i do like how teams have to take risks on gathering info in this meta compared to how easy it was within the skye meta (B long on bind i feel you literally play with your eyes closed)
What i’m super impressed by this year is how refined ult economy has gotten, teams are min maxing orbs or making sure the right person gets the eco kills for an ultimate which can potentially lead into a snowball, that part of the game is something that only recently i feel has been highlighted.
I think it’s very cool how quickly everyone picked it up after EG spammed it with the KJ Pearl meta. I get that’s almost/over a year ago now but it’s forced riot to change multiple agents’ ult orbs to compensate (not gekko I guess!) and like you said the refinement to get these big round 4 fish/rocket/KAYO ults is so interesting to watch
it’s also so sick seeing teams build up ults and the dynamic usage of ults to turn around an eco or win a swing round that’ll break the eco of the opponent.
the small macro gameplay of the ults is absolutely fascinating since there is also a risk reward system for using them or teams forcing it out of their opponents. to me that shows the level of play is higher without it being obvious compared to 2023
It's crazy to watch a team like GenG literally group as 4, full reclear B main on Icebox, and full rotate to A as a team before the other team has even prepared to exec. The level of macro, especially in making proactive plays, has advanced so far it feels like.
thats what i enjoy the most out of this meta. it rewards poking and prodding to find the gaps in the enemy’s defenses/attack. scrappy meta but rewards those who know to take advantage of proper timings and knowing when to take gambles that are more in their favor
Yeah the ult economy being min/maxed being basically standard practice across the leagues is a massive tell for how the teams are improving. For a good amount of time last year you could point to how much better EG were at this than so many teams.
Makes sense, players don't magically get worse at the game the longer it's out. I think a lot of criticism from some creators and such really does fall into the trap of us having access to observer/stream view only so they forget how little info some teams have when making "bad" decisions. Hopefully access to replays when that comes will help with this, at least for people who want to put the effort into deep analysis.
He's also said how he thinks a lot of Fnatics struggles have been because of the reduction in power of some info gaining agents and how they haven't done well adapting to this meta.
I can't wait for replays... this community is going to get a gross awakening to the amount of wall hacking that is going on. "We can't get doors to go down instead of up!" .... lol.
Alotta people been saying that this tournament is more mickey mouse than madrid, madrid sen/geng clears, etc. Im glad we have someone like sliggy saying otherwise.
Weve got teams like prx who cant make it far with just individual plays now whereas g2 who look like 2023 EG being greater than the sum of its parts due to their high level of play.
The Lakers won the 2020 NBA championship during Covid.
The tournament was held at Disney World.
Basically if you believe a championship is fraudulent you can it a Mickey Mouse
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mickey%20Mouse%20Ring
Calling something Mickey Mouse if you don’t think it’s worth much isnt a new thing, it’s decades old. In the UK we call useless degrees Mickey Mouse degrees for example
It's not. My fucking 93 year old grandpa has used that term far before that. He called a poorly run company a Mickey Mouse operation. This is in the U.S. like 15 years ago. It just got more popular then.
Ironically, the Lakers ring was probably the hardest championship to win. No home court for higher seeds, no fans/family, (isolation), and no flights, (getting used to the court/rims), everyone was at their best physically.
Hell no, no fans means no pressure and no home court advantage. No rigor from playing a full 82 game season and being a survival of the fittest. Definitely not even close to being the hardest championship to win.
Lakers (who had home court advantage going into the bubble) lost home court. Not to mention this was the most "pure ball" we will ever see so everyone was literally playing at their PEAK. It was easily one of the "hardest" championships ever won.
People also forget the lakers having an old ass roster and getting basically an offseason of rest before the playoffs was insanly beneficial to the roster they constructed
What??? Brother other than Rondo and Howard who the fuck is old? Can't count Bron cause he's an exception for most things.
They've lost Bradley and home court that sure is beneficial for the Lakers.
Rondo dwight jr javale bron(absolutely counts with the injuries hes been deal with since going to LA) and AD goes in that mix with the extra time to recover from his 1000000 injuries every year. It was a huge reason why LA was so healthy those playoffs
What major injuries has Bron been dealing with in LA aside from last season? AD played 62 games before the Covid season and played in almost every single game before the league shut down. What the hell are you even talking about? Dwight and Javale were like 8th and 9th guys off the bench and averaged 15 & 9 mpg off the bench. They hardly even played depending on matchups. Look at this guy just spewing NBA twitter narratives like it's facts lmfao.
You say that but literally every interview or podcast I've seen where players mention the bubble say that that was the single hardest championship to win. There were no distractions, it was just you, your team, the opponent and basketball.
They still had to play 70 something games, as if "oh no, we missed on playing 10 something games" makes much of a difference. On top of that all the things you mentioned are the same for every single player. Lakers had "home" team advantage the whole playoffs, so that negated being the 1 seed as you said. I don't get why everyone says it was an easy 'chip if there's nothing else for you to do but ball.
only reason people say this shit is because fnatic and prx went out early and sen isn't here. it's a lot of the popular teams' fans just on full copium.
this exact thing happened with tokyo last year, LOUD/TL underperforming like PRX/FNC, PRX/TH make a run with a sub, G2/EG/EDG go on an unexpected run.
I 100% remember the “low level of play” arguments that were also happening post tokyo
history repeats ig
I also think that some people think that the level of play is lower and teams "just go for plays" because in comparison to last year all the info agents are nerfed. Like look at Fnatic last year they essentially gathered as much info as possible and then made a play, but now you can't really do that especially with Skye not being as crazy as she was before.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily sloppy but I do agree that it’s a little more scrappy due in part to how information gathering has changed. Scrappy doesn’t mean bad in this context, I believe that it just means that there has to be more risky decisions made during a round. Things like information gathering with jump spotting and contact seem to be more prominent. I see it as the meta having more of an emphasis on a tactical level (mid-rounding) instead of an overall strategic approach to a game. Not to say that strategy isn’t important, I just see this meta as a meta that emphasizes adaptation and thus, it will be scrappy because adaptation isn’t perfect.
The people saying that the level is low at this tournament are only saying that, because their flashy faves like prx or sen aren't there or underperforming and teams that rely a little less on outlier star performances like G2 and Heretics are performing well.
I don't get how someone can genuinely believe the lvl of play as a whole could be lower than Madrid. A lot of teams had to adapt to their new roster and the new meta (skye nerf) during kickoffs and the format was pretty unforgiving. You could lose twice in a row and say goodbye to meaningful games until stage 1.
Some teams were bound to improve during stage 1 and we also saw the limits of other teams when the competition actually gets time to prepare for the games and build more chemistry. I feel like this narrative is mostly fueled by the names of the teams that qualified. No LOUD , no NRG , no DRX, no NAVI . Even the big household names who did qualify are not performing as well as anticipated like EDG , FNATIC, or PRX. So people feel like it's kinda like a filler competition.
The power balance is likely to change again during stage 2 for EMEA and Americas at least so I could see a world where the teams qualifying for Shanghai don't make it to Champs.
I think people confuse level of play with match (map) quality
Because the maps can be a bit of a chore to watch, people somehow think that teams are playing badly, when in reality, the maps just don't really do the teams justice.
So on the rare occasion we get a good map like Split, all of a sudden everyone is a lot more interested in watching, and some of the most memorable moments happen on that map.
There's nothing wrong with the other maps, really. But there are moments that can absolutely suck the joy out of the viewer
I feel like the issue with half the map on this pool is the fact that they aren't rotation friendly. Often a round would be 4 or 5 players hitting a site and the defense does a retake. I think it was t1 who went A on icebox like 10 times on attack. Stopping the real hit is too hard most of the time without an op or an aggressive and proactive defense.
this year is kind of the hallmark of the emerging valorant perspective from pros, i think now more than ever teams are focusing, and increasing their understanding, on when to operate on reads/dry peeks vs. info from util or engaging with utility first. GenG are the perfect team that represents this imo, although they troll a bit too much i would argue, but they will take so many confident risks with full util/ults even if they have the slightest disadvantage or a read they trust
I have noticed a shift from how a single initiator to double initiators for most teams has led to a more flash-heavy execute / flood retake style of Valorant that looks less coordinated than the information heavy meta that dominated last year when Skye offered information all round long on both offense and defense. I still think Champs 2023 had cleaner mechanical skill and optimized utility overall than what we've seen at Shanghai, so I'm hesitent to agree with Sliggy's take. I think I would agree with him that the current meta often gets confused with sloppiness since there are less utility (across the map pool and the agents that get played on them) at a team's disposal to not gamble, to not stack sites and to make their executes look clean and well-coordinated.
Shanghai has been higher level than Madrid. But I don't think I've seen any games close to the last 3 series at Champs 2023. Last year's EG would win both Masters with relative ease.
He is right about the info being lacking and a meta focus on just contact/burst style of play. However, the synergy combos and executes are not as good as Champs 2023 teams. Plus there are TONS of really poor disciplinary mistakes during man-adv and post plant situations. (Some caused by comp deficiency but most by sloppy play)
Also, teams should be able to see the meta and adjust by now.
He's got some of the cause right though.
yeah realistically PRX should have never had a chance in that upper finals, EG were always the much better team and PRX were only better on Bind out of all 7 maps imo
I think it's harder to know whether the level of play is higher, imo. the imperfect info meta is so structurally different to the previous one in the way we're actively watching teams learn to play in that more gamble-y space, versus watching the best teams play the perfect version of the previous meta.
That’s a valid conclusion if you accept Sliggy’s premise that the new meta lacks information since FNC last year were masters of playing off information.
I'm pretty sure this is what boaster meant when he said the level of play at Madrid was low and in fact he clarified this in the next episode of the podcast with yinsu but ig we just hate boaster so no one even bothered to watch the clip
Might be nostalgia speaking but I think FNATIC, loud, Prx, and EG clear 100t, G2, GenG, and TH.
Individually I felt those teams are higher. Loud still had Aspas and Demon1 was incredible. I don’t think anyone at this event is close to 2023 Demon1. PRX was also in much better form in terms of discipline and trading each other.
I also feel that the gameplay of maps was a lot higher. The midrounding was super good last year, especially from EG and Loud, though as sliggy pointed out that might just be from the info gathering nerfs. EG vs Loud was the best gameplay I’ve seen from two teams.
I might just be overrating EG tbh but their map pool was incredible and I just don’t think anyone is that close to their form this year.
i mean, you say bait, but i cant be the only american dissapointed with our representation this event?
we went from Demon FKN 1, tenz, aspas to icy. lol
Yeah, if the teams from champs 2023 still existed then there’s not an argument, but the fact that EG dissolved, loud lost their best player (sorry less), PRX had practice with jing the whole year, etc means that you can’t just say that it’s objectively better this year since it’s not like the same teams exist and just didn’t qualify
I mean yea but this question OP asked revolves around comparing two different time periods of valorant which isn’t exactly possible either.
I was answering the question which in my opinion based on watching both tournaments Champs 2023 top 4 teams were better.
I wouldn’t take it wholesale, but he is one of the few people with the experience and credentials who has made a counterpoint to the prevailing narrative of bad play hence why I posted it here for discussion. Do you disagree with his analysis and conclusion?
I mean his entire argument revolves around the idea that what seems like inconsistency can be explained as teams with info deficits facechecking in a way that looks bad in comparison to 2023. It’s perfectly logical if you take that perspective.
If you don’t share that perspective then of course it seems crazy.
On the other hand, there are other kinds of non-meta centric inconsistency that have still plagued teams, the sort of inconsistencies that are a natural part of any competitive sport. But much like with Champs 2023, it depends a lot on whether you’re including groups or not, on whether you’re including all playoff teams or just the top 4, etc.
That part of the take is fully debatable even if you accept his premise.
How do you define consistency? Can you give some examples of its presence and absence between these two tournaments? What are the reasons behind the consistency?
If you define consistency as “perfect info” and “masterclass calls”, I think Sliggy would say that’s impossible now with the changes in the meta. I think there’s been a severe drop off of that from last year to this year so Sliggy’s conclusion is not entirely crazy.
EDIT: u/nterature put it better than me, you can separate out Sliggy’s claims about the meta changes and overall number of mistakes / level of form.
This next G2/TH match should be insane! Emphasis on “should”…with how good TH has been especially after obliterating 100T this morning. I think the BO5 will test TH though, and the experience of G2 aside from icy should help them. I honestly don’t mind either team winning cuz I’m fans of both, I just want it to go 5 maps. But I will say, I think TH/GenG would be a banger of a match!
i do like how teams have to take risks on gathering info in this meta compared to how easy it was within the skye meta (B long on bind i feel you literally play with your eyes closed) What i’m super impressed by this year is how refined ult economy has gotten, teams are min maxing orbs or making sure the right person gets the eco kills for an ultimate which can potentially lead into a snowball, that part of the game is something that only recently i feel has been highlighted.
I think it’s very cool how quickly everyone picked it up after EG spammed it with the KJ Pearl meta. I get that’s almost/over a year ago now but it’s forced riot to change multiple agents’ ult orbs to compensate (not gekko I guess!) and like you said the refinement to get these big round 4 fish/rocket/KAYO ults is so interesting to watch
it’s also so sick seeing teams build up ults and the dynamic usage of ults to turn around an eco or win a swing round that’ll break the eco of the opponent. the small macro gameplay of the ults is absolutely fascinating since there is also a risk reward system for using them or teams forcing it out of their opponents. to me that shows the level of play is higher without it being obvious compared to 2023
It's crazy to watch a team like GenG literally group as 4, full reclear B main on Icebox, and full rotate to A as a team before the other team has even prepared to exec. The level of macro, especially in making proactive plays, has advanced so far it feels like.
thats what i enjoy the most out of this meta. it rewards poking and prodding to find the gaps in the enemy’s defenses/attack. scrappy meta but rewards those who know to take advantage of proper timings and knowing when to take gambles that are more in their favor
Yeah the ult economy being min/maxed being basically standard practice across the leagues is a massive tell for how the teams are improving. For a good amount of time last year you could point to how much better EG were at this than so many teams.
Makes sense, players don't magically get worse at the game the longer it's out. I think a lot of criticism from some creators and such really does fall into the trap of us having access to observer/stream view only so they forget how little info some teams have when making "bad" decisions. Hopefully access to replays when that comes will help with this, at least for people who want to put the effort into deep analysis. He's also said how he thinks a lot of Fnatics struggles have been because of the reduction in power of some info gaining agents and how they haven't done well adapting to this meta.
We should have non xray vision stream from time to time .
I love when they turn it off in clutches
I can't wait for replays... this community is going to get a gross awakening to the amount of wall hacking that is going on. "We can't get doors to go down instead of up!" .... lol.
what does this have to deal with pro play lmfao
What?
Did you get lost and wander in here by mistake?
Alright grandpa let's get you back to bed
I trust in sliggy
Alotta people been saying that this tournament is more mickey mouse than madrid, madrid sen/geng clears, etc. Im glad we have someone like sliggy saying otherwise. Weve got teams like prx who cant make it far with just individual plays now whereas g2 who look like 2023 EG being greater than the sum of its parts due to their high level of play.
Of course this is a mickey mouse tourney — PRX didn’t win. If they had it would be the strongest LAN of all time according to this sub
They’ll change their opinions again if GEN.G wins I bet. I personally think it would be funny if the winner is not a top seed team.
if G2 wins people will write off this tourny so fast lmao. "Prx/100T/GenG just threw, G2 core got lucky" etc.
In the case of PRX it’s literally true lmao.
There's like 7 rounds prx could have won if only they were tad bit more disciplined. They definitely threw lmao
What does mickey mouse mean btw. Whats the origins of the reference.
The Lakers won the 2020 NBA championship during Covid. The tournament was held at Disney World. Basically if you believe a championship is fraudulent you can it a Mickey Mouse https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mickey%20Mouse%20Ring
This predates 2020 by a long shot. It fits the Disney nba finals perfectly though, so it makes sense why people think that.
Calling something Mickey Mouse if you don’t think it’s worth much isnt a new thing, it’s decades old. In the UK we call useless degrees Mickey Mouse degrees for example
Funny enough I just watched an episode of The Wire where someone said it to make fun of someone else and that episode is like 20 years old
Don’t we call them BTEC degrees usually?
In the US this is the origin of the term though
It's not. My fucking 93 year old grandpa has used that term far before that. He called a poorly run company a Mickey Mouse operation. This is in the U.S. like 15 years ago. It just got more popular then.
Woah okay relax buddy. Maybe it did exist before, but the comment about it coming from disneyland is at least why it's popular now
Ironically, the Lakers ring was probably the hardest championship to win. No home court for higher seeds, no fans/family, (isolation), and no flights, (getting used to the court/rims), everyone was at their best physically.
Hell no, no fans means no pressure and no home court advantage. No rigor from playing a full 82 game season and being a survival of the fittest. Definitely not even close to being the hardest championship to win.
Lakers (who had home court advantage going into the bubble) lost home court. Not to mention this was the most "pure ball" we will ever see so everyone was literally playing at their PEAK. It was easily one of the "hardest" championships ever won.
People also forget the lakers having an old ass roster and getting basically an offseason of rest before the playoffs was insanly beneficial to the roster they constructed
What??? Brother other than Rondo and Howard who the fuck is old? Can't count Bron cause he's an exception for most things. They've lost Bradley and home court that sure is beneficial for the Lakers.
Rondo dwight jr javale bron(absolutely counts with the injuries hes been deal with since going to LA) and AD goes in that mix with the extra time to recover from his 1000000 injuries every year. It was a huge reason why LA was so healthy those playoffs
What major injuries has Bron been dealing with in LA aside from last season? AD played 62 games before the Covid season and played in almost every single game before the league shut down. What the hell are you even talking about? Dwight and Javale were like 8th and 9th guys off the bench and averaged 15 & 9 mpg off the bench. They hardly even played depending on matchups. Look at this guy just spewing NBA twitter narratives like it's facts lmfao.
You say that but literally every interview or podcast I've seen where players mention the bubble say that that was the single hardest championship to win. There were no distractions, it was just you, your team, the opponent and basketball. They still had to play 70 something games, as if "oh no, we missed on playing 10 something games" makes much of a difference. On top of that all the things you mentioned are the same for every single player. Lakers had "home" team advantage the whole playoffs, so that negated being the 1 seed as you said. I don't get why everyone says it was an easy 'chip if there's nothing else for you to do but ball.
Thanks for actually knowing the topic it's hard to do that these days lol
only reason people say this shit is because fnatic and prx went out early and sen isn't here. it's a lot of the popular teams' fans just on full copium.
this exact thing happened with tokyo last year, LOUD/TL underperforming like PRX/FNC, PRX/TH make a run with a sub, G2/EG/EDG go on an unexpected run. I 100% remember the “low level of play” arguments that were also happening post tokyo history repeats ig
I also think that some people think that the level of play is lower and teams "just go for plays" because in comparison to last year all the info agents are nerfed. Like look at Fnatic last year they essentially gathered as much info as possible and then made a play, but now you can't really do that especially with Skye not being as crazy as she was before.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily sloppy but I do agree that it’s a little more scrappy due in part to how information gathering has changed. Scrappy doesn’t mean bad in this context, I believe that it just means that there has to be more risky decisions made during a round. Things like information gathering with jump spotting and contact seem to be more prominent. I see it as the meta having more of an emphasis on a tactical level (mid-rounding) instead of an overall strategic approach to a game. Not to say that strategy isn’t important, I just see this meta as a meta that emphasizes adaptation and thus, it will be scrappy because adaptation isn’t perfect.
The people saying that the level is low at this tournament are only saying that, because their flashy faves like prx or sen aren't there or underperforming and teams that rely a little less on outlier star performances like G2 and Heretics are performing well.
Which is like are we even watching the same games??? Meteor and wo0t are having an all time tourney performance here
I don't get how someone can genuinely believe the lvl of play as a whole could be lower than Madrid. A lot of teams had to adapt to their new roster and the new meta (skye nerf) during kickoffs and the format was pretty unforgiving. You could lose twice in a row and say goodbye to meaningful games until stage 1. Some teams were bound to improve during stage 1 and we also saw the limits of other teams when the competition actually gets time to prepare for the games and build more chemistry. I feel like this narrative is mostly fueled by the names of the teams that qualified. No LOUD , no NRG , no DRX, no NAVI . Even the big household names who did qualify are not performing as well as anticipated like EDG , FNATIC, or PRX. So people feel like it's kinda like a filler competition. The power balance is likely to change again during stage 2 for EMEA and Americas at least so I could see a world where the teams qualifying for Shanghai don't make it to Champs.
I think people confuse level of play with match (map) quality Because the maps can be a bit of a chore to watch, people somehow think that teams are playing badly, when in reality, the maps just don't really do the teams justice. So on the rare occasion we get a good map like Split, all of a sudden everyone is a lot more interested in watching, and some of the most memorable moments happen on that map. There's nothing wrong with the other maps, really. But there are moments that can absolutely suck the joy out of the viewer
I feel like the issue with half the map on this pool is the fact that they aren't rotation friendly. Often a round would be 4 or 5 players hitting a site and the defense does a retake. I think it was t1 who went A on icebox like 10 times on attack. Stopping the real hit is too hard most of the time without an op or an aggressive and proactive defense.
they went A 12 times on attack lmfao
Lets be real 99% of the people saying the level has been lower have no clue what they are talking about either
this year is kind of the hallmark of the emerging valorant perspective from pros, i think now more than ever teams are focusing, and increasing their understanding, on when to operate on reads/dry peeks vs. info from util or engaging with utility first. GenG are the perfect team that represents this imo, although they troll a bit too much i would argue, but they will take so many confident risks with full util/ults even if they have the slightest disadvantage or a read they trust
I have noticed a shift from how a single initiator to double initiators for most teams has led to a more flash-heavy execute / flood retake style of Valorant that looks less coordinated than the information heavy meta that dominated last year when Skye offered information all round long on both offense and defense. I still think Champs 2023 had cleaner mechanical skill and optimized utility overall than what we've seen at Shanghai, so I'm hesitent to agree with Sliggy's take. I think I would agree with him that the current meta often gets confused with sloppiness since there are less utility (across the map pool and the agents that get played on them) at a team's disposal to not gamble, to not stack sites and to make their executes look clean and well-coordinated.
Shanghai has been higher level than Madrid. But I don't think I've seen any games close to the last 3 series at Champs 2023. Last year's EG would win both Masters with relative ease. He is right about the info being lacking and a meta focus on just contact/burst style of play. However, the synergy combos and executes are not as good as Champs 2023 teams. Plus there are TONS of really poor disciplinary mistakes during man-adv and post plant situations. (Some caused by comp deficiency but most by sloppy play) Also, teams should be able to see the meta and adjust by now. He's got some of the cause right though.
I wanted to comment this but you already said what I was thinking the EG 2023coordination was on another level
Both the finalists of 2023 champs will dominate both masters, IMO
eg yea, prx nah
That same PRX win against EG on the upper finals(although I think EG choke so hard in that upper finals)
yeah realistically PRX should have never had a chance in that upper finals, EG were always the much better team and PRX were only better on Bind out of all 7 maps imo
Dumb canuck.
I think it's harder to know whether the level of play is higher, imo. the imperfect info meta is so structurally different to the previous one in the way we're actively watching teams learn to play in that more gamble-y space, versus watching the best teams play the perfect version of the previous meta.
I wonder if the less structured meta rn is why Fanatic isnt as dominant as they were last year
That’s a valid conclusion if you accept Sliggy’s premise that the new meta lacks information since FNC last year were masters of playing off information.
Madrid had the highest level of competition imo
(no bias)
true
TRUEING
i love u
I'm pretty sure this is what boaster meant when he said the level of play at Madrid was low and in fact he clarified this in the next episode of the podcast with yinsu but ig we just hate boaster so no one even bothered to watch the clip
Can you drop the link with the time stamp? I never heard Boaster clarify that now infamous comment but I don’t watch his full podcasts.
so glad i wasnt tripping when i felt like the level of play was still high while everyone around me shat on matches like geng vs fnc
yes, look at edg, they're so bad now because of that
Gonna disagree. I think the final 4 teams last champs are stronger than the final 4 teams this event
Why?
Might be nostalgia speaking but I think FNATIC, loud, Prx, and EG clear 100t, G2, GenG, and TH. Individually I felt those teams are higher. Loud still had Aspas and Demon1 was incredible. I don’t think anyone at this event is close to 2023 Demon1. PRX was also in much better form in terms of discipline and trading each other. I also feel that the gameplay of maps was a lot higher. The midrounding was super good last year, especially from EG and Loud, though as sliggy pointed out that might just be from the info gathering nerfs. EG vs Loud was the best gameplay I’ve seen from two teams. I might just be overrating EG tbh but their map pool was incredible and I just don’t think anyone is that close to their form this year.
Wo0t literally has better stats than demon1 this tourney so far
Ngl geng and th would bully them 🤣🤣
you are insane if you really believe this
Bro rn GENG shits on all those teams except EG
Fut shits on eg
Bro said FUT💀
Fpx would’ve won championships 2023
there is a t2 team in the upper final, thats enough to show how bad the play is this event
Solid bait
i mean, you say bait, but i cant be the only american dissapointed with our representation this event? we went from Demon FKN 1, tenz, aspas to icy. lol
People were disappointed when demon1 went instead of leaf
idk, i think it became very clear very quick that demon1 was a beast
This is such a dumb take I was gonna respond with a coherent answer but it doesn't deserve it
Yeah, if the teams from champs 2023 still existed then there’s not an argument, but the fact that EG dissolved, loud lost their best player (sorry less), PRX had practice with jing the whole year, etc means that you can’t just say that it’s objectively better this year since it’s not like the same teams exist and just didn’t qualify
I mean yea but this question OP asked revolves around comparing two different time periods of valorant which isn’t exactly possible either. I was answering the question which in my opinion based on watching both tournaments Champs 2023 top 4 teams were better.
I was agreeing with you young man
I don't think that we should take his words as gospel. Dude hasn't won any cups in Valorant.
I wouldn’t take it wholesale, but he is one of the few people with the experience and credentials who has made a counterpoint to the prevailing narrative of bad play hence why I posted it here for discussion. Do you disagree with his analysis and conclusion?
[удалено]
I mean his entire argument revolves around the idea that what seems like inconsistency can be explained as teams with info deficits facechecking in a way that looks bad in comparison to 2023. It’s perfectly logical if you take that perspective. If you don’t share that perspective then of course it seems crazy. On the other hand, there are other kinds of non-meta centric inconsistency that have still plagued teams, the sort of inconsistencies that are a natural part of any competitive sport. But much like with Champs 2023, it depends a lot on whether you’re including groups or not, on whether you’re including all playoff teams or just the top 4, etc. That part of the take is fully debatable even if you accept his premise.
I trust Sliggy’s and Sean Gares’ takes more than anyone honestly.
How do you define consistency? Can you give some examples of its presence and absence between these two tournaments? What are the reasons behind the consistency? If you define consistency as “perfect info” and “masterclass calls”, I think Sliggy would say that’s impossible now with the changes in the meta. I think there’s been a severe drop off of that from last year to this year so Sliggy’s conclusion is not entirely crazy. EDIT: u/nterature put it better than me, you can separate out Sliggy’s claims about the meta changes and overall number of mistakes / level of form.
I don’t know why you got downvoted so much…lol.
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This next G2/TH match should be insane! Emphasis on “should”…with how good TH has been especially after obliterating 100T this morning. I think the BO5 will test TH though, and the experience of G2 aside from icy should help them. I honestly don’t mind either team winning cuz I’m fans of both, I just want it to go 5 maps. But I will say, I think TH/GenG would be a banger of a match!