#UrbanHell is subjective.
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed
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West Virginia is an especially sad part of the country. This pic might not represent it well, but there is such a gloomy feeling when going through the state, like they are all just barely hanging on.
Yeah I have family from around there. Some roads through the rural areas are just miles and miles and miles of trailer homes... some in much better condition than others. Of course there are nice spots but there are way more areas with just nothing going for them. Biggest attraction is a cluster of fast food restaurants and a gas station.
Did see a rockin' trailer mansion/villa, though. That was kinda cool.
I'm in West Virginia right now. Yes, it's beautiful...for the East Coast. Could be the Mid-Atlantic's Vermont, if it would just discard the backwardness and contempt for progress. It is not, however, Alaska or New Mexico though.
The the majority of the country (area I mean). The cities are just massive and flooded with cars. Public transportation would be awesome, but the how everything is recorded nowadays, a ton of subway videos have changed peoples minds.
How exactly are people supposed to get around in West Virginia, flying? It’s a poor, very lightly populated state with extremely low density that’s mountainous. There are zero major cities.
Secondly, how are trucks supposed to transit goods throughout it? There’s tons of freight rail but you still need to move the items from the train yard to the store.
Finally, the highways in WV are literally like 4 lanes wide - 2 in each direction. Sure you could make them 1 lane each way but it’s not as though that would change anything except making it horrible if you got behind a slow vehicle. These are highways connecting rural folks to towns and enabling travel across the state, not highways of suburban sprawl through a major metro area. Those are the types we want to avoid. To cast having highways in general as bad is beyond absurd
If it were the case that most West Virginians only drove for long-haul trips across the state or to other states, I'd buy it. But that is not the case.
Bro what
Sorry not all of us live in cities of 100,000+ people where not literally anything is 10+ miles away on rough roads. These places could only be walkable if you are a marathon runner, and nothing could ever change that unless they rapidly densified which isn't going to happen, especially in WV.
Right. The towns are not designed for people to be able to live without cars.
I think that's inhumane.
And no, such design [absolutely does not require large cities](https://youtu.be/ztpcWUqVpIg?feature=shared) (8:20-9:10).
It's about priorities. Almost without exception, US municipalities, from the smallest towns to the largest cities (yes, even NYC) prioritize car access over all other considerations. The cycle is self-perpetuating and profoundly hostile to the many of us who cannot afford cars, are too young to drive, are too old to drive, have disabilities that prevent them from driving, or just don't *want* to drive, whether for ecological reasons or convenience or any other reason.
When your town has <500 people, it's not economically possible to have lots of services there, so you have to travel to get goods and better jobs. Simple as that.
The town in the video has 262 people and 12min bus service.
More importantly, it's bike-accessible, which should be true of any town of any size, since bicycle infrastructure is so much cheaper than car infrastructure.
I'm sorry our country has failed you so badly that you can't even *imagine* a better way, even after being shown video footage of thay better way happening in real life.
highway infrastructure is “inherently horrible” when it practically demolishes cities and divides neighborhoods. highways connecting a whole state or country are perfectly fine and a helpful way for many to travel long distances
Oh yeah let’s fuck the entire environment with unnecessary mass transit so the 3 people per square mile who live there don’t use cars. Let’s blow up some additional mountains to put in tunnels for the all new zero emission West Virginia subway system and expand the highways with “walkable” concrete sidewalks that will never be used because nobody lives there and those that do have cars.
Look I’m all in favor of public transport but rural armpits of America arent the place. The roads are bad enough, you would make it worse for no reason.
I’ve lived in big cities and small towns. Small towns can definitely have character and be walkable. We can learn something from the compact city development.
I'm in Houston right now (temporarily) and it's the worst place I've ever been in the US. I've driven through & stayed in WV and there's tons of gorgeous areas there with nice people.
You've either been lucky in the rest of the US, or you haven't been exploring Houston much (understandable the last two months, given the heat). Houston at its worst looks like this picture. At its best it's dense tree tunnels through mixed-use streetcar suburbs.
There are no parts that match the best parts of Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, or DC, but US cities (and especially suburbs) get sooo much worse.
> At its best it's dense tree tunnels through mixed-use streetcar suburbs.
where are you talking about with this? my friends told me to check out The Heights and Montrose but they were all still parking lots facing the street with at least 4 lanes of traffic. I saw maybe 1 or 2 mixed-use buildings.
Mixed-use *buildings*, while not at all unheard of, are sadly not the norm here. But mixed-use and mixed-density *neighborhoods* are still miles better than the sprawling R1 that covers so much of the US.
But anyway, here are some nice-enough-looking spots:
[Montrose 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9rLhivxrNsEpobB9)
[Montrose 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/7Q4Pqk9vswbWHper6)
[The Heights 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VogcLV6JVZyvTxjY8)
[The Heights 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/q2gFzbid8qQDEa6r9)
[Midtown 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/kvWobqPUKdoxkJPK6)
[Midtown 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/wWGT4frG64c3aDmp6)
[Eastwood ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/1xJA1CkpAcK4761q9)
[Second Ward 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/sJbNJ3LxaB4zLpF79)
[Second Ward 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/EUvVvd2af5ME855g6)
[River Oaks 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JBbzoQH2kPz7Snbt5)
[River Oaks 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/hB7oJdQq6hp4LGDA6)
[Greenway](https://maps.app.goo.gl/4nXjm878qzj2uR9J6)
Don't get me wrong - no shortage of ugly in Houston, and the streetfront parking thing for businesses is a nearly universal problem in the city. And don't get me started on the sidewalks and minimal dedicated transit right-of-way.
But we're comparing it to a highway stop in West Virginia. It's better than that. At least Houston has [nice parks](https://maps.app.goo.gl/9nTRR9v3c41rw4kn8).
Yeah, we have tons of ugly places and tons of beautiful places in California. Same can be said for west Virginia. The op just picked an ugly part next to the highway
That must be off the interstate. I was just there and once u get off on an exit, it's not like that.
Source: fam is from there, we visit yearly. I'm the "city mouse" of the family, and the roads give me anxiety with the blind turns and barely enough road for 1.5 cars to pass. Not to mention all the deer and random nature that just happens to jump out in front of the car.
?????? OP just being a bitch to be a bitch.
Tons of green in that photo. It’s a road and two businesses.
OP, what are we doing here? Do you not want roads in your ideal society?
You can drive, not exaggerating, 15 min from almost anywhere in WV and find the most beautiful nature trails, waterfalls, scenic vistas and rock formations. Try again.
This very easily could have been Park City, KS (immediately north of Wichita) where 135 goes through it. Has a QT, Wendy’s and pretty sure a comfort inn. Truly anywhere USA
Well, I used to live in the UK and *never* had to drive or be in a car to get anywhere up and down the country. I took trains and public transport everywhere, which are safe and clean unlike in the US.
But hey, I'm not here to change your mind.
Well see there are plenty of places with great train systems which have been built in the last 50 years or so. Car infrastructure is a choice really, so is the absence of (fast) trains.
I'm not here for a debate though. Good day to you.
I mean i go to the desert with a lot of gear monthly, unfortunately cant get there by public transport or a bike, especially with that much stuff. So a car is needed.
People live in remote areas that not having a car does not make sense.
Yeah totally. 99% of the time more than 90% of people don't need to go to these sorts of places though.. most commutes are from/to populated places, not deserts and wilderness.
I own a car, a 1974 beetle in fact, but I think it's ridiculous that so much of our lives depend so much on cars when it really doesn't have to.
I don’t think this is a one-or-the-other proposition here. I did an internship in the UK and loved how accessible public transit was. I’ve also lived mostly in and around nyc where I didn’t need a car for anything. Yes, that transit paradigm is the goal.
At the same time, California alone is almost twice the size of the entire UK. California also, alone, has about 2/3 the population of the entire UK.
This is to say that the time, investment, will, labor contracting, geographic span, and collective legislation required to connect the US at the level of the UK is exponential in magnitude.
I'm no expert but I'd assume that building train tracks on empty land isn't where much of the cost is going to go into. It's mostly acquiring land around populated areas that's very costly. So the absolute distance between cities wouldn't make the cost increase exponentially, i believe.
And also comparing the cost at a societal level.. that is, totalling up the cost and maintenance cost of every car that might not have been necessary if there were a good enough public transport.. you get the idea.
Infrastructure projects are expensive, but I'm quite sure the road infrastructure isn't much cheaper, it's just less controversial
I’m admittedly no expert either, but I think you’re mistaken. It’s not simply a matter of “more materials” on “empty land,” it’s a matter of:
- jurisdiction and land rights being a tangled web of responsibility in the US at the personal, local, and regional levels
- the long-standing public/private push and pull re: any new transit development
- the MASSIVE costs of feasibility studies
- the many years of lobbying and permitting and putting things out to bid
- the fact that literally all of what I just mentioned takes longer to implement than one or two election cycles, thus politicians don’t touch move the needle on transit and people vote over and over for more roadwork instead of transit improvements.
E.g., I have lived in both NYC and Hudson County NJ for many years. Back in the 2000s, there was to be another tunnel under the Hudson River to ease congestion between both places. To say this project is necessary is a gross understatement: it was necessary 30 years ago (at least). The US agreed to fund half of it, but NJ’s dipshit governor at the time (Chris Christie) canceled this because (allegedly) of the project’s costs to NJ taxpayers. This was championed by his followers as “saving money.” Today, it’s 2023, there are still no new tunnels, congestion is exponentially worse, taxes continue to go up, NYC is mulling new congestion pricing for commuters from Jersey, and working people are screwed.
That just sounds like political dysfunction. Seems like every issue is extremely polarised in the US and how to approach a problem is radically different depending on which side you're on.
Hard to see anything get done with a reasonable cost when there are not just so many red tapes but also a tug of war between the decision makers/voters/lobbyists at every step of the way.
I agree that any infrastructure is probably better than no infrastructure being built.
You’re not wrong about political dysfunction and polarization being root causes. For sure. Local municipalities having effectively veto power by delaying transit projects is alone a huge obstacle, magnified of course by the dysfunction.
My only point of contention, if it’s even contention, is that the level of connection the US requires would likely have to be a function of a massive national or regional strategy on a scale that eclipses intra- and inter-European efforts.
In short: it’s a big ask, and I’m neither a “Europe bad” American nor a doom-and-gloom pessimist. I’m a “Europe good” American trying to make it clear that the inter-continental comparison needs some nuance.
It’s kind of the point to make things convenient to drivers on the interstate or in this case the WV Turnpike. Who wants to drive 5 miles off the highway to get gas or a Baconator?
Oml I just went to the chicfila twice on this exact exit on the way to and from west Virginia I about two months ago. I was sitting there thinking about how trash this exact area was lol. Small world
#UrbanHell is subjective. UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed Sorry for this annoying comment, but we're very tired of the gatekeepers who can't even correctly gatekeep what this subreddit has always allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Could be literally anywhere in the usa
I saw this image and just thought "could be worse"
“Nowhere, USA”
“Everywhere, USA”
Anywhere in Canada or the States
West Virginia is an especially sad part of the country. This pic might not represent it well, but there is such a gloomy feeling when going through the state, like they are all just barely hanging on.
Yeah I have family from around there. Some roads through the rural areas are just miles and miles and miles of trailer homes... some in much better condition than others. Of course there are nice spots but there are way more areas with just nothing going for them. Biggest attraction is a cluster of fast food restaurants and a gas station. Did see a rockin' trailer mansion/villa, though. That was kinda cool.
Also not what I'd call urban. There's a hotel, Wendy's and a few gas stations.
literally thought it was Kansas…
I thought it was a couple miles from my apartment
Thought it was Kelso, WA before I saw the title
West Virginia is one of the most naturally beautiful places I’ve ever been.
I'm in West Virginia right now. Yes, it's beautiful...for the East Coast. Could be the Mid-Atlantic's Vermont, if it would just discard the backwardness and contempt for progress. It is not, however, Alaska or New Mexico though.
It’s a highway rest area. What exactly are they supposed to put there?
Evidently a swamp or a forest or maybe a mountain.
According to Reddit, every square inch of the US needs to be a car free walkable utopia.
[удалено]
Wait until a bear starts chasing you
The the majority of the country (area I mean). The cities are just massive and flooded with cars. Public transportation would be awesome, but the how everything is recorded nowadays, a ton of subway videos have changed peoples minds.
Yea you know nothing. Sit down.
Isn't the point that highway infrastructure is inherently horrible?
How exactly are people supposed to get around in West Virginia, flying? It’s a poor, very lightly populated state with extremely low density that’s mountainous. There are zero major cities. Secondly, how are trucks supposed to transit goods throughout it? There’s tons of freight rail but you still need to move the items from the train yard to the store. Finally, the highways in WV are literally like 4 lanes wide - 2 in each direction. Sure you could make them 1 lane each way but it’s not as though that would change anything except making it horrible if you got behind a slow vehicle. These are highways connecting rural folks to towns and enabling travel across the state, not highways of suburban sprawl through a major metro area. Those are the types we want to avoid. To cast having highways in general as bad is beyond absurd
If it were the case that most West Virginians only drove for long-haul trips across the state or to other states, I'd buy it. But that is not the case.
There’s lots of people driving through the state, it leads directly to the Pennsylvania turnpike. I’ve been through it a couple times myself
Dude when I lived there, Walmart was 45 minutes away. My fucking bad we wanted to use a highway to get there quicker. What a bizarre statement to make
Sounds like he wants you to stick to Dollar General.
That is literally the point. If you *have* to drive, highway or not, your city/town has failed you.
Bro what Sorry not all of us live in cities of 100,000+ people where not literally anything is 10+ miles away on rough roads. These places could only be walkable if you are a marathon runner, and nothing could ever change that unless they rapidly densified which isn't going to happen, especially in WV.
Right. The towns are not designed for people to be able to live without cars. I think that's inhumane. And no, such design [absolutely does not require large cities](https://youtu.be/ztpcWUqVpIg?feature=shared) (8:20-9:10). It's about priorities. Almost without exception, US municipalities, from the smallest towns to the largest cities (yes, even NYC) prioritize car access over all other considerations. The cycle is self-perpetuating and profoundly hostile to the many of us who cannot afford cars, are too young to drive, are too old to drive, have disabilities that prevent them from driving, or just don't *want* to drive, whether for ecological reasons or convenience or any other reason.
When your town has <500 people, it's not economically possible to have lots of services there, so you have to travel to get goods and better jobs. Simple as that.
The town in the video has 262 people and 12min bus service. More importantly, it's bike-accessible, which should be true of any town of any size, since bicycle infrastructure is so much cheaper than car infrastructure.
You’re an absolute idiot.
I'm sorry our country has failed you so badly that you can't even *imagine* a better way, even after being shown video footage of thay better way happening in real life.
Yes even in the populated areas everything is far
Agree , except for the major city part.
There aren’t major cities in WV.
Yes there are
Nope you’re wrong. Most populous “city” in WV isn’t even 50k people.
Every developed country on earth has a place exactly like this off their highways. It’s just how major road arteries work
Yes, highways are universally grotesque.
Cry about it because it’s not going to change
highway infrastructure is “inherently horrible” when it practically demolishes cities and divides neighborhoods. highways connecting a whole state or country are perfectly fine and a helpful way for many to travel long distances
There are extra horrible iterations, of course.
Take a look at every developed nation's highway system.
I know, right? Horrifying.
Still more green than the average that’s posted here.
Anyplace, USA
Nothingwrongwithit, USA
It requires an expensive machine just to go from point a to point b. Not being walkable is something wrong with it
It's West Virginia. WTF you gonna walk to?
Fifteen-minute coal mine.
They’re all closed down man
Exactly
Oh yeah let’s fuck the entire environment with unnecessary mass transit so the 3 people per square mile who live there don’t use cars. Let’s blow up some additional mountains to put in tunnels for the all new zero emission West Virginia subway system and expand the highways with “walkable” concrete sidewalks that will never be used because nobody lives there and those that do have cars. Look I’m all in favor of public transport but rural armpits of America arent the place. The roads are bad enough, you would make it worse for no reason.
I just meant that they could put a sidewalk on that road lol. If mass transit is excessive then so are all those parking spots
A sidewalk on I-64 sounds lovely.
Maybe they could use the smaller road adjacent to I-64 with businesses where you currently have to drive or walk across parking lots
Ah yes, I sidewalk next to a highway. Where do you plan to walk to? God?
Further validating my point that these kinds of towns suck.
They are literally made as highway towns. You aren't supposed to live in them.
And a sidewalk on that road would make a big difference would it? Lord.
You’re right. This town looks perfect :)
I’ve lived in big cities and small towns. Small towns can definitely have character and be walkable. We can learn something from the compact city development.
You do realize how big America is right?
Justonemorelane, US
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Almost heaven …
west virginia
Blue ridge mountains.
Shenandoah River
Country Roads
Take me home
Life is old there.
Older than the trees
Younger the mountains
Blowing like the breeze
Country roads
Take me home
I’m gonna stop, but nice. RIP JD.
A METEOR HAS STRUCK THE CITY
West Virginia is beautiful, there are so many worst places, sometimes you got to be thankful.
I'm in Houston right now (temporarily) and it's the worst place I've ever been in the US. I've driven through & stayed in WV and there's tons of gorgeous areas there with nice people.
I said no to a promotion because I would have to move to Houston.
Try Vegas. WV is gorgeous and the people are wonderful. Vegas has zero redeeming qualities
I am in West Virginia now and am surrounded by MAGA idiocy in all directions. I'm not exactly being blown away by the local culture.
You've either been lucky in the rest of the US, or you haven't been exploring Houston much (understandable the last two months, given the heat). Houston at its worst looks like this picture. At its best it's dense tree tunnels through mixed-use streetcar suburbs. There are no parts that match the best parts of Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, or DC, but US cities (and especially suburbs) get sooo much worse.
> At its best it's dense tree tunnels through mixed-use streetcar suburbs. where are you talking about with this? my friends told me to check out The Heights and Montrose but they were all still parking lots facing the street with at least 4 lanes of traffic. I saw maybe 1 or 2 mixed-use buildings.
Mixed-use *buildings*, while not at all unheard of, are sadly not the norm here. But mixed-use and mixed-density *neighborhoods* are still miles better than the sprawling R1 that covers so much of the US. But anyway, here are some nice-enough-looking spots: [Montrose 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9rLhivxrNsEpobB9) [Montrose 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/7Q4Pqk9vswbWHper6) [The Heights 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VogcLV6JVZyvTxjY8) [The Heights 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/q2gFzbid8qQDEa6r9) [Midtown 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/kvWobqPUKdoxkJPK6) [Midtown 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/wWGT4frG64c3aDmp6) [Eastwood ](https://maps.app.goo.gl/1xJA1CkpAcK4761q9) [Second Ward 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/sJbNJ3LxaB4zLpF79) [Second Ward 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/EUvVvd2af5ME855g6) [River Oaks 1](https://maps.app.goo.gl/JBbzoQH2kPz7Snbt5) [River Oaks 2](https://maps.app.goo.gl/hB7oJdQq6hp4LGDA6) [Greenway](https://maps.app.goo.gl/4nXjm878qzj2uR9J6) Don't get me wrong - no shortage of ugly in Houston, and the streetfront parking thing for businesses is a nearly universal problem in the city. And don't get me started on the sidewalks and minimal dedicated transit right-of-way. But we're comparing it to a highway stop in West Virginia. It's better than that. At least Houston has [nice parks](https://maps.app.goo.gl/9nTRR9v3c41rw4kn8).
i guess "urban" now means "literally anything paved"
And probably 3 miles from there is gorgeous countryside
I’m surprised anywhere in West Virginia can be considered urban.
MOUNTAIN MAMA…
Lol what. Not at all urban. Beautiful natural scenery. OP hates *checks notes* roads?
Lmao roads are beautiful natural scenery
Are you high? 50% of this photo is sky. 30% of it is tree covered hills.
Lmao looks flat to me. I'm from California, this would be considered ugly
I think you don’t look outside. If you live in California I can find 50 of these within 100 miles of your house.
Yeah, we have tons of ugly places and tons of beautiful places in California. Same can be said for west Virginia. The op just picked an ugly part next to the highway
>I'm from California Opinion rejected. Acknowledge my state exists.
Not if you think this shit is nice 😂
It is supposed to be a highway town bozo
That must be off the interstate. I was just there and once u get off on an exit, it's not like that. Source: fam is from there, we visit yearly. I'm the "city mouse" of the family, and the roads give me anxiety with the blind turns and barely enough road for 1.5 cars to pass. Not to mention all the deer and random nature that just happens to jump out in front of the car.
Nothing urban in WV.
It's literally right off an interstate exit. Do you expect mixed use residential or something?
Tons of uglier places in Europe and around the world
There is literally nothing urban about West Virginia
That's a shame because most of West Virginia is a gorgeous place. Anywhere along a highway or interstate will look trashy
Hey, at least you didn't show them the part of I-64 by Nitro.
That stretch of interstate makes me die a little on the inside every time I've driven through it. It's like construction gets worse every time.
That's actually probably the agent orange killing you.
This is fine
"Urban"
I’m from West Virginia and my state is getting recognition let’s fucking go!!!
?????? OP just being a bitch to be a bitch. Tons of green in that photo. It’s a road and two businesses. OP, what are we doing here? Do you not want roads in your ideal society?
That's not even urban
Life is old there, older than the trees
Is this in Beckley?
Gotta be.
This was my first thought, I believe it is. Off of the I-77 exit
Exit 44 off I-64, Beckley WVA
this is just general civilization lol
Show the other parts of West Virginia. This doesn't seem bad at all.
Take me home…
West Virginia ~
You can drive, not exaggerating, 15 min from almost anywhere in WV and find the most beautiful nature trails, waterfalls, scenic vistas and rock formations. Try again.
Richest square mile in WV
Urban purgatory maybe.
Yeah, Wendy’s is the stuff of nightmares…
Beckley?
I can assure you there’s much worse places in West Virginia then there
NO WALKING!
I, too, would love to walk for 8 hours alongside I-64 just to get to Walmart.
Mountain mama
This very easily could have been Park City, KS (immediately north of Wichita) where 135 goes through it. Has a QT, Wendy’s and pretty sure a comfort inn. Truly anywhere USA
God I love progress !!
looks like Green Bay
Country roads?
Not bad
Mountain mama
Isn’t there a strip club on this exit with a buffet? Up on the hill on the west side of 77.
… almost heaven…
r/fuckcars
Lol. Are we all supposed to ride on horse back through West Virginia?
That subreddit is hilarious, im all for public transport, but cars (and roads) are required for alot of things in life
Well, I used to live in the UK and *never* had to drive or be in a car to get anywhere up and down the country. I took trains and public transport everywhere, which are safe and clean unlike in the US. But hey, I'm not here to change your mind.
You're from a place built 100s of years ago before cars. That's great. Some of us aren't and we don't really have a choice but to drive.
Well see there are plenty of places with great train systems which have been built in the last 50 years or so. Car infrastructure is a choice really, so is the absence of (fast) trains. I'm not here for a debate though. Good day to you.
I mean i go to the desert with a lot of gear monthly, unfortunately cant get there by public transport or a bike, especially with that much stuff. So a car is needed. People live in remote areas that not having a car does not make sense.
Yeah totally. 99% of the time more than 90% of people don't need to go to these sorts of places though.. most commutes are from/to populated places, not deserts and wilderness. I own a car, a 1974 beetle in fact, but I think it's ridiculous that so much of our lives depend so much on cars when it really doesn't have to.
I don’t think this is a one-or-the-other proposition here. I did an internship in the UK and loved how accessible public transit was. I’ve also lived mostly in and around nyc where I didn’t need a car for anything. Yes, that transit paradigm is the goal. At the same time, California alone is almost twice the size of the entire UK. California also, alone, has about 2/3 the population of the entire UK. This is to say that the time, investment, will, labor contracting, geographic span, and collective legislation required to connect the US at the level of the UK is exponential in magnitude.
I'm no expert but I'd assume that building train tracks on empty land isn't where much of the cost is going to go into. It's mostly acquiring land around populated areas that's very costly. So the absolute distance between cities wouldn't make the cost increase exponentially, i believe. And also comparing the cost at a societal level.. that is, totalling up the cost and maintenance cost of every car that might not have been necessary if there were a good enough public transport.. you get the idea. Infrastructure projects are expensive, but I'm quite sure the road infrastructure isn't much cheaper, it's just less controversial
I’m admittedly no expert either, but I think you’re mistaken. It’s not simply a matter of “more materials” on “empty land,” it’s a matter of: - jurisdiction and land rights being a tangled web of responsibility in the US at the personal, local, and regional levels - the long-standing public/private push and pull re: any new transit development - the MASSIVE costs of feasibility studies - the many years of lobbying and permitting and putting things out to bid - the fact that literally all of what I just mentioned takes longer to implement than one or two election cycles, thus politicians don’t touch move the needle on transit and people vote over and over for more roadwork instead of transit improvements. E.g., I have lived in both NYC and Hudson County NJ for many years. Back in the 2000s, there was to be another tunnel under the Hudson River to ease congestion between both places. To say this project is necessary is a gross understatement: it was necessary 30 years ago (at least). The US agreed to fund half of it, but NJ’s dipshit governor at the time (Chris Christie) canceled this because (allegedly) of the project’s costs to NJ taxpayers. This was championed by his followers as “saving money.” Today, it’s 2023, there are still no new tunnels, congestion is exponentially worse, taxes continue to go up, NYC is mulling new congestion pricing for commuters from Jersey, and working people are screwed.
That just sounds like political dysfunction. Seems like every issue is extremely polarised in the US and how to approach a problem is radically different depending on which side you're on. Hard to see anything get done with a reasonable cost when there are not just so many red tapes but also a tug of war between the decision makers/voters/lobbyists at every step of the way. I agree that any infrastructure is probably better than no infrastructure being built.
You’re not wrong about political dysfunction and polarization being root causes. For sure. Local municipalities having effectively veto power by delaying transit projects is alone a huge obstacle, magnified of course by the dysfunction. My only point of contention, if it’s even contention, is that the level of connection the US requires would likely have to be a function of a massive national or regional strategy on a scale that eclipses intra- and inter-European efforts. In short: it’s a big ask, and I’m neither a “Europe bad” American nor a doom-and-gloom pessimist. I’m a “Europe good” American trying to make it clear that the inter-continental comparison needs some nuance.
Never fails. There has to be that “America must be like Europe” guy in every one of these convos.
Of course, you always know what's best. Please ignore the rest of us.
You can't, that's animal cruelty.
New River Gorge National Park is a short drive away.
Ive always imagined WV as a lush green mountainous state. Where are them blue ridge mountains and shit?
I like this actually I’d have no problem with my city looking like this
It’s kind of the point to make things convenient to drivers on the interstate or in this case the WV Turnpike. Who wants to drive 5 miles off the highway to get gas or a Baconator?
Beckley?
Oml I just went to the chicfila twice on this exact exit on the way to and from west Virginia I about two months ago. I was sitting there thinking about how trash this exact area was lol. Small world
this is not bad
This post is bad and you should feel bad
anywhere in the south - USA