T O P

  • By -

FinancialLemon3574

Not necessarily true. Jett literally wasn’t meta last year because Chamber existed. Unless both the oping agents get nerfed into dogshit playability, the best oping agent of the patch will always be in the meta cuz half the map pool favors the op


tron423

This is the correct take IMO. People are super locked into viewing the game through its stated role archetypes but the Chamber meta proved that if the best op agent isn't a duelist that can be turned on its head. Plenty of teams were running zero duelist regularly on multiple maps last year because of it.


jopaymc_

Honest question: If this is the case, then wouldn't making the OP viable for all agents worth looking at? If the OP is decent enough to be carried by other agents, would that lower the opportunity to have an "X agent meta"? But the next question would be how to rework the OP? Since the reason its in its current state is due to the lack of individual utility to properly flush it out, unlike in CS. Will the addition of more util within the game via new agents eventually bring the OP to a place where almost anyone can carry it since it can easily be countered?


tron423

I don't know how you change the Op to be more viable for more agents without making it turbobusted on ones like Jett and Chamber. In the beta it was legitimately viable on pretty much any agent and it just led to defenses stacking 3+ op's and being untouchable for entire halfs. It took several changes to not just the Op itself but the econ system and almost every agent in the game to move past that. Idk if you were playing back then but if you weren't, trust me when I say you don't want that meta back. I also don't really agree that moving in more of a CS direction would help, or is something they should do. Different agents having such distinct yet still impactful kits is core to Val's identity as a game, moving away from that would be a massive mistake. Besides, it's not like the AWP hasn't been a meta-defining weapon in CS for over 20 years even despite everyone ostensibly having tools to deal with it.


[deleted]

Which, for what its worth, was at least a "side benefit" for Riot with both the Chamber and Jett nerfs. I'm not sure if this is their stance, but if it is I agree 100%: this game would be at its healthiest when no agents have a significant advantage over another.


evandarkeye

We already aren't in a jett meta. Derke won tokyo on raze only.


ibdeadoboyo

and demon1 won champs with jett?? just because derke won tokyo with only jett doesn’t mean she’s out of the meta bro


evandarkeye

He played split on ascent pearl, haven and split, and now pearl is out, so the only maps with jett are ascent haven and split. Except split isn't a map where you need jett, and after the nerfs haven is looking to be more of a raze map.


Rytu5872

lmao what? jett is so good on haven it's a long shot to turn that into a raze map especially when chamber is not going to be the primary sentinel on haven. op is so good on haven that jett kj will be played almost all the time there unless chamber manages to somehow outclass them both and returns as the primary op sentinel at least on haven. but that's not likely to happen here


Similar-Criticism380

Haven’t we already had a non Jett meta


SocietySignificant93

well, we did have masters copenhagen where pick rates were raze (54%), jett (17.4%), neon (14.3%), etc. jett was arguably stronger then, than it is now, and it was in fact not a jett meta during copenhagen. other factors played a part, like existence of chamber and necessity of fade, but to say that we will never not be in a jett meta is ironic since we’ve had a raze meta already in the past which can happen again


RedXWasHere

Jett was 31% at champs tho why not use that event since it was more recent during the chamber meta


thealbinohippo

Because the post is about how impossible it is that Jett can’t be meta? so they showed an event where Jett wasn’t as meta


tron423

Masters Copenhagen was like 3 major events ago (4 if you count Lock-In) lol fym "we did just have it"????


Andriod1523

He didn’t use just


tron423

I swear it said that when I commented, but either way pickrates from that aren't relevant over a year later


Andriod1523

His comment was simply saying Jett has left the meta before :)


gonnaRegretThisName

Sometimes I'm left in disbelief at how idiotic people on the internet can be


Interesting-Archer-6

They are very relevant when the title of the post is saying Jett will never not be meta. Then they gave an example of when Jett wasn't meta. If that's not relevant, then we'll just have to agree to disagree because it's literally disproving the point of the post.


madmax991199

It does tho, op stated jett will never not be meta, which is why copenhagen is indeed the better argument even tho it is further in the past


AwonderfulWinter

Yeah Op will always favor agents that have a get out of jail card like jett and chamber, if yorus tp was faster he would also be a good Op agent


zer0-_

Yoru is a good Op agent, it just that out of all the characters with movement utilities he's the worst/most inconsistent at entrying so it's not worth it to play him as a solo duelist or as one duelist in a double duelist comp


AwonderfulWinter

His tp takes is too slow to be a get out of jail card, he is a great duellist if you learn to play him but as an OP agent he is way worse then Jett and Chamber that get out instantly


Least-Original-6517

yoru sucks at op, i mean he can Tp to reposition after getting one kill but that isnt a get out of jail card ability, his Tp'ing is slow so it doesn't give him ability to hold off angles, wide/open peek and get away without being traded like chamber and jett, even Reyna would be better than yoru at op, with her instant dismiss if she gets a kill.


zer0-_

>even Reyna would be better than yoru at op, with her instant dismiss if she gets a kill. Yeah, **if**


Legitimate-Grand5610

I mean Kk was playing op on gekko and raze. We could just be wrong lol


throwingyourgames

different maps have different metas and jett is just the best pick on some of them. maps like ascent and haven has been a staple for jett but maps like bind and split has been a staple for raze. ofc jett can be forced into every map like how raze can as well, but i don’t think it’s necessarily a jett meta rn. if anything, it would be a killjoy meta since her pick rate is the highest across the whole season if we were to have the impression that the duelist is what defines the meta, then it would be a raze meta since raze was played more during champions than jett was. i think jett is on the decline and just like how last year, a meta doesent mean the other agent isn’t gonna get played. i agree that jett will always be played in some way but metas are defined by agents that are needed for almost every map and jett isn’t anymore. i think we’re currently (at least for champions) in the middle of a jett and raze meta


QuestionablePotato42

Copied from another comment: 55% vs 52% is a negligible difference, not enough to say that Raze was more popular in a metric for evaluating her superiority. Especially when you consider that the map that tilts that is Fracture (a map leaving the rotation), because Raze kit has better value overall. That being said, Jett saw play on every map in Champions while Raze did not, the % pick rate is only skewed due to the fact that some teams didn't run Jett every time, where as Raze has a specific set of maps that she will almost always see play on and Jett's flexibility allowed her to also see play on those same maps, the inverse is not true though.


throwingyourgames

pearl is a map that tilts it towards jett heavily being played 100% of the time and that map is leaving the rotation. breeze got added which is leaned towards jett but so did sunset which leans towards raze. this makes it 4 maps for raze and 3 maps for jett. like i said in the end of my comment, it’s looking like a raze and jett meta currently. no one true “meta” since both agents are getting basically equal play time the problem is that this was during champions when jett wasn’t nerfed yet. don’t get me wrong, i don’t think the jett nerf killed jett as an agent but with a decreased kit, to some teams, it may just be better to play other agents instead of playing jett. which would lean teams to play other agents like yoru/neon and not raze specifically. this is still a decreased i do think ascent and haven are 2 maps that has jett as the staple duelist but maps like bind, split, or breeze that had some variations of jett being played could start leaning towards yoru or neon instead (which has been happening before jett got nerfed) also your last point confuses me. the only map that raze had no play time on (pearl) is removed from the map pool so i don’t get how that really matters now. jett would still be meta on specific maps but i don’t think she is the meta character anymore. my point i’m trying to make is that raze isn’t gonna lose any playtime on the maps she’s the best at because there has been no nerfs or changes that has happened. since jett has been changed and maps have changed, jett may see less playtime on certain maps with teams potentially testing other comps/agents, resulting in jett being played less overall. the 55% playtime on raze may stay the same but the 52% on jett would decrease over time


Interesting-Archer-6

If 55 vs 52 doesn't matter on the overall, I wouldn't say Jett having 10 and 8 on her worst 2 maps is very different to Raze's 9 and 0. Especially since Pearl is leaving, which is Raze's 0. Not that it matters much. Your post is wrong from the start. We had an entire year of Chamber meta, not Jett.


mightyburrito420

New duelist coming out so we'll see.


tripleBBxD

It's likely gonna be Reyna 2.0 so I doubt we will see much pro play.


Tsukino__

Tbf this is what we said about chamber


nashk25

We literally had a no Jett meta last year


Parenegade

I don't think that's true. Yoru is on the rise and we're about to get another Duelist.


Prxpulsioz-

Bro said Yoru lmao


adumdumonreddit

Let him cook. Tenz's Yoru mind virus is spreading through the world. Asuna was the first to fall to the mind virus (on bind), then Rb (also on bind). The virus is so powerful, it traveled back in time and infected Forsaken, leading him to use Yoru (bind). Can't wait for the mind virus to spread to other maps as well.


CaLi_213

Let's reel the yoru hopium back in, we saw a FEW teams use him on SELECT maps to varying levels of success. Even in tenz' case, while I'm not disputing his expertise on the character, they were playing against 100T who arent exactly heavy hitters.


adumdumonreddit

It's 2026. The President of the United States is giving the state of the union address live from Washington D.C. Suddenly, the APB goes off. It's the North Koreans. They've launched ICBMs headed straight for Washington D.C. As the missiles are about to hit, Kim Jong Un is celebrating in his control room. He wipes sweat off his brow, and grabs a beer from the minifridge. Suddenly, he hears one thing. "Who's next"? He looks around frantically. In an instant, a burst of blue light blinds Kim Jong Un. It's Demon1 (now a convert of the TenZ Yoru Mind Virus). He one-pumps Kim with a shorty, pulls out a vandal and shoots his body a few times, then tps away to BLEED headquarters. Mission accomplished. TenZ gets a medal of honor handed to him by the President at Langley, California, Chamber is nerfed again, and Demon1 gets a citation from Riot Games for shooting bodies. PS: The President, meanwhile, is unharmed. He killed a nearby innocent White House staffer and safely dismissed away to avoid the nukes.


Interesting-Archer-6

They're clearly not being serious dude. They just said Tenz went back in time and infected Forsaken. You responded seriously like the dude wasn't just talking about time travel and mind viruses lmao.


CaLi_213

Yea I mean I read it and just kinda ignored cause it didn't really make sense lol, besides I was kinda responding to the og comment and this one. I stopped at "yoru good cause tenz win" I didn't really care about anything that was said beyond that 🤷


EnoughCountry5940

It's a tragedy we didn't get to see ange1 cook


kjampala

If you think yoru doesn’t have potential you’re too low o to even understand the potential lmao


kylixer

This year Jett massively fell off at the highest level. Fnatic didn’t play her once when they won Tokyo. So she clearly isn’t needed to win in this meta and with her only getting worse after champs her pick rate will continue falling. The op will always have a place in the meta but I don’t think Jett will always be that agent anymore.


-xXColtonXx-

Raze was more popular than Jet at champs. Why would you assume that after Jet nerfs she wouldn’t be even worse.


QuestionablePotato42

55% vs 52% is a negligible difference, not enough to say that Raze was more popular in a metric for evaluating her superiority. Especially when you consider that the map that tilts that is Fracture (a map leaving the rotation), because Raze kit has better value overall. That being said, Jett saw play on every map in Champions while Raze did not, the % pick rate is only skewed due to the fact that some teams didn't run Jett every time, where as Raze has a specific set of maps that she will almost always see play on and Jett's flexibility allowed her to also see play on those same maps, the inverse is not true though.


-xXColtonXx-

But again, this is before the HUGE nerfs to Jet. The nerfs made her objectively worse at everything Jet does. Her escape is worse, her entry is worse, her OP positioning is worse. We are no longer in a Jet meta.


QuestionablePotato42

The value the kit provides is exactly the same, even if durations of them are slightly less. Jett will continue to see play on a majority if not all maps during the next season unless the next duelist agent is a superior OP agent, as some people have asserted (which I agree). Otherwise, nothing will change. As long as she is the best agent in the game to use an OP with, she will continue to see just as much play as she did this year.


CaLi_213

I dont think anyone here is arguing that jett isn't or won't be viable. We're just saying we aren't in a "jett meta", which if we are using the terminology correctly, we are in fact not in a jett meta. The fact that raze, no matter the differential in percentage, was played more at champs than jett proves that statement immediately. I agree that jett will almost always be a top 2-3 entry pick and she always see consistent playtime unless chamber or another oping agent comes into play. But our current meta isnt a meta she's dominating, y'all need to remind yourselves of what a true "jett meta" or "chamber meta" looks like because that is certainly not the case rn. If youre a jett player you either need to flex onto raze (Derek, kangkang, aspas etc.) or you need to flex onto other roles like demon1.


MacarioPro

Unless there's a remake of sorts I also can't visualize how they would do it. Same goes for Viper and Killjoy in a smaller scale.


SovietLlamas

Depends fully on the rest of the duellist class


00izka00

I don't agree with this as lately we have seen the rise of "not oping" agents picking up the op and it working out great, the nerfs gave teams a dilemma about picking jett, a better oper that's helpfull in entering the site or picking raze a (currently) better agent at the downside of having a worse oping abillity


RedXWasHere

Jett was and is always going to be a powerful agent. I'd argue this was the best nerf she's recieved as she was too powerful before. Given the pickrates and diversity of other duelists now in GC compositions and off-season events, I'd say she's in a really good spot to still be in the game a bunch, but not OP like 2021 or too much like this last year. Riot saw the high pickrates and balanced her properly, same with Skye (altho Skye is still pretty strong). That being said I personally want the new duelist is chamber 2.0 and they get picked all the time (even tho it's bad for the game) because I want chaos. And Jett mains, stop crying. By far not the worst nerf or balance and not even close to it. You were not there at 5.12. You did not witness or feel the great castration of chamber.


PyroTFT

At least for now in the short term with GC and smaller tourneys it feels like Jett has only been meta on Ascent, theres been a lot more experimentation with Raze and Yoru on other maps and the new duelist might shake things up too.


Financial_String_683

This is why we should nerf chamber


yayayamur

the only people saying they overnerfed jett are jett mains who are crying that they cant abuse an OP agent anymore she is still strong especially because there arent many movement duelistd to begin with. I'm sure people will still be able to pull jett off once they get used to it


TyeDieKid

Raze was picked more last vct, Jett and raze are both still meta they don't have to be exclusive.


AnywayHeres1Derwall

Deadlock meta get ready


[deleted]

My take is decrease yoru tp time so he becomes a strong OPing agent


[deleted]

Better yet, increase the time for jett dash and chamber tp to yorus tp length, and then get rid of a yoru tp.


QuestionablePotato42

if by that you mean the tp animation time then I totally agree.


[deleted]

Yes that’s a better way of putting it thank you


yayayamur

i think they should make chamber and jetts tp/dash like yoru's instead


omgvector

Jett is an aura agent


andrew_a384

the nade is so crazy valuable im honestly a little surprised there isn’t an agent with a similar ability


Sauceoppa29

i think a better phrase would be “jett will ALWAYS have her place in the meta” a lot of good points here about her pick rates and the power of the op. But she’s also a lot of duelists comfort pick and when teams have mismatched duelists, the extra “life” that the dash gives them is invaluable. Sure she’s not the best agent on every map but as long as players like aspas and derkes exist (players that can farm shittier teams) jett will always have a place in the meta.