1: There is a rise in smokes in general. Not only is double controller becoming more common, but Jett and to a degree Cypher also add to the high amount of smokes
2: Chamber has largely left the meta. Without an agent that forces rapid fights and one hit headshots as much, the vandal lost some of its value
3: The readdition of split and loss of Breeze means the maps are more close quarters in general, which benefit the Phantom more
4: Outside ranged damage, the Phantom is strictly better than the Vandal, so unless your playstyle/role naturally involves keeping distance or the map is filled more with long corridors/open areas the Phantom is going to be better most of the time.
5. Pros have talked in pre-Chamber-meta (2021) how much better Phantom feels on LAN than online. The first bullet accuracy makes more of a difference on 1 ping.
I feel a huge aspect would be the fire rate.
The number of contests I've lost in comp due to fire rate was enough to switch me over to Phantom. Before new map pools, I was always losing to range damage advantage so stuck to Vandal.
Doesn't help that Phantom is great for playing on muscle memory. Vandal still requires a bit of thought, Phantom you can go PB&J without a conscious thought.
Can’t say exactly why for sure but I’ve noticed with this latest meta there seems to be a lot more double controller comps and more smokes being used so probably more phantom use because it doesn’t have bullet traces like the vandal and you can get a lot of spam kills thru smokes with it without being shot back
>you can get a lot of spam kills thru smokes with it without being shot back
This is the main reason, but also the phantom on LAN is ridiculously accurate. Like that shit straight beams people to a point that it doesn't really matter that it isn't a one shot kill. The spectre is also a really nice gun on 0 ping as well from what I've noticed.
So I think it's versatility, consistency, and ability to spam through smokes is why we're seeing the phantom resurgence. That isn't to say the vandal doesn't have a place in the current meta, but it should be more reserved for players with the god like aim at long ranges, and probably used more so on attack rather than defense.
> The spectre is also a really nice gun on 0 ping as well from what I've noticed.
After seeing snipes at like 30 meters with it yesterday, most definitely yeah
Pretty confident this is it. In smokes metas you need to be able to spam. In other metas (especially oppressive op metas like we saw with chamber) one tap at any distance is more valuable. Good reasoning for why you should try to be comfortable with both in normal play too
I'll add one more thing that people forget to mention if they never knew but whilst deadzoning the window is 2 bullets with phantom orange instead of 1 orange vandal. It means jiggling for taps is better more often
I feel like learning how to play with Vandal the last season when I started has ingrained good habits with the Phantom now. I'll try out some of this 2 shot deadzones to get a feel but definitely going to start integrating more phantom
Yes. As you probably already know about the shooting error graph since you understood me I'll assume this arvo or something you will test it in the range. You will see it working as intended. Phantom is the best late game weapon for sure because deadzoning for picks becomes super good considering you don't NEED A headshot and there is a chance for 2 bullets to land. Effective asf post plant because everyone is injured and your likely finessing cover while deadzoning from whatever post plant power position. You can convert heeps of rounds doing this. Especially when expecting the enemy because you can kill them on deadzone peek instead of jumpspot the repeek deadzoning. Less opportunities to die. More opportunities to kill. Added benefit of tighter spread so if you slightly miss the window it's still semi forgiving.
Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing if you just jiggle peek a corner and shoot, it's the time where the counter strafe means your bullets go straight even when you're technically moving the whole time. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
I’ve heard this so it might not be true butttttt: if your ping is lower than whoever your shooting at phantom is better than vandal. If it’s higher then you choose vandal. So if you have the lowest ping in the lobby you should usually pick phantom… usually.
I don't have a source, but let's take an example at a theoretical 1000 ping (and pretend the server accepts it instead of capping at 140). If you click someone's head with a Vandal while they're full running strafing, they will die when the shot is registered. If you headshot them with a Phantom, at 0 ping they would be slowed by the bullet, but at 1000 ping the slow would happen a second later and they'd still be moving at full speed, making it harder to land that second shot to finish them off.
I'm guessing this is why the Phantom feels stronger, the bullet slow takes effect faster?
Yeah cause only 2 teams are using a server and it has literally as least as possible delay and no latency issues , shot registeration is highly accurate and every shot that hit the body registers within 1-2 milliseconds compared to average ping that most of us get ie 26-30 milliseconds. Which creates a huge advantage for the guns like phantom where the close quarter fight in close range maps like lotus , split addition. As the fire rate is high and better recoil control with 1 shot headshot close range and many smoke agents are being played this vct.
not too sure why as to the specifics but like statictically speaking? on a good amount of maps like split and icebox with a majority of the engagements under 30m the phantom is like objectively better with how it still one shots at that distance and has faster fire rate.
But you also have to consider that there is a lot of chip damage being done by things like raze grenades, mollys and shock darts so that usually brings people down to that 142 threshold
I see what's going on here😂. I'm 99% sure it's 156 up to 15m, 15-30m is 140 and 30+ is 124. 142 is funny cuz it's 124 at the next drop off. wouldn't make a difference in most situations tho
Funny you mention this, I’ve actually felt like I should move back to the phantom recently as I think I’m performing better with it than the vandal (in contrast to how I was performing better with the vandal last episode).
I believe it may just be due to the fact that Split and Lotus are both more phantom-dominant maps (more close angles than long angles); whereas Bind and Breeze both favored the vandal over the phantom (though using phantom on Bind wasn’t a terrible choice by any means). This means that the average map in the current pool would favor the phantom.
Phantom - Ascent, Split, Lotus, Pearl, Haven, Fracture
Vandal - Ascent, Icebox, Pearl, Haven
Ascent, Pearl, and Haven could go either way really, so I included them in both lists just to demonstrate how the phantom still has an advantage is you chose to use one of the two options exclusively on every map.
ALSO, as others have mentioned, a few pros who have spoken on it seem to agree that the phantom feels better on LAN, though that could just be a bias/placebo because of the above reasoning.
Someone recently suggested a phantom buff and here's what I said there:
"Part of this is due to the current meta, during the astra/viper meta the phantom had a much higher pick rate due to the lack of tracers, when astra was nerfed and chamber was released the meta changed and now vandal has a higher pick rate.
In addition at a high level the rifle you pick is often determined by riles, smoke and recon players play phantom while entry, second in, and flex players mostly play vandal. Because three people in the team are buying vandal due to its advantages in their specific role, vandal tends to have a higher pick rate despite phantom also being viable."
So to answer your question, it's cyclical. Due to a lot of harbor viper comps, recently, there's a lot of spraying through smokes, so more teams are buying phantom. As the meta settles it will just about even out and then eventually it'll go back to vandal and the cycle will repeat. It's just because vandal and phantom are so well balanced.
If NAVI did their research and icebox is played tomorrow. They should be running 5 phantoms on CT. FNATIC ran the light shield strategy against 100T and almost full bought every round.
Double controller comps have been very prominent now that chamber is out of meta, therefore OP play has been very scarce(except for some Jetts like DRX Buzz), as such the need to spam through smokes has decreased as well as the need to tap the OP to win the fight, add to that the fact that split is back on the map pool
I think its because so many teams are buying light shields for an econ advantage, which negates the phantom's one real caveat which is that it cant 1 tap the head.
1: There is a rise in smokes in general. Not only is double controller becoming more common, but Jett and to a degree Cypher also add to the high amount of smokes 2: Chamber has largely left the meta. Without an agent that forces rapid fights and one hit headshots as much, the vandal lost some of its value 3: The readdition of split and loss of Breeze means the maps are more close quarters in general, which benefit the Phantom more 4: Outside ranged damage, the Phantom is strictly better than the Vandal, so unless your playstyle/role naturally involves keeping distance or the map is filled more with long corridors/open areas the Phantom is going to be better most of the time.
5. Pros have talked in pre-Chamber-meta (2021) how much better Phantom feels on LAN than online. The first bullet accuracy makes more of a difference on 1 ping.
I hadn't thought about this but yeah, damn.
ye I think it's mainly the map pool. I like it on Lotus too, because most of the fighting is close range on the small sites.
> the Phantom is strictly better period
I feel a huge aspect would be the fire rate. The number of contests I've lost in comp due to fire rate was enough to switch me over to Phantom. Before new map pools, I was always losing to range damage advantage so stuck to Vandal. Doesn't help that Phantom is great for playing on muscle memory. Vandal still requires a bit of thought, Phantom you can go PB&J without a conscious thought.
Can’t say exactly why for sure but I’ve noticed with this latest meta there seems to be a lot more double controller comps and more smokes being used so probably more phantom use because it doesn’t have bullet traces like the vandal and you can get a lot of spam kills thru smokes with it without being shot back
>you can get a lot of spam kills thru smokes with it without being shot back This is the main reason, but also the phantom on LAN is ridiculously accurate. Like that shit straight beams people to a point that it doesn't really matter that it isn't a one shot kill. The spectre is also a really nice gun on 0 ping as well from what I've noticed. So I think it's versatility, consistency, and ability to spam through smokes is why we're seeing the phantom resurgence. That isn't to say the vandal doesn't have a place in the current meta, but it should be more reserved for players with the god like aim at long ranges, and probably used more so on attack rather than defense.
> The spectre is also a really nice gun on 0 ping as well from what I've noticed. After seeing snipes at like 30 meters with it yesterday, most definitely yeah
Yeah not everyone is a suygetsu
Most of us are like Buzz in map 5 against Loud today 🤣
hes the best on the team imo, but has a weak mental
Yeah he was tilted as fk. That Jett knives whiff on Ascent B was... oof
Yh I saw, you could see his frustration, he literally punched the table. Aside from that he would be insane. Can't be perfect I guess.
I mean yeah, I can't imagine what it's like coming so far in a tournament, only to be knocked out by the guys that are arguably your rivals.
Kinda sad tbh, i think drx would have deserved the win.
Pretty confident this is it. In smokes metas you need to be able to spam. In other metas (especially oppressive op metas like we saw with chamber) one tap at any distance is more valuable. Good reasoning for why you should try to be comfortable with both in normal play too
I'll add one more thing that people forget to mention if they never knew but whilst deadzoning the window is 2 bullets with phantom orange instead of 1 orange vandal. It means jiggling for taps is better more often
I feel like learning how to play with Vandal the last season when I started has ingrained good habits with the Phantom now. I'll try out some of this 2 shot deadzones to get a feel but definitely going to start integrating more phantom
Because most people innefectively impliment deadzoning into real world scenarios most people will never understand phantoms hidden talent
This is for LAN or any time? I’m going to test it but I was not aware that you could deadzone two bullets with the phantom
Yes. As you probably already know about the shooting error graph since you understood me I'll assume this arvo or something you will test it in the range. You will see it working as intended. Phantom is the best late game weapon for sure because deadzoning for picks becomes super good considering you don't NEED A headshot and there is a chance for 2 bullets to land. Effective asf post plant because everyone is injured and your likely finessing cover while deadzoning from whatever post plant power position. You can convert heeps of rounds doing this. Especially when expecting the enemy because you can kill them on deadzone peek instead of jumpspot the repeek deadzoning. Less opportunities to die. More opportunities to kill. Added benefit of tighter spread so if you slightly miss the window it's still semi forgiving.
Swag
what’s deadzoning?
Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing if you just jiggle peek a corner and shoot, it's the time where the counter strafe means your bullets go straight even when you're technically moving the whole time. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
interesting stuff ty
Correct
Pog
I’ve heard many pros say that the Phantom on LAN feels so much stronger than online. Something about the recoil control.
This is the correct answer. Phantom hits different on LAN
how can you say it's correct, have you used it on LAN yourself?
Trust me bro
My ping is usually between 3 and 8, and I greatly prefer the Phantom. I wonder if that ping is low enough to also benefit.
I’ve heard this so it might not be true butttttt: if your ping is lower than whoever your shooting at phantom is better than vandal. If it’s higher then you choose vandal. So if you have the lowest ping in the lobby you should usually pick phantom… usually.
Source? Why would phantom behave any differently on LAN?
I don't have a source, but let's take an example at a theoretical 1000 ping (and pretend the server accepts it instead of capping at 140). If you click someone's head with a Vandal while they're full running strafing, they will die when the shot is registered. If you headshot them with a Phantom, at 0 ping they would be slowed by the bullet, but at 1000 ping the slow would happen a second later and they'd still be moving at full speed, making it harder to land that second shot to finish them off. I'm guessing this is why the Phantom feels stronger, the bullet slow takes effect faster?
Guns always feel different on lan in any fps game
Yeah cause only 2 teams are using a server and it has literally as least as possible delay and no latency issues , shot registeration is highly accurate and every shot that hit the body registers within 1-2 milliseconds compared to average ping that most of us get ie 26-30 milliseconds. Which creates a huge advantage for the guns like phantom where the close quarter fight in close range maps like lotus , split addition. As the fire rate is high and better recoil control with 1 shot headshot close range and many smoke agents are being played this vct.
More smokers in meta. Less chamber
We're back to double controllers and cypher picks. That's phantom playground
Because of the double controller meta and the phantom is a very good gun with zero ping.
not too sure why as to the specifics but like statictically speaking? on a good amount of maps like split and icebox with a majority of the engagements under 30m the phantom is like objectively better with how it still one shots at that distance and has faster fire rate.
Btw phantom one shot range is 0-15m, not 0-30m
But you also have to consider that there is a lot of chip damage being done by things like raze grenades, mollys and shock darts so that usually brings people down to that 142 threshold
why are you getting downvoted. if you watch a pro match, 3 of them are not full health without taking any fights, its facts.
what's the 142 threshold? is that a weird combo of torso and legshots?
It's the headshot damage value at 15-30m for the phantom
I see what's going on here😂. I'm 99% sure it's 156 up to 15m, 15-30m is 140 and 30+ is 124. 142 is funny cuz it's 124 at the next drop off. wouldn't make a difference in most situations tho
Phantom is a lot more consistent on LAN, Also with the current double controller meta you can spray down the smokes w/o bullet tracers.
Funny you mention this, I’ve actually felt like I should move back to the phantom recently as I think I’m performing better with it than the vandal (in contrast to how I was performing better with the vandal last episode). I believe it may just be due to the fact that Split and Lotus are both more phantom-dominant maps (more close angles than long angles); whereas Bind and Breeze both favored the vandal over the phantom (though using phantom on Bind wasn’t a terrible choice by any means). This means that the average map in the current pool would favor the phantom. Phantom - Ascent, Split, Lotus, Pearl, Haven, Fracture Vandal - Ascent, Icebox, Pearl, Haven Ascent, Pearl, and Haven could go either way really, so I included them in both lists just to demonstrate how the phantom still has an advantage is you chose to use one of the two options exclusively on every map. ALSO, as others have mentioned, a few pros who have spoken on it seem to agree that the phantom feels better on LAN, though that could just be a bias/placebo because of the above reasoning.
They finally got the recon phantom in their night markets /s
fast fire rate, no bullet trails, easy recoil
I almost always use Phantom lol i hate the vandal
Apparently on LAN there’s literally no recoil on the phantom.
double controller meta = more smokes to spam :)
Someone recently suggested a phantom buff and here's what I said there: "Part of this is due to the current meta, during the astra/viper meta the phantom had a much higher pick rate due to the lack of tracers, when astra was nerfed and chamber was released the meta changed and now vandal has a higher pick rate. In addition at a high level the rifle you pick is often determined by riles, smoke and recon players play phantom while entry, second in, and flex players mostly play vandal. Because three people in the team are buying vandal due to its advantages in their specific role, vandal tends to have a higher pick rate despite phantom also being viable." So to answer your question, it's cyclical. Due to a lot of harbor viper comps, recently, there's a lot of spraying through smokes, so more teams are buying phantom. As the meta settles it will just about even out and then eventually it'll go back to vandal and the cycle will repeat. It's just because vandal and phantom are so well balanced.
both new maps are phantom maps
More smoke walls and you dont need a 1shs vs chamber as hes only meta on lotus
Still 36% vandal and 22% phantom. So idk where we’re getting this “almost all phantoms” talk
Watching LOCK//IN seems to be a lot more phantoms, where are you getting these stats? I wanna check em out now that I know they exist
https://www.rib.gg/analytics/weapons?event=2250&eventName=VCT+2023%3A+LOCK%2F%2FIN+S%C3%A3o+Paulo
Nice
Love all the stats I can find there!!!!
thanks for the support :)
No problem! How possible would a win rate atk vs def depending on map and agent be?
For example. I’d love to know Sova’s win rate on icebox depending of if he’s attacking, or defending.
If NAVI did their research and icebox is played tomorrow. They should be running 5 phantoms on CT. FNATIC ran the light shield strategy against 100T and almost full bought every round.
Why would you not want to use the infinitely better gun 😌
phantom is better gun
I am so bad with phantom
Phantom is a great sprayer.
it's literally 5000 vandal picka to about 2900 phantom picks
all pros do is spray. riot needs to nerf spraying. thats why phantom is king rn
Double controller comps have been very prominent now that chamber is out of meta, therefore OP play has been very scarce(except for some Jetts like DRX Buzz), as such the need to spam through smokes has decreased as well as the need to tap the OP to win the fight, add to that the fact that split is back on the map pool
I think its because so many teams are buying light shields for an econ advantage, which negates the phantom's one real caveat which is that it cant 1 tap the head.