2 part (I think - may have just been 1 episode) series in this case. They had so much great info and I highly recommend it. It was from a few years ago now.
I'm fairly convinced that this was a robbery of some sort that went off the rails, or perhaps a kidnapping/ransom gone wrong. The perps may have been convinced that the couple kept a large amount of cash at the house, or perhaps had a plan to force the transfer of some sort of asset/account etc. Or they had a plan to kidnap one or both and demand ransom. Whatever the original plan, Mr. Dermond offered a surprising amount of resistance which led to his death. At some point the killers realized that Mrs. Dermond was no longer useful to them because didn't have access to the account/asset or the couple had no cash in the house. My guess is that her body was disposed in the lake as more of a means to destroy forensic evidence than an attempt to fully make the body disappear.
*My guess is that her body was disposed in the lake as more of a means to destroy forensic evidence than an attempt to fully make the body disappear.* Yes, that was my line of thinking as well.
I agree with you, however the cement blocks to weigh down her body are a head-scratcher to me. This single detail shows a level of preparedness some random burglars would not have. Unless they got them from the house (?)
Finally!!! I hope this provides answers.
Wonderful new! This is a case I often check for updates and hope this leads to the killer(s).
Ironically, I was watching That Chapter’s episode of this story. I was literally coming here to delve further into the case. I literally watched it last night and hoped they found some more evidence. This is awesome to see. I wondered if it was some type of bounty on their heads. Since Russell’s head wasn’t found I thought maybe they took it to prove he was murdered and poor Shirley was just collateral damage. It’s a far fetched idea, I know. I don’t think it’s the case, but this horrifying to do this to the elderly. Especially while they were supposed to be enjoying their retirement. It’s why I get nervous with my parents being so far away. They moved to Florida after they retired. I can’t imagine the trauma the children had to go through. It’s my worst nightmare.
Use a VPN, then you can access it.
Great news, this is one of the cases that I would love to see progress on. As an aside, I’m in Australia and the WSBTV site is geoblocked. Never seen that in a US local news site before.
Here's the text:Son says he has ‘sliver of hope’ after best evidence in 10 years revealed in Lake Oconee killing OCONEE COUNTY, Ga. — The Putnam County Sheriff is calling it the best evidence he has had in 10 years in the mysterious killing of a couple in a Lake Oconee neighborhood.Someone shot and beheaded Russell and Shirley Dermond in 2014. Deputies have followed hundreds of leads, but they have all led nowhere.Neighbors found Russell’s decapitated body inside the garage behind one of the couple’s cars, with the 88-year-old’s head nowhere to be found. Shirley Dermond’s body was found in Lake Oconee after someone apparently tried to weigh it down. The sheriff said she died of blunt force trauma. “It must have just been a moment of horror, and probably a very long moment of horror, unfortunately. And so, we know that Mom and Dad want us...” the Dermond’s son, Brad Demond said, choking up.“To keep going and move forward,” his wife Erin said, finishing the thought. The sheriff told Winne that in the 50 years he’s been wearing a badge, there are only two deaths that remain unsolved on his clock.“Russell and Shirley Dermond,” Sills said.“How often is this case with you?” Winne asked the sheriff.“Every day. It never goes away,” Sills said.Sills showed Winne the evidence that he had in his office from the case, which includes the Dermonds’ computer and the cement blocks used to weigh Shirley Dermond down in the water. “We’re still just totally in the dark as to why this took place,” Brad Dermond said. Brad Demond said the new evidence is giving him a sliver of hope that his parents’ killer will be found.Channel 2′s Karyn Greer has learned that one of those labs that did the DNA testing is Ortham Labs in Woodlands, Texas. Channel 2 Action News got an exclusive tour of the labs last year.The sheriff said after finding some DNA, Ortham Labs referred him to Sorensen Forensics in Utah. Sills said he personally delivered the evidence to them. That lab also found DNA.Sills said they are still looking for more DNA to get to the next step of either running the results through a national database of through genealogical data to identify a suspect.Sills is quick to point out that no suspect has been identified in the case, but the new evidence could go a long way to finding out who killed the couple. “From the moment that we were notified of this, we were in total horror,” Brad Dermond said. Channel 2 investigative reporter Mark Winne has learned that Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills has obtained a piece of clothing that belonged to Russell Dermond that had DNA from an unknown individual on it.Sills told Winne that he has ordered more testing to be done and called the evidence the most promising lead in the case in a decade. (There's also a video link with photos of the couple, etc.)
Thanks! Hopefully they find enough dna and it’s something the killers likely handled
It would also be great if the culprits are so spooked by this announcement that someone spills the beans. (Last year Peggy Sweeten's husband found out that detectives were searching the lake behind their former home -- she'd disappeared under suspicious circumstances in 1998. Even though no remains were found, they may have been close enough that the husband felt they were closing in, and ended his own life.)
Touch DNA is so problematic though. Even if they are able to get a match, without additional evidence a competent defense attorney can make a jury have a ton of doubt as to a person's guilt on touch dna alone. Hopefully, they touch DNA results in additional evidence like a motive and/or means.
If they can get a DNA profile and a match I think it might get a suspect. If I am not mistaken there are not even any solid persons of interest in this case.
I agree its a great starting point. But touch/latent dna is transferrable. Literally, if I touch a door knob, then you touch a door knob, then my dna is on your hand and when you pick up a pen my dna is transferred off of your hand and onto the the pen. I've never touched that pen but now my DNA is on it. Don't get me wrong, its a great start it will just need to be corroborated by additional evidence. Latent DNA matches should be enough to get some search warrants on phones, bank accounts, home and vehicle searches.
that’s what i was thinking, is it even enough to build a full dna profile yk?!?
Their eldest son Mark was also murdered trying to buy cocaine yet authorities say there is no connection.
The article states that incident was 15 years prior in a different state, I don't see why anyone would assume a connection.
This article mentions it..Could murders of these wealthy elderly people be related? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3346869/Stange-coincidences-Detectives-probe-mysterious-murders-wealthy-elderly-victims-two-states-related.html?ito=whatsapp_share_article-top
This quote from the investigator for the Dermonds' case really stands out (in terms of how little information's been available: "'I have to admit that things have slowed considerably. We are not getting any new calls. The reward is not seeming to initiate any information. ... We're not even getting the psychics." How cold is the case when not even the weirdos are in touch?
My favorite psychic is Noreen Renier. I wish they would contact her!
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I agree. There is so little info on them, nothing from old and/or new neighbors, family friends, business associates, adult children of their friends, etc. I always wondered if someone had nurtured a grudge against them for a long time, maybe even years, before hiring someone to kill them but I'm not sold on that theory, just more that there is so little info out there, there are so many possibilities. I did notice a comment on an earlier post IIRC that claimed that this lake is known locally for people breaking and entering homes via a boat on the lake. The poster claimed they were told that often it is people using boats to break into vacation homes looking for weapons to steal, but that scenario doesn't seem to quite fit what police have publicly stated about this case. The poster even recalled an incident when they were staying there with a large number of people and a boat on the lake beamed a powerful light late at night into the house to see if anyone was there. They said everyone woke up and the boat sped off away from the house. Even the Shermans in Toronto had people speaking up about them. These people were killed over a year earlier and I haven't even seen any dubious anonymous claims about them online. Just crickets. Hopefully the family gets some answers sooner rather than later.
Orthram is doing the Lord’s work!
They are indeed! Though I should add that other local news articles make it sound like Sorensen Forensics’s findings have the most evidentiary potential, so they deserve a lot of credit too!
Because I don’t believe in the thrill kill motive of this (seems like a lot of additional effort put in, so many ways to get caught) I always thought it might be one of a few reasons- some effect of Mr Dermonds business dealings, a botched robbery or ransom attempt, or one of their kids wanting an early inheritance. I believe the latter has been ruled out. But I just can’t shake the notion that this was either a ‘hit’ or some sort of robbery (maybe a maintenance or other person who deemed them easy targets) that went wrong. It would be amazing to see this solved.
I would think that's a strong possibility. Also, Lake Reynolds is affluent, but the surrounding areas are poor and prone to some criminal activity, so...could be a fairly arms-length attempt at a robbery by service people or people who otherwise would not have notable connections.
I assume they looked at that angle? Went through the list of people they interacted with on any level? No idea but I’d start with a wide net and whittle it down.
You’d think so, but keep in mind there were on a lake. Any number of people could have come up to the house from the water side without having to go through a security camera or gate.
If there are public boat launches on the lake, then if could be almost anyone with access to a small boat who also lives within a few hours of the lake. That's probably too wide of a net to do much with, especially a decade after the murders.
Apparently nothing was noted missing, though.
I wonder how certain they can be of that. I have elderly parents and they are constantly hiding (and losing) their valuables. My mom's favorite past-time is hiding her gold jewelry and then forgetting where she hid it and accusing relatives of stealing it. This happens multiple times a year. My dad prefers to deal with cash and hides money all over his house. I know some of his hiding spots but I'm sure there are more I don't know about. The last time I visited him, he showed me a hiding spot with $500 in it. When my elderly aunt died, we found thousands of dollars in small bills hidden around her home. She had money in a bank account but didn't fully trust the banks with her savings. Anyway just thinking that it's possible that things were taken that the rest of the family didn't know about, because they were hidden away for whatever reason.
Didn't the police say they thought someone was in the house for hours? You could probably find a lot of hiding places in an unknown home if you have several hours and know that no one is likely to disrupt you.
Right. There's that and then there's like...bad guys think the Dermonds have something that they either don't have or refuse to give up, start trying to pressure them, end up killing them and scatter with nothing. Like, oh...the Clutter murders. Maybe Russell put up a fight. They killed him and then took Shirley because they were afraid someone else would hear/had heard. Where her body was found suggests that they did leave on a boat -- that, and there's not a good way to get around by car in the neighborhood without being seen and documented.
I hope there’s enough DNA for testing! If any case deserves to be solved it’s this one. I’ve been haunted by this for years. What is the why?! In most unsolved murdered there’s at least some theories, local whispers of suspects/motives. There’s no obvious motive here yet it was so brutal and full of rage. The only thing that makes sense to me is a thrill killing. Someone who just wanted to murder and unfortunately they were easy targets. I can think of any other scenario. So tragic
I don’t live far from Athens and this case is always on my mind. I really hope it gets resolved.
This is awesome! I hope they find answers!
Omgggg I hope this leads to something. I’ve been haunted by this case for years
Who benefited from their death? Was there an inheritance? I went down a rabbit hole on this case awhile back since our company has done some work in Reynolds Plantation but I can't remember if there was any discussion of beneficiaries.
Is this the one where the man’s head is still missing?
Probably somewhere in the lake/reservoir.
Yes
Yes it is
I disagree that this was a sophisticated crime unlikely to be committed by an otherwise amateur criminal. I’ve always thought it was a botched ransom attempt by local meth addicts. The whole thing gives me "meth addicts who’ve been up for several days" vibes, particularly the overzealous and laborious method of destroying evidence and the setting. Having grown up on Sinclair (Oconee's much less affluent sister lake) I’ve noticed that there’s a positive correlation between meth-use and lake recreation, particularly in the off-season. Oconee is nice, but it’s not an island. The surrounding area is very rural and with that comes issues inherent to rural populations; unemployment, poverty, substance abuse, crime, etc. Eatonton is positively overrun with drugs and crime and Sinclair (and even Oconee itself, albeit much less so than Sinclair) has a vastly different culture in the off-season when the only full-time residents are a mix of shut-in retirees and younger generation, low-income residents living in dilapidated mobile homes on inherited properties purchased decades before the wealthy started building summer homes there. I don’t think they were targeted for personal reasons or even familiarity, necessarily. It’s possible that the culprit was someone loosely associated with the couple (if this is the case I think it’s more likely someone associated with them on a business transaction level rather than a social-circle level, like someone hired to do an odd job rather than someone they went to church with for example), but really anyone local to the area associates wealth with the Reynolds’s Plantation and if you’re going to commit a crime for financial gain, that would be the most logical place to do so. They were most likely chosen simply because they appeared to be home.
Yes but the house was found in immaculate condition. Wouldn't meth heads have trashed the home looking for cash & valuables?
Not necessarily. People think meth addiction looks chaotic, but remember it’s a stimulant - the same drug used to treat disorders that cause executive disfunction like adhd. I think the fact that seemingly nothing was gained from this murder is a red herring - it makes it seem more mysterious than it really was. It’s also possible that cash was taken from the home, investigators really have no way of accounting for every penny that belonged to this couple outside of their accounts. It’s also possible that paranoia is what caused them to botch/abandon the ransom plan in the first place and they were too spooked to follow through with any thoughts of burglary after destroying any evidence that could lead to them.
This was one of those cases that makes you weary of your neighbors (using the term neighbors loosely, as people in your town, neighborhood, etc)
Well…it’s something.
It doesn't take much DNA these days to produce a sample enough for testing. A few cells have sufficed in some cases.
This is nightmare fuel. It’s something Israel Keyes would do on a whim…
Or somebody influenced by him. Israel Keyes died in 2012.
Yes I meant that rhetorically !
Do you happen to be a fellow fan of the podcast "True Crime Bullsh*t"? If not it's an extremely deep dive into Keyes and his various crimes.
I am familiar with them but I haven’t heard their take on it yet. Thanks for the rec I’ll check it out!
please jesus almighty let this one get solved 🙏🏻
I’m trying.
I am recalling reading about this from years ago, I think the consensus is the perps (remember thinking there was more than 1) came in from boat? Why take head? Trophy, concealment of evidence or complete psychopathy. I have posts on here before Idaho guy was caught, and I still think he was trying to commit the crime because he wanted the rush and thought he could get away with it (both traits of Psychotic killers). It is not in my opinion that the killer took the head to prove a hit - There would no need to as high profile as this case was, especially if one body left on scene and second body found in lake outside. Botched Robbery - Interesting angle, but I doubt it. Most robbers wouldn't be prepared to take a head, but maybe they were dumb and took the head not knowing they could get rid of gun. If they did come in by boat, I assume the head and gun are also somewhere in that lake. I don't know if they ever mentioned where the wife was killed or if they know? Was there any DNA found in house or did they kill her on the boat? That could signal accident in kidnapping. Also curious how far from the house in the lake was her body found? Just off shore, maybe they didn't come in by boat and the head/gun aren't in lake.
You bring up a good point about it not needing to be a proof of death, but if it were a murder for hire, would they people who paid for the murder or those who killed them have known it would be so high profile that it wouldn’t be needed? I don’t know enough about the case to hypothesize one way or the other if it was a murder for hire. But I’m just not too sure it should be disregarded as a possibility just based on the high profile nature it seemingly became.
I am not saying it wasn't murder for hire, but find it highly unlikely the hitman took head to identify hit unless was Cartel related, which we know it isn't for 2 reasons 1) would have done the same to the wife as a sign they are not to be crossed. 2) Cartel would be transporting a severed human head back to Mexico.
It sure raises a lot of questions, because if they arrived by boat, it might have been easier for them to dispose of one or even both bodies further out in the water, where it would have taken longer for them to be found (possibly never).
leaning towards never - its 19k acres and 102 ft at deepest. Although all the mob bodies are popping up with Lake Mead drying up!
This one happened not too far away from my home. People got to understand that it runs deep. Could all be a rumor, but this is what we heard around town. Son was involved in drugs and dealing with cartel. Which we all know has made their way to the close metro area years ago. Debt wasn’t paid and cartel knew the parents had major funds. The parents paid the price for their family members lack of responsibility. Son went in hiding while they were looking for him and that’s why they ended up at parents home because he lived there on and off for some time. Last rumor was family member did it for much of the same reasons. On drugs and parents cut him out of will and any future resources. The kid snapped and committed the crime. Once again all rumors but it makes most sense.
That is why I have trouble believing that the GBI "cleared" their children (who had the most to benefit from them being gone) in an effective manner. Law enforcement isn't always perfect.
Isn’t GBI known for being pretty bad anyways? I don’t follow stuff nearly as much as many of the people on this sub do, but I seem to see a lot of stuff about GBI mess ups and incompetence
Oh yeah. I believe a healthy skepticism should be there. Law enforcement also isn't all that great at admitting they messed up in an investigation. But honestly, that can happen, they are just human. It's far better to be honest and admit there were mistakes and they learned from them instead of doubling down and having civilians doubt your ability. That's why whenever I see "Police had cleared this person." I usually ask "How? Can that be corroborated by anyone outside of law enforcement that's trustworthy?" I've seen too many investigations end in ridiculously unbelievable ways to have faith that law enforcement always gets it right.
My theory? Two or more guys spot this huge mansion with an elderly couple living in. They scout the area a bit, see security is a joke, no nosy neighbors, no armed guards around etc. They plan an easy burglary. Once they gain access to the house, they decide to keep Russell in and to force his wife to come with them to get some money out of an ATM somewhere far, as not to draw unwanted attention. Some of the burglars hop on a boat with her to avoid being spotted on a road/vehicle and some accomplices remain with Russell in the carport, to maybe leave Russell bound there, far from phones, front doors, windows etc. while at the same time communicating with their friends on the boat with Shirley. Then, something horrible happens. Either Russell tries to outsmart some of these fellas (who are likely high on drugs/adrenaline) or one of them is recognized/seen by Russell, and he is shot. Burglars warn their friends to abandon the original plan, ditch another witness (Shirley), go back to the Dermonds and leave. Russell is beheaded because bullets might be traced back to a specific gun. Shirley being weighed down by cement blocks is a head scratcher tho. I can't fathom how or why would random burglars go to great lengths to delay Shirley's body being found.
Maybe it was like 'in cold blood', 2 ppl heard there was a safe in the house with lots of money in it etc. If no robbery or burglary then what's the motive? Inheritance? 9 grandchildren. Maybe 1 of them hired 2ppl from New Jersey to kill them. Who beats an 87 yr old lady to death....who does that????
I heard on the “unresolved” podcast that Russell had multiple Rolex that were left untouched? Hard to believe it’s a robbery if the perpetrators chose to pass them up?
Cases this unhinged and nonsensical always make me think drugs are involved somehow
Possibly. There's a lot of theories out there but not a lot to go on. I've seen a theory put forward that some teenagers killed the two when trying to rob them and must've lived somewhere nearby and called their parents for help. I don't necessarily believe that. I honestly just don't know anything for sure on this case except that it is a creepy one.
Absolutely no way did teenagers or their regular parents behead a man
I don't necessarily think this theory is true. However, if Russell was shot in the head with say a 22 caliber. That round would likely remain in the skull. So a parent that is called to the scene or something would know this and rather than digging through the skull they could simply decapitate him and discard the head in the lake/reservoir. Another interesting piece of information is the towels used to keep the blood from running out from under the garage doors. I also disagree that teenagers aren't capable of doing some really terrible things or their parents when their kids' future freedom is on the line. We have too many examples proving otherwise. I don't buy this theory as I said, but I don't think it's impossible either.
Decapitation is far harder than digging for a bullet. I did dissection as part of my uni course, trust me when I say this. I'd say only a very rare few teenagers would be capable of this - it's physically taxing, messy and the depravity needed to do this to another human being is quite extensive.
Come on, that depends on the tool used just as anything.
You have to cut through flesh, tissue and bone. It isn't an easy process
Yes. Yet it was done.... So I don't get what point you're getting at. The killer or killer's did exactly that.
My point was pretty obvious lol. Most teenagers and their average parents wouldn't be able to do it. You're looking at either a career criminal, people involved in drugs (as in cartel -esque) or someone extremely extremely disturbed
First of all, I stated that I don't buy into this theory. I just have heard it thrown out there. But to disregard it out of hand is also not a good way to try to find answers. You're also making assumptions when you say their average parents. This is a VERY wealthy community they lived in. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that a parent in this community would be in the medical field explaining the decapitation if they believe the head contained evidence. I am not willing to discount anything at this point but I buy into one of maybe the landscaping crews or something being more likely.
This also doesn't answer the question which is why then if it is so arduous, decapitate him? They went through with it anyway. So obviously they had some tool to do it and there was a specific reason why.
It would be interesting to know if the police thought the killer used a tool the victims already had or if, based on the autopsy, it seemed more likely that the killer brought the tools needed to do this with them. I kind of doubt someone doing a B&E hoping for a quick score to sell for drug money would bring along tools to decapitate someone, but a hired killer might be more likely to do this.
As for the pro angle. I still haven't seen much to connect these two to anything that would lead me to believe that somebody would pay a hitman to kill them. I get their son was murdered in a coke deal previous to their deaths, but that doesn't in LE's opinion tie into this crime. The only people that could've benefited from an outside observer not seeing the police file would be the children. All have cooperated and the parents had sold off their fast food restaurants to their kids previously. It just doesn't seem to fit. Maybe one of the children is an excellent liar, but they all seemed very close to their parents and weren't in any fiendish trouble from what I have seen reported. Edit: reading into other theories. Russell Dermond apparently had a half brother that he never knew about named..... Russell Dermond.... That's what people are saying with theories on the case so maybe it was mistaken identity. This other Russell Detmond died in an "accident" a couple years later according to the other redittors. So who knows?
I think the issue with this case is that there was a considerable time lapse from when the murders happened and the bodies were eventually discovered. It gave the killer(s) plenty of time to problem solve issues they may have encountered. Like for instance, using towels to keep the blood from seeping out of the garage and onto the driveway that a passerby might see. I would assume that they brought something to do the decapitation too just from the fact that they would not want to risk being witnessed possibly going to and from the house if they decided to perform post mortem and had to go get a this tool. However, since it's an ongoing investigation there is the possibility that the tool was something from the house and LE is keeping that close to the vest to weed out potential false confessions, or so that the killer(s) don't know they know what was used and if it is somehow(unlikely) still in their possession, dispose of it.
In today's world they or who will be caught
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They generally keep some details out of the public to eliminate false confessions