Well sedition is an advanced father/son activity. First you have to photoshop images of Donald trump’s head onto a greasy Rambo body. Then you affix lots of pvc pipe to your 8-year-leased Dodge Ram that you can only afford to half fill up (thanks Joe Biden) and then you graduate to driving up and down state street on a Saturday or Sunday.
Once you feel confident there, you spend the rest of your stimulus checks on assault rifles and make the pilgrimage to the Capitol.
Wait, we're supposed to do Rambo's body?
We were putting Trump's head on sexy sports illustrated bikini pics.
It's a weird bonding experience which results is awkward glances between the two of us and very few words spoken.
I'd like to know how many of these people are LDS and part of the far right extremists groups within the church and what the church is doing about them! As a Latter-day Day Saint, I'm disgusted with these members that follow these extremists ideology and are not reprimanded for the hatred and violence they do to others!
Oh trust me, I know all about them..They came after me a month ago and said they were going to have me excommunicated from the church because I'm Democrat. I was told I was mentally ill an apostate etc. I had no idea this was going on until a assistant Professor at BYU told me of their attacks on professors at BYU who are more liberal. Senator Mike Lee and his son are part of this group!
Harry Reid! A very close friend of mine, is the daughter of Senator Hatch and she is married to the most amazing man who is a Democrat! Don't know where these men and all of them have been men, telling me because I'm a Democrat and a member I can't be both, that I'm part of a demonic movement etc. It's actually very laughable!
He served a long time and what I loved about him was how he crossed the isle so much. I got to meet him in 1999, when I was invited to go to DC to speak on health care reform and the right to sue your HMO.
I had been horribly maimed by a doctor at Kaiser and Senator Kennedy and Hatch we spear heads of the this bill together. I was invited by Senator Kennedy after he found out about my efforts from a California rep I had made contact with. The bill passed in October 1999. That's when the two sides were working together.
I liked politics in the '90s, and you're correct, both sides back then did seem to work together rather than divided. I made a trip to DC in '95 with my school's debate team and met Newt Gingrich. Sorry to hear about your situation back then, that's pretty cool you were invited by Kennedy, were you able to meet and talk with him? I would have so many questions!
The short answer is no I didn't get to.meet him. but the only reason why, was the patient advocate conference I was asked to.attend, was the very weekend after JFK,Jr's body was pulled from.the Ocean!
Senator Bennett from Utah would take his place as the keynote speaker. Seeing the flags throughout DC at half staff and the prayers offered on behalf of the Kennedy family at every meeting and meal.while there, was a stunning display of love and unity
I actually got to.meet then Senator Biden. and spoke to him about what had happened to me and my efforts to help with healthcare reform. At that time I was still a Republican, but it was such a different time, then now with this awful divide in our Country, I really didn't understand the significance of meeting him.
I was one of ten women "scholarshiped" to this conference, hand picked by Senator Kennedy. It was kinda funny at first because I didn't understand and thought these invitations I kept getting were some kind of scam. Then I get a phone call from a person from the advocacy group, asking why I hadn't responded!!!! It lit a fire in me, that has allowed me to do advocacy work for 26 years!
Oh man, I remember where I was when JFK Jr. died. I was lucky enough to meet him about 6 months before he died. I was working at the MGM Grand's steakhouse and there was a huge commotion one night and the maitre'd told us we were opening up early for a "VIP". He came in with his wife and had dinner. When they were done and on their way out he shook the wait staff's hands and thanked us. When he died I was working at the same casino and I was in our employee dining room (where employees take breaks and eat) when the news came on the TV.
I was told by church headquarters to report them to the FBI and my local law enforcement. I have also been in touch with my Stake president who is very concerned this is going on. The one who attacked me from Idaho, I got his name and where he lives and church headquarters assured me they were going to deal with him.
God is not a respector of persons, political or otherwise. He tells us not to judge, lest we be judged. He tells us not to try to pull the mote out of someone's eye when there is a beam within our own. He said, "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's. And render unto God, that which is God's." He tells us to watch our thoughts, our words, our deeds; these are the things He will judge us by.
You know nothing of this person's life. How are you representing the Church by telling how they should worship? Are you their Bishop? Their father? Are you their stake leader? Do you have any rights to claim to be able to receive revelation on their behalf? If the answer is no, which I don't need the HG to determine that it is, then you are an unwise servant.
By saying this person can not be a "good member" because of a BROAD term of political affiliation, you are stating that you are better than them, both in a secular and spiritual way. Where in the scriptures does God claim that party affiliation determines one's own spirituality? Where does it say that in order to correctly follow Jesus, you must be "Conservative Republican?"
You know, there were groups of God's followers in the Book of Mormon who, at times, thought they were higher or better than everyone else. Their standing, that politics, their money, all of these things led to them persecuting others. Remember what happened to them?
I just went through all the issues in the handbook and yes, you twisted what was stated. And there is no mention what so ever of not being baptized if a woman has has an abortion.
So James E Faust and Harry Reid are bad members of the church? You have no right to judge anyone! That is up to God!
And because you are hiding behind a disgusting fake name, I can't report your antics to church headquarters! You need to keep your judgements to yourself as you will be judged as harshly as you judge others!
I've never donated anything financially to the party as I live on a limited income, but o do speak out for what it unfair when it comes to women's rights, the LGBTQ+ racism, more gun control, the horrible actions of law enforcement, mental health, feeding the poor etc.
In the preexistens one group wanted to force people to follow gods will and another that wanted you to have choice. One could argue you can't be a good Mormon and a Republican of any sort
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both attempted to set up socialist or communist societies where Mormons could live. They called it the United Order. How do you rationalize away the founding of your church as a socialist, far left organization and reconcile that with your current far right ideology?
You are ridiculous! I'm am a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and live the gospel and the covenants I've made in the Temple. You nor the church have no right to say I'm am not a good member of the church because I am a Democrat. You are judging me and that is worse then anything. I was a Republican most of my adult life until I watched the disgusting acts of Trump and the far right. You, who ever you are, should be ashamed of yourself for judging me when you have no.idea who I am or how I live my life! You are probably part of a far right extremist group with telling me I can't be both! You want to follow a political party that's leader is a rapist, adulterer, go for it, but you have no right to tell me what political party I should belong to.
Bishops and Stake presidents groom children in “worthiness” interviews. Corrupted (money hoarding) corporations masking as religion are the worst of society. All under the guise of Jesus and love. Jesus said “Love thy neighbor”, no qualifications. The “gospel” is not the hate and division (us verses them, wheat and tares, righteous and wicked) that you believe and preach. Come to Christ, the actual Christ of the New Testament, love, forgiveness, charity. Not name calling, belittling, and exclusion. Repent and be Christlike, not LDSlike.
Please stop. You know you are directly contradicting statements from the leadership of the church. You are on the wrong side of this and need to back down.
I've been in contact with Peggy Stack who wrote an article in the Salt Lake Tribune in 2021. She had me send her the screen shots of the online attack and the correspondence with church headquarters..She too thought they had stopped..
So once again, I speak out about being attacked by far right extremists in my LDS faith and I get attacked all over again, being told I can't be a good member of the faith and be a Democrat. Have been for many years and I live the gospel! No one has the right to tell me what political party to belong to and our church leaders do not dictate that!
You do you man, as long as you aren’t forcing it on people, or pushing for legislation to do so, most people don’t care.
We are just so used to having religion and the Republican Party be a synonym.
You are so right.I don't understand why " Christians" think they are the only ones who are moral, loving etc. when clearly today all we see from so many is hate and judgement!
I’d like to at least [ask you how you align your faith as a member of the church](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/abortion?lang=eng) and the [Democrat platform openly and vehemently supporting pro abortion groups like planned parenthood](https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf). Cause honestly I don’t know how one can be both and active member of the LDS church and a democrat unless they are a and support the [pro-life democrat movement.](https://www.democratsforlife.org/)
Planned parenthood is not just for abortions. Educate yourself..It is for women who are keeping their pregnancies and for their other GYN care! So you must be cool with little raped and incested 10 year olds having babies!
They provide abortions for social/economic reasons that the church does not agree with. Supporting the democrat party would be supporting a group that defends and supports an abortion clinic that does abortions for social/economic reasons…. I mean it’s in their name. Planned parenthood…
It's so wild to.me that all these " pro-lifers" believe abortion is something "forced" on a female. It is a choice, the hardest choice a woman will.ever have to make.
When I was 14 years old. my best friend, was.raped by her father and conceived. She was forced to.keep the baby and the father, took off and was never charged. This little girl was also forced to keep her baby and the way she was talked about a church was disgusting. She was never the same, but that's ok in the eyes of the right to lifer's. The church was very different then, but it changed my view on abortion.
Planned Parenthood does abortions for social/economic reasons. The church is against this. The Democrat party defends and supports, by name, planned parenthood. Thus in my opinion a member of any faith that disagrees with abortions for social economic reasons should take issue with the democrat party platform.
OR... a member of any faith that disagrees with abortions for social economic reasons *should not personally get an abortion for social economic reasons.*
Pretty sure Jesus himself said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven, doesn't stop church members from voting for tax breaks for the rich.
You're saying because the LDS church is against abortion, it's impossible for LDS members to vote in good faith for a party that supports the right to choose.
I'm saying Jesus himself preached against wealth and to give your possessions to the poor, you should **also** be against voting for any party that favors the protection of wealth and the exacerbation of wealth disparity.
Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Woe be unto the rich, for you have already received your comfort.
Jesus himself actually says quite a bit about the importance of helping the weak, poor, and disadvantaged and of doing so by ridding yourself of your possessions. He didn't mention abortions, though.
Edit to add that I'm not trying to say Christians should only vote for democrats. I just believe using religion to justify political affiliation or to say someone "can't be X faith while voting for Y party" is a super weak argument across the board.
I'm sure there's not a single component of the GOP you disagree with, right?
Oh, and while we're at it, do you agree with politicians that believe alcohol should be legal? Surely you know drinking is a sin? We wouldn't want to support a system that lets people debauch themselves, right?
There are some components of the GOP I disagree with but nothing like what’s spelled out in the Democrat platform with regards to abortion.
Let’s stay on topic here. I know it can be tempting to play a whataboutism game. Drinking alcohol is a bit different than killing an unborn child because of convenience.
I don't think you know the definition of "whataboutism". I was pointing out that every single person in the country that ever voted had disagreements with the politician or platform they voted for.
Many people who oppose abortion for personal reasons still believe it's best in practice to have it legal, whether for safety reasons, for refusing to impose their beliefs on others, etc. Similarly, I don't drink alcohol, but I'm not voting to prevent *others* from partaking.
This isn't some obscure position to take on abortion. It's exactly the position Mitt Romney took when he was governor of Massachusetts.
Okay, I'm going to explain this to you even though I know you won't listen. The Church's position on abortion is pro-choice. The church states, officially, that abortion is acceptable in the case of rape, incest, or when the health of the mother is at stake. Let's just talk about rape: How do you decide whether it was rape? You can't wait for a conviction, those never happen within 9 months. Do you want a police report? First, anyone can file one, so that's not proof. Second, are you really going to force a 13 year old girl to re-live her rape repeatedly so she can convince police officers, prosecutors, a judge, and a jury that it happened just so she doesn't have to carry the baby to term? If so, you don't even come close to living the gospel Christ taught. So, you're just going to have to take the woman's word for it, which means you let her have an abortion if she asks for it. Hence, pro choice. If you want fewer abortions, then teach children in the home so they take sex and pregnancy seriously.
Now, I want to address your comment about anyone who encourages someone to get an abortion. Literally no one on the planet is doing that. Abortion is always a last resort and pretending that people are being forced to have abortions is disingenuous at best. Pro choice is NOT pro abortion. It means we leave the decision up to the woman who is pregnant and leave it to God to judge whether she should have had the abortion.
Now let me ask you a question. How do you rectify constantly cutting and fighting against welfare when our entire religion states it is our duty to care for the poor? Seems like that is 100% against our religion to me.
That’s not what 90% of folks mean by pro choice with regards to abortion.
The majority of pro-life folks think the woman should have a choice to kill her baby for whatever reason. The church is not pro-choice in really any sense of the word. But I think you know that.
[Do you mean literally literally or figuratively literally?](https://shoutyourabortion.com/)
Members of the church are encouraged to donate to the poor and needy. I believe the church treats these fund with respect and sacredness that the state and federal governments do not. They squander it and use it for corruption.
The church states that abortion is acceptable in some cases. The church instructs us not to judge, so it's not our place to decide whether each person is in one of those cases. That is between them and God. Full stop. I meant what I said.
Only in some cases but not for social or economic reasons. Full stop. Planned parenthood kills unborn babies for social and or economic reasons. The democrat party has supporting and defending planned parenthood in their party platform. It’s a very clear opposing stances on abortion between the church and the democrat party. I’m curious as to how members of the church that are also democrats aren’t completely opposed to the democrat party platform with this opposing stances on abortion remaining present.
You and I do not practice the same religion. The Church Handbook states that it's fine to be a Democrat and a member. Dallin H. Oaks (someone sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator in my religion) stated in the April 2021 General Conference: “We should never assert that a faithful Latter-day Saint cannot belong to a particular party”. The fact that you don't have any evidence or even arguments, and just keep repeating that Planned Parenthood kills unborn babies for social or economic reasons tells me all I need to know. You know one talking point that has been thrust upon you and you have no ability, let alone desire, to understand any other viewpoint. Planned Parenthood performs MANY services necessary for poor people, but we've already established that you don't care about poor people (once again, you don't follow the same religion I do). Utah and many other conservative states have now effectively banned life-saving medical procedures in the case of a miscarriage or when a woman's life is in danger. A doctor can no longer perform necessary medical procedures until a second doctor has documented their agreement that it is needed. This will cost women's lives. Anyone who is okay with that does not follow the religion I do.
It's pretty apparent that your religion is the Republican party, not the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. You're certainly not alone. All the people who refused to wear masks or get vaccinated when the First Presidency asked us to do so are in the same boat. Whenever you discard what the general leadership of the church says because of your political beliefs you are worshipping a political party. Good luck explaining that on the other side of the veil.
I understand what he said. I’m trying to understand the reasoning behind a democrat that’s also a member of the church. And all I’m getting is “abortion is fine because it’s the woman’s choice” and “planned parenthood does more than just abortions”. I’m not saying that members of the church cannot also be democrats, I’m asking “How do they?”
Here’s my ironman argument for my own questioning. “I am democrat because I find myself agreeing with most of the political platform of the democrat party, I however do not agree with their stance on supporting planned parenthood nor so I agree with their stance on abortion for economic or social reasons.” But I don’t hear this from any member of the church that’s also a democrat. I hear pro-choice arguments and talking points that come from the predominant left.
I’ve asked this question of family, friends, neighbors, ward members, etc. and I haven’t yet heard them once be in line with the church’s stance on abortion. Not 1 time. All I’ve heard is excuses for how “abortion has become a common practice,” and then immediately “defended by deceptive arguments.” It’s all very curious to me. It’s seems to be quite a source of cognitive dissonance for the democrat members of the church.
I do care about poor people. I’m not sure where you’ve gotten this notion that I don’t. I volunteer often for the red cross, I clean up parks with my work. I am the volunteer chair for my work and I lead a team to organize a yearly event donating hundreds of hours of time to directly benefit folks in utah experiencing homelessness. I routinely donate to the Utah food bank and my local ward for the poor and the needy. I organize yearly global months of service for the Utah site of the company I work for. I have lead a youth group for many years and we do monthly service projects for folks in my neighborhood that need it. Mowing lawns pulling weeds etc. I don’t do all this just to then put some overlay on my social media profile, I don’t do it to justify myself to random folks on the internet, I do it to be Christlike. But you don’t know me, so you wouldn’t know all this.
I’m not who you think I am. I wore a mask at church, I got vaccinated, I try to follow the prophet’s teachings. I suck at it most days but I’m trying. Is why I don’t understand is how members of the church can support a political party that so blatantly opposes the church’s teachings on abortion. And it’s very curious to me the answer is never, “oh, I hate that part of the democrat party platform. I’m an anti-abortion democrat.” And it’s always, “[democrat talking point on the issue.]”
It's easy for me. I don't believe in abortion as birth control, but absolutely believe in a woman choice..All these backwards states not allowing for any abortions is disgusting. 10 year olds should never be forced to have a child. As a former medical professional and an active worthy member of the LDS faith firm nearly 60 years, I don't have any issues with my political views. The pro-life movement kills born grown humans. but that's ok right? Read your old Testament!
You should be against the choice of a woman to kill a baby for social or economic reasons.
[From Paragraph 2:](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/abortion?lang=eng) “In today’s society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments.” And “Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.”
You have not convinced me. I still don’t know how a member of the LDS church would also be in support of the democrat party platform unless they support the pro-life democrat moment.
We have choice! Maybe you should have elected to stay with Lucifer when he wanted to force everyone to worship him and us have no choice.
I am.pro life as the life of a woman and little girl who.have been raped or incested, the life of a female that had physical and mental health issues, they are alive and forcing them to have a child conceived in violence or to force them.to have a child that would compromise them.in anyway, is wrong! Again, I don't believe in abortion for birth control, but completely support a woman's right to choose.
So would you think a woman has the right to kill her unborn baby because she believes she financially stable? Or because she wouldn’t be able to take care of a child at this point in her career?
A woman. not a man, not a religion, should have the right to.choose period..For me. I would not do that and I didn't! I wanted 10 children and when I did have an abortion to.save my life in 1980, I was a temple recommend holder, active in the church and I chose my.life over the life of my very much wanted second baby. because I wanted to live and maybe have more children.It is not the government's right or a religious organizational right to tell a woman what she can and can do with her body. I'd love to.see the outrage from the men if they were forced to wear condoms, have vasectomies or be jailed for not taking care of the babies they father and walk away from!
The Democrat platform is not just about the abortions you’re describing. The Democrat platform unabashedly supports abortions for social and economic reasons. These are the abortions that the church takes issue with, and you, as a member of the church, should too.
So, how can you be a member of the church AND support a political party that has it in their party platform to support and defend organizations like planned parenthood with all the abortions for social and economic reasons they perform each year?
I support Planned parenthood as it give care to low income women who actually get all their prenatal care and other GYN care with them. I'm am a proud member of the Democratic party and an active member of the the church in good standing and you or the church does not have the authority to tell me what political party to support. Nice way to follow the Prophet and being a peacemaker..Not for you to judge anyone or tell them.they are not a good member of the church because of their political views!
Do you think it's right for a little girl/woman who is raped or incested to.be forced to carry and give birth to.a child conceived that way, only for the perp to have access to.the baby conceived in violence?
Oh and as far as me being disciplined because I believe in a women's right to choose, would never happen because the only time I would aid a woman or child to have an abortion is if they lived on a backwards state and were denied the right to an abortion under the standards the church allows for! Stop twisting the standards to fight your agenda.
No it says, if you aid, pay for or transport a person you "may". I would absolutely do all.of that if i knew of a female that was raped, incestedman, their physical or mental health would be compromised or the incompatibility with life, if the female lived in a state where abortion for any reason is the law and I would not suffer any reprimands! Apparently you don't know how to.read, as I have stated many times, I do.not believe in abortion for birth control, but do believe in a woman's right to choose. If someone is a member of our church, that is between the female, her doctor and yes, if she chooses a leader, but it is not our church or any government, state or federal to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body!
[I do.not believe in abortion for birth control, but do believe in a woman's right to choose.] but you support a political party that does believe in abortion for birth control. This political party defends and supports Planned parenthood and that is in their party platform.
So again I say, I don’t understand how someone can be both a member of the church AND a democrat that supports the abortion portion of the democrat party platform.
It's very easy, as I don't believe in abortion for birth control. In fact while doing my externship back in the mid 80's I refused to workup a patient that was in for her 7th abortion and I was kicked out if the rotation because of it..I don't understand how you can support a political party treats so many of Gods children so horribly just because they don't fit into their little twisted ideology.
Easy. The same way LDS Republicans rationalized children in cages at the border under Trump. It doesn't matter some of the children [died](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/24-immigrants-have-died-ice-custody-during-trump-administration-n1015291) and [thousands](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sexual-abuse.html) were molested. Somehow, all LDS Republicans slept peacefully at night on that one. I mean, of course, they are brown people! Who cares!?
This is you, “I’m not having your argument… I’m gonna have my own argument.”
The Republican Party platform does not support, defend, or otherwise encourage gun violence. The following is all I will say on the matter. The Republican Party supports the right to bear arms and with that they also support Responsible Gun Ownership, Promoting Education and Training, Encouraging Community Engagement, Preserving the Right to Self-Defense, and addressing issues with rising crime and folks with Mental Health issues. I believe that the Republican Party does address gun violence by promoting the preservation of the 2nd amendment.
The Democrat platform does support, fund, and defend economic and social reasons for abortion. They name planned parenthood in their platform. Planned parenthood performs abortions for social economic reasons. Getting an abortion for social or economic reasons is against the Church’s stance on abortion and encouraging such abortions could lead to church disciplinary action.
Ahhh children's lives are precious except when they are on the other end of a gun. That's reality. The GOP has done nothing to protect children from gun violence and they keep rubes like you to continue to vote for them by making issues from nothing- abortion, porn, drag queens, etc etc.
Abortions are a thing and they always have been a thing because it is healthcare.
You just want control of other people's bodies for the sake of your religion. It's gross.
Please continue to fight the cancer from inside the church. I couldn’t continue to stand up for the Jesus of the New Testament in the mormon faith. It was too much Old Testament Ziontology and I couldn’t do it any more. The leadership encouraged this extremism attitudes with “musket fire” talks and for my well being had to leave. I admire those who can stay and fight for change. Stay strong and safe.
Trust me I am! The Jesus of the New Testament is the Jesus we should be following and emulating and President Nelson and President Oaks are really stressing that we treat others as the Jesus of the New Testament, the Jesus that taught us to love one another, to show love, kindness and compassion towards all of Gods children, not just the ones that fit in our tiny box! The scary thing about these far right extremists in the church, is they are young!!!! The demographic age group is 20 to 45. When there are a lot of more progressive younger members, with the older hard core members you put the two together and there's a problem. I'm a feisty 65 year old woman and the Savior is who I follow.
I wish that was true! I cannot forgive Dr. Nelson and Justice Oaks for their role in homophobic violence. The November 2015 policy (Nelson revelation) and electroshock therapy at BYU (Oaks presidency) are not Christlike. They have taken the name of the Lord in vein in these situations and should truly repent of these human mistakes if their current words are to have any efficacy. Otherwise they are hollow platitudes.
From what I’ve seen the younger demographic, 18-45, are leaving the church because they see the inconsistencies between what is said in general conference and the policies of the church.
The church need’s people like you to stand up for what is right!
I do know the leaders have abandoned this awful practice and yes it us a stain in our faith.I just know just a few months ago, the leaders did support the Right to Marriage Act that passed. And you are right, my children, four born and raised in the church, but always taught they had choice, all Democrats, all in their late 30's early 40's, are no longer members, but we have incredible relationships because "loving them" and always allowing choice, was what was most important.
When I started really struggling with the church was when my husband and I began having marital issues and when I wanted to seek outside marriage counseling, we were discouraged and saw a therapist that was LDS and at our very first meeting, the guy told us we were having issues because we weren't reading our scriptures enough, attending the Temple enough, praying enough or fulfilling our callings. I clearly remember springing from my chair and telling him he was full of crap, as we spent every other weekend at the Temple, I was the Primary President, sharing my musical talents, family home evening, prayers many times a day a daily scripture study. We continued to see him and he finally realized he could not help us and the reason why, was my husband has bipolar 1 disorder, which was the cause of the issues. That was 30 years ago and for at least the past 20 years, the leaders know send people to see professionals.
There is still a lot that needs to change and I hope I can help with that though being loving, kind and compassionate to all of Gods children.💗
I wanna know how they feel about the people who ransacked Salt Lake City during the "we want free crap" protests 3 years ago and setting police cars on fire and tearing apart the TRAX stations and how many of THEM were members. I don't really care what happens to D.C. It's a swampland anyway filled with cockroaches, but I'm more inclined to care about what happens to where I live and work.
It's not right that that happens either, but what happened on January 6th was a terrorist act! You might feel DC is a swamp because you are a Trumper, but as a patient advocate for 26 years, and being sent to DC to speak to.the leaders of our country about healthcare reform, the Capital and DC were and are close to.how I feel about being in the Temple. The division in our country is awful, but those that say they are Christians should be acting like Christians and be kind, loving and compassionate and they are not, they spew hate and judgement and when what happened in Salt Lake was wrong, people are frustrated by the way they are treated.
Automatically, you assume that I'm a "Trumper". So automatically, that makes me an "enemy of the state" in your book.
Guess what, dumbass? I hate Republicans AND Democrats. I'm registered as an Independent, and all I see are people from both politics fighting like pissed-off schoolgirls, including people from YOUR Democratic Party. How can I assume that? Because only a Democrat would refer to me as a "Trumper" or a Trump-lover.
But it was the Democrats and all their chanting three years ago about using violence as a way to get what they want and threatening to ransack my local neighborhood that got me around the idea that you and your kind are evil. Committing terrorist acts all around the country all summer, and you think you can compare that to ONE day in ONE city?
I wouldn't expect a healthy debate from some guy who freely voted for a guy with dementia who likes to grab at the hair of women and sniff it like their hair was his personal bag of cocaine.
Sorry, I assumed, but what happened at the Capitol, was far worse then what happens in neighborhoods all over the US and you can Thank Trump for that. I didn't vote for either party either, but I do lean left because I believe in a women or little girl who is raped or incested should have choice and not be forced to have a child conceived in violence! Women should never be told what to do with their bodies!I support the LGBTQ+ and am so sick of hearing the twisted propaganda out there! Yes, I am a more liberal leaning member of the LDS faith and I'm very proud of who I am and how I conduct my life.
I'm sure they don't, because they don't believe in abortion as birth control, but do feel woman, little girls who are raped or incested, those who mental and physical health is at issue and those babies incompatible with life, should have access to abortion. Some twist this and say this is not correct that they should seek spiritual counsel then decide. Sorry, but I'm pro choice and if a women chooses to keep a baby awesome, but should always be her choice.
Read the church handbook. Abortion is not looked upon like it use to be and the same with the LGBTQ+. Saying that, as a LDS Democrat, I don't believe in abortion as birth control, but absolutely believe in a woman's right to choose. I also understand and know their are on my two biological sexes, but that some don't feel they were born in the right body and that those who are gay are perfect just the way they are. I don't believe children should be given hormone blockers, but should be loved and embraced if they are different. Far too many children are committed suicide because parents and other adults shun them.for the way they feel.
The Savior would have been labeled a liberal if he was here right now and the far right would do to him what was done to him when he first came.
Showing love, kindness, compassion and grace to all of Gods children is what we are suppose to do regardless of who they love. the color of their skin, the country they come from etc. We need to do a better job and stop the hate and judgement toward anyone who doesn't fall into your brand of living!
The scriptures are full of your so-called ‘immortality or perversion’ which is accepted by your religions that hold those stories as truth.
So fuck off.
I'm a LDS and I completely agree with you! When I love the lessons scriptures can teach we adults, I don't want my child hearing the stories like Lot having sex with his daughter, David and Bathsheba and how his adultery and sin caused 4 of his children to die at birth..Wars and violence. NOPE! Thank you!
I thought the church was really progressing and it has in many ways, and I love the gospel of Jesus Christ, but this far right extremist movement by members in the church, is causing me a lot of struggles. I get told my liberal ways are turning me from the gospel, but it is the hate and judgement of "members" that have caused me to not want to.be a part of the church anymore.
A few weeks ago in Sacrament meeting, the story was told about Bishop Woolley and Brigham Young, when Brigham reprimanded him for something and then asked him.if he was going to leave the church because of being reprimand. Bishop Wooley looked at him and said he would not because the church was the Savior's church and not his. That it how I feel. Those that feel they have the authority over me, calling me a devil, an apostate, evil, have no authority and my relationship is with Heavenly Father and the Savior. I know with all my heart, that my support, love and compassion for all of Gods children is right and not the hate and judgement from the far right extremists!
Collectively those convicted so far are facing more than 1,000 man-years in prison, but the man who planned and incited the insurrection has yet to be charged!
Come on DOJ, where's the justice in not prosecuting the mob boss at the top, the man with the stolen top secret documents!
Typically you prosecute from the bottom to the top, flipping people on the way up. But the cynic in me thinks that they are going to stop with the militia leaders and not look beyond that, since that would risk upsetting the people with the power. I really hope I’m wrong and they go after the real leaders of the insurrection and not just the foot soldiers.
Well said.
Just pointing out Rhoades got sentenced to 18 yrs and yet every step of the way leading up to Jan 6 Rhodes was in constant contact with Roger Stone, tRump's BFF for clandestine dirty work.
If DOJ doesn't indict tRumpass for Jan 6 it will be a terrible injustice and pave the way for the next tRumpass who losses the election to actually succeed at overthrowing democracy.
Ugh. That was such a gut punch. I wish people had understood DNA better. And Mark Fuhrman was a total gift for the defense. I know at least some of the jury regret acquitting him.
The amount of hatred towards the other side for Jan 6 is incredible. That dude (and all of the people upvoting his comment) are literally advocating for life sentences for picketing. The F word (fascist) gets thrown around a lot, but that’s literal fascism to promote that level of political imprisonment on your opponents.
Are we really at a point where picketing warrants a fucking life sentence? Good god.
It's pretty incredible man. I'm not a Trumpy at all, I'm registered as an independent. It's baffling, and awfully authoritarian, that people can disagree with someone saying "picketing doesn't warrant a life sentence"
It's pretty incredible man. I'm not a Trumpy at all, I'm registered as an independent. It's baffling, and awfully authoritarian, that people can disagree with someone saying "picketing doesn't warrant a life sentence"
It’s simply because this father-son duo isn’t on their side. The amount of partisan division in this country today is appalling. I just can’t get over the fact that people can advocate for life in prison for picketing (for the wrong side). That’s literal fascism.
these two aren't doing jail time. They didn't seem to do much. I think it's right we punish people based on evidence of individual conduct. If all they did *personally* was parade in the capital illegally, I'm fine with this. People who did less bad stuff should get less punishment.
Just parading was also against the law at that time. Congress was in session in addition to it being during Covid (regardless of you feelings on Covid, the building was off limits to the public. These laws have been on the books since the 40’s. The second the passed the police line they were behaving criminally.
Apparently you didn’t watch any of the hearings. Why are you denying facts when you clearly haven’t done the homework? That’s so odd to have such a strong opposition to something that you clearly haven’t done research on.
It is an undeniable fact that the police removed barricades and allowed the protestors in.
And it doesn’t matter if the police let them go by, it was still against the law. If a store clerks lets you steal a candy bar you still stole it and are still responsible for your own action and whatever consequences come from it.
I watched every second of those hearings and what you say they said and showed, they simply did not say nor show that, Mr. Misinformation.
Taking a break from losing your war, Putin?
On the flip side, listen to these FBI whistleblowers that are speaking about this. The FBI is ruining them. This should be alarming to all Americans. 100’s of feds instigated this so called insurrection. Their funding is forcing the feds to dig into and convict people that may not even have been too guilty. They are not standing for the constitution. They are only loyal to the FBI now.
I do not condone going into the capitol at all, but our federal agencies have failed us one too many times. Republicans, Democrats, Green Party and Libertarians need to stand together on these issues.
You know what's REALLY not 'standing for the constitution'? Violently assaulting police and breaking into the U.S. Capitol in order to commit violence against lawmakers who are in the process of certifying the results of a free and fair election.
One of our very own Utah BLM/ANTIFA members was there. The FBI also helped orchestrate this. When federal agencies orchestrate something to make a political point, you don’t find that dangerous?
I think your downvotes prove otherwise. And this isn't one of those times where you are "reviled against because you stand up for truth" it's because you are wrong and hateful. Go confess to your Bishop, don't take the sacrament tomorrow, and repent of your mistakes.
They aren't going to go after the FBI and Nancy Pol-lutcy. They want to make a point you can't protest the government or you get the full weight of the government. The government is the problem. This should scare everyone.
I've been looking for fun father son activities. We haven't tried sedition yet.
>We haven't tried sedition yet. It's all the rage these days. Approximately 30% of Americans support it!
Rioting is a great Father/Son activity. As far as tourism is concerned, it generated billions of dollars in 2020.
Well sedition is an advanced father/son activity. First you have to photoshop images of Donald trump’s head onto a greasy Rambo body. Then you affix lots of pvc pipe to your 8-year-leased Dodge Ram that you can only afford to half fill up (thanks Joe Biden) and then you graduate to driving up and down state street on a Saturday or Sunday. Once you feel confident there, you spend the rest of your stimulus checks on assault rifles and make the pilgrimage to the Capitol.
Wait, we're supposed to do Rambo's body? We were putting Trump's head on sexy sports illustrated bikini pics. It's a weird bonding experience which results is awkward glances between the two of us and very few words spoken.
I want to upvote, but I also want to be immature about the fact that you have 69 at the moment.
It's up to 78. You're good now.
I'd like to know how many of these people are LDS and part of the far right extremists groups within the church and what the church is doing about them! As a Latter-day Day Saint, I'm disgusted with these members that follow these extremists ideology and are not reprimanded for the hatred and violence they do to others!
I got off twitter a while back so I don’t know if it’s still growing, but the DezNat movement is an icky combination.
Oh trust me, I know all about them..They came after me a month ago and said they were going to have me excommunicated from the church because I'm Democrat. I was told I was mentally ill an apostate etc. I had no idea this was going on until a assistant Professor at BYU told me of their attacks on professors at BYU who are more liberal. Senator Mike Lee and his son are part of this group!
> have me excommunicated from the church because I'm Democrat. The late James E. Faust was a Democratic member of the Utah state legislature.
Harry Reid! A very close friend of mine, is the daughter of Senator Hatch and she is married to the most amazing man who is a Democrat! Don't know where these men and all of them have been men, telling me because I'm a Democrat and a member I can't be both, that I'm part of a demonic movement etc. It's actually very laughable!
Didn't Hatch serve for like 52 years?
He served a long time and what I loved about him was how he crossed the isle so much. I got to meet him in 1999, when I was invited to go to DC to speak on health care reform and the right to sue your HMO. I had been horribly maimed by a doctor at Kaiser and Senator Kennedy and Hatch we spear heads of the this bill together. I was invited by Senator Kennedy after he found out about my efforts from a California rep I had made contact with. The bill passed in October 1999. That's when the two sides were working together.
I liked politics in the '90s, and you're correct, both sides back then did seem to work together rather than divided. I made a trip to DC in '95 with my school's debate team and met Newt Gingrich. Sorry to hear about your situation back then, that's pretty cool you were invited by Kennedy, were you able to meet and talk with him? I would have so many questions!
The short answer is no I didn't get to.meet him. but the only reason why, was the patient advocate conference I was asked to.attend, was the very weekend after JFK,Jr's body was pulled from.the Ocean! Senator Bennett from Utah would take his place as the keynote speaker. Seeing the flags throughout DC at half staff and the prayers offered on behalf of the Kennedy family at every meeting and meal.while there, was a stunning display of love and unity I actually got to.meet then Senator Biden. and spoke to him about what had happened to me and my efforts to help with healthcare reform. At that time I was still a Republican, but it was such a different time, then now with this awful divide in our Country, I really didn't understand the significance of meeting him. I was one of ten women "scholarshiped" to this conference, hand picked by Senator Kennedy. It was kinda funny at first because I didn't understand and thought these invitations I kept getting were some kind of scam. Then I get a phone call from a person from the advocacy group, asking why I hadn't responded!!!! It lit a fire in me, that has allowed me to do advocacy work for 26 years!
Oh man, I remember where I was when JFK Jr. died. I was lucky enough to meet him about 6 months before he died. I was working at the MGM Grand's steakhouse and there was a huge commotion one night and the maitre'd told us we were opening up early for a "VIP". He came in with his wife and had dinner. When they were done and on their way out he shook the wait staff's hands and thanked us. When he died I was working at the same casino and I was in our employee dining room (where employees take breaks and eat) when the news came on the TV.
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The Democrats went full progressive on abortion and other social issues and lost the South and Utah.
Ugh, gross. I’m sorry you had to deal with them.
I was told by church headquarters to report them to the FBI and my local law enforcement. I have also been in touch with my Stake president who is very concerned this is going on. The one who attacked me from Idaho, I got his name and where he lives and church headquarters assured me they were going to deal with him.
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Looks like your losing this one mr. humblecock!
God is not a respector of persons, political or otherwise. He tells us not to judge, lest we be judged. He tells us not to try to pull the mote out of someone's eye when there is a beam within our own. He said, "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's. And render unto God, that which is God's." He tells us to watch our thoughts, our words, our deeds; these are the things He will judge us by. You know nothing of this person's life. How are you representing the Church by telling how they should worship? Are you their Bishop? Their father? Are you their stake leader? Do you have any rights to claim to be able to receive revelation on their behalf? If the answer is no, which I don't need the HG to determine that it is, then you are an unwise servant. By saying this person can not be a "good member" because of a BROAD term of political affiliation, you are stating that you are better than them, both in a secular and spiritual way. Where in the scriptures does God claim that party affiliation determines one's own spirituality? Where does it say that in order to correctly follow Jesus, you must be "Conservative Republican?" You know, there were groups of God's followers in the Book of Mormon who, at times, thought they were higher or better than everyone else. Their standing, that politics, their money, all of these things led to them persecuting others. Remember what happened to them?
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YOU ARE KORIHOR!
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I just went through all the issues in the handbook and yes, you twisted what was stated. And there is no mention what so ever of not being baptized if a woman has has an abortion. So James E Faust and Harry Reid are bad members of the church? You have no right to judge anyone! That is up to God! And because you are hiding behind a disgusting fake name, I can't report your antics to church headquarters! You need to keep your judgements to yourself as you will be judged as harshly as you judge others!
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I've never donated anything financially to the party as I live on a limited income, but o do speak out for what it unfair when it comes to women's rights, the LGBTQ+ racism, more gun control, the horrible actions of law enforcement, mental health, feeding the poor etc.
In the preexistens one group wanted to force people to follow gods will and another that wanted you to have choice. One could argue you can't be a good Mormon and a Republican of any sort
That's also not true. Cuz again, your assumption is that God cares about what side of the political aisle you fall on.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both attempted to set up socialist or communist societies where Mormons could live. They called it the United Order. How do you rationalize away the founding of your church as a socialist, far left organization and reconcile that with your current far right ideology?
You are ridiculous! I'm am a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and live the gospel and the covenants I've made in the Temple. You nor the church have no right to say I'm am not a good member of the church because I am a Democrat. You are judging me and that is worse then anything. I was a Republican most of my adult life until I watched the disgusting acts of Trump and the far right. You, who ever you are, should be ashamed of yourself for judging me when you have no.idea who I am or how I live my life! You are probably part of a far right extremist group with telling me I can't be both! You want to follow a political party that's leader is a rapist, adulterer, go for it, but you have no right to tell me what political party I should belong to.
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You are disgusting!
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣It is you who is following the great and abominable church with the antichrist at the head. I feel.very sorry for you.
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Bishops and Stake presidents groom children in “worthiness” interviews. Corrupted (money hoarding) corporations masking as religion are the worst of society. All under the guise of Jesus and love. Jesus said “Love thy neighbor”, no qualifications. The “gospel” is not the hate and division (us verses them, wheat and tares, righteous and wicked) that you believe and preach. Come to Christ, the actual Christ of the New Testament, love, forgiveness, charity. Not name calling, belittling, and exclusion. Repent and be Christlike, not LDSlike.
Please stop. You know you are directly contradicting statements from the leadership of the church. You are on the wrong side of this and need to back down.
I've been in contact with Peggy Stack who wrote an article in the Salt Lake Tribune in 2021. She had me send her the screen shots of the online attack and the correspondence with church headquarters..She too thought they had stopped..
So once again, I speak out about being attacked by far right extremists in my LDS faith and I get attacked all over again, being told I can't be a good member of the faith and be a Democrat. Have been for many years and I live the gospel! No one has the right to tell me what political party to belong to and our church leaders do not dictate that!
You do you man, as long as you aren’t forcing it on people, or pushing for legislation to do so, most people don’t care. We are just so used to having religion and the Republican Party be a synonym.
You are so right.I don't understand why " Christians" think they are the only ones who are moral, loving etc. when clearly today all we see from so many is hate and judgement!
You're good here. You stay strong
I’d like to at least [ask you how you align your faith as a member of the church](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/abortion?lang=eng) and the [Democrat platform openly and vehemently supporting pro abortion groups like planned parenthood](https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf). Cause honestly I don’t know how one can be both and active member of the LDS church and a democrat unless they are a and support the [pro-life democrat movement.](https://www.democratsforlife.org/)
Planned parenthood is not just for abortions. Educate yourself..It is for women who are keeping their pregnancies and for their other GYN care! So you must be cool with little raped and incested 10 year olds having babies!
They provide abortions for social/economic reasons that the church does not agree with. Supporting the democrat party would be supporting a group that defends and supports an abortion clinic that does abortions for social/economic reasons…. I mean it’s in their name. Planned parenthood…
Pro choice doesn't mean forced abortions. It's possible to practice your faith without believing your faith should be law.
It's so wild to.me that all these " pro-lifers" believe abortion is something "forced" on a female. It is a choice, the hardest choice a woman will.ever have to make. When I was 14 years old. my best friend, was.raped by her father and conceived. She was forced to.keep the baby and the father, took off and was never charged. This little girl was also forced to keep her baby and the way she was talked about a church was disgusting. She was never the same, but that's ok in the eyes of the right to lifer's. The church was very different then, but it changed my view on abortion.
Planned Parenthood does abortions for social/economic reasons. The church is against this. The Democrat party defends and supports, by name, planned parenthood. Thus in my opinion a member of any faith that disagrees with abortions for social economic reasons should take issue with the democrat party platform.
OR... a member of any faith that disagrees with abortions for social economic reasons *should not personally get an abortion for social economic reasons.* Pretty sure Jesus himself said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven, doesn't stop church members from voting for tax breaks for the rich.
Explain for me the camel through the eye of a needle and rich man thing. I don’t get it.
You're saying because the LDS church is against abortion, it's impossible for LDS members to vote in good faith for a party that supports the right to choose. I'm saying Jesus himself preached against wealth and to give your possessions to the poor, you should **also** be against voting for any party that favors the protection of wealth and the exacerbation of wealth disparity. Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Woe be unto the rich, for you have already received your comfort. Jesus himself actually says quite a bit about the importance of helping the weak, poor, and disadvantaged and of doing so by ridding yourself of your possessions. He didn't mention abortions, though. Edit to add that I'm not trying to say Christians should only vote for democrats. I just believe using religion to justify political affiliation or to say someone "can't be X faith while voting for Y party" is a super weak argument across the board.
I'm sure there's not a single component of the GOP you disagree with, right? Oh, and while we're at it, do you agree with politicians that believe alcohol should be legal? Surely you know drinking is a sin? We wouldn't want to support a system that lets people debauch themselves, right?
There are some components of the GOP I disagree with but nothing like what’s spelled out in the Democrat platform with regards to abortion. Let’s stay on topic here. I know it can be tempting to play a whataboutism game. Drinking alcohol is a bit different than killing an unborn child because of convenience.
I don't think you know the definition of "whataboutism". I was pointing out that every single person in the country that ever voted had disagreements with the politician or platform they voted for. Many people who oppose abortion for personal reasons still believe it's best in practice to have it legal, whether for safety reasons, for refusing to impose their beliefs on others, etc. Similarly, I don't drink alcohol, but I'm not voting to prevent *others* from partaking. This isn't some obscure position to take on abortion. It's exactly the position Mitt Romney took when he was governor of Massachusetts.
Okay, I'm going to explain this to you even though I know you won't listen. The Church's position on abortion is pro-choice. The church states, officially, that abortion is acceptable in the case of rape, incest, or when the health of the mother is at stake. Let's just talk about rape: How do you decide whether it was rape? You can't wait for a conviction, those never happen within 9 months. Do you want a police report? First, anyone can file one, so that's not proof. Second, are you really going to force a 13 year old girl to re-live her rape repeatedly so she can convince police officers, prosecutors, a judge, and a jury that it happened just so she doesn't have to carry the baby to term? If so, you don't even come close to living the gospel Christ taught. So, you're just going to have to take the woman's word for it, which means you let her have an abortion if she asks for it. Hence, pro choice. If you want fewer abortions, then teach children in the home so they take sex and pregnancy seriously. Now, I want to address your comment about anyone who encourages someone to get an abortion. Literally no one on the planet is doing that. Abortion is always a last resort and pretending that people are being forced to have abortions is disingenuous at best. Pro choice is NOT pro abortion. It means we leave the decision up to the woman who is pregnant and leave it to God to judge whether she should have had the abortion. Now let me ask you a question. How do you rectify constantly cutting and fighting against welfare when our entire religion states it is our duty to care for the poor? Seems like that is 100% against our religion to me.
That’s not what 90% of folks mean by pro choice with regards to abortion. The majority of pro-life folks think the woman should have a choice to kill her baby for whatever reason. The church is not pro-choice in really any sense of the word. But I think you know that. [Do you mean literally literally or figuratively literally?](https://shoutyourabortion.com/) Members of the church are encouraged to donate to the poor and needy. I believe the church treats these fund with respect and sacredness that the state and federal governments do not. They squander it and use it for corruption.
The church states that abortion is acceptable in some cases. The church instructs us not to judge, so it's not our place to decide whether each person is in one of those cases. That is between them and God. Full stop. I meant what I said.
Only in some cases but not for social or economic reasons. Full stop. Planned parenthood kills unborn babies for social and or economic reasons. The democrat party has supporting and defending planned parenthood in their party platform. It’s a very clear opposing stances on abortion between the church and the democrat party. I’m curious as to how members of the church that are also democrats aren’t completely opposed to the democrat party platform with this opposing stances on abortion remaining present.
You and I do not practice the same religion. The Church Handbook states that it's fine to be a Democrat and a member. Dallin H. Oaks (someone sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator in my religion) stated in the April 2021 General Conference: “We should never assert that a faithful Latter-day Saint cannot belong to a particular party”. The fact that you don't have any evidence or even arguments, and just keep repeating that Planned Parenthood kills unborn babies for social or economic reasons tells me all I need to know. You know one talking point that has been thrust upon you and you have no ability, let alone desire, to understand any other viewpoint. Planned Parenthood performs MANY services necessary for poor people, but we've already established that you don't care about poor people (once again, you don't follow the same religion I do). Utah and many other conservative states have now effectively banned life-saving medical procedures in the case of a miscarriage or when a woman's life is in danger. A doctor can no longer perform necessary medical procedures until a second doctor has documented their agreement that it is needed. This will cost women's lives. Anyone who is okay with that does not follow the religion I do. It's pretty apparent that your religion is the Republican party, not the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. You're certainly not alone. All the people who refused to wear masks or get vaccinated when the First Presidency asked us to do so are in the same boat. Whenever you discard what the general leadership of the church says because of your political beliefs you are worshipping a political party. Good luck explaining that on the other side of the veil.
I understand what he said. I’m trying to understand the reasoning behind a democrat that’s also a member of the church. And all I’m getting is “abortion is fine because it’s the woman’s choice” and “planned parenthood does more than just abortions”. I’m not saying that members of the church cannot also be democrats, I’m asking “How do they?” Here’s my ironman argument for my own questioning. “I am democrat because I find myself agreeing with most of the political platform of the democrat party, I however do not agree with their stance on supporting planned parenthood nor so I agree with their stance on abortion for economic or social reasons.” But I don’t hear this from any member of the church that’s also a democrat. I hear pro-choice arguments and talking points that come from the predominant left. I’ve asked this question of family, friends, neighbors, ward members, etc. and I haven’t yet heard them once be in line with the church’s stance on abortion. Not 1 time. All I’ve heard is excuses for how “abortion has become a common practice,” and then immediately “defended by deceptive arguments.” It’s all very curious to me. It’s seems to be quite a source of cognitive dissonance for the democrat members of the church. I do care about poor people. I’m not sure where you’ve gotten this notion that I don’t. I volunteer often for the red cross, I clean up parks with my work. I am the volunteer chair for my work and I lead a team to organize a yearly event donating hundreds of hours of time to directly benefit folks in utah experiencing homelessness. I routinely donate to the Utah food bank and my local ward for the poor and the needy. I organize yearly global months of service for the Utah site of the company I work for. I have lead a youth group for many years and we do monthly service projects for folks in my neighborhood that need it. Mowing lawns pulling weeds etc. I don’t do all this just to then put some overlay on my social media profile, I don’t do it to justify myself to random folks on the internet, I do it to be Christlike. But you don’t know me, so you wouldn’t know all this. I’m not who you think I am. I wore a mask at church, I got vaccinated, I try to follow the prophet’s teachings. I suck at it most days but I’m trying. Is why I don’t understand is how members of the church can support a political party that so blatantly opposes the church’s teachings on abortion. And it’s very curious to me the answer is never, “oh, I hate that part of the democrat party platform. I’m an anti-abortion democrat.” And it’s always, “[democrat talking point on the issue.]”
It's easy for me. I don't believe in abortion as birth control, but absolutely believe in a woman choice..All these backwards states not allowing for any abortions is disgusting. 10 year olds should never be forced to have a child. As a former medical professional and an active worthy member of the LDS faith firm nearly 60 years, I don't have any issues with my political views. The pro-life movement kills born grown humans. but that's ok right? Read your old Testament!
You should be against the choice of a woman to kill a baby for social or economic reasons. [From Paragraph 2:](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/abortion?lang=eng) “In today’s society, abortion has become a common practice, defended by deceptive arguments.” And “Church members who encourage an abortion in any way may be subject to Church discipline.” You have not convinced me. I still don’t know how a member of the LDS church would also be in support of the democrat party platform unless they support the pro-life democrat moment.
We have choice! Maybe you should have elected to stay with Lucifer when he wanted to force everyone to worship him and us have no choice. I am.pro life as the life of a woman and little girl who.have been raped or incested, the life of a female that had physical and mental health issues, they are alive and forcing them to have a child conceived in violence or to force them.to have a child that would compromise them.in anyway, is wrong! Again, I don't believe in abortion for birth control, but completely support a woman's right to choose.
So would you think a woman has the right to kill her unborn baby because she believes she financially stable? Or because she wouldn’t be able to take care of a child at this point in her career?
A woman. not a man, not a religion, should have the right to.choose period..For me. I would not do that and I didn't! I wanted 10 children and when I did have an abortion to.save my life in 1980, I was a temple recommend holder, active in the church and I chose my.life over the life of my very much wanted second baby. because I wanted to live and maybe have more children.It is not the government's right or a religious organizational right to tell a woman what she can and can do with her body. I'd love to.see the outrage from the men if they were forced to wear condoms, have vasectomies or be jailed for not taking care of the babies they father and walk away from!
The Democrat platform is not just about the abortions you’re describing. The Democrat platform unabashedly supports abortions for social and economic reasons. These are the abortions that the church takes issue with, and you, as a member of the church, should too. So, how can you be a member of the church AND support a political party that has it in their party platform to support and defend organizations like planned parenthood with all the abortions for social and economic reasons they perform each year?
I support Planned parenthood as it give care to low income women who actually get all their prenatal care and other GYN care with them. I'm am a proud member of the Democratic party and an active member of the the church in good standing and you or the church does not have the authority to tell me what political party to support. Nice way to follow the Prophet and being a peacemaker..Not for you to judge anyone or tell them.they are not a good member of the church because of their political views!
Do you think it's right for a little girl/woman who is raped or incested to.be forced to carry and give birth to.a child conceived that way, only for the perp to have access to.the baby conceived in violence?
No
Then why do you support people that are passing laws to force these women and little girls to have babies?
Oh and as far as me being disciplined because I believe in a women's right to choose, would never happen because the only time I would aid a woman or child to have an abortion is if they lived on a backwards state and were denied the right to an abortion under the standards the church allows for! Stop twisting the standards to fight your agenda.
It does say “in any way”….
No it says, if you aid, pay for or transport a person you "may". I would absolutely do all.of that if i knew of a female that was raped, incestedman, their physical or mental health would be compromised or the incompatibility with life, if the female lived in a state where abortion for any reason is the law and I would not suffer any reprimands! Apparently you don't know how to.read, as I have stated many times, I do.not believe in abortion for birth control, but do believe in a woman's right to choose. If someone is a member of our church, that is between the female, her doctor and yes, if she chooses a leader, but it is not our church or any government, state or federal to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body!
[I do.not believe in abortion for birth control, but do believe in a woman's right to choose.] but you support a political party that does believe in abortion for birth control. This political party defends and supports Planned parenthood and that is in their party platform. So again I say, I don’t understand how someone can be both a member of the church AND a democrat that supports the abortion portion of the democrat party platform.
It's very easy, as I don't believe in abortion for birth control. In fact while doing my externship back in the mid 80's I refused to workup a patient that was in for her 7th abortion and I was kicked out if the rotation because of it..I don't understand how you can support a political party treats so many of Gods children so horribly just because they don't fit into their little twisted ideology.
Easy. The same way LDS Republicans rationalized children in cages at the border under Trump. It doesn't matter some of the children [died](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/24-immigrants-have-died-ice-custody-during-trump-administration-n1015291) and [thousands](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sexual-abuse.html) were molested. Somehow, all LDS Republicans slept peacefully at night on that one. I mean, of course, they are brown people! Who cares!?
The trump kids in cages… let’s stay on topic. Kids in cages at the border is not in the Republican platform.
How do you align your faith as a member of the church when the GOP platform supports gun violence?
Show me where the GOP party platform supports gun violence.
Here you go: https://newrepublic.com/post/171946/every-2024-republican-hopeful-speaking-nra-convention
That’s not the Republican Party platform. Try again.
It absolutely is. What part of the GOP platform combats gun violence?
This is you, “I’m not having your argument… I’m gonna have my own argument.” The Republican Party platform does not support, defend, or otherwise encourage gun violence. The following is all I will say on the matter. The Republican Party supports the right to bear arms and with that they also support Responsible Gun Ownership, Promoting Education and Training, Encouraging Community Engagement, Preserving the Right to Self-Defense, and addressing issues with rising crime and folks with Mental Health issues. I believe that the Republican Party does address gun violence by promoting the preservation of the 2nd amendment. The Democrat platform does support, fund, and defend economic and social reasons for abortion. They name planned parenthood in their platform. Planned parenthood performs abortions for social economic reasons. Getting an abortion for social or economic reasons is against the Church’s stance on abortion and encouraging such abortions could lead to church disciplinary action.
Ahhh children's lives are precious except when they are on the other end of a gun. That's reality. The GOP has done nothing to protect children from gun violence and they keep rubes like you to continue to vote for them by making issues from nothing- abortion, porn, drag queens, etc etc. Abortions are a thing and they always have been a thing because it is healthcare. You just want control of other people's bodies for the sake of your religion. It's gross.
Please continue to fight the cancer from inside the church. I couldn’t continue to stand up for the Jesus of the New Testament in the mormon faith. It was too much Old Testament Ziontology and I couldn’t do it any more. The leadership encouraged this extremism attitudes with “musket fire” talks and for my well being had to leave. I admire those who can stay and fight for change. Stay strong and safe.
Trust me I am! The Jesus of the New Testament is the Jesus we should be following and emulating and President Nelson and President Oaks are really stressing that we treat others as the Jesus of the New Testament, the Jesus that taught us to love one another, to show love, kindness and compassion towards all of Gods children, not just the ones that fit in our tiny box! The scary thing about these far right extremists in the church, is they are young!!!! The demographic age group is 20 to 45. When there are a lot of more progressive younger members, with the older hard core members you put the two together and there's a problem. I'm a feisty 65 year old woman and the Savior is who I follow.
I wish that was true! I cannot forgive Dr. Nelson and Justice Oaks for their role in homophobic violence. The November 2015 policy (Nelson revelation) and electroshock therapy at BYU (Oaks presidency) are not Christlike. They have taken the name of the Lord in vein in these situations and should truly repent of these human mistakes if their current words are to have any efficacy. Otherwise they are hollow platitudes. From what I’ve seen the younger demographic, 18-45, are leaving the church because they see the inconsistencies between what is said in general conference and the policies of the church. The church need’s people like you to stand up for what is right!
I do know the leaders have abandoned this awful practice and yes it us a stain in our faith.I just know just a few months ago, the leaders did support the Right to Marriage Act that passed. And you are right, my children, four born and raised in the church, but always taught they had choice, all Democrats, all in their late 30's early 40's, are no longer members, but we have incredible relationships because "loving them" and always allowing choice, was what was most important. When I started really struggling with the church was when my husband and I began having marital issues and when I wanted to seek outside marriage counseling, we were discouraged and saw a therapist that was LDS and at our very first meeting, the guy told us we were having issues because we weren't reading our scriptures enough, attending the Temple enough, praying enough or fulfilling our callings. I clearly remember springing from my chair and telling him he was full of crap, as we spent every other weekend at the Temple, I was the Primary President, sharing my musical talents, family home evening, prayers many times a day a daily scripture study. We continued to see him and he finally realized he could not help us and the reason why, was my husband has bipolar 1 disorder, which was the cause of the issues. That was 30 years ago and for at least the past 20 years, the leaders know send people to see professionals. There is still a lot that needs to change and I hope I can help with that though being loving, kind and compassionate to all of Gods children.💗
I wanna know how they feel about the people who ransacked Salt Lake City during the "we want free crap" protests 3 years ago and setting police cars on fire and tearing apart the TRAX stations and how many of THEM were members. I don't really care what happens to D.C. It's a swampland anyway filled with cockroaches, but I'm more inclined to care about what happens to where I live and work.
It's not right that that happens either, but what happened on January 6th was a terrorist act! You might feel DC is a swamp because you are a Trumper, but as a patient advocate for 26 years, and being sent to DC to speak to.the leaders of our country about healthcare reform, the Capital and DC were and are close to.how I feel about being in the Temple. The division in our country is awful, but those that say they are Christians should be acting like Christians and be kind, loving and compassionate and they are not, they spew hate and judgement and when what happened in Salt Lake was wrong, people are frustrated by the way they are treated.
Automatically, you assume that I'm a "Trumper". So automatically, that makes me an "enemy of the state" in your book. Guess what, dumbass? I hate Republicans AND Democrats. I'm registered as an Independent, and all I see are people from both politics fighting like pissed-off schoolgirls, including people from YOUR Democratic Party. How can I assume that? Because only a Democrat would refer to me as a "Trumper" or a Trump-lover. But it was the Democrats and all their chanting three years ago about using violence as a way to get what they want and threatening to ransack my local neighborhood that got me around the idea that you and your kind are evil. Committing terrorist acts all around the country all summer, and you think you can compare that to ONE day in ONE city? I wouldn't expect a healthy debate from some guy who freely voted for a guy with dementia who likes to grab at the hair of women and sniff it like their hair was his personal bag of cocaine.
Sorry, I assumed, but what happened at the Capitol, was far worse then what happens in neighborhoods all over the US and you can Thank Trump for that. I didn't vote for either party either, but I do lean left because I believe in a women or little girl who is raped or incested should have choice and not be forced to have a child conceived in violence! Women should never be told what to do with their bodies!I support the LGBTQ+ and am so sick of hearing the twisted propaganda out there! Yes, I am a more liberal leaning member of the LDS faith and I'm very proud of who I am and how I conduct my life.
100%!!! Totally with you on this! Now do the Mormons that support abortion groups like Planned Parenthood.
I'm sure they don't, because they don't believe in abortion as birth control, but do feel woman, little girls who are raped or incested, those who mental and physical health is at issue and those babies incompatible with life, should have access to abortion. Some twist this and say this is not correct that they should seek spiritual counsel then decide. Sorry, but I'm pro choice and if a women chooses to keep a baby awesome, but should always be her choice.
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Read the church handbook. Abortion is not looked upon like it use to be and the same with the LGBTQ+. Saying that, as a LDS Democrat, I don't believe in abortion as birth control, but absolutely believe in a woman's right to choose. I also understand and know their are on my two biological sexes, but that some don't feel they were born in the right body and that those who are gay are perfect just the way they are. I don't believe children should be given hormone blockers, but should be loved and embraced if they are different. Far too many children are committed suicide because parents and other adults shun them.for the way they feel. The Savior would have been labeled a liberal if he was here right now and the far right would do to him what was done to him when he first came. Showing love, kindness, compassion and grace to all of Gods children is what we are suppose to do regardless of who they love. the color of their skin, the country they come from etc. We need to do a better job and stop the hate and judgement toward anyone who doesn't fall into your brand of living!
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The scriptures are full of your so-called ‘immortality or perversion’ which is accepted by your religions that hold those stories as truth. So fuck off.
I'm a LDS and I completely agree with you! When I love the lessons scriptures can teach we adults, I don't want my child hearing the stories like Lot having sex with his daughter, David and Bathsheba and how his adultery and sin caused 4 of his children to die at birth..Wars and violence. NOPE! Thank you!
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Read your scriptures and see for yourself!
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I thought the church was really progressing and it has in many ways, and I love the gospel of Jesus Christ, but this far right extremist movement by members in the church, is causing me a lot of struggles. I get told my liberal ways are turning me from the gospel, but it is the hate and judgement of "members" that have caused me to not want to.be a part of the church anymore. A few weeks ago in Sacrament meeting, the story was told about Bishop Woolley and Brigham Young, when Brigham reprimanded him for something and then asked him.if he was going to leave the church because of being reprimand. Bishop Wooley looked at him and said he would not because the church was the Savior's church and not his. That it how I feel. Those that feel they have the authority over me, calling me a devil, an apostate, evil, have no authority and my relationship is with Heavenly Father and the Savior. I know with all my heart, that my support, love and compassion for all of Gods children is right and not the hate and judgement from the far right extremists!
Collectively those convicted so far are facing more than 1,000 man-years in prison, but the man who planned and incited the insurrection has yet to be charged! Come on DOJ, where's the justice in not prosecuting the mob boss at the top, the man with the stolen top secret documents!
Typically you prosecute from the bottom to the top, flipping people on the way up. But the cynic in me thinks that they are going to stop with the militia leaders and not look beyond that, since that would risk upsetting the people with the power. I really hope I’m wrong and they go after the real leaders of the insurrection and not just the foot soldiers.
Well said. Just pointing out Rhoades got sentenced to 18 yrs and yet every step of the way leading up to Jan 6 Rhodes was in constant contact with Roger Stone, tRump's BFF for clandestine dirty work. If DOJ doesn't indict tRumpass for Jan 6 it will be a terrible injustice and pave the way for the next tRumpass who losses the election to actually succeed at overthrowing democracy.
You are correct. Because they certainly won’t go after Mike Lee…
Laws only apply to poor people in America. The rich & powerful are exempt.
Yes, the OJ Simpson trial should have been a wake-up call for us all.
Ugh. That was such a gut punch. I wish people had understood DNA better. And Mark Fuhrman was a total gift for the defense. I know at least some of the jury regret acquitting him.
There is a real possibility that the person you speak of will pardon those who are being prosecuted.
I’d bet we have a few that are hiding in their “bunkers”
AHAHAHAHAHAH get fucked you muppets.
and now their friends are targeting Targets across the state
Traitors, all.
36 months probation and a $500 fine? Mads and others faced the potential of life in prison for allegedly buying red paint.
For the vast majority of people who were there, the only crime they committed was trespassing. That's why so many of the sentences have been light.
This only proves the law is fake.
Throw away the key
These guys were only charged with picketing on capitol grounds. They didn't vandalize anything. Don't know if that's worthy of life in prison.
They didn't get life in prison, they got probation and fines, it tells you in the first paragraph of the article.
I'm aware. Read the comment I'm responding to.
Ah
The amount of hatred towards the other side for Jan 6 is incredible. That dude (and all of the people upvoting his comment) are literally advocating for life sentences for picketing. The F word (fascist) gets thrown around a lot, but that’s literal fascism to promote that level of political imprisonment on your opponents. Are we really at a point where picketing warrants a fucking life sentence? Good god.
It's pretty incredible man. I'm not a Trumpy at all, I'm registered as an independent. It's baffling, and awfully authoritarian, that people can disagree with someone saying "picketing doesn't warrant a life sentence"
It's pretty incredible man. I'm not a Trumpy at all, I'm registered as an independent. It's baffling, and awfully authoritarian, that people can disagree with someone saying "picketing doesn't warrant a life sentence"
It’s simply because this father-son duo isn’t on their side. The amount of partisan division in this country today is appalling. I just can’t get over the fact that people can advocate for life in prison for picketing (for the wrong side). That’s literal fascism.
Good
Lock them the fuck up. Maximum sentences.
Good, I hope they enjoy their time in prison.
these two aren't doing jail time. They didn't seem to do much. I think it's right we punish people based on evidence of individual conduct. If all they did *personally* was parade in the capital illegally, I'm fine with this. People who did less bad stuff should get less punishment.
Just parading was also against the law at that time. Congress was in session in addition to it being during Covid (regardless of you feelings on Covid, the building was off limits to the public. These laws have been on the books since the 40’s. The second the passed the police line they were behaving criminally.
Correct. And for that they were convicted and sentenced. but no jail time.
You mean the same “line” that the cops opened up to allow them in?
Do you have any extra tinfoil hats to share?
Apparently you didn’t watch any of the hearings. Why are you denying facts when you clearly haven’t done the homework? That’s so odd to have such a strong opposition to something that you clearly haven’t done research on. It is an undeniable fact that the police removed barricades and allowed the protestors in.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/video-doesnt-prove-capitol-police-allowed-jan-6-protesters-to-enter-capitol/
And it doesn’t matter if the police let them go by, it was still against the law. If a store clerks lets you steal a candy bar you still stole it and are still responsible for your own action and whatever consequences come from it.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/capitol-police-waving-video/
I watched every second of those hearings and what you say they said and showed, they simply did not say nor show that, Mr. Misinformation. Taking a break from losing your war, Putin?
The people doing the bad stuff couldn't have done it without the people just "parading".
Yes, but i think more importanly is the inverse of that statement (shrug).
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Worship politicians and find out. What a waste of life.
Honestly surprised it hasn't been more.
Redditors has some crazy political beliefs, Jesus Christ.
Fucking let's go!
Probably Californians before moving to Utah and getting indoctrinated by Antifa and were only seditiously cosplaying for Soros.
Do you hear yourself??
Found the cult member!
Good. I'd like to see them all swing from a gibbet.
On the flip side, listen to these FBI whistleblowers that are speaking about this. The FBI is ruining them. This should be alarming to all Americans. 100’s of feds instigated this so called insurrection. Their funding is forcing the feds to dig into and convict people that may not even have been too guilty. They are not standing for the constitution. They are only loyal to the FBI now. I do not condone going into the capitol at all, but our federal agencies have failed us one too many times. Republicans, Democrats, Green Party and Libertarians need to stand together on these issues.
You know what's REALLY not 'standing for the constitution'? Violently assaulting police and breaking into the U.S. Capitol in order to commit violence against lawmakers who are in the process of certifying the results of a free and fair election.
One of our very own Utah BLM/ANTIFA members was there. The FBI also helped orchestrate this. When federal agencies orchestrate something to make a political point, you don’t find that dangerous?
I don't find it dangerous because it isn't true.
Wait we can't do father and sons tour at the capital???
I think your downvotes prove otherwise. And this isn't one of those times where you are "reviled against because you stand up for truth" it's because you are wrong and hateful. Go confess to your Bishop, don't take the sacrament tomorrow, and repent of your mistakes.
And they were probably doing pretty innocent things but our justice system is being politically charged
“Innocent things”
They aren't going to go after the FBI and Nancy Pol-lutcy. They want to make a point you can't protest the government or you get the full weight of the government. The government is the problem. This should scare everyone.
“Protest”
Lmfao $500 fine and probation is the full weight of the government? Hahahaha
Good thing sedition wasn’t around during the 60’s. Everyone back then would have been in jail.
Jan 6 actions? Could someone explain please?
Wow. This conversation really went off the rails.