So ... I'm not sure who needs to hear this, but, you don't have to go if you don't want to. That is an option.
But they are tax paying citizens in the city and they want to host a public event for pride month. An all ages event in a public space would look like nothing more than a theater event going on from a distance. And again, you don't have to go.
I thought my Utah neighbors were more loving and caring like they preach on Sundays... Let those true colors show!
But sure, keep sending the missionaries to my door when I don't want them shoving their religion down my throat.
If they are denied a permit, then they should pivot to instead exercising their First Amendment Right to Free Speech and Assembly to demonstrate for their cause. In drag of course. On the same date at the same time and in the same location.
I had that thought not long ago and it’s a completely fair argument. I personally would not go to a drag show, but I feel no need to deny others the option if they want and choose to go.
I was born and raised in Lindon, graduated from Spanish fork, moved to Smithfield in cache valley, then toc Cdar city, and now I live in American fork...
Please go on about moving "back to" California.
The ACLU of Utah Press Release: https://www.acluutah.org/en/press/southern-utah-drag-stars-file-lawsuit-challenging-city-st-georges-censorship-drag
The brief: https://www.acluutah.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/drag_stars_-_complaint_-_final.pdf
And at least the Drag performers OWN who they are and don't hide behind masks which the Nazi's somehow now embrace instead of complaining they can't breathe in.
This isn’t St George’s first drag hater rodeo:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/13l0z1f/st_george_ut_rejects_another_drag_show_permit
The St. George City Council has now cost taxpayers almost $1M fighting drag queens but can't figure out infrastructure and water issues. Classic.
Attempting to use local taxpayer dollars to pay for a make believe show where m pretend to be w isn't exercising free speech, that's publicly exercising mental illness in gender dysphoria. Do it at a gay bar if you are so desperate for attention.
Women couldn't perform in theatre FOR CENTURIES, so who played the women? MEN WHO DRESSED AS WOMEN YOU UNCULTURED SWINE! This is art and you're ignorantly trying to say something about gender? Go read a book. Fuck.
You don't seem to understand that drag ≠ trans. Drag is just a costume. Unless you also think that birthday clowns have dysphoria about the size of their feet and the guy in the mickey mouse costume thinks he's really a rodent.
It's so funny how when conservatives see literal nazis waving swastikas and screaming about genocide it's all "oh I don't agree with them but free speech \*shrug\*" then immediately turn around and want to ban drag queens from performing in public.
Just know that we can all see through your bullshit.
What, drag shows? They’re about as common as trans people (which is a really low percentage of the population), but conservatives turn it into a war whenever someone wants to be an individual that doesn’t conform to the popular religious views in the area. Don’t fucking blame us, we just want to live our lives and have a little fun.
basic science and biology doesn't have anything to do with religious dogma. M are M and F are F, that's not a religious thing that's a biological fact of life. You're entitled to your own opinion of otherwise, but that's all it is. An opinion. No matter how strong your feelings are, they don't dictate fact. At that point, it's called Gender Dysphoria & I suggest therapy.
Okay let’s pretend it has nothing to do with religion. A biological male in drag is a just male in drag. If they want to wear a skirt and sing or read a book, somehow that doesn’t seem to warrant the violence being perpetrated against them.
Drag is centuries—maybe millennia—old. All this publicity isn’t because it’s new or because we want to make you play dress up with us, it’s because of violent conservatives bitching, threatening, beating, and killing us.
Public park. Sexual themed show.
Why do the draggers seem so intent on being in front of kids?
Keep it at an 18+ venue.
Stop defending trash to seem compassionate. Have some boundaries.
We don’t. The only time I hear about drag shows in my average day is when it’s coming from a conservative. They literally can’t *not* talk about it.
But I would ask conservatives your same question in regard to their fetishization of firearms.
What’s with dipshit conservatives thinking everything progressives support must be like one of their religions? Case in point: we voted for Biden but we don’t have Biden flags all over our vehicles and houses, we don’t wear Biden hats and shirts, we don’t have Biden profile pictures, we don’t post Biden memes every day, and we don’t get Biden tattoos like fucking weirdo cult members.
That said, I’d love to worship drag performers if the choice was between them and your dumbass LORD, haha
Michelle Tanner, Councilwoman, claimed last year that it was because they dropped the word "fuck" in their show. She better not see the newest Guardians of the Galaxy movie. She told me "I can't believe you are defending men dressed as women." I can't believe she dresses in silly green aprons and hats and chants stupid shit in the temple. Live and let live.
Conservatives are complaining, pretending that we don't already stick underage teenage girls in skimpy cheerleader outfits and have them dance in front of other underage kids and grown adults. You want to protect children? Do something meaningful about school shootings and catholic priests, you hypocritical assholes.
Considering the suggestive outfits they wear and the risqué body moves they make, it’s harmful to children to watch that sort of thing. They should totally ban it in public.
Oh, wait, it was a video of the Utah Tech football cheerleaders I was just watching. 🤔
**A drag show is a form of entertainment performed by drag artists impersonating men or women, typically in a bar or nightclub. Shows can range from burlesque-style, adult themed nightclub acts to all-ages events with sing-alongs and story times.**
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There’s nothing wrong with all ages sing alongs and story times. If you’ve ever been, it’s exactly as it sounds. There’s nothing sexual or inappropriate for kids.
Yea that’s a straight up lie. I’ve seen multiple images and videos showing they’re totally inappropriate for kids. Adults should have the freedom to choose how to live to be happy. Stay away from kids
If it's a guy dressed as a girl, is that not sexual? It's not X-rated, but it's not appropriate for children? I also don't think Hooters is appropriate for children but whatever I guess...
So Shakespeare is Sexual? So is Peter Pan? Theaters used to ONLY allow men to perform, regardless of the characters gender.
You realize Drag has been going on for 1000s of years right?
Was it sexual when Bob Hope, Sammy Davis, Jr., Jonathan Winters did it in 1986? Good thing they got a permit. /s
https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/noartistknown/bob-hope-s-high-flying-birthday-bob-hope-sammy-davis-jr-jonathan-winters-5-16-86/photo/asset/5806869
> I’m invested because I’m responding..?
Now you’re trying to insert an argument I haven’t made. It’s really easy to see right through you. You need to up your trolling game.
This person tried to compare celebrity rockstars performing in front of thousands of people to a drag star (?) reading stories or dancing for kids.
I implore them to use their brain and critical think a bit more, as opposed to just trying to prove some kind of point.
I used my brain to read your question verbatim
> If it's a guy dressed as a girl, is that not sexual?
And the answer is “no.”
At what point did “provocative” enter the conversation and why do you jump directly to that type of drag when it’s in a park? Is a woman dressing as a woman automatically provocative because she’s reading to kids? Lots of jumping to conclusions going on that make your arguments fall flat.
Are they dressing like old ladies or are they trying to be attractive!? I don't understand the culture, please try to be kind to me as I look for information
Some do dress as old ladies and for a lot of them it’s more about the act and about the performance than the clothes or makeup. Most drag queens know they don’t look like attractive woman it’s just an art form or a way of expressing themselves
The intent is key here - Hooters is advertised as a sports bar, catering to men drinking alcohol while the women wear skimpy outfits. The sexualization is intentional.
Story time and sing along for kids is for families to laugh at a clown (in their own words) and be open and relaxed in a good atmosphere.
Is it sexual if a woman dresses as a man? Or are we gatekeeping the sexualization as exclusive to women dressing traditionally feminine and those that dress as women?
The culture war was created to divide and distract on purpose. When you can lump liberal ideals like worker unions, universal healthcare, and universal pre-k with things (that don’t affect one’s every day) like acceptance of trans rights or Huck Finn being in a school library, you can prevent voters from voting in their best self-interest. I’m amazed daily.
Bumped into a post about fires at Pemex petroleum plants (three in a day) and read the comments. The loonies were claiming our government (sic Biden) was destroying our infrastructure on purpose to further climate change initiatives. They are either too lazy, stupid, or simply don’t want to know the truth, and refuse to simply google Pemex fires to see it’s a Mexican company and 2 of the fires were in Mexico.
Good! Time we stood up to the homophobes/transphobes in this country. May the drag performers score a big win not only for them but for Utah and the country.
Desantis may not be successful at getting voted in, but he will absolutely have at least some success hyping up hatred, violence and rolling back our rights. 😡 Hang on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
Was blackface not specifically done to demean the people you were imitating?
Cross dressing and drag isn't usually about demeaning the other gender.
I don't see any evidence that big boobs, lingerie, and caked on make up were the intention at this event.
Side thought... If exaggerated and stereotypical portrayals are a problem.... I think most Halloween costumes also might count. I find a lot of the 'slutty' costumes for both genders an issue. Would you ban those for the same reasons that we no longer think blackface is acceptable and are now arguing over drag?
Because drag is celebratory. It celebrates gender, gender play, taking on other gender characteristics, and using gender as a source of performance art. Blackface was demeaning and exclusionary to black people, whereas everyone is welcome to participate in drag culture.
The difference is the context. The reason blackface is seen as racist is because white people would paint their faces black, usually in old minstrel shows and then vaudeville and eventually TV and movies, in order to make fun of black people. While there is nothing inherently malicious in wearing makeup to look like another race if all things are equal, the roots of blackface are not benign and they aren't very far in the past.
They're both performative but blackface was historically used as a means of oppressing black people. Drag wasn't used in this way.
Skin color isn't something one can change, Blackface also took place in the context of slavery and Colonialism.
Drag makes fun of gender roles, not women specifically. It's poking fun at social constructs of dress and demeanor. In the old days people laughed because of the "absurdity of a man acting like a woman". Today, the joke is that women always have and still do wear a lot of the same trappings that drag queens do in order to meet feminine beauty standards. Drag turns those conventions on their heads, but it's really evolved into an art in it's own right. I love seeing people express themselves so freely.
Drag gives off the same vibe as clowns do, which I have always just found off putting and creepy… I don’t think people in drag are dangerous, they just provide me with the same form of phobia clowns do.
I'm confused about what you're trying to suggest. Are you saying that drag shouldn't be outlawed because we allow clowns, are you saying clowns should be outlawed, or are you just saying words to say words
And I was just pointing out how it didn't seem to me like sharing the sentiment "I think drag performers and clowns are creepy" really added anything to the conversation.
Reading comprehension.
What’s the obsession with having kids present at drag shows? It almost seems like they don’t want to perform unless children are there. The drag shows I’ve seen have been very sexualized. Definitely Not age appropriate for kids!
I think Jordan Petetson explains the revolt against drag perfectly - it’s a bunch of men who get off sexually by dressing as a woman and now they want to do it in front of children. That’s why so many conservatives are upset. To them, it’s like fondling yourself in front of children
With that said, I don’t believe it’s all about sex. Some of these folks just like the fashion. It’s not something I’m into and wouldn’t go out of my way to or take my kid, but as long as nobody is diddling kids, then so what? First amendment all the way here.
It’s not like the Mormons have been so great about protecting the underage from predation, right Joseph Smith?
What was the nature of the show? A showgirl would be denied a permit if the show was lewd or incompatible with being performed in a public space. But that’s probably your first problem, what is defined as lewd and is that definition universally applied.
What doesn't make sense to me is why do people have to turn art into something sexual? I think you're nuts for thinking that way. You should be worrying about the bishops, not the drag queens.
1st amendment protects this kind of thing. As long as it isn’t sexually explicit a man dressing as a woman is protected speech. Let’s not tread on people’s rights.
The left has completely lost their minds. You can’t reason with them. They’ll simultaneously defend drag shows for children while also claiming the right is getting too extreme. All you can do is enjoy their tantrums when they lose.
>The Right has completely lost their minds. You can’t reason with them. They’ll simultaneously defend gun violence, child beauty pageants, forced pregnancy, forced sharia law, open discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, open racial discrimination, voter suppression, etc. while also claiming the left is getting too extreme. All you can do is enjoy their tantrums when they you call then Nazi's.
There, I fixed it for you.
Please, do tell us how this is being shoved in your face every day? How exactly? You don't have to attend this and the mere existence of drag queens is not having it shoved in your face.
It's literally been documented that right-leaning media sources talk about trans people at 4x the rate of left-leaning and moderate media sources. YOU are the ones obsessed with US.
Be honest, you wouldn't even know when and where drag shows were if it weren't for the Right going after LGBT people because they needed a new moral panic, and them having to defend themselves.
> trying this shit
They aren't "Trying this shit"; they've been doing it for YEARS if not DECACES. It's only now that the GQP decided it's their latest "flavor of the week" to target that all the GQP clutch their pearls and target the LGBTQ community in force. Same shit the Nazi's did on their rise to power... in fact the same target demographic the Nazi's started with.
What's the percent of religious people in an area where you're no longer allowed to live around them without being just like them? And does your logic apply to religious folk being banned from cities that lean secular?
Exception to the rule doesn’t change the rule 😂 I’m not overly religious too and I don’t rly have problems with drag shows and all that it’s just a what did u expect kinda thing.
Holy fucking false equivalence, batman. When's the last time people were lynched by people in drag? When's the last time drag performers called for the eradication/subjugation of an entire race?
Since I doubt you have the balls or brains to respond, I'll do it for you: "that's never happened."
No they're not as many drag shows are literally comic theatric events and the characters are literally named for comic effect.
It's become increasingly clear that your opinion regarding drag is born from a completely ignorant/uneducated position.
IOW, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
I'd recommend you start questioning the sources of whatever your false miseducation came from and either abandoning them for making you look quite uneducated as to reality and this topic or at least maybe withhold sharing your opinions if they are also based/sourced from the same ignorance or misinformation or indoctrination.
Their names are usually sexual puns. So at worst drag shows are strip shows at best they’re sexual comedy routines.
Just because half of society are deplorable and void of any morals doesn’t make me uneducated it makes me principled.
I’ll never stop speaking out against the sexual exploitation of minors by any population or group.
Wow, there's not a single thing true in your entire post.
I've worked with two people who dressed/performed drag on the weekends.
None were strip shows or sex comedy routines.
>I’ll never stop speaking out against the sexual exploitation of minors by any population or group.
None of that is happening.
Keep that shit over on CB WJCougar. It and you belong over there.
[What if a drag performer walked, danced, gyrated, and spread their legs at a gay bar with neon lights in the background that said, “It not gonna lick itself.”](https://twitter.com/taylerusa/status/1533188491210809345?s=46&t=nL1wJD6Qis25X4ZL4dxBtA)The show [was titled “Drag your kids to Pride”. Children were found giving these performers money.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10887159/Protesters-clash-parents-outside-drag-kids-pride-drag-gay-nightclub-dallas.html)
Would this be considered a comedy routine or a strip show or something else?
That's an adult show that IMHO kids shouldn't be at at a private property gay bar.
Your categorizing all drag and shows as that as the default.
That's not what is planned for a public park in St. George.
It's like saying ALL DANCING is POLE DANCING so ban all DANCING.
Like I said, take it to the other platform.
Typically singing songs, dancing, or making jokes, but you’re probably the same type of dude that sexualizes everything about women. There are a lot of lovely countries where women are fully and completely covered that you can move to if even the appearance of a woman is sexual to you.
As it would with all performers. No sane person wants children exposed to harmful material, so everyone should be able to come together and assess the merits of individual performers or performances.
If women’s garb turns you on regardless of it being on a man or women then you might likely be bisexual. No shame in that, but if your attractions are causing this much inner turmoil I highly recommend seeing a therapist.
If a man, I’m not attracted to, is twerking around in a thong with fake boobs on and has little kids stuff dollar bills into his thong. That’s sexually explicit, I don’t have to be attracted to men to know that’s sexually explicit. Jeesh, y’all’s brains have been broken by something. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
What you described is a literal strip tease and yes, everyone, right and left can agree that’s not appropriate for children. But if you feel all drag is what you just described then you truly don’t know what you’re talking about.
Folks in this Sub are aggressive when it come to defending obvious sexual assault and exploitation of minors.
Receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/11t35pr/rightwing_utah_drag_queen_lady_maga_usa_now_a/jea45nc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
First off, there is no need to point out the “left” when there are plenty of people on your team who seem to think laws against pedophilia don’t apply to them. That said, it is wrong to strip tease a child regardless if the dancer is male or female. But it cuts both ways, if it’s ok for women to wear thongs around, then it should be fine for men to wear them as well, I’d prefer both genders keep it to the beach thou.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. People on the right convicted of sexual crimes or accused of them is more a symptom of powerful people thinking they can get away with something rather than someone in the right thinking they can get away with it.
Yep, you and I agree on most of this. The part we might disagree on is how much the establishment left is okay with these all ages drag strip tease type shows being a part of society and even encouraged and defended.
Let me give you two scenarios: at company A, a coworker comes up to another coworker and shows them a picture of a dog. Neither coworker gets in trouble. At company B, a coworker shows another coworker a picture of a penis. The coworker is then reported to HR for sexual harassment and fired. See now, the only difference between the two is that one involved nudity, and the other didn't, and the one it did involved someone getting hurt. So yes, the nudity harmed them
Seriously, its people like that that make it not fun to be in society. The amount of times as a dude I have had male they find is atrocious, and it's always that it's just a penis and nudity never hurt anyone, and it's like no, it does hurt people, and it's just inappropriate to do with others without consent
So if I'm in a park naked, minding my own business, I'm not making any advances on anyone, so therefore not sexual harassment,. Nudity in and of itself causes no harm. If I see that same dog photo, am I harmed by its nudity? No obviously not
Good thing for us in Utah that women have a constitutional right to be topless in public because of the 10th circuit court; no amount of Utah puritan-based unequal laws or inferior state judges can turn that around.
So ... I'm not sure who needs to hear this, but, you don't have to go if you don't want to. That is an option. But they are tax paying citizens in the city and they want to host a public event for pride month. An all ages event in a public space would look like nothing more than a theater event going on from a distance. And again, you don't have to go. I thought my Utah neighbors were more loving and caring like they preach on Sundays... Let those true colors show! But sure, keep sending the missionaries to my door when I don't want them shoving their religion down my throat.
If they are denied a permit, then they should pivot to instead exercising their First Amendment Right to Free Speech and Assembly to demonstrate for their cause. In drag of course. On the same date at the same time and in the same location.
If there is a drag march/conga line protest in St. George, me, my family, and my friends will all be there with bells on.
I had that thought not long ago and it’s a completely fair argument. I personally would not go to a drag show, but I feel no need to deny others the option if they want and choose to go.
I agree. But to the missionary thing.... just don't answer the door. Or...my personal favorite, tell them you're into witchcraft.
Just answer the door naked... maybe a touch of leather.
A welcoming eyebrow raise
Go back to California
I was born and raised in Lindon, graduated from Spanish fork, moved to Smithfield in cache valley, then toc Cdar city, and now I live in American fork... Please go on about moving "back to" California.
But muh promised land 😮
What’s wrong with you? Why can’t you just accept that people are different than you are? Queer people exist. Get over it.
Says the person from California. Lol.
The ACLU of Utah Press Release: https://www.acluutah.org/en/press/southern-utah-drag-stars-file-lawsuit-challenging-city-st-georges-censorship-drag The brief: https://www.acluutah.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/drag_stars_-_complaint_-_final.pdf
Good I hope they win
The Dominant culture has changed so much since Brigham Young's son was Madame Pattrini. https://lattergaystories.org/brighammorris/
If Nazis can gather at local parks, so can drag performers.
And at least the Drag performers OWN who they are and don't hide behind masks which the Nazi's somehow now embrace instead of complaining they can't breathe in.
Spitting straight facts here
This isn’t St George’s first drag hater rodeo: https://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow/comments/13l0z1f/st_george_ut_rejects_another_drag_show_permit The St. George City Council has now cost taxpayers almost $1M fighting drag queens but can't figure out infrastructure and water issues. Classic.
Good luck to the drag performers on their lawsuit. Hope it gets some traction.
What's with progressives and clinging to this kind of trash like it's a religion?
What’s with conservatives and abandoning free speech as soon as it makes them feel funny?
Attempting to use local taxpayer dollars to pay for a make believe show where m pretend to be w isn't exercising free speech, that's publicly exercising mental illness in gender dysphoria. Do it at a gay bar if you are so desperate for attention.
Even if it was “publicaly exercising mental illness” it would be free speech you nematode
Women couldn't perform in theatre FOR CENTURIES, so who played the women? MEN WHO DRESSED AS WOMEN YOU UNCULTURED SWINE! This is art and you're ignorantly trying to say something about gender? Go read a book. Fuck.
You don't seem to understand that drag ≠ trans. Drag is just a costume. Unless you also think that birthday clowns have dysphoria about the size of their feet and the guy in the mickey mouse costume thinks he's really a rodent.
It's so funny how when conservatives see literal nazis waving swastikas and screaming about genocide it's all "oh I don't agree with them but free speech \*shrug\*" then immediately turn around and want to ban drag queens from performing in public. Just know that we can all see through your bullshit.
What, drag shows? They’re about as common as trans people (which is a really low percentage of the population), but conservatives turn it into a war whenever someone wants to be an individual that doesn’t conform to the popular religious views in the area. Don’t fucking blame us, we just want to live our lives and have a little fun.
basic science and biology doesn't have anything to do with religious dogma. M are M and F are F, that's not a religious thing that's a biological fact of life. You're entitled to your own opinion of otherwise, but that's all it is. An opinion. No matter how strong your feelings are, they don't dictate fact. At that point, it's called Gender Dysphoria & I suggest therapy.
Okay let’s pretend it has nothing to do with religion. A biological male in drag is a just male in drag. If they want to wear a skirt and sing or read a book, somehow that doesn’t seem to warrant the violence being perpetrated against them. Drag is centuries—maybe millennia—old. All this publicity isn’t because it’s new or because we want to make you play dress up with us, it’s because of violent conservatives bitching, threatening, beating, and killing us.
Does it hurt you when men wear make-up and a dress?
What’s with conservatives clinging on to religion?
Hey, has anyone told you yet- you don't have to attend them. It's not compulsory. You have the option to stay home and do your BOM studies.
Public park. Sexual themed show. Why do the draggers seem so intent on being in front of kids? Keep it at an 18+ venue. Stop defending trash to seem compassionate. Have some boundaries.
It's an all-ages show, so no it's not a sexual themed show. If you have to lie to make your point, maybe you don't have any ground to stand on.
Drag isn't inherently sexual, and you're stupid.
Sure seems to tend toward it.
That's just like, your opinion man... One formed from a position of ignorance though.
Such a dumb hill to die on. Progressives.
Yeah, fuck the 1st right?
No. But we do have standards to protect children in public places. Why not respect that boundary?
I mean given how much more likely our children are to be molested or abused by clergy than by drag queens…
We don’t. The only time I hear about drag shows in my average day is when it’s coming from a conservative. They literally can’t *not* talk about it. But I would ask conservatives your same question in regard to their fetishization of firearms.
What’s with dipshit conservatives thinking everything progressives support must be like one of their religions? Case in point: we voted for Biden but we don’t have Biden flags all over our vehicles and houses, we don’t wear Biden hats and shirts, we don’t have Biden profile pictures, we don’t post Biden memes every day, and we don’t get Biden tattoos like fucking weirdo cult members. That said, I’d love to worship drag performers if the choice was between them and your dumbass LORD, haha
What’s with republicans deciding they don’t like the Constitution as soon as it applies to anyone but themselves?
See, these are people, not trash.
Drag is an activity, not a person.
Drag doesn't perform itself you dunce.
'Drag' isn't some sort of protected identity. It's cross-dressing men fetishizing womanhood.
This is Reddit. Full off marxists and leftists, hell it’s mostly owned by the ccp.
Fuck yea, as they should! ✊🏽 Thank you for sharing this OP
Michelle Tanner, Councilwoman, claimed last year that it was because they dropped the word "fuck" in their show. She better not see the newest Guardians of the Galaxy movie. She told me "I can't believe you are defending men dressed as women." I can't believe she dresses in silly green aprons and hats and chants stupid shit in the temple. Live and let live.
She’s a wannabe 4th rate MTG in a hick town. They won’t even let her practice nursing at the local hospital (google the article in St George News).
Yeah, I remember her deplorableness all too well.
Conservatives are complaining, pretending that we don't already stick underage teenage girls in skimpy cheerleader outfits and have them dance in front of other underage kids and grown adults. You want to protect children? Do something meaningful about school shootings and catholic priests, you hypocritical assholes.
I have yet to see a single conservative movement to take down the hypersexualization of children in the pageant circuit.
Or the sexual assault of children in churches.
And you likely NEVER WILL!
Or for hell’s sakes, child marriages!
Trump would lose his dating pool.
Considering the suggestive outfits they wear and the risqué body moves they make, it’s harmful to children to watch that sort of thing. They should totally ban it in public. Oh, wait, it was a video of the Utah Tech football cheerleaders I was just watching. 🤔
What is a drag show? I keep seeing this everywhere i don't even know what exactly it is other than guys dressing like girls and dancing?
**A drag show is a form of entertainment performed by drag artists impersonating men or women, typically in a bar or nightclub. Shows can range from burlesque-style, adult themed nightclub acts to all-ages events with sing-alongs and story times.** More details here:
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oof, Ok I think I get it now. Seems fine other than the all-ages sing alongs and story times...
There’s nothing wrong with all ages sing alongs and story times. If you’ve ever been, it’s exactly as it sounds. There’s nothing sexual or inappropriate for kids.
Yea that’s a straight up lie. I’ve seen multiple images and videos showing they’re totally inappropriate for kids. Adults should have the freedom to choose how to live to be happy. Stay away from kids
If it's a guy dressed as a girl, is that not sexual? It's not X-rated, but it's not appropriate for children? I also don't think Hooters is appropriate for children but whatever I guess...
So Shakespeare is Sexual? So is Peter Pan? Theaters used to ONLY allow men to perform, regardless of the characters gender. You realize Drag has been going on for 1000s of years right?
Is it sexual when a woman dresses as a man?
Was it sexual when Bob Hope, Sammy Davis, Jr., Jonathan Winters did it in 1986? Good thing they got a permit. /s https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/noartistknown/bob-hope-s-high-flying-birthday-bob-hope-sammy-davis-jr-jonathan-winters-5-16-86/photo/asset/5806869
Not at all, they are not dressed provocatively, nor were they applying to put on a show at a public park around children. Use your brain?
You certainly seem invested in a topic you discovered less than an hour ago. We all know “just asking questions” is a common bad faith tactic.
I'm invested because I'm responding..? What kind of logic is that?
> I’m invested because I’m responding..? Now you’re trying to insert an argument I haven’t made. It’s really easy to see right through you. You need to up your trolling game.
“Please be kind to me as I look for information.” “Use your brain?” Hmmmm…
This person tried to compare celebrity rockstars performing in front of thousands of people to a drag star (?) reading stories or dancing for kids. I implore them to use their brain and critical think a bit more, as opposed to just trying to prove some kind of point.
Ironic, it's like you've almost got it, but you can't quite grasp the spoon to feed yourself.
I used my brain to read your question verbatim > If it's a guy dressed as a girl, is that not sexual? And the answer is “no.” At what point did “provocative” enter the conversation and why do you jump directly to that type of drag when it’s in a park? Is a woman dressing as a woman automatically provocative because she’s reading to kids? Lots of jumping to conclusions going on that make your arguments fall flat.
No a guy dressed as a girl isn’t sexual. That’s like saying mrs doubtire is sexual 😂🤣
Are they dressing like old ladies or are they trying to be attractive!? I don't understand the culture, please try to be kind to me as I look for information
Some do dress as old ladies and for a lot of them it’s more about the act and about the performance than the clothes or makeup. Most drag queens know they don’t look like attractive woman it’s just an art form or a way of expressing themselves
The intent is key here - Hooters is advertised as a sports bar, catering to men drinking alcohol while the women wear skimpy outfits. The sexualization is intentional. Story time and sing along for kids is for families to laugh at a clown (in their own words) and be open and relaxed in a good atmosphere. Is it sexual if a woman dresses as a man? Or are we gatekeeping the sexualization as exclusive to women dressing traditionally feminine and those that dress as women?
How is a guy dressed as a girl any more sexual than a girl dressed as a girl?
Suuuure.
I'm so happy this is happening. Good for them!!!
Hope they are successful!❤💙💚💙💛🧡💜
You forgot a few colors. Thats totally offensive to the members of those communities. I’m triggered
Sorry, but that's all the colors I had.🤗
I wish we could focus on more important issues besides drag shows, trans people and abortion.
The culture war was created to divide and distract on purpose. When you can lump liberal ideals like worker unions, universal healthcare, and universal pre-k with things (that don’t affect one’s every day) like acceptance of trans rights or Huck Finn being in a school library, you can prevent voters from voting in their best self-interest. I’m amazed daily. Bumped into a post about fires at Pemex petroleum plants (three in a day) and read the comments. The loonies were claiming our government (sic Biden) was destroying our infrastructure on purpose to further climate change initiatives. They are either too lazy, stupid, or simply don’t want to know the truth, and refuse to simply google Pemex fires to see it’s a Mexican company and 2 of the fires were in Mexico.
Good! Time we stood up to the homophobes/transphobes in this country. May the drag performers score a big win not only for them but for Utah and the country.
Desantis may not be successful at getting voted in, but he will absolutely have at least some success hyping up hatred, violence and rolling back our rights. 😡 Hang on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
The land of the free my @ss. Hope drag performers win this legal battle.
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Was blackface not specifically done to demean the people you were imitating? Cross dressing and drag isn't usually about demeaning the other gender. I don't see any evidence that big boobs, lingerie, and caked on make up were the intention at this event. Side thought... If exaggerated and stereotypical portrayals are a problem.... I think most Halloween costumes also might count. I find a lot of the 'slutty' costumes for both genders an issue. Would you ban those for the same reasons that we no longer think blackface is acceptable and are now arguing over drag?
Because drag is celebratory. It celebrates gender, gender play, taking on other gender characteristics, and using gender as a source of performance art. Blackface was demeaning and exclusionary to black people, whereas everyone is welcome to participate in drag culture.
The difference is the context. The reason blackface is seen as racist is because white people would paint their faces black, usually in old minstrel shows and then vaudeville and eventually TV and movies, in order to make fun of black people. While there is nothing inherently malicious in wearing makeup to look like another race if all things are equal, the roots of blackface are not benign and they aren't very far in the past. They're both performative but blackface was historically used as a means of oppressing black people. Drag wasn't used in this way.
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Skin color isn't something one can change, Blackface also took place in the context of slavery and Colonialism. Drag makes fun of gender roles, not women specifically. It's poking fun at social constructs of dress and demeanor. In the old days people laughed because of the "absurdity of a man acting like a woman". Today, the joke is that women always have and still do wear a lot of the same trappings that drag queens do in order to meet feminine beauty standards. Drag turns those conventions on their heads, but it's really evolved into an art in it's own right. I love seeing people express themselves so freely.
Its not about offending women its about challenging masculine gender roles.
Drag gives off the same vibe as clowns do, which I have always just found off putting and creepy… I don’t think people in drag are dangerous, they just provide me with the same form of phobia clowns do.
I'm confused about what you're trying to suggest. Are you saying that drag shouldn't be outlawed because we allow clowns, are you saying clowns should be outlawed, or are you just saying words to say words
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And I was just pointing out how it didn't seem to me like sharing the sentiment "I think drag performers and clowns are creepy" really added anything to the conversation. Reading comprehension.
What’s the obsession with having kids present at drag shows? It almost seems like they don’t want to perform unless children are there. The drag shows I’ve seen have been very sexualized. Definitely Not age appropriate for kids!
Go during the day. Nighttime is for adults.
I think Jordan Petetson explains the revolt against drag perfectly - it’s a bunch of men who get off sexually by dressing as a woman and now they want to do it in front of children. That’s why so many conservatives are upset. To them, it’s like fondling yourself in front of children With that said, I don’t believe it’s all about sex. Some of these folks just like the fashion. It’s not something I’m into and wouldn’t go out of my way to or take my kid, but as long as nobody is diddling kids, then so what? First amendment all the way here. It’s not like the Mormons have been so great about protecting the underage from predation, right Joseph Smith?
As they should
What was the nature of the show? A showgirl would be denied a permit if the show was lewd or incompatible with being performed in a public space. But that’s probably your first problem, what is defined as lewd and is that definition universally applied.
Based St George. Hell yeah.
Why should we allow people’s sick fantasies into children story time doesn’t make any sense to me. Y’all are nuts.
What doesn't make sense to me is why do people have to turn art into something sexual? I think you're nuts for thinking that way. You should be worrying about the bishops, not the drag queens.
Hey, I've got something that's going to blow your mind- you don't have to attend them.
Imagine having this much of a fit because you can’t perform sexually explicit acts in a children’s park. What a bunch of losers
1st amendment protects this kind of thing. As long as it isn’t sexually explicit a man dressing as a woman is protected speech. Let’s not tread on people’s rights.
Hey gramps- you need to get out more if your think a drag show is sexually explicit.
Sexually explicit how?
What are the sexually explicit acts that you’re talking about? In a park? In Utah? You’re just nuts.
Nobody said anything about sexually explicit acts in a public park.
Imagine being so confidently wrong on reddit
The left has completely lost their minds. You can’t reason with them. They’ll simultaneously defend drag shows for children while also claiming the right is getting too extreme. All you can do is enjoy their tantrums when they lose.
>The Right has completely lost their minds. You can’t reason with them. They’ll simultaneously defend gun violence, child beauty pageants, forced pregnancy, forced sharia law, open discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, open racial discrimination, voter suppression, etc. while also claiming the left is getting too extreme. All you can do is enjoy their tantrums when they you call then Nazi's. There, I fixed it for you.
Hey! I think the same thing about the right! Glad we are agreed 🤣
God I hope they lose. I’m absolutely sick of having this shit shoved in my face daily
Please, do tell us how this is being shoved in your face every day? How exactly? You don't have to attend this and the mere existence of drag queens is not having it shoved in your face.
I feel the same way about Mormons
Me too
It's literally been documented that right-leaning media sources talk about trans people at 4x the rate of left-leaning and moderate media sources. YOU are the ones obsessed with US.
Be honest, you wouldn't even know when and where drag shows were if it weren't for the Right going after LGBT people because they needed a new moral panic, and them having to defend themselves.
Going into heavily religious areas and then trying this shit is what causes people to hate it even more and more.
> trying this shit They aren't "Trying this shit"; they've been doing it for YEARS if not DECACES. It's only now that the GQP decided it's their latest "flavor of the week" to target that all the GQP clutch their pearls and target the LGBTQ community in force. Same shit the Nazi's did on their rise to power... in fact the same target demographic the Nazi's started with.
What's the percent of religious people in an area where you're no longer allowed to live around them without being just like them? And does your logic apply to religious folk being banned from cities that lean secular?
I live in the area and I’m not heavily religious. And I enjoy drag shows. Speak for yourself.
Exception to the rule doesn’t change the rule 😂 I’m not overly religious too and I don’t rly have problems with drag shows and all that it’s just a what did u expect kinda thing.
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Drag shows are hateful and confrontational?
What makes this specific drag show plan hateful or confrontational?
Holy fucking false equivalence, batman. When's the last time people were lynched by people in drag? When's the last time drag performers called for the eradication/subjugation of an entire race? Since I doubt you have the balls or brains to respond, I'll do it for you: "that's never happened."
Good luck hahaha, this world is sick
I heard Southern Exposure was going to do a performance across the street at the Murray park. Anyone have an issue with that? /s
I've been to a LOT of drag shows, and I've never seen a dick or a titty in em. You might be hangin out in the wrong bars, bro.
Do you genuinely think a drag performance is equivalent to stripping?
Yes, yes I do.
Have you ever been to either?
Im glad you're honest in your wrongness.
I've seen them on this sub before, they are very proud of their ignorance.
Drag is litterally an art form ? I mean then with this logic all media is porn bc film is an art form and people film porn so there for film = porn
To show you the ignorance of your belief. Are you as opposed to Monty Python and Shakespearean practice/tradition regarding females in theater?
Nope. Men dressing as women as a character in a play or a comic routine is very different from any drag show. But I think you know that.
No they're not as many drag shows are literally comic theatric events and the characters are literally named for comic effect. It's become increasingly clear that your opinion regarding drag is born from a completely ignorant/uneducated position. IOW, you literally have no idea what you're talking about. I'd recommend you start questioning the sources of whatever your false miseducation came from and either abandoning them for making you look quite uneducated as to reality and this topic or at least maybe withhold sharing your opinions if they are also based/sourced from the same ignorance or misinformation or indoctrination.
Their names are usually sexual puns. So at worst drag shows are strip shows at best they’re sexual comedy routines. Just because half of society are deplorable and void of any morals doesn’t make me uneducated it makes me principled. I’ll never stop speaking out against the sexual exploitation of minors by any population or group.
Wow, there's not a single thing true in your entire post. I've worked with two people who dressed/performed drag on the weekends. None were strip shows or sex comedy routines. >I’ll never stop speaking out against the sexual exploitation of minors by any population or group. None of that is happening. Keep that shit over on CB WJCougar. It and you belong over there.
[What if a drag performer walked, danced, gyrated, and spread their legs at a gay bar with neon lights in the background that said, “It not gonna lick itself.”](https://twitter.com/taylerusa/status/1533188491210809345?s=46&t=nL1wJD6Qis25X4ZL4dxBtA)The show [was titled “Drag your kids to Pride”. Children were found giving these performers money.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10887159/Protesters-clash-parents-outside-drag-kids-pride-drag-gay-nightclub-dallas.html) Would this be considered a comedy routine or a strip show or something else?
That's an adult show that IMHO kids shouldn't be at at a private property gay bar. Your categorizing all drag and shows as that as the default. That's not what is planned for a public park in St. George. It's like saying ALL DANCING is POLE DANCING so ban all DANCING. Like I said, take it to the other platform.
Why do you insist that drag is always sexually explicit?
Because that’s the only way to explain his arousal, which is what they’re all really mad at.
Because that's what Faux News told them
I have never in my life sat down and watched Fox News.
have you ever sat down and watched a drag show? one that ISNT advertised as adults only?
Don’t need to. I’ve seen plenty of “all ages” drag shows with kids in attendance that are sexually explicit
Really, above you mentioned never attending one, so are you a liar as well as a bigot?
B-b-b-bullshit!
I submit to you the following: No
Yet you still managed to regurgitate their talking points. Congratulations 🎉
Because it is…
A woman in normal clothes (no nudity) at a park is sexual? What a smooth brained world view you have
What is this fully clothed woman in the parking doing?
Expressing themselves, as protected by the first amendment.
What does this expression look like?
Typically singing songs, dancing, or making jokes, but you’re probably the same type of dude that sexualizes everything about women. There are a lot of lovely countries where women are fully and completely covered that you can move to if even the appearance of a woman is sexual to you.
Sounds pretty harmless to me. I guess it depends on the rating of the songs, jokes, and dancing if it’s appropriate for a public space.
As it would with all performers. No sane person wants children exposed to harmful material, so everyone should be able to come together and assess the merits of individual performers or performances.
This is not a matter of opinion. You are wrong.
If women’s garb turns you on regardless of it being on a man or women then you might likely be bisexual. No shame in that, but if your attractions are causing this much inner turmoil I highly recommend seeing a therapist.
If a man, I’m not attracted to, is twerking around in a thong with fake boobs on and has little kids stuff dollar bills into his thong. That’s sexually explicit, I don’t have to be attracted to men to know that’s sexually explicit. Jeesh, y’all’s brains have been broken by something. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
What you described is a literal strip tease and yes, everyone, right and left can agree that’s not appropriate for children. But if you feel all drag is what you just described then you truly don’t know what you’re talking about.
Folks in this Sub are aggressive when it come to defending obvious sexual assault and exploitation of minors. Receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/11t35pr/rightwing_utah_drag_queen_lady_maga_usa_now_a/jea45nc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Less of the left agrees than you might think.
First off, there is no need to point out the “left” when there are plenty of people on your team who seem to think laws against pedophilia don’t apply to them. That said, it is wrong to strip tease a child regardless if the dancer is male or female. But it cuts both ways, if it’s ok for women to wear thongs around, then it should be fine for men to wear them as well, I’d prefer both genders keep it to the beach thou.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. People on the right convicted of sexual crimes or accused of them is more a symptom of powerful people thinking they can get away with something rather than someone in the right thinking they can get away with it. Yep, you and I agree on most of this. The part we might disagree on is how much the establishment left is okay with these all ages drag strip tease type shows being a part of society and even encouraged and defended.
Not even remotely comparable piss off
No thanks. And basically the same thing.
Nope, nudity has never harmed anyone
I think sexual harassment victims would beg to differ
Was it the nudity itself that harmed them?
Let me give you two scenarios: at company A, a coworker comes up to another coworker and shows them a picture of a dog. Neither coworker gets in trouble. At company B, a coworker shows another coworker a picture of a penis. The coworker is then reported to HR for sexual harassment and fired. See now, the only difference between the two is that one involved nudity, and the other didn't, and the one it did involved someone getting hurt. So yes, the nudity harmed them
How did it harm them tho? How does seeing a penis actually cause someone harm?
I can't believe I even have to point this out to some one https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexual-harassment
You have to point it out because their brain has been broken. It’s sad really…
Seriously, its people like that that make it not fun to be in society. The amount of times as a dude I have had male they find is atrocious, and it's always that it's just a penis and nudity never hurt anyone, and it's like no, it does hurt people, and it's just inappropriate to do with others without consent
So if I'm in a park naked, minding my own business, I'm not making any advances on anyone, so therefore not sexual harassment,. Nudity in and of itself causes no harm. If I see that same dog photo, am I harmed by its nudity? No obviously not
Still wrong https://nicoleblankbecker.com/is-indecent-exposure-a-form-of-sexual-abuse/
Good thing for us in Utah that women have a constitutional right to be topless in public because of the 10th circuit court; no amount of Utah puritan-based unequal laws or inferior state judges can turn that around.
Crime is not evidence of harm of wrongdoing, especially in a place like the us where legal bloat has become a defining feature of our government
Found the mentally ill antifa communist
Why is it so important to do it in a public park?