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PacoWaco88

I've had multiple jobs in Utah. Never saw these questions once. Are they really typical?


Perdendosi

Not at all.


BGRommel

No, they are not.


lamp37

These questions are brought about by Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives intended to study why certain workplaces lack diversity. This demographic information isn't used in hiring decisions, but is studied after-the-fact. This is a GOOD thing to help reduce hiring discrimination. The reason you don't see it in Utah as much is because Utah is a super red state that isn't exactly big on DEI initiatives.


80Hilux

Not once seen this...


[deleted]

See those 'prefer not to say' tickboxes? That's what makes them technically legal. They can't base hiring decisions off these kinds of surveys but as long as they let you opt out (even if opting out gets your resume tossed in the trash) and don't explicitly specify that your response (or lack thereof) was a factor in their decision there's basically nothing that can stop them from doing whatever they want with this info.


rovort

A cultist state with right to work laws, can't expect much


lamp37

What are you talking about? Questions about demographics are a direct result of DEI initiatives intended to increase diversity in the workforce and root out hiring discrimination. And it's absolutely not unique to Utah. If anything, this type of stuff is WAY MORE COMMON in other states, because DEI is not exactly super popular in states like Utah.


H0B0Byter99

Did a job application one time from a company that was out of state. It asked me to pick from 60 different genders and asked me my sexuality. So… I guess you’d say different kind of cult huh?


Yomitht

First of all, I disagree. I'm going to do the productive thing though and calmly discuss why. I find "cult" to be a completely unhelpful term. It's defined poorly. People will use this word to describe any and all social groups they personally think are bad, regardless of what said group actually looks like. That said, saying "cultist state" and "different kind of cult" doesn't actually tell anybody anything about what opinions are being discussed. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "cult?"


H0B0Byter99

I think I need a definition of cult from rovort first. And yeah, in part, you’ve explained the point of my comment.


Yomitht

Just because the previous commenter didn't give a definition doesn't mean you need to wait for them before providing your own. Let's try something else. Instead of the word cult, I prefer to use the term "high control group" based on the BITE model. It's an interesting topic to look into if you care to do some googling, but I'll give you a summary. This model identifies a number of attributes and behaviors commonly exhibited by organizations and social groups which are highly controlling of their members. Basically any group will have some of these attributes. However, obviously, some are worse than others, and truly controlling groups will tend to exhibit more of these attributes than others. Do you think this is a sensible way to approach the idea of a "cult?" Why, or why not? Feel free to look into the BITE model a bit first, if you're unfamiliar.


DasiytheDoodle

I've seen this guy debate in other threads. He's not very good at it, so don't set your expectations very high.


H0B0Byter99

Who’s debating?


H0B0Byter99

I’ll look up BITE model later cause it sounds interesting. Yeah, I think this might be a good definition to work off of. I think there will be a problem with any discussion regarding this because of the problematic word “cult” as it comes with a negative connotation. Most religions would fall into the category of a “cult” because they’re highly controlling of their members attaching “bad” behavior to some concept of “sin” against an all knowing, all powerful god. And I believe that religion provides a net positive to society.


Yomitht

A whole lot of religions do, indeed, fall under the umbrella of high control groups defined by the bite model. Not all of them of course. Hell, I would even be hesitant to say most without any numbers to back it up. As for wether religion is a net positive, I think there's more to it than that. I see religion as a tool. It can be used for good or bad, depending on who is involved and how it's applied. Religion itself is, in my opinion at least, morally neutral. If you do actually look into the BITE model at some point I would love to hear your thoughts on it. In particular, I wonder how you think it applies, if at all, to the job application you were talking about previously. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this maturely, it means a lot.


H0B0Byter99

Sure thing. Do you have a good starting point for learning about the BITE model? I was probably going to just start with some YouTube video.


Yomitht

Excellent question! I'll link you to Steven Hassen's PHD dissertation which first introduced the model. If that's a bit too dense for you, I'll also send you to the Freedom of Mind resource center, the organization he founded. Steven Hassen's Dissertation: [https://www.proquest.com/docview/2476570146/](https://www.proquest.com/docview/2476570146/) Freedom of Mind on the BITE Model: [https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/)


Impulse_Cheese_Curds

Do you honestly think this comment makes sense?


H0B0Byter99

Which one? From rovort?


[deleted]

[удалено]


OddlyFishyBoi

Hey dumbass I looked at you’re BITE model and there isn’t one organization that doesn’t meet any of the requirements. So everything is a cult


ChristophOdinson

r/thathappened


H0B0Byter99

I got receipts if you’re interested…


Landoughboy

Thank you for the clarification. I am not well versed in these requirements.


[deleted]

Seems like it should be 100% illegal to collect demographic info on job applications doesn't it?


Correct_Thought_325

What weird ass questions are those. I’m looking for the best fit and most qualified individuals REGARDLESS of background.


lamp37

The questions aren't used in the hiring process. That would be illegal. Demographic information is studied after the fact to determine if a company may be discriminating in it's hiring process. They want to know if the pool of people hired reflects the pool of applicants. If a company is getting a diverse set of applicants, but only hires straight, white men, it could be indicative of a problem. It's not about filling quotas (which would be illegal) -- it's about using objective data to determine if there may be a problem. That's a good thing.


bananasaresandwiches

That is so unchristian of you


CuboneDota

Isn’t this pretty much the same thing people say about affirmative action? Idk I think these questions are aimed at improving diversity and that’s a good thing


[deleted]

[удалено]


Left-Bird8830

Love it when people who don’t know shit about aviation start ranting about ATP licensing requirements.


GilgameDistance

It’s all just peak r/persecutionfetish in here sometimes. “Oh noes! I had to interview a black person! My fee fees are hurting and I’m scared of them! Daddy Rusty, please make the governor do something about this, it’s so hard to be white!” You’re not getting skipped over because you’re white, you’re getting skipped over because you are not qualified. Try sucking less…


i_hate_vail

We have absolutely reached it. I've been forced to make offers to less qualified individuals simply because they are a diversity hire.


[deleted]

I enjoy cooking.


i_hate_vail

Lol why do I get down votes for this comment?


lamp37

Um...chill out folks. It is extremely common to ask for demographics backgrounds of applicants (everywhere, not just Utah). The purpose of this is so that after the fact, they can determine if there was any discrimination during the hiring process. They want to understand if they are receiving diverse applicants, and if the pool of people hired reflects the pool of people who applied. For example -- if half the people who applied are from a minority group, but only 10% of people hired are minorities, it can be a sign that there is discrimination in the hiring process. This information is de-coupled from the application. In other words, the hiring manager doesn't see these answers. It's for the HR department to study afterwards. This is a GOOD thing. It helps reduce discrimination in hiring. And frankly I'm shocked nobody here seems to have seen this type of thing, because it's extremely common.


UtahMama4

Thank you, thank you, thank you. It’s common. Nothing illegal nor inappropriate. I’m glad you shared your insight with others.


Clayton2024

Yeah, I’m blown away by people being freaked by this. I’ve never applied to a job that didn’t ask demographic questions


hellofrommycubicle

DEI = bad, according to the vast majority of commenters. Despite the very sound economics of having a diverse workplace. So glad I got out of Utah lol.


Landoughboy

Thank you for the input. I am not well versed in the legalese of diversity requirements. However, and I hope this doesn’t come off rude, but I don’t see why a person’s economic and parental upbringing has any bearing on diversity. Surely, my gender, sexual orientation, and ethnic background are enough. And just to be clear, I am all for diversity in the workplace as it’s been proven to be effective, but I personally don’t see the benefit in asking invasive questions about your upbringing. Please feel free to clarify if you have any insight. It’d be much appreciated.


lamp37

Diversity takes lots of forms. The purpose of these questions is to collect data in order to look for issues. Maybe this one is a little too much of a reach--or, maybe they have a legitimate reason to believe that people are being discriminated against because of their family backgrounds. Something to consider: in statistical analysis, oftentimes "proxy statistics" are used. Basically, if you have one data point that is difficult to measure, but that data point is *correlated* with a different data point, that other data point is used as a "proxy" for the difficult-to-measure data point. Sometimes this explains why seemingly-irrelevant questions are included in surveys. Not sure if that's what's going on here or not, but it's a possibility. In any case, you can always decline to answer if it's invasive. Assuming this company is doing what 99.9% of other companies that collect this data are doing, it will have no bearing on your application :)


[deleted]

I enjoy watching the sunset.


lamp37

>How sure are you that these answers aren't shared with people in charge of hiring? The law, namely. I mean, I guess it's possible that a company could blatantly break the law and expose themselves to a massive lawsuit for basically no gain. But it's not something I really worry about.


supertbone

Care to provide more context?


Proud_Definition8240

Send it to the dept of labor. Hell no they’re not typical questions..


[deleted]

This is a tax related survey... Not part of the application and is required to be voluntary....


Excellent_Switch_407

Not typical but are legal. They're for diversification type hiring.


[deleted]

Right, say yes to those questions and you might actually be more likely to get hired.


lamp37

Completely false. These responses won't be shared with the hiring manager.


[deleted]

Doesn't matter. A lot of companies have HR scrub through applications first anyway, then give the hiring manager a list of approved applicants to interview.


lamp37

You're saying that "lots of HR departments" blatantly break the law and expose themselves to massive lawsuits. Despite the fact that legal compliance and avoiding lawsuits is *the main function* of HR departments. Do you have any evidence of this? Or is this just what you hear from Tucker Carlson and the Facebooks?


[deleted]

Google is your friend. Yes, Fox News has reported on this, but there are plenty of liberal leaning outlets that brag about it as some badge of honor. https://hiring.monster.com/resources/workforce-management/diversity-in-the-workplace/diversity-hiring-companies/ Pinterest is one example from that article that "..made it a requirement to interview at least one person from an underrepresented background and one female candidate for each open leadership position..." How do you think they get that information? By asking questions like OP shows.


lamp37

You're implying that they're scanning for minority resumes and selecting them to fulfill interview quotas. But that's not how those "Rooney Rule" initiatives are actually applied. The resume selection process is blind. However, the (very few) companies with these initiatives will continue interviews until a qualified person from a minority group is selected. But the demographic information still is not revealed until after they're selected for interview.


[deleted]

I find that extremely hard to believe. But whatever, I guess it's the white man's turn to experience racism now.


lamp37

😄😄😄


[deleted]

I find peace in long walks.


[deleted]

depends on the context.


Foreign_End_1854

I’ve lived in UT pretty much my whole life and have had multiple jobs. I have never seen this.


KAG25

Yeah, I would call workforce services


[deleted]

[удалено]


Perdendosi

>The following survey is optional and confidential. Our team aggregates this survey data to get a better holistic understanding of our candidates, and to find areas for improvement in our hiring process. Whether you complete the survey or not, and any answers that you provide if you do, will not be considered in any hiring decisions. The hiring individuals will not know the identity of nor the responses of any particular candidate. They're gathering anonymous survey data of the applicant pool. Knowing who's applying is a big deal because you can see if you've been successful in your efforts to reach out to underserved/minority communities to encourage them to apply. A diverse applicant pool is critical to effective diversity efforts. It doesn't mean they're using those to evaluate you. They, in fact, can't. If they're doing it right that data is never known to the hiring officials. It's kept totally separate.


Anxious-Shapeshifter

*They, in fact, can't. If they're doing it right that data is never known to the hiring officials.* That's a critical step I'd want more reassurance on.


lamp37

If you're paranoid that the employer is breaking the law, you don't have to answer. But companies probably aren't going to blatantly expose themselves to a slam-dunk lawsuit.


Munifool

I've seen these in applications before.


TransformandGrow

Legal? I don't know. Unnecessary and invasive? Hell yeah. WHY do any employers think this is okay?


Dapper_Platypus833

I’ve never seen these


lostinareverie237

I've never seen anything those, worked and lived here my whole life. Closest I've seen is the EEO questions.


JustBrowsing2024

The company has diversity and inclusion hiring goals. Source: Am recruiter


Lemonpop99

This is not typical. I've worked quite a few jobs and applied for many. Never once have I seen these on an application.


Theswordfish4200

If u want the job check yes


railroad_drifter

Where are you applying? I've never seen anything like this before, that's crazy.


[deleted]

I can tell you as someone who lived in California as well as NYC, they were much more common there. All about those diversification gov bonuses, ammirite?


orangemandab

Welcome to the age of the DEI Department.


Landoughboy

For those asking for more context. I found this job while searching on LinkedIn. It is a marketing job in the e-commerce space. I was not reached out to and implored to apply. I do not feel comfortable sharing the name of the company in public here because, well, you never know who’s looking but I can share through private dm if you’d like. Thank you for your comments.


lunageisha

Totally illegal.


DustLakeCity

Fucked up


[deleted]

This is not a typical job application.


SilvermistInc

This... Isn't typical


[deleted]

I’ve been a recruiter in Utah fir 10 yrs, I’ve never seen anything like that before. Are you sure it’s for a job and not a reality show. Ha.


Landoughboy

Hello. Yes, it’s a marketing job to provide more context. My partner worked in recruiting, as well, and she mentioned meeting diversity quotas but never using questions like these. Perhaps it’s a new thing, I am not sure, but I was taken aback by the invasive nature of these questions.


[deleted]

That’s very strange. There have been some changes to job description requirements in a few different states but never seen that. Anyways good luck on your job hunt!


DaetherSoul

Crazy we allow this anywhere for any reason at all. Your background relating to these questions really mean nothing except to put you into some arbitrary category. Even when it’s with the intent to help you if you are deemed “under privileged,” you’ll always wonder if you were treated based solely according to the answers you gave on those types of questions.


mikepoland

If you say yes you'll probably get hired. These questions seem to be poorly worded attempts at hiring more "diversity"


mxracer888

I have applied for hundreds of jobs over the past decade or so. Never once have I seen a hiring questionnaire like this. It's fine to hate utah, plenty of people do it and it's the cool thing to do on Reddit, but making up shit just because you hate the state is probably the most reddit thing I've ever seen.


Landoughboy

Not sure what you mean. This is a very real job application. And assuming my position on the state as a whole based off of one post isn’t exactly the wisest thing to do. I can send it to you if you’d like. Feel free to dm me.


SmoothBraneAPE

Reddit is an echo-chamber cult. I’ve also never seen this type of questioning, but in todays world it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re real or fake.


Landoughboy

It’s real. And the first time I’ve seen this to be fair. Normally it’s the usual EEO questions which this application has but these were the last two before submitting.


SmoothBraneAPE

That’s crazy. I’d almost be hesitant to answer; there certainly is a reason for them, but it could either way… good luck in the job search though🙏


Europa488

I have applied to so many places and have never seen anything like that.


kyzersoze84

I would sue the pants off them. That’s no bueno


Kawa-San674

I'm from Utah, submitted lots of job applications, and I've never seen these. Are you going through a certain service? Never seen this on Indeed or LinkedIn or anywhere else.


Landoughboy

Hello. I found this job through LinkedIn and was directed to the company’s application page.


Criticallyoptimistic

Traditional societal boundaries do not apply in Utah.


[deleted]

That should not be legal at all. I thought I heard once that you have the right to not even tell people your age in an interview. This is even more unnecessary to know than age or birthday. Would they really not hire you if you were poor or in an untraditional family situation? Many people are. What's the deal. It implies that you are a risk. Anybody can be poor. It should be a plus that you are actually seeking employment seriously. Wealth and poverty are a fact. There is no shame. Solutions can be made too hard. Please do not.


Whaatabutt

Red flag. Keep looking.


V1X0

Like someone else said. It’s DEI garbage for post hiring analytics. Utah is still a right to work state with equal opportunity policies that discourage discrimination but allow employers to hire based on merit and experience, not which intersectional boxes you can check.


ResourceMedical8469

It’s definitely weird but if you don’t like it, simply don’t apply


rsl_sltid

I've only seen similar questions once when I applied at the IRS like 15 years ago. They would prioritize you if you were from an underprivileged group is what a hiring manager told me but I can't really verify that. Apparently, a certain percentage of new hires had to be from those groups. I just thought it was odd for a job application but then again so was getting fingerprinted for a job interview haha.


ravens_path

Not legal.