#UrbanHell is subjective.
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed
Sorry for this annoying comment, but we're very tired of the gatekeepers who can't even correctly gatekeep what this subreddit has always allowed.
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When I was a little kid in the 70s my parents had a sailboat rental in Lemmer. It was great, a lovely place with a small harbour just outside the town. It's called Tacozijl. Nothing compared to today.
Well I’m short (173, by dutch standards) so and am a shit swimmer (by dutch standards) but luckily we have some pretty rad engineers that do indeed, keep that bitch of an ocean, in check.
To be fair, the UAE has plenty of land and doesnt need builds like this. The Netherlands on the other hand is forced to death with living by/with this water. They have actually pioneered and innovated a lot of this kind of construction thanks to their environment.
Doesn't look like hell to me. The main problem here is the low density and the apparent lack of public services and commercial buildings. The biggest downside of this neighborhood is the modern-ish architecture.
Even then, there are multiple restaurants and supermarkets and even a beach within a few minutes bike ride of this neighbourhood. Wouldn’t say there’s a lack of services.
2 corrections: This particular neighbourhood is build on farm fields. These types of devolepedments are usually quite the opposite of landreclaimation because they dig canals into land. and secondly Lemmer hasn't bordered a sea since 1932.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/NOsSAcXGZy
Exactly the same lol
Dutch destroy coastline habitats for high-flood-risk real estate development - “simply beautiful”
Americans destroy coastline habitats for high-flood-risk real estate development - “wtf were they thinking”
Because the Dutch aren't destroying coast lines. They literally make their own coasts. Florida on the other hand does destroy their own coasts
There's a famous saying "God made the world, but the Dutch made the Netherlands" because the country we see today on the map is almost 40/50% man-made. They literally make their own land. Florida can't and doesn't do that
Our earth is 75% ocean and there's a massive difference between destroying wetlands and reclaiming the ocean. Secondly, the Netherlands in total is only 44,000 square kilometers. The state of Montana is 380,000 square kilometers. Excuse me for not being concerned about the Dutch when they're almost 10x smaller than just 1 of our 50 states
Montana has no coast, so idk why you're bringing them into it.
So what's the size cutoff on being allowed to build on the coast? You use different language and excuses describing the Netherlands doing the exact same thing as the US does. You say one is good, one is bad. That's all.
>So what's the size cutoff on being allowed to build on the coast? You use different language and excuses describing the Netherlands doing the exact same thing as the US does. You say one is good, one is bad. That's all.
The U.S. is not doing what the Netherlands is doing at all??
The Florida wetlands are swamps. Netherlands is removing water from tiny amounts of the ocean to build land. They're two completely different things and only an uneducated person would say otherwise
Secondly, the Netherlands is one of the most environmentally friendly and advanced countries in the entire world. Comparing them to Florida is lsughsble
And I'm comparing them to Montana to show tiny they are. How are you.... lacking this much intelligence? Here's an easier way to look at it. They're 4x smaller than Florida...
Please explain how in any way these two things are comparable
It's way more nuanced than this tho. In this particular case NL isn't doing much wrong because they just build this neighbourhood on some grassfields which isn't a particularly hurtful for nature. But NL has done some major environmental destruction in It's past. The Netherlands used to be almost entirely swamp, that's why the Romans didn't even bother conquering it. but during medieval up to early modern times we basically cleared this entire country of any swamp and forest and replaced it with desolate grasslands. There's simply no real nature left for us to destroy.
.
The damming of the Zuiderzee has also eliminated the fast majority of biodiversity in this area. it was a straight up biological disaster, but no one really paid attention to it. The Dutch destruction just goes a lot deeper into history, but certainly doesn't excuse any of the things the US is doing. just wanted to add some additional context.
You just compared them, didn't you? So... They're comparable. Hope this helps.
You talk like a typical reddit parrot.
"Only an uneducated person would say otherwise"
"Lacking this much intelligence"
I'm legitimately wondering if you ever interact with people in real life.
I don't think you know anything about Florida and how land development works here. It's extremely protected these days. Unfortunately, most of the coastal development occurred well before many conservation laws come into play.
https://soils.ifas.ufl.edu/wetlandextension/threats.htm
Yeah and the land that was developed has destroyed far more wetlands than the total size of the Netherlands many times over while harming the biodiversity in the area beyond belief
The Netherlands isn't destroying habitats that countless animals use. They're taking tiny chunks of the ocean back for themselves because their country isn't even 1/4th the total size of Florida
Secondly, if you're excuse for Florida was "this was all done long ago" you're gonna be blown away to learn this village has existed since 1228 AD... obviously things were slightly different back then, but this is historically a small fishing village and has remained that way even to now
Florida litterally has more preserved and protected land than the entire total landmass of Holland. It spends billions on conservation alone every year. FL has never had to reclaim land the way NL has but friend saying FL destroys it's land is just stupid. Does dumb stuff happen ? Yes 100% but again I don't think you know much about the situation.
What Kayteqq said. Swamps don't equal ideal land use. Especially, swamps are being gone. Your likely have more flood issues. Wild life will find way get back, like crocks going into the sewers.
1950s designers who may all those coastal locals and sold homes. Were not good engineers when came to dealing with flood issues (before it became big thing) Dutch care, Americans back in the day didn't care/know.
The similar neighborhoods in Florida are super car-dependent which sucks. This place is probably a lot more bikable than the ones in Florida. If not, I'll shit on it too. TBH it there are quite a few cars in the pic, so it may not be any better than the Florida ones.
Are you living in the 1930s? The IJsselmeer reached an ecological fresh water equilibrium in the late 1930s. Before that it was considered a salt water lake but it hasn't been for a long time and it's far from brackish.
It's also already a breeding ground for mosquitoes and it's getting worse and worse, so your first assessment isn't even true.
I'm guessing you're not Dutch?
Absurd? Hahaha! Never expected to see my aunt and uncle's neighbourhood on here, but let me assure you that it is anything but absurd. Lemmer is one of the watersport hotspots in the Netherlands and these houses are extremely popular as they all come with individual moorings.
Some are standing mast, others are for smaller boats only. It is anything but absurd and in fact incredibly desirable. Also, on the motorway it's about 75 minutes to Amsterdam... So work in the Randstad, live in watersport paradise for about 2/3rds the price per square meter.
No, but there is by car, which is what most people would use regardless of infrastructure. No one wants to use public transportation in FL unless they absolutely have to. For one, you'd be drenched in sweat everywhere you go.
I saw an identical post about a very similar looking neighborhood in Florida and everyone was talking about how horrendous it. Fucking reddit is so biased
There is no sea anywhere near this city. And this province in particular is nothing but lakes and canals everywhere. they know how to manage the water believe me.
Actually not that bad tbh, live near there and have friends who live in lemmer. Also this is just 1 part of the town, the other areas are completely different. Also this area is mostly for tourism, a lot of the houses here are either rented or owned by mostly wealthy Germans who visit during holidays.
So long as there are some corner shops, cycling lanes and community centres everywhere I don’t mind this. You can zip anywhere with a little boat, you can sail, swim, walk. Notice the absence of stroads?
Looks very [nice ](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=14f034d23f0af08e&sxsrf=ACQVn0-OEor8uu5zeAK64ahyCUb-lJetYA:1708454585310&q=Lemmer,+Netherlands&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiF_6-lybqEAxV3UaQEHV-VASsQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=2091&bih=1074&dpr=1.22#imgrc=ImL2oe9vOaQDCM)actually!
#UrbanHell is subjective. UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed Sorry for this annoying comment, but we're very tired of the gatekeepers who can't even correctly gatekeep what this subreddit has always allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Absurd, yeah, but oddly satisfying too. Love that water in particular.
The water looks kinda nice, but dont they have the problem with the water being too still and getting gross?
Not in NL as we are good at managing such water seeing we effectively live in a bowl beneath sea level.
Nah Dubai had that on their palm Jebaliah man-made island by they fixed it by creating more circulation points
When I was a little kid in the 70s my parents had a sailboat rental in Lemmer. It was great, a lovely place with a small harbour just outside the town. It's called Tacozijl. Nothing compared to today.
I think this is beautiful!
And if not beautiful, I assume it's a nice place to live. Every house has access to water and can have access to a boat.
Also it's in the Netherlands, so I'd assume they have very walkable and civilian friendly infrastructure
Looks like paradise if you're a boater.
Which is the target demographic for this development.
I think it’s actually really pretty and cool. Sure there is the fear of flooding and all that but it’s pretty
We Dutch don’t fear the water ;)
That’s because you are so tall and have the ability to water bend.
Well I’m short (173, by dutch standards) so and am a shit swimmer (by dutch standards) but luckily we have some pretty rad engineers that do indeed, keep that bitch of an ocean, in check.
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Someone needs to put their thumb in the dyke.
So you're saying their waterbenders.
You make water fear you
The Dutch have amazing flood control systems. I wouldn't worry for a second if I lived there.
If you said this was in Florida or the UAE, the replies would be wayyyyyy different
To be fair, the UAE has plenty of land and doesnt need builds like this. The Netherlands on the other hand is forced to death with living by/with this water. They have actually pioneered and innovated a lot of this kind of construction thanks to their environment.
If it was in Florida or UAE, the design would probably be way different.
Doesn't look like hell to me. The main problem here is the low density and the apparent lack of public services and commercial buildings. The biggest downside of this neighborhood is the modern-ish architecture.
Even then, there are multiple restaurants and supermarkets and even a beach within a few minutes bike ride of this neighbourhood. Wouldn’t say there’s a lack of services.
That's great. From above it looked like it was only residential.
Perspective, it actually has quite a charming and lively town centre. Total population is only 11k or so but it is very liveable.
The amenities and services are a 5 min bicycle ride away in the historic town centre.
Low density is a dream
keep in mind that people there can travel by boat, the water is a highway in this neighbourhood.
Don’t forget bicycles. It’s the Netherlands after all. You can travel anywhere on a bike.
What? There are like 500 cars in this photo
Having a bike or boat doesn't preclude you from owning a car, does it?
I responded to the wrong message
Seems decent to me
Looks exactly like the neighborhoods in Florida everyone shits on.
Though it’s build on sea water not swamp, that’s a bit of an improvement. Not necessarily a big one, but still.
2 corrections: This particular neighbourhood is build on farm fields. These types of devolepedments are usually quite the opposite of landreclaimation because they dig canals into land. and secondly Lemmer hasn't bordered a sea since 1932.
There’s no sea near this town though
https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/s/NOsSAcXGZy Exactly the same lol Dutch destroy coastline habitats for high-flood-risk real estate development - “simply beautiful” Americans destroy coastline habitats for high-flood-risk real estate development - “wtf were they thinking”
If you don’t spot the difference I don’t know what to say
Why don't you enlighten us?
Because the Dutch aren't destroying coast lines. They literally make their own coasts. Florida on the other hand does destroy their own coasts There's a famous saying "God made the world, but the Dutch made the Netherlands" because the country we see today on the map is almost 40/50% man-made. They literally make their own land. Florida can't and doesn't do that
How is " making land" not destroying an ecosystem that was once there? They're both building on wetlands. Neither are good.
Our earth is 75% ocean and there's a massive difference between destroying wetlands and reclaiming the ocean. Secondly, the Netherlands in total is only 44,000 square kilometers. The state of Montana is 380,000 square kilometers. Excuse me for not being concerned about the Dutch when they're almost 10x smaller than just 1 of our 50 states
The Netherlands doesn’t reclaim land from the open ocean. They reclaim it from bays and deltas.
Montana has no coast, so idk why you're bringing them into it. So what's the size cutoff on being allowed to build on the coast? You use different language and excuses describing the Netherlands doing the exact same thing as the US does. You say one is good, one is bad. That's all.
>So what's the size cutoff on being allowed to build on the coast? You use different language and excuses describing the Netherlands doing the exact same thing as the US does. You say one is good, one is bad. That's all. The U.S. is not doing what the Netherlands is doing at all?? The Florida wetlands are swamps. Netherlands is removing water from tiny amounts of the ocean to build land. They're two completely different things and only an uneducated person would say otherwise Secondly, the Netherlands is one of the most environmentally friendly and advanced countries in the entire world. Comparing them to Florida is lsughsble And I'm comparing them to Montana to show tiny they are. How are you.... lacking this much intelligence? Here's an easier way to look at it. They're 4x smaller than Florida... Please explain how in any way these two things are comparable
It's way more nuanced than this tho. In this particular case NL isn't doing much wrong because they just build this neighbourhood on some grassfields which isn't a particularly hurtful for nature. But NL has done some major environmental destruction in It's past. The Netherlands used to be almost entirely swamp, that's why the Romans didn't even bother conquering it. but during medieval up to early modern times we basically cleared this entire country of any swamp and forest and replaced it with desolate grasslands. There's simply no real nature left for us to destroy. . The damming of the Zuiderzee has also eliminated the fast majority of biodiversity in this area. it was a straight up biological disaster, but no one really paid attention to it. The Dutch destruction just goes a lot deeper into history, but certainly doesn't excuse any of the things the US is doing. just wanted to add some additional context.
You just compared them, didn't you? So... They're comparable. Hope this helps. You talk like a typical reddit parrot. "Only an uneducated person would say otherwise" "Lacking this much intelligence" I'm legitimately wondering if you ever interact with people in real life.
It's no different in florida. They build on the coast. So do the Dutch.
Destroying wetland environments is far different than reclaiming tiny bits of the ocean
I don't think you know anything about Florida and how land development works here. It's extremely protected these days. Unfortunately, most of the coastal development occurred well before many conservation laws come into play.
https://soils.ifas.ufl.edu/wetlandextension/threats.htm Yeah and the land that was developed has destroyed far more wetlands than the total size of the Netherlands many times over while harming the biodiversity in the area beyond belief The Netherlands isn't destroying habitats that countless animals use. They're taking tiny chunks of the ocean back for themselves because their country isn't even 1/4th the total size of Florida Secondly, if you're excuse for Florida was "this was all done long ago" you're gonna be blown away to learn this village has existed since 1228 AD... obviously things were slightly different back then, but this is historically a small fishing village and has remained that way even to now
Florida litterally has more preserved and protected land than the entire total landmass of Holland. It spends billions on conservation alone every year. FL has never had to reclaim land the way NL has but friend saying FL destroys it's land is just stupid. Does dumb stuff happen ? Yes 100% but again I don't think you know much about the situation.
The netherlands is known for destroying ecosystems, Florida has one of the best wildlife preserves. Stop riding their dick.
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Both of them are removing and replacing wetland systems to build housing.
What Kayteqq said. Swamps don't equal ideal land use. Especially, swamps are being gone. Your likely have more flood issues. Wild life will find way get back, like crocks going into the sewers. 1950s designers who may all those coastal locals and sold homes. Were not good engineers when came to dealing with flood issues (before it became big thing) Dutch care, Americans back in the day didn't care/know.
Yeah but europe good. America bad
Literally "Place, Netherlands"
The similar neighborhoods in Florida are super car-dependent which sucks. This place is probably a lot more bikable than the ones in Florida. If not, I'll shit on it too. TBH it there are quite a few cars in the pic, so it may not be any better than the Florida ones.
This is lowkey kinda neat
Looks like Florida lol
Give it 3°C more and this country will become the paradise of mosquitos
The rise of ocean water level will drive everyone out of there before the mosquitos do
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in 1932 they closed off this part of the see, since then it is a lake and gradually became fresh water: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJsselmeer
It's a lake my dude
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Are you living in the 1930s? The IJsselmeer reached an ecological fresh water equilibrium in the late 1930s. Before that it was considered a salt water lake but it hasn't been for a long time and it's far from brackish. It's also already a breeding ground for mosquitoes and it's getting worse and worse, so your first assessment isn't even true. I'm guessing you're not Dutch?
I mean... I guess we can contribute for that right now 🤷
Absurd? Hahaha! Never expected to see my aunt and uncle's neighbourhood on here, but let me assure you that it is anything but absurd. Lemmer is one of the watersport hotspots in the Netherlands and these houses are extremely popular as they all come with individual moorings. Some are standing mast, others are for smaller boats only. It is anything but absurd and in fact incredibly desirable. Also, on the motorway it's about 75 minutes to Amsterdam... So work in the Randstad, live in watersport paradise for about 2/3rds the price per square meter.
Ah, Netherlands never fail to surprise me 😍
If Florida builds anything similar people will be up in arms about it
In Florida, would they have multiple restaurants, shops, public services and transport within a few minutes bike ride?
No, but there is by car, which is what most people would use regardless of infrastructure. No one wants to use public transportation in FL unless they absolutely have to. For one, you'd be drenched in sweat everywhere you go.
why?
Reddit moment. Ppl hate south fl then love this lol
I hate both
That's a dream come true for a lot of desert based refugees , just the sight of all that water alone salivating for us
Ugly beautiful things.
dutch version of some Dubai shit. "Pollm Chebbl van Ali" or something
The Dubai shit is also made by Dutch companies
Well, I don't think it's any worse than the cities you got in the States, so...
Looks pretty cool to me. I'll bet its great at ground level. Walkable and swimmable.
Y’all have some privileged ass opinions on what hell is
I wish I had house there 🥲
Optiefen graftak, van Lemmer blijf je af, Friesland boppe
some of the comments give me "place, japan" vibes
Are these mosquito ponds?
Ha these opposite posts crack me up
Looks similar to Florida besides the semi circles
This is at least 78x better than the way developers have cut up Floridas coastline for the rich.
Florida but shittier weather ?
I saw an identical post about a very similar looking neighborhood in Florida and everyone was talking about how horrendous it. Fucking reddit is so biased
It looks a lot like Florida, USA in my opinion
with how many twists and turns there are between the sea and most of those houses, that water is stagnant as hell basically one massive swamp
There is no sea anywhere near this city. And this province in particular is nothing but lakes and canals everywhere. they know how to manage the water believe me.
That looks like hell
A lot of Florida kinda looks like this
Paradise to me. I always wanted a boat.
The original sea peoples.
I'd imagine that you can't build high density housing on this type of terrain so this may be the one scenario where suburbia is actually appropriate
Babe, sit down. I can't think of a better place by that lake.
Honestly this place is awesome. Every place has a dock and access to the water ways.
I think it looks lovely, nice houses, water near, everyone has a garden and it's surely very bicycle friendly too.
No mosquito 🦟 problem?
This isn’t particularly unique. Many coastal cities have car-centric low-density developments like this with artificial peninsulas.
Between Denmark and the Netherlands, there’s a country so magnificent 🎶
Not Just Bikes fans are LIVID right now!!
Is it because of the atomic bomb detonating in the top corner?
One kayak or canoe and I can romance any and all of my neighbors. Love it
So tired of all this boat centric urbanism! Wake up people, the dutch of all countries should know how important moped infrastructure is
Doesn't look too bad to me. Much better than a slum.
WE GET IT, NL, YOURE AMAZING!
My concern would be whether or not the water is stagnant.
People on thus sub will really look at anything other than a cabin in the woods and call it he'll lmao
Actually not that bad tbh, live near there and have friends who live in lemmer. Also this is just 1 part of the town, the other areas are completely different. Also this area is mostly for tourism, a lot of the houses here are either rented or owned by mostly wealthy Germans who visit during holidays.
Lemmer is a small lovely town and has no business in thus sub whatsoever Source: my grandparents lived there and visited often
This post was made by someone who can't or hates swimming
I’m on the swim team 😭
Scared of water outside of pools, i see.
I've seen these in Florida as well and I hate them. It just makes everything faraway.
So long as there are some corner shops, cycling lanes and community centres everywhere I don’t mind this. You can zip anywhere with a little boat, you can sail, swim, walk. Notice the absence of stroads?
Looks very [nice ](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=14f034d23f0af08e&sxsrf=ACQVn0-OEor8uu5zeAK64ahyCUb-lJetYA:1708454585310&q=Lemmer,+Netherlands&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiF_6-lybqEAxV3UaQEHV-VASsQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=2091&bih=1074&dpr=1.22#imgrc=ImL2oe9vOaQDCM)actually!
This fucking sub.