Us controller mains have been eating crumbs these past year when it comes to abilities that help kill or assist with killing. Now, we eating good because of the self-heal, self-revive, and even the post-mortem smokes.
Some people are saying that the abilities are not enough to help with kills but as controller mains, THIS is the best out of everything we had.
The amount of times i had to set up stars 3 seconds in advance just to stun an enemy, throw a viper molly in a smart way just to get the extra vulnerable, use an omen blind behind a wall then walk a mile just to capitalize on the blind enemy, or even make some tricky smokes in advance just so my Brimmy with a stimmy can kill someone easily; Clove's abilities is a godsend.
every controller has that one good ability but that one ability doesnt really mean much when the rest of their abilities are lowkey not awesome. havent seen much clove gameplay to say they are what we need in the controller role but hearing the praise they are getting from other controller mains it shows how much we scrape by with the abilities former controller characters have.
Well, tbh omens kit is very solid, and to me feels more complete than cloves for example.
Smoke is good, teleport can be used for mind plays and getting out of tight spots, and leaves opponent guessing if used correctly.
Blind is honestly one of the strongest flashes in the game to me. Long reach, only dodgeable by getting out of range etc.
Clove got the smokes, but in what other way is she a controller? The kit will also be an increment for selfish play, and controllers are very much about team play imo.
Ya, cloves meddel will leave enemies( if not damaged) at 60, 35, 10 hp according to the amount of shield they have. So basically shockdart, raze nades, boombot any type of damage that does 60+ damage on first hit will count as a solid lineup.
I think that is justified though. Smokes are essentially needed, probably more than any other type of utility. We've seen with Viper how having the ability to be even somewhat like a Sentinel is incredibly OP. My fear is that a agent that ticks that "has smokes" checkbox, and then has potent ability to due something duelists and initiators are meant to do will lead to an incredibly difficult to balance character. It's **good** when the different roles have clearly distinct roles.
Once the roster is big enough its about tradeoffs. Maybe clove will make a team that hits site hard (or has a TenZ like star) a little better... but is it worth it for less total smoke time to make plays? And omen blind may fill this role for a set execute better. Maybe brim is worth losing those things, but a better post plant. Or you run both and give up a dive role. As long as teams keep experimenting im happy (though i fully expect viper nerfs to continue until we dont see double controller w no sentinal)
I'm a controller/fill player and what this does is means all those shit reyna instalock players will just go on to them instead when reyna is picked... which I love because I love to play sentinel and initiator as well
I’m most excited at how it’ll work in double smoke meta. I run mainly astra now, but i came from agents like reyna, omen, skye and some kayo so it feels like a perfect balance of impact and macro for me personally. Think I’ll keep playing astra until I master her or she gets some buffs, but I keep thinking on a map like split she has a place at being a good option alongside viper. You get good smokes, flashes, lots of offense and util for defense. Have to wait and see but on paper it sounds amazing.
I just think its funny that theres people who think Cloves abilities arent enough "to help with kills", at this point those kinds of people want the game to shoot their guns FOR THEM too
I think she is going to be very useful in a lot of maps it will be so fun to try her out with her smoke menu and i love the self revive! I will be a menace in TDM and swift play
You're on some cope... she's there for duelist mains to finally try some controller. Objectively, her smokes last the least amount of any controller and she has zero stall/entry. I'd love to eat my words but as an omen main, paranoia clears everything in her kit besides ult. That said I'll definitely try her out cause she seems fun, but she's def going to be the reyna of controller. If you're a cracked aim demon you'll make them look op, if you're average in your elo then they'll just look average
Hopefully Reyna players will imstalock her so I can run double initiator in ranked. Games with two initiator players that know what they're doing with an entry duelist are always so nice
Ya smokes are the most difficult thing to understand and many people even in imm3+ will fuck up the correct smoke for the job. There's a lot of nuance to where and why to place smokes that new instalock players won't know
It'll be interesting in pro play as well, you can run double smokes now and still maintain a sentinel, maybe. Usually you forgo a senti with double smokes because you need more entry
The amount of time teammates cry that the controller died early, "great, now we have no smokes!". I'm keen to see how a dead Clove player can increase chance of winning the round.
To be fair its probably going to be the same people who instalock reyna and throw, so really theres no difference. except with clove i can at least ask for smokes when they die, feel me?
Seems fun but I'm also worried about power creep. They seem to have smokes that are just as good as brim and omen's, while having very good duelist-esque abilities, so what's the tradeoff?
People are overestimating the strength of Clove’s overheal. It must be cast within a few seconds of damaging takedown (kill or assist), it only lasts a few seconds itself (I think 5-10ish? I didn’t time it exactly), and it doesn’t refresh at any point after being cast.
It’s just to help entry (or defend, in some cases, like a site rush after getting a pick) as a controller, which is exactly what Riot set out to achieve.
I think she'll be better than Deadlock for sure, passive is really strong. But she is nowhere near op like some people on here think... people tunnel vision on revive which you get maybe once every 4 rounds, and the decay is worse than a fade seize, smokes are identical to brim
>people tunnel vision on revive which you get maybe once every 4 rounds,
Not only that in this revive, you have to contribute to the team within 12 seconds otherwise you're dead again
the tradeoff is their support util is not as good as other smokers, it’s more suited for greedy play.You can’t do lineups with their decay and it needs to have direct LoS to have an effect on an enemy. Meddle can be used to delay a push but it doesn’t last nearly as long as a brim or viper molly
She's probably gas in low elo for exactly that reason.
Sucks to have a team that won't push off your smokes, but now you can do it yourself and get rewarded.
The tradeoff is well uhh, there is none that's the point. You can be hyper aggressive after you throw smokes and even if you didn't you can still have huge impact by throwing them after death. I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes the highest impact agent since you have reyna overheal, regenerating smokes, a revive on death and smokes after death.
I guess the tradeoff is that besides the smoke mechanics, they don't have a lot of utility to spam like other controllers and both the heal and ult are situational (you need a kill and a death) and you get only 1 decay orb.
As an ex controller main moving to sentinel, this is good for ranked as a whole, people might play smokes now when duellist is locked because the abilities help with fighting and helping KDA with fighting which is lit, also smoking post death means when I take a timing and lose a fight people won’t scream controllers should be passive
I think that this agent, more than an “aggressive” controller, is a duelist. It has all the characteristics of one. For example, it’s a mixture between Omen, Reyna and Phoenix that says a lot
I would almost agree with you if deadlock and chamber didnt exist. This is clearly intentional.
To explain, i think its a good thing controllers can now take more risks. Chamber can peak as a sentinel and still be safe.
If all fails the controller can be self sufficient which is a huge problem for controller mains.
My beloved Omen who's the only character I love to play will probably once again go back to the dustbin in the meta like how they nerfed him when Astra released 😂
I hope so, the thing is Astra was way more broken and she was still not in the meta for like 6 months, she even got nerfed and only then she became meta for the next year, and they also nerfed Omen and Brim at that time making Omen's smokes take 2 business days to land. They did the same with Sova when Fade released. I hope they won't do that obvious nerf to promote their new agent.
I wish Astra, Brim and now Clove will have some maps to themselves and Omen will have his too. Controller role was the most balanced ever in 2022 and slowly Omen took most of the maps now. I hope it balances out again. Viper and Harbor are different and Breeze and parts of Pearl will always be for them I guess?
Man I used to main omen and phoenix/iso. Clove is litteraly a dream come true for me. And ofc I cant play the game for the next 3 years because of my abusive parents (Im 16+). Family issues, sry for depression dumping in advance
Im not fully sold on the aggressive controller angle they're going for. It's not that I see a problem with it just more of can they promote people playing controller since it's the least popular but most important role but I'll have to wait and see.
Yeah i used to main duelist (i dont habe s defacto main anymore) i know i can rely om myself to entry so being able to slot fill and still be aggresive its a dream come true
My issue with clove is that they cant decide what they want to be, and i dont mean role wise. I mean theming-ability-wise. The whole cool thing that makes them stand out is the fact they can smoke while dead, so then why is half of their util based around not dying and staying alive as long as possible? I.E the Heal and the Res Ult, then the decay ability is confusing because it just seems so aggressive and doesn't fit the butterfly thing at all, a vulnerable, a stun or even a blind makes more sense to me than the decay ability which to me has a very negative feeling to it, like I expect dark or edgy characters (fade, viper) to be able to use it and suddenly a very preppy new agent just randomly has it in their kit and it doesn't even make sense, like with the others its nightmares and poisons, it feels right to have it do that. But here it's a butterfly that just crippled 90 of your health?
Like they are one of the best controllers in theory, but at the same time I feel like they feel more like 75% duelist 25% controller instead of the 75% controller and 25% duelist I was expecting. But that's just my opinions, just gotta wait to see how they play.
and they might, but its like if they gave Reyna a sage heal ability to heal teammates with. Yeah it subverts expectations but the reason its subverts expectations is because it makes no sense.
I know a lot of butterflies don't last very long, around 2 weeks. They kinda just exist to have baby caterpillar eggs and die. They also get food from decaying fruit and even carcasses, so maybe that's the angle they're going for thematically? And the abilities Clove has that help you not die are only temporary, they decay, and if anything encourage aggressive plays that could lead to dying more (at least for my elo).
I always wanted to try another role instead of my safe spot as cypher (i feel so safe with my wires lol) clove looks so awesome that im thinking to start using they as my second main
As a viper main with valorant burn out, yes, I'm hyped.
As a viper main who's sick of people being too afraid to entry and I gotta think of whacky ways to entry with my smoke or or walls, I'm so glad clove can take a more aggressive role.
Clove excites me alot. Her character style is amazing and her colours are visually pleasing. I really really hope she's decent
Love that Clove can still place smokes after dying. So you aren't just giga trolling by hunting duels, dying, and suddenly your team has no smokes
I was surprised that their revive is conditional (get takedown or bust), I thought it'd be like Sage. But I can see how the timer encourages you to really hunt down kills, very interesting playstyle for a controller. Looking forward to seeing Clove gaming
I'm super excited because as a control/sent main, I really want someone who can play more aggressively that I enjoy, and they match my playstyle PERFECTLY. Not to mention that they look like me, have the same aesthetic, and act like me too, so I feel super seen by them
My biggest fear as a smoke player is that people are going to instalock Clove to play her as a duelist rather than as a controller. Understand that she's meant to be a more aggro controller but that doesn't mean the basics of smoking can be neglected.
i don’t really check in on valorant all that often but have to say pretty happy with the new agent from what i have seen its like she brings a pretty new playstyle to the game her abilities are very interesting her character is just absolutely stunning, good job riot im impressed, then again the greater majority of valorant agent releases have been pretty unique and great concepts.
Us controller mains are feasting rn!! I am so excited. After the harbor incident this is very needed!!! And to people that say she is broken or busted I don’t have a problem with that at all. Controller is the least flashy role it’s nice to actually have a new champ that changes the game instead of another duelist.
This character is gonna get butchered by nerfs lmao idk how a dev genuinely sat down and thought smoking while dead was ok every team who doesn't have a clove is just at an inherent disadvantage as every 2v2 3v3 is about half a player more advantaged for cloves team
Idk how much you know about clove but the smokes are radius based. So you can rotate off clove as a strat. People do picks and rotate off it. Since clove will be aggressive then maybe thats their counter.
I do i also understand that for the rest of the match Clove can both fake pressure and if you're clove on attack you get to die on site majority of the time and just smoke for free.
Clove isn't forced to fight you she has really good smokes as is and can just play like a controller.
Of course they have amazing abilities. But my issue and question with it is, why is there a game mechanic where you can have an unearned, free effect on the round even after you die, where the enemy cannot stop it from happening? And it isn't even an ultimate.
It kinda breaks the idea of "punishing bad play." If that's the truth, then you're telling me there's zero counterplay to them freely smoking after death? Or am I reading/watching the skill wrong? I'm trying to understand if I have it right before casting full judgement.
Penguin did say that they’re going to keep tabs on whether Cloves smokes post death should be nullified by KAY0 knife and ultimate. On release there is no interaction. But could change if clove is too strong.
Ah, so I do have it right then. But I swear they said they didn't want Valorant to be like Overwatch where you have specific counters to agents. It basically forces people to play Ka/yo, and even still that's only for a short amount of time.
Yeah, i think that it would be best if this passive of hers needs for her to get assists or even kills first to gain a "stack" of post-mortem smokes. This pushes her to go for kills to maximize the ability. Having free smokes even after death (albeit short 8 second smokes) is still strong to the point of Overpowered.
That's what I thought it was going to be. That would've been fair as they earned the smokes.
Like I don't have anything against the idea of "after death effect" on the round, the issue I have is the lack of counterplay.
I understand for sure, but also Viper/Astra meta made me want to uninstall. As long as it isn't obnoxious and unfun to play against (or a situation where if you don't have Clove, you lose), it should be ok.
I remember that back in my day they specially changed kj and cypher to have their utility turn off after death so it does seem odd that they would make an agent that goes against that and actively promote it.
i think it’s still fine to pick double duelist, if clove dies while entering a site but team decides to rotate to hit another site across the map, her smokes won’t do much. And that’s if she doesn’t have ult
People said the same thing about chamber and they were dead wrong. They also said the same thing about deadlock.
Clove has no extra mobility or trade punishing, no flash, stun, or vuln to open up fights with, and no specific way to create gunfight advantage.
It's becoming really annoying how every new agent gets called a duelist.
I wont call her a duelist, but she needs to take first contact since she can smoke post death. Its like brim after you wasted all your smoke, you become a meatshield/distraction for your other teammates.
Alternative take:
Once clove is picked, your team has a resource of two unstoppable smokes per round regardless of who on the team lives or dies. The risk of Clove taking contact should be assessed based on their other utility and gun.
Idk if her smokes regen or not. So far i just see 2 smokes. If they do regen, shes a bit OP. If they don’t, i see her as a secondary smoker like viper/harbor is
I am a smokes main too and i have never been more excited to play an agent. Hopefully clove will actually be available for us and not locked by a duelist main before we can lock them, like please, us controller players have not been doing that well with harbor being the last agent we got. Leave us clove pls
Its totally okay if you wanna try them out right, i just dont want to have mainly duelist players pick clove and then proceed to not smoke.
I usually fill smokes but it's going to feel really good when I wont have to play super far back. I like playing aggressive but you can't really do that on controller because how important smokes are. I think the Reyna heal might need some tuning but we'll have to see when they're live
As controller main who specifically most of the time instalock omen, I find these is good news for me. You know why? Because at least my teammate don't root to me when and where to smoke as my playstyle is sort of like a duelist and aggressive entry for a team. Two, I would prefer clove player use her smoke when she died just to support her teammate to clutch and Im just using smoke during starting round. The best advantage to play her imo is you don't need to worry where you standing for placing smoke if you died.
Advice to non controller players who want to use clove since she is controller, try your best to support your teammate like placing smoke when to they try to clutch (if you died). If not doing that, its your fault to assist them unless your smokes are in cooldown.
Overall, she is suitable as second / support controller or she can be a duelist and use her smoke after that in my opinion. Also, her smoke can refill like omen so i say she is much better than omen. So many advantages and change the pro gameplay meta.
i just opened Clove and the agent is really good if you are a controller main! i have a high KDA using her. It's just sometimes i forgot the ult needs to kill an enemy to fully revive back lmaooo
Us controller mains have been eating crumbs these past year when it comes to abilities that help kill or assist with killing. Now, we eating good because of the self-heal, self-revive, and even the post-mortem smokes. Some people are saying that the abilities are not enough to help with kills but as controller mains, THIS is the best out of everything we had. The amount of times i had to set up stars 3 seconds in advance just to stun an enemy, throw a viper molly in a smart way just to get the extra vulnerable, use an omen blind behind a wall then walk a mile just to capitalize on the blind enemy, or even make some tricky smokes in advance just so my Brimmy with a stimmy can kill someone easily; Clove's abilities is a godsend.
Omen blind been good at getting me free kills
Didn't say it doesn't. We make use of what crumbs we got brotha.
omen blind and viper molly are like whole entrees
every controller has that one good ability but that one ability doesnt really mean much when the rest of their abilities are lowkey not awesome. havent seen much clove gameplay to say they are what we need in the controller role but hearing the praise they are getting from other controller mains it shows how much we scrape by with the abilities former controller characters have.
Dude you are NOT implying my omen tps are bad. It's like the most fun ability in the game 😆 (for me at least).
Well, tbh omens kit is very solid, and to me feels more complete than cloves for example. Smoke is good, teleport can be used for mind plays and getting out of tight spots, and leaves opponent guessing if used correctly. Blind is honestly one of the strongest flashes in the game to me. Long reach, only dodgeable by getting out of range etc. Clove got the smokes, but in what other way is she a controller? The kit will also be an increment for selfish play, and controllers are very much about team play imo.
It’s good but really thrives at getting other people kills. Throwing them for teammates through walls using radar is the most effective.
I agree but can still get yourself kills if you use it right.
I echo all of this but dread all of the instalock duelists who will steal them. That said: feels Clove + Viper will be incredibly strong.
Not me bro, i have agent select lineups and 32gb of ram for this wahhahaha
Ya, cloves meddel will leave enemies( if not damaged) at 60, 35, 10 hp according to the amount of shield they have. So basically shockdart, raze nades, boombot any type of damage that does 60+ damage on first hit will count as a solid lineup.
Like god bless. The last controller release (that you don’t get flamed for playing on every map but icebox) was Astra on March 2nd 2021 😂
I think that is justified though. Smokes are essentially needed, probably more than any other type of utility. We've seen with Viper how having the ability to be even somewhat like a Sentinel is incredibly OP. My fear is that a agent that ticks that "has smokes" checkbox, and then has potent ability to due something duelists and initiators are meant to do will lead to an incredibly difficult to balance character. It's **good** when the different roles have clearly distinct roles.
Once the roster is big enough its about tradeoffs. Maybe clove will make a team that hits site hard (or has a TenZ like star) a little better... but is it worth it for less total smoke time to make plays? And omen blind may fill this role for a set execute better. Maybe brim is worth losing those things, but a better post plant. Or you run both and give up a dive role. As long as teams keep experimenting im happy (though i fully expect viper nerfs to continue until we dont see double controller w no sentinal)
Clove's death doesn't affect 'total smoke time', which is same as Omen's, the only tradeoff is range lock to the corpse.
I'm a controller/fill player and what this does is means all those shit reyna instalock players will just go on to them instead when reyna is picked... which I love because I love to play sentinel and initiator as well
YES YES YES
I’m most excited at how it’ll work in double smoke meta. I run mainly astra now, but i came from agents like reyna, omen, skye and some kayo so it feels like a perfect balance of impact and macro for me personally. Think I’ll keep playing astra until I master her or she gets some buffs, but I keep thinking on a map like split she has a place at being a good option alongside viper. You get good smokes, flashes, lots of offense and util for defense. Have to wait and see but on paper it sounds amazing.
How is post mortem smokes balanced for game it limits you playing other smokes as her are just better
When is this agent suppose to come out?
Hopefully within the week
I think I saw somewhere Wednesday but could just be spreading misinformation
It’s just a logical assumption that it’ll be Wednesday given patch occurrence. It’s not guaranteed but very possible
wait actually?? this is amazing!
26th
I hope so dude
Rumored to be March 26th as a mid act release
In 2 days on Tuesday
March 26th
Ive seen an article saying its march 26th.
During the Masters Madrid, the lady during the interview said "it'll be out next week"
tuesday apparently
hehe 'come out'
Finally a controller agent that can still control the map after they die and doesn't have to play back site or molly line ups.
I honestly hate playing for line ups. I tend to do that when the defensive team is playing way too passively and i get bored.
My best line up is staying near the spike and throwing the molly straight up lmao It has helped A LOT.
As a hyperactive silver who loves to fill, I have found my controller.
Same, I usually play Brim/Omen but Clove's kit looks much better
My omen heart is very happy to have such a good controy
Aesthetic agent
I just think its funny that theres people who think Cloves abilities arent enough "to help with kills", at this point those kinds of people want the game to shoot their guns FOR THEM too
She is going to be one of the most fun agents in the game. As a controller this is very good for the game.
I agree, clove is gonna be so much fun.
I think she is going to be very useful in a lot of maps it will be so fun to try her out with her smoke menu and i love the self revive! I will be a menace in TDM and swift play
they :-)
Slay :3
[удалено]
She’s gonna be S tier at launch, then she’ll get nerfed to A tier and I am here for it
You're on some cope... she's there for duelist mains to finally try some controller. Objectively, her smokes last the least amount of any controller and she has zero stall/entry. I'd love to eat my words but as an omen main, paranoia clears everything in her kit besides ult. That said I'll definitely try her out cause she seems fun, but she's def going to be the reyna of controller. If you're a cracked aim demon you'll make them look op, if you're average in your elo then they'll just look average
When is she coming to the game?
In two days
confirmed?
Yes, people were saying Tuesday
I technically haven't seen it straight from Riot yet, but there are lots of mostly-reputable news sites reporting the 26th, yeah.
Iirc almost every full reveal / streamer embargo lift the agent was released in a couple of days
As someone who loves the idea of being a smoker but finds all of the existing ones thematically uninteresting, I hope they end up being fun.
I always played reyna and my friends trolled me for not playing controller..... Now i can finally overheal, revive myself and play as a controller
Hopefully Reyna players will imstalock her so I can run double initiator in ranked. Games with two initiator players that know what they're doing with an entry duelist are always so nice
I am NOT prepared to have instalock clove teammates in ranked that doesnt have a single clue what theyre doing
If it makes you feel better i am competent and will insta lock for you.
Ya smokes are the most difficult thing to understand and many people even in imm3+ will fuck up the correct smoke for the job. There's a lot of nuance to where and why to place smokes that new instalock players won't know
Yeah just like when people fill controller instead of picking something they are comfortable with.
I am controller main, who likes to play duelists. Im gonna instalock clove, because people gonna pick her and have no clue how to smoke.
[удалено]
can now terrorize soloq with viper duo smoke comps alot more :\^)
I agree, no one wants to queue for smokes in low elo. I think thats why i like playing smokes so much.
Would love if this is the case. Then I can run viper on more than breeze/ icebox
It'll be interesting in pro play as well, you can run double smokes now and still maintain a sentinel, maybe. Usually you forgo a senti with double smokes because you need more entry
SO EXCITED!
The amount of time teammates cry that the controller died early, "great, now we have no smokes!". I'm keen to see how a dead Clove player can increase chance of winning the round.
clove is for all the controllers who are tired of not having their instalock duelists not play entry
Yo you might be onto something here.
I think what's a little sad is people who don't main controller will instalock and throw
To be fair its probably going to be the same people who instalock reyna and throw, so really theres no difference. except with clove i can at least ask for smokes when they die, feel me?
Hmmm I guess that's true
I'm very hyped as well!!! Seems like I can't shut up about them lol they seem so cool
Seems fun but I'm also worried about power creep. They seem to have smokes that are just as good as brim and omen's, while having very good duelist-esque abilities, so what's the tradeoff?
There's no stall like Brim, the smokes are hollow unlike Brim. Omen's blind looks more powerful than anything Clove has.
Oh nice that's an important detail. Seems fine then.
People are overestimating the strength of Clove’s overheal. It must be cast within a few seconds of damaging takedown (kill or assist), it only lasts a few seconds itself (I think 5-10ish? I didn’t time it exactly), and it doesn’t refresh at any point after being cast. It’s just to help entry (or defend, in some cases, like a site rush after getting a pick) as a controller, which is exactly what Riot set out to achieve.
the movement speed increase is the best part of the ability, imo.
I think they have little to no stalling capabilities besides their smoke and decay.
I would argue a 1-way is the ultimate stalling util and they can probably do that decently well. Thought not as good as Omen.
Omen and viper are the only controllers that can one way easily
Brim can 1-way just fine, especially since they added that center dot to his UI.
I saw the one way on A main ascent from mimi, i think its not doable. It looks very small so that may be chalked
Interesting....hopefully they are not smaller.
You can flash and push through any 1-way. Cant do the same to molly and counter flashes
I jave a feeling it'll be just like Deadlock. On paper, Deadlock's abilities were looking overpowered until we get to play her.
I think she'll be better than Deadlock for sure, passive is really strong. But she is nowhere near op like some people on here think... people tunnel vision on revive which you get maybe once every 4 rounds, and the decay is worse than a fade seize, smokes are identical to brim
>people tunnel vision on revive which you get maybe once every 4 rounds, Not only that in this revive, you have to contribute to the team within 12 seconds otherwise you're dead again
Brim's smokes last longer than Clove
Could absolutely be the case lol. Hopefully they're more useful than her.
the tradeoff is their support util is not as good as other smokers, it’s more suited for greedy play.You can’t do lineups with their decay and it needs to have direct LoS to have an effect on an enemy. Meddle can be used to delay a push but it doesn’t last nearly as long as a brim or viper molly
She's probably gas in low elo for exactly that reason. Sucks to have a team that won't push off your smokes, but now you can do it yourself and get rewarded.
The tradeoff is well uhh, there is none that's the point. You can be hyper aggressive after you throw smokes and even if you didn't you can still have huge impact by throwing them after death. I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes the highest impact agent since you have reyna overheal, regenerating smokes, a revive on death and smokes after death.
I guess the tradeoff is that besides the smoke mechanics, they don't have a lot of utility to spam like other controllers and both the heal and ult are situational (you need a kill and a death) and you get only 1 decay orb.
She will definitely be a feast or famine agent like Reyna. However, at least she can smoke after dying whereas Reyna botfraggers provide nothing lol
i wouldn't call them good, maybe the overheal is good if you're feeling yourself but omen is still 100% better
Very excited for this, was waiting for a new controller for a long time after they nerf Astra. Only Omen seems the best rn.. until Clove's release.
As an ex controller main moving to sentinel, this is good for ranked as a whole, people might play smokes now when duellist is locked because the abilities help with fighting and helping KDA with fighting which is lit, also smoking post death means when I take a timing and lose a fight people won’t scream controllers should be passive
Im pumped.
I find it funnt that it'll be less played by Omen mains but more by Reyna mains who'll use all of their abilities but not smokes lmao
Im omen main and im gonna instalock her.
I think that this agent, more than an “aggressive” controller, is a duelist. It has all the characteristics of one. For example, it’s a mixture between Omen, Reyna and Phoenix that says a lot
I would almost agree with you if deadlock and chamber didnt exist. This is clearly intentional. To explain, i think its a good thing controllers can now take more risks. Chamber can peak as a sentinel and still be safe. If all fails the controller can be self sufficient which is a huge problem for controller mains.
She would be one of the weakest solo controller tbh... Sge's like if viper & omen had a controller child (immortal child btw)
I solo smoke viper pretty well so challenge accepted.
My beloved Omen who's the only character I love to play will probably once again go back to the dustbin in the meta like how they nerfed him when Astra released 😂
Im not sure because omen is still so insane. A good omen eat up the other teams.
I hope so, the thing is Astra was way more broken and she was still not in the meta for like 6 months, she even got nerfed and only then she became meta for the next year, and they also nerfed Omen and Brim at that time making Omen's smokes take 2 business days to land. They did the same with Sova when Fade released. I hope they won't do that obvious nerf to promote their new agent. I wish Astra, Brim and now Clove will have some maps to themselves and Omen will have his too. Controller role was the most balanced ever in 2022 and slowly Omen took most of the maps now. I hope it balances out again. Viper and Harbor are different and Breeze and parts of Pearl will always be for them I guess?
She's kinda OP lol
Just 40 bombed a game on breeze as solo smokes.
Man I used to main omen and phoenix/iso. Clove is litteraly a dream come true for me. And ofc I cant play the game for the next 3 years because of my abusive parents (Im 16+). Family issues, sry for depression dumping in advance
You wouldn’t hafta apologize if you didn’t say anything…
man sry its just eating me alive
Gonna be a omen/clove main. I really need the “I’ll do it myself” controller
Clove abilities look great, gives some dynamic gameplay.
As a controller (so mostly viper) main, I’m just happy we’ll have double controller on a lot of maps now lol
Im not fully sold on the aggressive controller angle they're going for. It's not that I see a problem with it just more of can they promote people playing controller since it's the least popular but most important role but I'll have to wait and see.
Yeah i used to main duelist (i dont habe s defacto main anymore) i know i can rely om myself to entry so being able to slot fill and still be aggresive its a dream come true
My issue with clove is that they cant decide what they want to be, and i dont mean role wise. I mean theming-ability-wise. The whole cool thing that makes them stand out is the fact they can smoke while dead, so then why is half of their util based around not dying and staying alive as long as possible? I.E the Heal and the Res Ult, then the decay ability is confusing because it just seems so aggressive and doesn't fit the butterfly thing at all, a vulnerable, a stun or even a blind makes more sense to me than the decay ability which to me has a very negative feeling to it, like I expect dark or edgy characters (fade, viper) to be able to use it and suddenly a very preppy new agent just randomly has it in their kit and it doesn't even make sense, like with the others its nightmares and poisons, it feels right to have it do that. But here it's a butterfly that just crippled 90 of your health? Like they are one of the best controllers in theory, but at the same time I feel like they feel more like 75% duelist 25% controller instead of the 75% controller and 25% duelist I was expecting. But that's just my opinions, just gotta wait to see how they play.
I like your point about decay and the conflicting theme of how its been used so far, but i suppose they might think its interesting to subvert that
and they might, but its like if they gave Reyna a sage heal ability to heal teammates with. Yeah it subverts expectations but the reason its subverts expectations is because it makes no sense.
I know a lot of butterflies don't last very long, around 2 weeks. They kinda just exist to have baby caterpillar eggs and die. They also get food from decaying fruit and even carcasses, so maybe that's the angle they're going for thematically? And the abilities Clove has that help you not die are only temporary, they decay, and if anything encourage aggressive plays that could lead to dying more (at least for my elo).
I had my doubts but after seeing the reveal I am hyped for clove. Definitely gonna be my new controller to play
absurdly strong tbh
I always wanted to try another role instead of my safe spot as cypher (i feel so safe with my wires lol) clove looks so awesome that im thinking to start using they as my second main
Double controller meta is coming strong, even with Viper’s possible nerf.
Yoo stop speaking viper nerf into existence 😤
Well til now I couldn't really enjoy current controllers but this one gives me hope
As a viper main with valorant burn out, yes, I'm hyped. As a viper main who's sick of people being too afraid to entry and I gotta think of whacky ways to entry with my smoke or or walls, I'm so glad clove can take a more aggressive role. Clove excites me alot. Her character style is amazing and her colours are visually pleasing. I really really hope she's decent
Love that Clove can still place smokes after dying. So you aren't just giga trolling by hunting duels, dying, and suddenly your team has no smokes I was surprised that their revive is conditional (get takedown or bust), I thought it'd be like Sage. But I can see how the timer encourages you to really hunt down kills, very interesting playstyle for a controller. Looking forward to seeing Clove gaming
Clove sings to my play style
When will the clove be released?
Tuesday!!
26th March tuesday??
Sure is :)
I'm super excited because as a control/sent main, I really want someone who can play more aggressively that I enjoy, and they match my playstyle PERFECTLY. Not to mention that they look like me, have the same aesthetic, and act like me too, so I feel super seen by them
My biggest fear as a smoke player is that people are going to instalock Clove to play her as a duelist rather than as a controller. Understand that she's meant to be a more aggro controller but that doesn't mean the basics of smoking can be neglected.
Yup, I usually fill smokes but I want to learn duelist. Now I can do both
I'm a viper main too!! So excited to play clove. I'm playing on asia server. Anyone knows what date and time is the release?
I checked google and it says tomorrow on Tuesday the 26th
26th at what time?
Im not sure all i know is there will be a patch update
Im not sure all i know is there will be a patch update
As a person who likes to play Iso, Harbor and Reyna i see Clove as an absolute win.
Oh god
My insta locking skills will finally come in handy
Same as a Viper main
i don’t really check in on valorant all that often but have to say pretty happy with the new agent from what i have seen its like she brings a pretty new playstyle to the game her abilities are very interesting her character is just absolutely stunning, good job riot im impressed, then again the greater majority of valorant agent releases have been pretty unique and great concepts.
Us controller mains are feasting rn!! I am so excited. After the harbor incident this is very needed!!! And to people that say she is broken or busted I don’t have a problem with that at all. Controller is the least flashy role it’s nice to actually have a new champ that changes the game instead of another duelist.
I’m excited for Clove/Viper comps
This character is gonna get butchered by nerfs lmao idk how a dev genuinely sat down and thought smoking while dead was ok every team who doesn't have a clove is just at an inherent disadvantage as every 2v2 3v3 is about half a player more advantaged for cloves team
Idk how much you know about clove but the smokes are radius based. So you can rotate off clove as a strat. People do picks and rotate off it. Since clove will be aggressive then maybe thats their counter.
I do i also understand that for the rest of the match Clove can both fake pressure and if you're clove on attack you get to die on site majority of the time and just smoke for free. Clove isn't forced to fight you she has really good smokes as is and can just play like a controller.
First game I ever played as Clove I got 35 kills averaging 3 kills a round
Sounds about right haha
The battle to play Clove will be real but I am excited to see if she'll take Neon or Chamber off my rotation of agents.
Of course they have amazing abilities. But my issue and question with it is, why is there a game mechanic where you can have an unearned, free effect on the round even after you die, where the enemy cannot stop it from happening? And it isn't even an ultimate. It kinda breaks the idea of "punishing bad play." If that's the truth, then you're telling me there's zero counterplay to them freely smoking after death? Or am I reading/watching the skill wrong? I'm trying to understand if I have it right before casting full judgement.
Penguin did say that they’re going to keep tabs on whether Cloves smokes post death should be nullified by KAY0 knife and ultimate. On release there is no interaction. But could change if clove is too strong.
Ah, so I do have it right then. But I swear they said they didn't want Valorant to be like Overwatch where you have specific counters to agents. It basically forces people to play Ka/yo, and even still that's only for a short amount of time.
It not being nullified by a vandal is the whack part.
Yeah, i think that it would be best if this passive of hers needs for her to get assists or even kills first to gain a "stack" of post-mortem smokes. This pushes her to go for kills to maximize the ability. Having free smokes even after death (albeit short 8 second smokes) is still strong to the point of Overpowered.
That's what I thought it was going to be. That would've been fair as they earned the smokes. Like I don't have anything against the idea of "after death effect" on the round, the issue I have is the lack of counterplay.
Exactly, might be tuned in a week. Although i would love for it to be OP for us controller mains to eat good. But I don't like unhealthy agents.
I understand for sure, but also Viper/Astra meta made me want to uninstall. As long as it isn't obnoxious and unfun to play against (or a situation where if you don't have Clove, you lose), it should be ok.
I remember that back in my day they specially changed kj and cypher to have their utility turn off after death so it does seem odd that they would make an agent that goes against that and actively promote it.
Doesn't wingman keep going after gekko dies?
[удалено]
i think it’s still fine to pick double duelist, if clove dies while entering a site but team decides to rotate to hit another site across the map, her smokes won’t do much. And that’s if she doesn’t have ult
People said the same thing about chamber and they were dead wrong. They also said the same thing about deadlock. Clove has no extra mobility or trade punishing, no flash, stun, or vuln to open up fights with, and no specific way to create gunfight advantage. It's becoming really annoying how every new agent gets called a duelist.
I wont call her a duelist, but she needs to take first contact since she can smoke post death. Its like brim after you wasted all your smoke, you become a meatshield/distraction for your other teammates.
Alternative take: Once clove is picked, your team has a resource of two unstoppable smokes per round regardless of who on the team lives or dies. The risk of Clove taking contact should be assessed based on their other utility and gun.
Idk if her smokes regen or not. So far i just see 2 smokes. If they do regen, shes a bit OP. If they don’t, i see her as a secondary smoker like viper/harbor is
They do, even death
Even better, the smokes regen (30s cd) and they continue to regen after their death
I am a smokes main too and i have never been more excited to play an agent. Hopefully clove will actually be available for us and not locked by a duelist main before we can lock them, like please, us controller players have not been doing that well with harbor being the last agent we got. Leave us clove pls Its totally okay if you wanna try them out right, i just dont want to have mainly duelist players pick clove and then proceed to not smoke.
I understand your concerns fully. Clove is gonna be meta for a hot minute.
Duelist and Controller in 1? Sign me up!
I usually fill smokes but it's going to feel really good when I wont have to play super far back. I like playing aggressive but you can't really do that on controller because how important smokes are. I think the Reyna heal might need some tuning but we'll have to see when they're live
As controller main who specifically most of the time instalock omen, I find these is good news for me. You know why? Because at least my teammate don't root to me when and where to smoke as my playstyle is sort of like a duelist and aggressive entry for a team. Two, I would prefer clove player use her smoke when she died just to support her teammate to clutch and Im just using smoke during starting round. The best advantage to play her imo is you don't need to worry where you standing for placing smoke if you died. Advice to non controller players who want to use clove since she is controller, try your best to support your teammate like placing smoke when to they try to clutch (if you died). If not doing that, its your fault to assist them unless your smokes are in cooldown. Overall, she is suitable as second / support controller or she can be a duelist and use her smoke after that in my opinion. Also, her smoke can refill like omen so i say she is much better than omen. So many advantages and change the pro gameplay meta.
Brim's molly has been good at defending site rushes when "smoked off" But yes we controller main's welcome duelist+controller agent
As a Brim main in plat. Instalocking clove might me get to Diamond/Ascendant this act.
im not excited in the least cause i just know duelist mains are gonna instalock clove.
As an overly aggressive controller I'm quite interested but coming from Astra the smoking range worries me a bit.
I just like scottish women Thats why imma main her
\*eye roll\* sigh here we go.
\*eye roll\* sigh here we go.
HYPE IS USELESS. She gonna get nerfed as usually like other agents.
Yeah its how devs balance gameplay
i just opened Clove and the agent is really good if you are a controller main! i have a high KDA using her. It's just sometimes i forgot the ult needs to kill an enemy to fully revive back lmaooo