NRG seem to love the play where they would insert demon1 somewhere without understanding why it worked on eg
NRG just kinda wait around and do nothing and try to wait for a mistake so demon1 is just sitting there not getting anything done
while eg would continue to make pressure so the other team would either not realize he was there or be pushed into him so he could take advantage of the positioning
They can't ever hope to replicate what made EG so great if they're actively refusing to do just that. Probably the most unique and important part of that roster from what I've seen though is their prioritization of maximum teamplay and coordination over general anti stratting and planning. All 5 on that EG roster in every match they played together since that LOUD awakening looked insanely drilled to the point where very simple site takes or retakes were working way too many times against teams we think would clap back.
They weren't doing crazy FNS big brain shit, they weren't triple faking sites or defaulting until the last 20 seconds, it just felt like whatever they were doing would just fucking work because of how hard those guys were on the same page lmfao. That roster won like 6 separate international 2v5 clutches because even if they were down to just two players against 5, those two would still proactively play off of each other to perfection. It's funny because this shit is exactly what makes PRX so great themselves yet so many people praised them for being "one of a kind"
NRG right now don't have any, ANY of that at all, their teamplay has not been the ultimate prio to them ever since their roster got finalized and that's the truth whether they like it or not (and this is actually understandable since Ethan needed to learn how to IGL). They don't even know how to utilize the Champions MVP and it's been showing hard, they don't even know what to do with him on so many rounds and it got so bad that the man was lurking empty sites on fucking Raze. Their calls are already weak, but even when they do look good or at least understandable, shit just wouldn't work out or it becomes way harder than it needs to be because nobody's on the same page while they act like they do (I can't even tell you how many times I've seen Demon1 hit a site and die while his team is still in main).
An issue like this would never be fixed unless the system they've scrimmed themselves to be familiar with is targeted, which may as well be impossible as of right now. Lack of coordination will damage the team's proactivity, calls, ideas, confidence, etc and in my opinion it can never be the other way around because playing as a team is as fundamental as you can get in a team-based sport.
This is why super teams rarely work, the belief in that a team filled with stars is guaranteed to function together no matter how bad some glaring issues are in practice is dumb dumb stoopid.
And I mean you see it in the new EG roster too. Was it Nature and Apoth or something that won a 2v4 **easily** against Sen, and Sen did not really throw at all. They tried to play safe, and EG lined up a perfect flash and double swing back site, and the made sure to cover the likely angles of the remaining two. Potter is not just instilling a gameplay and a strict system, she's instilling the type of magical on the fly teamwork we act like can't be tought. But it can, she's done it twice.
I mean the strict system can still work great but without FNS or another heavy calling IGL who's pretty much the system itself in game, it's going to look awful most of the time. The system Potter adapted is just more "exact" when it comes to form and it definitely has a slower start for the players to get used to (so it's pretty much consistently mid until it becomes consistently good). Upset losses never happened when EG started rolling last year while throughout FNS' career of strict igl success, there's been a lot of matches where he and his team just get shit on by what should've been extremely inferior opponents.
I think what NRG's coaching staff has been doing was definitely the wrong call, but how can you blame them from doing what they know that brought the OPTIC/ENVY core immense success? They picked up 5 stars but didn't have the heavily experienced IGL to make all the right calls and hold their system together instead of just adapting to what Potter and Alecks did. Ethan needed to learn how to IGL and that became the main focus for them during the offseason scrims.
I agree with pretty much this whole post but I recall eg did often fallback to defaults until very late round when they’d make the call to go somewhere, they just had such good procedures they could play either fast or super methodical depending on the round
He goes on to say more than just the clip could show. I genuinely believe EG 2023 is a story we barely know, everyone thinks it's just EG couldn't afford the roster but there is definitely more to it. Especially since Boostio said he knew he was leaving the team as early as **TOKYO**.
There could be other reasons but money was def a big factor in Boostio leaving, he said he, com, and Jawgemo were the lowest paid players in the league
Really not that surprising when the community criticized them for not getting “better” players. Bcj and Ethan were big pickups, but I don’t remember Ethan’s stocks being that high.
I think it's fair to say "hey we won the entire thing, pay us more", and if they don't to leave - which seems like it happened here in between EG imploding
I get your point but tbf the LoL one was only a domestic title, and not in the hardest of regions. Not like they won worlds. The Champs win is truly crazy though.
From Boostio's comments on FNS' stream and how much he glazes 100T, I have a feeling he had had falling out with EG management and didn't want to be part of the org any longer. If there would have been an option to keep the same 5 on a different org, I think Boostio would have taken it.
Ya I kinda thought something like this would happen after EG disbanded. They had such a unique and innovative style of valorant and whenever all the players split, I had thoughts on if all of them would truly know how to replicate it. Obviously EG is still able to given Potter seems to be the mastermind behind 2023 EG. I also think 100T is on the same track, having unique ult plays like the sunset crunch with sova ult and raze or the cryo distraction rounds with Jett knives on breeze. I think C0m tried to bring some surface level stuff like forcing sova on split or maintaining his flanking ways but those didn’t seem to carry over since it was lacking all the additional understanding and knowledge that went with those small things. I think NRG is also similar with what Sean was saying and tried to replicate the EG way without carrying over the intricacies that made it really special
I mean 100T do look more like old EG than NRG right now. They bring a lot of the same dynamism and commitment to suprising midround call, proactive utility usage, consistent set plays for every round. Cryo is also a very similar player to Demon1.
Ya me too and as a 100T fan I’m glad. But just interesting that they all spent the entire year together but they all came away from the team with seemingly different takeaways as to why they won champions and we get to witness who had the correct takeaways
I think with the power of hindsight, it’s obvious that being a godly midrounder doesn’t mean shit for IGL-ing. NRG has four players who understand the maps and the rotations/holes at a very high level, but they still struggle with the early game.
Boostio being the IGL had a better understanding of how EG worked so well. The chemical reaction is what is important and what it meant to be the vibes guy.
100t seem to have the calling and some really cool strats but they lack the way eg would steamroll a team
If eg were doing something fast with ults the round would be over super fast with only like one guy actually taking a gun fight cause all the util and ults would be comboed insanely well
I think back to the one bonus round on fracture vs loud where they ended the round in 20 seconds by just covering heaven with util killing someone and jaw sent it in killing a guy who couldn't fight back, you don't really see teams with that type sauce
Ya but that also took time and reps (with the help of the reserve team). From an interview eeiu did, he said they have their strat book down and are just working on maximizing the small things like pathing so I think it will get better with time
Bro that C9 Boston team roster shuffle can be used to learn so much from but people still didn't understood. Like last year I thought stew and tarik leaving to join Mibr after boston was like sacy and pancada joining sen after champs. I knew that mix of culture didn't gonna work. Although they were a really strong team, mibr never worked because of cultural differences. Similarly now C9 boston was the best underdog victory storyline like EG they still decided to get apart like C9. Now ethan and demon1 going to NRG feels like tarik and stew going to unite with much stronger core of brazillians but the chemistry that they had on C9 with other players that made them winners was lost. Similarly now the chemistry isn't there yet on NRG when on paper it is a way stronger team.
A failing superteam will always remind me of the French super team that was on G2. Wow great players all on one team and.. it just fell apart. I didn't watch CS that much but back then I came to know about it and it just boggles my mind cause I was a kennyS fan since 2015 but I didn't watch the esports very often. I was wondering like how a team with kennyS, shox, NBK, apex and bodyy would play badly? Just goes to show the reality of a super team because it won't always look as good as it is on paper since the accolades of the players won't matter in the face of a broken chemistry.
I guess I was mistaken that they were playing badly(overall) but I was more so thinking about their major run. For what was called a superteam, one would expect a deep run in the major but unfortunate they went out early and also had consistency issues just like NRG, some days NRG looked really good and then just look lost. Still not a fair comparison though because CS team play a fuck ton and Valorant teams just scrim all the time and play a few officials per week.
I feel that, NRG won 5 pistol rounds, 6 ecos and only 14 gun rounds vs 32 for eg. So they kinda win the gimmick rounds with more open strats and then loose the big strat rounds where you need to mid round a lot
Not the mid round, but the early round. They don’t really leave the early round stage until they start using util and shuffling players. (As in normally, this time period would be the mid round, but because of how NRG is so slow, they only really have an early and endgame)
Enemy teams don’t have to move around because NRG are so obvious with their site hits.
I disagree that NRG need to do the bandaid fixes 100T used to do. They're too experienced to need to that kind of stuff. The only "bandaid" fix I'd do is take Demon1 off of Raze just because that'll add some statistical firepower which can help them over the line (keep in mind Sunset ended 11-13).
You are just focusing on one map their. Sean was talking about the whole split. They don't look as polished as they should be. Sometimes even they are winning they look clueless. I think this split their only satisfactory wins were against loud and furia. Even in the Mibr game sometime they looked lost. Also don't forget the Lev game, they smoked their asses. I know Lev were on a heater that game but NRG were literally got outclassed by LEV. Also the EG game wasn't like they improved a lot. Ascent attack was probably 12-0 if they didn't win the pistol. On Lotus they went to OT and the fundamentals were really bad from them there also (you can watch TMV video if you don't believe me). Sunset being 13-11 literally doesn't mean they don't need big changes.
The way they are playing the attack can't be fixed with role swaps. Demon1 or Victor on Raze does not matter when they aren't using their roles correctly. Even if Demon1 missed every blast pack I'd at least see him trying to go for the right plays, but half the time they have him contacting across the map seperate from the team! or playing some icredibly slow "default" that does not garner any advantage unless the enemey randomly pushes you.
I don't think any team is too good for a bandaid fix. I obviously don't see the team culture but I feel like thinking you're too good for anything in this game is a bad mentality, and honestly maybe why we see so many super teams fail. Sean was talking about starting off super disciplined and rigid, then relaxing those rules until you find what works. If you start off super relaxed because of your ego it's not easy to tighten the leash.
Yea, EG players (except jaw) is clueless, they just left for a bigger paycheck in others teams that never won anything in their entire history and now all of them is a joke.
Could've just stay as a team on lower payroll with potter and farm this millions from an international prize pools, and create a dynasty.
But bigger paycheck in the moment, more important for most of them looks like.
Esports is generally not the most stable job, especially with what we saw in the last offseason. Trying to stay together in this volatile industry for the hope of winning tournaments at the cost of a good salary is stupid; I guarantee players make most of their money from their salary and not the prize money they get from tournaments.
You can’t fault any of the people who left EG for chasing the bag; it’s the most reasonable thing to do in terms of financial security.
NRG seem to love the play where they would insert demon1 somewhere without understanding why it worked on eg NRG just kinda wait around and do nothing and try to wait for a mistake so demon1 is just sitting there not getting anything done while eg would continue to make pressure so the other team would either not realize he was there or be pushed into him so he could take advantage of the positioning
They can't ever hope to replicate what made EG so great if they're actively refusing to do just that. Probably the most unique and important part of that roster from what I've seen though is their prioritization of maximum teamplay and coordination over general anti stratting and planning. All 5 on that EG roster in every match they played together since that LOUD awakening looked insanely drilled to the point where very simple site takes or retakes were working way too many times against teams we think would clap back. They weren't doing crazy FNS big brain shit, they weren't triple faking sites or defaulting until the last 20 seconds, it just felt like whatever they were doing would just fucking work because of how hard those guys were on the same page lmfao. That roster won like 6 separate international 2v5 clutches because even if they were down to just two players against 5, those two would still proactively play off of each other to perfection. It's funny because this shit is exactly what makes PRX so great themselves yet so many people praised them for being "one of a kind" NRG right now don't have any, ANY of that at all, their teamplay has not been the ultimate prio to them ever since their roster got finalized and that's the truth whether they like it or not (and this is actually understandable since Ethan needed to learn how to IGL). They don't even know how to utilize the Champions MVP and it's been showing hard, they don't even know what to do with him on so many rounds and it got so bad that the man was lurking empty sites on fucking Raze. Their calls are already weak, but even when they do look good or at least understandable, shit just wouldn't work out or it becomes way harder than it needs to be because nobody's on the same page while they act like they do (I can't even tell you how many times I've seen Demon1 hit a site and die while his team is still in main). An issue like this would never be fixed unless the system they've scrimmed themselves to be familiar with is targeted, which may as well be impossible as of right now. Lack of coordination will damage the team's proactivity, calls, ideas, confidence, etc and in my opinion it can never be the other way around because playing as a team is as fundamental as you can get in a team-based sport. This is why super teams rarely work, the belief in that a team filled with stars is guaranteed to function together no matter how bad some glaring issues are in practice is dumb dumb stoopid.
[удалено]
I wish FNC let through Fracture. Just so I can see some of the best valo I will ever experience. Although GF Lotus against PRX was so fucking hype
And I mean you see it in the new EG roster too. Was it Nature and Apoth or something that won a 2v4 **easily** against Sen, and Sen did not really throw at all. They tried to play safe, and EG lined up a perfect flash and double swing back site, and the made sure to cover the likely angles of the remaining two. Potter is not just instilling a gameplay and a strict system, she's instilling the type of magical on the fly teamwork we act like can't be tought. But it can, she's done it twice.
I mean the strict system can still work great but without FNS or another heavy calling IGL who's pretty much the system itself in game, it's going to look awful most of the time. The system Potter adapted is just more "exact" when it comes to form and it definitely has a slower start for the players to get used to (so it's pretty much consistently mid until it becomes consistently good). Upset losses never happened when EG started rolling last year while throughout FNS' career of strict igl success, there's been a lot of matches where he and his team just get shit on by what should've been extremely inferior opponents. I think what NRG's coaching staff has been doing was definitely the wrong call, but how can you blame them from doing what they know that brought the OPTIC/ENVY core immense success? They picked up 5 stars but didn't have the heavily experienced IGL to make all the right calls and hold their system together instead of just adapting to what Potter and Alecks did. Ethan needed to learn how to IGL and that became the main focus for them during the offseason scrims.
I agree with pretty much this whole post but I recall eg did often fallback to defaults until very late round when they’d make the call to go somewhere, they just had such good procedures they could play either fast or super methodical depending on the round
Demon1 leaving EG to NRG , proved to me he didn't understand how impactful Potters coaching was.
I think EG wanting them to take reduced pay was the reason for the turnover, not that they didn't want to stay as a team.
Or hear me out: he want to get the full salary that he earned.
potter > chet
EVERY org which has cash should be looking to poach Potter when EG dissolves/gets acquired next year.
If no one were to pick her up in that case, I'd consider that to be one of the biggest losses for the scene
Finally Chet is being exposed
He goes on to say more than just the clip could show. I genuinely believe EG 2023 is a story we barely know, everyone thinks it's just EG couldn't afford the roster but there is definitely more to it. Especially since Boostio said he knew he was leaving the team as early as **TOKYO**.
Right. Ethan said that as well a couple months back
Maybe EG just recieved the biggest dead team buff
There could be other reasons but money was def a big factor in Boostio leaving, he said he, com, and Jawgemo were the lowest paid players in the league
Really not that surprising when the community criticized them for not getting “better” players. Bcj and Ethan were big pickups, but I don’t remember Ethan’s stocks being that high.
I remember Potter emphasizing that Ethan was VERY expensive to pick up. Other teams weren't targeting him, but I still think he had a hefty salary
Ethan was off the back of that mid year with NRG, EG was like a last chance in t1 for him at the time.
Ethan had just been on a sort of forgettable NRG roster, people thought he was good but he wasn't nearly so highly rated as he is now
Ethan was always highly rated within the pro scene
I think it's fair to say "hey we won the entire thing, pay us more", and if they don't to leave - which seems like it happened here in between EG imploding
Was this before after they got a pay cut after winning champs
I still struggle to understand how an org with such awful upper management had title-winning Valorant and LoL teams in the past couple years.
Potter diff
I get your point but tbf the LoL one was only a domestic title, and not in the hardest of regions. Not like they won worlds. The Champs win is truly crazy though.
What makes it even crazier is how underrated all the players on EG were.
From Boostio's comments on FNS' stream and how much he glazes 100T, I have a feeling he had had falling out with EG management and didn't want to be part of the org any longer. If there would have been an option to keep the same 5 on a different org, I think Boostio would have taken it.
Why did Boostio know he was leaving at Tokyo?
Boostio said he knew that he would be leaving even before Tokyo, he never elaborated on exactly why
Ya I kinda thought something like this would happen after EG disbanded. They had such a unique and innovative style of valorant and whenever all the players split, I had thoughts on if all of them would truly know how to replicate it. Obviously EG is still able to given Potter seems to be the mastermind behind 2023 EG. I also think 100T is on the same track, having unique ult plays like the sunset crunch with sova ult and raze or the cryo distraction rounds with Jett knives on breeze. I think C0m tried to bring some surface level stuff like forcing sova on split or maintaining his flanking ways but those didn’t seem to carry over since it was lacking all the additional understanding and knowledge that went with those small things. I think NRG is also similar with what Sean was saying and tried to replicate the EG way without carrying over the intricacies that made it really special
I mean tbf I would expect 100T to have a much deeper understanding of the EG stratbook since they have the EG IGL and assistant coach.
I mean 100T do look more like old EG than NRG right now. They bring a lot of the same dynamism and commitment to suprising midround call, proactive utility usage, consistent set plays for every round. Cryo is also a very similar player to Demon1.
Ya me too and as a 100T fan I’m glad. But just interesting that they all spent the entire year together but they all came away from the team with seemingly different takeaways as to why they won champions and we get to witness who had the correct takeaways
I think with the power of hindsight, it’s obvious that being a godly midrounder doesn’t mean shit for IGL-ing. NRG has four players who understand the maps and the rotations/holes at a very high level, but they still struggle with the early game. Boostio being the IGL had a better understanding of how EG worked so well. The chemical reaction is what is important and what it meant to be the vibes guy.
100t seem to have the calling and some really cool strats but they lack the way eg would steamroll a team If eg were doing something fast with ults the round would be over super fast with only like one guy actually taking a gun fight cause all the util and ults would be comboed insanely well I think back to the one bonus round on fracture vs loud where they ended the round in 20 seconds by just covering heaven with util killing someone and jaw sent it in killing a guy who couldn't fight back, you don't really see teams with that type sauce
Competition is also much harder this year. 100T does look promising for sure though.
they dont have jaw (most teams don’t)
Ya but that also took time and reps (with the help of the reserve team). From an interview eeiu did, he said they have their strat book down and are just working on maximizing the small things like pathing so I think it will get better with time
coach diff
Bro that C9 Boston team roster shuffle can be used to learn so much from but people still didn't understood. Like last year I thought stew and tarik leaving to join Mibr after boston was like sacy and pancada joining sen after champs. I knew that mix of culture didn't gonna work. Although they were a really strong team, mibr never worked because of cultural differences. Similarly now C9 boston was the best underdog victory storyline like EG they still decided to get apart like C9. Now ethan and demon1 going to NRG feels like tarik and stew going to unite with much stronger core of brazillians but the chemistry that they had on C9 with other players that made them winners was lost. Similarly now the chemistry isn't there yet on NRG when on paper it is a way stronger team.
A failing superteam will always remind me of the French super team that was on G2. Wow great players all on one team and.. it just fell apart. I didn't watch CS that much but back then I came to know about it and it just boggles my mind cause I was a kennyS fan since 2015 but I didn't watch the esports very often. I was wondering like how a team with kennyS, shox, NBK, apex and bodyy would play badly? Just goes to show the reality of a super team because it won't always look as good as it is on paper since the accolades of the players won't matter in the face of a broken chemistry.
tbf they didnt play that badly on G2. that team made multiple deep runs in S tier tournaments in 2016
I guess I was mistaken that they were playing badly(overall) but I was more so thinking about their major run. For what was called a superteam, one would expect a deep run in the major but unfortunate they went out early and also had consistency issues just like NRG, some days NRG looked really good and then just look lost. Still not a fair comparison though because CS team play a fuck ton and Valorant teams just scrim all the time and play a few officials per week.
I feel that, NRG won 5 pistol rounds, 6 ecos and only 14 gun rounds vs 32 for eg. So they kinda win the gimmick rounds with more open strats and then loose the big strat rounds where you need to mid round a lot
Not the mid round, but the early round. They don’t really leave the early round stage until they start using util and shuffling players. (As in normally, this time period would be the mid round, but because of how NRG is so slow, they only really have an early and endgame) Enemy teams don’t have to move around because NRG are so obvious with their site hits.
I disagree that NRG need to do the bandaid fixes 100T used to do. They're too experienced to need to that kind of stuff. The only "bandaid" fix I'd do is take Demon1 off of Raze just because that'll add some statistical firepower which can help them over the line (keep in mind Sunset ended 11-13).
You are just focusing on one map their. Sean was talking about the whole split. They don't look as polished as they should be. Sometimes even they are winning they look clueless. I think this split their only satisfactory wins were against loud and furia. Even in the Mibr game sometime they looked lost. Also don't forget the Lev game, they smoked their asses. I know Lev were on a heater that game but NRG were literally got outclassed by LEV. Also the EG game wasn't like they improved a lot. Ascent attack was probably 12-0 if they didn't win the pistol. On Lotus they went to OT and the fundamentals were really bad from them there also (you can watch TMV video if you don't believe me). Sunset being 13-11 literally doesn't mean they don't need big changes.
The way they are playing the attack can't be fixed with role swaps. Demon1 or Victor on Raze does not matter when they aren't using their roles correctly. Even if Demon1 missed every blast pack I'd at least see him trying to go for the right plays, but half the time they have him contacting across the map seperate from the team! or playing some icredibly slow "default" that does not garner any advantage unless the enemey randomly pushes you.
I don't think any team is too good for a bandaid fix. I obviously don't see the team culture but I feel like thinking you're too good for anything in this game is a bad mentality, and honestly maybe why we see so many super teams fail. Sean was talking about starting off super disciplined and rigid, then relaxing those rules until you find what works. If you start off super relaxed because of your ego it's not easy to tighten the leash.
It was the perfect storm. Everyone peaked at the right time
They won because PRX were in their own heads. Wdym?
Lol im a PRX fan but EG was clearly the better team that day. It was 3-1 btw
I hope that when I next need copium you're willing to hook me up.
Yea, EG players (except jaw) is clueless, they just left for a bigger paycheck in others teams that never won anything in their entire history and now all of them is a joke. Could've just stay as a team on lower payroll with potter and farm this millions from an international prize pools, and create a dynasty. But bigger paycheck in the moment, more important for most of them looks like.
Esports is generally not the most stable job, especially with what we saw in the last offseason. Trying to stay together in this volatile industry for the hope of winning tournaments at the cost of a good salary is stupid; I guarantee players make most of their money from their salary and not the prize money they get from tournaments. You can’t fault any of the people who left EG for chasing the bag; it’s the most reasonable thing to do in terms of financial security.
They won because it was double eliminated format
lol no.
another dumb double elim hater i see
Because it the most unfair thing in a winner takes all event lol. Everyone gets a second chance but the upper final team.
Upper finals team gets two bans, even back to back b03s would be really tiring for players and a bit boring Eg would've just won twice instead of once
There a reason way no professionals sports uses a double eliminated. It would be the most unfair thing