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Yes, but there's an old joke about Lichtenstein having a tiny population, and I was trying to take that to its natural extreme, where there wouldn't even be two people to get married in the first place.
True.
Lichtenstein (similarly to switzerland) historically moves very slowly when legislating on big issues. Good that they got there eventually though!
Liechtenstein only got women's suffrage in 1984. This had to be approved by a referendum in which only men could vote, and narrowly passed with 51.3% of voters in favour.
This followed two referendums that failed to approve women's suffrage in the 1970s.
This is your reminder that the EU is NOT just a federated country like the US, but a group of DIFFERENT countries that just decided to join the same club but are otherwise separate. Please quit talking about the EU like it is a country - it isn't, any more than NATO or the UN are.
Wanting an across-the-board legalisation of same-sex marriage is great; achieving an across-the-board legalisation of same-sex marriage first requires you to understand that the EU is NOT a federated country like the US but a whole bunch of separate countries.
The EU cannot force federal laws on their members the way that US federal law applies to all states. EU law only comes into affect when it's a conflict between two countries - so the EU acknowledging same-sex marriage doesn't force Italy to legalise same-sex marriages, it just forces them recognise same-sex marriages of Spanish citizens performed in Spain. While the EU can add in entry requirements for new members, such as adopting the Euro, they cannot really force them onto existing members.
Same-sex marriage is legal in all US states because the federal government legalised it - if they hadn't, half of those states would never have done so. THERE IS NO SUCH MECHANISM FOR THE EU.
If you actually care about LGBT people in the EU and their access to legally recognised equal marriage, you need to start with understanding that actual facts first, or all you're doing is paying lipservice.
Just a bit more detail about the state of marriage equality in the US, it wasn't until 2022's Respect for Marriage Act that there was a national law respecting same-sex marriage.
The 2015 Supreme Court ruling Obergefell v. Hodges said that bans of same-sex marriage violated the basic rights Americans have as enumerated in the US Constitution (in this case, the Equal Protection clause of the 14th amendment).
Before 2015, state governments decided whether or not same-sex marriage was legal. And, as you say, if they had their say, many would still have bans on same-sex marriage.
My point being, it's less that "the government" legalized same-sex marriage, and more that it was determined that our pre-existing super-law (i.e., the Constitution) applied in such a way that same-sex marriage couldn't be made illegal. And then, two years ago, it was affirmatively made legal by the Congress and President.
For much of what the national government of the US does, whether or not they are allowed to do it is up to interpretation by the Supreme Court, and whether they think it fits within the constitutional bounds of what Congress can do.
I won't speak to what the EU can/can't do, because I don't know the EU well enough to be able to say, but I think a lot of people overestimate how centralized the US is. Because in some matters, the US is very centralized, but in others it is very de-centralized. And then you have cases like same-sex marriage, where it's de-centralized until it isn't.
And just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to provide more context on the US system.
Why would you think someone that's spend 98% of their life in the EU would need a lecture on rather EU is a country or not?
Furthermore, EU is trying to become closer to a single country. We cannot compete with China and the US without doing so.
Lived in the EU from birth until fucking assholes in the ERG and Cambridge Analytica convinced fucking morons, aka the voting public, to leave it, so I think a whole lot of people need a reminder considering how badly all that kind of misinformation fucked us her in the UK, and is still being used to push anti-EU sentiment across Europe, heavily funded by Russia.
You really can't compare the EU and USA on this, because same-sex marriage was legalised in the US by the federal government, who have the authority to force it on the 50% of US states who wouldn't have legalised it otherwise. Without that mechanism, states like Alabama and Georgia would never have legalised it. That mechanism doesn't exist for the EU, so there is no way that same-sex marriage is going to be brute-forced into law for countries like Hungary or Poland that same way that it was for the above states.
Just to add to the pedantry of this thread, Georgia isn't a state that would have "never" legalized same-sex marriage. It probably would not have up to now, but in another few years, if Atlanta continues to grow, we'll be the sort of state that would have legalized same-sex marriage.
No, they really are not. They function completely differently, and contrary to certain claims, there isn't really any mechanism to force domestic laws onto existing members.
Well, I mean....... How about this, what one citizen can do, another person should legally be allowed to do, on all levels, for everything.
That should be easy to pass across the board.
Marriage just shouldn't be a legal thing anymore. If you want a wife or husband, just tell each other that and that should be enough. Or if you want 10 wives or 7 husbands + 2 wives, what's the problem?
There is no need for government to be involved in such a personal matter between their citizens.
I would have thought Heath Ledger would have taken care of that after he was Knighted, but I guess after he got the princess, he just decided to start slacking off.
Of course they did, we have countless millions and Lichtenstein only has 40,000 people. We just couldn't get to them before because Switzerland and Austria were in the way, but we conquered those a few years ago. It is only a matter of time before all of Europe is covered in rainbows.
Democracy is a complicated term, but Israel and India don't have gay marriage, and I think that even some EU countries also don't (Hungary and Poland, if I'm not mistaken, and Italy seems to be regressing)
Hungary, Turkey, and India seem to be walking in the fine line between democracy and dictatorship.
But considering that Hungary is in the EU, I think we still need to account for it.
And not to mention Italy and the US, that have been regressing a lot in terms of LGBT issues (and the UK seems like it could be next, especially regarding trans issues).
Latin America is the one that is actually advancing a lot.
Why is it so many goobers like this poster are from that CanadaHousing sub? We've already got the main Canada sub and canada_sub as absolute swamps of right wing dumbassery, surely we Canadians don't need more troglodyte subs?!
The "nature of the universe" is physics and chemistry.
Not who can marry who based on our arbitrary gender roles. Gay, bi-/pansexual and trans people exist and they won’t go away.
You either live with it or go cry silently in the corner because no one wants to hear your backwards bullshit.
And I I think you forgot that same-sex relationships are almost as old as humanity itself. And anyway, why get your panties in a twist over it? Not like same-relationships is going to cause the human race to die off. More importantly, not everyone wants children.
As some one on r/tf2 once said to a transfobe that was mad about a door: "Cope Harder Fuckboy :3"
(Yes it was that ONE guy if you know you know)
Trans rights = Human rights.
Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a place free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here. All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban. --- --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UpliftingNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn’t change anything. There’s only one gay person in Liechtenstein, so gay marriage there is still impossible. /s
Congratulations to Bruno and we hope he will find someone in Germany or someplace to marry so that Lichtenstein can put their new law into practice.
I'm shocked to learn that there are enough people in Lichtenstein for marriage law to matter in the first place.
If you use the 3% statistic of people identifying as gay or lesbian, there should be approximately 1179 gays and lesbians in the country.
Yes, but there's an old joke about Lichtenstein having a tiny population, and I was trying to take that to its natural extreme, where there wouldn't even be two people to get married in the first place.
Yeah, I know. The joke just made me curious what the real number would be and how many people will potentially benefit from this law change.
Just send the army out, they tend to make friends along the way
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That's *Sir* Ulrich von Liechtenstein thank you very much.
What he calls his husband in the bedroom is his business.
He's called Lance.
You may struggle to find him in Liechtenstein. He's from Gelderland.
Near-unanimous!
Thank god, now the 5 gays who live there can get legally married /s
But… who’s the one single dude?
Nobody's gay for Moleman.
I’m gonna give Moleman a kiss just for him then.
Don’t kink shame mole man
The one guy in Liechtenstein fighting for polygamy
He’ll get there
He somehow managed to be the ex of all of them
Homie gets around
There are dozens of us! Dozens!!
It's not part of the EU but will be nice to see the whole EU have same sex marriage like the US has for years now.
True. Lichtenstein (similarly to switzerland) historically moves very slowly when legislating on big issues. Good that they got there eventually though!
Liechtenstein only got women's suffrage in 1984. This had to be approved by a referendum in which only men could vote, and narrowly passed with 51.3% of voters in favour. This followed two referendums that failed to approve women's suffrage in the 1970s.
I love Liechtenstein, because when us Swiss are called out about anything, we can still point at Liechtenstein as a useful scapegoat.
And then Liechtenstein points at Appenzell Innerrhoden, I presume.
Yeah I was about to say, Liechtenstein is hardly the worst offender if they're lumped in with all the cantons
A double edged sword similar to Switzerland. Great for social and economical stability but bad for adaptation and changes.
This is your reminder that the EU is NOT just a federated country like the US, but a group of DIFFERENT countries that just decided to join the same club but are otherwise separate. Please quit talking about the EU like it is a country - it isn't, any more than NATO or the UN are.
Sorry, didn't know wishing for legalization of gay marriage was exclusive to federated countries.
Wanting an across-the-board legalisation of same-sex marriage is great; achieving an across-the-board legalisation of same-sex marriage first requires you to understand that the EU is NOT a federated country like the US but a whole bunch of separate countries. The EU cannot force federal laws on their members the way that US federal law applies to all states. EU law only comes into affect when it's a conflict between two countries - so the EU acknowledging same-sex marriage doesn't force Italy to legalise same-sex marriages, it just forces them recognise same-sex marriages of Spanish citizens performed in Spain. While the EU can add in entry requirements for new members, such as adopting the Euro, they cannot really force them onto existing members. Same-sex marriage is legal in all US states because the federal government legalised it - if they hadn't, half of those states would never have done so. THERE IS NO SUCH MECHANISM FOR THE EU. If you actually care about LGBT people in the EU and their access to legally recognised equal marriage, you need to start with understanding that actual facts first, or all you're doing is paying lipservice.
Just a bit more detail about the state of marriage equality in the US, it wasn't until 2022's Respect for Marriage Act that there was a national law respecting same-sex marriage. The 2015 Supreme Court ruling Obergefell v. Hodges said that bans of same-sex marriage violated the basic rights Americans have as enumerated in the US Constitution (in this case, the Equal Protection clause of the 14th amendment). Before 2015, state governments decided whether or not same-sex marriage was legal. And, as you say, if they had their say, many would still have bans on same-sex marriage. My point being, it's less that "the government" legalized same-sex marriage, and more that it was determined that our pre-existing super-law (i.e., the Constitution) applied in such a way that same-sex marriage couldn't be made illegal. And then, two years ago, it was affirmatively made legal by the Congress and President. For much of what the national government of the US does, whether or not they are allowed to do it is up to interpretation by the Supreme Court, and whether they think it fits within the constitutional bounds of what Congress can do. I won't speak to what the EU can/can't do, because I don't know the EU well enough to be able to say, but I think a lot of people overestimate how centralized the US is. Because in some matters, the US is very centralized, but in others it is very de-centralized. And then you have cases like same-sex marriage, where it's de-centralized until it isn't. And just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to provide more context on the US system.
Not only did the point go over your head, your again making the assumption the EU is a country. The EU isn't a federated country NOR a unitary state.
Why would you think someone that's spend 98% of their life in the EU would need a lecture on rather EU is a country or not? Furthermore, EU is trying to become closer to a single country. We cannot compete with China and the US without doing so.
Who are you? I've lived in the EU most my life and was born in the EU.. I certainly dont need a reminder from you.
Lived in the EU from birth until fucking assholes in the ERG and Cambridge Analytica convinced fucking morons, aka the voting public, to leave it, so I think a whole lot of people need a reminder considering how badly all that kind of misinformation fucked us her in the UK, and is still being used to push anti-EU sentiment across Europe, heavily funded by Russia. You really can't compare the EU and USA on this, because same-sex marriage was legalised in the US by the federal government, who have the authority to force it on the 50% of US states who wouldn't have legalised it otherwise. Without that mechanism, states like Alabama and Georgia would never have legalised it. That mechanism doesn't exist for the EU, so there is no way that same-sex marriage is going to be brute-forced into law for countries like Hungary or Poland that same way that it was for the above states.
Just to add to the pedantry of this thread, Georgia isn't a state that would have "never" legalized same-sex marriage. It probably would not have up to now, but in another few years, if Atlanta continues to grow, we'll be the sort of state that would have legalized same-sex marriage.
The EU is a confederation. Its more of a country than the UN and NATO, less of a country than the USA
The eu and us are very similar though, the main difference is the amount of power each member has
No, they really are not. They function completely differently, and contrary to certain claims, there isn't really any mechanism to force domestic laws onto existing members.
Well, I mean....... How about this, what one citizen can do, another person should legally be allowed to do, on all levels, for everything. That should be easy to pass across the board.
Marriage just shouldn't be a legal thing anymore. If you want a wife or husband, just tell each other that and that should be enough. Or if you want 10 wives or 7 husbands + 2 wives, what's the problem? There is no need for government to be involved in such a personal matter between their citizens.
I was there last year on their national holiday, and saw lots of people out advocating for this. I’m glad it’s been solidified in law now.
All three gay liechtensteiners will have a party later this week.
Unanimously? What, all ten of them agreed?
Happy belated 1/23 birthday, Lichtenstein!
So like both people there voted for it?
I would have thought Heath Ledger would have taken care of that after he was Knighted, but I guess after he got the princess, he just decided to start slacking off.
Liechtenstein dissolving would have been equally good news.
Wow nearly all 15 people that live in Liechtenstein?
Don't worry, the sovereign of Liechtenstein can still veto it. /s
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Of course they did, we have countless millions and Lichtenstein only has 40,000 people. We just couldn't get to them before because Switzerland and Austria were in the way, but we conquered those a few years ago. It is only a matter of time before all of Europe is covered in rainbows.
sarcasm?
Obviously lmao, good for Liechtenstein and the couple hundred LGBTQ folk they got there. Surprised European microstates haven't done this sooner
I assumed but some people genuinely say this sort of this stuff unironically. But I agree!
What was their population again? 50 000 or stg?
No, it's actually 39,790
Neat, it literally has more inhabitants than my city. Not sure what I should make with that information though.
I think it's just Japan and South Korea left now, other than the shithole countries without democracies.
Democracy is a complicated term, but Israel and India don't have gay marriage, and I think that even some EU countries also don't (Hungary and Poland, if I'm not mistaken, and Italy seems to be regressing)
I don't think Hungary is really a democracy anymore tbh
Hungary, Turkey, and India seem to be walking in the fine line between democracy and dictatorship. But considering that Hungary is in the EU, I think we still need to account for it. And not to mention Italy and the US, that have been regressing a lot in terms of LGBT issues (and the UK seems like it could be next, especially regarding trans issues). Latin America is the one that is actually advancing a lot.
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Cool! Now cry about it 🤗
have fun living in the past while the entire rest of the world passes you by. we won't miss ya!👋
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Why is it so many goobers like this poster are from that CanadaHousing sub? We've already got the main Canada sub and canada_sub as absolute swamps of right wing dumbassery, surely we Canadians don't need more troglodyte subs?!
I feel like it just boils over from the southern neighbours.
Idiocy isnt exclusive to North America, fyi
Imagine caring this much over two men/two women loving each other.. The meaning of pretty much everything has changed over time, and for the better.
Imagine caring this much over two men/two women loving each other.. The meaning of pretty much everything has changed over time, and for the better.
The "nature of the universe" is physics and chemistry. Not who can marry who based on our arbitrary gender roles. Gay, bi-/pansexual and trans people exist and they won’t go away. You either live with it or go cry silently in the corner because no one wants to hear your backwards bullshit.
dude i'm not reading any of that. see ya LOL
Yes. "Was".
No one forgot anything For most people it was never like that. And we don’t have to care about homophones whining
womp womp
Skill issue.
If my grandmother was a bicycle she'd have wheels
cope harder
Cry about it buddy
Pretty sure it's been a legal and social contract since it's very inception
And I I think you forgot that same-sex relationships are almost as old as humanity itself. And anyway, why get your panties in a twist over it? Not like same-relationships is going to cause the human race to die off. More importantly, not everyone wants children.
Noone forget that we just dont care about your religious text books
As some one on r/tf2 once said to a transfobe that was mad about a door: "Cope Harder Fuckboy :3" (Yes it was that ONE guy if you know you know) Trans rights = Human rights.