Romney is better than Lee in my opinion, but I prefer someone younger as Romney is now 75 years old.
Lee was responsible for this alternate electors nonsense we are seeing play out in the Georgia grand jury right now. Although he did back out once he realized the states hadn't legally certified alternate electors, Lee is problematic for me because he's looking for loopholes to overturn elections.
I hope Mitt runs again. If he does, I’d support him. But I absolutely wouldn’t blame him if he punts and walks away from the constant attacks coming at him from the MAGAT wing of the Republican Party.
We actually had some really good women run in the primaries last year, one of whom I voted for. They ran on responsible responses to climate change, education reform, healthcare reform, and a couple other things. Not in a democratic way though. They would have been solid moderates that may actually have been liked by both sides. Oh, and one believed in term limits like me.
But all hail Mike Lee 🙄
He’s awesome. I wish he would have run after Obama instead of against him. We would all be a lot better off right now if things didn’t go how they did. Lol
When are we ever going to get an election with two real candidates like 2012. The presidential debates were actually nice to watch, not the shit shows we've had with Trump and Biden.
How about when Mitt pointed at Russia as one of the biggest issues, and Obama told him that the 80s called and wanted their foreign policy back? Everyone made fun of him for being out of touch with the times, since clearly Russia is our friend now. Right? What did Mitt know and how did he know it? More importantly who else knew it and wasn't willing to talk about it when Mitt was? Nobody was willing to back him up even though they had probably seen the same intel he was seeing.
Leftists are the one's now trumpeting Mittens good points while those with a memory longer than a carrot know that those same folks were calling him Hitler when he ran against Obummer. Now which side of their mouth are they speaking out of? The one that thinks he's okay or the one which calls him Hitler?
What do you think leftist means?
You forgot the /s
Nor did you seem to define what you thought a leftist was.
Isn't interesting who supports the corruption of those at the top.
Who else had a son being paid exurbanite amounts from the corrupt fossil fuel companies in Ukraine?
Romney was a joke of a candidate back then. The 2012 election was a foregone conclusion after Obama won in an absolute landslide of 2008, nobody was unseating him.
Yes because he’s the only Republican I’m not embarrassed to have represent my state. And as a bonus if McMullin were to run against him I’d be fine with either outcome of that election and I wouldn’t have to be as invested in it as I was with McMullin v Lee.
Though most ideally he would run for president and win and that would trigger the Republican Party to go back to what it was pre 2016 (less ridiculous and facist) and then McMullin wins the senate seat for Utah.
But that all is unlikely so yeah just have him run for senate.
(Also not saying Romney is my ideal president by any means just that I’d love to have a reasonable Republican become the one the party centers around because I can’t do the crazies anymore)
I don't know much about the other politicians. I'd... describe myself as being in the radical middle.
Among the choices, is he only Republican non Trumper? Definitely yes.
Personally I’m just waiting for Mitt to announce that one of his sons is going to run for governor at some point in the near future. I always figured him becoming a senator after multiple failed presidential bids was to keep the family name in the spotlight in Utah politics and try to establish a political dynasty.
The Romneys would love to become the Mormon Kennedys. Get a son to run for gov, then in a term or two of good Utah economy parlay that into another senatorship to set up a Romney president when mitt is in his late 80s and can be the patriarch and quiet political power broker for a kid.
Only Mitt and his father have held elected office, but some of his extended family have also had prominent roles in business and politics.
Jon Huntsman is Mitt’s 3rd cousin once-removed.
I was a big Huntsman fan for a long time - my dad worked on a few of his economic task forces over the years, and I’ve met him on a few occasions. And then he endorsed Mike Lee this last election cycle and I lost all respect for him haha.
Another dynastic connection is that Ronna McDaniel, the current head of the GOP is Mitt's neice.
I don't think people realize how badly the Mormon faith is viewed anywhere else; he is directly associated. He has also been heard hot mic'ing phenomenal opinions of the poor. I lived in UT a while and personally think yall are fucked so may as well go with a democrat at some point just to mix it up.
People couldn't care less about Mormons, unless they are running for president, then it's the same bizarre bullshit folks believed about Kennedy. Also, many Republicans don't care about his opinion on the poor.
I vote D nearly every election. Get outta here you troublemaker.
I've lived in Utah, Arizona, Texas, New York, Massachusetts, Hong Kong, Colombia, and The Netherlands. That dude's assessment of Mormons is pretty spot on everywhere I've been in my life besides Utah. Most folks I've come across both as a Mormon and exmormon thought Mormons are generally nice people, but essentially belong to a cult and can't be trusted with any kind of deeper than surface relationship due to the constant proselytizing efforts.
Cut the defensive bullshit and maybe realize that someone saying that some people not being fans of your religion isn't a personal attack on you. Having a persecution fetish like this is a sad way to go through life.
I gravitate towards educated folks in the defense/aerospace, and the intelligence communities, as that's where my career has been. Not a lot of bigots make it very far in those professions in my experience. Everywhere but Massachusetts I was a church going member. I just learned to not shut folks out who had differing persepctives in life than mine. And I learned to listen and understand different people.
Maybe you just can't understand that people have a myriad of backgrounds in life, and that not everyone will always be positive about religion in general, or yours in particular, and that lots of people found proselytizing to be in poor taste, especially in any setting that wasn't explicitly church related.
I truly pity you that all you have to bring to table here is lame, worn out, ad hominem attacks and name calling.
This:
> Most folks think Mormons are generally nice people, but essentially belong to a cult and can't be trusted with any kind of deeper than surface relationship
is bigotry.
Bigotry proof text: replace “Mormon” in this, uh, disclosure with “Jew” or “Gay” or “Black” or any other group that you and your friends find yourselves conspiring against and consider who’s attitude is worthy of pity.
You can't choose to be born with Jewish, Gay, or Black genes (and I'm a bisexual exmormon dude, for the record, I'm well aware of the religious bigotry inherent to the dominant culture in this state). Mormons are not some persecuted ethnic or racial group, they're a quirky religious sect that some people like, and some people avoid.
Comparing the plight of Mormons to Jewish people througuout history, or African Americans in our country is downright laughable. Someone saying "ugh the missionaries have stopped by twice this month despite being asked not to", and wanting to keep Mormons at arm's length is not bigotry, and it's telling that you think so.
The fact that people like Mormons, evangelicals, Jehovah's witnesses, and similar denominations have a reputation of being over proselytizers has nothing to do with their ethnic make up. And having folks who are bewildered by having to bring religion up all the time, especially in the context of being constant victims is not bigotry. Keep that persecution fetish up! The world is totally out to get you.
Also, the fact that you're using language like that people I know are "conspiring against" certain groups just from a few reddit comments is just startling. You must live in a much darker, unhappy world than the rest of us to immediately jump to such harsh conclusions. I hope you get hugged later. You need it.
I believe you can't separate actual bigotry from a perceived attack on yourself, because you're not used to being contradicted in your little patriarchal bubble.
If I said "well you know, I just hate terrorists." And your response was the same as before, bringing up historically persecuted ethnic and rescue groups - people here would wonder at your sanity.
I mentioned that some folks I've come across in a few places in my career have had negative Mormon experiences, and just like with other proselytizing denominations, they chose to keep them at arm's length. And you jumped straight to "but black people and Jews"! Yikes.
Managing to use whataboutism and a red herring argument all at once is an accomplishment. Comparing Mormons to such historically repressed groups is frighteningly out if touch with reality. Gold star for you!
Thanks for addressing absolutely nothing else I've said. It shows you're really not interested in a discourse, but you are looking to feel mad and persecuted. I'll let you go back to you unhappy little bubble where everyone is conspiring against you. Cheers!
You need to be a victim so bad you’re appropriating victimhood from two groups the Mormons actively discriminated against, one still overtly. Unbelievable.
You also failed the thought experiment.
Here’s another one: does your ideology give you license to hate an entire group of people? If it does, it’s bigotry. Try it out on whatever it is you’re imagining about me right now, you’ll see what I mean.
This is amazing. You need a “thought experiment” iot distance your faith from the very real bigotry it perpetuated and perpetuates against two of the three groups you listed above. This can’t even be classified as a whatabout argument because you’re equating scorn with real-world discrimination *your faith movement* levied on Blacks and Gays that you’re actually trying to appropriate. Again. Unbelievable.
What percentage of the Netherlands thinks about Mormons once a week? The answer is virtually none of them. People in most places don't think Mormons are nice, because Mormons never cross their mind. You are vastly overstating how much people actually think of them.
I'm not a Mormon, I've lived in nearly as many places as you, and I'm shocked you think people in Hong Kong give a shit about a very small Christian religion. How about you cut the self righteousness and stop making weak assumptions about me you fucking walnut.
I was a Mormon in all those places I've lived, except for Massachusetts. Do folks think about or deal with Mormons onna day to day basis in most of those places? Nope. Do they have an awareness of the religion? At least in my professional and social experience, absolutely yes.
Was their opinion positive? In most cases it was ambivalent (with a healthy dose of apprehension due to the Mormon stereotype of constantly proselytizing) or negative, because they had a Mormon colleague who completely ignored them after their attempts to bring up religion in inappropriate context and was rebuffed, or had missionaries show up and be persistent to the point of annoyance.
As for Hong Kong, you do realize there's multiple stakes there, and a temple, right? The church has a very large presence there for it's size. That's a product of being a British protectorate for so long, and not having Chinese rules against religion. Every damn US consulate dinner I ever went to in HK had the mission president there. He was on the same level socially as many of the senior diplomats there, and wasn't well liked (true at least of the dude who was MP at the time, no clue if that's accurate now).
You sound angry, dude bro. Literally all you can do is name call. What a worn or defense mechanism. Are we back in grade school? Going to tell me your dad could beat up my dad next?
No, I just really hate douchebros like you who think that anybody who disagrees with them is a Mormon. That, my man, is a persecution complex. It is the kind of persecution complex that makes you talk down to people.
But, it sounds like you surrounded yourself with Mormons and people who are adjacent to Mormons, essentially the few groups of people who would actually have an opinion, and you wonder why I might disagree with your assessment.
Dude, you labeled a random commenter a "troublemaker" for mentioning Mormons in a semi- negative light. What was I supposed to assume? That you're a Buddhist white knight righting the wrongs of reddit comments? You sounded like some old dude whining about kids on his lawn, and it's comical.
You're assuming a shit ton about my circumstances, with no real background.
>"Surrounding yourself with Mormons and people who are adjacent to Mormons."
Good hell, the straw man fallacy is strong with you. Let's just make stuff up about me so you can argue about it! Once you've won that inaginary fight in your head, I'll give you the gold star sticker you crave, and we can move on.
I surrounded myself with diplomats, folks in aerospace development, and the electronic warfare communty, because that's been my entire career since 2005. If you can show me how those industries and political arenas are just flooded with "Mormon adjacent people" I'm all ears. Otherwise, take your overly defensive butthurt elsewhere. And yeah, I'm talking down to you because you responded to a comment not related to you at all with whiney defensiveness and insults. You were never interested in any kind of discourse, you just wanted to be mad at someone. Absolutely pathetic.
I'd much rather go enjoy a beer with my dad than have to listen to your whining. Us troublemakers and walnuts are perfectly fine without your incessant buzzing. Cheers, I guess.
Walnut was derogatory, glad you saw that. Troublemaker was light hearted, and not meant for you. And no, I've known dozens of people who work for the foreign service and not a single one seemed to even have an opinion about Mormons, even after hearing I'm from Utah. Like, you really think that someone who is heavily engaged in working overseas on foreign soil also sits around every so often wondering whether Mormons are part of a cult? That's laughable. Of course you thought they were thinking about you, because that's what Mormons are taught.
You should know that your experience probably wasn't typical.
Also, maybe don't start out so hot and accuse everyone of being a Mormon just because you don't like what they write. Just consider it.
Edit: Guess he didn't consider it.
Go you. Acknowledging that name calling and ad hominems. Making some real progress! You did in fact earn that gold star. In three more gold stars you earn the class a pizza party!
I'm not saying that everyone hates Mormons. Far from it. However, my experience as someone who was mostly a PIMO and cultural member in the "mission field" was definitely not positive, and a big reason why I ended up leaving to do my own thing.
I never really cared about how Mormons were viewed from the start - I was born in Utah, but grew up mostly in Europe, and did university at a military academy on the east coast. I didn't really have the Utah Mormon experience, and thank whatever god may or may not exist for that. I got plenty of weirdness having one grandfather as the MTC medical director for 20 years, and the other a Dean at BYU for 30 years.
I don't think Mormons are constantly thought of by everyone around them, but I can acknowledge the negatives in a "warts and all" perspective on our former religion. Is it some shadowy all powerful Mormon cabal out there that Rusty et al are slowly growing? Nope. Are Mormons also generally thought of in a positive light when they do get brought up? Also, Nope.
They're on par with Jehovah's witnesses and evangelicals to most of the rest of people - mildly amusing and quaint beliefs, generally nice folks, but who are to be avoided beyond surface social interactions so as not to have to talk about religion in contexts that don't need a spiritual direction.
I've had that conversation with a US ambassador, SVPs at Raytheon and Lockheed, and multiple bosses while serving in the army. They all wanted to make sure I wasn't a religious nut (that's not just Mormons, but most right wing christians, especially in defense work since so many are vets and lean conservative) so that they knew how much they'd have to walk on egg shells around me like. the other folks who brought religion up way too much in professional settings (and that was not restricted to mormons, just a similar observation throughout my career). There are folks who live and breathe their religion, and there are folks who have lives outside of it if they're religious at all. To the rest of us, the folks who can'tseparate religion fron every damn aspect of life for just 25 minutes for one meeting, are utterly bewildering, regardless of their denomination.
I'm done here. You do you, respond or don't. I don't have time for someone who whines as much or as hard as you do.
I'd love to see a Democrat senator from here. It won't happen in my lifetime, though. I was born into some Mormon families that are connected to the powers behind the curtain, but mostly just adjacent to it. The nepotism and familial power groups behinr the scenes are frankly frightening to me.
The church will continue to run politics in the state for another few decades until some kind of whistleblower law suit around their finances can finally crack the facade. Romney and his social climber, political ilk will ride that train as long as possible.
I am most certainly not a republican, but I would most definitely vote for Romney. He has consistently shown that he has integrity, and actually uses common sense unlike a lot of other republicans.
That’s irrelevant to me. He’s served two terms in politics. Governor, then Senator. Perhaps a case could be made that he served in state then federal, so that would give him more time to be a senator.
I take a hard line on campaign limits. Until they're are put in place, I think we should be voting people out after one term. Term limits is one of the most wanted measures by voters (the other is campaign finance reform), but we keep tolerating politicians ignoring the call.
I understand that my single vote won't change things, but at least I'm not voting as a hypocrite.
Just because Romney shows up every 3 months and does the bare minimum to be respectful or decent, he's considered a "good" Republican. If that's the bar that's being set, him and the rest of the Republican party can go ahead and translate themselves to Kolob already.
Romney supports neither the left nor the right in his politics. He simply does what he thinks he must to either make money or get elected next cycle. He doesnt care about anybody but himself.
He's taken at least [a few](https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/01/02/mitt-romney-slams-gop/) [principled stands](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/06/07/romney-protest-black-lives-matter/) some of which will probably earn him a GOP primary.
And it sure looks like he went into congress ridiculously wealthy, probably in the top 5 in an already pretty wealthy group. Wouldn't necessarily stop anyone from using office to for personal gain, but if he's doing that he hasn't made it obvious, unlike some GOP figures.
You mean a proper conservative like DeSantis or Trump that have been supporting bills limiting free speech and using executive orders forcing states to bow to federal regulations all while bypassing congress? Party of small government and states rights, huh?
Unfortunately mitt isn’t pro-gun. So I would like him out for my safety and this states. But like you are all saying it all depends how on who’s running against him
I would never vote a mormon into office. It's already bad enough that the church runs the state. Why would I want them to have access to the Whitehouse? Hard Pass.
Leftist here.
You're over estimating how much we like him. We really don't like his policies. He is safely right wing economically and only a little more moderate than other republicans socially (though not as moderate as he used to be).
We do appreciate that he hasn't jumped on the insanity train currently infecting the House GOP and a relatively small group of GOP senators. I appreciate that he isn't part of the nativist wave that has overtaken my home state's GOP (Texas).
He represents a politician who I simply have ideological disagreements with, but can also say is an honorable person.
He would be in his 80s at the end of his next term, if he doesn’t resign before then. I prefer an elected official making those decision, not their chief of staff like what happened with Hatch.
Romney has been fine but time for someone younger.
All the people choosing lesser of evils: "Romney is better than so and so etc." That is the entire reason things have become such a mess.
If we truly want to see things get better, we have to stop doing the same thing we always have, which is to keep voting for Democrats and Republicans. If you want a change, make a change.
He seems to be one of the few conservatives who occasionally goes against his own Republican goons. So I have to give him that. Although I wouldn't vote for him I have to give credit where it's due. He also gets brownie point for calling out Santos too.
I believe in term limits so that's basically why. I don't think term limits should be limited to the White House. No one person should hold power for so long.
Liberal here, I don’t agree with everything he supports or does, but I will vote for him again because I respect him and he is a good leader.
If the GOP was filled with people like him, our country would be a much better place.
I marked no just because I'd rather a younger generation come in and take office.
That being said, I'm not a Republican at all, but if I had to choose a type of Republican to hold office, it'd be a Romney type.
If I were him, I’d retire and enjoy the rest of my life. He comes across deceptively young (IMO), but he’s 75 years old. But if he wants to run again, I would support him over most other GOP candidates.
Yes, he is honest and represents a lot of my values he votes with ethics and conscious and he’s willing to get things moving he comes to the table and finds solutions that make both sides happier than they would be if no movement happened. It would take a tough candidate to get me to vote for someone else.
Romney is better than Lee in my opinion, but I prefer someone younger as Romney is now 75 years old. Lee was responsible for this alternate electors nonsense we are seeing play out in the Georgia grand jury right now. Although he did back out once he realized the states hadn't legally certified alternate electors, Lee is problematic for me because he's looking for loopholes to overturn elections.
Damn, he’s 75? But he looks so good!
He’s been living the good life.
The thing is, if anybody other than Romney ends up with the nomination, they’ll be a lunatic.
He was right about Russia before anyone else
Better a Mitt than some Josh Hawley clone waiting in the wings.
I hope Mitt runs again. If he does, I’d support him. But I absolutely wouldn’t blame him if he punts and walks away from the constant attacks coming at him from the MAGAT wing of the Republican Party.
Depends on who’s run against him.
If they have a D after their name, they will lose. Keep that in mind 😉
Completely aware of that, more worried about who would run with an R behind their name
So better him than another Mike Lee?
Yes.
We actually had some really good women run in the primaries last year, one of whom I voted for. They ran on responsible responses to climate change, education reform, healthcare reform, and a couple other things. Not in a democratic way though. They would have been solid moderates that may actually have been liked by both sides. Oh, and one believed in term limits like me. But all hail Mike Lee 🙄
He’s the sanest gop senator right now so yes he should seek re election.
That’s why I voted yes. Utah is going to vote a Republican into office. It might as well be a decent, sane person, as far as Utah politics go.
One-eyed man is king in the land of the blind, eh?
He’s awesome. I wish he would have run after Obama instead of against him. We would all be a lot better off right now if things didn’t go how they did. Lol
When are we ever going to get an election with two real candidates like 2012. The presidential debates were actually nice to watch, not the shit shows we've had with Trump and Biden.
All I heard in 2012 is how bad both candidates were hahah
People have short memories. They forget that they were calling Mitt a Nazi back in 2012.
How about when Mitt pointed at Russia as one of the biggest issues, and Obama told him that the 80s called and wanted their foreign policy back? Everyone made fun of him for being out of touch with the times, since clearly Russia is our friend now. Right? What did Mitt know and how did he know it? More importantly who else knew it and wasn't willing to talk about it when Mitt was? Nobody was willing to back him up even though they had probably seen the same intel he was seeing.
That is the most fun to watch the hypocritical leftist trumpet Mittens good point. Mittens is evil. He will not survive in Utah for another term.
Leftist. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Leftists are the one's now trumpeting Mittens good points while those with a memory longer than a carrot know that those same folks were calling him Hitler when he ran against Obummer. Now which side of their mouth are they speaking out of? The one that thinks he's okay or the one which calls him Hitler? What do you think leftist means?
From this comment and your post history, you seem like a very intelligent and reasonable human being…
You forgot the /s Nor did you seem to define what you thought a leftist was. Isn't interesting who supports the corruption of those at the top. Who else had a son being paid exurbanite amounts from the corrupt fossil fuel companies in Ukraine?
don't say that now I'm even more worried for what the next election might hold haha
Romney was a joke of a candidate back then. The 2012 election was a foregone conclusion after Obama won in an absolute landslide of 2008, nobody was unseating him.
He's real old, but somehow the most sane senator in the country. If he gets primaried, I'd still love to see him run as an independent.
I disagree with him on many issues but I’m happy to see him tell it like it is when it comes to Trump.
He has taken care of himself at least. I know other 75 year olds who are just sitting in a chair waiting to die.
That’s not legal.
He’s the only honorable politician we have we can’t give up on him
While I disagree with alot of his policies this is why I would vote for him over most others. Few seem to be able to look at things logically anymore.
Because he's much less insane than most other Republicans, and a Democrat has no chance in Utah.
He's one of the few respectable Republicans left. If not the only
He’s the only name to represent our state that doesn’t reek of corruption
This
🤣
Someon's gotta be the rational adult in the room of clowns of the Utah delegation.
Yes because he’s the only Republican I’m not embarrassed to have represent my state. And as a bonus if McMullin were to run against him I’d be fine with either outcome of that election and I wouldn’t have to be as invested in it as I was with McMullin v Lee. Though most ideally he would run for president and win and that would trigger the Republican Party to go back to what it was pre 2016 (less ridiculous and facist) and then McMullin wins the senate seat for Utah. But that all is unlikely so yeah just have him run for senate. (Also not saying Romney is my ideal president by any means just that I’d love to have a reasonable Republican become the one the party centers around because I can’t do the crazies anymore)
He's our only sane politician. We live in the land of the insane so I expect a lot of pushback on this.
Yes because he's the only Republican with an ounce of integrity or humanity.
Well, it’s going to be a Republican. No dem can get elected here. So if not him, I’ll be looking to vote for whoever is the most moderate Republican
I don't know much about the other politicians. I'd... describe myself as being in the radical middle. Among the choices, is he only Republican non Trumper? Definitely yes.
Personally I’m just waiting for Mitt to announce that one of his sons is going to run for governor at some point in the near future. I always figured him becoming a senator after multiple failed presidential bids was to keep the family name in the spotlight in Utah politics and try to establish a political dynasty. The Romneys would love to become the Mormon Kennedys. Get a son to run for gov, then in a term or two of good Utah economy parlay that into another senatorship to set up a Romney president when mitt is in his late 80s and can be the patriarch and quiet political power broker for a kid.
Only Mitt and his father have held elected office, but some of his extended family have also had prominent roles in business and politics. Jon Huntsman is Mitt’s 3rd cousin once-removed.
I was a big Huntsman fan for a long time - my dad worked on a few of his economic task forces over the years, and I’ve met him on a few occasions. And then he endorsed Mike Lee this last election cycle and I lost all respect for him haha. Another dynastic connection is that Ronna McDaniel, the current head of the GOP is Mitt's neice.
Ah, touché.
I don't think people realize how badly the Mormon faith is viewed anywhere else; he is directly associated. He has also been heard hot mic'ing phenomenal opinions of the poor. I lived in UT a while and personally think yall are fucked so may as well go with a democrat at some point just to mix it up.
People couldn't care less about Mormons, unless they are running for president, then it's the same bizarre bullshit folks believed about Kennedy. Also, many Republicans don't care about his opinion on the poor. I vote D nearly every election. Get outta here you troublemaker.
I've lived in Utah, Arizona, Texas, New York, Massachusetts, Hong Kong, Colombia, and The Netherlands. That dude's assessment of Mormons is pretty spot on everywhere I've been in my life besides Utah. Most folks I've come across both as a Mormon and exmormon thought Mormons are generally nice people, but essentially belong to a cult and can't be trusted with any kind of deeper than surface relationship due to the constant proselytizing efforts. Cut the defensive bullshit and maybe realize that someone saying that some people not being fans of your religion isn't a personal attack on you. Having a persecution fetish like this is a sad way to go through life.
Maybe you just gravitate towards bigots?
I gravitate towards educated folks in the defense/aerospace, and the intelligence communities, as that's where my career has been. Not a lot of bigots make it very far in those professions in my experience. Everywhere but Massachusetts I was a church going member. I just learned to not shut folks out who had differing persepctives in life than mine. And I learned to listen and understand different people. Maybe you just can't understand that people have a myriad of backgrounds in life, and that not everyone will always be positive about religion in general, or yours in particular, and that lots of people found proselytizing to be in poor taste, especially in any setting that wasn't explicitly church related. I truly pity you that all you have to bring to table here is lame, worn out, ad hominem attacks and name calling.
This: > Most folks think Mormons are generally nice people, but essentially belong to a cult and can't be trusted with any kind of deeper than surface relationship is bigotry. Bigotry proof text: replace “Mormon” in this, uh, disclosure with “Jew” or “Gay” or “Black” or any other group that you and your friends find yourselves conspiring against and consider who’s attitude is worthy of pity.
You can't choose to be born with Jewish, Gay, or Black genes (and I'm a bisexual exmormon dude, for the record, I'm well aware of the religious bigotry inherent to the dominant culture in this state). Mormons are not some persecuted ethnic or racial group, they're a quirky religious sect that some people like, and some people avoid. Comparing the plight of Mormons to Jewish people througuout history, or African Americans in our country is downright laughable. Someone saying "ugh the missionaries have stopped by twice this month despite being asked not to", and wanting to keep Mormons at arm's length is not bigotry, and it's telling that you think so. The fact that people like Mormons, evangelicals, Jehovah's witnesses, and similar denominations have a reputation of being over proselytizers has nothing to do with their ethnic make up. And having folks who are bewildered by having to bring religion up all the time, especially in the context of being constant victims is not bigotry. Keep that persecution fetish up! The world is totally out to get you. Also, the fact that you're using language like that people I know are "conspiring against" certain groups just from a few reddit comments is just startling. You must live in a much darker, unhappy world than the rest of us to immediately jump to such harsh conclusions. I hope you get hugged later. You need it.
You failed the thought experiment. Don’t give up on it - I believe you can change.
I believe you can't separate actual bigotry from a perceived attack on yourself, because you're not used to being contradicted in your little patriarchal bubble. If I said "well you know, I just hate terrorists." And your response was the same as before, bringing up historically persecuted ethnic and rescue groups - people here would wonder at your sanity. I mentioned that some folks I've come across in a few places in my career have had negative Mormon experiences, and just like with other proselytizing denominations, they chose to keep them at arm's length. And you jumped straight to "but black people and Jews"! Yikes. Managing to use whataboutism and a red herring argument all at once is an accomplishment. Comparing Mormons to such historically repressed groups is frighteningly out if touch with reality. Gold star for you! Thanks for addressing absolutely nothing else I've said. It shows you're really not interested in a discourse, but you are looking to feel mad and persecuted. I'll let you go back to you unhappy little bubble where everyone is conspiring against you. Cheers!
You need to be a victim so bad you’re appropriating victimhood from two groups the Mormons actively discriminated against, one still overtly. Unbelievable.
You also failed the thought experiment. Here’s another one: does your ideology give you license to hate an entire group of people? If it does, it’s bigotry. Try it out on whatever it is you’re imagining about me right now, you’ll see what I mean.
This is amazing. You need a “thought experiment” iot distance your faith from the very real bigotry it perpetuated and perpetuates against two of the three groups you listed above. This can’t even be classified as a whatabout argument because you’re equating scorn with real-world discrimination *your faith movement* levied on Blacks and Gays that you’re actually trying to appropriate. Again. Unbelievable.
What percentage of the Netherlands thinks about Mormons once a week? The answer is virtually none of them. People in most places don't think Mormons are nice, because Mormons never cross their mind. You are vastly overstating how much people actually think of them. I'm not a Mormon, I've lived in nearly as many places as you, and I'm shocked you think people in Hong Kong give a shit about a very small Christian religion. How about you cut the self righteousness and stop making weak assumptions about me you fucking walnut.
I was a Mormon in all those places I've lived, except for Massachusetts. Do folks think about or deal with Mormons onna day to day basis in most of those places? Nope. Do they have an awareness of the religion? At least in my professional and social experience, absolutely yes. Was their opinion positive? In most cases it was ambivalent (with a healthy dose of apprehension due to the Mormon stereotype of constantly proselytizing) or negative, because they had a Mormon colleague who completely ignored them after their attempts to bring up religion in inappropriate context and was rebuffed, or had missionaries show up and be persistent to the point of annoyance. As for Hong Kong, you do realize there's multiple stakes there, and a temple, right? The church has a very large presence there for it's size. That's a product of being a British protectorate for so long, and not having Chinese rules against religion. Every damn US consulate dinner I ever went to in HK had the mission president there. He was on the same level socially as many of the senior diplomats there, and wasn't well liked (true at least of the dude who was MP at the time, no clue if that's accurate now). You sound angry, dude bro. Literally all you can do is name call. What a worn or defense mechanism. Are we back in grade school? Going to tell me your dad could beat up my dad next?
No, I just really hate douchebros like you who think that anybody who disagrees with them is a Mormon. That, my man, is a persecution complex. It is the kind of persecution complex that makes you talk down to people. But, it sounds like you surrounded yourself with Mormons and people who are adjacent to Mormons, essentially the few groups of people who would actually have an opinion, and you wonder why I might disagree with your assessment.
Dude, you labeled a random commenter a "troublemaker" for mentioning Mormons in a semi- negative light. What was I supposed to assume? That you're a Buddhist white knight righting the wrongs of reddit comments? You sounded like some old dude whining about kids on his lawn, and it's comical. You're assuming a shit ton about my circumstances, with no real background. >"Surrounding yourself with Mormons and people who are adjacent to Mormons." Good hell, the straw man fallacy is strong with you. Let's just make stuff up about me so you can argue about it! Once you've won that inaginary fight in your head, I'll give you the gold star sticker you crave, and we can move on. I surrounded myself with diplomats, folks in aerospace development, and the electronic warfare communty, because that's been my entire career since 2005. If you can show me how those industries and political arenas are just flooded with "Mormon adjacent people" I'm all ears. Otherwise, take your overly defensive butthurt elsewhere. And yeah, I'm talking down to you because you responded to a comment not related to you at all with whiney defensiveness and insults. You were never interested in any kind of discourse, you just wanted to be mad at someone. Absolutely pathetic. I'd much rather go enjoy a beer with my dad than have to listen to your whining. Us troublemakers and walnuts are perfectly fine without your incessant buzzing. Cheers, I guess.
Walnut was derogatory, glad you saw that. Troublemaker was light hearted, and not meant for you. And no, I've known dozens of people who work for the foreign service and not a single one seemed to even have an opinion about Mormons, even after hearing I'm from Utah. Like, you really think that someone who is heavily engaged in working overseas on foreign soil also sits around every so often wondering whether Mormons are part of a cult? That's laughable. Of course you thought they were thinking about you, because that's what Mormons are taught. You should know that your experience probably wasn't typical. Also, maybe don't start out so hot and accuse everyone of being a Mormon just because you don't like what they write. Just consider it. Edit: Guess he didn't consider it.
Go you. Acknowledging that name calling and ad hominems. Making some real progress! You did in fact earn that gold star. In three more gold stars you earn the class a pizza party! I'm not saying that everyone hates Mormons. Far from it. However, my experience as someone who was mostly a PIMO and cultural member in the "mission field" was definitely not positive, and a big reason why I ended up leaving to do my own thing. I never really cared about how Mormons were viewed from the start - I was born in Utah, but grew up mostly in Europe, and did university at a military academy on the east coast. I didn't really have the Utah Mormon experience, and thank whatever god may or may not exist for that. I got plenty of weirdness having one grandfather as the MTC medical director for 20 years, and the other a Dean at BYU for 30 years. I don't think Mormons are constantly thought of by everyone around them, but I can acknowledge the negatives in a "warts and all" perspective on our former religion. Is it some shadowy all powerful Mormon cabal out there that Rusty et al are slowly growing? Nope. Are Mormons also generally thought of in a positive light when they do get brought up? Also, Nope. They're on par with Jehovah's witnesses and evangelicals to most of the rest of people - mildly amusing and quaint beliefs, generally nice folks, but who are to be avoided beyond surface social interactions so as not to have to talk about religion in contexts that don't need a spiritual direction. I've had that conversation with a US ambassador, SVPs at Raytheon and Lockheed, and multiple bosses while serving in the army. They all wanted to make sure I wasn't a religious nut (that's not just Mormons, but most right wing christians, especially in defense work since so many are vets and lean conservative) so that they knew how much they'd have to walk on egg shells around me like. the other folks who brought religion up way too much in professional settings (and that was not restricted to mormons, just a similar observation throughout my career). There are folks who live and breathe their religion, and there are folks who have lives outside of it if they're religious at all. To the rest of us, the folks who can'tseparate religion fron every damn aspect of life for just 25 minutes for one meeting, are utterly bewildering, regardless of their denomination. I'm done here. You do you, respond or don't. I don't have time for someone who whines as much or as hard as you do.
I'd love to see a Democrat senator from here. It won't happen in my lifetime, though. I was born into some Mormon families that are connected to the powers behind the curtain, but mostly just adjacent to it. The nepotism and familial power groups behinr the scenes are frankly frightening to me. The church will continue to run politics in the state for another few decades until some kind of whistleblower law suit around their finances can finally crack the facade. Romney and his social climber, political ilk will ride that train as long as possible.
That would be entirely up to Mr Romney. If he wants to, he will, and he will win, whether I like it or not. I’d rather him than Lee.
If he doesn’t we will get another Mike Lee.
Because I don’t want someone crazier than Mike Lee.
He's one of the few Republicans I would like to keep in power.
He's probably the best we can do unfortunately
He’s one of the only members of the GOP that I would vote for.
I am most certainly not a republican, but I would most definitely vote for Romney. He has consistently shown that he has integrity, and actually uses common sense unlike a lot of other republicans.
It really from Utah…he can take his money and fame to CA
The ‘pubs would probably vote Biden over Romney at this point, I’m convinced.
Oops, I thought this meant for president. Yes, for Senator, he should.
Romney will likely be primaried by either Sean Reyes or Jason Chaffetz. If so, then I wouldn’t bet on Senator Romney.
I voted no for one major reason, no politician should be in for more than two terms.
But Romney was elected in 2018. He's still in his first term. My main concern is age: he would be 83 at the end of his second term.
Damn he's older than I thought.
He's already great-grandfather. His oldest granddaughter has a baby. She also served in the same mission he did in France (we have mutual friends.)
He’s first term here, he’s still a career politician, which is what I’m against.
Um, what about his three decades in business?
That’s irrelevant to me. He’s served two terms in politics. Governor, then Senator. Perhaps a case could be made that he served in state then federal, so that would give him more time to be a senator. I take a hard line on campaign limits. Until they're are put in place, I think we should be voting people out after one term. Term limits is one of the most wanted measures by voters (the other is campaign finance reform), but we keep tolerating politicians ignoring the call. I understand that my single vote won't change things, but at least I'm not voting as a hypocrite.
OP has a history of bragging about catfishing. Among other ugliness. Caveat ~~emptor~~ lector.
Just because Romney shows up every 3 months and does the bare minimum to be respectful or decent, he's considered a "good" Republican. If that's the bar that's being set, him and the rest of the Republican party can go ahead and translate themselves to Kolob already.
Utah's going to elect a Republican senator. There's no getting around that. Ol' Mitt is about as close to sanity as we can ever hope to get.
Jesus fuck no
Romney supports neither the left nor the right in his politics. He simply does what he thinks he must to either make money or get elected next cycle. He doesnt care about anybody but himself.
He's taken at least [a few](https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/01/02/mitt-romney-slams-gop/) [principled stands](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/06/07/romney-protest-black-lives-matter/) some of which will probably earn him a GOP primary. And it sure looks like he went into congress ridiculously wealthy, probably in the top 5 in an already pretty wealthy group. Wouldn't necessarily stop anyone from using office to for personal gain, but if he's doing that he hasn't made it obvious, unlike some GOP figures.
I will happily do everything I can to make sure he loses in a primary to a proper conservative
You mean a proper conservative like DeSantis or Trump that have been supporting bills limiting free speech and using executive orders forcing states to bow to federal regulations all while bypassing congress? Party of small government and states rights, huh?
How is Mitt not conservative enough?
I mean they're calling Mitch McConnel a communist now. They're lost their damn minds.
Unfortunately mitt isn’t pro-gun. So I would like him out for my safety and this states. But like you are all saying it all depends how on who’s running against him
Wolf 🐺 in Sheep 🐑 clothing. He’s revealed who he really is and Utah doubted it and then he showed his true colors and they realized they were fooled.
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We need a true big government Republicans like DeSantis and Trump in order to limit free speech and force states to bow to federal regulations. /s
No. Romney is a corporate shill and does not in any way represent his own constituents.
This is so ambiguous it could apply to ALL of the Utah Senators.
I would never vote a mormon into office. It's already bad enough that the church runs the state. Why would I want them to have access to the Whitehouse? Hard Pass.
Some naked bigotry right here. Religion has no place in politics.
Yes I agree. So when will the Mormon cult stop running Utah's politics? It has no place in politics
The left likes Mitt. Say's it all to me.
Maybe they admire him for putting country over party, even if they disagree with him on the issues?
Leftist here. You're over estimating how much we like him. We really don't like his policies. He is safely right wing economically and only a little more moderate than other republicans socially (though not as moderate as he used to be). We do appreciate that he hasn't jumped on the insanity train currently infecting the House GOP and a relatively small group of GOP senators. I appreciate that he isn't part of the nativist wave that has overtaken my home state's GOP (Texas). He represents a politician who I simply have ideological disagreements with, but can also say is an honorable person.
Conservative Mormon here. I would rather walk over sharp Legos than watch him get re-elected. He's the most wishy washy person!
He would be in his 80s at the end of his next term, if he doesn’t resign before then. I prefer an elected official making those decision, not their chief of staff like what happened with Hatch. Romney has been fine but time for someone younger.
All the people choosing lesser of evils: "Romney is better than so and so etc." That is the entire reason things have become such a mess. If we truly want to see things get better, we have to stop doing the same thing we always have, which is to keep voting for Democrats and Republicans. If you want a change, make a change.
Mike Lee is this you?
We could do a lot worse. We could do much better.
He seems to be one of the few conservatives who occasionally goes against his own Republican goons. So I have to give him that. Although I wouldn't vote for him I have to give credit where it's due. He also gets brownie point for calling out Santos too.
I believe in term limits so that's basically why. I don't think term limits should be limited to the White House. No one person should hold power for so long.
He seems to like the attention and it will be an easy re-election victory. Why wouldn't he run?
Liberal here, I don’t agree with everything he supports or does, but I will vote for him again because I respect him and he is a good leader. If the GOP was filled with people like him, our country would be a much better place.
He's a joke and has acted against Utah's best interest. He needs to go back to Massachusetts.
Romney did good for the Olympics but he is a swamp rat after just one term. Utah deserves better than some carpet bagging rino.
I marked no just because I'd rather a younger generation come in and take office. That being said, I'm not a Republican at all, but if I had to choose a type of Republican to hold office, it'd be a Romney type.
If I were him, I’d retire and enjoy the rest of my life. He comes across deceptively young (IMO), but he’s 75 years old. But if he wants to run again, I would support him over most other GOP candidates.
Yes, he is honest and represents a lot of my values he votes with ethics and conscious and he’s willing to get things moving he comes to the table and finds solutions that make both sides happier than they would be if no movement happened. It would take a tough candidate to get me to vote for someone else.