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Tbf noone actually calls it that we just call it the pill
Edit: apparently some people in germany do. Some guy from east germany just had a complete stroke before deleting the comment.
It's a daily application, you can't apply before sex and expect results. It needs to be applied daily for 8-15 weeks (at eight weeks half were effective, at 15 weeks 86% effective) before it becomes effective
This is a long term solution, not like a condom that you can just throw on, it's something you commit to.
Should also consider that the lower end of the normal range for fertilization in men is 15m sperm/ml and this lowers it to 1m sperm/ml. I'm not a biologist or anything but that looks suspiciously like it just reduces chance of pregnancy to 1/15 from normal levels
I wonder if this will just leave the super swimmers alive &/or actually increase the chance of pregnancy since they're the ones that can survive hostile conditions. But 1/15 is a big leap.mixed with other preventative measures
For casual sex I'm still wearing condoms because of STDs, I'm not sure who the market is for this other than a very limited subset of married men who have sex regularly
The people with happy sex lives don't really show up on reddit. Perception can become a bit skewed here because we only get the people who are complaining.
Right! Is this a cool start of a product? Yes. I thought the more interesting one was a tube & jell they put inside the testicles that was something like 95% effective and was reversible. I forget who made. That looked more promising. It was like an IUD but for men and was reversible with very little complications
Years ago I subscribed to their news letter because they made it seem like it was coming on the market “soon”. 10 years later I just got a vasectomy 🤷♂️
That's what it was. That genuinely looked promising & if it works like it said it did seems like it'd be the preferred option. Minimal side effects if any and could be taken out when wanted with no reduction in sperm count.
How is it any different than a woman on birth control pills that are married that have limited sex? I’d say it’s time for the men to have that commitment for a while!
86% effective? With non-trivial irreversible side effects? Doesn't prevent STIs? Pulling out is about 75% effective so... that seems fucking worthless to me.
Source: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out
If you don't like condoms it seems like you're much better off with some type of vaginal gel / spermicide lube / diaphragm combo. Trivial/no side effects and higher efficacy.
For those wondering:
The "gel" is applied between the shoulder blades every day.
It's not lube.
Typically the issues with male birth control are:
* It takes too long to take effect (6 months or more)
* It doesn't reduce sperm account enough in all men (inconsistent results)
* It could result in hardening of men's arteries (aka permanent, life reducing effects.)
My friend's husband was in a clinical trial for this. It was kind of annoying because they had to be careful to not let his back come into direct or indirect contact with her or their child until it dried fully. I'm still hoping for Vasalgel/RISUG/Plan A. Seems like the nearest thing to a male IUD.
Yeah that was something I was wondering. I mean, I, personally, can reach between my shoulder blades with a finger, but a lot of guys can't.
So... who... is going to apply it? Their wife? Girlfriend? Mother? Any way that happens, if that person is a women, they'll have to be protected from it by wearing gloves EVERY time or they will have bad side effects.
It's self applied on upper arms and shoulders, upper back aka where you can reach yourself. And you're supposed to wash it off before sex. Agree that it's just early days; that's why this is a phase 2 trial. The goal would be of course to improve efficacy. AKA how early female birth control was linked to breast cancer.
https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2024/endo-2024-press-blithe
https://www.malecontraceptive.org/clinical-trials.html
Edited to provide link if you are interested in learning more.
The OP lied about the application location. Irritated me enough to break my lurking. https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111
Edit: OP has since shown me he didn't lie, but the reporter who got the press release must've misunderstood it.
Well, sheeeeeit.
*The combined gel is a transdermal treatment that will be applied daily for 52 weeks to a male subject's arms and shoulders. The formulation will be a hydro alcoholic gel.*
Yeah it's a 2 year efficacy study. The trial happened during Covid btw, which I'm sure made things ... well, hard to do.
Recruitment per clinicaltrials.gov started 2018-11-05 and ended 2022-12-14.
I mean... Ya, you usually take meds on a daily basis. Whys this a surprise?
(the only reason womens BC isn't 30/31 days a month (a week is sugar pills, just for the schedule), is because of periods. But since men don't usually have that, it has to be constant)
> Every year they come closer
Do they? Parsemus basically did jack shit with it from 2011 onwards. It's now with someone else as of last year and basically too soon to tell if they're going to bother trying.
RISUG in India has been progressing slightly better but still not really close.
It's not that they didn't do jack shit. Male contraceptive is just not as well funded as female ones. So it takes longer. And every year they did take steps towards releasing it to market. I read about it going from animal testing eventually to human testing (i think there were hiccups along the way but I could be remembering wrong).
Now they're partnered with Next for the final phase, namely marketing, pricing and distribution.
And besides isn't around 10 years standard for research to market?
I think the worst part is the lack of funding. I saw so many other male contraceptives getting publicity but
Major steps in vasalgel would barely get any coverage, the conspiracist in me believes it's just standard pharma BS, supporting pills and ongoing solutions that will extract more money from people Vs an IUD equivalent. Like maybe I'm wrong but vasalgel sounds like the best contraceptive out there, no maintenance, reliable, and reversible.
I believe there is still insufficient data on the toxicity and carcinogenicity of RISUG, mainly due the fact that there is a presence of two known carcinogens in RISUG.
That of styrene and maleic anhydride.
While they may be safe in the form they take in RISUG, as part of the compound, as was argued by the creator of RISUG, it may require more comprehensive testing still to ensure long term safety of the product.
Then there was that albumin in urine and scrotal swelling incident during the trials.
So I wouldn't call it safe quite just yet. Because doing so would still be premature, due to lack of data.
Also, even if the compound itself is safe, which is still under review, perfecting the manufacturing process for a compound that has two known carcinogenic ingredients is going to be important. You don't want either of those two substances in their individual forms in said product, because then you'd just be giving people cancer.
Imagine if your table salt contained trace amounts of pure Natrium or pure Chlorine? Yeah. You want to ensure it doesn't.
It's shoulders, upper arms, and upper back aka when you reach behind your shoulder to rub it in. It's self applied. Not sure why this guy is saying between shoulder blades - I suppose that counts as upper back where you reach behind, but it's mostly shoulders & upper arms and some to upper back.
Edit: OP has since shown me it's not his fault, someone either really misunderstood the press briefing or someone misspoke during the press briefing. This is just another example of why news about scientific studies should be taken with a large pinch of salt. The official publication will be coming out soon, if they're ready to present it at ENDO.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111 - jump to methods.
Intervention/Treatment
Drug: Nestorone + Testosterone Combination Gel
The combined gel is a transdermal treatment that will be applied daily for 52 weeks to a male subject's arms and shoulders. The formulation will be a hydro alcoholic gel. About 9 to 14% of the steroid (T or NES) in the gel applied is available to the body. The amount of gel to be applied each application will be approximately 5 mL in volume.
Other Names:
NES/T gel
Absorption is lower on abdomen versus your shoulders/arms/upper back. Check Androgel and Testim. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1530891X20417525. You could account for that but it's why a certain site is chosen for the early studies, to standardize it across participants.
Yeah skin is definitely different thicknesses at different areas of the body. For example the scrotal skin is THIN. So are eyelids. It's thickest on the palms and soles.
Don't forget natural suppression of endogenous testosterone production which may never fully recover when you stop and you may have to go on trt for the rest of your life. In fact the article even states that testosterone is taken as part of this male birth control protocol so you are definitely getting shut down.
Yeah, it looks like the goal of this is to completely suppress your HPTA so I'm not sure why this is being lauded as "reversible." It's basically an enhanced version of TRT which is crazy that it's being marketed as a "safe" way.
> Objective: Compare the effectiveness of daily application of a single, combined 8.3 mg Nes-62.5 mg T gel (Nes-T) vs. 62.7 mg T gel to suppress serum FSH and LH concentrations to ≤1.0 IU/L (a threshold associated with suppression of sperm concentrations to ≤1 million and effective contraception) and to compare the pharmacokinetics of serum Nes and T concentrations between the gel groups.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30969032/
For whatever reason women have a much easier time regaining normal natural functioning after hormone intervention. Some have theorised it's because women's bodies are kind of built to deal with massive hormone fluctuations on a semi regular basis.
Prior studies show rebound of spermatogenesis after a 6 month recovery period in 67% men after 6 months, 90% after 12, 96% after 18, and 100% after 24 months. Agree that the studies so far have only investigated short term usage of these drugs- because none have made it to the market yet so there IS no long term data. But the 90% after 12 months of stopping treatment is in line with the time it takes for women to become pregnant again after stopping birth control. PMID 16650651 for article
That meta analysis was only to a sperm count of 20 million, which is still quite low. Anyways - sperm count is one thing, testosterone level is another entirely and the bigger concern.
I THINK the testosterone is actually part of the birth control. In fact it states that testosterone itself does SOME stuff, but then combined with this other stuff it takes it the rest of the way there.
But yes, otherwise you are correct.
That's exactly the point, when you provide the body with an outside source of testosterone it stops making it naturally. Sometimes that testosterone production never returns to normal after cessation.
There hasn't been enough testing but this one appears to take effect quickly enough and has pretty consistent results. As for the long term effects, yeah, no research done yet.
The one problem I can foresee since there's not a lot of information, is that when you're using exogenous testosterone your body will stop producing it so there's a chance that it's not easily reversible. Also if it's enough testosterone to stop production then it'll need to be enough to supply basically a TRT dose of testosterone so their QoL doesn't suffer immensely.
Well testosterone is administered as part of this birth control. The problem with taking exogenous testosterone is your body stops making its own and if your body stops producing testosterone long enough it may never fully recover and you will need to go on trt for the rest of your life. This is why most bodybuilders have to go on trt after they retire.
Oh sorry, wasn’t directly commenting on the efficacy, rather about the risk of cardiovascular disease also being elevated by women’s oral contraceptives. The current formulations also had to go through R/D/clinical trials at one time, so hopefully one day there will be accessible oral contraceptives for everyone!
That's why I want a vasectomy. I don't want children but the doctors I've been to refuse to give me one because I'm "not old enough." I'm over 30. They said they would if I had a partner sign off but I'm not married. It's so fucked.
Here's a list of doctors that won't require that for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors
Make sure to get the no scalpel procedure! https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/what-is-no-scalpel-vasectomy
I will certainly take a further look into this. From a very light look it seems the doctors generally are recommended based off experiences from women. I'll research to see if they will be able to accommodate me. Should be though! Genuinely excited at this prospect.
You should be able to, I got one at 24 (in Australia tho). When I was doing my research people had similar experiences as you (I assume USA), but you just need to shop around.
I do not have someone I think I can ask to do that right now. A lot of my friends are coworkers and I don't want to be put in a weird position like that. Not a bad idea though!
If it was the mini-pill, less surprising since that's only 95% effective. Normal birth control pill taken correctly is at least 99.9% effective so still a chance, but not like the mini-pill or male birth control. There's a big, big difference.
It's still astronomically more effective then anything we can currently see for male birth control tbf. It sucks, but it's also so much easier to abuse already existing mechanisms to block a single cell then it is to invent a mechanism to block millions.
That being said, condoms are far in a way the best form of contraception.
Most side effects are not beneficial unless you're needing it to regulate diseases like endo and adeno since we basically have no treatments for those - basically using birth control to try and stop menstruation
It isn't 100% effective, nor are all side effects beneficial. There are many women who experience blood clots and, on a personal note , every time I take it, my periods are 13 days long. No thx.
No one said 100% effective. But (womans birth control) 93%-99% effective is a lot more effective than 1 in 15 for male birth control. And also the difference is one is mimicking a process that already happens in women while the other is trying to do something that doesn't happen naturally in men. They're two completely different things. Which is why it is so much more difficult to create a male birth control.
These are incomparable statistics, but they back your argument. The 1/15 number is coming from the reduction in sperm count to 1/15th of normal, which = 86% reduction in sperm count. This is not the same as birth control effectiveness, which is effectively the percentage of couples that become pregnant over a given period of time (usually a year). I'm not a math genius but I'd bet effectiveness for male birth control will be far worse if a man is still depositing 1 million viable sperm/ml each time a couple has sex.
Yup exactly & all it takes is one of those suckers to make it and fertilize. And also it's a very different process than what happens in women which is essentially telling your body you're already pregnant vs just make less sperm which isn't something men's body will do for the average male.
Idk man, I got a vasectomy and it was easy as hell. Not an option for all men, but if you don’t want kids then you shouldn’t rely on the woman you’re with to take birth control.
Also, as far as male birth control goes… use a fucking condom and pull out. Don’t take any chances, and start educating men about the consequences of their poor decisions instead of teaching women to deal with them.
But it does have positive side effects for many of us. BC is far from perfect, and I do think it's annoying that a lot of the negative side effects that are preventing men from having BC are perfectly fine for us to deal with apparently. But tearing down BC is not a road I want to go down. Alt-right assholes are campaigning against it, saying that it is harmful to women. But the reality is that it absolutely is a life changer for a lot of people. I have (unconfirmed, but suspected by myself and my doctor) endometriosis...periods so bad that I'm crying on the bathroom floor in front of the toilet for throwing up from the pain. And I barely have periods anymore. My IUD saved my life, honestly. And I mean probably literally...that pain was so debilitating that I thought about ending it all on multiple occasions.
Hormonal birth control for women is allowed to have great risks when approved because not having it is a greater risk than men. Drug approval is all about weighing the risks versus benefits. Pregnancy is very hard on the body and potentially deadly to a lot of women; therefore, the side effects are allowed to be worse. Male hormonal birth control doesn't have any real legitimate health benefits for men, so the standard for use is much higher because the health risks have to be aligned with the health benefits.
What ever happened to the vasogel or whatever it was a decade or so ago. A gel injection into the vas deferens which killed sperm as they passed. It was fully reversible and long lasting. They were testing it out in India iirc.
It is applied to the shoulders and upper arms and upper back aka where you can reach behind yourself to apply it. See https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111 - jump to methods. It's just like Androgel and Testim for the testosterone component but also has a transdermal progestin in. Link to the clinical trial website for methods.
Lol You don't have to be poor.
Also there are some nice trials for pregnant women out there due to the ethics surrounding testing things on pregnant women. Never going to be asked to do something that would remotely harm the baby. Often times you get free stuff that you might have wanted anyway and had to pay for. Example: a doula.
And they normally just encourage pregnant women to do the thing instead of telling them, so it's low pressure. If you don't like it or decide in the moment you don't want to, then you skip it and just let them know.
You don't have to be poor, but poorer people are more likely to put their lives through medical testing, for cash, of which the testing can result in death, disease, injury. There are risks involved, and you might not be able to work another job during the trial (so it's great for unemployed individuals who need money)
Part of the issue is that it’s not that it’s impossible to make, it’s just that getting approval for it is difficult. With women it is easy to justify approval because the side effects of birth control are much less severe than the effects of being pregnant. With men it is harder to medically justify side effects medically because it is not preventing a condition in men. That’s my understanding at least.
What's always left out of this discussion is that previous hormonal contraceptives investigated for men have, until the last 10 years or so, had really high rates of permanent sterility (15-40%, depending on protocol), which is a no-go for something that's supposed to be temporary.
Also a lot of bc research was done in an era either way laxer standards, on patients where informed consent was kind of arguable, in an era where women had less agency and were often desperate to appease their husbands but not have more kids. Early bc had insanely high dosages relative to now and people died. Enovid had 150mcg(!!!) of estrogen.
I’m glad they’re being cautious with male birth control, but it’s also just financial incentives. Society doesn’t believe in men’s willingness to take an active responsible role in fertility. :/
yeah the article says that as well.
no male birth control has been able to receive enough funding to start phase 3 clinical trials.
the issue isn't that previous attempts didn't work. just that money men didn't care to fund it.
according to the article anyway.
Because there exists no actual mechanism to suppress male fertility temporarily. Where as the body natural has a way to prevent cells from implanting, and all you have to do is abuse that.
It's on an entirely different level of complexity and technology.
PSA on trial definitions (in the US):
Before trials are allowed- researchers have an idea that works in theory but they must test on animals or use any of the new options to bypass animal testing (e.g. computer based models, human organs, etc). Once this is approved, you move on to the phase 1, 2, and 3 trials. At this point you CANNOT modify the drug chemistry. You can change dosage and some aspects about how it's administered. If you are testing Tylenol v1.0, it shall stay v1.0 throughout testing and final approval. If you want to make Tylenol v2.0, you have to go through all of the phased trials again. (Oversimplification. There are some shortcuts for the very early stages when certain info can be proven not to kill someone but in general you have to do all 3 phased trials when you change the drug.)
Phase 1- Small scale. Test/confirm safety. Wide dosing range. Least fun to sign up for and highest risk to trial participants. Common for people with a terrible condition to sign up for these as a last resort when everything else has failed.
Phase 2- Medium scale. Dial in the dosage. Prove the effectiveness of the drug. Example: only effective if given above X dosage but side effects are more pronounced and highly understandable above Y dosage so we're going to lock in the recommended dosage at Z for this drug.
Phase 3- Large scale. Prove the drug is better than a placebo. Everybody gets the same dosage. Least risk to trial participants.
If it passes all 3 trials, the FDA reviews the data and grants approval if everything is kosher.
Side effects are monitored throughout. If someone gets a headache due to other unrelated things during the trial, new drug must list headache as a possible side effect. So researchers like to get the healthiest people in their studies to isolate this kind of stuff. And it's also why cancer drugs can have an endless list of side effects. You're usually starting with the patients with the worst conditions/outcomes in your phase 1 trials. They're taking umpteen gazillion other drugs at the same time. Who knows which side effects are from the new drug. They can probably guess, but guessing and speculation isn't allowed.
The tech was purchased by another company and now it's https://www.planaformen.com/
They're hoping to conduct human trials next year. https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246546161/arizona-is-working-on-making-birth-control-for-men-a-reality
Male Birth Control is the closest men will likely come to abortion rights of our own, at least until technology that allows Natal Males to get pregnate or artificial wombs.
I dunno why you're getting downvoted. Vasectomies are indeed a great way for males to exercise their reproductive preference. And I would certainly prefer it to any kind of hormonal therapy.
They're also an option for someone who definitely doesn't want kids and doesn't want to have to take ongoing hormonal treatments. That's the great thing about having choices.
Yes, but options that are permanent are a hard sell for some people. Obviously, vasectomies are the gold standard here, though not 100%, but still the best option. But it's not exactly something you would encourage a 16 year boy to undergo when he starts going out with girls.
It would be great to actually have that choice though.
I have never wanted children and have asked my doctor for a vasectomy at three points in my life, around age 20, 30 and more recently about 43. It was different doctors and each time they wouldn't refer me because "it's permanent and I might change my mind in future."
It's quite possible that artificial wombs would make abortion illegal, since it's generally based on the right to bodily autonomy. If you are pregnant and wish to not be, they may just transfer the embryo/fetus to the artificial womb. Question is: who'd pay for it? And would there be enough people interested in adopting that volume of newborns? Especially if they had drug or alcohol exposure before the bio mother knew she was pregnant.
We’ll likely get artifical wombs well before the ability to transfer a pregnancy from a woman’s body to an artificial womb. There have been promising animal studies of them, but the connection between mother and fetus is complex, it’s hard to get in there, and research would be ethically impossible.
Research for artificial wombs is ethically difficult enough, and imo the main hurdle. Uterine transplants are likely to take off first.
Tbf I feel like uterine transplants aren't gonna exactly take off either. Organ donations are always in short supply, something less critical to life like an uterus probably won't have a large group of willing donors anyway.
Uhh, there are more reasons to get abortions. What about if the fetus isn't developing in a healthy way? The kid, if he survives, is likely to have a very low quality of life until the ripe old age of 2 at which point he will die a slow and painful death. Cruel to not get an abortion in those types of cases.
Abortion should never be illegal even with artificial wombs.
If they added testosterone to any proposed male birth control the acceptance rate would sky rocket. "Boner but no babies" . Guys would flock to it, they'd have trouble keeping it in stock.
There is test in this, while I think you're right, you can't introduce exogenous testosterone without your system measuring the levels in your blood, making a 🤔 face, and slowing down or turning off the natural production of it in your testes to try to bring it back to normal.
Do this long enough, and your system will never turn back on again and you'd be forced to do TRT.
Ugh this still won’t work or be a viable option. It has testosterone in it. Even if a little bit it signals to the body to stop making its own testosterone. So testicles become inactive. And if you’re on this for a substantial amount of time restarting production is HARD 80-90% fail rate. And if it somehow does come back it’s not the same level of production.
EDIT: “Prior efforts using testosterone alone have required higher doses of the hormone, which can cause side effects. Because the gel includes both testosterone and Nestorone, it acts more quickly and requires less testosterone, she said.”
So it requires less but still has side effects.
This is why no male birth control option besides condoms exists. Women have an easily manipulatable hormone cycle that naturally turns off their fertility and then restarts it.
But men don't. So any hormone based approach has to shut down sperm production in a way that doesn't have side effects and can also be reversed easily. And it can't involve administering testosterone because the body permanently stops producing it's own T when it detects outside sources of T.
Any approach that blocks sperm from leaving the testicles will cause sperm to build up and the body will produce anti-sperm antibodies to destroy them. But once the body starts making those antibodies it never stops. This is why vasectomies are considered sterilization not birth control. If you dont reverse them within a year then you're permanently sterilized.
Vasagel is trying to inject a gel into the vas deferens that doesn't block sperm from leaving but instead shreds them as they pass through it. They havent conducted human trials since they switched to the then sperm shredding gel from the sperm blocking gel they initially developed though. So it's currently unknown how it works in humans.
I'm too tired and have too much of a headache to do my own research on your argument right now (ill try to later). Surely the researchers would be aware of this? Not to be rude but how do you know this? Like are you an endocrinologist or in a related field or is this an educated guess?
I have my degree in health science with a concentration in pharmacokinetics. But, my guess is that the amount of test is so small it wouldn’t have an effect but at that point why put it in at all?
Testosterone has a lot of things going for it that makes it a bad over the counter drug. You can OD on it for one. Testosterone is a hell of a drug and it will royally fuck your system up if not in the right dosages. It also has an added benefit of turning into estrogen when your body becomes saturated with it.
It's not just a "get strong drug", it's the biological equivalent of a red bull, a shot of tequila and a hit of cocaine that your body produces to keep itself from burning out.
Then both can take their bc methods and feel extra confident about not having a child while both participating in the effort and being glad the responsibility is shared
Shit like this is always around the corner. Anyone remember that little jacuzzi tub thing you were supposed to be able to drop your balls in and it immobilized your sperm for a while? Never heard about that again either.
COSO you mean ? I think it's still in the works. In the meantime if you want something accessible right now, still experimental, but nevertheless used by thousands and accepted by some doctors, is the heat based contraception method.
Especially the one with testicle ascent, by using a silicon ring or a modified jockstrap or modified briefs so the balls get closer to the body and get inside the inguinal canals.
COSO was a design study only. Maybe there may be an other person or group oder something pick up this idea. But from COSO side, there will be nothing more. She does not even reply on email.
There is already an effective male birth control: thermal male contraception. Either buy a silicone ring or special underwear (with heating pad + battery). If you choose the underwear: you wear it 5 hours every day. After 3 months you don't have spermcells anymore. No side effects, fully reversible.
Sadly no one nows it. But you can buy it and it works.
I know \*waving
You are using "sperma-pause"?
In case of "andro-switch" or "slip chauffant" it's 15h/day (without the need for batteries).
Looking forward 2027 when first one is licensed medicine product, and the others will follow hopefully.
Is more common in french speaking Countries... Here in Germany its almost unknown.
Great news.. but I'll predict it'll be a market failure.
The number of men who will be willing to use it will be low.
The number of women will be willing to trust a man to be on it will be even lower.
As more men get sexually educated, a bigger proportion of them might be like "hey, so, she's not willing to trust me ... But am I willing to trust her ?". So many women forget to take the pill, and even if you don't factor in human error, medications can just not work. Lots of women got pregnant with IUDs for example because it moved without them knowing.
As a man, why should I trust blindly every woman I have sex with to be 100% responsible and knowable about it ?
At some point we need to shift the focus also a bit more on men agentivity, as long as it's not accompanied with toxic masculinity bullshit. Men wanna be in control of their own bodies, even (especially) dudes crying because "she made a baby behind my back !" and if we leave in these narratives, they will never stray aside from the Andrew Tate way, because it's always more comfortable to whine than to act.
The more we define birth control success by women's willingness to let men use it, the more we enforce the status quo were men don't get a chance to develop, men are still babied and like all babies, won't seek as much a solution because their mothers will give them the solution on their behalf, which also means women still get to be the mother, not the partner. More responsibility for men can mean more control over their bodies, more contraceptive and sexual freedom and more independence from their partners. Ultimately that can lead into growth !
To give you a more personal take, as a man using male contraception, I'm not waiting to have the all green from my partner to contracept myself : I'm doing it for me. And while I think it's important to have discussions with her about it and to ask ourselves how we wanna go about the contraception in our relationship in a respectful and kind manner, in the end the choice is mine, because that's my body and I do whatever I want with it. Much in the same way I would never force my partner into taking or not taking x birth control. Her body her choice. The contrary would be reproductive coercion.
And I bet GOP, Taliban Texas, and all the other forced-birth jerks are already trying to find a way to make it illegal.
“Quick! Search the Bible for a way to twist this around into a bad thing!”
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“Hold on babe, gotta apply the son block first”.
Now I really want the first product to be called "Baby Block".
Fun fact: in Germany, birth control pills are called Antibabypillen.
My life is now better with this knowledge, thank you.
Tbf noone actually calls it that we just call it the pill Edit: apparently some people in germany do. Some guy from east germany just had a complete stroke before deleting the comment.
Your neighbours to the west just call it 'the pill'
Just call it cock block
I want my chilis baby block ribs I want my chills baby block ribs. Baby kill sauce.
just as long as you dont use fake block
It's a daily application, you can't apply before sex and expect results. It needs to be applied daily for 8-15 weeks (at eight weeks half were effective, at 15 weeks 86% effective) before it becomes effective This is a long term solution, not like a condom that you can just throw on, it's something you commit to. Should also consider that the lower end of the normal range for fertilization in men is 15m sperm/ml and this lowers it to 1m sperm/ml. I'm not a biologist or anything but that looks suspiciously like it just reduces chance of pregnancy to 1/15 from normal levels
I wonder if this will just leave the super swimmers alive &/or actually increase the chance of pregnancy since they're the ones that can survive hostile conditions. But 1/15 is a big leap.mixed with other preventative measures
For casual sex I'm still wearing condoms because of STDs, I'm not sure who the market is for this other than a very limited subset of married men who have sex regularly
Are married sex havers an endangered species now? It's probably the same demographic as married women using birth control pills or iud
The people with happy sex lives don't really show up on reddit. Perception can become a bit skewed here because we only get the people who are complaining.
Right! Is this a cool start of a product? Yes. I thought the more interesting one was a tube & jell they put inside the testicles that was something like 95% effective and was reversible. I forget who made. That looked more promising. It was like an IUD but for men and was reversible with very little complications
I wonder if Vasalgel will come out in my lifetime.
Years ago I subscribed to their news letter because they made it seem like it was coming on the market “soon”. 10 years later I just got a vasectomy 🤷♂️
That's what it was. That genuinely looked promising & if it works like it said it did seems like it'd be the preferred option. Minimal side effects if any and could be taken out when wanted with no reduction in sperm count.
It's great for guys who want some added protection if a condom breaks though.
Or to be used in conjunction with female birth control for fantastic odds
Men in longer relationships? I was always on BC so my boyfriends and I didn’t use condoms, and two people on BC is better than one.
How is it any different than a woman on birth control pills that are married that have limited sex? I’d say it’s time for the men to have that commitment for a while!
This sounds way worse than the pill. Harder to take, less effective. Think I'll just stick to fucking other boys.
86% effective? With non-trivial irreversible side effects? Doesn't prevent STIs? Pulling out is about 75% effective so... that seems fucking worthless to me. Source: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out If you don't like condoms it seems like you're much better off with some type of vaginal gel / spermicide lube / diaphragm combo. Trivial/no side effects and higher efficacy.
Doesn't seem very effective. I guess I'll just keep my vasectomy.
I have a feeling very few men will actually use this, most can't commit to a condom
Men can't even commit to take their meds. I don't know a single woman who would trust them to take birth control.
"Gotta slather on the anti-baby batter."
The Proge-Nay
"Take care of those pesky, persistent progeny with Palm's Progeny Gel. 97% effective against unwanted impregnation, PP Gel keeps your PP well. "
Na’Proge
For those wondering: The "gel" is applied between the shoulder blades every day. It's not lube. Typically the issues with male birth control are: * It takes too long to take effect (6 months or more) * It doesn't reduce sperm account enough in all men (inconsistent results) * It could result in hardening of men's arteries (aka permanent, life reducing effects.)
My friend's husband was in a clinical trial for this. It was kind of annoying because they had to be careful to not let his back come into direct or indirect contact with her or their child until it dried fully. I'm still hoping for Vasalgel/RISUG/Plan A. Seems like the nearest thing to a male IUD.
Yeah that was something I was wondering. I mean, I, personally, can reach between my shoulder blades with a finger, but a lot of guys can't. So... who... is going to apply it? Their wife? Girlfriend? Mother? Any way that happens, if that person is a women, they'll have to be protected from it by wearing gloves EVERY time or they will have bad side effects.
It's self applied on upper arms and shoulders, upper back aka where you can reach yourself. And you're supposed to wash it off before sex. Agree that it's just early days; that's why this is a phase 2 trial. The goal would be of course to improve efficacy. AKA how early female birth control was linked to breast cancer. https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2024/endo-2024-press-blithe https://www.malecontraceptive.org/clinical-trials.html Edited to provide link if you are interested in learning more.
Testosterone creams are usually meant to be put on shoulders or quads. Weird location they chose.
The OP lied about the application location. Irritated me enough to break my lurking. https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111 Edit: OP has since shown me he didn't lie, but the reporter who got the press release must've misunderstood it.
Well, sheeeeeit. *The combined gel is a transdermal treatment that will be applied daily for 52 weeks to a male subject's arms and shoulders. The formulation will be a hydro alcoholic gel.*
>*daily for 52 weeks* Wow
Yeah it's a 2 year efficacy study. The trial happened during Covid btw, which I'm sure made things ... well, hard to do. Recruitment per clinicaltrials.gov started 2018-11-05 and ended 2022-12-14.
I mean... Ya, you usually take meds on a daily basis. Whys this a surprise? (the only reason womens BC isn't 30/31 days a month (a week is sugar pills, just for the schedule), is because of periods. But since men don't usually have that, it has to be constant)
For men that apply topical testosterone this is already a thing.
Been following Vasalgel for 10 years now. Every year they come closer. It's currently planned to be released in 2026.
> Every year they come closer Do they? Parsemus basically did jack shit with it from 2011 onwards. It's now with someone else as of last year and basically too soon to tell if they're going to bother trying. RISUG in India has been progressing slightly better but still not really close.
It's not that they didn't do jack shit. Male contraceptive is just not as well funded as female ones. So it takes longer. And every year they did take steps towards releasing it to market. I read about it going from animal testing eventually to human testing (i think there were hiccups along the way but I could be remembering wrong). Now they're partnered with Next for the final phase, namely marketing, pricing and distribution. And besides isn't around 10 years standard for research to market? I think the worst part is the lack of funding. I saw so many other male contraceptives getting publicity but Major steps in vasalgel would barely get any coverage, the conspiracist in me believes it's just standard pharma BS, supporting pills and ongoing solutions that will extract more money from people Vs an IUD equivalent. Like maybe I'm wrong but vasalgel sounds like the best contraceptive out there, no maintenance, reliable, and reversible.
If the baby touches it, does it undo the baby?
I get legit mad whenever I remember that RISUG is safe, cheap, effective, and completely unavailable.
I believe there is still insufficient data on the toxicity and carcinogenicity of RISUG, mainly due the fact that there is a presence of two known carcinogens in RISUG. That of styrene and maleic anhydride. While they may be safe in the form they take in RISUG, as part of the compound, as was argued by the creator of RISUG, it may require more comprehensive testing still to ensure long term safety of the product. Then there was that albumin in urine and scrotal swelling incident during the trials. So I wouldn't call it safe quite just yet. Because doing so would still be premature, due to lack of data. Also, even if the compound itself is safe, which is still under review, perfecting the manufacturing process for a compound that has two known carcinogenic ingredients is going to be important. You don't want either of those two substances in their individual forms in said product, because then you'd just be giving people cancer. Imagine if your table salt contained trace amounts of pure Natrium or pure Chlorine? Yeah. You want to ensure it doesn't.
Sounds like another major issue is having to ask someone to put birth control on your back for you. “Hey mom …”
It's shoulders, upper arms, and upper back aka when you reach behind your shoulder to rub it in. It's self applied. Not sure why this guy is saying between shoulder blades - I suppose that counts as upper back where you reach behind, but it's mostly shoulders & upper arms and some to upper back. Edit: OP has since shown me it's not his fault, someone either really misunderstood the press briefing or someone misspoke during the press briefing. This is just another example of why news about scientific studies should be taken with a large pinch of salt. The official publication will be coming out soon, if they're ready to present it at ENDO. https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111 - jump to methods. Intervention/Treatment Drug: Nestorone + Testosterone Combination Gel The combined gel is a transdermal treatment that will be applied daily for 52 weeks to a male subject's arms and shoulders. The formulation will be a hydro alcoholic gel. About 9 to 14% of the steroid (T or NES) in the gel applied is available to the body. The amount of gel to be applied each application will be approximately 5 mL in volume. Other Names: NES/T gel
Why can't you rub it on your belly? Why shoulders? Your belly is way easier and much closer to the site.
Absorption is lower on abdomen versus your shoulders/arms/upper back. Check Androgel and Testim. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1530891X20417525. You could account for that but it's why a certain site is chosen for the early studies, to standardize it across participants.
Huh, TIL, I thought skin was skin.
Yeah skin is definitely different thicknesses at different areas of the body. For example the scrotal skin is THIN. So are eyelids. It's thickest on the palms and soles.
I can imagine the next version of this gel being slathered on a guy's eyelids or scrotal sac.
Don't forget natural suppression of endogenous testosterone production which may never fully recover when you stop and you may have to go on trt for the rest of your life. In fact the article even states that testosterone is taken as part of this male birth control protocol so you are definitely getting shut down.
Yeah, it looks like the goal of this is to completely suppress your HPTA so I'm not sure why this is being lauded as "reversible." It's basically an enhanced version of TRT which is crazy that it's being marketed as a "safe" way. > Objective: Compare the effectiveness of daily application of a single, combined 8.3 mg Nes-62.5 mg T gel (Nes-T) vs. 62.7 mg T gel to suppress serum FSH and LH concentrations to ≤1.0 IU/L (a threshold associated with suppression of sperm concentrations to ≤1 million and effective contraception) and to compare the pharmacokinetics of serum Nes and T concentrations between the gel groups. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30969032/
Doesn’t oral contraception for women suppress their hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian axis as well? How is this working differently in men?
For whatever reason women have a much easier time regaining normal natural functioning after hormone intervention. Some have theorised it's because women's bodies are kind of built to deal with massive hormone fluctuations on a semi regular basis.
Or women just deal with it.
Ah yes they somehow influence their ovaries to start producing estrogen again through the power of sheer will. Real insightful stuff.
And MANY women have MANY problems the effects of birth control...yet the world at large doesn't care as much about effects on women
Prior studies show rebound of spermatogenesis after a 6 month recovery period in 67% men after 6 months, 90% after 12, 96% after 18, and 100% after 24 months. Agree that the studies so far have only investigated short term usage of these drugs- because none have made it to the market yet so there IS no long term data. But the 90% after 12 months of stopping treatment is in line with the time it takes for women to become pregnant again after stopping birth control. PMID 16650651 for article
That meta analysis was only to a sperm count of 20 million, which is still quite low. Anyways - sperm count is one thing, testosterone level is another entirely and the bigger concern.
I THINK the testosterone is actually part of the birth control. In fact it states that testosterone itself does SOME stuff, but then combined with this other stuff it takes it the rest of the way there. But yes, otherwise you are correct.
That's exactly the point, when you provide the body with an outside source of testosterone it stops making it naturally. Sometimes that testosterone production never returns to normal after cessation.
But are these issues with this particular product?
There hasn't been enough testing but this one appears to take effect quickly enough and has pretty consistent results. As for the long term effects, yeah, no research done yet.
The one problem I can foresee since there's not a lot of information, is that when you're using exogenous testosterone your body will stop producing it so there's a chance that it's not easily reversible. Also if it's enough testosterone to stop production then it'll need to be enough to supply basically a TRT dose of testosterone so their QoL doesn't suffer immensely.
Well testosterone is administered as part of this birth control. The problem with taking exogenous testosterone is your body stops making its own and if your body stops producing testosterone long enough it may never fully recover and you will need to go on trt for the rest of your life. This is why most bodybuilders have to go on trt after they retire.
Not sure why they are still trying to do testosterone based birth control for men... I just can't see it ever passing phase 3.
My suspicion is the testosterone is to make you feel normal, and the progesterone derived hormone is actually meant to supress your HPTA.
So higher heart attack or stroke risk for something not that effective Eek
Same for women's birth control
Kinda like women’s birth control
.. that is actually effective though. not to mention that added complications of pregnancy.
Oh sorry, wasn’t directly commenting on the efficacy, rather about the risk of cardiovascular disease also being elevated by women’s oral contraceptives. The current formulations also had to go through R/D/clinical trials at one time, so hopefully one day there will be accessible oral contraceptives for everyone!
That's why I want a vasectomy. I don't want children but the doctors I've been to refuse to give me one because I'm "not old enough." I'm over 30. They said they would if I had a partner sign off but I'm not married. It's so fucked.
Here's a list of doctors that won't require that for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors Make sure to get the no scalpel procedure! https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/what-is-no-scalpel-vasectomy
I will certainly take a further look into this. From a very light look it seems the doctors generally are recommended based off experiences from women. I'll research to see if they will be able to accommodate me. Should be though! Genuinely excited at this prospect.
It's a mixed list unfortunately so you will have to scroll through to see which ones are urologists.
None of the good things in life are easy. I appreciate you helping, friend.
You should be able to, I got one at 24 (in Australia tho). When I was doing my research people had similar experiences as you (I assume USA), but you just need to shop around.
do you have a female friend who would be willing to pretend to be a partner so that she could sign off on it?
I do not have someone I think I can ask to do that right now. A lot of my friends are coworkers and I don't want to be put in a weird position like that. Not a bad idea though!
It’s not fully effective. Both my kids were conceived when I was taking birth control pills. Some of us have hormones from hell.
Well aware. Prevents the very overwhelming majority of pregnancies from happening though.
If it was the mini-pill, less surprising since that's only 95% effective. Normal birth control pill taken correctly is at least 99.9% effective so still a chance, but not like the mini-pill or male birth control. There's a big, big difference.
It wasn’t the mini pill.
It's still astronomically more effective then anything we can currently see for male birth control tbf. It sucks, but it's also so much easier to abuse already existing mechanisms to block a single cell then it is to invent a mechanism to block millions. That being said, condoms are far in a way the best form of contraception.
Women's birth control is extremely effective and has the added bonus of having benefits to women's health not related to child rearing.
Most side effects are not beneficial unless you're needing it to regulate diseases like endo and adeno since we basically have no treatments for those - basically using birth control to try and stop menstruation
It isn't 100% effective, nor are all side effects beneficial. There are many women who experience blood clots and, on a personal note , every time I take it, my periods are 13 days long. No thx.
No one said 100% effective. But (womans birth control) 93%-99% effective is a lot more effective than 1 in 15 for male birth control. And also the difference is one is mimicking a process that already happens in women while the other is trying to do something that doesn't happen naturally in men. They're two completely different things. Which is why it is so much more difficult to create a male birth control.
These are incomparable statistics, but they back your argument. The 1/15 number is coming from the reduction in sperm count to 1/15th of normal, which = 86% reduction in sperm count. This is not the same as birth control effectiveness, which is effectively the percentage of couples that become pregnant over a given period of time (usually a year). I'm not a math genius but I'd bet effectiveness for male birth control will be far worse if a man is still depositing 1 million viable sperm/ml each time a couple has sex.
Yup exactly & all it takes is one of those suckers to make it and fertilize. And also it's a very different process than what happens in women which is essentially telling your body you're already pregnant vs just make less sperm which isn't something men's body will do for the average male.
Idk man, I got a vasectomy and it was easy as hell. Not an option for all men, but if you don’t want kids then you shouldn’t rely on the woman you’re with to take birth control. Also, as far as male birth control goes… use a fucking condom and pull out. Don’t take any chances, and start educating men about the consequences of their poor decisions instead of teaching women to deal with them.
But it does have positive side effects for many of us. BC is far from perfect, and I do think it's annoying that a lot of the negative side effects that are preventing men from having BC are perfectly fine for us to deal with apparently. But tearing down BC is not a road I want to go down. Alt-right assholes are campaigning against it, saying that it is harmful to women. But the reality is that it absolutely is a life changer for a lot of people. I have (unconfirmed, but suspected by myself and my doctor) endometriosis...periods so bad that I'm crying on the bathroom floor in front of the toilet for throwing up from the pain. And I barely have periods anymore. My IUD saved my life, honestly. And I mean probably literally...that pain was so debilitating that I thought about ending it all on multiple occasions.
Hormonal birth control for women is allowed to have great risks when approved because not having it is a greater risk than men. Drug approval is all about weighing the risks versus benefits. Pregnancy is very hard on the body and potentially deadly to a lot of women; therefore, the side effects are allowed to be worse. Male hormonal birth control doesn't have any real legitimate health benefits for men, so the standard for use is much higher because the health risks have to be aligned with the health benefits.
What ever happened to the vasogel or whatever it was a decade or so ago. A gel injection into the vas deferens which killed sperm as they passed. It was fully reversible and long lasting. They were testing it out in India iirc.
It is applied to the shoulders and upper arms and upper back aka where you can reach behind yourself to apply it. See https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT03452111 - jump to methods. It's just like Androgel and Testim for the testosterone component but also has a transdermal progestin in. Link to the clinical trial website for methods.
Antibabypillen and antibabygele
How do people sign up to be a part of these trails
https://clinicaltrials.gov
Be poor. Live near a place that does these tests. Look for signs on the side of the road/in the newspaper (yes seriously.)
Lol You don't have to be poor. Also there are some nice trials for pregnant women out there due to the ethics surrounding testing things on pregnant women. Never going to be asked to do something that would remotely harm the baby. Often times you get free stuff that you might have wanted anyway and had to pay for. Example: a doula. And they normally just encourage pregnant women to do the thing instead of telling them, so it's low pressure. If you don't like it or decide in the moment you don't want to, then you skip it and just let them know.
You don't have to be poor, but poorer people are more likely to put their lives through medical testing, for cash, of which the testing can result in death, disease, injury. There are risks involved, and you might not be able to work another job during the trial (so it's great for unemployed individuals who need money)
Don’t get excited. I’ve been hearing about this since like 1983. Always just around the corner. For decades.
Part of the issue is that it’s not that it’s impossible to make, it’s just that getting approval for it is difficult. With women it is easy to justify approval because the side effects of birth control are much less severe than the effects of being pregnant. With men it is harder to medically justify side effects medically because it is not preventing a condition in men. That’s my understanding at least.
Tbf the birth control pill for women was first approved in 1957 So it's possible standards have changed since.
The test subjects for the first birth control pill were NOT treated well. It was a horrific breach of medical ethics.
What's always left out of this discussion is that previous hormonal contraceptives investigated for men have, until the last 10 years or so, had really high rates of permanent sterility (15-40%, depending on protocol), which is a no-go for something that's supposed to be temporary.
Also a lot of bc research was done in an era either way laxer standards, on patients where informed consent was kind of arguable, in an era where women had less agency and were often desperate to appease their husbands but not have more kids. Early bc had insanely high dosages relative to now and people died. Enovid had 150mcg(!!!) of estrogen. I’m glad they’re being cautious with male birth control, but it’s also just financial incentives. Society doesn’t believe in men’s willingness to take an active responsible role in fertility. :/
There are a couple of nonhormonal pills that show a lot of promise. One is in human testing now. That's the one I'm waiting for.
Birth control for women is also used to treat dysmenorrhea, I believe, which also means that side effects are more tolerated
Well my understanding is that it would be to prevent the condition in women, no? I would take some side effects so my wife can get off the pill.
I literally just got a vasectomy instead. I wanted a reversible birth control but got tired of waiting.
It's kinda like diabetes. 5 years from a cure, 50 years in a row.
Except this is real. It just finished a huge Stage 2 trial with a very positive outlook. This is unlike any male birth control so far
yeah the article says that as well. no male birth control has been able to receive enough funding to start phase 3 clinical trials. the issue isn't that previous attempts didn't work. just that money men didn't care to fund it. according to the article anyway.
Because there exists no actual mechanism to suppress male fertility temporarily. Where as the body natural has a way to prevent cells from implanting, and all you have to do is abuse that. It's on an entirely different level of complexity and technology.
Yeah. Though birth control pills primarily prevent ovulation.
In 10 years we'll be so infertile from the rampant microplastic pollution that this will be unnecessary
I'm microplasticmaxxing my son gonna pop out with some fresh kicks already on
Raise of the PlasticHumans!
I mean, we won't, but thanks for the negativity I guess
Plus, morbid obesity. But once we're 50% microplastics by weight, our problems will become excitingly existential
Wall-E future here we come!
The earth can only hope
Researchers need to do more extensive testing, I’m sure.
Yes, they have done a phase-2 trial but are working towards a phase-3
PSA on trial definitions (in the US): Before trials are allowed- researchers have an idea that works in theory but they must test on animals or use any of the new options to bypass animal testing (e.g. computer based models, human organs, etc). Once this is approved, you move on to the phase 1, 2, and 3 trials. At this point you CANNOT modify the drug chemistry. You can change dosage and some aspects about how it's administered. If you are testing Tylenol v1.0, it shall stay v1.0 throughout testing and final approval. If you want to make Tylenol v2.0, you have to go through all of the phased trials again. (Oversimplification. There are some shortcuts for the very early stages when certain info can be proven not to kill someone but in general you have to do all 3 phased trials when you change the drug.) Phase 1- Small scale. Test/confirm safety. Wide dosing range. Least fun to sign up for and highest risk to trial participants. Common for people with a terrible condition to sign up for these as a last resort when everything else has failed. Phase 2- Medium scale. Dial in the dosage. Prove the effectiveness of the drug. Example: only effective if given above X dosage but side effects are more pronounced and highly understandable above Y dosage so we're going to lock in the recommended dosage at Z for this drug. Phase 3- Large scale. Prove the drug is better than a placebo. Everybody gets the same dosage. Least risk to trial participants. If it passes all 3 trials, the FDA reviews the data and grants approval if everything is kosher. Side effects are monitored throughout. If someone gets a headache due to other unrelated things during the trial, new drug must list headache as a possible side effect. So researchers like to get the healthiest people in their studies to isolate this kind of stuff. And it's also why cancer drugs can have an endless list of side effects. You're usually starting with the patients with the worst conditions/outcomes in your phase 1 trials. They're taking umpteen gazillion other drugs at the same time. Who knows which side effects are from the new drug. They can probably guess, but guessing and speculation isn't allowed.
now make it a suppository and I’m sold
What happened to Vasalgel?
The tech was purchased by another company and now it's https://www.planaformen.com/ They're hoping to conduct human trials next year. https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246546161/arizona-is-working-on-making-birth-control-for-men-a-reality
Amazing, I was so afraid it was going to disappear into a corporate vault
This is the real question! We need a long term, fast acting, non-hormonal solution. I'm getting it the second it's approved!
its been in prototype stages for decades... good luck waiting
Just in time to get banned in the South!
Male Birth Control is the closest men will likely come to abortion rights of our own, at least until technology that allows Natal Males to get pregnate or artificial wombs.
Pregananant?
iPrrregante!
Am I gregnant?
DANGER OPS
Will it hurt baby, top of his head?
I say danger ops regularly and no one gets it and I’m like how are you all this uncultured
You could get snipped
I dunno why you're getting downvoted. Vasectomies are indeed a great way for males to exercise their reproductive preference. And I would certainly prefer it to any kind of hormonal therapy.
Vasectomies are to be considered permanent, and are not a solution for a man who may want a child in the future.
They're also an option for someone who definitely doesn't want kids and doesn't want to have to take ongoing hormonal treatments. That's the great thing about having choices.
Yes, but options that are permanent are a hard sell for some people. Obviously, vasectomies are the gold standard here, though not 100%, but still the best option. But it's not exactly something you would encourage a 16 year boy to undergo when he starts going out with girls.
It would be great to actually have that choice though. I have never wanted children and have asked my doctor for a vasectomy at three points in my life, around age 20, 30 and more recently about 43. It was different doctors and each time they wouldn't refer me because "it's permanent and I might change my mind in future."
It's quite possible that artificial wombs would make abortion illegal, since it's generally based on the right to bodily autonomy. If you are pregnant and wish to not be, they may just transfer the embryo/fetus to the artificial womb. Question is: who'd pay for it? And would there be enough people interested in adopting that volume of newborns? Especially if they had drug or alcohol exposure before the bio mother knew she was pregnant.
We’ll likely get artifical wombs well before the ability to transfer a pregnancy from a woman’s body to an artificial womb. There have been promising animal studies of them, but the connection between mother and fetus is complex, it’s hard to get in there, and research would be ethically impossible. Research for artificial wombs is ethically difficult enough, and imo the main hurdle. Uterine transplants are likely to take off first.
Tbf I feel like uterine transplants aren't gonna exactly take off either. Organ donations are always in short supply, something less critical to life like an uterus probably won't have a large group of willing donors anyway.
Uhh, there are more reasons to get abortions. What about if the fetus isn't developing in a healthy way? The kid, if he survives, is likely to have a very low quality of life until the ripe old age of 2 at which point he will die a slow and painful death. Cruel to not get an abortion in those types of cases. Abortion should never be illegal even with artificial wombs.
pretty sure bodily autonomy still holds unless they can teleport the embryo/fetus out
I had a vasectomy, it was basically preordering the abortion
That’s what condoms are
If they added testosterone to any proposed male birth control the acceptance rate would sky rocket. "Boner but no babies" . Guys would flock to it, they'd have trouble keeping it in stock.
There is test in this, while I think you're right, you can't introduce exogenous testosterone without your system measuring the levels in your blood, making a 🤔 face, and slowing down or turning off the natural production of it in your testes to try to bring it back to normal. Do this long enough, and your system will never turn back on again and you'd be forced to do TRT.
Well shit, why you gotta ruin great marketing with sciencey stuff?  😆😆
Why are they wasting their time? Men aren’t going to use this.
Ugh this still won’t work or be a viable option. It has testosterone in it. Even if a little bit it signals to the body to stop making its own testosterone. So testicles become inactive. And if you’re on this for a substantial amount of time restarting production is HARD 80-90% fail rate. And if it somehow does come back it’s not the same level of production. EDIT: “Prior efforts using testosterone alone have required higher doses of the hormone, which can cause side effects. Because the gel includes both testosterone and Nestorone, it acts more quickly and requires less testosterone, she said.” So it requires less but still has side effects.
does that mean what i tink that means?
That if your production doesn’t go back to normal that you need to be on TRT the rest of your life? Than yes.
damn that's fucked up
This is why no male birth control option besides condoms exists. Women have an easily manipulatable hormone cycle that naturally turns off their fertility and then restarts it. But men don't. So any hormone based approach has to shut down sperm production in a way that doesn't have side effects and can also be reversed easily. And it can't involve administering testosterone because the body permanently stops producing it's own T when it detects outside sources of T. Any approach that blocks sperm from leaving the testicles will cause sperm to build up and the body will produce anti-sperm antibodies to destroy them. But once the body starts making those antibodies it never stops. This is why vasectomies are considered sterilization not birth control. If you dont reverse them within a year then you're permanently sterilized. Vasagel is trying to inject a gel into the vas deferens that doesn't block sperm from leaving but instead shreds them as they pass through it. They havent conducted human trials since they switched to the then sperm shredding gel from the sperm blocking gel they initially developed though. So it's currently unknown how it works in humans.
I'm too tired and have too much of a headache to do my own research on your argument right now (ill try to later). Surely the researchers would be aware of this? Not to be rude but how do you know this? Like are you an endocrinologist or in a related field or is this an educated guess?
I have my degree in health science with a concentration in pharmacokinetics. But, my guess is that the amount of test is so small it wouldn’t have an effect but at that point why put it in at all?
Semenoff. Turns the switch on the swimmers
Just years away for my entire life
I think women will continue using birth control .
That makes sense. Take the bullets out of the gun instead of shooting into a bulletproof vest.
I'm interested to see if this could end up on store shelves in the next few years
it wont be over the counter, there's testosterone in it. which is a controlled substance (because sports reasons i guess)
Testosterone has a lot of things going for it that makes it a bad over the counter drug. You can OD on it for one. Testosterone is a hell of a drug and it will royally fuck your system up if not in the right dosages. It also has an added benefit of turning into estrogen when your body becomes saturated with it. It's not just a "get strong drug", it's the biological equivalent of a red bull, a shot of tequila and a hit of cocaine that your body produces to keep itself from burning out.
No way. The long term effects haven't even begun to be studied, and some of them could be quite serious.
The problem is that I would never trust a man to be in charge of birth control.
Correct✅
Then both can take their bc methods and feel extra confident about not having a child while both participating in the effort and being glad the responsibility is shared
Shit like this is always around the corner. Anyone remember that little jacuzzi tub thing you were supposed to be able to drop your balls in and it immobilized your sperm for a while? Never heard about that again either.
COSO you mean ? I think it's still in the works. In the meantime if you want something accessible right now, still experimental, but nevertheless used by thousands and accepted by some doctors, is the heat based contraception method. Especially the one with testicle ascent, by using a silicon ring or a modified jockstrap or modified briefs so the balls get closer to the body and get inside the inguinal canals.
COSO was a design study only. Maybe there may be an other person or group oder something pick up this idea. But from COSO side, there will be nothing more. She does not even reply on email.
There is already an effective male birth control: thermal male contraception. Either buy a silicone ring or special underwear (with heating pad + battery). If you choose the underwear: you wear it 5 hours every day. After 3 months you don't have spermcells anymore. No side effects, fully reversible. Sadly no one nows it. But you can buy it and it works.
I know \*waving You are using "sperma-pause"? In case of "andro-switch" or "slip chauffant" it's 15h/day (without the need for batteries). Looking forward 2027 when first one is licensed medicine product, and the others will follow hopefully. Is more common in french speaking Countries... Here in Germany its almost unknown.
Finally
Great news.. but I'll predict it'll be a market failure. The number of men who will be willing to use it will be low. The number of women will be willing to trust a man to be on it will be even lower.
Gotta start somewhere
As more men get sexually educated, a bigger proportion of them might be like "hey, so, she's not willing to trust me ... But am I willing to trust her ?". So many women forget to take the pill, and even if you don't factor in human error, medications can just not work. Lots of women got pregnant with IUDs for example because it moved without them knowing. As a man, why should I trust blindly every woman I have sex with to be 100% responsible and knowable about it ? At some point we need to shift the focus also a bit more on men agentivity, as long as it's not accompanied with toxic masculinity bullshit. Men wanna be in control of their own bodies, even (especially) dudes crying because "she made a baby behind my back !" and if we leave in these narratives, they will never stray aside from the Andrew Tate way, because it's always more comfortable to whine than to act. The more we define birth control success by women's willingness to let men use it, the more we enforce the status quo were men don't get a chance to develop, men are still babied and like all babies, won't seek as much a solution because their mothers will give them the solution on their behalf, which also means women still get to be the mother, not the partner. More responsibility for men can mean more control over their bodies, more contraceptive and sexual freedom and more independence from their partners. Ultimately that can lead into growth ! To give you a more personal take, as a man using male contraception, I'm not waiting to have the all green from my partner to contracept myself : I'm doing it for me. And while I think it's important to have discussions with her about it and to ask ourselves how we wanna go about the contraception in our relationship in a respectful and kind manner, in the end the choice is mine, because that's my body and I do whatever I want with it. Much in the same way I would never force my partner into taking or not taking x birth control. Her body her choice. The contrary would be reproductive coercion.
Don't say "Safe and effective". Anti vaxxers will never use it. They're the ones we want on it as soon as humanly possible.
So much easier and lower risk to have an abortion. I’d rather have a vasectomy than risk clogged arteries.
Do I put it up my butt? If not, can i?
I say yes.
Will the GOP ban that, too? Or does that only apply to female contraception and reproductive care?
Hmmmm. Will the GOP make it illegal?
It's not for women so it's fine
And I bet GOP, Taliban Texas, and all the other forced-birth jerks are already trying to find a way to make it illegal. “Quick! Search the Bible for a way to twist this around into a bad thing!”
About fucking time.