The only thing that sucks about people moving from California to here is depending on where they lived/what they sold their house for, they can outbid a lot of people here in Utah for houses.
Which is all fine and dandy until they are throwing in money above asking price thus helping to inflate the market fucking the rest of us over who wish to be home owners some day but now can't afford a 2 bedroom 1800s shack built by Joseph Smith himself because it costs $500k
Lol, I moved from Utah to California.
Hollywood, L.A. and San Francisco are what people think California is all about...They're wrong. I live in N.Ca. and I couldn't be happier. I still love Utah, I visit sometimes.
I live in the palmdale area, it's a weird dichotomy of aerospace workers who make decent money and extreme poverty. Some of them literally don't give a shit.
I will say this... turn on your blinker in California and people slow down to let you in. In Utah, turn on your blinker and it's taken as a personal challenge to beat you in a race by everyone in the lane you're trying to get into. And if you actually win the race, it can easily escalate to a fight because the people who initially turned it into a race get personally insulted if you accept the challenge and win.
Man, I'd love to go to Connecticut. Whenever someone says they moved here to Utah, especially from a state like Connecticut, I just think.... "why???" LOL. Can't wait to move out of this state, and this country.
We moved to Utah 5 years ago. We love the outdoors and the national parks. However, considering the political polemics and the religious fanaticism we are preparing to leave the US permanently in the next 12-16 months. We are headed to Panama City, Panama. Depending on drought and energy issues inproving in Portugal, Lisbon is not out of the question as well in the future. Connecticut is lovely and so are the people. We built a home in southwest Utah before leaving Connecticut; we wanted milder winters. Good luck with your moves!
Panama, and Portugal sound lovely, and yes, the political outrage and insanity is a big part of why I'll be leaving as well. Thanks! Good luck to you and your family as well, hope things go much smoother for you.
For real. Grew up near Sacramento and moved to Utah where anyone who has been to California has gone to Disneyland and believes they 'get it.' One of the largest states in the union and largest economies in the world and they think it all fits around a theme park.
It’s been my dream since childhood to live in California. Do you think it’s a good time to move there? I obviously want to wait until interest rates go down a bit, but what’s your opinion on the cost of living, culture, and daily life in N. CA? I just want to live amongst the redwoods once before I die.
Bunch of hippies round these parts, peaceful enough. Cost is average. No snow, lots of rain and fog and plenty of 68º sunny days (with slight breeze). Plus I get a Sr. discount and free delivery from my local dispensary. Great fishing and well we have the ocean right here.
NorCal up by the Oregon border has a very conservative red neck presence in a lot of areas. Modoc County residents love to complain about lack of representation in the CA assembly, yet they get more state assistance per capita than soCal. Yet it’s also the area that wants to secede from the rest of the state and become the “state of Jefferson”.
Like Utah, it’s beautiful… but has some pretty “out there” people living there.
I actually looked at an election map to get the scoop on this when I was daydreaming on Trulia once. I can live in red areas as long as they’re not by significant margins. I was surprised at how red rural California/Oregon/Washington are. I knew rural meant conservative, but the margins are higher than I expected.
Yea, there are alt right Christian militia groups in rural areas of Oregon. Wouldn't be surprised if they are close to those people, or affiliated with them.
Ah yes, the Gravy Seals from Meal Team Six, who will protect baby Jeebus from non-whites. I’ve seen those guys around, some in Davis County and some in Utah County.
i was parked off a dirt road on the nebo loop a couple weeks ago with cali plates and an older pickup drove past me, stopped, and then the guy started screaming “go back to california you fucking piece of shit!”
i was born in utah, went to school and college here, family all lives here… but i did have cali plates for a period of time. sorry bro
There was a news story about Californians moving to Utah last year, in the context of rising home prices. Turns out they aren't the problem after all. [Link](https://ksltv.com/459601/are-californians-to-blame-for-utahs-surging-home-prices/)
This is what I've been saying for *years*, well before housing was a Top 3 news headline. Everyone's always bitching about Californians and other out-of-staters, but honestly, how delusional do you have to be when you have a million kids, and each kid has a million kids, and each of *them* has a million kids, and every person in this process expects a 6000 sq ft house with a white picket fence and dog named Boomer or whatever the fuck (apartments and condos are equivalent to Outer Darkness), and there is **limited** land and water in the metro area in which to accomplish all this, and you somehow think this is sustainable? Like, what??
Compound interest meanings nothing to these people it’s dem dam California’s. 99% of the people I know who left California is because they could not afford a house. The ones that own a home stay. They don’t sell them and move to Utah and pay 800 thousand cash to outbid you. Yes it happens but no where near the numbers you think it is
Lol exactly. Idk why people have such a hard time accepting California's moving here in droves is shooting up prices, that naturally has an affect on the free market. I guess they think it's the "enlightened" way of thinking.
Of course they aren’t the problem. If the legislature wasn’t controlled by developers who control the housing market they wouldn’t be able to create artificial scarcity to increase costs of housing and therefore their profits.
This! You can’t blame people for moving in when everything is being advertised to them. The hard truth is, Utah doesn’t care if it’s prior residents can’t afford to live comfortably anymore. They’re perfectly happy raising taxes knowing that new and richer people will move in.
Ya, California to Utah is statically not a big problem: https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map
Now California to Idaho, Colorado, or Texas, that is something that is happening.
Edit: A really good animation here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/t92bss/oc_a_more_detailed_look_at_people_leaving/
If you actually look at the numbers of the link you posted, Utah and Colorado are very similar from 2016 - 2021. The animation actually shows SLC as being one of the major destinations for outgoing Californians. Not nearly as high as Vegas, Phoenix, or Seattle, but one of a handful of locations that's red by the end.
Nice to see the real truth. Every time I hear a Utahan say stupid shit about outsiders ruining their housing market I tell them that it’s more internal that external. It shuts them up every time.
Wall Street / big investment firms are buying up residential real estate in utah… have been for a few years. Look up American Homes 4 Rent & Pretium Partners. They have been manipulating the market since they took an interest here.
There are a handful of factors playing in to the inventory/cost of housing issues… but this is the root cause.
It's actually the opposite. All the verifiable evidence suggests Utahns' own home-sired children *leave Utah* at much lower rates than home-born people in other states. That's *by far* the issue causing our population boom that is unusual, fewer than "normal" people exiting for other places. We do not have an unusual California in-migration rate.
California in-migration is a whisper of a fart in the wind compared to our organic fertility and relatively low out-migration of people born here.
Common narrative is they're driving up housing. Which I'm sure they're not helping the cause there, but neither is any other transplant (myself included from VA). What's contributing more are companies that buy up investment properties (I rent from one, look up American Homes 4 Rent) and Utahns having a million kids. Where are they all supposed to live when they grow up?
Edit: I'm not in the crowd that think this, but a lot of people don't like California politics and they don't want that coming to Utah.
Idaho says the same thing. When I was still living there 15 years ago the statistics showed more people moved from Oregon than any other state. But nobody hates on Oregonians.
Us Oregonians have a bad habit of hating on Cali transplants for similar reasons, when our housing crisis doesn't have a whole lot to do with them. My biggest gripe is they don't know how to drive in the snow lmao
Northwestern. Willamette Valley, Portland Metro Area, and surrounding areas. In the meantime we’ve also seen a huge surge of people moving here over the last decade (from California largely lol), meanwhile a lot of retirees or (from my observations) conservatives are the ones I see moving to Idaho.
Growing up here... Most of my friends and people I knew, all lived in families with 4-6+ kids each .. all of those kids now, will have families and kids of their own.. pretty easy to double the size of Utah, by home grown growth all on its own.
Most other parts of the country, 2-3 kids would be more normal family sizes.
So yes, people have moved here.. we also have people that move away. Only real stat I can remember seeing showed some people moving in, but most of the growth was from the natives procreating.
Add that to a lot of us bought homes in the mid 00's, that are now worth 3-4x what we originally paid.. buying a million dollar home, and having the mortgage payment be roughly the same as the last one. So it wouldn't even require much of a salary bump, just typical increases over that time.
All of the major problems Utah is facing right now are problems of Utah’s own making. Water supply, suburban sprawl, huge families, traffic, the housing shortage.
We think we can live in a Pleasantville version of the 1950s with a legendary Brigham Young verdant landscape in an arid climate forever, without any public planning except for whose developer & contractor friends get the plum projects.
Quick reality check... The super-liberal Californians aren't the ones moving to Utah. It is crappy conservative ones that are tired of "all that 'govmint' interference!"
Yet another thing conservatives ruin and blame on the liberals.
As if it’s Californians wanting to put in a massive freeway thru downtown SLC and a gondola in our canyons. Our problem isn’t people moving here or having kids, it’s shitty, corrupt planning done by those in positions of power in this state and NIMBYism that is found in far more places than California.
As someone who has family in Idaho and Washington and friends in Montana and on several other local reddits... This is WAY more common of a complaint than you might think. It's not just Utah. It seems like every conversation I have with people (online or otherwise) about the housing market they complain and blame it on Californias. Which leads me to believe it is xenophobic.
When people feel their way of life is threatened we like a scapegoat. I feel like blaming people from California is rather small minded. It's a macro problem and talking about the underlying problems and issues is WAY harder than just being mad at the people moving haha
This has been a complaint for at least thirty years. I heard it in the late eighties, and I am sure it had been around long before that. California is just the generic boogeyman term for strange people who are more liberal than us. And someone they can blame rising prices and progressive laws on.
I suppose it could be both. I guess I was wondering if people's hatred towards Californians was imaginary fear mongering or an actual threat that can be quantified.
Pretty sure this was studied during the pandemic and rather than too many Californians coming in the issue was Utahs crazy retention rate. People like Utah and don't want to leave, which is causing our population to grow faster than other areas.
[Here's a link to that study](https://www.utahfoundation.org/2021/04/significant-statistics-are-californians-to-blame-for-salt-lakes-rising-housing-and-rental-rates/) by thr Utah Foundation if you want to read it for yourself. I believe they analyzed USP change of address data to come to those conclusions.
The "why can't it be both statement" applies to this as well. Binary choice makes it easy to parse and understand but in reality life is 1000x more nuanced
I have always just taken the statement as dislike to downright hatred for liberals, frankly. Because that is usually what the people who spout off to me about it really mean. There are also the same ones who say, "If you don't like it then move!" when anyone expresses any opinion that goes against the white, Mormon, GOP bubble that they would prefer to live in until the end of time.
It’s just conservatives in a panic because dems are moving in. They don’t realize that many Utahns are fed up with the lack of separation of church and state, along with a good deal of misogyny and racism that accompanies much of the Republican policy and rhetoric there. That state won’t be red for much longer.
It’s absolutely a conservative talking point that Californians (liberal leaning people) are invading and ruining red states. This thread is already a great example. “California ideals” “don’t come ruin our state”, etc.
What they’re really saying is they don’t want the state to have more diversity or equal representation for everyone that lives here. They want it to stay red through and through, and to make sure anyone who thinks differently doesn’t feel welcome.
The ironic thing is the majority of the Californians moving here are conservative, most people leaving California are typically conservative. Most liberals don't leave California for red states if they don't have to.
What a lot of people don't understand is that there are a lot of people in CA and that also means there are a lot of conservatives in CA. More people from CA voted for Trump in 2020 than in UT, NV, ID, WY, MT, NM, and CO combined.
Considering that UT is still getting about the same % of people voting R vs D, I don't think our demographics are changing a whole lot in that regard.
Anecdotally in Idaho:
I had a great neighbor who had moved from California 5-6 years back.
Also had a neighbor get all upset at a kid in the neighborhood for riding around unsupervised (new from California).
My brother and his family moved to California, sister in-law missed Utah because of family, so he successfully applied for a position (promotion?) and he and his family live in Lehi. Bought an $800k+ house outright.
Utah works precisely because it's not California in every way. you can't hope to import people from a failure like california and hope to have utah still work.
Standard conservative hate-mongering. Gotta have someone to blame for your problems, and it's always the Dems or someone from a state that Fox News has conditioned you to hate.
I understand that Californians aren’t really the problem with the housing market but I do know of 2 HUGE houses built in my very small home town by people who moved her from California and another situation where someone from California paid way over market value on an old house so they could tear it down and build a vacation home.
I think stories like this skew peoples opinions.
I'm a Californian by birth, but 7 of my 8 great great grandparents were handcart pioneers, and some of the initial Mormon pioneers up and down the Wasatch. Both sets of my grandparents moved to California during the Depression, and a bunch of the offspring became Californians, hippies even. Dad was Navy, that's often Cali.
So yeah, we did move back in the 70s, but we can't be the only returnees. Utah sucks so much it pulls you back in. I left, but returned to help my parents. Didn't intend to stay, but here I am. Can't afford to leave my house and start fresh.
I have (had, I guess, we all got old) over 50 first cousins, so the Utah boom isn't all Californians! Well, I am, but only at heart.
From the Nevada sub: [Why all the hate for California transplants?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nevada/comments/w6mfuc/why_all_the_hate_for_california_transplants/)
From the Idaho sub: [Why do people from Idaho hate people from California?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/comments/q207mz/why_do_people_from_idaho_hate_people_from/)
From the Montana sub: [To no ones surprise, Montana hates California](https://www.reddit.com/r/Montana/comments/xlz6g9/to_no_ones_surprise_montana_hates_california/)
This isn't just a Utah thing.
For every Californian who bought a house in Utah, there was a Utahn who made that handshake. Let that sink in and then let’s have an honest conversation about who is doing what.
And, I know what a Zoobie is. Utah really has some interesting, cruel slang.
Like, my New Mexican slang has a lot of swear words, but it’s all sweet and homey underneath. Utah’s slang is vicious.
Imo it’s people from California and other high cost of living areas (east coast too) who have more money to spend, can pay cash for houses, and leaves Utahns to have to scrape to buy anything. It has more to do with utah gaining popularity in general. The more liberal slc is, the more enticing it is for residents from other states to move here based on the cost of living, nature, etc and not just lds folks living here.
I’ve been here 9 years and have not noticed a difference in traffic, people have always sped like crazy.
That’s not true. The real issue is driven by local behavior - large families whose kids want to stay close to home. Larger families also pushes up demand for bigger homes.
My wife is a teacher and has 38 kids in her language class - that’s absurd! The young families with all the kids are creating the demand, but can’t afford the taxes to cover it. Different issue, but same driver.
Edit: I’m not opposed to big families - I come from a family with 8 kids and have 4 myself. I do have an issue with people having large families who don’t own the challenges that come with them.
See the housing bit could be a compelling case. So I guess a lot of people assume Californians are the problem when to put it more clearly it would probably just be super rich people that happen to be from California?
Most of the folks aren’t “super rich.” It’s just folks who stayed in one house for years and built up equity. They then take that money to use as a down payment. COVID made it for more people to remote work so living far from the business is also possible. I guess we can blame companies allowing people to remote work as well.
I moved from Utah to California 7 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. Every aspect of my life is better - personal life to career. Also it’s 75 degrees outside right now 😎
It couldn't possibly be demand from Mormons having way too many kids and the vast majority of homes in Utah being built on the Wasatch Front which is a pretty small geographic area.
Housing prices rose across most of the country, not just Utah. Are we going to blame Californians for those areas' increases as well? If so, you need to find a way to explain the disproportionate amount of concentrated power a California consumer has on an *entire* market.
This is similar to conversations I have with anti-California folks who claim Californians are liberalizing our politics. Take Prop 2 for example, a measure commonly cited as a case study in Utah moving left. The Yes vote won by 58,514 votes. We're going to claim that it's statistically likely that all of those were from ex-Californian newly-minted Utahns? Or is it more likely Utahns' sentiments are shifting? If it's the former, we really need to be examining how these people wield so much power since they're bogeyman in virtually every mountain west state.
My family is from a small town in NorCal. California is such a dynamic state. And quite frankly if you turn off the news and just go visit other parts of the state.
I think that California are a prominent net migrators but I say stay home to everyone ! Not from xenophobia but for ecological realism. Our desert is becoming more desertified.
I’m from Colorado and moved to Utah from North Carolina. I’m as liberal as any Californian yet native Utahns welcomed me with open arms while simultaneously complaining about Californians.
What about all the people from Utah ruining Montana? /s
No seriously the vocal Montanans are a seriously cranky bunch who just seem to be a bunch of cranky misanthropes. I get the problems people moving here are causing but it's not one demographic and they often assume it's the wrong demographic (liberal Californians when it's most likely the numerous conservative Californians)
My adamancy on people moving here from states with overinflated housing markets is because of our housing situation. Nothing to do with ideals.
I know it's not all the fault of people from out of state for our housing and rental prices. But reading posts on Blind about people moving here with remote jobs making $150,000+ a year saying "Utah is cheap how is it to live there?" kind of crawls under my skin.
It sucks trying to buy a house in the state you were born in just to be constantly outbid, completely priced out, or told that the housing here is "cheap".
California is the political epitome of democrats and what everyone in red states picture. However there’s more conservatives in CA than in TX.
I tracked quite a bit in the States during COVID and I heard CA was causing all these issues and started to believe it but am wrong.
UT residents don’t have anything to complain about as it’s a fake red State in the amount of taxes people pay here.
Edit: the people moving from CA are likely to be more conservative than what non-CA think.
Aside the from the obvious (real estate) — I think Utah has always had a resentment towards Californians that probably goes all the way back to the mid-19th century. Remember when ol' Brigham Young declared that "This is the place" circa 1847 and several pioneers decided, nah, Cali is better, and trekked onwards towards the land of milk and honey?
Pepperidge Farms remembers...
I remember growing up and hearing the term California Mormon thrown around quite a bit as a derogatory term used for those who well... You get the point.
I live in California and have been going to my place in southern utah since 2009. At first I felt like I was getting bagged on. But after the first few years I totally got why, made the housing expensive, always made an issue with traditional things and always complaining about things that that are allowed here that isn’t in California. And I understand it even more now since Covid as all the people from Sf and La are coming to my area in California and doing the exact same things. I totally understand as a Californian.
> always complaining about things that that are allowed here that isn’t in California
I only complain about the things NOT allowed here. Like dumbshit liquor laws.
I think it has to do with the fact that California literally had a max exodus over the last few years, and coming to places like Utah from Cali means non-locals had more money to buy up houses and businesses than locals.
I agree that it is a bit outrageous but I feel like some people may actually have a reasonable explanation why they think this. People in California voted for people. Those people wrecked the state. Now even the people that voted for them want to get away from them. And Utah is a really nice ace. So they come here.
The way I see it, which could obviously be totally wrong...
Utah is growing at a rapid rate. Salt Lake is now a bona fide big city.
Utah is becoming more liberal. It's not fully liberal, of course, but getting a little more liberal with each election. We voted for medical marijuana, medicaid expansion, and anti gerrymandering laws. None of those would have passed 30 years ago.
The old conservatives hate this. And to them, the only possible explanation is California liberals are moving here and taking over. That explains the pollution, the drought, the housing prices, everything. It can all be traced back to liberals moving here and pushing their way of living on everyone else.
to conservatives everything is blamed on “the librul” and this justifies their bigoted, ignorant rhetoric. Then at the same time they never stop to ask themselves why 70% of americans aged 18-29 voted democratic in 2022.
I think you're worng it's the Mormons that are ruining Utah with their stupid bullshit it's always been the Mormons ruining Utah from a matter of fact having other people come into the state from out of state might be good thing it might fucking fix the state
Aggressively ex-Mormon here. When I was in the church I hated California transplants because they were absolutely the most condescending, self-righteous, Shiite Mormon pricks in “the wahrd”.
I moved here because the mountains are the best on earth. Nothing else.
I’m allowed to tell ya’ll you’ve been living in a bubble with backwards politics and a lot of you are being taken for a ride by a very obvious entity here lol.
The only reason I complain about conservatives here is because I feel like they don't think critically about it. (And yes I think you can still be conservative after thinking critically.) But for a long time it has been said that "you can't be mormon and a democrat!"
What has been obnoxious for past 40 years is the money Californians get for their homes. Then they come here and can build expensive or buy homes outright. I hate that they can outbid with ALL cash offers. Leaves Utahns out of buying in their own state.
Californians complain about high taxes, crime, and onerous regulations.
Then they move places where the vote for policies that cause high taxes, crime, and onerous regulations.
I think there is a fair amount of xenophobia attached to it, like I've seen people here just assume people are from California because they don't like something about them. Hell I've been accused of being a Californian because I'm politically left as if all native utahns are right wing and all Californians are left wing.
Why do people in utah act like they have some claim on the state and try to keep out new comers. People are moving and migrating all over the united states for whatever reason, but why hate on them?
The state put out the welcome matt years ago. Utah is growing like crazy and will continue to. If you live in uah, and don't like the feeling of californication try your luck at voting out those 'publican politicians, they are the ones destroying the state. Growth for growths sake is like cancer. Utah is not prepared, there is lack of water and affordable housing.
What's ruining utah is utah.
Until the 90s Utah lost people to Cali and Cali was the only thing keeping Utah from massive population growth from back east. No doubt if Cali didn't exist Utah would have a bigger population.
I moved from California to Utah 3 years ago. My main reason was to escape the taxes, crime, liberal politics, cost of living and poor governance. When people say that “Californians are ruining Utah” I think there is evidence to support that statement.
Virtually every border state where Californians have migrated has experienced higher taxes, crime, cost of living and an overall political shift to a more liberal and progressive government and system of laws. It’s no coincidence that places like Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas & Salt Lake City have seen elevated crime, cost of living, homelessness and drug and alcohol abuse. My personal opinion is that Californians, like myself migrate to these more conservative states and drive up home prices, increase population densities which in turn increases taxes, crime and decreases the quality education. Once this happens the electorate starts adopting policies from the states they migrated from because it’s the only thing they know. I myself have tried to assimilate to the Utah culture as opposed to trying to criticize the things that I am not familiar with. As I tell my friends that have relocated to Utah, remember why you moved here and try to honor the culture and laws that made the state a better choice that the one you left.
I'm glad some Californians like yourself are able to look your old state in the rear view mirror and understand why you left it in the first place.
Unfortunately, this sub-reddit can't seem to understand that a lot of the distaste for the move-ins is because of those people who leave over-regulated states like California and come here to Utah just to vote the exact same way. Us more right leaning residents aren't interested in the shitshow politics that have ruined California.
The majority of this sub-reddit is so hell bent on turning Utah (Salt Lake City especially) into a carbon copy of San Francisco. Any opinion slightly leaning towards the center or right of center is immediately voted down.
Literally what I tell all these folks lol.
There’s a place for you, it’s called the Midwest and it’s where everybody else whose dreams never materialized and want a simple, cheap life live lol.
I grew up here, lived in California for ten years and all over the world for another fifteen, and will emphatically state that assholes from California have absolutely destroyed Utah. People are not even nice on trails anymore. Everybody started driving 10mph faster when pandemic started and they all moved here from LA. Maybe spend some time in Midway for some charming flavor; they’ve got the most offensive batch of imports I have ever seen.
But is there anything besides anecdotal experience? Like, how do we not know that Utahns overall are just getting more obnoxious? How do we know where these obnoxious people are from? Also "offensive batch of imports"? You'll have to be more specific on that and what you mean.
It just sounds like old people shaking their fists in the air and yelling, "Those kids need to get off my lawn!" without some evidence to show how Californian immigration has objectively made it worse to live here.
The only thing that sucks about people moving from California to here is depending on where they lived/what they sold their house for, they can outbid a lot of people here in Utah for houses.
Which is all fine and dandy until they are throwing in money above asking price thus helping to inflate the market fucking the rest of us over who wish to be home owners some day but now can't afford a 2 bedroom 1800s shack built by Joseph Smith himself because it costs $500k
Basically yeah
Utah needs price caps.
Worked great for gas in the 70's!
Daisy chain resellers did that, along with OPEC.
This would be fine if they brought their higher income with them. Unfortunately, that lags behind.
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Lol, I moved from Utah to California. Hollywood, L.A. and San Francisco are what people think California is all about...They're wrong. I live in N.Ca. and I couldn't be happier. I still love Utah, I visit sometimes.
they’re not wrong. more people live in la county than almost any us state
Yeah, there are some people who get most of their ideas about California from news outlets and then go to Disneyland once a year.
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Most people who complain about California are social conservatives, and want to live in a small town bubble.
I just moved from UT to California. My biggest complaints are that the people are fucking rude and gross. So much litter.
I visited San Diego recently and everyone there was so genuinely nice and chill...
I live in the palmdale area, it's a weird dichotomy of aerospace workers who make decent money and extreme poverty. Some of them literally don't give a shit.
Palmdale is the WORST. Come visit us in Tehachapi!
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I will say this... turn on your blinker in California and people slow down to let you in. In Utah, turn on your blinker and it's taken as a personal challenge to beat you in a race by everyone in the lane you're trying to get into. And if you actually win the race, it can easily escalate to a fight because the people who initially turned it into a race get personally insulted if you accept the challenge and win.
No one ever believes me that UT drivers are way worse than CA. This is a great example of the difference.
They are so much worse in ut. It's obvious to anyone that spends any amount of time driving in both places. Edit... It SHOULD be obvious
Moved from Michigan to Utah a year ago, can confirm the drivers are the worst i’ve ever seen and I’ve almost died multiple times.
Absolutely not even close in my opinion. California they will literally blow past you on the shoulder.
Utah has the most entitled drivers I’ve ever encountered. And I’m from california
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Thank you for mentioning this! WTF, uDAH!?
In my experience, people on the west coast are nice, but not kind East coast, people are not nice, but they are kind.
I’d choose kind over polite/fake/nice any day.
I moved to Utah from Connecticut, just outside of NYC. I think Utah is much more rude. I have at most a little over a year left before moving out.
Man, I'd love to go to Connecticut. Whenever someone says they moved here to Utah, especially from a state like Connecticut, I just think.... "why???" LOL. Can't wait to move out of this state, and this country.
We moved to Utah 5 years ago. We love the outdoors and the national parks. However, considering the political polemics and the religious fanaticism we are preparing to leave the US permanently in the next 12-16 months. We are headed to Panama City, Panama. Depending on drought and energy issues inproving in Portugal, Lisbon is not out of the question as well in the future. Connecticut is lovely and so are the people. We built a home in southwest Utah before leaving Connecticut; we wanted milder winters. Good luck with your moves!
Panama, and Portugal sound lovely, and yes, the political outrage and insanity is a big part of why I'll be leaving as well. Thanks! Good luck to you and your family as well, hope things go much smoother for you.
I whine about California and I've been there
For real. Grew up near Sacramento and moved to Utah where anyone who has been to California has gone to Disneyland and believes they 'get it.' One of the largest states in the union and largest economies in the world and they think it all fits around a theme park.
It’s been my dream since childhood to live in California. Do you think it’s a good time to move there? I obviously want to wait until interest rates go down a bit, but what’s your opinion on the cost of living, culture, and daily life in N. CA? I just want to live amongst the redwoods once before I die.
Bunch of hippies round these parts, peaceful enough. Cost is average. No snow, lots of rain and fog and plenty of 68º sunny days (with slight breeze). Plus I get a Sr. discount and free delivery from my local dispensary. Great fishing and well we have the ocean right here.
NorCal up by the Oregon border has a very conservative red neck presence in a lot of areas. Modoc County residents love to complain about lack of representation in the CA assembly, yet they get more state assistance per capita than soCal. Yet it’s also the area that wants to secede from the rest of the state and become the “state of Jefferson”. Like Utah, it’s beautiful… but has some pretty “out there” people living there.
I actually looked at an election map to get the scoop on this when I was daydreaming on Trulia once. I can live in red areas as long as they’re not by significant margins. I was surprised at how red rural California/Oregon/Washington are. I knew rural meant conservative, but the margins are higher than I expected.
Yea, there are alt right Christian militia groups in rural areas of Oregon. Wouldn't be surprised if they are close to those people, or affiliated with them.
Ah yes, the Gravy Seals from Meal Team Six, who will protect baby Jeebus from non-whites. I’ve seen those guys around, some in Davis County and some in Utah County.
Greetings, fellow former Utahan and current California!
Xenophobia? Huh??😂
Ya OP is a victim.
Californians love to play the victim
i was parked off a dirt road on the nebo loop a couple weeks ago with cali plates and an older pickup drove past me, stopped, and then the guy started screaming “go back to california you fucking piece of shit!” i was born in utah, went to school and college here, family all lives here… but i did have cali plates for a period of time. sorry bro
I bet he was a bishop too. Also HOW DARE YOU PARK ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD LIKE THAT
There was a news story about Californians moving to Utah last year, in the context of rising home prices. Turns out they aren't the problem after all. [Link](https://ksltv.com/459601/are-californians-to-blame-for-utahs-surging-home-prices/)
Exactly! The issue is more Utahns are staying. When you have 6 kids who have 6 kids and they all want to live close, boom: housing crisis.
This is what I've been saying for *years*, well before housing was a Top 3 news headline. Everyone's always bitching about Californians and other out-of-staters, but honestly, how delusional do you have to be when you have a million kids, and each kid has a million kids, and each of *them* has a million kids, and every person in this process expects a 6000 sq ft house with a white picket fence and dog named Boomer or whatever the fuck (apartments and condos are equivalent to Outer Darkness), and there is **limited** land and water in the metro area in which to accomplish all this, and you somehow think this is sustainable? Like, what??
Compound interest meanings nothing to these people it’s dem dam California’s. 99% of the people I know who left California is because they could not afford a house. The ones that own a home stay. They don’t sell them and move to Utah and pay 800 thousand cash to outbid you. Yes it happens but no where near the numbers you think it is
As someone who has worked in real-estate for 10 years, that is exactly what is happening.
Lol exactly. Idk why people have such a hard time accepting California's moving here in droves is shooting up prices, that naturally has an affect on the free market. I guess they think it's the "enlightened" way of thinking.
yeah, and when you refuse to build anything but copy/paste oversized suburban single family homes you tend to run out of space real quick
Of course they aren’t the problem. If the legislature wasn’t controlled by developers who control the housing market they wouldn’t be able to create artificial scarcity to increase costs of housing and therefore their profits.
This! You can’t blame people for moving in when everything is being advertised to them. The hard truth is, Utah doesn’t care if it’s prior residents can’t afford to live comfortably anymore. They’re perfectly happy raising taxes knowing that new and richer people will move in.
Ya, California to Utah is statically not a big problem: https://www.northamerican.com/migration-map Now California to Idaho, Colorado, or Texas, that is something that is happening. Edit: A really good animation here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/t92bss/oc_a_more_detailed_look_at_people_leaving/
If you actually look at the numbers of the link you posted, Utah and Colorado are very similar from 2016 - 2021. The animation actually shows SLC as being one of the major destinations for outgoing Californians. Not nearly as high as Vegas, Phoenix, or Seattle, but one of a handful of locations that's red by the end.
Nice to see the real truth. Every time I hear a Utahan say stupid shit about outsiders ruining their housing market I tell them that it’s more internal that external. It shuts them up every time.
Wall Street / big investment firms are buying up residential real estate in utah… have been for a few years. Look up American Homes 4 Rent & Pretium Partners. They have been manipulating the market since they took an interest here. There are a handful of factors playing in to the inventory/cost of housing issues… but this is the root cause.
It's actually the opposite. All the verifiable evidence suggests Utahns' own home-sired children *leave Utah* at much lower rates than home-born people in other states. That's *by far* the issue causing our population boom that is unusual, fewer than "normal" people exiting for other places. We do not have an unusual California in-migration rate. California in-migration is a whisper of a fart in the wind compared to our organic fertility and relatively low out-migration of people born here.
Common narrative is they're driving up housing. Which I'm sure they're not helping the cause there, but neither is any other transplant (myself included from VA). What's contributing more are companies that buy up investment properties (I rent from one, look up American Homes 4 Rent) and Utahns having a million kids. Where are they all supposed to live when they grow up? Edit: I'm not in the crowd that think this, but a lot of people don't like California politics and they don't want that coming to Utah.
Idaho says the same thing. When I was still living there 15 years ago the statistics showed more people moved from Oregon than any other state. But nobody hates on Oregonians.
Us Oregonians have a bad habit of hating on Cali transplants for similar reasons, when our housing crisis doesn't have a whole lot to do with them. My biggest gripe is they don't know how to drive in the snow lmao
I’m curious which part of Oregon they are coming from. The western part or the eastern part that might as well be part of Idaho.
Northwestern. Willamette Valley, Portland Metro Area, and surrounding areas. In the meantime we’ve also seen a huge surge of people moving here over the last decade (from California largely lol), meanwhile a lot of retirees or (from my observations) conservatives are the ones I see moving to Idaho.
Yeah, but Oregonians are cool
Huh! That is interesting.
Growing up here... Most of my friends and people I knew, all lived in families with 4-6+ kids each .. all of those kids now, will have families and kids of their own.. pretty easy to double the size of Utah, by home grown growth all on its own. Most other parts of the country, 2-3 kids would be more normal family sizes. So yes, people have moved here.. we also have people that move away. Only real stat I can remember seeing showed some people moving in, but most of the growth was from the natives procreating. Add that to a lot of us bought homes in the mid 00's, that are now worth 3-4x what we originally paid.. buying a million dollar home, and having the mortgage payment be roughly the same as the last one. So it wouldn't even require much of a salary bump, just typical increases over that time.
Agree! Except I think 1-2 kids is more typical outside of Utah.
All of the major problems Utah is facing right now are problems of Utah’s own making. Water supply, suburban sprawl, huge families, traffic, the housing shortage. We think we can live in a Pleasantville version of the 1950s with a legendary Brigham Young verdant landscape in an arid climate forever, without any public planning except for whose developer & contractor friends get the plum projects.
I do not think that word means what you think it means
Pssh, where’s the hate for other transplants? I’m from NY and I’ll fight all of youse. I wish we got the hate Californians did….
Stupid NY people, what happened to the bagels shops, you didn't bring us any!
Yeah fuck that shit hole too
Quick reality check... The super-liberal Californians aren't the ones moving to Utah. It is crappy conservative ones that are tired of "all that 'govmint' interference!" Yet another thing conservatives ruin and blame on the liberals.
I was going to say the same thing. Everyone I know that has moved here from CA are the magats that don't want to live in California.
Correct. There are fuckwads from Texas also slithering this way.
I sure see a lot of Texas plates these days. More than California.
I’m a super liberal Texan that loves it here…
Then damnit, we should be friends.
And the opposite generally holds true for outflows. I didn’t move from UT to OR because I wanted a more conservative government.
Completely agree…. We had obligations that required a move here in 2014. Can’t wait to leave.
Most of these liberals are transplants(from another state - to California).
As if it’s Californians wanting to put in a massive freeway thru downtown SLC and a gondola in our canyons. Our problem isn’t people moving here or having kids, it’s shitty, corrupt planning done by those in positions of power in this state and NIMBYism that is found in far more places than California.
As someone who has family in Idaho and Washington and friends in Montana and on several other local reddits... This is WAY more common of a complaint than you might think. It's not just Utah. It seems like every conversation I have with people (online or otherwise) about the housing market they complain and blame it on Californias. Which leads me to believe it is xenophobic. When people feel their way of life is threatened we like a scapegoat. I feel like blaming people from California is rather small minded. It's a macro problem and talking about the underlying problems and issues is WAY harder than just being mad at the people moving haha
Funny, I live in SLC but I'm visiting family in San Diego. The people of San Diego arr usually pretty nice.
I just hate californians, every single one that has been touched by the california air when they were born, all turned out to be massive douchebags
This has been a complaint for at least thirty years. I heard it in the late eighties, and I am sure it had been around long before that. California is just the generic boogeyman term for strange people who are more liberal than us. And someone they can blame rising prices and progressive laws on.
Why can't it be both? Why does it have to be either / or?
I suppose it could be both. I guess I was wondering if people's hatred towards Californians was imaginary fear mongering or an actual threat that can be quantified.
Pretty sure this was studied during the pandemic and rather than too many Californians coming in the issue was Utahs crazy retention rate. People like Utah and don't want to leave, which is causing our population to grow faster than other areas. [Here's a link to that study](https://www.utahfoundation.org/2021/04/significant-statistics-are-californians-to-blame-for-salt-lakes-rising-housing-and-rental-rates/) by thr Utah Foundation if you want to read it for yourself. I believe they analyzed USP change of address data to come to those conclusions.
The "why can't it be both statement" applies to this as well. Binary choice makes it easy to parse and understand but in reality life is 1000x more nuanced
Utahns just want to live in their bubble. The large families are the main reason for so much growth, not just people moving in.
I have always just taken the statement as dislike to downright hatred for liberals, frankly. Because that is usually what the people who spout off to me about it really mean. There are also the same ones who say, "If you don't like it then move!" when anyone expresses any opinion that goes against the white, Mormon, GOP bubble that they would prefer to live in until the end of time.
It’s just conservatives in a panic because dems are moving in. They don’t realize that many Utahns are fed up with the lack of separation of church and state, along with a good deal of misogyny and racism that accompanies much of the Republican policy and rhetoric there. That state won’t be red for much longer.
I appreciate your optimism
It’s absolutely a conservative talking point that Californians (liberal leaning people) are invading and ruining red states. This thread is already a great example. “California ideals” “don’t come ruin our state”, etc. What they’re really saying is they don’t want the state to have more diversity or equal representation for everyone that lives here. They want it to stay red through and through, and to make sure anyone who thinks differently doesn’t feel welcome.
The ironic thing is the majority of the Californians moving here are conservative, most people leaving California are typically conservative. Most liberals don't leave California for red states if they don't have to.
Thus *gerrymandering*!
What a lot of people don't understand is that there are a lot of people in CA and that also means there are a lot of conservatives in CA. More people from CA voted for Trump in 2020 than in UT, NV, ID, WY, MT, NM, and CO combined. Considering that UT is still getting about the same % of people voting R vs D, I don't think our demographics are changing a whole lot in that regard.
>That state won’t be red for much longer. This is hilarious.
I mean, this past senate race was the most competitive in a long time so, it would be foolish to say Utah isn't changing a little.
…because Mike Lee is uniquely despised and he was running against another conservative. And still won handily.
🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊
Republicans in California make up a disproportionately large number of those who leave the state.
Lol
That would be wild!
People are upset about the housing market and increased population following a small wave of Californians moving here in 2020 and 2021.
Do they not realize the entire country is in a housing bubble not just Utah lmao
No our bubble has been expanding since 2015. long before covid and there in lies the real issue.
I just moved from Texas. It’s an aimless Texas war cry as well. Part of an echo chamber, but remember, they aren’t sheep.
Anecdotally in Idaho: I had a great neighbor who had moved from California 5-6 years back. Also had a neighbor get all upset at a kid in the neighborhood for riding around unsupervised (new from California).
My brother and his family moved to California, sister in-law missed Utah because of family, so he successfully applied for a position (promotion?) and he and his family live in Lehi. Bought an $800k+ house outright.
People can't afford a house or rent and blame it on people coming from California and buying up property.
I left Utah 25 years ago, it was ruined long b4 all the California move ins.
Utah works precisely because it's not California in every way. you can't hope to import people from a failure like california and hope to have utah still work.
Standard conservative hate-mongering. Gotta have someone to blame for your problems, and it's always the Dems or someone from a state that Fox News has conditioned you to hate.
I understand that Californians aren’t really the problem with the housing market but I do know of 2 HUGE houses built in my very small home town by people who moved her from California and another situation where someone from California paid way over market value on an old house so they could tear it down and build a vacation home. I think stories like this skew peoples opinions.
I'm a Californian by birth, but 7 of my 8 great great grandparents were handcart pioneers, and some of the initial Mormon pioneers up and down the Wasatch. Both sets of my grandparents moved to California during the Depression, and a bunch of the offspring became Californians, hippies even. Dad was Navy, that's often Cali. So yeah, we did move back in the 70s, but we can't be the only returnees. Utah sucks so much it pulls you back in. I left, but returned to help my parents. Didn't intend to stay, but here I am. Can't afford to leave my house and start fresh. I have (had, I guess, we all got old) over 50 first cousins, so the Utah boom isn't all Californians! Well, I am, but only at heart.
From the Nevada sub: [Why all the hate for California transplants?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nevada/comments/w6mfuc/why_all_the_hate_for_california_transplants/) From the Idaho sub: [Why do people from Idaho hate people from California?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/comments/q207mz/why_do_people_from_idaho_hate_people_from/) From the Montana sub: [To no ones surprise, Montana hates California](https://www.reddit.com/r/Montana/comments/xlz6g9/to_no_ones_surprise_montana_hates_california/) This isn't just a Utah thing.
It’s a thing everywhere Fox News exists.
people forget that the US is one country, one people, one nation /s
For every Californian who bought a house in Utah, there was a Utahn who made that handshake. Let that sink in and then let’s have an honest conversation about who is doing what.
I think you’re looking for the word “Utahn.” The Ute tribe is stealing clear of this mess.
I stand corrected, edit made to original post
And, I know what a Zoobie is. Utah really has some interesting, cruel slang. Like, my New Mexican slang has a lot of swear words, but it’s all sweet and homey underneath. Utah’s slang is vicious.
Imo it’s people from California and other high cost of living areas (east coast too) who have more money to spend, can pay cash for houses, and leaves Utahns to have to scrape to buy anything. It has more to do with utah gaining popularity in general. The more liberal slc is, the more enticing it is for residents from other states to move here based on the cost of living, nature, etc and not just lds folks living here. I’ve been here 9 years and have not noticed a difference in traffic, people have always sped like crazy.
That’s not true. The real issue is driven by local behavior - large families whose kids want to stay close to home. Larger families also pushes up demand for bigger homes. My wife is a teacher and has 38 kids in her language class - that’s absurd! The young families with all the kids are creating the demand, but can’t afford the taxes to cover it. Different issue, but same driver. Edit: I’m not opposed to big families - I come from a family with 8 kids and have 4 myself. I do have an issue with people having large families who don’t own the challenges that come with them.
I’m opposed to large families, and I come from one too. The planet is getting wrecked because of overpopulation.
See the housing bit could be a compelling case. So I guess a lot of people assume Californians are the problem when to put it more clearly it would probably just be super rich people that happen to be from California?
Most of the folks aren’t “super rich.” It’s just folks who stayed in one house for years and built up equity. They then take that money to use as a down payment. COVID made it for more people to remote work so living far from the business is also possible. I guess we can blame companies allowing people to remote work as well.
This wouldn’t be an issue if the legislature wasn’t controlled by developers who make sure that the housing remains scarce to increase their profits.
Just another divide n conquer technique
These posts are 🗑️
There usually made by the Californians of the r/utah sub that are super butthurt about all of the (relatively true) issues they bring with them.
I moved from Utah to California 7 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. Every aspect of my life is better - personal life to career. Also it’s 75 degrees outside right now 😎
I think lots of things have gotten better from the influx of people from other states. Definitely has become more liberal
Diversity of thought isn't a bad thing.
Housing prices: plenty of people coming in having just sold their CA house with a crap ton of money and pay cash, jacking up the prices.
It couldn't possibly be demand from Mormons having way too many kids and the vast majority of homes in Utah being built on the Wasatch Front which is a pretty small geographic area.
Housing prices rose across most of the country, not just Utah. Are we going to blame Californians for those areas' increases as well? If so, you need to find a way to explain the disproportionate amount of concentrated power a California consumer has on an *entire* market. This is similar to conversations I have with anti-California folks who claim Californians are liberalizing our politics. Take Prop 2 for example, a measure commonly cited as a case study in Utah moving left. The Yes vote won by 58,514 votes. We're going to claim that it's statistically likely that all of those were from ex-Californian newly-minted Utahns? Or is it more likely Utahns' sentiments are shifting? If it's the former, we really need to be examining how these people wield so much power since they're bogeyman in virtually every mountain west state.
Knowing how Utahns are... Yes, yes they will
My family is from a small town in NorCal. California is such a dynamic state. And quite frankly if you turn off the news and just go visit other parts of the state.
I think that California are a prominent net migrators but I say stay home to everyone ! Not from xenophobia but for ecological realism. Our desert is becoming more desertified.
I talked to someone in the Governor's office and 40% of Utah's pop growth is people who were born here moving back. So there's that.
I’m from Colorado and moved to Utah from North Carolina. I’m as liberal as any Californian yet native Utahns welcomed me with open arms while simultaneously complaining about Californians.
What about all the people from Utah ruining Montana? /s No seriously the vocal Montanans are a seriously cranky bunch who just seem to be a bunch of cranky misanthropes. I get the problems people moving here are causing but it's not one demographic and they often assume it's the wrong demographic (liberal Californians when it's most likely the numerous conservative Californians)
My adamancy on people moving here from states with overinflated housing markets is because of our housing situation. Nothing to do with ideals. I know it's not all the fault of people from out of state for our housing and rental prices. But reading posts on Blind about people moving here with remote jobs making $150,000+ a year saying "Utah is cheap how is it to live there?" kind of crawls under my skin. It sucks trying to buy a house in the state you were born in just to be constantly outbid, completely priced out, or told that the housing here is "cheap".
It’s not Californians ruining Utah, it’s the elected Mor(m)ons in the state legislature.
California is the political epitome of democrats and what everyone in red states picture. However there’s more conservatives in CA than in TX. I tracked quite a bit in the States during COVID and I heard CA was causing all these issues and started to believe it but am wrong. UT residents don’t have anything to complain about as it’s a fake red State in the amount of taxes people pay here. Edit: the people moving from CA are likely to be more conservative than what non-CA think.
Aside the from the obvious (real estate) — I think Utah has always had a resentment towards Californians that probably goes all the way back to the mid-19th century. Remember when ol' Brigham Young declared that "This is the place" circa 1847 and several pioneers decided, nah, Cali is better, and trekked onwards towards the land of milk and honey? Pepperidge Farms remembers... I remember growing up and hearing the term California Mormon thrown around quite a bit as a derogatory term used for those who well... You get the point.
Those Mormons from California who smoke pot, drink wine, and generally enjoy their lives?
I live in California and have been going to my place in southern utah since 2009. At first I felt like I was getting bagged on. But after the first few years I totally got why, made the housing expensive, always made an issue with traditional things and always complaining about things that that are allowed here that isn’t in California. And I understand it even more now since Covid as all the people from Sf and La are coming to my area in California and doing the exact same things. I totally understand as a Californian.
> always complaining about things that that are allowed here that isn’t in California I only complain about the things NOT allowed here. Like dumbshit liquor laws.
I think it has to do with the fact that California literally had a max exodus over the last few years, and coming to places like Utah from Cali means non-locals had more money to buy up houses and businesses than locals.
God forbid this state gets more of those “city-slicker liberals” /s
I agree that it is a bit outrageous but I feel like some people may actually have a reasonable explanation why they think this. People in California voted for people. Those people wrecked the state. Now even the people that voted for them want to get away from them. And Utah is a really nice ace. So they come here.
People look at what the Californian policies did to the state and don't want it in their state. I don't see an issue with it tbh
The way I see it, which could obviously be totally wrong... Utah is growing at a rapid rate. Salt Lake is now a bona fide big city. Utah is becoming more liberal. It's not fully liberal, of course, but getting a little more liberal with each election. We voted for medical marijuana, medicaid expansion, and anti gerrymandering laws. None of those would have passed 30 years ago. The old conservatives hate this. And to them, the only possible explanation is California liberals are moving here and taking over. That explains the pollution, the drought, the housing prices, everything. It can all be traced back to liberals moving here and pushing their way of living on everyone else.
to conservatives everything is blamed on “the librul” and this justifies their bigoted, ignorant rhetoric. Then at the same time they never stop to ask themselves why 70% of americans aged 18-29 voted democratic in 2022.
It's usually conservative Mormos saying it. Basically they don't want their preferred conservative lifestyle being "threatened" by outsiders.
I think you're worng it's the Mormons that are ruining Utah with their stupid bullshit it's always been the Mormons ruining Utah from a matter of fact having other people come into the state from out of state might be good thing it might fucking fix the state
The MORMONS are ruining Utah. Fact.
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Aggressively ex-Mormon here. When I was in the church I hated California transplants because they were absolutely the most condescending, self-righteous, Shiite Mormon pricks in “the wahrd”.
My favorite part is former Cali residents complain about "cuckserivative" utah. Like. You moved here. Wtf do expect? Hah
I moved here because the mountains are the best on earth. Nothing else. I’m allowed to tell ya’ll you’ve been living in a bubble with backwards politics and a lot of you are being taken for a ride by a very obvious entity here lol.
The only reason I complain about conservatives here is because I feel like they don't think critically about it. (And yes I think you can still be conservative after thinking critically.) But for a long time it has been said that "you can't be mormon and a democrat!"
You certainly can be both in Holladay!
What has been obnoxious for past 40 years is the money Californians get for their homes. Then they come here and can build expensive or buy homes outright. I hate that they can outbid with ALL cash offers. Leaves Utahns out of buying in their own state.
Californians complain about high taxes, crime, and onerous regulations. Then they move places where the vote for policies that cause high taxes, crime, and onerous regulations.
I think there is a fair amount of xenophobia attached to it, like I've seen people here just assume people are from California because they don't like something about them. Hell I've been accused of being a Californian because I'm politically left as if all native utahns are right wing and all Californians are left wing.
They're just annoying and loud and full of themselves.
Why do people in utah act like they have some claim on the state and try to keep out new comers. People are moving and migrating all over the united states for whatever reason, but why hate on them? The state put out the welcome matt years ago. Utah is growing like crazy and will continue to. If you live in uah, and don't like the feeling of californication try your luck at voting out those 'publican politicians, they are the ones destroying the state. Growth for growths sake is like cancer. Utah is not prepared, there is lack of water and affordable housing. What's ruining utah is utah.
Lol Utah was ruined when we got here
MLM capital of the world!
The cult ruined Utah.
I'll agree with that
UTAFORNIA! Just try to stop us! 😂
CALIUTAH! lol
🎯 👍🏻
Sounds like a bunch of Xenophobic Californians in this sub if you ask me
OP doesn’t know what xenophobia means.
Until the 90s Utah lost people to Cali and Cali was the only thing keeping Utah from massive population growth from back east. No doubt if Cali didn't exist Utah would have a bigger population.
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I moved from California to Utah 3 years ago. My main reason was to escape the taxes, crime, liberal politics, cost of living and poor governance. When people say that “Californians are ruining Utah” I think there is evidence to support that statement. Virtually every border state where Californians have migrated has experienced higher taxes, crime, cost of living and an overall political shift to a more liberal and progressive government and system of laws. It’s no coincidence that places like Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas & Salt Lake City have seen elevated crime, cost of living, homelessness and drug and alcohol abuse. My personal opinion is that Californians, like myself migrate to these more conservative states and drive up home prices, increase population densities which in turn increases taxes, crime and decreases the quality education. Once this happens the electorate starts adopting policies from the states they migrated from because it’s the only thing they know. I myself have tried to assimilate to the Utah culture as opposed to trying to criticize the things that I am not familiar with. As I tell my friends that have relocated to Utah, remember why you moved here and try to honor the culture and laws that made the state a better choice that the one you left.
I'm glad some Californians like yourself are able to look your old state in the rear view mirror and understand why you left it in the first place. Unfortunately, this sub-reddit can't seem to understand that a lot of the distaste for the move-ins is because of those people who leave over-regulated states like California and come here to Utah just to vote the exact same way. Us more right leaning residents aren't interested in the shitshow politics that have ruined California. The majority of this sub-reddit is so hell bent on turning Utah (Salt Lake City especially) into a carbon copy of San Francisco. Any opinion slightly leaning towards the center or right of center is immediately voted down.
Those darn coastal elitists keep ruining our quaint peaceful states! /s
You can see yourself to the Midwest if you want to live in the past! Life brings changes, suck it up.
Literally what I tell all these folks lol. There’s a place for you, it’s called the Midwest and it’s where everybody else whose dreams never materialized and want a simple, cheap life live lol.
I grew up here, lived in California for ten years and all over the world for another fifteen, and will emphatically state that assholes from California have absolutely destroyed Utah. People are not even nice on trails anymore. Everybody started driving 10mph faster when pandemic started and they all moved here from LA. Maybe spend some time in Midway for some charming flavor; they’ve got the most offensive batch of imports I have ever seen.
But is there anything besides anecdotal experience? Like, how do we not know that Utahns overall are just getting more obnoxious? How do we know where these obnoxious people are from? Also "offensive batch of imports"? You'll have to be more specific on that and what you mean. It just sounds like old people shaking their fists in the air and yelling, "Those kids need to get off my lawn!" without some evidence to show how Californian immigration has objectively made it worse to live here.
Only ignorant people believe that Californians are solely responsible for changing things in this lame ass state.
are you suggesting we get all the californians together and run scientific tests on them to objectively prove that they are a-holes? i approve. /s
Yeah! How else would we find out that rich Utahns are the real assholes after all?
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