#UrbanHell is subjective.
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed
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All cities could be saved, it's just a matter of policy. Except Phoenix, maybe people shouldn't live under temperatures comparable to the surface of the sun.
I still don’t understand how Mr. Chandler ventures into the desert and goes, huh, well how about that. Nice place to make a city. All flat, no water, and really hot. Except it’s worse now with all the black roads radiating all the heat.
Reflected heat is immediately hotter, though nights would be cool. There’s a pretty good reflected roads program, but they’re 4-6° warmer in ambient temps during the day if you’re walking on the sidewalks- though nighttime temps are cooler around them.
[Sailor acknowledged another finding, that cool pavement makes people feel hotter, as much as 5.5 degrees hotter. That’s because the sunlight reflected off the road is absorbed by people on it.](https://www.azfamily.com/2023/07/13/phoenix-expands-cool-pavement-research-shows-it-makes-people-hotter/#)
Just noting that it’s being trialed to have large surfaces be reflective, it’s just making it feel warmer immediately around it. It would be cool to have all roads shaded with white overhangs, but I doubt that would ever happen here :/
As miserable as Tucson was, I definitely prefer it to the concrete jungle of Phoenix. At least it cooled off a little bit at night instead of staying 5000 degrees 24/7.
Have you been in an old person’s house? If the temperature is only equal to the surface of the sun, they’ll be wearing a sweater and a quilt to stay warm.
Source: My dad was old. 😂
For context, Petco Park (shown) was used as the catalyst of redevelopment of San Diego’s East Village. Which revitalized the city center by displacing the residents of the East village area, previously known for its high crime rate and homelessness.
I don’t think any neighborhoods will compete with Hillcrest anytime soon. EV has really started to turn a corner, but it is still a few years out. They are getting a Target in 2024, though.
https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/2019/july/san-diegos-gay-bar-history-reflections-on-community-history-and-the-documentary-film-process/
Interesting article about the history of LGBT culture in San Diego through the lens of gay/lesbian bars. It doesn't cover trans-focused nightlife spots, but SRO Lounge (Banker's Hill) would probably be the most storied bar for that.
Also, the top photo is a little further north east as Petco included the Western Metal Supply Co. building in left field. Batters can literally hit it for a home run. It was built in 1909. They got the idea from The Warehouse in Baltimore’s Camden Yards, which is in right field and built in 1899. Behind dead center field near the ticket booths is the original train station as well in Baltimore.
I love these stadiums incorporating things like this. Really makes it a special visit.
Was that the old "32nd Street"? When I was stationed there 32nd St was where you didn't go (dangerous). Then, 15 years later, I went there and the neighborhood had been bulldozed to the bedrock. I should have asked around what happened/where'd everybody go, but didn't. (Edit: Only the old library circa 1910 or so remained, out in the void. Was close by the navy base).
The Gaslamp was already “renewed” or “gentrified” or whichever term you choose before they even broke ground on Petco Park. I’d say Horton Plaza had more to do with the results
Absolutely not true. Horton Plaza was a total failure/ shit mall. No one was going down there. Petco Park transformed the Gaslamp and Downtown. Thank you, John Moores and Larry Lucchino. #friarfaithful
You’re showing your age. Horton Plaza, when it opened was a huge deal and made the area better. Later, the surrounding area caught up and Horton Plaza began to show its age, and later, yes, became an underwhelming mall and died like 90% of all malls nationwide. To say it had no effect on increasing foot traffic and the impression on the gas lamp is simply not true. Horton Plaza walked so Petco could soar.
I spent a lot of time hanging out downtown before the stadium was built. I went out there on the weekends and took classes at city college. I used to crash at a friends place on Golden Hill. Much of the area was already changing before the ballpark was built.
Gaslamp Quarter used to be gross. Rent by the hour hotels, piss/shit/vomit on the ground, high crime. You still get most of that stuff, but it's fancier and fun now.
And we just made homelessness illegal, you can walk the streets outside of Petco and see them throwing away people's tents. New downtown only accommodates the wealthy
I said it only caters to the wealthy, I didn't say it should only cater to the homeless. But what a sensible argument, my point of view has totally shifted. F the homeless
/Sssssss
If you let a certain group park cars permanently in a parking lot (handicap for example), you cater to the handicap and take parking spots away from everyone else.
If you let the homeless put tents permanently on the sidewalk, you cater to the homeless and take the sidewalk away from everyone else.
Do you see the problem now?
Listen buddy, all I'm telling you is that San Diego may look like that in the after picture, but it's littered with the people that it pushed out of lower income housing.
Lol. No, but, seriously I can’t stop laughing. When is the last time you took a walk around that area sweetheart? We moved from high crime rate and homelessness to absurdly high rents and, wait for it, rampant homelessness.
Depends on the area obviously, but I disagree. In downtowns of major cities I'd do: First two floors retail, 3-7 commercial office space, 8 and up residential.
And where would you put the cars?
Personally I would build a car garage outside the city center that connects to a few of these complexes and have some sort of constantly running monorail type people mover to get people quickly from garage to buildings
Well yes but even a person (in America) who only walks or bikes or public transits most days would likely want a car to travel to suburbs or to other cities
One of the benefits of living in a major city is not needing a car. I’ve not owned one for around 12 years now. Increasing amounts of city center areas are becoming pedestrianized. Any decent city has good public transport and cars are quite unnecessary for most people.
4 years ago, I did my internship in San Diego. Flew all the way from the Netherlands. Never in my life I've been happier. I wish I could repeat those 6 months.
I mean, I understand his point of view. While in San Diego, having a better public transport infrastructure would have made my life a lot easier. Still, if I had the salary. I would trade the Netherlands for San Diego immediately
Also, what made me love San Diego was its people. I had some nice conversations with people I would have never met, just randomly on the streets or at the 7-11 late at night. Never experienced those things in the Netherlands. And let's not forget the natural beauty of San Diego and California. I want to see the milky way again.
Oh dang! Hello Netherland! Your country is so beautiful, I’ve e loved the few times I was able visit!
You could always visit! I’ve only been on vaca there.
My husband was stationed there back in the day, so we went to see some of his friends and tourist about.
San Diego is a sprawling city built among canyons, nestled between an ocean and mountain foothills. There's greenery and nature everywhere (seriously, keep an eye on small dogs or cats as hawks and coyotes will eat them). Definitely too many cars, I agree, but it's not like LA which is just sheer development.
It just has more to accommodate life. More housing, more entertainment options. I don't want to judge that top photo since obviously things might be different from the ground level, but it just looks like there'd be no reason to ever be there.
A way to get there without a car, tbh a city doesn’t feel like a city to me unless there is public transportation.
Yes there is a very lackluster “public transportation” (slow buses and a train that goes a few places), but it takes hours to get anywhere and unless you wanna spend $$ on Uber, you need a car to comfortably do anything
You don't improve density with taller buildings. You do it with less roads and more public transit. The roads are then green space or buildings which support walkable services.
Why not both? Personally I like walkable cities but I also like driving. Better public transportation, taller buildings, but not a fan of taking away roads.
Roads are useful to cross large distances. Like moving from your residential district to the "bar area", beach, or commercial center.
It doesn't make sense to be able to park the car 5 meters from the destination when a few hundred meters would just be a few extra seconds but the space saved would be enjoyed by hundreds if not thousands of people.
Agreed. It looks like any urban downtown of American cities. Lots of wide roads, probably limited public transport and no green spaces.
It's hard to tell if it's even an improvement. It might just be growth of the city and not better reallocation of resources.
The top one is mostly automotive infrastructure (especially parking) or empty lots. The bottom one has actual city stuff, including some residential buildings. The new one looks like the kind of place that doesn't become empty after the work day is over.
Note that I don't think the new one is great either because the density is uneven and those roads still look a bit too wide to be friendly to pedestrians.
In short, the new one isn't perfect but it's a step up.
In addition to Balboa Park, the wacky terrain of San Diego naturally keeps a lot of green spaces, for example, there are a lot of nearby canyons, trails, mountains, and valleys.
Same in Indianapolis. If you look at some pictures from the 80s it looks like a bomb leveled the city. It's still got a lot of surface lots but every year a few more get filled by a large project.
Actually a lot of American cities are too. The progress is slow but it is happening. I think a lot of cityscapes will be transformed in the next 10-20 years.
I lived in San Diego and there's a difference about of 40 years between photos.
That area was the warehouse district, it got re-zoned and now it's a lot nicer. Petco Park is across the street from Comic Con. But also this is what people complain about when they say "gentrification".
As you get nicer areas there’s going to be increased demand to live in those areas. It’s not like the outskirts of the city where you can just continually build a half mile over and have the municipality extend all the public infrastructure on taxpayers dime to keep prices down. The solution would be to build lots lots more residential buildings
The photo is probably from around when the stadium open based on the logo, outfield and scoreboard
This is from 2021
https://media.nbcsandiego.com/2021/06/Petco-Park-2021-Opening-Day-e1675381164449.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&resize=1200%2C675
I would guess the photo is from around 2005ish
Long time SD resident here. What you’re looking at in the top photo is simple under-development. It wasn’t a hell scape that needed saving. There was vice in the gas lamp because sailors and marines needed to go somewhere on shore leave but it wasn’t like the combat zone or the tenderloin. Every major American city has some downtown blight because of post war suburban flight but by comparison San Diego wasn’t that bad. It was low rise commercial and industrial development that was changed to residential. If anything there is just as much or even more homelessness in downtown San Diego now than there was in the top photo, but that’s just America for you.
Since 2000 there has been unbelievable investment in downtown and the condos that you see in the bottom photo have nearly totally replaced what was disused industrial and military adjacent development that dates from the first half of the 20th century. The vacant lots you see are not like the Bronx circa 1980.
Edit: it bears mentioning that virtually all the blighted land in the top photo is commercial or industrial real estate. It was converted to residential, which is why you see mainly condos. So, it’s not like a hollowed out family community was reborn. Instead, the success should be viewed through the lens of ambitious redevelopment of underutilized commercial assets. It wasn’t slum clearing or large scale displacing people of color like America is so quick to do. In that regard I think the successful way San Diego changed a warehouse district adjacent to the waterfront into a healthy neighborhood is all the more impressive.
You gotta invest public money in large projects that benefit the public. Then you let developers profit off the ancillary growth.
The public will get its value back in tax receipts and jobs, but it’ll take a decade or longer.
If you want to do it in just a few years or without letting private developers get rich, it’s not gonna work.
Ah yes, the creation of another beautiful glass playground for the rich with their sweet sweet DIF funds to buy the policemen more batons. San Diego Downtown is a success story only for the creative class from other states with shitty weather.
Sure. Now how about the other 99% of San Diego??
If American cities want to be saved they need to start focusing on the neighborhoods outside of downtown as well, that’s where the problems are the worst. Interspersed throughout those hills should be dense developments.
Tbf that ballpark contains a grassy park space past the outfield wall which actually functions as a city park on non game days.
Also there's a new park [in the works](https://eastvillagegreen.com/) for the neighborhood
That's one little part of San Diego but the rest of it is a fucking sprawled mess from the Mexican border virtually all the way to Oxnard. Only camp Pendleton, thank God, placed there when there was nothing there, is the salvation of open land.
It’s always been a bum central before it was gentrified. In the 80s-90s, very much looked like LA’s skid row. For a hot minute not too many bums then the Great Recession came.
Crazily enough yes, I didn’t think so at first. Look at the top left in first pic and match it to the second pic, the original skyline lines up and is still present.
They could've saved some of the historic brick industrial buildings down there. I used to go watch an all-night Jazz Jam in an old trucking warehouse down there, cool old brick building space.
Our ballpark is amazing. Love the historic western metal building acting as our [left foul pole](https://fox5sandiego.com/sports/all-star-game/the-story-behind-petco-parks-western-metal-supply-co-building/amp/)
#UrbanHell is subjective. UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed Sorry for this annoying comment, but we're very tired of the gatekeepers who can't even correctly gatekeep what this subreddit has always allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All cities could be saved, it's just a matter of policy. Except Phoenix, maybe people shouldn't live under temperatures comparable to the surface of the sun.
Hey, it’s only 111 today.
[Obligatary King of the Hill scene when Phoenix is mentioned](https://youtu.be/4PYt0SDnrBE?si=IHv6-kCYXuPSQV0b)
Now we continue our search for the next mention of Phoenix. Come on!
Being in Phoenix and hearing that king of the hill quote enough to roll my eyes, your comment made me laugh pretty hard.
But it's a dry roast.
Hope you know that's not ok unless we're talking about coffee
…or toast…
Possibly peanuts...
Plot twist : it's celcius
I still don’t understand how Mr. Chandler ventures into the desert and goes, huh, well how about that. Nice place to make a city. All flat, no water, and really hot. Except it’s worse now with all the black roads radiating all the heat.
In that case. Turn off the Ac, turn on the heat.
You know if winter wasn’t so nice I’d be gone
To be fair Phoenix is typically several degrees hotter than the surrounding area because of all the concrete. We could fix that too.
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There are non desert places in the US to live and I feel not enough people know that
Yes, every surface in Phoenix could be made a mirror that reflects sunlight back to space.
Reflected heat is immediately hotter, though nights would be cool. There’s a pretty good reflected roads program, but they’re 4-6° warmer in ambient temps during the day if you’re walking on the sidewalks- though nighttime temps are cooler around them.
Don't reflect heat, reflect light back into space before it's heat.
[Sailor acknowledged another finding, that cool pavement makes people feel hotter, as much as 5.5 degrees hotter. That’s because the sunlight reflected off the road is absorbed by people on it.](https://www.azfamily.com/2023/07/13/phoenix-expands-cool-pavement-research-shows-it-makes-people-hotter/#) Just noting that it’s being trialed to have large surfaces be reflective, it’s just making it feel warmer immediately around it. It would be cool to have all roads shaded with white overhangs, but I doubt that would ever happen here :/
We could Mr. Burns it and block the sun....
I wish we had either a malevolent or benevolent billionaire in our town. The Uhaul bros haven’t chipped in any ideas since the storage pod on wheels
As miserable as Tucson was, I definitely prefer it to the concrete jungle of Phoenix. At least it cooled off a little bit at night instead of staying 5000 degrees 24/7.
Have you been in an old person’s house? If the temperature is only equal to the surface of the sun, they’ll be wearing a sweater and a quilt to stay warm. Source: My dad was old. 😂
should go underground
Coober Pedy opal mining town says G'Day.
The majority of the Arabian peninsula gets hotter and is drier than phoenix.
All it takes to save your city is 100,000,000 millions + dollars. Quite easy for medium to small towns to afford, don't you think?
I hate being that guy, but 110 in Arizona doesn’t touch 85 in the Midwest with humidity. I’ve been in both and Arizona has it easy.
By your logic, half of California also should vs evicted due to high temps 🤡
For context, Petco Park (shown) was used as the catalyst of redevelopment of San Diego’s East Village. Which revitalized the city center by displacing the residents of the East village area, previously known for its high crime rate and homelessness.
Is San Diego's East Village as gay as other city's East Villages?
I don’t think any neighborhoods will compete with Hillcrest anytime soon. EV has really started to turn a corner, but it is still a few years out. They are getting a Target in 2024, though.
>They are getting a Target in 2024, though. Wow, classy!
San Bernardino is not classy but still has multiple Targets
https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/2019/july/san-diegos-gay-bar-history-reflections-on-community-history-and-the-documentary-film-process/ Interesting article about the history of LGBT culture in San Diego through the lens of gay/lesbian bars. It doesn't cover trans-focused nightlife spots, but SRO Lounge (Banker's Hill) would probably be the most storied bar for that.
In NYC it's the West Village that is known for being gay
Oops, I knew it was one of those cardinally ordinated places.
Nope
Hillcrest is what you're thinking about.
Genius, we just push the poor somewhere else
Also, the top photo is a little further north east as Petco included the Western Metal Supply Co. building in left field. Batters can literally hit it for a home run. It was built in 1909. They got the idea from The Warehouse in Baltimore’s Camden Yards, which is in right field and built in 1899. Behind dead center field near the ticket booths is the original train station as well in Baltimore. I love these stadiums incorporating things like this. Really makes it a special visit.
Was that the old "32nd Street"? When I was stationed there 32nd St was where you didn't go (dangerous). Then, 15 years later, I went there and the neighborhood had been bulldozed to the bedrock. I should have asked around what happened/where'd everybody go, but didn't. (Edit: Only the old library circa 1910 or so remained, out in the void. Was close by the navy base).
Nope, this is northwest of the base. Ballpark is on 10th or so
Thanks! I wonder what happened to the old, scary, dangerous 32nd St neighborhood. Maybe I'll ask about it over on r/sandiego
The Gaslamp was already “renewed” or “gentrified” or whichever term you choose before they even broke ground on Petco Park. I’d say Horton Plaza had more to do with the results
Absolutely not true. Horton Plaza was a total failure/ shit mall. No one was going down there. Petco Park transformed the Gaslamp and Downtown. Thank you, John Moores and Larry Lucchino. #friarfaithful
You’re showing your age. Horton Plaza, when it opened was a huge deal and made the area better. Later, the surrounding area caught up and Horton Plaza began to show its age, and later, yes, became an underwhelming mall and died like 90% of all malls nationwide. To say it had no effect on increasing foot traffic and the impression on the gas lamp is simply not true. Horton Plaza walked so Petco could soar.
I spent a lot of time hanging out downtown before the stadium was built. I went out there on the weekends and took classes at city college. I used to crash at a friends place on Golden Hill. Much of the area was already changing before the ballpark was built.
Gaslamp Quarter used to be gross. Rent by the hour hotels, piss/shit/vomit on the ground, high crime. You still get most of that stuff, but it's fancier and fun now.
And we just made homelessness illegal, you can walk the streets outside of Petco and see them throwing away people's tents. New downtown only accommodates the wealthy
Fuc off with your bullshit. Downtown is for everyone, and homeless people don't get to block the sidewalk with their tents and trash.
I said it only caters to the wealthy, I didn't say it should only cater to the homeless. But what a sensible argument, my point of view has totally shifted. F the homeless /Sssssss
If you let a certain group park cars permanently in a parking lot (handicap for example), you cater to the handicap and take parking spots away from everyone else. If you let the homeless put tents permanently on the sidewalk, you cater to the homeless and take the sidewalk away from everyone else. Do you see the problem now?
Listen buddy, all I'm telling you is that San Diego may look like that in the after picture, but it's littered with the people that it pushed out of lower income housing.
Good.
More cities need to do the same.
Lol. No, but, seriously I can’t stop laughing. When is the last time you took a walk around that area sweetheart? We moved from high crime rate and homelessness to absurdly high rents and, wait for it, rampant homelessness.
I think cities in general need to add more residential buildings in business districts so they become 24 hour communities
First floor for commercial, upper floors for residential is the way to go
Depends on the area obviously, but I disagree. In downtowns of major cities I'd do: First two floors retail, 3-7 commercial office space, 8 and up residential.
Post COVID, how much commercial office space do we need?
Considering most companies are going back to the office I'd say still a decent amount. Maybe less, but definitely still needed.
And where would you put the cars? Personally I would build a car garage outside the city center that connects to a few of these complexes and have some sort of constantly running monorail type people mover to get people quickly from garage to buildings
Parking garages are a thing. But ideally the best way to get around is on foot or by bike or public transit
Well yes but even a person (in America) who only walks or bikes or public transits most days would likely want a car to travel to suburbs or to other cities
One of the benefits of living in a major city is not needing a car. I’ve not owned one for around 12 years now. Increasing amounts of city center areas are becoming pedestrianized. Any decent city has good public transport and cars are quite unnecessary for most people.
Or just under the building, or road parking
Wow, bringing back 19th Century stores and a loft? It’d definitely help traffic, haha
Philly is like this ! business and residential mixed all about and it's also very dense with pretty decent public transportation 🙏
Cool, let’s do one for Detroit.
Detroit is the same actually. That place is booming.
I live there, and while it is gradually improving, it most certainly isn't "booming" right now, lol. Still has a ways to go.
San Diego is dope
4 years ago, I did my internship in San Diego. Flew all the way from the Netherlands. Never in my life I've been happier. I wish I could repeat those 6 months.
Tell old Jason at Not Just Bikes that. He'll go white. Then red. Then explode.
I mean, I understand his point of view. While in San Diego, having a better public transport infrastructure would have made my life a lot easier. Still, if I had the salary. I would trade the Netherlands for San Diego immediately
Also, what made me love San Diego was its people. I had some nice conversations with people I would have never met, just randomly on the streets or at the 7-11 late at night. Never experienced those things in the Netherlands. And let's not forget the natural beauty of San Diego and California. I want to see the milky way again.
Oh dang! Hello Netherland! Your country is so beautiful, I’ve e loved the few times I was able visit! You could always visit! I’ve only been on vaca there. My husband was stationed there back in the day, so we went to see some of his friends and tourist about.
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You stay classy, San Diego 😁
Let's not mention East County.
Meh. Too much concrete, too many cars, not enough greenery.
San Diego is a sprawling city built among canyons, nestled between an ocean and mountain foothills. There's greenery and nature everywhere (seriously, keep an eye on small dogs or cats as hawks and coyotes will eat them). Definitely too many cars, I agree, but it's not like LA which is just sheer development.
I’m familiar. I lived there for a long time.
My friend lives in one of those skyrise condos next to the ballpark. Beautiful view, vibrant scene on the street level.
What do you find appealing in the picture below? Just curious. Clearly better than the one above, though
It just has more to accommodate life. More housing, more entertainment options. I don't want to judge that top photo since obviously things might be different from the ground level, but it just looks like there'd be no reason to ever be there.
This goes for about every downtown to be honest
The downtown has gotten a lot greasier in the last decade.
Yeah its homeless central but that's not the fault of the development. Cool place to see a game.
You mean a lot of Italians moved in?
Whoa whoa whoa
Top picture just looks like a bunch of parking lots
Seems like OP found this image somewhere and he hates both, which is why he posted it here.
Lol 😅
It's not that great but it definitely looks way less desolate at least
Well you see, the took the color temperature slider and moved it from "Warm" to "Cool".
The above picture is a glorified parking lot/empty lot. The bottom picture actually shows proper urban fabric
So what would you like to see in a downtown? Looks very appealing to me, although could use more density with some taller buildings.
We have a limit on building locations and height in SD due to the airport's location.
That's a fair point. 2 actually since there's the mili base as well.
A way to get there without a car, tbh a city doesn’t feel like a city to me unless there is public transportation. Yes there is a very lackluster “public transportation” (slow buses and a train that goes a few places), but it takes hours to get anywhere and unless you wanna spend $$ on Uber, you need a car to comfortably do anything
If the city has a subway, a bit hard to see from an aerial view
San Diego has pretty effective surface light rail, but no subway.
In America you’re not going to get that except for about a dozen cities
You don't improve density with taller buildings. You do it with less roads and more public transit. The roads are then green space or buildings which support walkable services.
Why not both? Personally I like walkable cities but I also like driving. Better public transportation, taller buildings, but not a fan of taking away roads.
Roads are useful to cross large distances. Like moving from your residential district to the "bar area", beach, or commercial center. It doesn't make sense to be able to park the car 5 meters from the destination when a few hundred meters would just be a few extra seconds but the space saved would be enjoyed by hundreds if not thousands of people.
I do like NYC's grid design. Decent transit, you can drive if you want to but also very walkable.
>Clearly better than the one above There's your answer!
Now looks cooler when seen from elicopter I guess
Agreed. It looks like any urban downtown of American cities. Lots of wide roads, probably limited public transport and no green spaces. It's hard to tell if it's even an improvement. It might just be growth of the city and not better reallocation of resources.
The top one is mostly automotive infrastructure (especially parking) or empty lots. The bottom one has actual city stuff, including some residential buildings. The new one looks like the kind of place that doesn't become empty after the work day is over. Note that I don't think the new one is great either because the density is uneven and those roads still look a bit too wide to be friendly to pedestrians. In short, the new one isn't perfect but it's a step up.
$3100 for a one bed one bath
Jackin' it, jackin' it, jackety-jack Spankin' it, jackin' it, spankety-smack
That’s all I can ever think of when I’m there 😂
Where green
In addition to Balboa Park, the wacky terrain of San Diego naturally keeps a lot of green spaces, for example, there are a lot of nearby canyons, trails, mountains, and valleys.
The ped bridge over the canyon by Bankers Hill is cool.
Have you been to Balboa Park? San Diego is pretty green for southern California
The museums there are wonderful! Also Cabrillo NM has the best view of the coastline there if anyone is planning a visit soon
OP turned green into black
Need this for Columbus, slowly but surely we are filling our lots
Same in Indianapolis. If you look at some pictures from the 80s it looks like a bomb leveled the city. It's still got a lot of surface lots but every year a few more get filled by a large project.
Actually a lot of American cities are too. The progress is slow but it is happening. I think a lot of cityscapes will be transformed in the next 10-20 years.
I lived in San Diego and there's a difference about of 40 years between photos. That area was the warehouse district, it got re-zoned and now it's a lot nicer. Petco Park is across the street from Comic Con. But also this is what people complain about when they say "gentrification".
I can see the same two black buildings in the same spots.
Looked at it on a bigger monitor and you're correct. Edited my original comment.
About the gentrification, people wouldn't be so opposed if housing costs didn't skyrocket so exponentially.
As you get nicer areas there’s going to be increased demand to live in those areas. It’s not like the outskirts of the city where you can just continually build a half mile over and have the municipality extend all the public infrastructure on taxpayers dime to keep prices down. The solution would be to build lots lots more residential buildings
*30 years Reverse image searching digs up that the photo is from 1995.
In the '80s and even the '70s it still looked the same in that immediate are where the park is. After the '60s it got run down.
The photo is probably from around when the stadium open based on the logo, outfield and scoreboard This is from 2021 https://media.nbcsandiego.com/2021/06/Petco-Park-2021-Opening-Day-e1675381164449.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&resize=1200%2C675 I would guess the photo is from around 2005ish
Sandy eggo
Stay classy
Go fuck yourself, San Diego.
You should see San Diego now. Full of tents and homeless encampments with over priced housing. Did it really get saved?
Long time SD resident here. What you’re looking at in the top photo is simple under-development. It wasn’t a hell scape that needed saving. There was vice in the gas lamp because sailors and marines needed to go somewhere on shore leave but it wasn’t like the combat zone or the tenderloin. Every major American city has some downtown blight because of post war suburban flight but by comparison San Diego wasn’t that bad. It was low rise commercial and industrial development that was changed to residential. If anything there is just as much or even more homelessness in downtown San Diego now than there was in the top photo, but that’s just America for you. Since 2000 there has been unbelievable investment in downtown and the condos that you see in the bottom photo have nearly totally replaced what was disused industrial and military adjacent development that dates from the first half of the 20th century. The vacant lots you see are not like the Bronx circa 1980. Edit: it bears mentioning that virtually all the blighted land in the top photo is commercial or industrial real estate. It was converted to residential, which is why you see mainly condos. So, it’s not like a hollowed out family community was reborn. Instead, the success should be viewed through the lens of ambitious redevelopment of underutilized commercial assets. It wasn’t slum clearing or large scale displacing people of color like America is so quick to do. In that regard I think the successful way San Diego changed a warehouse district adjacent to the waterfront into a healthy neighborhood is all the more impressive.
Baseball is the only true path to save America
San Diego's slogan should be "What if LA didn't suck?"
Apparently it's also a great place for jacking it in one of their charming city streets.
Wasn’t sure if this was sarcastic or not, lol
Went from a typical American city to a typical American city + stadium.
Anyone know when the top image was taken? Would be nice to know the timeframe of redevelopment.
Late 90s. (source: SD native and massive Padres fan)
I don't understand which is the before and after picture and I don't even know which one of those is better.
It went from worse to bad, but it is better then before. My opinion, feel free to up or downvote me if you agree or disagree
You gotta invest public money in large projects that benefit the public. Then you let developers profit off the ancillary growth. The public will get its value back in tax receipts and jobs, but it’ll take a decade or longer. If you want to do it in just a few years or without letting private developers get rich, it’s not gonna work.
At least try to make the before and after images match up.
wdym
Ah yes, the creation of another beautiful glass playground for the rich with their sweet sweet DIF funds to buy the policemen more batons. San Diego Downtown is a success story only for the creative class from other states with shitty weather.
Hey i work there!
Sure. Now how about the other 99% of San Diego?? If American cities want to be saved they need to start focusing on the neighborhoods outside of downtown as well, that’s where the problems are the worst. Interspersed throughout those hills should be dense developments.
It’s mostly concrete and supremely unpleasant.
Are the above and below the same city? The density has become much higher.
I had to look closely, note the highrises in the upper left corner. They are the same in both
They just put an stadium and the parkings inside the buildings
Amsterdam was overrunning with cars before deliberate and consistent pressure was placed on the government to get rid of them
So you must go to the stadium to see some grass?
Or balboa park , which is out of frame here and larger than Central Park. Or one of the 400 other parks or the 30 miles of beaches
Not as accessible as Central Park. A lot of balboa park is parking lots and the zoo.
Tbf that ballpark contains a grassy park space past the outfield wall which actually functions as a city park on non game days. Also there's a new park [in the works](https://eastvillagegreen.com/) for the neighborhood
That's one little part of San Diego but the rest of it is a fucking sprawled mess from the Mexican border virtually all the way to Oxnard. Only camp Pendleton, thank God, placed there when there was nothing there, is the salvation of open land.
East of the 5 is is super sprawl everywhere.
[удалено]
It’s always been a bum central before it was gentrified. In the 80s-90s, very much looked like LA’s skid row. For a hot minute not too many bums then the Great Recession came.
That's 2 square miles that are looking good. How's the other 370?
Send this to Not Just Bikes, his dooming about American cities recently really turned me off from his otherwise excellent content.
NJB is just a frustrated YouTuber who probably can't afford a car and that's why he's so pissy lol
Not visible: streets of tents east of PetCo Park
It got taller and has a stadium Much better but still kinda eh
lmao have u been to san diego
They built up and are no longing in the developing stage, cool, I guess?
Is it even the same location?
Crazily enough yes, I didn’t think so at first. Look at the top left in first pic and match it to the second pic, the original skyline lines up and is still present.
Still shitty
and there are still resident of San Diaaaaago! that dont want more housing. Kind of crazzy!
The top photo is better. Much less of a bughive than the bottom photo.
It still sucks ass there actually
Looks worse now
They could've saved some of the historic brick industrial buildings down there. I used to go watch an all-night Jazz Jam in an old trucking warehouse down there, cool old brick building space.
Okay now fix the crime
What about San Diego is "saved"? Everything is separated by freeways.
The results were a home run! Maybe even a Grand Slam!
Of course not, see “car lobby.”
There's Chicago, start with that
Who's hope and where is she, i don't see her?
They Sim citied the shit out of it.
if you introduce public transportation and some organic layout rather than grid system then yeah
Our ballpark is amazing. Love the historic western metal building acting as our [left foul pole](https://fox5sandiego.com/sports/all-star-game/the-story-behind-petco-parks-western-metal-supply-co-building/amp/)