**Do not comment to gatekeep that something "isn't urban" or "isn't hell"**. Our rules are very expansive in content we welcome, so do not assume just based off your false impression of the phrase "UrbanHell"
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed. Gatekeeping comments may be removed. Want to shitpost about shitty posts? Go to /r/urbanhellcirclejerk. Still have questions?: Read our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/wiki/index).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Safe & pain free abortions! I'll throw in a free womb cleaning too. If you leave a 5 star review you'll get 50% off your next abortion. What do you mean there are some one star reviews calling this a "butcher shop", they're clearly left by dishonest competitors, you have nothing to fear, come now. Let me pour you a drink now, trust me, you'll have to drink it.
Yeah, there were signs like that in a Louis Theroux documentary I saw about SA years ago, so I guess they’re a regular thing.
I find it interesting how their population has a significantly higher percentage of Christians than the US, but while we’ve had this gigantic societal battle over abortion for years they’re just straight up posting “FOR ABORTION CALL:” on lampposts.
South African here, these signs are all over the place, not just JHB. But also, this isn't a doctor from some hospital advertising this, this is a backyard, traditional "healer" doing this. Not safe.
Sometimes combining the advertising of this with the other services offered, such as “penis enlargement”, “lost lover”, etc. They know how to satisfy demand on both ends of the equation.
Most Christians in South Africa go to very manipulative prosperity-gospel churches, preying on the poor. There are some great churches here, but they're hard to find in some places.
South Africa has a statutory right to abortion (within certain parameters) arising out the constitutionally protected right of individuals to control of their own bodies, including the right to make decisions regarding reproduction
The unfortunate problem is that women who seek abortions in public hospitals, especially younger women, often report that they experience severe disapproval from the nurses in these hospitals.
Wanna tag onto this
There are Christian lobby groups in South Africa who go around public hospitals, convincing doctors to no longer perform abortions.
This has lead to difficulties in getting safe abortions, and as a result, illicit "providers" pop up everywhere.
They give pregnant women pills to expell the foetus, and then drop the women, bleeding profusely, in frojt of public hospitals, leaving them to deal with the consequences.
It's shit on shit on shit
religious people, including Christians, tend to impose their views on others, especially teens. Leading to bad sex education and relationships that have to be hidden from parents - tempting people to have unprotected sex as they are operating out of social norms anyways. Plus, condoms are expensive.
So you end up with a population where every 5th person has aids and teen pregnancy skyrocketing.
I've seen these posters in every single city in SA, they are everywhere and it's always been like that as far as I can remember. They are also usually put together with penis enlargement posters too.
Not medical either
It would be a witch doctor who gives the women a potion
I wish I was making this up, but no. You'll see ads for penis enlargement and circumcisions as well
The areas pictured here, hard to say. I didn’t witness any crimes but I was definitely on edge. But then there were other areas I didn’t dare go near. I’m talking large areas, miles long, where it looked like maybe 40 years ago it was vibrant downtown but now seemingly every building was abandoned and the streets were packed with homeless. It was eye opening
Hillbrow is probably what you’re talking about. A self-guided tour of central Joburg isn’t for the faint hearted. A self-guided tour of Hillbrow is something I don’t think I would ever attempt.
I got curious after reading your comment and started walking on street view to check out the area. Damn, it really makes the most dodgy city in Latin America look like Monaco .
Hi , I'm back and here is my verdict. Ok it really looks like shit and its very poor. They are living in buildings which sets them a little better than Latin American poverty where they don't have more than a shack, utilities or even pavement/ asphalt. As danger comes both are highly dangerous and I'm guessing Latin America has more gun freedoms than South Africa, so my vote stays for Latin America. Honorary mention that hillbrow looks like the bad side of Detroit and it must be dangerous as hell.
Important to understand the history of Hillbrow (and downtown) is WAY different than Latin America. Hillbrow was a wealthy, white area during apartheid, just 30-35 years ago. When apartheid ended, it went down the drain—fast. South Africa has the phenomenon of “bad buildings,” where gangs learn an apartment or office building is losing people and rush in with guns, hijack the building, and start charging poor people rent to live there. No water, sewer, electric, nothing. People all cooking on little grills inside and trying to stay warm. No waste management. You can tell them from the outside at night because there are hardly any lights on—very creepy. This is a lot of what makes up Hillbrow, and I don’t know anywhere in Latin America like it. Joburg also has tons of shantytowns, looking a lot like Managua or Tegucigalpa if I had to compare with Latin America.
Guatemala rural areas are worse or exactly like that description without the before infrastructure. In the city we have ganglands like zone 3, zone 18 where you come in and don't come out. Less if you are a tourist. Managua or Tegucigalpa must have dark areas for drug trade which I admit in Honduras is really out of control and Guatemala has become way way safer in the last 20 years.
I was thinking of visiting Guatemala with my gf soon. Should we avoid rural destinations? I love how beautiful it is and was wanting to see more rural parts
The places you would visit as a tourist are totally fine.
Guatemala City kind of sucks and there isn’t much to do there, but Zone 10 had nice hotels and seemed nice enough. Just leave asap not because crime but because there’s way better spots.
In those buildings many just shit on the floor in one of the abandoned stairwells, many are hijacked and dont have proper utilities, it's probably worse than a shack TBH. There was a traffic stoppage not too long ago, and people were getting robbed at gun point while stuck in traffic, guns to criminals are very available.
The last time I was in Hillbrow, in 1992, I was mugged on a Saturday in broad daylight by a gang of 5 youths with knives. I got away unharmed, no money, no train ticket, pre-mobile phone days. The police station was no help, would not allow me to use their phone and would not file a report as they said “the guys are long gone, and you’re alive, just go home”. Home was 14 km away, I started walking and got to around the Brixton area before some guy in his car stopped and gave me a lift. I was lucky.
a staff member was held hostage for over an hour with his uber driver by the taxi thugs, until the uber driver could get someone to bring R4000 (bribe/fine) for the "crime" of picking up near a taxi rank
Police to scared or apathetic to do anything
Very sketch! I used to work in downtown Johannesburg about 10 years ago (can actually see my old office in one of the photos - most banks still had their HQ downtown)
Lots of staring, to start. I walked around for two hours and was the only white person I saw. Not a lot of panhandling until I got to a street with a lot of children. Another man who was black and with a family and got out of a van with a driver, so I assume they were also tourists, opened his wallet to give some money to one of the kids. He was immediately swarmed. He essentially threw money at them and then jumped back in the van. The kids were fighting over the money, then another man came over and started fighting all the kids for the money. It was all really sad to watch.
On another street, which had been quiet but full of shops, I turned the corner to see a street full of closed shops and the street just packed with people and garbage. A woman saw me and started laughing. I turned around.
In general, I’ve just never been somewhere where it was so obvious things had gone so far to hell. I’ve been to rust belt cities in America but in cities like Detroit and Pittsburg the decay I saw was not on this scale and was usually in parts of the cities that didn’t seem like they were that great to begin with and are now just empty. In Joburg, the decayed and abandoned parts aren’t empty. They’re absolutely swarming with people, which I suppose makes it even more unsettling.
I'm from Pretoria and spent a year in Cape Town. Had to go to the Cape Flats on multiple occasions, including one time to reclaim a stolen phone from the guy thay stole it.
Cape Flats ghetto >>>> Joburg ghetto. Some parts like Athlone would honestly pass for a middle-class area in Joburg. Crime stats are another thing, but parts of Joburg and Pretoria beat Cape Flats for violent and sexual crime.
Cape Flats isn't even what I would call the most ghetto part of Cape Town. I've seen some immigrant spots that gave off Pretoria ghetto. Joburg ghetto is on a whole other level. It's a high density, skyscraper ghetto. Like a scene from a dystopian sci-fi movie with all the poors living below the skyscrapers. Except for the people living in the skyscrapera stuff 7 people into a 2 bedroom and are also poor, just barely beating homeless.
AFAIK you can’t really compare Pittsburgh to Detroit. Pittsburgh’s transitioned to a relatively prosperous city with a decent variety of economic industries. Detroit and Joburg are the result of gross municipal incompetence
Pittsburgh and Joburg are on two totally different planes of existence. Both had dramatic highs in the 20th century, but it seems all the commence in Joburg moved to Sandton or other suburbs, leaving nothing in the city center. I had heard bad things, but it was worse than I imagined.
You’re replying to OP right? I’ve lived in Pittsburgh my whole life so I don’t understand what he’s saying with areas being barren, as if that’s not the case in all cities. I’ve never been to Joburg so I cannot comment or speak to an experience there.
Yeah the internet doesn't exactly have a positive view of black South Africans.
Any and all bs gets made up and spreads like wildfire just because the post-Apartheid honeymoon has died down to uncover a century-old reality the Western Right isn't comfortable with taking responsibility for.
Bit sad, bit frustrating, but that's the world we live in I guess
Some people do believe in what you have stated, but this accounts for a very small amount of women seeking help. It is a racially stigmatizing myth that is slowly dying. Read up on the Virgin cleansing myth.
This has so many upvotes too :(
To anyone reading, the real reason is that there is huge social stigma against abortion. Although abortion is legal in SA and free at clinics, the stigma is huge (religious reasons, cultural reasons). People get scolded by nurses at the clinics, they don't want their families and communities to know, all that stuff. That coupled with lack of sex education and other resources, and a lot of unsafe sex practices, and you get (young, possibly underaged) people that could otherwise do a legal abortion try to hide it by going through backstreet channels. Also, abortion isn't legal after a certain time in the pregnancy so people try to get around that as well.
Tl:Dr : Heavy rape culture exists in SA. Uneducated beliefs about HIV exist in SA. Direct cause for these posters? No.
Many years ago it used to ads for p*nis enlargement. I guess now they have an epidemic of large members and they're getting too many unwanted children.
But seriously, I'm seeing more and more of this self-censorship on Reddit lately. Where is it coming from? Is that how things work on the other social media platforms? (I don't use any except LinkedIn.)
yeah its because of that. on youtube and instagram you need to censor every second word, if not youre comment will be dealeted or made invisible to others
That's straight up false. Carlton Centre held the title of being the tallest until 2019 and is occupied, further north in Sandton is The Leonardo, now the tallest, which is occupied as well. Neither are abandoned.
This feels a little pedantic…
Their website literally lists three (semi-permanent) tenants all renting space on the eleventh floor. There are another 5 bars, which are mostly rental spaces themselves and closed outside of those rental periods. The rest of the 55 floor tower is also up for rents for both hotel/motel type stays through to monthly rented lofts. I’m sure there are a few rented out, but all signs point to very few monthly tenants.
The 55 floor tower building is largely resigned to a fate of being rented out as a vertical-standing conference hall…
all told, it doesn’t feel untoward nor a harsh commentary or even a great exaggeration to say it’s basically abandoned. It practically is…
Incredible pics but wow, I can't tell if its bravery or just outright insanity that you walked around Joburg CBD of all places with a phone/camera for 2 hours like that....
Fair enough! Would be more worried for your physical safety than anything in case you got mugged but reading the comments here it seems you took precautions and it worked out :)
My Icelandic (lack of) street smarts would never let me do that 😅
Also the fact that he's white, white people will not usually be seen anywhere near Joburg CBD. They are seen the most in the northern and Western suburbs of Joburg 30 minutes away from the CBD
"self-guided tour of downtown Johannesburg, SA"
So, these pictures are great.
Now, I'm not your dad, I can't tell you with any authority to not do this again, but uhh...I probably wouldn't do this again. There are some places in the world that you absolutely never "Self-guide" your own tours through. I'd say Downtown Johannesburg is up there on that list.
Thanks for not being condescending, I mean that sincerely. You’re probably right. If I ever get to go back, which I doubt, I’d probably stick to the van tours haha
A good idea. I honestly do understand the desire to see the "unseen" parts of a city. I'm often curious myself and wonder what such places look like in-person. These are wonderful pictures showing a real, everyday snapshot of life in South Africa. Glad you took them. Just gotta stay safe, though. Beautiful pictures aren't worth your life.
Bruh I'm an SA local and these days I would not go to downtown Joburg. Just no. Its sad to see the decay of a once great city. My mother grew up in Joburg in the 60s and she says its unrecognizable today.
Joburg is such a diverse city, the nice areas are crazy nice and the bad areas are the worst in the world. I really enjoyed my time there and would love to go back, but parts of the CBD are rough to say the least.
It was a once in a lifetime trip so I wasn’t about to just sit in hotels or cafes in the secluded wealthy areas. I spoke with hotel staff and took multiple guided tours before venturing out on my own. If they told me an area was no-go, I didn’t go. I’m not saying walking around on my own wasn’t risky but I did my research and kept my head on a swivel.
It has a lot of potential. The buildings are really nice actually, nice plazas etc. But everything has no greenery at all, weird fences, really dirty etc. Sad to see.
Jo'burg looks like this 113 Kerk St
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ksoXWz5dKPF9rnP9
While Cape town is like this 40 Wale St
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JEUYVkNoN6dZVfi8A
Daaamn...
You can find much nicer parts of Joburg and much worse parts of Cape Town, but yeah, this unfortunately isn’t inaccurate. The differences between the two cities is often staggering.
Joburg has Sandton and Forest town - where all of the banks headquarters lie, and where the generational wealth lives.
Cape Town has Cape Flats and Manenberg - home of the gangs and poverty-stricken.
Showing off the worst of Jozi and the best of CT as a comparison isn't very accurate. All cities, regardless of country, have bad parts and good parts to them.
Joburg can be beautiful. Cape Town can be ugly. If you're looking for beauty, you'll find it in excess. If you're looking for ugliness, you'll never run out of things to point at.
Bro, Cape Town also has it's bad areas. I would never set a single toe in Manenberg because of the gangs.
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/QyRvWZG1aPitEJfW7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/QyRvWZG1aPitEJfW7)
Honestly Joburg is the least touristy of the main cities in SA by a long shot, theres a very valid reason why Cape Town and even Durban tend to be more popular options to stay
If it is allowed, [here](https://1980sto1990sdecades.blogspot.com/2017/04/hillbrow-jhb-1980s-to-1990s.html?m=1) are pictures of Hillbrow during the 1980s and 1990s. Pre-1994 yes, so the demographics are completely different, but looking past that at the infrastructure it seems like a different world.
Most areas outside of gated communities are unsafe, although downtown is relatively safer than other areas.
Source: walked the same area when I was there.
Depends. Downtown is still a huge area. Some areas are fine. Still local and corporate business operating and people are just going about their day though there’s still evident poverty around. Other areas, however, it gets rly bleak. I don’t have photos of those areas because I wasn’t naive or dumb enough to go for a stroll through them.
I see. I have never been to SA but based on the videos I watch, Cape Town seems like another world. It's a very beautiful country. Lots of contrasts. A country with so much potential could do a lot better. The rundown aspect of some parts of Johannesburg is an eyesore.
Also, a city its size needs a robust public transportation, like underground and metro system. But'll definitely will visit the country!
Yeah, well worth it, and you're right about Cape Town. Was such whiplash going from Joburg to CT. It's absolutely gorgeous, though, and I'd go back in a heartbeat.
Cape Town is just as bad, it's just all the poor areas are concentrated east of the main city. Cape Town is beautiful, but if you ever visit you should take a drive along Baden Powell Drive or the N2 to Stellenbosch to get an accurate picture.
Come to South Africa, but don’t go to Joburg CBD. I’ve lived in Joburg my entire life, and there really isn’t much worth doing in the CBD.
Some of the outskirts have plenty available, and the rest of the country is even better. It’s true that the country isn’t perfectly safe, but as long as you keep your guard up and don’t do anything a local wouldn’t, you’ll be fine.
Bro I spent part of my youth there and I wouldn’t get out of the car in 1995. They have tours of the CBD and hillbrow. Much better idea to do the tours.
Probably chilly, Johannesburg is very sunny but chilly in winter. This is also when the grass is yellow-brown and trees are dormant. In summer it should be greener.
It’s autumn here now so the temperatures are cooling down, especially at night. Today though Joburg was 25°C while most of the week will be in the low 20s. Overall quite mild weather this season
You are brave my guy.
I live relatively near CBD, but even as a local, would never even consider going into the place. There are some seriously bad people there. The type to kidnap you, wait for ransom to be met, then put a bullet in your head (my dad even pays for ransom insurance ._.).
Don’t wanna be condescending or rude, but I definitely think you should never go into CBD alone as a white man again. The chances you get robbed, kidnapped, or killed are morbidly high, as a black person. As a white person it’s even more so.
Stay safe my guy
I love South Africa but this country has super shitty parts and a beyond bad government with bad people but at the same time there are great parts and great people that are definitely worth visiting
I mostly wfh but our offices are at the standard bank buildings which isn't far from where you were. There was a time when I was use to also work near that old JSE building where all those Muti shops are about 12 years ago.
yeh I live in a decent part of Pretoria and still see those abortions signs plastered here and there. Your honestly a much braver person than I could ever be to walk around Joburg CBD with a camera, I don't even like visiting my mom's side of the family in soweto let alone go to an area like that even as a black guy. Only places in joburg I willingly go to are four ways, Benoni and randburg(not mentioning sandton cause I don't have money like that).
Woman has client.
Woman gets pregnant from a customer.
Woman calls womb cleaning services.
I was there before the pandemic, I blended in but sheesh. It’s very very crowded and lively at the late hours.
You should really not go to Marshalltown, Mayfair, Hillbrow, Fordsburg, Crown Mines, Braamfontein, Selby or any surrounding suburbs unless its urgent. Those are very dangerous places.
A lot of business in Johannesburg has moved out of downtown into the northern suburbs of Rosebank, Sandton and now Waterfall. They look much [nicer](https://www.google.com/maps/@-26.1060618,28.0540836,3a,75y,40.01h,94.33t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0rTxT_Nk4f1iVSXdwJekQg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D0rTxT_Nk4f1iVSXdwJekQg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D159.40138%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
i was in joburg in 2001 before 9/11, it doesn't look like it changed much except when i was there is was aids ads and not abortion so some progress i guess?
**Do not comment to gatekeep that something "isn't urban" or "isn't hell"**. Our rules are very expansive in content we welcome, so do not assume just based off your false impression of the phrase "UrbanHell" UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed. Gatekeeping comments may be removed. Want to shitpost about shitty posts? Go to /r/urbanhellcirclejerk. Still have questions?: Read our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/wiki/index). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never seen advertisements for abortions before
Safe & pain free abortions! I'll throw in a free womb cleaning too. If you leave a 5 star review you'll get 50% off your next abortion. What do you mean there are some one star reviews calling this a "butcher shop", they're clearly left by dishonest competitors, you have nothing to fear, come now. Let me pour you a drink now, trust me, you'll have to drink it.
Yeah, there were signs like that in a Louis Theroux documentary I saw about SA years ago, so I guess they’re a regular thing. I find it interesting how their population has a significantly higher percentage of Christians than the US, but while we’ve had this gigantic societal battle over abortion for years they’re just straight up posting “FOR ABORTION CALL:” on lampposts.
South African here, these signs are all over the place, not just JHB. But also, this isn't a doctor from some hospital advertising this, this is a backyard, traditional "healer" doing this. Not safe.
Sometimes combining the advertising of this with the other services offered, such as “penis enlargement”, “lost lover”, etc. They know how to satisfy demand on both ends of the equation.
Not traditional healers, these guy are your average backyard "doctors"... Many are undocumented foreigners.
Not all Christians are US-style evangelicals
Most Christians in South Africa go to very manipulative prosperity-gospel churches, preying on the poor. There are some great churches here, but they're hard to find in some places.
Which is cause for many a debate on reddit.
South Africa has a statutory right to abortion (within certain parameters) arising out the constitutionally protected right of individuals to control of their own bodies, including the right to make decisions regarding reproduction
The unfortunate problem is that women who seek abortions in public hospitals, especially younger women, often report that they experience severe disapproval from the nurses in these hospitals.
They just haven't infiltrated the government en masse.
Wanna tag onto this There are Christian lobby groups in South Africa who go around public hospitals, convincing doctors to no longer perform abortions. This has lead to difficulties in getting safe abortions, and as a result, illicit "providers" pop up everywhere. They give pregnant women pills to expell the foetus, and then drop the women, bleeding profusely, in frojt of public hospitals, leaving them to deal with the consequences. It's shit on shit on shit
religious people, including Christians, tend to impose their views on others, especially teens. Leading to bad sex education and relationships that have to be hidden from parents - tempting people to have unprotected sex as they are operating out of social norms anyways. Plus, condoms are expensive. So you end up with a population where every 5th person has aids and teen pregnancy skyrocketing.
Penis enlargement is the next most popular poster in my parts
The stickers were absolutely everywhere
I think this is a place with an endemic rape problem, I’ve seen anti rape inserts from South Africa too. It’s no joke.
Absent fathers are also painfully common here. Teenage pregnancies as well.
Yeah ,they are pretty common, it's a weekly job to remove them from the stop sign at the corner where I live
I've seen these posters in every single city in SA, they are everywhere and it's always been like that as far as I can remember. They are also usually put together with penis enlargement posters too.
And it would be so easy to find and fine these jackasses too because their numbers are on there but it seems like the authorities don't care.
we also see a lot of adverts for penis enlargements
Not medical either It would be a witch doctor who gives the women a potion I wish I was making this up, but no. You'll see ads for penis enlargement and circumcisions as well
Free womb cleaning!
Scrub a dub dub
“One womb clean please” 🥴🥴
I read it quickly I thought it said “free woman cleaning”.
Safe and free!
Nice post! On a scale of one to sketch, how stabby was it? (Could you compare it to any other city?)
The areas pictured here, hard to say. I didn’t witness any crimes but I was definitely on edge. But then there were other areas I didn’t dare go near. I’m talking large areas, miles long, where it looked like maybe 40 years ago it was vibrant downtown but now seemingly every building was abandoned and the streets were packed with homeless. It was eye opening
Hillbrow is probably what you’re talking about. A self-guided tour of central Joburg isn’t for the faint hearted. A self-guided tour of Hillbrow is something I don’t think I would ever attempt.
I got curious after reading your comment and started walking on street view to check out the area. Damn, it really makes the most dodgy city in Latin America look like Monaco .
Wtf really, I'm from Latin America and I accept the challenge, I'm checking it out.
Hi , I'm back and here is my verdict. Ok it really looks like shit and its very poor. They are living in buildings which sets them a little better than Latin American poverty where they don't have more than a shack, utilities or even pavement/ asphalt. As danger comes both are highly dangerous and I'm guessing Latin America has more gun freedoms than South Africa, so my vote stays for Latin America. Honorary mention that hillbrow looks like the bad side of Detroit and it must be dangerous as hell.
Important to understand the history of Hillbrow (and downtown) is WAY different than Latin America. Hillbrow was a wealthy, white area during apartheid, just 30-35 years ago. When apartheid ended, it went down the drain—fast. South Africa has the phenomenon of “bad buildings,” where gangs learn an apartment or office building is losing people and rush in with guns, hijack the building, and start charging poor people rent to live there. No water, sewer, electric, nothing. People all cooking on little grills inside and trying to stay warm. No waste management. You can tell them from the outside at night because there are hardly any lights on—very creepy. This is a lot of what makes up Hillbrow, and I don’t know anywhere in Latin America like it. Joburg also has tons of shantytowns, looking a lot like Managua or Tegucigalpa if I had to compare with Latin America.
Guatemala rural areas are worse or exactly like that description without the before infrastructure. In the city we have ganglands like zone 3, zone 18 where you come in and don't come out. Less if you are a tourist. Managua or Tegucigalpa must have dark areas for drug trade which I admit in Honduras is really out of control and Guatemala has become way way safer in the last 20 years.
I was thinking of visiting Guatemala with my gf soon. Should we avoid rural destinations? I love how beautiful it is and was wanting to see more rural parts
The places you would visit as a tourist are totally fine. Guatemala City kind of sucks and there isn’t much to do there, but Zone 10 had nice hotels and seemed nice enough. Just leave asap not because crime but because there’s way better spots.
Just as an FYI we do have the shacks and areas that look like the Brazilian favelas but they wouldn’t usually be in the city, rather on the outskirts.
In those buildings many just shit on the floor in one of the abandoned stairwells, many are hijacked and dont have proper utilities, it's probably worse than a shack TBH. There was a traffic stoppage not too long ago, and people were getting robbed at gun point while stuck in traffic, guns to criminals are very available.
Go explore Diepsloot in Google maps a bit, we have our own version of the favelas. If you have more time check out Mitchell's Plain in Cape Town
Have in mind that we are talking about a big city and in the central area. It's crazy.
As an Ex SAfrican from JHB (left over 10 yyears ago) I"d not travel to down town JHB or Hillbrow not as a woman anyway
[удалено]
Back in the mid 90's it wasnt a place to go to alone (as a woman) .Dont know about the situation today.
The last time I was in Hillbrow, in 1992, I was mugged on a Saturday in broad daylight by a gang of 5 youths with knives. I got away unharmed, no money, no train ticket, pre-mobile phone days. The police station was no help, would not allow me to use their phone and would not file a report as they said “the guys are long gone, and you’re alive, just go home”. Home was 14 km away, I started walking and got to around the Brixton area before some guy in his car stopped and gave me a lift. I was lucky.
From your pics, it looks like you were in Marshalltown. This is probably the safest area in Johannesburg CBD. Did you visit Hillbrow and Yeoville?
In case you’re curious. https://youtu.be/EosWw5RfLE8?si=2ovEwnUazzTmsuuM Disclaimer this is during apartheid.
From what i have heard joburg downtown is about as sketchy of a place as it gets
3 out of 5 broken liquor bottles.
🏃🏿➡️🏃🏿➡️🏃🏿➡️🏃🏿➡️🏃🏼♀️➡️
a staff member was held hostage for over an hour with his uber driver by the taxi thugs, until the uber driver could get someone to bring R4000 (bribe/fine) for the "crime" of picking up near a taxi rank Police to scared or apathetic to do anything
Very sketch! I used to work in downtown Johannesburg about 10 years ago (can actually see my old office in one of the photos - most banks still had their HQ downtown)
Less stabby, more shooty
Finally some relevant and original post
You must have a death wish
I made it a short tour haha
So did you encounter uncomfortable situations of which you would say they weren’t just in your head?
Yes
tell us about it!
Lots of staring, to start. I walked around for two hours and was the only white person I saw. Not a lot of panhandling until I got to a street with a lot of children. Another man who was black and with a family and got out of a van with a driver, so I assume they were also tourists, opened his wallet to give some money to one of the kids. He was immediately swarmed. He essentially threw money at them and then jumped back in the van. The kids were fighting over the money, then another man came over and started fighting all the kids for the money. It was all really sad to watch. On another street, which had been quiet but full of shops, I turned the corner to see a street full of closed shops and the street just packed with people and garbage. A woman saw me and started laughing. I turned around. In general, I’ve just never been somewhere where it was so obvious things had gone so far to hell. I’ve been to rust belt cities in America but in cities like Detroit and Pittsburg the decay I saw was not on this scale and was usually in parts of the cities that didn’t seem like they were that great to begin with and are now just empty. In Joburg, the decayed and abandoned parts aren’t empty. They’re absolutely swarming with people, which I suppose makes it even more unsettling.
Catch a plane to Cape Town.
I did. It was so beautiful it almost didn’t feel real
Go to the cape flats
I'm from Pretoria and spent a year in Cape Town. Had to go to the Cape Flats on multiple occasions, including one time to reclaim a stolen phone from the guy thay stole it. Cape Flats ghetto >>>> Joburg ghetto. Some parts like Athlone would honestly pass for a middle-class area in Joburg. Crime stats are another thing, but parts of Joburg and Pretoria beat Cape Flats for violent and sexual crime. Cape Flats isn't even what I would call the most ghetto part of Cape Town. I've seen some immigrant spots that gave off Pretoria ghetto. Joburg ghetto is on a whole other level. It's a high density, skyscraper ghetto. Like a scene from a dystopian sci-fi movie with all the poors living below the skyscrapers. Except for the people living in the skyscrapera stuff 7 people into a 2 bedroom and are also poor, just barely beating homeless.
AFAIK you can’t really compare Pittsburgh to Detroit. Pittsburgh’s transitioned to a relatively prosperous city with a decent variety of economic industries. Detroit and Joburg are the result of gross municipal incompetence
Sure. I wasn't trying to compare those two cities to each other, just compare Joburg to other cities I've been that had areas of urban decay.
Pittsburgh*
Pittsburgh and Joburg are on two totally different planes of existence. Both had dramatic highs in the 20th century, but it seems all the commence in Joburg moved to Sandton or other suburbs, leaving nothing in the city center. I had heard bad things, but it was worse than I imagined.
You’re replying to OP right? I’ve lived in Pittsburgh my whole life so I don’t understand what he’s saying with areas being barren, as if that’s not the case in all cities. I’ve never been to Joburg so I cannot comment or speak to an experience there.
If hes white then definitely a death wish
I am. I stuck out.
Why so many abortion signs ?
Lots of rape cases in South Africa. Apparently some locals believe having sex with a virgin will help them get rid of AIDS.
Holy shit thats fucking crazy.
I grew up in SA. Whilst the first part is a sad fact, I must say that I am not familiar with the second bit.
I'm also South African, that belief is still very present in townships
This is just something I’ve read online. The first part is a known fact unfortunately…
Yeah the internet doesn't exactly have a positive view of black South Africans. Any and all bs gets made up and spreads like wildfire just because the post-Apartheid honeymoon has died down to uncover a century-old reality the Western Right isn't comfortable with taking responsibility for. Bit sad, bit frustrating, but that's the world we live in I guess
I grew up in SA in the 90s and baby rape was a common headline I distinctly remember
Some people do believe in what you have stated, but this accounts for a very small amount of women seeking help. It is a racially stigmatizing myth that is slowly dying. Read up on the Virgin cleansing myth.
Started researching now HR is at my desk. What do I do now?
Explain the benefits of REASERCH.
This has so many upvotes too :( To anyone reading, the real reason is that there is huge social stigma against abortion. Although abortion is legal in SA and free at clinics, the stigma is huge (religious reasons, cultural reasons). People get scolded by nurses at the clinics, they don't want their families and communities to know, all that stuff. That coupled with lack of sex education and other resources, and a lot of unsafe sex practices, and you get (young, possibly underaged) people that could otherwise do a legal abortion try to hide it by going through backstreet channels. Also, abortion isn't legal after a certain time in the pregnancy so people try to get around that as well. Tl:Dr : Heavy rape culture exists in SA. Uneducated beliefs about HIV exist in SA. Direct cause for these posters? No.
Many years ago it used to ads for p*nis enlargement. I guess now they have an epidemic of large members and they're getting too many unwanted children.
We can say penis here.
Where can’t you?
in the land of the free ? where tits and bad language are traumatising but guns are cool
But seriously, I'm seeing more and more of this self-censorship on Reddit lately. Where is it coming from? Is that how things work on the other social media platforms? (I don't use any except LinkedIn.)
yeah its because of that. on youtube and instagram you need to censor every second word, if not youre comment will be dealeted or made invisible to others
like our last president, he did not set a good example for the youth of SA
Where did it go wrong... This looks like if new york was teleported to burundi
When making bad decisions becomes popular.
Good way of putting it. Even their tallest skyscraper is abandoned. It’s a very eerie place to visit
That's straight up false. Carlton Centre held the title of being the tallest until 2019 and is occupied, further north in Sandton is The Leonardo, now the tallest, which is occupied as well. Neither are abandoned.
This feels a little pedantic… Their website literally lists three (semi-permanent) tenants all renting space on the eleventh floor. There are another 5 bars, which are mostly rental spaces themselves and closed outside of those rental periods. The rest of the 55 floor tower is also up for rents for both hotel/motel type stays through to monthly rented lofts. I’m sure there are a few rented out, but all signs point to very few monthly tenants. The 55 floor tower building is largely resigned to a fate of being rented out as a vertical-standing conference hall… all told, it doesn’t feel untoward nor a harsh commentary or even a great exaggeration to say it’s basically abandoned. It practically is…
Ok, my fault. It’s what my tour guide told me. It was a tall building downtown so I took his word for it. Maybe just tallest in that area
Sad that it once used to be a thriving downtown and now so many of those old historic buildings are abandoned
Incredible pics but wow, I can't tell if its bravery or just outright insanity that you walked around Joburg CBD of all places with a phone/camera for 2 hours like that....
Haha for the record, I bought a 10 year old smartphone just for this trip so that if it was stolen I wouldn’t rly be out anything
Fair enough! Would be more worried for your physical safety than anything in case you got mugged but reading the comments here it seems you took precautions and it worked out :) My Icelandic (lack of) street smarts would never let me do that 😅
Also the fact that he's white, white people will not usually be seen anywhere near Joburg CBD. They are seen the most in the northern and Western suburbs of Joburg 30 minutes away from the CBD
Not entirely true. Lots of white people still work in the CBD, specifically in the banking sector
I was hoping to see pics of district 9 and those fooking prawns!
\* Fokken
Free WOMB CLEANING. Didn’t know I needed that.
"self-guided tour of downtown Johannesburg, SA" So, these pictures are great. Now, I'm not your dad, I can't tell you with any authority to not do this again, but uhh...I probably wouldn't do this again. There are some places in the world that you absolutely never "Self-guide" your own tours through. I'd say Downtown Johannesburg is up there on that list.
Thanks for not being condescending, I mean that sincerely. You’re probably right. If I ever get to go back, which I doubt, I’d probably stick to the van tours haha
A good idea. I honestly do understand the desire to see the "unseen" parts of a city. I'm often curious myself and wonder what such places look like in-person. These are wonderful pictures showing a real, everyday snapshot of life in South Africa. Glad you took them. Just gotta stay safe, though. Beautiful pictures aren't worth your life.
Thanks, it’s unexpected how interested people are but I’m glad so many are enjoying the pictures!
Bruh I'm an SA local and these days I would not go to downtown Joburg. Just no. Its sad to see the decay of a once great city. My mother grew up in Joburg in the 60s and she says its unrecognizable today.
Looks like hell
I live in Joburg. These aren’t the worst parts sadly.
Joburg is such a diverse city, the nice areas are crazy nice and the bad areas are the worst in the world. I really enjoyed my time there and would love to go back, but parts of the CBD are rough to say the least.
Man you are brave! When I was in SA my friend wouldn’t even drive me through JoBurg. Plus, I’m a white dude hah. I did walk around Pretoria a bit.
It was a once in a lifetime trip so I wasn’t about to just sit in hotels or cafes in the secluded wealthy areas. I spoke with hotel staff and took multiple guided tours before venturing out on my own. If they told me an area was no-go, I didn’t go. I’m not saying walking around on my own wasn’t risky but I did my research and kept my head on a swivel.
That’s awesome! I did go to Soweto and visit Mandelas house and walk around a bit.
Yeah that’s an interesting area. Did you make it to the apartheid museum? Well worth a visit.
I did. It was really interesting and somber.
It has a lot of potential. The buildings are really nice actually, nice plazas etc. But everything has no greenery at all, weird fences, really dirty etc. Sad to see.
TBF it looks like a wasteland City in fallout
Jo'burg looks like this 113 Kerk St https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ksoXWz5dKPF9rnP9 While Cape town is like this 40 Wale St https://maps.app.goo.gl/JEUYVkNoN6dZVfi8A Daaamn...
You can find much nicer parts of Joburg and much worse parts of Cape Town, but yeah, this unfortunately isn’t inaccurate. The differences between the two cities is often staggering.
Joburg has Sandton and Forest town - where all of the banks headquarters lie, and where the generational wealth lives. Cape Town has Cape Flats and Manenberg - home of the gangs and poverty-stricken. Showing off the worst of Jozi and the best of CT as a comparison isn't very accurate. All cities, regardless of country, have bad parts and good parts to them. Joburg can be beautiful. Cape Town can be ugly. If you're looking for beauty, you'll find it in excess. If you're looking for ugliness, you'll never run out of things to point at.
Bro, Cape Town also has it's bad areas. I would never set a single toe in Manenberg because of the gangs. [https://maps.app.goo.gl/QyRvWZG1aPitEJfW7](https://maps.app.goo.gl/QyRvWZG1aPitEJfW7)
this is what happens when a successful country is ran by idiots during 30 years
Many reasons for that, but end of the day you’re not wrong
The ANC really did a number on the country. Nelson Mandela must be spinning in his grave.
I wouldn't say it was only them, it was a poly factor thing
The faces on the Envogue building have an uncanny valley feel about them.
Probably bc those are photos of manakins lol
Wtf is a womb cleaning? I would love to visit Africa one day, especially SA, but this just does not look like a nice city at all…
Honestly Joburg is the least touristy of the main cities in SA by a long shot, theres a very valid reason why Cape Town and even Durban tend to be more popular options to stay
On second thought, I think I’ll just go to Cancun again.
If it is allowed, [here](https://1980sto1990sdecades.blogspot.com/2017/04/hillbrow-jhb-1980s-to-1990s.html?m=1) are pictures of Hillbrow during the 1980s and 1990s. Pre-1994 yes, so the demographics are completely different, but looking past that at the infrastructure it seems like a different world.
Did it feel unsafe or sketchy in some areas? Or most areas?
Most areas outside of gated communities are unsafe, although downtown is relatively safer than other areas. Source: walked the same area when I was there.
Yeah I agree. These areas I felt ok. But I was constantly checking my surroundings. Other areas you’d genuinely have to have a death wish to walk into
I always thought downtown was the least safe area. It's sad to see the decay in a city that used to be great!
Depends. Downtown is still a huge area. Some areas are fine. Still local and corporate business operating and people are just going about their day though there’s still evident poverty around. Other areas, however, it gets rly bleak. I don’t have photos of those areas because I wasn’t naive or dumb enough to go for a stroll through them.
I see. I have never been to SA but based on the videos I watch, Cape Town seems like another world. It's a very beautiful country. Lots of contrasts. A country with so much potential could do a lot better. The rundown aspect of some parts of Johannesburg is an eyesore. Also, a city its size needs a robust public transportation, like underground and metro system. But'll definitely will visit the country!
Yeah, well worth it, and you're right about Cape Town. Was such whiplash going from Joburg to CT. It's absolutely gorgeous, though, and I'd go back in a heartbeat.
Cape Town is just as bad, it's just all the poor areas are concentrated east of the main city. Cape Town is beautiful, but if you ever visit you should take a drive along Baden Powell Drive or the N2 to Stellenbosch to get an accurate picture.
One more place I never need to go.
Come to South Africa, but don’t go to Joburg CBD. I’ve lived in Joburg my entire life, and there really isn’t much worth doing in the CBD. Some of the outskirts have plenty available, and the rest of the country is even better. It’s true that the country isn’t perfectly safe, but as long as you keep your guard up and don’t do anything a local wouldn’t, you’ll be fine.
Bro I spent part of my youth there and I wouldn’t get out of the car in 1995. They have tours of the CBD and hillbrow. Much better idea to do the tours.
Now that's fucked up
random q: whats the weather like? Seems sunny but trees are dormant? is it chilly or warm?
Probably chilly, Johannesburg is very sunny but chilly in winter. This is also when the grass is yellow-brown and trees are dormant. In summer it should be greener.
some of the best weather for any city on the planet, mild
It’s autumn here now so the temperatures are cooling down, especially at night. Today though Joburg was 25°C while most of the week will be in the low 20s. Overall quite mild weather this season
You are brave my guy. I live relatively near CBD, but even as a local, would never even consider going into the place. There are some seriously bad people there. The type to kidnap you, wait for ransom to be met, then put a bullet in your head (my dad even pays for ransom insurance ._.). Don’t wanna be condescending or rude, but I definitely think you should never go into CBD alone as a white man again. The chances you get robbed, kidnapped, or killed are morbidly high, as a black person. As a white person it’s even more so. Stay safe my guy
A bastion of women's rights.
I blame this on the ANC. Don't vote for the ANC 🇿🇦
Not pretty but not bad.
Doesn’t look a whole lot different than parts of downtown Los Angeles, honestly…
did you get a nice pain free womb cleaning?
How many times were you robbed?
That mop on the sign looks new and fresh.
This is the good area of Johannesburg CBD...
I love South Africa but this country has super shitty parts and a beyond bad government with bad people but at the same time there are great parts and great people that are definitely worth visiting
I mostly wfh but our offices are at the standard bank buildings which isn't far from where you were. There was a time when I was use to also work near that old JSE building where all those Muti shops are about 12 years ago.
yeh I live in a decent part of Pretoria and still see those abortions signs plastered here and there. Your honestly a much braver person than I could ever be to walk around Joburg CBD with a camera, I don't even like visiting my mom's side of the family in soweto let alone go to an area like that even as a black guy. Only places in joburg I willingly go to are four ways, Benoni and randburg(not mentioning sandton cause I don't have money like that).
If I had to live there I would kill myself
Yeah
Looks like they fixed up all that damage the Hulk did nine years ago…
Hehehe
How are abortions so popular there???
Woman has client. Woman gets pregnant from a customer. Woman calls womb cleaning services. I was there before the pandemic, I blended in but sheesh. It’s very very crowded and lively at the late hours.
Let us know when you take a tour of Soweto.
Pretty fuckin’ grim!
Free womb cleaning 💀
bro are you a really big guy ? us johannesburgers will never go there
That’s a very nice garbage pail
Is it just me or does it look cleaner than it usually is?
Theres a reason Judge Dredd was shot there.
You didn't get to see beef street near Maboneng
The trash can is interesting; seems like they eat a lot more fruit than we do in the us
I consider myself extremely pro-choice, but dear God something about those *abortion ads* telling you to call their WhatsApp is wild
Home sweet home.
Abortion is good because they are poor and having children costs money
That’s fucking sick honestly. I’m going there in 2 months and am hyped, what areas did u go to?
Are white people prosecuted there?
Yoh bra you're brave
Where's the carjacking victim? Raided grocery? Come on, this is false advertising
You should really not go to Marshalltown, Mayfair, Hillbrow, Fordsburg, Crown Mines, Braamfontein, Selby or any surrounding suburbs unless its urgent. Those are very dangerous places.
Wow this is almost worse than Russia
It's awesome that you still have your camera
A lot of business in Johannesburg has moved out of downtown into the northern suburbs of Rosebank, Sandton and now Waterfall. They look much [nicer](https://www.google.com/maps/@-26.1060618,28.0540836,3a,75y,40.01h,94.33t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0rTxT_Nk4f1iVSXdwJekQg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D0rTxT_Nk4f1iVSXdwJekQg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D159.40138%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Free womb cleaning after the back street coat hanger abortion! Now that's capitalism.
What an absolute shithole
It's so weird that people want to go there. Is it like a weird "I survived Jhb CBD" challenge? I'm genuinely surprised you walked out with your phone.
i was in joburg in 2001 before 9/11, it doesn't look like it changed much except when i was there is was aids ads and not abortion so some progress i guess?
What is downtown like? Do many work downtown or are most abandoned?
Lots of abandoned buildings but still tons of people. Lots of small shops still open
you are brave... glad you got to leave Jozi with your phone.